Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Tuesday, January 12th, 2010, 00:00 AST

[00:00:01]

m:

a bike could beat a car down

[00:07:03]

Dagmar:

Only because a car has to do like, 12mph or you're in someone's living room.

[00:10:01]

mag0o:

man, games have warped me. i actually pictured the cars wrapping from side to side instead of having to switch back, to get up or down

[00:10:29]

Dagmar:

hehehe

[00:10:42]

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[00:10:44]

Dagmar:

You don't go _up_ it either

[00:10:46]

Dagmar:

It's narrow

[00:11:10]

Dagmar:

Mostly if you're new to San Franciso you get to the top and think "Jesus, when was the last time I had my brakes checked."

[00:11:29]

Dagmar:

It's not twisty just to be decorative, it's like a four-story *drop*

[00:12:20]

m:

40 years ago my friends and I on bicycles, beat a car down Lookout Mountain in Golden, Colorado, which pissed off the young punks, who were older than us. We had to ditch them in town and go up a oneway street the wrong way, jump over a bush and hide behind it with our bikes.

[00:12:59]

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[00:17:33]

m:

I have an Nvidia 7950 GT, the Nvidia site provides a file called: NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64–190.53-pkg2.run, which is a binary file. Is there a corresponding rpm package?

[00:17:48]

wagnerrp:

yes

[00:18:24]

wagnerrp:

but its just going to be some kind of wrapper that pulls and installs that file, adding the necessary entries to the package system

[00:18:26]

Dagmar:

Thankfully, nVidia's licence is such that it's actually possible to package compiled binaries for a distro

[00:18:35]

Dagmar:

...assuming of course you're still using their kernel.

[00:19:16]

m:

I have several files in my local repositopry from MythTV named something like: nvidia-graphics-190.53–44.x86_64.rpm

[00:19:23]

Dagmar:

It's when you're making no assumptions about the kernel that you have to go through the dance of figuring out if the right kernel source is around so their package can compile

[00:19:57]

Dagmar:

m: THta sounds like them. If you query the rpm for it's file list you'll see the kernel module and GLX so's

[00:20:18]

Dagmar:

That would be the x86_64 pakcage tho. Don' install that if you're using 32-bit Fedora

[00:21:23]

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[00:22:27]

m:

I'll use #yum info ****.rpm and see

[00:23:21]

Dagmar:

I think rpm -q --dump package.rpm migh do it as well

[00:23:32]

Dagmar:

Not entirely sure tho. It's been awhile since I've messed with rpm

[00:24:33]

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[00:25:08]

m:

[root@mythdora m]# yum info /etc/yum.repos.d/mythrepo/nvidia-graphics-190.53–44.x86_64.rpm

[00:25:08]

m:

Loaded plugins: fastestmirror, presto, priorities, refresh-packagekit

[00:25:08]

m:

Loading mirror speeds from cached hostfile

[00:25:08]

m:

* fedora: mirrors.tummy.com

[00:25:08]

m:

* livna: rpm.livna.org

[00:25:09]

m:

* rpmfusion-free: mirrors.tummy.com

[00:25:11]

m:

* rpmfusion-free-updates: mirrors.tummy.com

[00:25:13]

m:

* rpmfusion-nonfree: mirrors.tummy.com

[00:25:15]

m:

* rpmfusion-nonfree-updates: mirrors.tummy.com

[00:25:17]

m:

* updates: mirrors.tummy.com

[00:25:19]

m:

Error: No matching Packages to list

[00:25:31]

jams:

m use pastein for that much info

[00:25:36]

m:

used the path to my rpm with no luck

[00:25:41]

Dagmar:

Yes well, let's not flood the channel, shall we?

[00:25:53]

m:

OK

[00:26:00]

Dagmar:

Yum doesn't work like you think it does

[00:26:29]

m:

More appropriate for a linux commands IRC

[00:27:02]

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[00:27:30]

Dagmar:

Ahh... rpm -p package.rpm, so possbly rpm -q --dump -p thatpakcage.rpm

[00:27:56]

Dagmar:

er -qpl

[00:28:04]

Dagmar:

er !@#@! ... -qlp package.rpm

[00:28:25]

Dagmar:

I've no rpms here to test so I'm working from memory and the man page

[00:28:47]

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[00:29:29]

m:

I should restrict this to a linux command help IRC channel, not a MythTV channel

[00:31:22]

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[00:44:58]

m:

quit/Hey, I'll be back both to listen and when I have Myth TV installed

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[01:15:54]

Hilikus:

i have a recording with an end late of 1 minute, theres another recording that starts right after the first one so right now i get a conflict because of that 1 minute. is there a way to fix this? like telling it to ignore end late when theres a recording right away?

[01:16:49]

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[01:16:49]

Gumby:

hi all. I am trying to figure out why I have no audio. I see the following in the logs but I cant figure out where to set permissions... http://pastebin.ca/1747883

[01:21:34]

clever:

Hilikus: that would be soft padding, which is set elsewhere and effects every recording

[01:22:04]

Hilikus:

what do you mean it affects every recording?

[01:22:21]

clever:

there are 2 types of padding

[01:22:40]

clever:

the hard padding is set on a per-rule basis and wont go away to solve conflicts

[01:22:56]

Hilikus:

i dont want a local exception for this recording, i want to tell it to ignore end lates for all recordings if they create a conflict

[01:22:58]

clever:

while the hard-padding is global (all rules) and will be removed if it causes a conflict

[01:23:17]

clever:

both paddings let you start/end recordings early/late

[01:23:44]

Hilikus:

did you mean soft padding the second time?

[01:23:54]

clever:

oops

[01:23:55]

clever:

yeah

[01:24:01]

clever:

its comming up on 2am here

[01:24:05]

Hilikus:

oh ok, that sounds exactly what i want

[01:24:15]

Hilikus:

is that in the FE or BE?

[01:24:46]

clever:

frontend

[01:24:53]

Hilikus:

ok, i'll look for it

[01:24:59]

Hilikus:

thanks a lot clever

[01:26:00]

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[01:29:02]

Dagmar:

To make it a wee bit simpler--maybe--the more narrowly scoped the padding rule is, the more likely it's going to override other padding rules.

[01:30:00]

Hilikus:

i cant find the setting

[01:30:07]

clever:

its well hidden

[01:32:07]

Hilikus:

do you remember where? it would only make sense in recording profiles, but its not there. i also looked in general and playback options

[01:32:33]

Hilikus:

maybe i should check the backend

[01:32:55]

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[01:32:56]

clever:

Hilikus: setup->setup->tv settings->general, advanced page

[01:32:57]

clever:

Hilikus: setup->setup->tv settings->general, advanced page

[01:34:48]

Hilikus:

i dont see anything there about padding. just the global "past end" rules

[01:34:57]

clever:

yeah, thats it

[01:35:14]

clever:

thats the soft padding

[01:37:04]

Hilikus:

mm so there's no soft padding in individual shows. i understand now what you said before

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[01:42:38]

xaxes:

hey there, is it possible to forbid "cutting" two recordings that follow eachother into two pieces?

[01:43:17]

xaxes:

mythtv doesnt cut them very well, so one of the recording isnt complete

[01:43:41]

wagnerrp:

digital tuner?

[01:44:01]

xaxes:

technisat skystar 2

[01:44:16]

wagnerrp:

add padding on both, and let multirec take care of things

[01:44:39]

wagnerrp:

mythtv will just record the overlap twice, using two virtual tuners

[01:46:03]

xaxes:

wagnerrp: thanks, Ill look for this.. but I think I have problems by using only one rule for this, right? both episodes are from the same rule

[01:46:25]

wagnerrp:

does the guide data show it as two parts?

[01:46:29]

xaxes:

yes

[01:46:46]

wagnerrp:

then mythtv sees it as two independent shows, and will record each individually

[01:47:13]

xaxes:

okay, gonna look for padding-settings and multirec

[01:50:06]

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[01:50:11]

xaxes:

wagnerrp: Im using mythweb to setup this. am I right to set "Start early:" and "end late" for this rule to get "padding", or did you mean another option?

[01:50:20]

sphery:

padding settings are in the recording rule

[01:50:25]

wagnerrp:

thats the one

[01:50:31]

xaxes:

okay, thanks :)

[01:50:50]

sphery:

multirec is enabling multiple "virtual tuners" in mythtv-setup on a digital capture card

[01:51:58]

xaxes:

is multirec global or rule-dependent?

[01:52:10]

sphery:

global for a capture card

[01:52:21]

sphery:

digital cards only

[01:52:33]

sphery:

and only works with channels on the same multiplex (including the same channel)

[01:52:41]

xaxes:

yes :)

[01:52:48]

xaxes:

gonna look for*

[01:53:28]

sphery:

enable multiple tuners in mythtv-setup

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[01:57:42]

xaxes:

sphery: the "Max recordings" greater 1 should set multirec, right?

[01:58:14]

sphery:

sounds right

[01:58:34]

xaxes:

okay.. wagnerrp sphery thanks for your help :)

[01:58:41]

sphery:

I don't remember the exact words/location

[01:59:06]

xaxes:

see ya

[01:59:07]

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[01:59:13]

sphery:

you may also want to delete your capture cards as at http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/264034#264034

[01:59:18]

sphery:

... to get things in the right order

[01:59:22]

sphery:

but whatever

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[02:41:38]

aputerboy:

I just added my first non localhost frontend and got the error message "Access denied for user 'mythtv'@'mymachine' (using password: YES)

[02:42:16]

aputerboy:

Do I need to change permissions or add a new user 'mythtv'@'mymachine' to my mythconverg database

[02:42:32]

aputerboy:

or do I need to do something to open up mysql to outside connections?

[02:42:33]

wagnerrp:

add a new user, yes

[02:42:56]

wagnerrp:

access denied means youre myqsl server is accessible, and refusing access to those credentials

[02:43:02]

wagnerrp:

likely because your current grant is for 'localhost'

[02:43:18]

aputerboy:

I did a lot of google searching and didn't see this documented and I would have thought this would affect many if not most users

[02:43:45]

crankharder:

anyone know how to make sniperpad's build of MFE go fullscreen on osx?

[02:43:47]

wagnerrp:

grant all on mythconverg.* to 'mythtv'@'mymachine' identified by 'mypassword';

[02:44:05]

aputerboy:

ahhh so in general to people grant to 'mythtv' (in general) but mine is more restrictive in only being granted to 'localhost'

[02:44:43]

wagnerrp:

you *can* grant to all hosts '%'

[02:44:46]

wagnerrp:

but you really shouldnt

[02:45:07]

wagnerrp:

are you jeffrey kosowsky?

[02:45:12]

aputerboy:

ok – but if this isn't well-documented, why does the default work for others but not for me

[02:45:22]

aputerboy:

yup – why?

[02:45:33]

wagnerrp:

reading mailing list

[02:45:52]

aputerboy:

yeah – it was late so I decide to try IRC – never used it before to tell the truth

[02:46:49]

aputerboy:

So does the default install typically to all hosts? since again I don't see documentation about having to set it for a specific machine

[02:47:04]

wagnerrp:

http://www.mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-6.html#modify_perm_mysql

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[02:47:18]

wagnerrp:

all there in the docs

[02:48:05]

aputerboy:

Thanks – that seems to explain it – I was looking on the Wikki and using google – but obviously I missed something obvious

[02:48:49]

wagnerrp:

it trips up a lot of people

[02:48:57]

wagnerrp:

at least a couple every week in here asking about that

[02:50:06]

aputerboy:

does this add a new user or is it the same user 'mythtv' but now allowed access from the network?

[02:50:52]

wagnerrp:

its a new line in a table

[02:51:01]

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[02:51:02]

aputerboy:

and one final question, if I want to "reverse" this later, do I just use "deny all" instead of "grant all"? (whenever I open up a hole, I like to know how to close it)

[02:51:24]

aputerboy:

or is there a special delete command to delete that line of the table

[02:51:39]

wagnerrp:

to be honest, i dont know the 'proper' way to do it

[02:51:48]

wagnerrp:

ive just delete the line from the database directly

[02:52:11]

wagnerrp:

im sure theres plenty of information online on how to do it

[02:52:25]

aputerboy:

ok – i will look – thanks for the help

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[03:01:46]

newbie004:

hi I've got a haughpaugh 1950, mythtvsetup is reporting Failed to probe, dmesg reports a firmware error (wrong size) and suggest I power cycle

[03:01:55]

newbie004:

I'm on a 64 bit machine

[03:01:59]

newbie004:

any ideas?

[03:02:19]

wagnerrp:

you have a firmware mismatch with your driver revision

[03:02:31]

wagnerrp:

make sure you have the correct firmare that is supposed to go with your drivers

[03:04:51]

newbie004:

I used a perl script to extract the firmware, originally I pointed it at the drivers directory, the next time around at the 64bit directory.. the 64bit time around it said something along the lines of not finding drivers it expected to find

[03:05:04]

newbie004:

the 32 bit time around it found 4 files, 64 it found only 1

[03:05:34]

wagnerrp:

youre probably better off in #linuxtv

[03:05:34]

newbie004:

I'm worried the perl script isn't working for me

[03:05:41]

newbie004:

ah thanks

[03:05:58]

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[03:06:00]

wagnerrp:

i know thats one of the V4L-DVB dev's recommended choice for a USB tuner

[03:06:02]

newbie004:

I'll try the extract again and see if I can get a better understanding of what's going on

[03:06:12]

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[03:06:20]

wagnerrp:

so i assume he would know what you need to do

[03:07:16]

newbie004:

thank you

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[03:39:30]

banyan:

now, I probably just need somebody to remind me about something here, but my mythfrontend has decided to stop making noise. no sound output from recordings... or from mplayer, but if I play from rhythmbox I get sound.

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[03:40:37]

banyan:

I can't make any sense of the settings any longer as somebody has taken it upon themselves to remove all identification from the driver / daemon, so I don't even know if it's alsa or pulse or what which doesn't help.

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[03:45:18]

banyan:

by the last, I mean that the thing I'm changing the settings of, the thing that opens up under the system menu under preferences / sound, has no identification.

[03:46:26]

banyan:

Just "Sound Preferences", lol. so how do I go about diagnosing this so I can get some audio back in mythfrontend?

[03:52:22]

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[03:53:51]

aputerboy:

FYI according to the mysql manpages the way to completely remove a user is to use the query: DROP USER user;

[03:54:20]

aputerboy:

If you just want to revoke privileges to a specific database use: REVOKE ALL PRIVILEGS ON database.* FROM user

[03:55:06]

aputerboy:

where 'user' is the same as 'user@%' but different from 'user'@'host'

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[04:03:43]

aputerboy:

QUESTION: I just tried setting the security pin in the backend setup BUT it doesn't seem to have any effect — i.e. I can still start and use the frontend without any password (note I restarted mythbackend too just in case)

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aputerboy:

is everybody sleeping?

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[04:29:59]

user_:

good morning all people

[04:30:13]

user_:

i got one error when i try to do hg clone for my card

[04:30:15]

user_:

abort: requirement '<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ANSI_X3.4–1968"?>' not supported!

[04:30:20]

user_:

dunno what i need

[04:30:26]

sphery:

aputerboy: The security pin is saved in a local configuration file--there is no way to get mythfrontend to prompt for a password on startup.

[04:31:33]

sphery:

aputerboy: the security pin is only designed to prevent random network residents from sending requests to mythbackend for the database hostname/username/password

[04:32:47]

aputerboy:

So does that mean that I should set it to some really weird random number and don't even bother remembering it or writing it down?

[04:35:49]

sphery:

well, you'll need it for all your hosts

[04:36:11]

sphery:

just make sure you can find it--probably in $HOME/.mythtv/config.xml --and you don't have to write it down elsewhere

[04:36:27]

aputerboy:

but only for the backends – right? since no place to enter it in the frontends

[04:36:30]

sphery:

(where that's the HOME of the user running the myth app--frontend/backend/whatever)

[04:37:04]

sphery:

frontends need it, too--they ask on startup for the info

[04:37:12]

sphery:

or tell you to copy a config.xml from a backend

[04:37:23]

aputerboy:

but that's my question – it is NOT asking me

[04:37:35]

aputerboy:

i set the password in mythtv-setup, restarted mythbackend

[04:37:44]

clever:

aputerboy: its for the upnp stuff, i just set the db/name/pw directly

[04:37:55]

aputerboy:

but i have no problem starting the frontend on another machine

[04:38:20]

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[04:38:26]

loki_666:

hi

[04:38:55]

loki_666:

since i activated the EIT on my dvb-c i get alot of PES Packet CRC error on StreamID=0x70

[04:38:58]

loki_666:

any idea?

[04:41:16]

sphery:

loki_666: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/5013

[04:41:37]

sphery:

aputerboy: if it's not preventing your frontend from connecting, all is good

[04:42:30]

aputerboy:

i don't get it – then where is this data stored on the frontend machine since it never asked for it — so what type of security can it be?

[04:42:31]

loki_666:

no all seems to works

[04:42:51]

aputerboy:

or does it just use the sql password and ignore the security pin

[04:44:50]

sphery:

aputerboy: it's not real security

[04:45:15]

sphery:

it's just a cookie that the client must present or the backend refuses to give it db hostname/username/password

[04:45:30]

sphery:

myth has no security mechanisms--patches appreciated

[04:45:50]

clever:

anybody with tcpdump can probly sniff that pin number

[04:45:56]

sphery:

yep

[04:45:56]

clever:

or the username/pw

[04:46:08]

clever:

probly even the user/pw from every sql connection

[04:46:17]

sphery:

not to mention anyone with access to config.xml or mysql.txt

[04:46:20]

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[04:46:29]

clever:

and even if you secure those, the mythtv proto and telnet proto aint secure either

[04:46:57]

clever:

this is why you plan out your LAN with a 2nd DMZ for the friends :P

[04:47:39]

clever:

would be fairly simple to do with my layout

[04:47:53]

clever:

add a 2nd NIC to the router and configure a 3rd Virtual LAN inside the switch

[04:50:45]

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Memphis is now known as Memphis{away}

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[05:05:22]

loki_666:

does multirec work with CAM?

[05:05:49]

loki_666:

my CAM should be able to descramble 2 stream

[05:06:12]

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[05:06:33]

aputerboy:

ok this is scarey – i stopped & started transcoding on a file a couple of times and now I have a record in my "Watch Recordings" menu but the file has DISAPPEARED

[05:06:55]

aputerboy:

says "Recording Unavailable"

[05:07:26]

aputerboy:

I'm using 0.22-fixes – but also just started using a Windows frontend

[05:07:58]

aputerboy:

has anybody else had lost files? (I had just watched it, then clipped commercials and then transcoded)

[05:08:25]

aputerboy:

I did crash mythfrontend a couple of times and restarted backend but no crashes to backend or the server

[05:10:53]

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[05:11:22]

aputerboy:

i started and stopped transcoding a couple of times from two different frontends and from mythweb

[05:11:50]

BeowulfBC:

Thanks everyone for the help I am about 90% of the way to a really good MythTV setup

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[05:13:16]

aputerboy:

actually the status says it completed transcoding a couple of hours ago – but file is definitely missing

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justinh:

rofl "I tried randomly

[06:15:56]

justinh:

pressing keys but that started to mess me up"

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[06:59:07]

paras:

i get this message during backend startup: UPnpMedia: BuildMediaMap – no VideoStartupDir set, skipping scan. Where can i set the videostartupdir for upnp ?

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[07:37:20]

ivor:

have you got mythvideo installed?

[07:43:25]

paras:

me ?

[07:44:04]

paras:

no i haven't, but do i have to install it on the backend machine or on the frontend machine ?

[07:44:55]

ivor:

its just a warning then. if you havent got mythvideo installed then you wont have a VideoStartupDir and so there are no videos to scan.

[07:46:37]

paras:

ok

[07:46:39]

paras:

thx

[07:47:27]

justinh:

1138

[07:48:16]

paras:

:)

[07:48:25]

ivor:

justinh: got that in my "to watch" pile at the moment. need a quiet evening alone.

[07:49:00]

ivor:

used my last "free" evening for Watchmen.

[07:49:04]

justinh:

it's on my list too

[07:49:23]

justinh:

unlike some more recent films I've mentioned before ;-)

[07:49:38]

ivor:

havent you seen avatar yet!!! etc. :)

[07:49:49]

justinh:

what's avatar? ;-)

[07:50:15]

ivor:

not sure. something about 7 foot flying smurfs. I think.

[07:50:20]

justinh:

lol

[07:55:13]

aputerboy:

justinh – i'm glad you liked my line about randomly pressing keys

[07:55:42]

aputerboy:

(i assume you are talking about my post on the mailing list)

[07:56:08]

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[07:56:26]

justinh:

I only hope you're never in a nuclear control room

[07:56:47]

antgel:

might be a little bit OT – my parents have some old VHS tapes which they want to digitize – can myth help with this, and if so what hardware do they need? their VHS player has composite and rgb scart out, maybe s-video as well

[07:56:54]

justinh:

antgel: no

[07:57:32]

justinh:

antgel: best way is either rip dvds from a dvd recorder, transfer to digital using a camcorder (either via tape or direct with firewire passthrough of converted analogue)

[07:57:32]

antgel:

so it's basically a case of ignore myth for this task, just find some video capture software? you know of any suitable hardware interfaces?

