Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Wednesday, January 20th, 2010, 00:00 AST

[00:00:15]

jmkasunich:

I'm only gonna have the one myth box – combined BE & FE

[00:00:26]

jmkasunich:

I need 24/7 on _some_ computer anyway – webserver, etc

[00:00:33]

jmkasunich:

might as well be the myth one

[00:01:51]

jmkasunich:

oh – another question: 32 or 64 bit mythbuntu?

[00:02:19]

jmkasunich:

new PC is AMD cpu, 770 mobo chipset, GT220 graphics card

[00:02:43]

sphery:

myth is happy with either

[00:03:30]

jmkasunich:

I haven't built a new box since 2007 (using dapper)... I'm not aware of the pros/cons of using 64bit linux in general

[00:03:50]

jmkasunich:

I have 4G of ram for the new box, would be nice to be able to use it all

[00:03:51]

sphery:

if you need things like Skype or certain Windows CODECs that don't have native *nix ports or Windows running in VirtualBox, or ..., you might want to consider 32-bit

[00:04:16]

sphery:

but since, TTBOMK, Ubuntu 64-bit is multilib, you can probably get by with either

[00:04:33]

jmkasunich:

I'll try 64, see what happens

[00:04:33]

Dagmar:

There's not much of a reason to worry about 64-bit problems

[00:04:44]

Dagmar:

It's practically a free ride for us (as opposed to Windows).

[00:04:54]

jmkasunich:

good to hear that ;-)

[00:04:55]

sphery:

and you can use all 4GB in 32-bit or 64-bit

[00:05:11]

sphery:

Dagmar: for those who stick to FOSS stuff, it's a free ride

[00:05:15]

jmkasunich:

they're turning on PAE by default?

[00:05:37]

sphery:

for those who rely on proprietary stuff like Skype, etc..., not necessarily so much

[00:05:43]

Dagmar:

sphery: Even when you're dealing with 32-bit proprietary stuff, I've yet to have a problem with multilib

[00:06:12]

sphery:

yeah, multilib makes it possible, but worth considering

[00:06:55]

jmkasunich:

I'm _almost_ pure FOSS here. I still have two windows programs, and keep a win95 VM around to run them

[00:07:16]

jmkasunich:

a cad program, and quicken (10+ years of records in there)

[00:07:54]

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[00:13:14]

sphery:

jmkasunich: I think you have to select the proper kernel to get support for 4GB on a 32-bit system (one with HIGHMEM4G enabled), but the installer may just do that for you.

[00:14:23]

jmkasunich:

I remember having that problem on my existing box, but dapper doesn't/didn't have precompiled kernels with those options enabled

[00:15:06]

sphery:

ah, I'm pretty sure any current distro would have them

[00:15:11]

sphery:

as 4GB is pretty common, now

[00:15:25]

jmkasunich:

yeah, times they are a-changing (and I always feel left behind)

[00:15:27]

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[00:15:30]

sphery:

(thanks to a certain OS that ships on most computers requiring it :)

[00:16:03]

jmkasunich:

heh – I got 4G for my machine when I was hosting a small compile farm – I had 6–8 VMs running at once

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[01:08:50]

charmin:

that is mid lircrc directory?

[01:25:58]

tcpsyn:

What's the "Watch in Frontend" button in mythweb?

[01:26:13]

wagnerrp:

exactly what it says

[01:26:39]

wagnerrp:

mythweb has detected that the listed frontends have their remote control socket enabled and listening

[01:26:53]

wagnerrp:

pressing that button will direct the respective frontend to begin playing that file

[01:26:56]

tcpsyn:

ah.

[01:26:58]

tcpsyn:

I see

[01:27:18]

tcpsyn:

I was hoping it'd stream to the ihone

[01:27:20]

tcpsyn:

iphone

[01:27:54]

wagnerrp:

i fail to see how that could be mistaken as such

[01:28:11]

wagnerrp:

there are a handful of projects that support mythtv playback on the iphone

[01:28:14]

tcpsyn:

yea

[01:28:27]

wagnerrp:

does the iphone still not support flash?