[07:58:20]

justinh:

I wasted a good couple of weeks trying to get lossless-ish video capture working with a framegrabber

[07:58:35]

justinh:

found it almost impossible to get audio in sync

[07:58:51]

antgel:

framegrabber = the hardware that connects the video in to the pc?

[07:59:09]

justinh:

a tuner card with video input & no onboard hardware encoder

[07:59:53]

justinh:

if you have a PVR type tuner card you can play video into it & just cat the video device to an mpeg2 file directly. no messing

[08:00:05]

justinh:

e.g. pvr150 et al

[08:00:21]

justinh:

I can strongly recommend the camcorder method

[08:00:40]

justinh:

even quite cheap DV camcorders can do analogue input & output it over firewire directly :)

[08:00:58]

justinh:

capture the firewire, turn to DVD or whatever. Badabing :-)

[08:01:08]

antgel:

but DV cams are just still way too expensive for this application

[08:01:25]

justinh:

you don't know anybody with one?

[08:01:43]

justinh:

likewise DVD recording :-)

[08:02:28]

justinh:

chances are the camcorder/dvd recorder method will be far superior to any crappy PC card capture anyway

[08:03:22]

justinh:

oh, but if these VHS tapes are commercial tapes..you won't be able to use either method :D

[08:03:31]

ivor:

cough.

[08:03:35]

justinh:

unless they don't happen to have macrovision protection

[08:03:59]

justinh:

but in reality they should BUY DVD replacements anyway. Tigh asses

[08:04:09]

antgel:

probably not. so given that i'm going to ignore most of your presumably excellent advice, what's the cheapest pci card that has video / audio in? my dvb-t and dvb-s tuners don't appear to have that option ;)

[08:04:18]

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[08:04:24]

antgel:

justinh: mostly for dull family videos

[08:04:32]

justinh:

you want a good quality copy so ask for the CHEAPEST?

[08:04:45]

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[08:04:52]

antgel:

:D

[08:04:53]

justinh:

try & get a PVR150 on ebay

[08:05:16]

justinh:

then you don't even need include myth in the equation because believe me doing it with myth is gonna be messy

[08:05:17]

paras:

how can i set mythtv to auto-remove commercials while transcoding ?

[08:05:27]

justinh:

paras: you really don't wanna do that

[08:05:41]

justinh:

not unless you manually check every cutpoint yourself first

[08:05:47]

justinh:

better to avoid disappointment

[08:06:25]

paras:

so it is not possible at all ? ok then, just wanted to know

[08:06:36]

antgel:

justinh: digression – does your commercial detection work? mine never has, always assumed it was because .uk commercials are different to .us

[08:06:42]

justinh:

no it IS possible just not something I recommend

[08:07:17]

justinh:

cos if it messes up for some reason & you miss a vital part of the recording...ooooo nasty

[08:07:30]

ivor:

if you're prepared to spend the time tweaking you might get decent results with a USB capture dongle that takes S-Video in. after all the original vhs isn't going to be stunning resolution. capture with low compression then spend your time tweaking compression, filters, deinterlace, despeckle etc until you're happy with the qualtiy.

[08:07:53]

paras:

i'd like to check it out, where do i configure it ?

[08:07:54]

justinh:

antgel: all kinds of reasons,mainly that the detection methods look for patterns not prevalent in UK broadcasting

[08:08:03]

justinh:

paras: see the wiki

[08:08:31]

justinh:

antgel: when I still bothered with Sky One I found commflagging worked brilliantly there

[08:08:49]

justinh:

reason was the logo detection latched onto their DOG being removed during ad breaks :-)

[08:08:57]

justinh:

most freeview channels keep the DOG

[08:09:24]

justinh:

myth likes fades to black too..not something we get much of (if at all) in our breaks

[08:09:45]

ivor:

antgel: e.g. a cheap usb capture dongle. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Easycap-USB-Video-TV-DV . . . em3358ab0ba8

[08:10:04]

justinh:

the detector also tries to look for rapid cuts – maybe too rapid for UK broadcasting rules pertaining to ads

[08:10:35]

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[08:10:49]

justinh:

ivor: unless it's coming in as mjpeg I wouldn't trust one of those as far as I could throw it :-)

[08:11:16]

justinh:

they might very well be mjpeg though, which is pretty much what DV is

[08:11:26]

ivor:

justinh: only gave that one as an example because I was fixing the driver for the four input version and managed to get pretty good video out of it.

[08:12:07]

justinh:

a fiver?! Hahaha

[08:12:08]

ivor:

its a frame grabber, so worth considering if you want to go the option of capturing yourself at full frame rate, then post processing

[08:12:27]

ivor:

exactly. cheap. it doesn't do anything clever.

[08:12:28]

justinh:

they get uncompressed video over USB?

[08:13:05]

ivor:

usb2

[08:13:12]

ivor:

pal res.

[08:13:33]

ivor:

just pointing it out. :)

[08:14:11]

justinh:

720x576x32x25 is over 300 Mbits

[08:14:24]

justinh:

assuming 32 bit colourspace

[08:14:33]

antgel:

ivor: thanks, that is very interesting. although time is of the essence, not sure how much time i have to despeckle etc yadda yadda

[08:14:50]

antgel:

just want to plug it in, type some command, press play and capture!

[08:14:54]

justinh:

I'm still looking for automagical sparklies correction

[08:15:06]

justinh:

aka dropout noise reduction stuff

[08:15:11]

ivor:

antgel: well if you don't want to do it properly. :)

[08:15:37]

ivor:

just saying if I was digitizing home movies Id spend my time in post-production. :)

[08:15:55]

justinh:

yeah I re-did a couple of bits of my old college videos

[08:16:11]

justinh:

parts ruined by dropouts on the original tape

[08:17:32]

ivor:

justinh: yeah I forget the exact details its been months since I played with it, but if I recall there was some sort of lossles encoding and no it wasnt 32 bit. anyways. it was certainly producing captured video at a quality equal to what I was feeding into it.

[08:18:01]

justinh:

think I'll get me a couple just to play with

[08:18:04]

antgel:

well, i'd /like/ to, but they rarely get watched, and i expect that this is the sort of topic on which there is much to learn, then you can tweak and tweak, and i simply just don't have the time

[08:18:21]

antgel:

and i perhaps naively don't see how crappy vhs can be made much better, GIGO and all that

[08:18:29]

ivor:

justinh: I just couldnt resist picking one up to play with at that price.

[08:18:34]

justinh:

antgel: you'd be surprised

[08:18:44]

ivor:

^ what he said.

[08:18:49]

** justinh goes for lunchies **

[08:20:07]

antgel:

ivor: what software did you use for the task?

[08:20:29]

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[08:23:45]

paras:

when i want to install mythweb, do i have to install it on the backend machine or the frontend machine ?

[08:25:36]

antgel:

paras: no doubt you've read 4.1 of the mythweb install instructions

[08:29:02]

ivor:

antgel: lots of tips – http://arstechnica.com/old/content/2003/07/cleaning.ars

[08:29:32]

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[08:29:34]

gocsp:

hello

[08:29:48]

gocsp:

its possible to download metadata for a complete season?

[08:31:54]

antgel:

ivor: ta

[08:32:52]

ivor:

antgel: but as justinh said... if you just want to "get it done" quickly look for a hardware encoding card such as a 150 and just pump them through that.

[08:34:43]

antgel:

hmm. it would appear that i know so little about this topic – the USB device ^^ doesn't encode?

[08:35:59]

ivor:

correct. you said cheap. I give you CHEAP. :)

[08:37:11]

antgel:

so if it doesn't encode, what does it output to the PC?

[08:37:21]

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[08:39:01]

antgel:

am i thick? (rhetorical)

[08:39:15]

ivor:

it does next to nothing, its one end of the scale a (very) basic frame grabber. you have to do the heavy lifting and generate video using whatever tools you have to hand. at the other end of the scale you have an encoding capture card that gives you a video stream.

[08:39:42]

ivor:

just depends what you want to do/achieve.

[08:40:24]

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[08:44:24]

antgel:

so, it outputs some raw format, which is then converted to .mpg or whatever by other tools? sounds way too complicated. wish i hadn't just bought one :D

[08:44:40]

antgel:

anyone want to buy a usb framegrabber? :P

[08:45:48]

ivor:

:P

[08:49:54]

Dibblah:

If it's USB, it's fairly unlikely that it's outputting raw frames.

[08:50:33]

antgel:

at that price, i can plug it in and see what happens (or not)

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[08:57:39]

** ivor regrets mentioning it now. :) **

[09:15:37]

antgel:

\o/

[09:17:59]

clever:

ivor: generaly, a framegrabber is meant to DMA the data right into video ram

[09:18:13]

clever:

to watch tv in 'real time' with practicaly zero cpu usage

[09:18:31]

patdk-wk:

hmm, raw frames are possible over usb, 147mbit out of 480mbit

[09:18:50]

patdk-wk:

640x480x16bitx29.97

[09:19:32]

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[09:19:38]

patdk-wk:

though, I would say usb only has 300mbit of usable bandwidth

[09:21:03]

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[09:21:28]

ivor:

Dibblah: haven't got the code to hand. if I recall rightly it was just dumping out flat NV12 images.

[09:21:47]

ivor:

[09:24:36]

ivor:

clever: term framegrabber use to refer to a device simply grab frames: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_grabber as opposed to a "video capture" card.

[09:25:24]

justinh:

4:2:0 sampling is more than adequate for VHS capture.. or indeed any PAL/NTSC :)

[09:25:59]

ivor:

justinh: hence I think one of my very first comments... I was impressed with the quality of image at the price. :)

[09:26:36]

ivor:

and for me "worth getting just to play with" :)

[09:27:10]

ivor:

although I admit I did have to write the driver to support it.

[09:27:20]

justinh:

which chip does it use?

[09:27:26]

ivor:

stk1160

[09:27:40]

justinh:

heh never heard of it

[09:28:03]

justinh:

Syntek. Bleugh

[09:28:16]

ivor:

[09:28:22]

justinh:

never heard of them either but they just *sound* bleugh

[09:28:43]

ivor:

so... mythtv.

[09:29:17]

justinh:

wossat then?

[09:29:46]

ivor:

a cunning almost imperceptable attempt to reattach channel to topic.

[09:30:17]

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[09:30:33]

clever:

ivor: maybe you could mod the driver to work in mythtv

[09:31:58]

ivor:

or I could stab myself with a pencil.

[09:32:15]

clever:

that might be more fun

[09:32:59]

** justinh wonders how many cameras zoneminder could crunch with only a 2000XP CPU **

[09:33:48]

clever:

http://www.fh-friedberg.de/fachbereiche/e2/te . . . beginnzi.htm

[09:34:01]

clever:

damn, i have tabs open in firefox from months ago

[09:34:15]

clever:

this is back when i was working on a multirec like patch for a pvr150

[09:35:04]

ivor:

justinh: On an XP1800, six cameras at CIF 5fps. 25% cpu.

[09:35:36]

justinh:

that 5fps per camera?

[09:36:06]

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[09:36:58]

ivor:

yeah. just playing around with it at the moment.

[09:37:23]

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[09:40:37]

ivor:

justinh: but I'll use a faster machine and higher rate/res next. just happened to have an old motherboard lying around.... and it was either that one or one of the VIAs! :)

[09:41:58]

justinh:

heh

[09:42:51]

justinh:

somehow I don't think a C3 chip would make a very good CCTV cruncher ;-)

[09:49:14]

justinh:

gah, this stupid blimmin system. it has a bootloader in flash, which then loads another loader, which then runs & loads the main app

[09:49:24]

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[09:49:40]

justinh:

once the main app is loaded the java web apps take over :-\

[09:52:08]

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[09:53:39]

justinh:

takes this particular CCTV system about 4 minutes to fully boot

[09:54:25]

paras:

why can't i switch teletext on ? is my videocard (hauppauge wintv 34xxx) too old ?

[09:55:40]

justinh:

weren't you saying last night how you've seen it working in other apps?

[09:56:31]

paras:

me ? yes

[09:56:47]

paras:

but i guess the apps were not accessing it through zvbi library

[09:56:52]

justinh:

if it works in other apps maybe you've done something wrong with mythtv config

[09:57:20]

justinh:

or maybe there's a bug in teletext handling in 0.22

[09:57:39]

justinh:

I dunno, I've never cared for teletext & now the UK doesn't have any :D

[09:57:49]

paras:

the only 2 things you can set concerning videotext/vbi are in mythtv-setup, the vbi device and the videotext standard, which i set correctly

[09:58:09]

paras:

mplayer doesn't show teletext, too

[09:58:27]

paras:

i really dont know where to look for help anymore

[09:58:43]

justinh:

is it life or death important?

[09:58:59]

justinh:

I mean can you make do without it?

[09:59:34]

paras:

sure

[10:00:15]

justinh:

MHEG stuff is pretty neat. I'll never miss VBI TT :)

[10:01:17]

patdk-wk:

I always hated vbitt

[10:01:36]

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[10:01:50]

trumee:

guys, anybody using mythbrowser?

[10:02:31]

justinh:

probably. what's up?

[10:02:38]

trumee:

I went to gmail.com in mythbrowser. The textbox does not accept letter 'r'.

[10:03:00]

justinh:

lol

[10:03:18]

trumee:

also, the text box is dark blue and any text is not very clear.

[10:03:34]

justinh:

that's set by the theme you're using

[10:03:44]

justinh:

least in 0.22 it is

[10:03:48]

trumee:

since the text is in black colour (over blue colour background)

[10:04:13]

justinh:

better than black on black though eh

[10:05:16]

trumee:

ok, i changed the theme. the colour is better. but it doesnt accept the letter 'r'?

[10:05:24]

trumee:

also 'q' doesnt work either

[10:05:47]

justinh:

you messed with xmodmap by any chance?

[10:06:04]

trumee:

no, i did not

[10:06:11]

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[10:06:11]

justinh:

or otherwise bollocked about with X keyboard mapping to make your remote work?

[10:06:30]

patdk-wk:

or does the r and q just not work on that keyboard

[10:06:32]

trumee:

no.

[10:06:48]

trumee:

patdk-wk: they work fine.

[10:07:22]

trumee:

patdk-wk: it is just inside mythbrowser that r/q stop working

[10:08:19]

trumee:

q is working as a Tab inside mythbrowser.

[10:09:17]

justinh:

maybe your keybindings are screwed somehow

[10:09:37]

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[10:10:52]

trumee:

i tried another FE. 'q' is working on another system as well

[10:11:11]

trumee:

justinh: any way i can list the keys?

[10:11:31]

justinh:

select * from keybindings where context="Browser";

[10:12:03]

justinh:

or look in mythcontrols on that frontend

[10:12:26]

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[10:13:35]

trumee:

justinh: aha!, R is set as HistoryBack. is this a default in mythbrowser?

[10:14:11]

trumee:

and 'Q' is set as PreviousLink.

[10:20:08]

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[10:25:55]

justinh:

I dunno. how many hostnames does it list when you do that? ;-)

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[10:29:20]

justinh:

http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/7363

[10:30:21]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v j-rod

[10:30:41]

trumee:

justinh: so it is a bug.

[10:31:06]

justinh:

might not be

[10:32:23]

trumee:

justinh: should i remove keysbindings from mythbrowser then?

[10:33:00]

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[10:40:04]

trumee:

is it possible to print in mythbrowser

[10:40:22]

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[10:41:06]

justinh:

what does the manual say? LOL

[10:43:19]

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[10:43:31]

trumee:

justinh: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MythBrowser doesnt mention print

[10:43:52]

justinh:

there you go then

[10:44:11]

justinh:

wonder how many televisions have printers situated nearby anyway

[10:44:38]

[Peter]:

network printer? :)

[10:44:42]

justinh:

the whole *point* of a cut-down browser for a tv based app is that it's *cut* *down*

[10:44:44]

[Peter]:

pretty common these days

[10:45:04]

justinh:

if you want a full-blown browsing app, USE ONE

[10:45:48]

trumee:

well. the FE is in the living room is the only computer in the house. i can hide a printer in the closet and use it when necessary.

[10:46:05]

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[10:46:12]

justinh:

how can it be the only computer in the house? You can't just have one frontend

[10:46:58]

justinh:

unless you mean it's a complete myth system in one box

[10:47:05]

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[10:47:56]

justinh:

sigh. so bring printing to mythbrowser, what next? Mythtv becomes a distro in itself eventually?

[10:48:50]

mag0o:

you mean its not? :)

[10:49:36]

justinh:

I dunno, if some users had their own way it'll get everything *and* the bloody kitchen sink

[10:49:51]

justinh:

they seem to want the moon on a frickin stick

[10:50:38]

Essobi:

WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[10:51:05]

justinh:

not to mention a 3D system you need to wear stupid goggles to use :D

[10:53:58]

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[10:55:04]

justinh:

EUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGH

[10:58:52]

justinh:

whoops. some muppet on the mythtvtalk forum asking for users to swap recordings with him. Shopped to 'the man'

[11:00:48]

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[11:01:37]

mag0o:

haha, you show me yours and i'll show you mine?

[11:04:54]

justinh:

something like that. wants to share educational programming

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[11:34:34]

hackman:

Is there no scheduling option for "first run only" (skip reruns) ?

[11:34:38]

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[11:37:57]

justinh:

yeah but it only works if your guide data supports it

[11:39:34]

jams:

justinh- I thought you gave up on mythtvtalk. burned your bridges , destroyed your login & etc

[11:41:00]

justinh:

like here I just can't resist going back

[11:41:10]

justinh:

they're so helpless there :)

[11:41:55]

jams:

yeah that forum just couldn't hold my attention

[11:42:03]

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syamajala:

hmm

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[11:56:35]

syamajala:

if i run mythfrontend on my backend, sound works

[11:56:47]

syamajala:

but it doesn't work on my other frontends

[11:57:06]

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[11:58:21]

syamajala:

it used to work

[11:59:34]

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[11:59:34]

Mode for #mythtv-users by irc.freenode.net : +v GreyFoxx

[12:02:06]

jams:

hi GreyFoxx !

[12:02:26]

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[12:02:45]

justinh:

thank gawd for that. Didn't need like getting my information press out

[12:04:22]

justinh:

ooo. my net worth is almost two grand & it's not even pay day

[12:04:58]

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[12:05:15]

loki_666:

does mythtv renew DVB CAM access rights?

[12:05:47]

justinh:

you don't half ask some tough questions, you

[12:06:14]

justinh:

I think you might have to wait a while for an answer to that one

[12:07:05]

justinh:

not knowing what the code does I'd assume it negotiates for every recording instance

[12:07:08]

anykey_:

loki_666: yes it does

[12:07:28]

loki_666:

anykey_, ok

[12:07:46]

aputerboy:

I messed up my mythconverg database so I went back to my last good backup from mythtv 0.21. When I ran mythtv-setup with that older database restored, I got the error "Couldn't upgrade database to new schema"

[12:07:54]

loki_666:

other question; i'm getting epg through eit, but for only 2 days in advance

[12:08:14]

loki_666:

is there a way to tell the box to wakeup fo an hour every night?

[12:08:16]

aputerboy:

On the GUI the option to exit/upgrade flashed up briefly and disappeared leaving the above error on my terminal

[12:08:20]

justinh:

loki_666: possibly all your provider gives out

[12:08:48]

justinh:

aputerboy: something tells me something went wrong when you restored the old database

[12:09:00]

justinh:

if you just did a flat import of the old sql that was probably it

[12:09:17]

aputerboy:

Note to restore the old version I tried both a manual "mysql -u root -p mythconverg < backup.sql"

[12:09:22]

justinh:

better if you drop the database & restore the oldone completely

[12:09:31]

aputerboy:

i tried that

[12:09:53]

justinh:

as in "drop database mythconverg" ?

[12:09:54]

aputerboy:

I also tried mythconverg_restore.pl and it said restore was successful

[12:10:09]

aputerboy:

yes as in drop database mythconverg

[12:10:39]

justinh:

so this backup.. when exactly was it taken?

[12:10:44]

justinh:

before you upgraded?

[12:10:45]

aputerboy:

followed by create database mythconverg

[12:11:05]

justinh:

and how on Earth did the database get screwed up anyway?

[12:11:10]

aputerboy:

the backup was taken in mid december

[12:11:41]

aputerboy:

got screwed up because I did a dumbass thing like restoring program data from myth-021 version onto settings data of a 022 version

[12:11:43]

justinh:

more random button stabbing? :D

[12:11:44]

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[12:12:01]

justinh:

whoops

[12:12:02]

aputerboy:

more like more random mysql playing around before i knew what i was doing

[12:12:39]

aputerboy:

but I can fix that if I can get my old db to restore since then I can upgrade the tables and import them

[12:12:44]

jams:

well guess GreyFoxx isn't there..must have been his cat that signed in

[12:15:04]

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[12:18:25]

aputerboy:

any thoughts on what might be going wrong and why mythconverg_restore would say restore successful but mythtv-setup fails

[12:18:35]

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[12:19:10]

aputerboy:

the only relevant messages I see are "Current MythTV Schema Version (DBSchemaVer) : 1214 [repeated 5 times]

[12:19:17]

aputerboy:

followed by "Timed out waiting"

[12:19:37]

aputerboy:

followed by "Database Backup Complete" ...

[12:19:49]

aputerboy:

then "Couldn't upgrade database to new schema"

[12:22:13]

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[12:23:02]

raceme:

aputerboy: i've add this kinf of problems with frontends trying to upgrade schemas of mythtv plugins not installed on the backend (for eg, myth video installed on frontend and not installed on backend)

[12:23:38]

raceme:

aputerboy: i resolved that by installing missing plugin on backend, and launching a frontend on it (instead a remote one) that did the upgrade

[12:24:57]

aputerboy:

weird – running 'mythbackend' seems to have upgraded the schema and now mythtv-setup works

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syamajala:

hmm

[12:52:12]

syamajala:

still no sound on remote frontends

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[13:06:16]

wagnerrp:

aputerboy: mythtv-setup has the same exact capacity to update the schema as mythbackend

[13:06:47]

aputerboy:

i know – but not sure why it worked on mythbackend but failed on mythtv-setup

[13:07:22]

aputerboy:

this happened multiple times

[13:07:52]

aputerboy:

anyway – i was able to "unjumble" my mixed 0.21 program data tables and 0.22 settings table mixup

[13:09:35]

aputerboy:

I did that by extracting the still 0.21 schemad program tables from my latest database; inserting them into an old pure 0.21 backup; then upgraded the schema on that now pure 0.21 backup to 0.22 schema; then imported the program tables into my mixed version to write over the bad tables

[13:09:36]

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[13:10:04]

aputerboy:

wasn't too difficult and seems to have fixed everything — and i learned some lessons

[13:13:07]

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[13:18:36]

Dubstar_04:

has anyone made a grabber for mythnetvision yet?

[13:19:08]

iamlindoro:

RDV_Linux has.. seven of 'em ;)

[13:19:36]

RDV_Linux:

iamlindoro: your too fast for me;)

[13:20:36]

Dubstar_04:

do you know any tricks for getting full screen flash?

[13:21:26]

justinh:

turn the telly off & back on rapidly?

[13:21:30]

iamlindoro:

No tricks, just needs to be supported by whatever API you're querying

[13:22:00]

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[13:22:07]

Dubstar_04:

justinh: thanks, helpful as always!

[13:22:23]

syamajala:

hmm

[13:22:33]

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[13:22:44]

iamlindoro:

Maybe down the road we'll get clever and pass in a coordinate value for where a full screen button is on the player, but for now it would need to be supported in the API/URL building

[13:23:46]

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[13:23:51]

Dubstar_04:

i can get the url and play the video in its own window but the user still needs to click the full screenbutton

[13:24:01]

jams:

being c lever is generally not a good thing to aspire to.

[13:24:14]

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[13:24:25]

wagnerrp:

well thats annoying.... tightvnc wont pass mouse wheel events when the window is left of coordinate zero

[13:24:40]

iamlindoro:

jams: Heh, the classic definition, not the channel one :)

[13:25:44]

syamajala:

no idea what happened to the sound

[13:26:52]

Dubstar_04:

heres the url i have so far (uk only im afraid)

[13:26:55]

Dubstar_04:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/b00q2s43

[13:27:31]

wagnerrp:

seems thats all up to you for debugging

[13:27:42]

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[13:30:39]

iamlindoro:

Dubstar_04: US here, so I just get a rejection page

[13:31:05]

iamlindoro:

Dubstar_04: But glad to see you working on it

[13:31:32]

iamlindoro:

Dubstar_04: When you have something you think works, shoot it to me and I'll test it/comment and if you're in the ballpark I'll get you a copy of the code to play with

[13:32:08]

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[13:35:01]

Dubstar_04:

iamlindoro: thanks. Im excited for MNV and iplayer is one of the main things i want to use it with but the only way for it to work as i want violates the terms of the bbc!!

[13:35:22]

aputerboy:

What is the record_tmp table? Is it just a legacy of previous badness – and if so is there a way to merge it back in? or should I delete it?

[13:37:21]

wagnerrp:

i believe its a temporary tables used for the scheduler

[13:37:34]

wagnerrp:

if its not hurting anything, why delete it?

[13:38:14]

aputerboy:

ok – i thought it might be a legacy of corruption and if so wanted to fix it – but if normal table then of course I will leave it alone

[13:39:06]

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[13:41:24]

justinh:

Dubstar_04: why not contact somebody in BBC technical & see if y'all can collaborate

[13:41:55]

syamajala:

mythbuntu is frustrating

[13:43:11]

Dubstar_04:

justinh: i think they would want to work with someone more competent then i!!

[13:45:20]

justinh:

Dubstar_04: have a read here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2009/1 . . . roducts.html

[13:45:54]

justinh:

"We will define a media playback API that will allow 3rd parties to play the iPlayer media assets."

[13:46:04]

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[13:46:36]

justinh:

and "The API uses the ongoing work in the W3C HTML working group, for playing video and audio. Third parties can now use the APIs to interface to their media players"

[13:47:43]

iamlindoro:

I think a real iPlayer grabber using their API is probably a reasonable expectation for the near future

[13:47:52]

iamlindoro:

assuming it becomes available soonish

[13:48:07]

iamlindoro:

or even not-soonish, assuming people still have an interest when it becomes available

[13:48:59]

justinh:

lol. take that as an utter given I think :)

[13:49:20]

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[13:49:21]

justinh:

oh the iPlayer? Nah.. maybe a fortnight ago but not now :P

[13:49:54]

iamlindoro:

heh

[13:50:16]

iamlindoro:

I meant more that I hope interest in/momentum for MNV doesn't fizzle

[13:50:24]

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[13:50:34]

CShadowRun:

Anyone know how to fix EIT/Channel numbers with freesat?

[13:50:40]

iamlindoro:

A couple of the past plugins were more "easy" in some ways through a combination of hacky code and stely stuff

[13:50:48]

iamlindoro:

er stealy

[13:51:07]

iamlindoro:

This plugin has some warts still, but does things "right", will just need time to mature and grow too

[13:54:27]

Lt_Dan:

a (hopefully) quick question... is the db schema and myth protocol frozen in the -fixes branch? for various reasons, i have a mixed distribution environment and wanted to know if i had to keep the rev's the same like i did when i was running trunk

[13:54:52]

justinh:

no it's not

[13:55:01]

iamlindoro:

yes, DB schema and protocol will remain constant in a release

[13:55:24]

justinh:

technically you should always run the same version I mean

[13:55:34]

iamlindoro:

^^ Agreed

[13:55:42]

Lt_Dan:

that's what i figured, too.

[13:56:06]

|jonas|:

What does this mean: 2010-01–12 18:55:47.414 [h264_vdpau @ 0x7fe02a3e09c0]non-existing SPS 32 referenced in buffering period

[13:56:07]

Lt_Dan:

i'm mostly *buntu, but have a couple gentoo and fedora's i'd like to join the party--i'll do source installs to match the *buntu rev, then.

[13:56:50]

Lt_Dan:

thx

[13:57:02]

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[14:11:59]

dubstar_04_:

iamlindoro: would mnv call a c++ grabber?

[14:12:17]

iamlindoro:

Sure, anything that's executable and follows the standards is fine

[14:12:21]

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[14:12:37]

iamlindoro:

compiled code, python, perl, whatever, so long as it conforms to the grabber standard

[14:13:03]

dubstar_04_:

that should make things a little easier

[14:15:51]

ivor:

|jonas|: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=non-existing+SPS+32+referenced+

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[14:19:38]

Dagmar:

Finally a few days with nothing to record so I can upgrade

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[14:40:38]

jst:

Does anyone know how to remove "custom identifier" preferences? I have so many, and it's getting hard to keep track of them.

[14:40:46]

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[14:40:54]

jst:

I know they're stored in the database somewhere, I'd just like to be able to remove them and start fresh.

[14:41:19]

wagnerrp:

they should only require 'keeping track of' if youre tinkering in the database

[14:41:32]

wagnerrp:

and if youre doing that, you should already know enough sql to blast them away

[14:41:46]

jst:

wagnerrp, no, I have several machines and some are dual-booting and I have many different names for different preferences

[14:42:04]

jst:

I just check the "custom identifier" box and pick a name and reconfigure when something screws up.

[14:42:09]

jst:

I have no idea how to remove them from the database manually.

[14:42:34]

wagnerrp:

i thought you had to manually type those in

[14:43:06]

wagnerrp:

or are you more worried about reusing something accidentally?

[14:43:21]

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[14:43:44]

jst:

yes, reusing something

[14:43:53]

jst:

but also i have a lot of unnecessary entries in the database now

[14:44:05]

wagnerrp:

i that case... 'delete from settings where hostname="whatever";'

[14:44:44]

jst:

Do I do this under mysqladmin?

[14:45:22]

wagnerrp:

under whatever program you like

[14:45:26]

wagnerrp:

ive never used mysqladmin

[14:48:24]

jst:

What program do you use?

[14:48:32]

jst:

Sorry, I'm a total n00b when it comes to databases. :)

[14:51:07]

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[14:52:39]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: ping, pm

[14:52:45]

patdk-wk:

hmm, isn't that for mysql, or mysql-querybrowser

[14:58:03]

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[14:58:44]

Dagmar:

Hmm...

[14:58:48]

Dagmar:

I found me a bug!

[14:59:23]

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[14:59:26]

** Dagmar gets excited **

[15:00:25]

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[15:05:02]

Dagmar:

http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/7899 <-- yes I was in a hurry

[15:06:53]

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[15:17:36]

robertj:

iamlindoro, your theorization was correct, I did get HD locals on the limited-basic from charter

[15:18:00]

robertj:

I've never seen an OTA broadcast on a good set so I can't be sure, but I'm thinking the picture quality is fairly ratty though

[15:18:18]

robertj:

and quality varied a _ton_ between shows even on the same network

[15:19:11]

iamlindoro:

robertj: Yep, birate shaping is done dynamically, so will vary substantially

[15:19:39]

robertj:

iamlindoro, quality goes from "almost blu-ray" to "barely better than youtube"

[15:19:56]

robertj:

oddly enough we get ESPN & ESPN2 HD on our limited-basic

[15:20:10]

iamlindoro:

nice

[15:20:37]

robertj:

I still don't know all my channels cus I can't find the no-box channel lineup

[15:20:51]

robertj:

I assume some programming guide will figure that out once I get my TV tuner in

[15:21:13]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: So, as an official dev now, you know you're contractually obligated to provide MythUI bindings, right? :)

[15:21:30]

wagnerrp:

erm... sure

[15:21:41]

wagnerrp:

how about you tell me when theyre finished

[15:21:50]

wagnerrp:

(the UI updates that is)

[15:21:53]

wagnerrp:

:P

[15:21:59]

iamlindoro:

Don't overwhelm me with your excitement, buddy

[15:22:17]

iamlindoro:

Cool it with the can-do attitude and eagerness to get right to work

[15:22:50]

wagnerrp:

ill probably look into that once 0.23 is out

[15:24:07]

iamlindoro:

slick. I wonder how much PyQt might help with that

[15:24:32]

wagnerrp:

probably not a whole lot

[15:26:27]

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[15:29:08]

Dagmar:

Wow. I've got a lot of codecs to rebuild

[15:30:29]

Dagmar:

sanity check... seeking with flowplayer in mythweb isn't supposed to work yet is it?

[15:31:01]

iamlindoro:

correct

[15:31:13]

Dagmar:

Okay cool.

[15:31:40]

Dagmar:

I was in a hurry so the patch I just submitted on it reeks of "I USE WIN7 HARHAR" but I wanted to be sure I hadn't broken something else

[15:32:19]

Dagmar:

I'm going to have to rewrite my cflags constructor

[15:33:15]

jst:

robertj, schedulesdirect.org should have everything you need.

[15:33:20]

Dagmar:

Turns out I can't just unset PKG_OPTLEVEL like I thought

[15:33:33]

Dagmar:

Stupid bash having no concept of nonexistant variables

[15:33:34]

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[15:37:18]

xris:

Dagmar: seeking of any kind doesn't work without some serious mucking with the flv file. can't be done on the fly

[15:38:20]

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[15:47:37]

iamlindoro:

kormoc: Given any though to how to open public voting on themes in a few weeks?

[15:47:55]

iamlindoro:

Which is I guess to say, can you help set something up to do public voting on themes in a few weeks? :)

[15:48:06]

Cubber:

why does my frontend on the same pc as my backend only disply shows that I setup to record on that frontend,where as the other frontends that I have on other laptops see all the recordings in the list.

[15:48:32]

Cubber:

So if I setup a recording on a laptop that is a remote frontend the local frontend that is on the same box as the backend will not display them in its watch list

[15:51:26]

JEDIDIAH__:

"watch list" or "all recordings"?

[15:52:11]

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[15:52:19]

sphery:

heh, a magazine for gbee and stuarta: http://www.magazines.com/product/stuart-magaz . . . htswod7Wy7vg

[15:52:32]

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[15:55:44]

mattwj2002:

hi room

[15:55:53]

** mattwj2002 starts to protests **

[15:56:06]

mattwj2002:

http://www.wset.com/news/stories/0110/694966.html

[15:56:19]

mattwj2002:

the US is considering to end over the air free tv!

[15:57:57]

Dagmar:

Dude, don't.

[15:58:07]

Dagmar:

That TV station is just sensationalizing.

[15:58:35]

Dagmar:

There's about as much accuracy there as saying a man with a lighter is thinking about burning down a school.

[15:58:41]

mattwj2002:

I am not going to protest for real....just joking

[15:59:41]

mattwj2002:

I have seen commercials on my local tv station as well

[15:59:53]

sphery:

if the government starts paying people's cable/satellite bills, that may be the final straw that convinces me to find a new country

[16:00:00]

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[16:00:25]

iamlindoro:

you're already all the way at the edge of this one

[16:00:50]

sphery:

yeah, that's so I can make my quick escape

[16:01:07]

iamlindoro:

and swim to Kooba?

[16:01:31]

mattwj2002:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrestrial_television

[16:01:40]

mattwj2002:

Wikipedia mentions it too

[16:02:31]

kormoc:

iamlindoro: sure, poke me this weekend if I don't get back to ya before then

[16:02:42]

iamlindoro:

kormoc: awesome

[16:03:00]

mattwj2002:

O_o

[16:03:11]

iamlindoro:

kormoc: Probably doesn't have to be any more fancy than thumbnail/download link, 1–5 numerical vote on a few categories, and some tabulation of results

[16:03:32]

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[16:17:32]

wagnerrp:

Sandje: if youre working from source, you should probably be using 0.22-fixes from subversion, rather than the release package

[16:17:47]

Sandje:

hi,anybody can tell me why i cant install mythtv on pclinuxos, i downloaded the latest bz2 and i'm running the ./configure and i get an error

[16:18:03]

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[16:18:12]

iamlindoro:

and a failure to even complete configure suggests you are missing dependencies

[16:18:19]

Sandje:

ok wagnerrp ty i'll try that

[16:18:59]

iamlindoro:

Suspect very few people have tried to compile Myth on PCLinuxOS, since very few people even use it, let alone with Myth

[16:19:51]

Sandje:

hehe, probabbly not realy know lol

[16:20:00]

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[16:20:54]

iamlindoro:

The truth is with such a non-standard distro, it's going ot be very hard for anyone here to be able to tell you what you are missing dependency-wise

[16:21:35]

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[16:21:43]

ivor:

although there do seem to be quite a few blogs on the subject.... http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=pclinuxos+mythtv

[16:21:51]

ivor:

probably a good starting point.

[16:21:55]

iamlindoro:

indeed

[16:22:14]

iamlindoro:

though the many referencing the 2007 version may be of limited use :)

[16:23:08]

ivor:

I think I mentioned something about "a good starting point" :D

[16:23:30]

skd5aner:

is there anyway to see how a priority was computed for an upcoming recording?

[16:23:38]

Sandje:

actualy its the first time i use pclinuxos, i used alot of other linux distro's before: rehat,fedora,suse,ubuntu

[16:24:05]

skd5aner:

I'm curious if I can easily see how the recording rule, tuner priority, channel priority, etc are computed for a specific rule

[16:24:06]

ivor:

but they all worked so you needed a different one?

[16:24:50]

iamlindoro:

skd5aner: Not without reading the scheduler code-- the computation of what will record is decidedly non-trivial

[16:25:08]

iamlindoro:

skd5aner: you can look at recording priorities stuff and see some parts of the calculation

[16:25:24]

iamlindoro:

ie Utilities/Setup->Setup->TV Settings->Recording Priorities

[16:26:29]

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[16:26:30]

iamlindoro:

skd5aner: There is also a very very long discussion of how recording priority is calculated in the documentation

[16:27:24]

Sandje:

thx for the help annyway

[16:27:26]

Sandje:

seeye

[16:27:28]

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[16:30:33]

Cubber:

JEDIDIAH__ All recordings sorry had to go afk for a few

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[16:31:55]

sphery:

skd5aner: http://www.mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-12.html (what iamlindoro said)

[16:32:23]

sphery:

everything you ever wanted to know about scheduling and priorities

[16:32:44]

sphery:

and, seemingly, far more than every other Myth user cares to know about it (as no one ever seems to read it)

[16:32:55]

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[16:34:30]

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[16:34:37]

skd5aner:

Conan O'Brien just announced he's leaving NBC over the whole Leno fiasco

[16:34:48]

iamlindoro:

good for him, he should

[16:35:13]

skd5aner:

agreed

[16:36:21]

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[16:36:26]

skd5aner:

iamlindoro, sphery: re priorities, yup – I've re-read the docs/wiki/email archives, I've got a good idea of "how" it gets computed and where the data comes from, I just wasn't sure if it was transparent/exposed in a UI... thx

[16:36:50]

sphery:

yeah, closest is the recording priorities page iamlindoro mentioned

[16:36:51]

iamlindoro:

"sorta" on the rec priorities pages

[16:37:08]

iamlindoro:

also depends on how the page is themed... it's quite clear in Arclight ;)

[16:37:23]

skd5aner:

iamlindoro: Conan's statement is true Conan style: http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/state . . . 117289.shtml

[16:37:30]

skd5aner:

"People of Earth" :D

[16:38:45]

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[16:38:51]

skd5aner:

iamlindoro: damn you for "theme-teasing" ;)

[16:39:02]

iamlindoro:

Oh I'll give you theme teasing

[16:39:16]

iamlindoro:

http://www.fecitfacta.com/MV_Arclight.png

[16:39:20]

skd5aner:

haha – theme lust

[16:39:24]

iamlindoro:

http://www.fecitfacta.com/Arclight_PBB.png

[16:40:52]

skd5aner:

looks much nicer than one of the older ones I saw (not that it looked bad then, just saying – good progress)

[16:42:51]

skd5aner:

also – I guess I have a real quick (and probably dumb) question about Graphite...

[16:43:02]

GreyFoxx:

hmmmm I was gonna look at the mythfs stuff but it looks like I don't have a fuse module for python

[16:43:24]

skd5aner:

when I create a recording rule through the UI, I get a lot of truncation on some of the lists, making it almost impossilbe to distinguish between options

[16:43:30]

skd5aner:

is that a font problem?

[16:43:55]

iamlindoro:

impossible to know without seeing

[16:44:22]

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[16:44:29]

harry_:

heya all

[16:44:41]

harry_:

question: i have a mkv movie and a srt subs file

[16:44:48]

iamlindoro:

but in theory it's probably just a string which overruns the space available, that's just something that happens

[16:44:49]

harry_:

i used t to eable them in the interhal player

[16:44:54]

harry_:

butt they are out of sync

[16:44:58]

harry_:

how do i adjust that?

[16:45:33]

skd5aner:

but it's probably safe to say that it's not "normal" for the list of recording options "record at any time on channel, record at any time on this channel, etc" to be truncated?

[16:46:15]

skd5aner:

many of those options are difficult to distinguish because the text overuns the box

[16:46:20]

JEDIDIAH__:

...I had a similar problem with avi's and external srts. Going out of sync.

[16:46:23]

iamlindoro:

skd5aner: More likely I just didn't care enough about them to write a custom widget for strings that long

[16:46:53]

iamlindoro:

skd5aner: and blew by them thinking, "Someday we'll have autoscrolling text or be able to cutdown from the front instead of the back and someone will fix this"

[16:46:57]

skd5aner:

iamlindoro: ok, if it was a problem on my end, then I wanted to fix it – if it was a theme problem, I'll deal with it

[16:46:59]

harry_:

JEDIDIAH__: they are not out fo sync

[16:47:09]

harry_:

well.. they are not going out of sync

[16:47:18]

skd5aner:

thx

[16:47:18]

harry_:

it's just the start offset is wrong

[16:47:36]

JEDIDIAH__:

my problem is different.

[16:49:20]

harry_:

is there a sollution ?

[16:49:22]

JEDIDIAH__:

I usually use an external app for mythvideo so this doesn't bother me so much...

[16:49:39]

harry_:

there is an audio sync, video, but no subs?

[16:49:45]

sphery:

GreyFoxx: on the fuse stuff, I'm hoping to (let wagnerrp :) get that in contrib, then change mythrename.pl so that it /only/ does links (so we can close http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/4932 and http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/7535 since we really have no control over the file system itself.

[16:50:00]

harry_:

i can't use an external player, since it's hd

[16:50:16]

harry_:

and i use the vdpau which, apparently is not used by mplayer

[16:50:16]

sphery:

The only rename support I plan to leave is a rename to "standard" names (i.e. to fix the brokenness people caused when they originally renamed)

[16:50:34]

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[16:50:50]

JEDIDIAH__:

there's a vdpau version of mplayer floating around. There's an Ubuntu PPA for it.

[16:51:20]

JEDIDIAH__:

one for xine too I think. but it doesn't know how to handle m2ts files.

[16:52:05]

wagnerrp:

i thought the vdpau stuff was in mplayer proper by now

[16:52:15]

iamlindoro:

it is

[16:52:23]

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[16:53:29]

JEDIDIAH__:

it must be in the SVN versions even if it isn't in normal distro binary packages yet.

[16:56:41]

wagnerrp:

man... ive forgotten just how long fresh svn checkouts of mythtv take

[16:57:05]

GreyFoxx:

sphery: neat

[16:57:22]

GreyFoxx:

I gotta go looking for the source to the python-fuse or whatever module so I can install and try it :)

[16:57:44]

sphery:

cool.. If you find it's "out of reach" for a lot of users, please let me know--so I can amend my plan. :)

[16:58:07]

wagnerrp:

GreyFoxx: ive actually had it running for well over a week now

[16:58:19]

wagnerrp:

every so often i seems to glitch, and i have to close and re-open the file

[16:58:29]

wagnerrp:

but it seems pretty stable

[16:59:00]

GreyFoxx:

Cool.

[16:59:50]

GreyFoxx:

is the python fuse stuff a seperately available set of source outside of the regular fuse source ?

[17:00:26]

wagnerrp:

its just a python API to access the fuse stuff, you still have to have fuse and the fuse kernel module installed

[17:00:37]

GreyFoxx:

I have fuse and such

[17:00:42]

GreyFoxx:

just no fuse.py anywhere :)

[17:02:01]

wagnerrp:

right now, the only significant issues are that you have to close all instances of the file to let the python bindings refresh the size on a mythproto file transfer, and that it doesnt work very well with multiple simultaneous reads on multiple files

[17:02:52]

wagnerrp:

as it stands, the bindings take a file size given by mythbackend at the beginning of the transfer, and use that as a static end of the file

[17:03:21]

wagnerrp:

i should add in a 'CHECKFILE' to update the size if you try to seek past the current endpoint

[17:04:01]

wagnerrp:

whats this multimedia message on the -users list?

[17:04:24]

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[17:04:25]

sphery:

multimedia?

[17:04:48]

wagnerrp:

like someone tried to send an SMS message to the mailing list

[17:04:49]

GreyFoxx:

http://fuse4win.4host.ru/

[17:04:54]

GreyFoxx:

that could be interesting :P)

[17:04:55]

sphery:

ahhh

[17:05:07]

sphery:

pocket-texting, perhaps?

[17:06:11]

sphery:

"This is Flavor Flav."

[17:06:37]

wagnerrp:

you can read it? my webmail just returns an error

[17:07:53]

iamlindoro:

sphery: Way to beray the fact that you watch commercials ;)

[17:07:56]

iamlindoro:

er betray

[17:08:21]

wagnerrp:

i would say he just watches the surreal life... but no broadcast VH1

[17:10:01]

iamlindoro:

He's specifically referencing a commercial-- a phone commercial

[17:10:14]

iamlindoro:

Though that calls me into question since I've seen it too ;)

[17:10:28]

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[17:14:23]

JEDIDIAH__:

You mean you guys just aren't PE fans? '-)

[17:15:03]

JEDIDIAH__:

you know that commflagging code is pretty darn good...

[17:15:05]

GreyFoxx:

wagnerrp: Any chance I could get a copy of your fuse.py ? it doesn't seem to like the one I just installed :)

[17:17:19]

wagnerrp:

whats the error?

[17:17:47]

GreyFoxx:

http://www.pastebin.ca/1748809

[17:17:56]

wagnerrp:

ive just got 'py26-fusefs-0.2_1' installed

[17:17:57]

GreyFoxx:

I used http://code.google.com/p/fusepy/

[17:19:47]

wagnerrp:

ive got one from sourceforge... http://fuse.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/FusePython

[17:21:37]

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[17:22:27]

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[17:22:38]

GreyFoxx:

go, Ok, got a littler further using the first one in that list

[17:23:08]

GreyFoxx:

which could be me just having an old version of python

[17:23:27]

wagnerrp:

should work on 2.5

[17:23:30]

GreyFoxx:

http://www.pastebin.ca/1748819

[17:23:33]

GreyFoxx:

ok, I have 2.5.1

[17:23:40]

wagnerrp:

but there may be syntactical issues with 2.4 or earlier

[17:24:09]

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[17:24:28]

sphery:

iamlindoro: heh, sometimes I listen to commercials--after all, they're the perfect time to go get your snack from the kitchen

[17:24:50]

wagnerrp:

try using this one instead of the one on trac... http://www.wagnerrp.com/files/rewrite.tar.bz2

[17:25:15]

wagnerrp:

although like i said, its been running for about a week and a half, i may have changed something that broke it

[17:25:39]

wagnerrp:

ill remount them and see what happens

[17:25:51]

GreyFoxx:

Same error during the make install of the bindings

[17:25:58]

GreyFoxx:

using the one you just posted

[17:26:07]

GreyFoxx:

byte-compiling /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/MythTV/MythBase.py to MythBase.pyc

[17:26:07]

GreyFoxx:

File "usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/MythTV/MythBase.py", line 1172

[17:26:07]

GreyFoxx:

ALL = 0b1111111111111111111111111111

[17:26:07]

GreyFoxx:

^

[17:26:07]

GreyFoxx:

SyntaxError: invalid syntax

[17:26:36]

wagnerrp:

should be 'python setup.py install'

[17:27:02]

GreyFoxx:

same

[17:27:07]

GreyFoxx:

error that is

[17:27:44]

skd5aner:

why would a recoding rule "record at any time on any channel" simultaneous record something on an HD source and an SD source?

[17:28:02]

wagnerrp:

skd5aner: because those two entries in the guide data do not match

[17:28:13]

skd5aner:

title is the same, progid is the same,

[17:28:36]

GreyFoxx:

description could be different? Airing date could be different? even an extra space could throw it off

[17:28:41]

skd5aner:

Episode number is the same

[17:29:15]

skd5aner:

Of course, it's a rule I'd rather blast away, but the wife might be a bit t'd off

[17:29:37]

skd5aner:

program description is the same

[17:29:41]

** GreyFoxx looks at the clock and things it's time to go home **

[17:29:46]

GreyFoxx:

thinks even

[17:29:47]

wagnerrp:

GreyFoxx: looks like that syntax for binary literals started in 2.6

[17:29:56]

GreyFoxx:

wagnerrp: ahhh ok

[17:30:00]

wagnerrp:

ill have to replace them with "int('whatever', 2)"

[17:30:17]

GreyFoxx:

if you update it anytime soon I'd love to check it out

[17:30:24]

JEDIDIAH__:

any chance of getting a "one at a time" restriction for recording rules?

[17:30:36]

** GreyFoxx heads out **

[17:30:40]

wagnerrp:

'one at a time'?

[17:30:59]

wagnerrp:

like only match one of a specific rule at a time

[17:31:12]

JEDIDIAH__:

to deal with the "simultaneous record something on an HD source and an SD source" problem.

[17:31:32]

wagnerrp:

you can force one channel

[17:31:38]

wagnerrp:

or you can record one a day/week

[17:31:46]

JEDIDIAH__:

or just as a tweak so that one show doesn't "take over".

[17:32:03]

JEDIDIAH__:

"one a day" is fine for certain things.

[17:32:51]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: out of curiousity, is there any way to see why the scheduler thinks they are unique?

[17:33:02]

skd5aner:

ps – datasource is SD

[17:33:19]

wagnerrp:

look at the title, subtitle, and description, and see whats different

[17:33:20]

skd5aner:

all the obvious signs to me show that they are the same

[17:33:20]

JEDIDIAH__:

when I've seen this happen it's been an OTA lineup versus a cable one.

[17:33:32]

wagnerrp:

alternatively, they may both have a show id defined, differently

[17:33:55]

wagnerrp:

episode id will override all other matching if given

[17:35:41]

skd5aner:

If I had it my way, I'd have American Idol record 0 times, definitely not 2 times. Maybe my scheduler is confused and needs guidance

[17:35:51]

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[17:36:29]

wagnerrp:

PEWSOSO?

[17:38:10]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: lost me on that one?

[17:38:26]

wagnerrp:

problem-exists-with-spouse-or-significant-other

[17:38:37]

wagnerrp:

play on PEBKAC

[17:38:55]

skd5aner:

haha – yea, but she's not open source, so I have no clue how her code is written

[17:39:23]

wagnerrp:

thats possibly the geekiest thing ive ever heard someone say in here

[17:39:27]

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[17:40:03]

skd5aner:

eh – "when in Rome" ;)

[17:40:28]

skd5aner:

let me show you a pastebin of the list schedules – see if you can spot somethign I can't?

[17:40:32]

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[17:41:12]

skd5aner:

http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/1748834

[17:41:15]

skd5aner:

from mythweb

[17:41:33]

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[17:42:17]

wagnerrp:

GreyFoxx: whenever you get back, ive replaced those literals with something that should work in 2.5.... same link to file

[17:43:37]

wagnerrp:

is that 'HDTV' part of the show description? or something mythweb tacked on?

[17:48:23]

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[17:50:23]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: checking

[17:51:11]

xris:

probably mythweb

[17:51:28]

skd5aner:

xris: that was my guess, but you're the expert :)

[17:52:54]

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[17:53:13]

ivor:

<OT> heh freesat iplayer is pretty neat.</OT>

[17:53:34]

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[17:53:37]

skd5aner:

the HDTV flag comes from the videoprop column in the programs table

[17:53:49]

skd5aner:

I don't think it's used to distinguish standard recording rules

[17:54:54]

skd5aner:

well, there's also a HDTV column as well, which is boolean

[17:55:30]

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[17:57:03]

skd5aner:

found all the records in the program table, all are identical as far as I can see

[18:00:50]

skd5aner:

dump from the database: http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/1748867

[18:02:00]

wagnerrp:

maybe you have duplicate checking turned off?

[18:02:04]

skd5aner:

found hte problem

[18:02:20]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: that's what it was, duplicate checking was turned off :P

[18:02:25]

skd5aner:

doh!

[18:02:34]

skd5aner:

no clue why...

[18:02:52]

skd5aner:

I don't know if I've ever changed that box on a single recording rule in 6 years of use?

[18:03:16]

skd5aner:

we'll call it a PWESOSO problem ;)

[18:06:32]

wagnerrp:

problem-was-entirely?

[18:07:18]

skd5aner:

haha – sure, that works too

[18:07:29]

skd5aner:

thanks for the second pair of eyes

[18:16:22]

iamlindoro:

jams: Would it offend you or bother you if I do the port of your settings plugin? This thread is irritating me

[18:16:47]

wagnerrp:

why use a plugin, when we have bash!

[18:17:34]

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[18:18:10]

iamlindoro:

especially as people are commenting on how they're going to use the stupid bash script for their next rebuild

[18:18:23]

Toast_ is now known as Toast

[18:18:53]

JEDIDIAH__:

bash scripts... borg or replicators?

[18:18:57]

JEDIDIAH__:

'-)

[18:19:17]

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[18:21:20]

jams:

iamlindoro- it's not a plugin, it wouldn't bother me, that patch is outdated.

[18:21:49]

iamlindoro:

jams: If I wait for you to do it, how long are you thinking before you'll have a chance?

[18:22:11]

jams:

well it was next on the list after mythsmolt..so a week or so(depending on work)

[18:22:15]

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[18:22:29]

iamlindoro:

OK, will probably leave it to you then

[18:23:05]

iamlindoro:

Since you at least know the code to begin with

[18:23:29]

jams:

k

[18:23:54]

wagnerrp:

smolt?

[18:23:56]

iamlindoro:

Would be nice to get it in for .23 if possible

[18:24:13]

jams:

for now I think it's best to list the settings difference only on the cmd line

[18:24:18]

_ben:

Yeah, 0.23 must be coming up soon :p

[18:24:27]

iamlindoro:

Freeze is 2/1

[18:24:29]

jams:

never came up with a good way to show it in a gui

[18:24:29]

wagnerrp:

end of february

[18:24:40]

_ben:

oh

[18:24:47]

skd5aner:

mythfish?

[18:25:17]

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[18:25:21]

timball:

that's a dbl fucking boo

[18:25:26]

timball:

what dir do i have to put my videos to show up in the "Media Library"->Watch Videos menu?

[18:25:32]

wagnerrp:

watch the language

[18:25:36]

skd5aner:

timball – watch language please

[18:25:41]

timball:

wagnerrp: yeah sry that was a mis paste

[18:25:47]

wagnerrp:

you put the videos in the folder you told it you put the videos

[18:26:06]

wagnerrp:

either through the 'Videos' storage group in mythtv-setup

[18:26:20]

iamlindoro:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Mythvideo

[18:26:25]

wagnerrp:

or through the video folder in the mythvideo setup section of mythfrontend

[18:28:18]

timball:

mythvideo setup.... hrm... where's that

[18:28:35]

iamlindoro:

See wiki page above

[18:28:35]

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[18:28:36]

wagnerrp:

in the frontend, under setup, media settings

[18:29:23]

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[18:29:39]

timball:

OH! thanks! that's a totally non-intuative place to put that setting

[18:29:49]

timball:

but found it!

[18:29:59]

wagnerrp:

under settings?

[18:30:11]

wagnerrp:

would never think to look there...

[18:30:48]

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[18:31:11]

timball:

well i thought it would be in the video Manager

[18:31:33]

wagnerrp:

what version of mythtv are you running?

[18:31:45]

wagnerrp:

as the video manager no longer exists

[18:32:06]

sphery:

0.22 still has it in the menus, doesn't it?

[18:32:09]

sphery:

even though it's useless

[18:32:14]

wagnerrp:

only as a separate view

[18:32:18]

sphery:

right

[18:32:21]

wagnerrp:

its no longer accessible through setup

[18:32:33]

sphery:

thought it was in 0.22

[18:32:43]

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[18:32:51]

wagnerrp:

i dont think so, but i could be wrong

[18:33:00]

wagnerrp:

i dont have a copy of 0.22 to look at

[18:33:05]

sphery:

either way, it's useless :)

[18:33:12]

sphery:

would be better if it's not in 0.22

[18:33:22]

wagnerrp:

3?

[18:33:25]

iamlindoro:

it's not in .22

[18:33:35]

iamlindoro:

I pulled it

[18:33:36]

sphery:

I know it's not in trunk

[18:33:51]

sphery:

cool... pulled it because of all the problems from people trying to use it in 0.22?

[18:34:00]

timball:

hrm... nothing still shows up in the video manager. could mythtv not understand .avi extensions?

[18:34:02]

sphery:

i.e. it's still in the *bunut pre-release version that people /need/ to upgrade?

[18:34:10]

sphery:

timball: read the page...

[18:34:13]

timball:

wagnerrp: it's whatever the latest mythubntu is

[18:34:13]

sphery:

the part about scanning

[18:34:16]

wagnerrp:

timball: have you read that page? specifically where it tells you to scan?

[18:34:25]

iamlindoro:

It is probably in the "Mythbuntu 9.10 .22 that's not .22"

[18:34:26]

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[18:34:35]

timball:

Oh... damn

[18:34:38]

wagnerrp:

timball: have you updated mythtv from what comes stock in mythbuntu? they shipped witha release candidate

[18:34:42]

sphery:

iamlindoro is way too fast--I was barely started typing that

[18:34:51]

sphery:

timball: you should upgrade to current 0.22-fixes

[18:34:57]

sphery:

there are a lot of, er, fixes in there

[18:35:09]

timball:

will doing an apt-get update && upgrade get it?

[18:35:12]

sphery:

the version you have is a pre-release version that needs upgrading to be stable/work properly :)

[18:35:20]

iamlindoro:

not unless you enable their fixes build repository first

[18:35:25]

timball:

okay

[18:35:39]

iamlindoro:

www.mythbuntu.org/auto-builds

[18:35:42]

iamlindoro:

(IIRC)

[18:36:56]

patdk-wk:

the only thing that bothers me is that the ppa is like updated daily

[18:37:04]

patdk-wk:

wish there was like a monthly option :)

[18:37:21]

wagnerrp:

ppa?

[18:37:44]

patdk-wk:

ppa is what ubuntu calls a pre-release package

[18:37:47]

sphery:

patdk-wk: (I don't know *buntu/apt/..., but) can you just update it once to a stable version, then leave it for a month without getting daily nags?

[18:37:52]

patdk-wk:

or, testing package :)

[18:38:11]

patdk-wk:

sphery, you will only get nagged if you attempt to do any other update :)

[18:38:15]

sphery:

personal package archive?

[18:38:16]

patdk-wk:

like to install security patchs

[18:38:21]

patdk-wk:

unless you disable it

[18:38:23]

clever:

sphery: you can control how often it checks for updates, and you could just turn that off and manauly check

[18:38:38]

timball:

which version of mythTV should i use? 0.22 or 0.23? (i'm gonna guess 0.23 w/ the assumption that newer is *always* better)

[18:38:50]

sphery:

ah, cool... so it seems it should allow you to update, if it works today, then not worry about updating 'til you feel it's time

[18:38:55]

sphery:

timball: 0.22

[18:39:03]

sphery:

0.23 doesn't exist

[18:39:04]

skd5aner:

do the ubuntu folks plan to pack .22-fixes for the next version of ubuntu (10.04)? Or do you think they'll go with .23 (trunk, release, or fixes)?

[18:39:13]

sphery:

so that's the unstable/development trunk

[18:39:17]

sphery:

timball: ^^^

[18:39:19]

wagnerrp:

probably 0.23, since it should be available in march

[18:39:20]

patdk-wk:

they will defently go .22

[18:39:26]

skd5aner:

just curious – I compile from source

[18:39:29]

patdk-wk:

march?

[18:39:33]

sphery:

yeah, in march, 0.23 is a good choice :)

[18:39:38]

wagnerrp:

beginning of march is the current schedule

[18:39:39]

timball:

is the PPA worth activating?

[18:39:45]

patdk-wk:

.23 will never make it in time for ubuntu

[18:39:53]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: feature freeze 2/1, but do you think the final/fixes will be done by ubuntu's feature freeze for an april release?

[18:39:58]

wagnerrp:

yeah, because april comes before march

[18:40:05]

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[18:40:34]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: but I don't know when Ubuntu closes it's doors, is what I'm saying

[18:40:47]

sphery:

timball: you need to get the 0.22-fixes stuff... the 0.23 discussion is about what will be in Ubuntu 10.04

[18:40:50]

patdk-wk:

hmm, ubuntu normally closes it like 2 months ahead

[18:40:54]

patdk-wk:

for new stuff

[18:40:55]

sphery:

I don't know anything more than that

[18:40:58]

wagnerrp:

for 9.10, they used an RC from early october

[18:41:09]

sphery:

right... which is why timball needs to update :)

[18:41:14]

patdk-wk:

heh

[18:41:19]

skd5aner:

if they close Feb 1, and myth's .23 is not gold until March 15...

[18:41:35]

sphery:

we're looking at a feature freeze before Feb 1

[18:41:37]

skd5aner:

just didn't know...

[18:41:56]

sphery:

so they may take the feature frozen 0.23-fixes for 10.04, again

[18:42:04]

skd5aner:

sphery: so either way, even if it's not final, ubuntu can use something that's extremely darn close I suppose?

[18:42:13]

sphery:

yeah

[18:42:37]

sphery:

though pre-release may actually be worse than just going with 0.22 again

[18:42:37]

skd5aner:

yea, better than the last go around for ubuntu I suppose

[18:42:46]

sphery:

especially if we keep up the 4-monthly releases

[18:42:46]

wagnerrp:

to be honest, trunk has been usable this entire cycle

[18:42:48]

skd5aner:

sphery: that was kinda my thought

[18:42:50]

jams:

iamlindoro- wow your right that thread is creating more traffic then it should

[18:43:08]

sphery:

which one? the "bash script to do what jams did right"?

[18:43:09]

wagnerrp:

the only issues have been that the proto and schemas have updated a couple times

[18:43:14]

jams:

sphery- yes

[18:43:15]

skd5aner:

is markk expecting to merge his OSD branch back in before freeze?

[18:43:23]

wagnerrp:

so you might get caught on the wrong side of the boundary when updating

[18:43:26]

sphery:

skd5aner: we're hoping they'll be ready

[18:43:39]

skd5aner:

sweet

[18:44:07]

sphery:

wagnerrp: though there were some times when updating was a /very/ bad idea

[18:44:16]

sphery:

i.e. socket changes, programinfo/recordedinfo changes, ...

[18:44:33]

sphery:

so those running trunk really needed to pay attention (if they wanted a working Myth)

[18:44:47]

wagnerrp:

there havent really been any big breaking changes

[18:44:57]

wagnerrp:

only additions (like the event handlers)

[18:45:01]

skd5aner:

honestly, I was just asking about the myth timeframe vs ubuntu time frame out of curiosity since it seemed pretty close, didn't know if any of that was intentional

[18:45:12]

skd5aner:

I compile from source anyway, so... doesn't affect me

[18:45:18]

wagnerrp:

at least not that ive noticed

[18:45:19]

sphery:

all the changes to how the mythproto communications work made things very unstable for a while

[18:45:28]

sphery:

based on the tickets and my own experience with my dev box

[18:45:28]

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[18:45:41]

sphery:

of course, for the dev box, I updated even when I knew it was unstable

[18:45:45]

wagnerrp:

for 0.22–0.23?

[18:45:47]

sphery:

yeah

[18:46:12]

sphery:

I'm guessing you just did updates at good times... The way you should when running trunk in production

[18:46:42]

sphery:

There were even a couple of days when I couldn't test patches because it was too broken at the time (so I had to wait to test/commit them)

[18:46:48]

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[18:46:59]

sphery:

but it was /definitely/ smoother than 0.21->0.22

[18:47:07]

jst:

Is it normal to see this: -rw-rw-rw- 1 ntp ntp 74556 2010-01–11 21:06 Chuck – 2010-01–11, 8–00 PM – Chuck Versus the Angel of Death.mpg.png

[18:47:12]

jst:

ntp/ntp owns the file?

[18:47:18]

sphery:

many fewer dangerous changes

[18:47:36]

sphery:

jst: that means that your start script is broken

[18:47:47]

sphery:

or someone's been changing uid's/gid's

[18:47:54]

wagnerrp:

well i admit ive only updated a handful of times in the last couple months

[18:48:02]

jams:

or it's nfs mount and the id's doin't match

[18:48:04]

jst:

sphery, do you mean /etc/init.d/mythtv-backend start?

[18:48:07]

sphery:

yeah, it was definitely stable more often than it wasn't

[18:48:11]

wagnerrp:

was going to update last night, but apparently VLC is failing to build

[18:48:23]

sphery:

jst: that and/or the configuration for it--whatever is setting the user to run mythbackend as

[18:49:05]

jst:

Some files are owned by mythtv/mythtv, some by ntp/ntp

[18:49:11]

jst:

Does that still make sense?

[18:49:35]

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[18:49:41]

sphery:

just means that the user mythbackend is started as has changed

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[18:53:11]

sphery:

Funny that the people who understand the MythTV data well are the only ones who understand the dangers of direct DB data editing. Therefore, those who know the data least are the most likely to mess with it.

[18:54:08]

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[18:58:26]

th1_:

hi, I'm trying to upgrade from 0.21-fixes to 0.22 but I get a database error: http://pastebin.com/m1a93042e

[18:58:28]

th1_:

can anyone help?

[18:58:59]

th1_:

I'm sure it's just a "DELETE" command will fix it..

[18:59:05]

th1_:

but I'm not sure how to find the right one

[18:59:45]

sphery:

th1_: that means you have corrupt data in your 0.21-fixes database

[18:59:53]

th1_:

I have a duplicate entry yes?

[18:59:57]

sphery:

th1_: do /not/ delete or lose the old pre-upgrade database backup

[19:00:03]

sphery:

it's your only hope to get thigns working properly

[19:00:07]

sphery:

th1_: gentoo?

[19:00:09]

th1_:

don't worry I copied it 2 places :)

[19:00:11]

th1_:

no debian

[19:00:16]

th1_:

but upgrading from 0.21-fixes on ubuntu

[19:00:18]

sphery:

good--copying it is a great idea

[19:00:31]

th1_:

I have daily backup of the db so no sweat

[19:00:36]

sphery:

what version of 0.22? mythbackend --version (svn revision portion)

[19:01:11]

th1_:

0.22.20091023–1 from debian-multimedia.org

[19:01:29]

sphery:

can you pastebin the output of: mythbackend --version

[19:01:50]

th1_:

hhttp://pastebin.com/m4f42e07d

[19:01:57]

th1_:

sorry extra h but the number is right :)

[19:02:28]

sphery:

"Unknown"

[19:02:30]

sphery:

useless

[19:02:35]

th1_:

lol

[19:02:39]

th1_:

I can apt-get source and tell you..

[19:02:57]

sphery:

Well, does the debian package give any date information

[19:03:08]

sphery:

all we know is that it was sometime on or after Oct 23, 2009

[19:03:09]

th1_:

20091023 looks like a date

[19:03:16]

sphery:

that doesn't change daily

[19:03:23]

sphery:

it can be the same for 6mos+

[19:03:40]

sphery:

like I said--only says it was on or after that date

[19:03:58]

th1_:

it was last made on Sun 10 Jan 2010

[19:04:10]

th1_:

but the maintainer didn't put hte svn number in the changelog :/

[19:04:21]

sphery:

pulled from 0.22-fixes SVN on Jan 10?

[19:04:49]

sphery:

can you pastebin the output of: mysql -umythtv -p mythconverg -e 'status;'

[19:04:58]

th1_:

they don't mention pulling since Jan 5 when it was revision 23069

[19:05:35]

sphery:

OK... that should be new enough

[19:05:38]

th1_:

http://pastebin.com/ma0fc85d

[19:06:39]

sphery:

have you ever run the MySQL server on a different system?

[19:06:44]

sphery:

especially a different distro?

[19:06:58]

th1_:

you mean this instance? no it has always run on my debian server

[19:07:08]

sphery:

I mean since you started using MythTV

[19:07:18]

th1_:

I used to run mythtv inside an Ubuntu chroot but the debian always ran the mysql server

[19:07:24]

sphery:

ok

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[19:11:56]

wagnerrp:

and mythlogbot too

[19:11:56]

sphery:

wonder which side he's on

[19:11:56]

th1_:

I'm here :)

[19:11:56]

sphery:

good :)

[19:11:57]

wagnerrp:

no one post any links, i dont want to have to type them out... :P

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[19:12:15]

th1_:

2 rows in set (0.00 sec)#

[19:12:20]

th1_:

its because it's recorded the same show on two of my DVB-S tuners at different channels that are really the same...

[19:12:20]

sphery:

can you pastebin them--but redo as: mysql -umythtv -p mythconverg -e "SELECT * FROM oldrecorded WHERE starttime = '2009-09–03 04:05:00'\G" 2>&1 | tee rows.log

[19:12:21]

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[19:12:21]

sphery:

that means that you have corrupt channels

[19:12:23]

th1_:

I think I had at the time but not anymore

[19:12:23]

th1_:

I was messing with my channels with some PHP scripts I'd made to reorganize my several thousand useless satellite chans

[19:12:23]

sphery:

can you pastebin the above (\G version)

[19:12:31]

th1_:

http://pastebin.com/m2f735768

[19:12:32]

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[19:13:15]

th1_:

yeah 1 of them is "TV2 EastJutland" and the other is "TV2 East"

[19:13:30]

th1_:

they are from the same satellite co. but they have different frequencies and names otherwise they are the same channel :/

[19:14:31]

sphery:

th1_: the corruption is: "station: TV2 / \ufffdst" and "station: TV2 / \ufffdstjylland"

[19:14:44]

** sphery wonders what unicode FFFD is **

[19:14:59]

th1_:

[19:15:16]

sphery:

Unicode Character 'REPLACEMENT CHARACTER' "used to replace an incoming character whose value is unknown or unrepresentable in Unicode"

[19:15:33]

th1_:

ok

[19:15:41]

th1_:

it's normally ok and shows correctly in mythtv

[19:16:34]

th1_:

shall I just do "delete from oldrecorded where chanid=8703 or chanid=8706"?

[19:16:40]

th1_:

I don't care if it remembers I recorded those or not

[19:17:04]

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[19:17:04]

sphery:

So, try: mysql -umythtv -p mythconverg -e "UPDATE oldrecorded SET station = 'TV2 / Ost' WHERE starttime = '2009-09–03 04:05:00' AND chanid = '8706';"

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[19:17:26]

th1_:

ok done

[19:17:33]

th1_:

and also for 8703 right?

[19:17:35]

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[19:17:44]

sphery:

th1_: also, I need the output of: mysql -umythtv -p mythconverg -e "SELECT * FROM channel WHERE chanid IN ('8706', '8703');

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[19:18:23]

sphery:

th1_: can't be the same station... for 8703, would have to do: mysql -umythtv -p mythconverg -e "UPDATE oldrecorded SET station = 'TV2 / Ostjylland' WHERE starttime = '2009-09–03 04:05:00' AND chanid = '8703';"

[19:18:43]

sphery:

though it may be unnecessary after you do the 8706 one

[19:18:52]

th1_:

http://pastebin.com/m79b72c09

[19:19:24]

sphery:

Looks like you'll have this problem again with others.

[19:19:32]

th1_:

hrm

[19:20:17]

th1_:

how can I "select chanid from channel where name like '%thatfunnycharacter%'" ?

[19:20:29]

sphery:

th1_: mysql -umythtv -p mythconverg -e "UPDATE oldrecorded SET station = 'TV2 / Ostjylland' WHERE station LIKE 'TV2 / %stjylland';"

[19:20:38]

** gbee hopes Beirdo doesn't have to swim to work tomorrow **

[19:21:00]

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[19:21:02]

sphery:

th1_: mysql -umythtv -p mythconverg -e "UPDATE channel SET callsign = 'TV2 / Ostjylland' WHERE callsign LIKE 'TV2 / %stjylland';"

[19:21:20]

** gbee reads an updated news item and decides it's unlikely **

[19:21:33]

sphery:

th1_: then the same 2 queries for "TV2 / Odst" and "TV2 / %dst"

[19:21:38]

wagnerrp:

raining heavily in the atlantic?

[19:22:16]

gbee:

massive earth quake off Haiti and Tsunami warnings

[19:22:23]

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[19:22:42]

wagnerrp:

ah.... didnt know there were active faults in that area

[19:22:47]

sphery:

th1_: after doing those changes, try the upgrade, again

[19:22:56]

sphery:

i.e. run mythtv-setup and see if it works

[19:23:05]

gbee:

but they reckon anything more than 200km away is probably safe, so Costa Rica should be ok

[19:23:34]

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[19:23:53]

gbee:

7.3 ... that will probably be revised down, but it's still a significant size

[19:24:00]

wagnerrp:

chances on #7901 being a gentoo user?

[19:24:34]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: 99.98%

[19:24:35]

wagnerrp:

the one in the pacific was a 8.9?

[19:24:40]

sphery:

th1_: also, after the upgrade succeeds, you can edit your callsign for your channels and put it back to the proper character--edit them through mythtv-setup or mythfrontend channel editor to make sure it's not corrupted, again

[19:25:02]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: although he's compiling out of his home dir which is just crazy for a gentoo user

[19:25:15]

th1_:

[19:25:16]

wagnerrp:

yeah, didnt see that

[19:25:31]

sphery:

wagnerrp: wanna close it?

[19:25:43]

sphery:

"seek compilation help on the mythtv-users mailing list"

[19:25:49]

wagnerrp:

i already closed its duplicate, #7902

[19:26:01]

sphery:

so now close it's unicate...

[19:26:02]

kormoc:

He needs to disable MMX

[19:26:03]

th1_:

sphery, http://pastebin.com/m6481ace1

[19:26:23]

wagnerrp:

he needs to not force the architecture

[19:26:37]

wagnerrp:

doing that on 32-bit systems leads to breakage of that sort

[19:26:44]

wagnerrp:

or at least it used to

[19:26:49]

sphery:

th1_: did you get a "rows changed: 1" when you executed: mysql -umythtv -p mythconverg -e "UPDATE oldrecorded SET station = 'TV2 / Ostjylland' WHERE station LIKE 'TV2 / %stjylland';"

[19:27:03]

th1_:

sphery, no 2

[19:27:15]

iamlindoro:

#7901 = INVALID

[19:27:21]

iamlindoro:

bad bad naughty config options

[19:28:14]

sphery:

th1_: and for: mysql -umythtv -p mythconverg -e "UPDATE oldrecorded SET station = 'TV2 / Odst' WHERE station LIKE 'TV2 / %dst';"

[19:28:29]

sphery:

I still think wagnerrp should close it

[19:28:33]

th1_:

sphery, 1

[19:28:44]

sphery:

If he doesn't, I will, but it's his chance to be a meanie

[19:28:55]

th1_:

but this one is a 3rd station just called "TV 2"

[19:29:00]

wagnerrp:

i just do python.... compiling code scares me

[19:29:03]

wagnerrp:

:)

[19:29:10]

th1_:

sphery, all of these stations are regional versions of a national channel so most they send is the same

[19:29:31]

sphery:

th1_: it's not a 3rd station--it's truncating the invalid data from the station field

[19:29:36]

th1_:

no

[19:29:48]

gbee:

wagnerrp: 9.1 on the richter scale, something like the largest earthquake ever recorded (richter scale is logarithmic, so in comparison todays earthquake was tiny, but in real terms it's still major)

[19:29:53]

sphery:

according to http://pastebin.com/m79b72c09 , it's impossible for it to be a 3rd one

[19:29:57]

th1_:

sphery, this has "TV 2" notice the space

[19:30:07]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp, Does that mean you don't plan to close it? Sphery does so love his chances to be mean, after all

[19:30:07]

th1_:

it's just that the same program is showing on all 3 channels at the same time

[19:30:23]

wagnerrp:

hell... a 7.3 around here, and we have major structural damage

[19:30:26]

th1_:

this one has a space after "TV"

[19:30:41]

wagnerrp:

hadnt intended to

[19:30:42]

th1_:

sphery, the others were "TV2 Ost" and "TV2 Ostjylland" this one is "TV 2" with a space

[19:31:10]

sphery:

th1_: Oops... I meant according to http://pastebin.com/m2f735768 , it's impossible for it to be a 3rd one: mysql -umythtv -p mythconverg -e "SELECT * FROM channel WHERE chanid IN ('8706', '8703');

[19:31:21]

wagnerrp:

which is really a problem with all the old brick houses, and a dormant fault line a couple hundred miles away

[19:31:44]

sphery:

th1_: oos, that was actually the query: mysql -umythtv -p mythconverg -e "SELECT * FROM oldrecorded WHERE starttime = '2009-09–03 04:05:00'\G" 2>&1 | tee rows.log

[19:31:59]

wagnerrp:

the midwest will collapse if that one ever goes off

[19:32:03]

sphery:

th1_: can you re-execute that one and re-pastebin the output

[19:32:17]

th1_:

sphery, 2secs

[19:32:43]

gbee:

last years China earthqake was only a 6.0 but killed something like 75,000

[19:32:52]

th1_:

http://pastebin.com/m28811f05

[19:33:50]

th1_:

sphery, ah

[19:33:52]

th1_:

but youre missing something

[19:33:55]

th1_:

the new error is for a different date

[19:34:18]

** gbee googled and notes that they revised that one upwards to 7.8 or .9 – can't trust those initial figures at all **

[19:34:23]

th1_:

sphery, same time but different day

[19:34:34]

sphery:

th1_: ah... I didn't notice the date :)

[19:34:45]

sphery:

I looked at the time, so assumed it was the same one

[19:35:09]

th1_:

sphery, check this out: http://pastebin.com/m1c06f44b

[19:35:15]

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[19:35:29]

th1_:

its the same but even worse :)

[19:35:32]

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[19:35:41]

th1_:

now its like 8 different clones of the same showing

[19:36:03]

sphery:

th1_: did you do: mysql -umythtv -p mythconverg -e "UPDATE oldrecorded SET station = 'TV2 / Ostjylland' WHERE station LIKE 'TV2 / %stjylland';"

[19:36:15]

th1_:

sphery, yeah

[19:36:26]

th1_:

but there are other regional ones with the same letters in :)

[19:36:34]

sphery:

OK, so now do the same with the "TV 2"

[19:37:07]

sphery:

th1_: mysql -umythtv -p mythconverg -e "UPDATE oldrecorded SET station = 'TV 2 / Ostjylland' WHERE station LIKE 'TV 2 / %stjylland';"

[19:37:14]

sphery:

th1_: mysql -umythtv -p mythconverg -e "UPDATE oldrecorded SET station = 'TV 2 / Ost' WHERE station LIKE 'TV 2 / %st';"

[19:37:44]

th1_:

Query OK, 0 rows affected (0.00 sec)

[19:37:58]

th1_:

and same for the second

[19:38:37]

sphery:

ah, extra space

[19:38:41]

th1_:

ah theres no space before the slash

[19:38:47]

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[19:38:51]

sphery:

th1_: mysql -umythtv -p mythconverg -e "UPDATE oldrecorded SET station = 'TV 2/Ostjylland' WHERE station LIKE 'TV 2/%stjylland';"

[19:38:58]

sphery:

th1_: mysql -umythtv -p mythconverg -e "UPDATE oldrecorded SET station = 'TV 2/Ost' WHERE station LIKE 'TV 2/%st';"

[19:39:04]

sphery:

yeah, too close to the same

[19:39:12]

th1_:

mysql> UPDATE oldrecorded SET station = 'TV 2/Ost' WHERE station LIKE 'TV 2/%st';

[19:39:12]

th1_:

ERROR 1062 (23000): Duplicate entry 'TV 2/Ost-2010-01–05 04:05:00-Teletubbies' for key 1

[19:40:30]

sphery:

now you get to look at Jan 5 data :)

[19:40:45]

sphery:

Other option is for you to just throw away your old config and start clean

[19:40:49]

sphery:

you'd do a partial restore

[19:41:08]

sphery:

but because you can only do a partial restore into the proper schema version, you 'd need to use a "blank" 0.21-fixes DB

[19:41:19]

th1_:

http://pastebin.com/m7c96cc0

[19:41:38]

th1_:

I'd rather try to fix this

[19:41:39]

sphery:

th1_: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/406111#406111 will fix the issue

[19:41:44]

sphery:

but you'll have to reconfigure

[19:41:50]

th1_:

nonono

[19:41:58]

th1_:

I have 5 tuners and LNB setups and whatnot

[19:42:01]

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[19:42:06]

sphery:

You're going to have to go through and fix /all/ of the corrupt data

[19:42:07]

th1_:

I'd much rather try to salvage this :)

[19:42:14]

sphery:

and when you do so, you're breaking all of the previous info

[19:42:25]

sphery:

breaking meaning that it no longer links properly

[19:42:32]

th1_:

I don't care about the old teletubbies recordings

[19:42:32]

sphery:

i.e. breaking foreign key references

[19:42:38]

th1_:

in fact I don't care about anything I recorded from that channel

[19:43:04]

th1_:

so I guess I could just delete all the clones where chanid is in the set of channels with that character and delete from recorded as well and then run find_orphans to clean them out

[19:44:12]

sphery:

well, this /does/ say that all of your channel configuration data is /already/ corrupt

[19:44:17]

sphery:

so you really need to fix that

[19:44:20]

sphery:

even if you get beyond this

[19:44:42]

sphery:

I *highly* recommend throwing away all the corruption and reconfiguring; http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/406111#406111

[19:45:07]

sphery:

If you don't, you may find that Myth doesn't work properly--and you may not notice for quite some time

[19:45:43]

sphery:

but please make sure if you manually edit data that you verify that any issues are actually issues in Myth-rather than issues caused by your corrupt data--before reporting bugs

[19:46:11]

th1_:

I'll just delete the channels from that network

[19:46:13]

th1_:

and rescan it

[19:46:22]

sphery:

I seriously believe that reconfiguring Myth--no matter how complex your video sources/channels--will be /much/ less time in the long run

[19:46:34]

sphery:

don't just do a DELETE FROM channel...

[19:46:43]

sphery:

that leaves all sorts of garbage--the kind that breaks Myth

[19:47:02]

sphery:

that's why I *highly* recommend the partial restore to a blank 0.21-fixes DB approach

[19:47:10]

th1_:

ok

[19:47:18]

th1_:

I'll see if fixing the remaining duplicates in oldrecorded solves it or not

[19:47:22]

th1_:

if there are more problems afterwards

[19:47:24]

th1_:

AH

[19:47:26]

th1_:

it passed now :)

[19:47:30]

th1_:

there was just one more like that

[19:47:32]

sphery:

well, you'll still need to fix your channels

[19:47:37]

sphery:

which means rescanning them, anyway

[19:47:44]

th1_:

yes but only for that network

[19:47:55]

sphery:

*or so you think

[19:47:56]

th1_:

that's the only one with danish characters

[19:48:07]

sphery:

having one piece of corrupt data isn't a big deal

[19:48:09]

th1_:

in the naames..

[19:48:20]

sphery:

having it spread throughout multiple tables means that all data in the db is suspect

[19:48:28]

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[19:48:36]

sphery:

but, it's your decision

[19:48:39]

th1_:

I've spent hours reorganizing my channel lists.. and going through hundreds of useless softporn chans to delete etc..

[19:48:45]

th1_:

I'd rather not have to do all that again

[19:49:06]

sphery:

well, it's likely that's exactly what caused the corruption that broke your data

[19:49:15]

sphery:

you said you had done it with a PHP script

[19:49:29]

sphery:

well, when you did, you didn't properly understand the data requirements and broke the data (long ago)

[19:49:31]

th1_:

yes but only renumbered them with what I think is a relatively safe script

[19:49:34]

sphery:

you didn't notice issues until today

[19:49:43]

th1_:

maybe it updated the UTF-8 characters wrong

[19:49:50]

th1_:

but those channels are only like 5 or 10 tops

[19:49:55]

sphery:

today you "fixed the data manually", but you still (and even I don't) fully understand all the data constraints

[19:49:59]

th1_:

all from the same couple of multiplexes on one satellite

[19:50:04]

sphery:

you think it worked, but in the future...

[19:50:18]

th1_:

I know what you're saying

[19:50:25]

th1_:

and if I do get anymore problems I will do what you said

[19:50:28]

sphery:

just saying that the only way to be sure is to throw away all the garbage

[19:50:34]

sphery:

it's your system, though, so ...

[19:51:10]

th1_:

well I'm not exaggerating there are literally thousands of channels I'd have to delete

[19:51:21]

th1_:

I have a pretty hefty satellite dish with 6 LNB's

[19:51:36]

th1_:

most of them receive only a few chans im interested in

[19:51:56]

th1_:

and I've reordered them all to fit my preferences.. hundreds of them

[19:52:07]

th1_:

only changed the display number except I may have screwed up the unicode

[19:52:11]

sphery:

yeah, I'll admit that we need to fix the channel scanning UI

[19:52:15]

th1_:

so if I delete all the chans with unicode in them I guess it will be better

[19:52:46]

sphery:

but knowing that my data is valid is far more important to me than attempting to take a shortcut that could make my system unstable

[19:52:47]

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[19:53:27]

sphery:

I'll admit to being a bit compulsive about my data quality

[19:53:50]

sphery:

probably comes from all the time I spent tracking down data corruption issues in other peoples databases :)

[19:53:54]

gizmobay:

I compile. I upgraded to 9.10 and I'm missing the /etc/init.d/mythtv-backend and there isn't a mythbackend.pid file.

[19:54:09]

gizmobay:

Where did they go?

[19:54:21]

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[19:54:29]

sphery:

gizmobay: "upstream" Myth doesn't provide distro-specific start scripts

[19:54:43]

sphery:

though there is an upstart script available in contrib

[19:54:50]

sphery:

think it's trunk, only

[19:54:58]

gizmobay:

okay, thanks

[19:55:14]

gizmobay:

I'm not sure how my BE is starting automatically

[19:55:41]

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[19:55:58]

sphery:

gizmobay: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/browser/trunk/myth . . . backend.conf + http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/browser/trunk/myth . . . ripts/README

[19:56:16]

th1_:

sphery, even if I did a full rescan I'd still risk causing corruptions again with my scripts.. and I really need to use them because using the UI to edit all those channels would literally take days

[19:57:53]

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[19:58:07]

sphery:

MythWeb's channel editor UI is actually much easier for mass channel editing

[19:58:22]

wagnerrp:

sphery: within limits

[19:58:31]

sphery:

and I think you can also delete a bunch of channels by just checking checkboxes and hitting delete

[19:58:51]

wagnerrp:

if you have too many channels, you break some data limit, and cannot make changes

[19:58:54]

th1_:

sphery, I'll try it once I get it running :) I can still go back and reset config if it's much nicer than the old one

[19:58:57]

sphery:

better than the mythtv-setup/mythfrontend is all I mean

[19:59:19]

th1_:

sphery, I'll keep your link handy for the partial import in case I decide on that

[19:59:38]

sphery:

that link only works with a 0.21-fixes backup

[20:00:05]

sphery:

from a 0.22-fixes backup you'd do: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Database_Backup_and_Restore , specifically http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Database_Backup_an . . . _of_a_backup

[20:00:09]

th1_:

ok

[20:00:17]

th1_:

but I'll go back to the old backup if I decide to do fresh 0.22

[20:00:27]

sphery:

that's probably the best approach

[20:00:44]

sphery:

that way, you'll know that you're not bringing over corrupt data that was corrupted by the upgrade

[20:01:18]

sphery:

anyway, good luck

[20:04:15]

th1_:

thans

[20:04:26]

th1_:

by the way is it possible in the new UI to have the mouse show?

[20:04:33]

th1_:

because when I do stuff onthe backend its over a vnc connection

[20:04:38]

th1_:

since it's a headless server

[20:06:35]

sphery:

I think there's a setting for it, but the mouse itself only works with some controls

[20:10:43]

th1_:

ok

[20:10:51]

th1_:

anyway it's much nicer already

[20:10:59]

th1_:

boxes etc. fit on the screen

[20:11:37]

sphery:

yeah, lots of improvements in 0.22

[20:12:18]

th1_:

I just waited until now because I have such a complex setup and I have 2 backends and 2 frontends

[20:12:28]

th1_:

so upgrading is a lot of work :)

[20:13:26]

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[20:13:44]

sphery:

yeah, understood

[20:13:56]

sphery:

don't tell anyone, but I haven't upgraded my 0.21-fixes production system, yet, either.

[20:14:03]

th1_:

hehe

[20:14:16]

sphery:

I'm doing a distro upgrade for all computers on my network and it just wasn't worth doing until I'd finished that.

[20:14:42]

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[20:14:53]

th1_:

I will probably reinstall my frontend. its a diskless box running ubuntu 9.04 with nfsroot

[20:15:08]

th1_:

but the backend is debian now and finally I can get rid of that nasty ubuntu chroot

[20:15:16]

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[20:15:16]

sphery:

otherwise, I upgrade Myth, then upgrade distro, then have to reinstall Myth on new distro

[20:15:20]

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[20:15:26]

th1_:

and the other backend for the dvb receivers is ubuntu now but I'll probably upgrade it to debian

[20:15:37]

th1_:

yes...

[20:15:56]

th1_:

the good thing with the chroot is that I could upgrade my debian several times without touching myth

[20:16:26]

sphery:

Isn't Debian with all the non-free/patent-questionable/badly-licensed stuff required to make Myth work just Ubuntu?

[20:17:01]

sphery:

I.e. by the time you put all that stuff on there (violating the basic principles of Debian), you've basically turned it into what Ubuntu is. :)

[20:17:23]

th1_:

:)

[20:17:27]

sphery:

(Though I admit that how you configure them is very different... I'm exaggerating here, but...)

[20:17:29]

th1_:

except all the crutft like startup etc.

[20:17:37]

sphery:

yeah

[20:17:39]

th1_:

ubuntu has lots of things that are not useful for a server but only a desktop

[20:17:58]

sphery:

Like NetworkMangler :)

[20:18:00]

th1_:

I'm not using debian for religious reasons but because it's the best server OS imho

[20:18:09]

th1_:

I use ubuntu on my desktop and laptop

[20:18:22]

th1_:

yeah but NetMan is nice on the laptop

[20:18:25]

th1_:

for wifi management

[20:18:35]

sphery:

true

[20:19:10]

syamajala:

i got fed up with mythbuntu and am switching my myth box to archlinux

[20:19:23]

th1_:

my server runs loads of other things than myth

[20:19:39]

sphery:

I've noticed Arch getting much more popular recently... Wonder why that is.

[20:19:52]

th1_:

debian is the most allround server distro and now with added benefit of the nice guys at debian-multimedia.org doing mythtv in an up to date version

[20:20:13]

wagnerrp:

arguably, your belief that debian is the 'best server OS' could be termed a religious reason

[20:20:15]

th1_:

I think Arch is clean and simple and pretty ideal for a one-job horse like myth

[20:20:23]

th1_:

wagnerrp, it could ;)

[20:20:27]

sphery:

funny part is that the whole reason Debian dropped glibc is because they felt that Ulrich Drepper only cared about the server

[20:20:31]

syamajala:

i started using arch in 2005 when 0.7 came out

[20:21:06]

sphery:

I may have to take a look at Arch

[20:21:14]

th1_:

the good thing about debian is that there are so many packages for it

[20:21:30]

th1_:

and that so many people use it that it's well supported with backports etc.

[20:23:29]

gizmobay:

Anyone know what the mythtv-status script is for in /etc/init.d?

[20:25:06]

sphery:

it's a 3rd party script that hits the database and the backend status port and various other things and directly reads raw data and attempts to interpret it in such a way that it can put a message in your /etc/issue* that tells you what Myth is doing when you log in

[20:25:11]

sphery:

or something like that

[20:25:37]

gizmobay:

thanks

[20:25:54]

sphery:

It /really/ needs to be rewritten to use the Python bindings that wagnerrp has made so nice rather than trying to do all that stuff with raw data

[20:26:07]

wagnerrp:

whats that?

[20:26:25]

wagnerrp:

oh, mythtv-status

[20:26:26]

gizmobay:

I can't figure out how my BE is starting on boot automatically

[20:26:37]

wagnerrp:

i *think* it only polls the XML data

[20:26:58]

wagnerrp:

so arguably, it should get consumed by the python bindings (and perl for that matter)

[20:27:22]

sphery:

I'm pretty sure there are parts doing other things--and bad things

[20:27:28]

gizmobay:

my system OS has been upgraded and went from packages to compile

[20:27:30]

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[20:27:48]

gizmobay:

I can't figure out what/who's starting my BE

[20:27:52]

sphery:

gizmobay: probably the left over start stuff from the previously-installed packages

[20:28:04]

sphery:

though you probably know that and are wondering what, specifically...

[20:28:57]

gizmobay:

yes, true LOL

[20:29:27]

gizmobay:

I always thought it was monit

[20:29:28]

wagnerrp:

sphery: on first glance, its not pulling in any modules that would allow it to access the database or mythproto sockets

[20:31:35]

wagnerrp:

ah, it does access the perl/mythtv bindings

[20:32:06]

sphery:

I don't remember the details, but I was pretty sure from descriptions and the author's comments on the list that it's doing some bad things

[20:33:00]

sphery:

The fact that the last update was Jul 30, 2008, also speaks to its safety, IMHO... http://www.etc.gen.nz/projects/mythtv/tarballs/

[20:36:16]

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[20:37:07]

sid3windr:

sphery: only checks the xml returned by the backend

[20:37:12]

sid3windr:

(just went over the source – again)

[20:37:22]

wagnerrp:

http://localhost:6544/xml is just an xml version of the information on the backend status page?

[20:37:26]

sid3windr:

that xml is huge in and by itself =)

[20:37:37]

gizmobay:

looks like the /etc/init/mythtv-backend.conf is starting the BE on boot

[20:37:51]

wagnerrp:

sid3windr: not quite, it does poll a handful of mythproto queries

[20:37:58]

sid3windr:

uhh

[20:38:01]

sid3windr:

did I miss those?

[20:38:09]

sid3windr:

or am I running a different version

[20:38:16]

wagnerrp:

QUERY_GETALLPENDING and QUERY_RECORDINGS

[20:38:26]

wagnerrp:

both read-only and benign

[20:38:29]

sid3windr:

oh right

[20:38:37]

wagnerrp:

i dont see what else it could be doing that might be 'bad'

[20:38:48]

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[20:38:51]

sid3windr:

that's using the Myth Perl bindings though

[20:38:52]

sid3windr:

hehe

[20:38:52]

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[20:38:59]

sid3windr:

so yea, doesnt look too bad

[20:39:13]

sid3windr:

if you don't give it perl api it only does the xml

[20:39:32]

wagnerrp:

right

[20:40:41]

sphery:

it's the "interpreting" of the data that's bad

[20:40:48]

sphery:

because we change Myth

[20:41:05]

iamlindoro___ is now known as iamlindoro

[20:41:18]

sphery:

and anything external to myth that's interpreting data must be updated to properly interpret the data

[20:41:38]

sphery:

if it were all done through bindings, it would be great--the bindings would be updated to properly interpret data when things changes

[20:41:51]

sphery:

but since it's a hodge-podge of different things...

[20:42:00]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: i would consider that a ban-able offense

[20:42:16]

iamlindoro:

wazzat?

[20:42:21]

wagnerrp:

oh, nevermind

[20:42:28]

wagnerrp:

i didnt see the block in recent changed

[20:42:29]

wagnerrp:

changes

[20:42:42]

iamlindoro:

yeah

[20:43:18]

sphery:

heh, like the block msg

[20:43:40]

iamlindoro:

;)

[20:43:44]

wagnerrp:

whats amusing is he didnt even seem to know how to work mediawiki

[20:44:08]

sphery:

would have made more sense to use an actual word as the link

[20:44:18]

sphery:

meaning a word that makes sense in context

[20:44:34]

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[20:44:57]

sphery:

amazingly fast response, btw

[20:45:05]

** iamlindoro is on it **

[20:45:14]

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[20:45:17]

syamajala:

woot sound works again!

[20:45:17]

iamlindoro:

for example, I am chatting with you while pedaling ~23 MPH

[20:45:18]

sphery:

better than the wikipedia guys

[20:45:26]

wagnerrp:

impressive

[20:45:29]

sphery:

heh, only 23

[20:47:13]

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[20:48:38]

wagnerrp:

you know, skd5aner's idea could be implemented fairly easily in mythvideo

[20:48:56]

th1_:

sphery, that new channel editor gui in mythweb is almost exactly like my php script ;) only my php script is much leaner so doesn't hang firefox with my thousands of channels

[20:49:15]

sphery:

heh, yeah, it's pretty basic in MW

[20:49:17]

xris:

"new channel editor gui"?

[20:49:21]

iamlindoro:

fr various values of new

[20:49:22]

xris:

er, "new" ?

[20:49:22]

wagnerrp:

just make the directory scanner 'ghost' videos instead of actually deleting them

[20:49:26]

sphery:

xris: new to him :)

[20:49:32]

sphery:

(or her?)

[20:49:36]

th1_:

him

[20:49:36]

wagnerrp:

and have it as another filter

[20:49:49]

th1_:

its crashed my ffox :)

[20:49:53]

xris:

th1_: submit a patch and wait the 9 or so months for me and/or kormoc to have time to fix it. :)

[20:49:55]

sphery:

heh, just didn't want to be accused of being sexist

[20:50:03]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp, why not just filter by watched?

[20:50:04]

wagnerrp:

leave it up to an external script to populate videometadata with ghost entries

[20:50:05]

th1_:

xris, I guess I'll just use my simple phpscript

[20:50:12]

th1_:

but I have to upgrade it to the db changes

[20:50:28]

wagnerrp:

of course that wouldnt do much for recordings

[20:50:34]

xris:

th1_: mythweb probably needs to be upgraded, too. kormoc and I have been too busy on non-myth stuff for way too long...

[20:50:45]

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[20:50:48]

wagnerrp:

so it would probably be of limited use in mythvideo

[20:50:53]

th1_:

xris, ah..

[20:51:10]

th1_:

mythweb could be the ultimate thing really

[20:51:10]

sphery:

xris: I hope when the settings rework goes in, MW will get an immediate and 0-effort upgrade for settings (including channel scans)

[20:51:25]

th1_:

in fact it could be a full frontend for things like netbooks if it was enhanced with flash etc.

[20:51:36]

sphery:

as the plan that's been proposed is all HTTP-based

[20:51:37]

** kormoc blinks **

[20:51:51]

Dibblah:

th1_: Flash sucks for full-screen video.

[20:51:58]

kormoc:

We have flash video now

[20:52:01]

sphery:

agreed

[20:52:10]

th1_:

Dibblah, yeah but the flash video is a bit broken

[20:52:12]

wagnerrp:

s/for full-screen video.//

[20:52:12]

sphery:

Flash needs to GDIAF

[20:52:13]

Dibblah:

Flash sucks for scaled anything.

[20:52:14]

th1_:

at least on my system

[20:52:24]

Dibblah:

No, it's a limitation of flash.

[20:52:24]

sphery:

wagnerrp: +1

[20:52:41]

th1_:

the good thing about flash is: friend visits with laptop. connects to my wifi. types mythtv in his browser, and can watch tv in his room

[20:52:45]

Dibblah:

It has essentially no hardware accel of scaling.

[20:52:45]

xris:

th1_: flash video in the open source world sucks.... there are no good on-the-fly encoders that can support seeking

[20:52:59]

Dibblah:

xris: It's not limited to Linux.

[20:53:07]

Dibblah:

It sucks on Windows too.

[20:53:08]

th1_:

dunno if there are any alternatives that don't require closed source plugins

[20:53:18]

xris:

th1_: serverside, not client

[20:53:33]

xris:

it's the encoders/streaming servers that are the problem more than the client.

[20:53:41]

kormoc:

Aye

[20:53:49]

kormoc:

we're sorta faking it as we're encoding on the fly

[20:53:56]

th1_:

but the use case for a plugin-free webbased client is very compelling

[20:53:57]

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[20:54:06]

** kormoc blinks **

[20:54:08]

th1_:

any laptop/pc windows or linux or mac could be used

[20:54:11]

xris:

could just use <video> and switch everything to theora

[20:54:14]

th1_:

to connect to myth infrastructure

[20:54:21]

kormoc:

theora isn't supported in safari or IE

[20:54:23]

kormoc:

sadly

[20:54:25]

sphery:

the video tag would be much better

[20:54:30]

kormoc:

th1_: has that now...

[20:54:32]

xris:

kormoc: neither is <video>

[20:54:32]

sphery:

and who cares about IE/Safari :)

[20:54:35]

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[20:54:35]

xris:

since theora is part of that spec.

[20:54:44]

kormoc:

xris: sadly, it's not part of the spec anymore

[20:54:53]

xris:

oh, what was it replaced with?

[20:54:55]

kormoc:

xris: they removed recommending any specific codec from the spec

[20:54:56]

sphery:

yeah, they ripped out specific recommendations for CODEC

[20:55:01]

xris:

oh, lovely

[20:55:02]

sphery:

because they couldn't make everyone happy

[20:55:08]

sphery:

so, makes it mostly useless

[20:55:12]

wagnerrp:

then what good is the spec if theres no standard?

[20:55:13]

sphery:

(at least for cross-browser use)

[20:55:15]

xris:

well, that's good... since theora is a weird thing to reqire.. but no standard is even worse

[20:55:33]

xris:

everything will end up being drm-laden wmv

[20:55:33]

wagnerrp:

dirac!

[20:55:38]

th1_:

beh my frontend box has to be upgraded first to jaunty and then to karmic :(

[20:55:38]

kormoc:

Apple wanted h264, ff wanted theory, ie wants some wmv...

[20:55:43]

sphery:

patents/royalties/... killed the standardization of a CODEC

[20:55:46]

Dagmar:

Theora's one of the few things they could require that wouldn't immediately mean money has to change hands

[20:55:49]

th1_:

I bet that will find a way to break over nfs

[20:56:16]

wagnerrp:

th1_: you could start scratch

[20:56:21]

wagnerrp:

probably in less time

[20:56:22]

kormoc:

th1_: right now your visitors can watch via the ASX link in vlc/any asx compatable media player just fine without any plugins

[20:56:45]

th1_:

kormoc, for some reason it hangs badly in winamp and wmp and zplayer

[20:56:53]

wagnerrp:

yeah, you probably dont want visitors using flash

[20:57:03]

kormoc:

I know it works perfectly fine with vlc and mplayer

[20:57:22]

wagnerrp:

at least my web server isnt fast enough to do HD mpeg2 --> sorensen in real time

[20:57:23]

th1_:

I'll try it with vlc right now

[20:57:28]

kormoc:

if you can figure out why it's hanging in winamp/wmp/zplayer, we can fix it, but we're fully RFC compliant right now

[20:58:00]

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[20:58:10]

th1_:

kormoc, it works perfectly in vlc

[20:58:15]

th1_:

then I guess I'll just use that ;)

[20:58:40]

** wagnerrp just shares the recordings over samba **

[20:58:51]

** xris uses mythfrontend. :) **

[20:58:54]

th1_:

kormoc, only downside its not deinterlaced

[20:59:03]

kormoc:

VLC has deinterlacing plugins

[20:59:07]

th1_:

lol I use mythfrontend too but not on windows box because it craps out badly

[20:59:10]

xris:

th1_: what's this "interlaced" thing you speak of? ;)

[20:59:17]

wagnerrp:

yeah, but its already scaled... cant really deint after that

[20:59:30]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: the ASX streaming is a raw stream, untouched

[20:59:42]

wagnerrp:

oh, right

[20:59:44]

xris:

asx is just an xml file with a URL in it to download the recording

[20:59:44]

th1_:

xris, its gone now with Deinterlace->Bob in vlc

[20:59:58]

wagnerrp:

thought he was talking about the flash/ffmpeg

[20:59:58]

th1_:

and it wors with seeking as well

[21:00:07]

xris:

some players have issues if you use https and/or any form of auth on your mythweb

[21:00:19]

th1_:

I've disabled all of that

[21:00:34]

th1_:

but even then it doesn't work in winamp or wmp or zplayer

[21:00:41]

th1_:

but I don't care because vlc is better than those anyway

[21:00:47]

th1_:

at least for video

[21:00:54]

wagnerrp:

but it looks fugly

[21:01:02]

wagnerrp:

and the other two are only as good as their supplied codecs

[21:01:19]

th1_:

yes

[21:01:24]

wagnerrp:

if you dont fill out directshow (or otherwise install ffdshow), they wont do anything

[21:01:29]

th1_:

but I have some "CCCP community codec pack" installed

[21:01:33]

kormoc:

th1_: if you want to debug the others, just use wireshark to get the http requests/offsets/etc and see what's up

[21:01:36]

th1_:

it plays all my video files

[21:01:44]

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[21:01:55]

wagnerrp:

CCCP is little more than ffdshow and vobsub

[21:01:56]

th1_:

kormoc, maybe later right now I'm upgrading all my production myth infrastructure to 0.22 :)

[21:01:56]

kormoc:

likely what's going on is they're sending a range request that returns 0 bytes and expecting one

[21:02:29]

wagnerrp:

hardly a 'codec pack'

[21:03:10]

th1_:

wagnerrp, I don't know much about Windows

[21:03:19]

th1_:

only that I had to install that to watch my xvid etc... ;)

[21:03:21]

kormoc:

I need to simply my life, reduce my expenditures and go full consulting, get some free time back again

[21:03:34]

wagnerrp:

th1_: if you installed zoomplayer, no you didnt

[21:03:55]

th1_:

wagnerrp, I think I installed it because I googled that it was good for playing certain streams

[21:04:01]

th1_:

but I can't remember exactly

[21:04:11]

th1_:

it was just associated with .asx :)

[21:04:17]

wagnerrp:

zoomplayer will automatically download and install everything that comes with cccp and more

[21:05:06]

th1_:

tbh I'd prefer to just get myth to work on my windows box

[21:05:13]

th1_:

which I'll try when my other machines are working on .22

[21:05:17]

th1_:

when I tried with .21 it was misery though

[21:05:23]

wagnerrp:

theres a pre-compiled package for that, but ive not managed to get that to run

[21:05:33]

th1_:

same here but that was with .21

[21:05:34]

wagnerrp:

3rd party, nothing official

[21:05:40]

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[21:10:31]

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[21:12:08]

xris:

and doubt there will ever be anything official. no $$ to buy rights to use certain codecs

[21:12:15]

xris:

which we'd have to do in order to distribute a binary

[21:14:20]

th1_:

it's not important as long as some people package it up

[21:14:30]

th1_:

anyway it's less support

[21:14:37]

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[21:15:02]

th1_:

even with $$ the license terms for the codecs probably wouldn't be gpl compatible

[21:15:33]

wagnerrp:

theyre GPL implementations of the codec

[21:15:58]

th1_:

yeah but buying the patent rights for exactly what?

[21:15:59]

wagnerrp:

you just need a license to distribute that implementation

[21:16:12]

th1_:

for those who download an official myth distro? or for everyone who uses the GPL code distributed with it?

[21:16:13]

wagnerrp:

the right to produce software with that codec

[21:16:15]

th1_:

that's the Novell issue

[21:16:22]

th1_:

and open source people would go berserk

[21:16:46]

wagnerrp:

currently, mythtv does not include code for any such licensed codecs

[21:16:48]

xris:

wagnerrp: in the debian/redhat argument, some code released under the gpl is not actually compatible with the gpl due to patent issues (e.g. mp3)

[21:17:06]

wagnerrp:

it merely hooks into other dependent libraries

[21:17:09]

wagnerrp:

xris: oh

[21:17:13]

syamajala:

i'm having a weird problem

[21:17:39]

syamajala:

every time i reboot my capture cards switch the device they are under, under /dev

[21:17:41]

th1_:

xris, its still compatible with the GPL as long as you distribute the source

[21:17:44]

xris:

wagnerrp: the mp3 thing is a license interpretation issue that hasn't actually been tested in law. companies like red hat have chosen to follow the side of caution.

[21:17:58]

kormoc:

syamajala: so write a udev rule or two to fix it

[21:17:58]

wagnerrp:

syamajala: are they identical cards?

[21:18:04]

syamajala:

no

[21:18:06]

xris:

th1_: no. gpl has a "no patent-encumbered formats" clause in it...

[21:18:14]

th1_:

only v3

[21:18:24]

syamajala:

one is a bttv, another ivtv, and a third something else

[21:18:31]

wagnerrp:

then do what kormoc said

[21:18:55]

wagnerrp:

if they were identical... theres not much you could do

[21:18:56]

xris:

th1_: I'm not super familiar with either issue. I just know that some groups see certain codecs as potential problems.

[21:19:16]

kormoc:

th1_: not true, http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-2.0.html "We wish to avoid the danger that redistributors of a free program will individually obtain patent licenses, in effect making the program proprietary. To prevent this, we have made it clear that any patent must be licensed for everyone's free use or not licensed at all."

[21:19:21]

th1_:

xris, the main issue is that even with money to buy rights to codecs the problem wouldn't really go away

[21:20:13]

th1_:

right kormoc

[21:20:17]

xris:

correct

[21:20:37]

th1_:

that's what I meant when I said any patent license myth.org might buy would probably not be gpl compatible

[21:20:38]

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[21:20:49]

th1_:

because it would not be a blanket license for anyone who uses the software..

[21:21:01]

xris:

th1_: also means that the mp3 issue is present in v2

[21:21:10]

kormoc:

I was just pointing out that v2 also specified the no patent-encumbered code clause

[21:21:33]

th1_:

it would have to be like the intel firmware license http://ipw2100.sourceforge.net/firmware.php?fid=4

[21:21:40]

xris:

that statement doesn't talk about licensing the use of a patent for a specific distribution. it talks about the patent itself. it's not compatible if the patent is "ok for some users and not others"

[21:22:02]

th1_:

so the patent license would have to cover everyone who used the software

[21:22:06]

xris:

like mp3 decoding which is free for free apps, but costs money if you charge for your app, or your app is a hardware device

[21:22:09]

th1_:

even after modifying it or taking parts of it out

[21:22:34]

kormoc:

th1_: for it to be gpl compliment (v2 and v3) it can't restrict at all (for your users or not)

[21:22:50]

th1_:

kormoc, and that's why I don't think it would be possible to obtain such a license

[21:23:02]

th1_:

unless you'd pay millions of dollars for it

[21:23:21]

th1_:

because it'd in effect be a global patent license to use the patent with any gpl software for anyone

[21:23:30]

kormoc:

actually

[21:23:44]

kormoc:

it's a patent license to use it with anything for anyone, not only with gpl software

[21:24:01]

th1_:

you might conceivably restrict it to gpl software

[21:24:07]

th1_:

without violating the gpl

[21:24:36]

Dagmar:

Maybe you should read that whole thing before speculating like this

[21:24:37]

kormoc:

negative

[21:24:38]

th1_:

but IANAL and it's complicated..

[21:25:09]

th1_:

in the end it'd be the courts that decide and might even decide differently in different countries

[21:25:10]

kormoc:

it's a blanket statement saying it has to be free to all regardless of the license or just not patented

[21:25:12]

xris:

th1_: it's not about the specific patent license, it's about *how* the patent is licensed

[21:26:10]

th1_:

only insofar as it relates to "The Program"

[21:26:15]

th1_:

again, as I read it

[21:26:22]

xris:

using patented code is not gpl compatible if the patent owner places *any* restrictions on the patent itself.. which might even include allowances like "this patent is free for use in open source software"

[21:26:29]

kormoc:

Speaking of the GPL, the FSF is starting a campaign to oppose the Selective Output Control waiver soon.

[21:26:48]

kormoc:

That's your FSF membership at work folks!

[21:26:53]

th1_:

nice

[21:27:06]

** xris forgets what that's about **

[21:27:24]

iamlindoro:

turning off component video at will

[21:27:29]

xris:

oh, analog hole plugging

[21:27:33]

iamlindoro:

yup

[21:27:45]

th1_:

FSF does many good things

[21:27:45]

xris:

hurray for those with no digital device.

[21:27:50]

th1_:

DRM campaign has had an effect

[21:27:59]

kormoc:

th1_: which is why you're a member I'm sure

[21:28:07]

th1_:

have been since 2006

[21:28:26]

th1_:

I even donated $1000 a few years back when they started the patent campaign after all the microsoft/novell bs

[21:29:32]

syamajala:

hmm

[21:29:35]

th1_:

got a nice signed letter from Peter Brown in return :)

[21:30:43]

Dagmar:

The selectable output control thing is just retarded

[21:30:53]

xris:

so is drm in general

[21:31:06]

xris:

like the crap silicondust has to deal with to get cablecard support

[21:31:13]

Dagmar:

Well, I still think the people responsible for even asking for that waiver should be flogged.

[21:31:35]

Dagmar:

Their initial argument was that it would allow them to open up new markets, so people could watch movies sooner

[21:31:43]

th1_:

tbh I don't care about it because I never use technology that supports DRM

[21:31:57]

Dagmar:

...which is questionable at best. Asking a gov't agency to make new rules to _create_ a market for you is bullshit.

[21:32:04]

th1_:

when all music was drm protected I pirated it. now that I can buy mp3's I do that legally.

[21:32:07]

xris:

th1_: so you're still using analog tv?

[21:32:07]

Dagmar:

But it gets _better_.

[21:32:08]

th1_:

the same with movies

[21:32:26]

th1_:

xris, in UK

[21:32:28]

xris:

and vhs?

[21:32:30]

Dagmar:

The way they worded it, analog output would be disabled until the content was available for sale on DVD

[21:32:30]

th1_:

there is freeview and freesat

[21:32:46]

Dagmar:

...which would mean NOT just enabling a new market of first run movies to homes like they claimed.

[21:32:55]

xris:

th1_: "technology that supports DRM"... dvd player supports macrovision, which is drm, hdmi supports drm, etc....

[21:33:04]

xris:

actually, vhs has macrovision, too....

[21:33:05]

th1_:

I don't own a DVD player

[21:33:08]

wagnerrp:

macrovision is not DRM

[21:33:10]

Dagmar:

It would have meant just about absolutely everything would have the analog ports turned off until it was well into reruns

[21:33:23]

xris:

wagnerrp: well, probably, true. it's copy protection.

[21:33:25]

th1_:

sometimes I rip DVD's on my MythCenter

[21:33:27]

Dagmar:

....because they don't start selling DVDs of a show until some time after the entire season is over with.

[21:33:28]

xris:

depends on how you define drm

[21:33:32]

th1_:

but that's now legal in europe

[21:33:38]

th1_:

as long as you own the dvd and its for your own use

[21:33:50]

xris:

th1_: was more just pointing out the grammatical error in your statement.

[21:33:56]

th1_:

ok :)

[21:34:01]

Dagmar:

So while they looked like they were asking for a new market that would be useful, they were really asking for the ability to disable the analog output for about 95% of the television out there.

[21:34:06]

xris:

or playing on the varied meanings of "support"

[21:34:06]

th1_:

either way we agree on the principles

[21:34:36]

Dagmar:

It was almost as bad as the net neutrality bill that _wasn't_ actually net neutrality

[21:36:10]

xris:

ok, time to go home. later.

[21:38:35]

syamajala:

ok i think i should be good

[21:38:42]

syamajala:

guess the only way to be sure is to reboot

[21:39:34]

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[21:40:16]

syamajala:

yeah everything looks ok

[21:40:33]

jams:

need a fedora and debian user help: on your system where is "cat" and "more" located ?

[21:40:41]

jams:

which cat , which more

[21:40:59]

Dagmar:

They'll generally be in /usr/bin... Why do you ask?

[21:41:15]

th1_:

jams, they are in /bin on debian

[21:41:15]

jams:

because not all distros locate them in /usr/bin

[21:41:23]

jams:

thanks th1_

[21:41:31]

Dagmar:

It depends on how they're compiled

[21:41:33]

jams:

pretty sure redhat/fedora is /usr/bin

[21:41:37]

Dagmar:

If they were compiled statically, they'll be in /bin

[21:41:38]

kormoc:

jams: /bin for fedora

[21:41:45]

jams:

o /bin

[21:41:49]

jams:

cool

[21:41:50]

Dagmar:

Why does it even matter tho?

[21:41:57]

kormoc:

or rather, Centos

[21:42:04]

kormoc:

my mistake, I thought that box was fedora

[21:42:05]

th1_:

the idea is that essential binaries should go in /bin because /usr might be on a separate file system that's mounted later during the boot process

[21:42:17]

th1_:

dunno about more but cat is certainly essential to boot

[21:42:41]

Dagmar:

THey go there not because they're "essential" but because if they're using shared libs you have a choice:

[21:43:04]

Dagmar:

You can make /lib monstrously huge, or you can keep the option of having a remote /usr open

[21:43:10]

jams:

just looking for a final reasonable fallback before giving up

[21:43:20]

Dagmar:

You should not have to _search_ for them

[21:43:29]

Dagmar:

You should rely on $PATH being set to something non-retarded.

[21:44:57]

Dagmar:

You don't want /lib to be huge if you're trying to use an initrd

[21:45:47]

sphery:

in some cases, they go in /bin because they're used by scripts, etc, that execute before all file systems are mounted--such as the file system containing /usr

[21:47:09]

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[21:47:51]

Dagmar:

I suppose this is a lot more obvious if one had dealt with this stuff when shared libs were still relatively new

[21:49:51]

jams:

kormoc- same thing apply for gentoo?

[21:50:50]

QED__ is now known as christ_

[21:51:05]

wagnerrp:

he has returned!

[21:51:31]

jams:

lol

[21:52:14]

Dagmar:

I'm serious. Don't search for them and then attempt to use an absolute path. That will be a waste of time.

[21:52:26]

beata:

any guess as to why my sound would stop working after escaping out of a recording? I checked alsamixer and evrything is unmuted

[21:52:35]

sphery:

wagnerrp: seems that what was to be proved is now proven

[21:53:01]

Dagmar:

PATH functions as both a help to shell users, and a way for the administrator to indicate _which location for binaries should be the preferred one_

[21:53:19]

Dagmar:

A system may well have more than one version of those around

[21:54:17]

sphery:

and a way for a malicious person to cause a user to execute the wrong app

[21:54:26]

Dagmar:

Solaris being a great example, because they've got their own versions of just about anything, but if you want less hassle you generally install GNU tools into a different prefix and then change the PATH

[21:54:51]

Dagmar:

sphery: This is why protected directories that users can't tamper with always go _first_ into the PATH

[21:55:10]

JEDIDIAH__:

Solaris also has a mixed BSD/SysV heritage and about 4 different versions of their own for core tools.

[21:55:20]

sphery:

right... but that doesn't prevent some script or something the user executed previously in the environment from changing the PATH

[21:55:38]

Dagmar:

If they can do that they don't really _need_ to give you malicious binaries

[21:55:44]

sphery:

JEDIDIAH__: you mean Solaris is quad-core! Nice.

[21:56:23]

wagnerrp:

sphery: im of the opinion you shouldnt go out of your way to help a user who is off tinkering with their PATH

[21:56:48]

Dagmar:

If you're going to worry about the stuff in path, then you need to just cut to the chase and start checking md5sum/sha1 checksums against a database of the ones used by the distro

[21:56:59]

wagnerrp:

jams: you can always just give up and include a static copy of busybox

[21:57:15]

Dagmar:

jams: Are you aiming for a GNU/Linux environment?

[21:57:18]

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[21:57:30]

Dagmar:

If that's the case you want to call `less` instead of `more` anyway

[21:57:45]

sphery:

wagnerrp: I'm just thinking that checking to ensure that the binary you execute is in one of the generally-safe paths is not a bad idea

[21:57:56]

sphery:

after all, we do exactly that for a lot of things in Myth

[21:58:06]

Dagmar:

Calling `more` may well entail the binary behaving like older non-GNU more, which doesn't generally let you do :-based regexp searches, for one thing

[21:58:33]

Dagmar:

sphery: Not for things that are generally supposed to be on the system in the first place

[21:59:23]

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[21:59:25]

jams:

wagnerrp- yeah could use "echo" to implement all the core commands.

[21:59:28]

Dagmar:

Particularly since a bunch of them may well be shell built-ins

[21:59:38]

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[21:59:46]

sphery:

Dagmar: so you're saying just assume PATH is good and execute gzip--wherever it happens to execute

[21:59:50]

Dagmar:

Yes.

[22:00:06]

Dagmar:

If something tampered with PATH, you've already lost

[22:00:09]

jams:

Dagmar- it's not linux only, Having a path is not a sure thing. And on some systems more is less and less is more

[22:00:42]

Dagmar:

jams: Dude you're talking to someone who writes code that he expects to work on _any_ Unix because I've frequently _had_ to run it on a bunch of different ones

[22:00:47]

syamajala:

guess my udev rules didn't work after all

[22:00:49]

syamajala:

they changed again

[22:00:59]

Dagmar:

Having a PATH *is* a sure thing

[22:01:02]

sphery:

so that when a user is running mythbackend as root and someone hacks their system to change PATH (perhaps only in the mythbackend start script) to refer to a different dir first, then root executes gzip to compress a backup and it Does Bad Things, that's not something anyone should be concerned about because a) gzip should exist on systems and b) PATH will alway be right?

[22:01:05]

Dagmar:

Without it, you're working on basically, a broken systsem

[22:01:22]

wagnerrp:

syamajala: generally you write a rule to symlink to some new node, one the system wouldnt normally use

[22:01:36]

wagnerrp:

like /dev/my_crappy_framegrabber

[22:01:36]

Dagmar:

sphery: 1. The "hacker" is an idiot

[22:01:41]

Dagmar:

I dont' think we need a 2.

[22:01:50]

sphery:

I fully admit that refusing to run gzip if it's not in /bin or /usr/bin is /not/ security, but...

[22:02:05]

Dagmar:

If they managed to remotely change the PATH they could just as easily go ahead and replace whatever binary on the system they want

[22:02:54]

sphery:

yes, because the /etc/{,rc.d/}init.d/mythbackend script /always/ uses the exact same filesystem permissions as every other file on the filesystem

[22:03:03]

Dagmar:

There's no reason why someone who exploited mythbackend to change it's init script wouldn't be able to change any other binary on the sytsem they wanted

[22:03:16]

sphery:

they don't have to change it

[22:03:18]

Dagmar:

It's a lot more likely they'd just slap a new uid 0 account into the password file

[22:03:33]

sphery:

just drop a script in $HOME/.my-bad-bin/gzip that does bad things

[22:03:45]

Dagmar:

Init scripts don't live in areas that can be modified by uids other than root for this reason

[22:04:20]

sphery:

Please tell all the users who have borked filesystems that are in here asking for help exactly that

[22:04:32]

Dagmar:

To be perfectly honest, they can't afford my rates

[22:04:37]

sphery:

What the distro gives users is /not/ necessarily what the user is using

[22:04:44]

Dagmar:

You know I've held a CISSP right?

[22:04:56]

sphery:

OK... I won't argue.

[22:04:57]

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[22:05:20]

Dagmar:

User accounts need to trust things that come out of root-only-modifiable space

[22:05:31]

Dagmar:

Otherwise they might as well just bring in their own copies of every binary

[22:06:02]

Dagmar:

...because they can't trust anything at that point, and if you can't trust anything then you probably shouldn't be running anything on that system in the first place.

[22:06:49]

syamajala:

hmm

[22:06:56]

syamajala:

my rules aren't working

[22:07:00]

syamajala:

i changed it to symlink

[22:07:10]

syamajala:

but when i restart udevd /dev isn't being updated

[22:07:47]

sphery:

cold plugging doesn't happen on every udevd restart...

[22:09:13]

syamajala:

oh

[22:09:17]

syamajala:

now its working

[22:09:45]

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[22:10:51]

syamajala:

hmm

[22:11:16]

syamajala:

i think i might need rules for vbi, and audio too though

[22:11:31]

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[22:11:41]

Josh____:

Hmm, I think I found my problem. although I'm not sure of the solution.

[22:11:59]

wagnerrp:

VBI? you probably arent using it.... audio? only for framegrabbers

[22:12:42]

Josh____:

If I save a stream from my HDhomerun to my backend (using hdhomerun_config). I can watch the output of the command to get realtime network data loss.

[22:12:59]

syamajala:

actually your right

[22:13:23]

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[22:13:33]

Josh____:

If I'm saving a stream to the backend, and at the same time, send a stream (using mythtv) to any one of my remote frontends, I immediately get packet loss on the hdhomerun_config stream.

[22:14:07]

Josh____:

it's almost as if my NIC on the backend can't keep up with simultaneously sending & recieving a video stream.

[22:14:10]

paras:

how can i see what items are in the current playlisst ?

[22:16:00]

Josh____:

I've got three PCI network cards, but I can't seem to find one that fixes the problem. They're all connecting at a link speed of 100 Mbit. Shouldnt 100Mbit be sufficiant to handle two TS streams simultaneously?

[22:16:05]

tank-man:

creating a huge playlist?

[22:16:25]

paras:

not much, but i'd like to see the order they will be played

[22:17:03]

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[22:18:41]

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[22:19:36]

Josh____:

"A full channel mux runs about 25Mbit/s, depending on the country, so 4 HDHomeRun tuners running at full load would saturate a 100Mbit network."

[22:19:51]

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[22:19:56]

mynameisdeleted:

hi

[22:20:06]

mynameisdeleted:

is ther a setting I need to record to other than the root drive

[22:20:15]

mynameisdeleted:

or a network drive

[22:20:29]

mynameisdeleted:

by default if I set to a mounted dir in anythign other than default file system it failes to record

[22:20:33]

Josh____:

I've only got one HDHomerun. Is there any chance the mythtv libhdhomerun is not specifying a single channel mux and rather sending the entire transport stream?

[22:20:39]

mynameisdeleted:

is this wrong owner of dir maybe?

[22:21:23]

Josh____:

mynameisdeleted, file/directory permissions will have a definate impact on myth being able to use it for storage. Make sure the ownership for the directory is read/write for the user the mythbackend daemon is running as.

[22:21:37]

elmojo:

Any ION users out there who can tell me if newer drivers since the 185 series has improved VDPAU performance?

[22:23:10]

Josh____:

mynameisdeleted, the files need to be read/write. The directory itself (and all subdirectories) need execute permissions as well.

[22:23:42]

mynameisdeleted:

yeah.. and needed to be owned by mythtv:mythtv as well I guess

[22:23:59]

mynameisdeleted:

before it could write since it never gave coulnt create file error like if I denied write

[22:24:14]

mynameisdeleted:

but with mythtv:mythtv as owner it actually records there as well

[22:24:27]

Josh____:

What ever the user and group that the mythbackend daemon runs as.

[22:24:37]

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[22:24:42]

mynameisdeleted:

network has multi-terabyte drives that are better for recording

[22:24:51]

mynameisdeleted:

how much space do I need for temporary files for watching?

[22:25:13]

mynameisdeleted:

10GB good for that?

[22:25:26]

mynameisdeleted:

its 100% dvb

[22:25:49]

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[22:25:54]

wagnerrp:

mynameisdeleted: storage groups allow you to define multiple directories to store to, and mythtv will do load balancing between them

[22:26:18]

mynameisdeleted:

scheduled recordigns are the only files I feel like keeping after watching

[22:26:27]

Josh____:

The average mpeg2 one-hour recording is about 2GB

[22:26:38]

wagnerrp:

mynameisdeleted: the LiveTV storagegroup is entirely optional, and if nothing is set in it, it will default to the Default storage group

[22:26:53]

wagnerrp:

you can define additional storage groups beyond those two, and use them with custom recording schedules

[22:27:22]

wagnerrp:

2–3GB/hr is good for 'standard definition content'

[22:28:00]

mynameisdeleted:

if I use a 500GB partition and a 2TB drive will it balance 4/5 of movies go to the 2TB drive?

[22:28:02]

wagnerrp:

high definition DVB broadcasts can hit over 10GB/hr

[22:28:51]

wagnerrp:

im not sure exactly what the algorithm would do in that scenario

[22:29:13]

mynameisdeleted:

but if one filled up it would use the other?

[22:29:21]

wagnerrp:

yes

[22:29:23]

mynameisdeleted:

but it might cause a problem with the last recordign for the smal drive?

[22:29:42]

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[22:29:47]

wagnerrp:

generally you set an amount of free space to be required on each drive

[22:30:01]

wagnerrp:

and mythtv will not start recording to that drive once you hit that

[22:30:07]

mynameisdeleted:

ok so 50GB must be free

[22:30:13]

Dagmar:

That's your buffer space for when two recordings might be going to the same filestore simultaneously

[22:30:15]

mynameisdeleted:

or 20GB or whatever

[22:30:26]

Dagmar:

50gb is probably a bit much

[22:30:26]

wagnerrp:

see http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/21221

[22:30:35]

wagnerrp:

default is 10GB

[22:31:03]

Dagmar:

Maybe it would be what you'd want if you were planning on recording the Herringbone Fashion Show Marathon on QVC Ultra-HD

[22:31:06]

wagnerrp:

looks like it works off free space on the disk

[22:31:29]

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[22:31:32]

wagnerrp:

so it would prefer the 2TB drive until it got to the same level of free space as the 500GB drive

[22:31:48]

wagnerrp:

however it would schedule recordings on the 500GB drive if you were already recording multiple shows on the 2TB drive

[22:31:52]

[R]:

i have 3 mount points for my defaul storage group

[22:31:55]

[R]:

it puts stuff in all 3

[22:31:57]

Dagmar:

I'm just relying on that jfs won't let me adjust the slack space for root, so whether I like it or not I'm going to be leaving 5% of that disk more or less unaccounted for

[22:31:59]

[R]:

but i have like 500gb free on the first one

[22:32:18]

[R]:

and i only have 2 tuners

[22:32:30]

wagnerrp:

[R]: any digital tuners? multirec?

[22:32:36]

mynameisdeleted:

all drives have been benchmarked at bout 130MB/s io rate or maybe about 80 over gigabit ethernet

[22:32:37]

mynameisdeleted:

remote

[22:32:46]

[R]:

yes, but i've never recorded on multirec

[22:32:54]

[R]:

the overlap sucks

[22:33:11]

mynameisdeleted:

if I enable fast tuning then I can watch multiple channels at same frequency?

[22:33:15]

mynameisdeleted:

with 1 tuner?

[22:33:18]

wagnerrp:

mynameisdeleted: youre not worried about total throughput... but rather throughput when you are pushing multiple streams to disk simultaneously

[22:33:32]

wagnerrp:

that has nothing to do with 'fast tuning'

[22:33:34]

mynameisdeleted:

yeah... I can do 2 streams at 80 easilly

[22:33:41]

syamajala:

so i think everything works for right now

[22:33:48]

wagnerrp:

multirec allows you to record multiple streams from one transponder (frequency)

[22:34:13]

wagnerrp:

you cannot do two streams to a single disk at 80MB/s, if you can only achieve 130MB/s

[22:34:32]

mynameisdeleted:

total between both

[22:34:36]

wagnerrp:

linear performance goes down, not up

[22:34:37]

mynameisdeleted:

40 each

[22:34:46]

wagnerrp:

ok, ill agree with that

[22:35:13]

wagnerrp:

however that 130MB/s is only the outer edge of the disk, the inner edge of those disks are closer to 70MB/s

[22:35:19]

wagnerrp:

either way, speed isnt your concern

[22:35:29]

mynameisdeleted:

its enough

[22:35:34]

mynameisdeleted:

space is more concern

[22:35:42]

wagnerrp:

the issue is multiple recordings on a single disk will just cause excessive wear

[22:35:44]

mynameisdeleted:

1 stream uses maybe 1/2 MB/s average

[22:35:50]

wagnerrp:

since youre frequently seeking all over the place

[22:35:51]

mynameisdeleted:

that too

[22:36:05]

wagnerrp:

1 SD stream only uses ~4mbps

[22:36:19]

wagnerrp:

1 HD stream may use up to 25mbps

[22:36:30]

wagnerrp:

possibly higher

[22:36:36]

mynameisdeleted:

25mbps = about 3MB/s

[22:36:56]

wagnerrp:

correct, still doesnt matter for performance, rather for storage space estimates

[22:36:58]

Dibblah:

Not this again. Seeks have no impact on longevity.

[22:37:17]

mynameisdeleted:

depends how well drive is made too

[22:37:35]

mynameisdeleted:

and if it fails after 10 years due to mechanical arm or due to over bearing use

[22:37:39]

mynameisdeleted:

on spinning

[22:37:41]

sphery:

yay, all of tonights recordings worked

[22:37:52]

wagnerrp:

Dibblah: ok, this is just anecdotal evidence of me running drives full

[22:37:52]

Dibblah:

Bearing quality / environment / shouting sysadmins _all_ have far, far more effect.

[22:37:52]

sphery:

cold boot fixed my old HD-3000

[22:38:07]

wagnerrp:

any disk ive had full (and heavily fragmented) for any length of time has died a premature death

[22:38:21]

iamlindoro:

sphery, can't miss BoT after all

[22:38:25]

sphery:

no joke

[22:38:26]

iamlindoro:

apparently twice a night is a death knell

[22:38:36]

mynameisdeleted:

its rated for so many seeks over a lifetime

[22:38:38]

mynameisdeleted:

and so many spins

[22:38:41]

sphery:

yeah... clear em out, then move on to something else :)

[22:38:44]

mynameisdeleted:

the one it reaches first determiens life

[22:38:48]

wagnerrp:

BoT is recording at 10PM?

[22:38:49]

wagnerrp:

why so late?

[22:39:02]

wagnerrp:

nevermind, its ending at 10PM

[22:39:09]

mynameisdeleted:

if you do lots of seeks for 1 hour a week

[22:39:15]

mynameisdeleted:

but its on 24/7

[22:39:19]

mynameisdeleted:

the bearings will wear out first

[22:39:34]

mynameisdeleted:

I have no idea how many seeks a drive can take

[22:39:41]

mynameisdeleted:

or how much seek time it can take

[22:40:02]

mynameisdeleted:

I assume that if a drive with 10 year mean time before failure is seekign 24/7

[22:40:07]

mynameisdeleted:

it dies after about 2 years or so

[22:40:15]

wagnerrp:

make that a couple months

[22:40:36]

wagnerrp:

of course being Maxtors could have lended something to that

[22:40:42]

mynameisdeleted:

drives are designed for virus scannign every night and defrag etc

[22:40:48]

mynameisdeleted:

and content indexing in vista

[22:40:51]

mynameisdeleted:

and 7

[22:41:07]

mynameisdeleted:

most reputable new drives designed for standard windows expect lots of seeks

[22:41:12]

wagnerrp:

this was before XP

[22:41:16]

mynameisdeleted:

though not all may be designed properly for that

[22:41:30]

mynameisdeleted:

1.5 TB = new drive

[22:41:38]

Dagmar:

I think the Giant NetApp Report from a year or two ago pretty much showed that only _time_ kills drives

[22:41:40]

mynameisdeleted:

esp if sata and reads at 130MB/s

[22:41:46]

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[22:41:59]

Dagmar:

Use and temperature (reasonable limits) didn't affect whether or not hundreds of _thousands_ of disks died early or not

[22:42:00]

wagnerrp:

was that the thing google put out?

[22:42:00]

mynameisdeleted:

it still depends how its made and hwo well each part is made

[22:42:32]

Dagmar:

So consider someone talking about whether or not a certain drive was designed to handle large numbers of seeks to ba a snake-oil salesman and call it a day.

[22:42:48]

Dagmar:

wagnerrp: Google and a couple of people from other ocmpanies, yea

[22:43:01]

mynameisdeleted:

I never had a drive die

[22:43:08]

mynameisdeleted:

and my oldest is froma computer buitl in 2001

[22:43:16]

Dibblah:

Not only time.

[22:43:17]

Dibblah:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/01/05/shouty_sun_engineer/

[22:43:21]

mynameisdeleted:

I think its over its mean time before failure so just wait for it to die

[22:43:22]

Dagmar:

hahhaa

[22:43:25]

Dibblah:

(Loud)

[22:43:27]

mynameisdeleted:

its been on 24/7

[22:43:29]

Dagmar:

I like the URL already

[22:43:45]

wagnerrp:

ive had a good number die, and a good number more i dont use because i no longer trust them

[22:44:10]

Dagmar:

That's cute but I think I already know what causes the disks to react

[22:44:23]

Dibblah:

Duuuh.

[22:44:31]

Dibblah:

They don't like shouty sysadmins.

[22:44:52]

Dagmar:

Well, they're throttling their speed back to reduce the amount of noise they think they've put out

[22:45:23]

Dagmar:

The vibration he's talking aobut could be it, but there's a smart setting you can flip to turn off the noise-reduction feature

[22:45:38]

mynameisdeleted:

early drives have been killed by spinnign excessively fast

[22:45:50]

Dagmar:

That URL will go _far_ tho just because of the very idea of a "shouty admin" lol

[22:46:12]

wagnerrp:

i imagine a thumper is a fair bit louder than he can shout all on its own

[22:47:04]

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[22:47:05]

mynameisdeleted:

excessive writes to a single sector have caused bad blocks too I think

[22:47:17]

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[22:47:29]

Dagmar:

So have camels but who cares about things that happened during the Gulf War

[22:47:34]

Dagmar:

All that equipmnent has been replaced by now

[22:47:49]

wagnerrp:

hold on... youre not a dvb user

[22:48:07]

wagnerrp:

dvb is europe, youre a atsc/qam user

[22:48:11]

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[22:48:14]

mynameisdeleted:

yup

[22:48:21]

wagnerrp:

you said '100% dvb'

[22:48:24]

mynameisdeleted:

linux still calls it a dvb device

[22:48:30]

mynameisdeleted:

100% digital video broadcast

[22:48:32]

mynameisdeleted:

in qam format

[22:48:44]

mynameisdeleted:

qam256 modulation

[22:48:54]

mynameisdeleted:

but still digital and broadcast and video

[22:49:01]

wagnerrp:

but not 'dvb'

[22:49:22]

wagnerrp:

anyway, that just drops your peak down to around 18mbps

[22:49:40]

wagnerrp:

i wonder how well verizon is about recompression

[22:49:54]

mynameisdeleted:

how do you know I dont have dvb-s through satelite?

[22:50:00]

[R]:

its possible to be "good" with r ecompression?

[22:50:14]

wagnerrp:

because then you would be foolish

[22:50:23]

wagnerrp:

theres nothing good for free on US satellite

[22:50:29]

mynameisdeleted:

also some cable operators use dvb-c or opencable

[22:50:31]

wagnerrp:

just a bunch of shopping and religious channels

[22:50:32]

mynameisdeleted:

innorth america

[22:51:19]

mynameisdeleted:

256-QAM is a modulation scheme for dvb-c

[22:51:25]

mynameisdeleted:

and is used over cox and fios

[22:51:27]

wagnerrp:

it may be qam256, but its not 'dvb-c'

[22:51:27]

mynameisdeleted:

in my area

[22:52:22]

wagnerrp:

anyway, verizon has the *entire* 5.5Gbps spectrum for digital cable, i wonder if they bother recompressing like other cablecos

[22:52:34]

mynameisdeleted:

FiOS's IPTV implementation does not follow cable television formats and conventions for two way television and instead follows the DVB standard

[22:52:38]

mynameisdeleted:

found on their website

[22:52:44]

mynameisdeleted:

it says on the service providers page it is dvb

[22:53:10]

mynameisdeleted:

I dont think fios recompresssssses anything

[22:53:45]

mynameisdeleted:

oops... that was verizon_fios on en.wikipedia.org

[22:53:56]

mynameisdeleted:

not veriziong sayign it was dvb unlike most north american cable

[22:54:19]

mynameisdeleted:

has a decent reference for it though

[22:54:30]

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[22:59:11]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: congrats on the dev promotion :)

[22:59:25]

skd5aner:

noticed on commits

[22:59:27]

wagnerrp:

thanks

[22:59:46]

skd5aner:

saw 23117 – will you put that in trunk too?

[22:59:53]

wagnerrp:

no

[23:00:03]

wagnerrp:

see #7264

[23:00:15]

skd5aner:

k – thx

[23:00:53]

wagnerrp:

23117 was some cleanup for the old bindings, which i intend to replace

[23:01:18]

skd5aner:

gotcha – look forward to it

[23:03:21]

wagnerrp:

are you using the bindings currently?

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[23:18:34]

jams:

wagnerrp- i don't suppose the pybindings can tell me what plugins are installed?

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[23:24:03]

Dagmar:

Wow

[23:24:26]

Dagmar:

So I'm wading through all the gory details of these 42" screens (the place the TV will go is only that big) and I see the Vizio

[23:24:37]

iamlindoro:

jams, I have some code somewhere to determine that programatically

[23:24:40]

Dagmar:

It says "1080p" in the description

[23:24:56]

Dagmar:

I'd like to know how they're doing that with a native res of 1366x768

[23:25:03]

[R]:

Dagmar: magic

[23:25:03]

jams:

iamlindoro- care to share

[23:25:25]

iamlindoro:

jams, digging up

[23:25:33]

[R]:

Dagmar: it'll support 1080p... it'll just downscale it

[23:25:34]

jams:

is it c++ ?

[23:25:40]

Dagmar:

I think I'm gettin' the Sanyo and saying to hell with it

[23:25:49]

Dagmar:

[R]: Actually their description is just screwed

[23:25:53]

[R]:

lol

[23:26:04]

Dagmar:

Someone apparently copypasta'd from the 32" 720 model

[23:26:08]

[R]:

haha

[23:26:12]

Dagmar:

http://www.walmart.com/Vizio-42-Class-Eco-1080p/ip/10993796

[23:26:25]

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[23:26:31]

Dagmar:

It's a good thing I did some thinking

[23:26:39]

[R]:

it says it has 2 differnet resolutions

[23:26:53]

iamlindoro:

jams: http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/1749179

[23:26:57]

[R]:

The bright Eco LCD boasts a high-definition 1366 x 768 native

[23:27:03]

[R]:

The Vizio 42" Eco LCD HDTV features a 1920 x 1080 native resolution

[23:27:15]

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[23:27:28]

Dagmar:

Yes, unless they've been using energon cubes in their manufacturing, one of those thigns is wrong

[23:27:36]

Tanthrix:

Just got my GT 220 installed, and vdpau is working perfectly. Now to upgrade my year old version of Myth.

[23:27:42]

jams:

iamlindoro- cool that might be useful later, right now i'm working with python

[23:28:00]

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[23:28:04]

jams:

guess I will just look at the FS

[23:28:06]

iamlindoro:

jams, ah, ok

[23:28:25]

Tanthrix:

Is there anything particularely cool in SVN that would make it worth my while over the latest stable? (I'll be using an HD PVR eventually, if that makes any difference)

[23:28:41]

Dagmar:

bug fixes.

[23:28:46]

iamlindoro:

Unless you have a specific and compelling reason to use trunk, don't

[23:29:03]

iamlindoro:

especially as there are several breaking things going in in the near future

[23:29:07]

Dagmar:

Tanthrix: 0.22-fixes should be fine. Trunk, no.

[23:29:12]

Tanthrix:

I think I've had nothing but SVN for the past 4 years now. It would be strange now to go stable. ;)

[23:29:46]

Tanthrix:

Or trunk, I should say, as to not sound so newbie-esque.

[23:30:06]

Tanthrix:

I'll do fixes then, thanks.

[23:30:43]

Dagmar:

[R]: Not to pick on the stupid but... http://www.walmart.com/Sanyo-DP42849-42-LCD-HDTV/ip/10929990

[23:31:08]

Dagmar:

Down at the bottom under Videos, click the "AV Connections" tab.

[23:31:19]

Tanthrix:

iamlindoro: By the way, long time no speak. I remember sitting in here a year ago frothing at the mouth with you about the HD PVR. How are you liking yours nowadays?

[23:31:23]

Dagmar:

THe video features a girl who is the daughter of some race driver

[23:31:36]

Dagmar:

Clearly, her father being a race driver has done nothing to increase her intelligence.

[23:31:47]

Dagmar:

It sounds like she's having to stretch her jaw to say "the big words"

[23:32:03]

Dagmar:

I just wanted to see the back panel on the thing

[23:36:28]

wagnerrp:

jams: ive only got what frontend information the frontend control socket gives me

[23:36:42]

wagnerrp:

available plugins is not included in that

[23:37:30]

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[23:37:59]

Dagmar:

You might as well just peek at the Myth source and look at how it's scanning for them

[23:38:07]

Dagmar:

It's not like it does a lot of careful vetting of what it sees

[23:38:16]

Dagmar:

Easy to replicate in just about any language

[23:38:18]

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[23:40:58]

Tanthrix:

Hrm, I have a feeling it may be time for a fresh install. I need QT4, which needs glib2, which upgrading will probably need other things and break whole system.

[23:41:11]

Dagmar:

You don't have glib2?

[23:41:16]

Dagmar:

What the hell are you running?

[23:41:34]

Dagmar:

CentOS?

[23:41:44]

[R]:

even centos has glib2

[23:41:47]

Tanthrix:

Arch Linux from 2 years ago. It's been working perfectly for that entirety, and haven't touched anything expect for minor updates here and there.

[23:42:05]

Dagmar:

You must have just left glib2 out, right?

[23:42:15]

Dagmar:

It's _way_ older than two years

[23:42:36]

Dagmar:

Understand the reason for my shock... I run _Slackware_

[23:42:45]

Dagmar:

Generally _we're_ the low-water mark

[23:42:45]

Tanthrix:

Wait, I take it back.

[23:43:20]

** Tanthrix sheepishly runs off, having assumed that when he queried glib and got glib 1.2.xx he didn't have glib2. **

[23:43:26]

Dagmar:

heheheh

[23:43:32]

Dagmar:

Oh by the way

[23:43:46]

Dagmar:

If you intend to compile Qt4, expect that it will take _ages_

[23:44:19]

Tanthrix:

I'm going to try getting the package first, but it may not be worth the effort of dealing with dependancies.

[23:44:45]

Dagmar:

You will absolutely want to pass it -nomake demos -nomake examples as well just to try to keep it from taking so long that you need to interrupt the build to install your new 128-bit CPU

[23:45:02]

mag0o:

lol

[23:45:13]

Dagmar:

The few deps Qt4 has that would matter to you shouldn't be an issue

[23:45:50]

Tanthrix:

I'm hoping that's the case, but thanks for the heads up. I've always hated waiting, having not the faintest clue how long it had to go.

[23:46:42]

Dagmar:

"A long time" is generally the answer with Qt

[23:46:54]

Dagmar:

You can pity me because I built it six times this weekend, fine-tuning the build harness

[23:47:04]

Tanthrix:

Sounds like fun.

[23:47:08]

Dagmar:

I did this from work ssh'd into my house

[23:47:18]

Dagmar:

Friday, Saturday, and Sunday

[23:47:22]

Dagmar:

12 hour shifts.

[23:47:32]

Dagmar:

It takes a _while_

[23:47:55]

[R]:

i pitty the fool who builds his own QT

[23:47:55]

[R]:

haha

[23:49:33]

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[23:55:58]

Tanthrix:

I'm so out of date, my package manager is no longer functional. Sweet.

[23:58:17]

Tanthrix:

(And I mean no longer capable of functioning in this world in which we live, not simply out of data with regards to mirrorlists.)

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