[01:28:31]

tcpsyn:

still no

[01:28:40]

kormoc:

or if there's a h264 encoded video along side the normal video we will try to stream it

[01:36:08]

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wagnerrp:

aaaghh.... pins and needles, pins and needles

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[03:39:58]

justinh:

roh no. fox is developing a US version of Torchwood (allegedly)

[03:43:34]

wagnerrp:

the US version of an organization to protect queen and country from the doctor?

[03:44:13]

wagnerrp:

surprise! succession was really just a hoax

[03:45:10]

justinh:

no, aliens don't exist in real life

[03:45:50]

Tanthrix_AFK:

justinh: The samba plot thickened, since last we spoke: http://lists.samba.org/archive/linux-cifs-cli . . . /005516.html

[03:45:54]

Tanthrix_AFK is now known as Tanthrix

[03:46:28]

justinh:

hmm. might have to restart my work desktop. firefox just isn't opening anymore

[03:47:40]

justinh:

Tanthrix: velly interlesting indeed

[03:47:59]

justinh:

news to me that ls is an alias on ubuntu

[03:48:26]

Tanthrix:

justinh: I just wish I knew whether or not the mythvideo file browsing code has changed appreciably since 0.21

[03:48:39]

Tanthrix:

justinh: Either it hasn't and CIFS has, or vice versa

[03:48:43]

wagnerrp:

i doubt it has changed any

[03:49:05]

justinh:

depends which part you're talking about

[03:49:20]

justinh:

a lot of mythvideo code has changed since 0.21

[03:49:21]

wagnerrp:

browse mode for local access

[03:49:24]

Tanthrix:

Just the part that traverses the directory and spits out a list of files

[03:49:31]

justinh:

maybe not

[03:49:45]

justinh:

but maybe the move to qt4 changed more under the hood

[03:50:38]

Tanthrix:

I have a sneaking suspicion that I'm screwed, but we'll see what the CIFS guys say

[03:51:48]

Tanthrix:

Then again, I've got a gigabit switch coming tomorrow, so maybe I'll get lucky and that will compensate enough to make it a non-issue.

[03:53:34]

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[03:53:35]

Tanthrix:

It sure as hell is beyond my capability to muck about with the mythvideo code, so it rests on some magical CIFS mount parameter I can pass or the switch saving the day

[03:54:51]

** Tanthrix really wishes he would have bought another 2TB drive on Black Friday for $139.99 to move all his stuff straight onto his backend **

[03:55:26]

wagnerrp:

theyre not much more than that now

[03:55:28]

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[03:55:30]

justinh:

I doubt mythvideo could be any worse than say, nautilus

[03:55:35]

wagnerrp:

i got one a couple weeks ago for $150

[03:55:58]

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[03:55:59]

Tanthrix:

wagnerrp: Oh? I'm seeing $180 on newegg now

[03:56:02]

justinh:

on my system at home all the file managers a) take ages to start & b) absolutely suck

[03:56:37]

wagnerrp:

seems they cheapest on there now is $170

[03:56:41]

justinh:

it's faster to start up my laptop & browse with explorer via network shares

[03:57:13]

Tanthrix:

heh, that's been my experience as well.

[03:57:48]

Tanthrix:

wagnerrp: Aye. When I bought my WD on Black Friday, I was a bit out of the loop and didn't realize what a great deal it was. I should have bought 5 and ebayed them.

[03:58:30]

wagnerrp:

theyre only $180 for the same unit now

[03:58:51]

wagnerrp:

when you get through the ebay/paypal fees, and shipping, its not worth your time and effort

[03:59:21]

Tanthrix:

True enough.

[03:59:45]

justinh:

then dealing with clueless dolts on the other end of the process.. meh

[04:01:07]

justinh:

last thing I sold on ebay was a USB DAB radio. I made it pretty damn clear it wouldn't work with windows XP in the auction. In 40 point red lettering. Successful bidder gets it ok, then contacted me to say it won't work in windows XP. Arghhhh

[04:01:42]

justinh:

he got his money back & I re-auctioned it. Got more for it the 2nd time :-)

[04:01:53]

justinh:

but even so.. shudder

[04:01:56]

wagnerrp:

who paid for shipping?

[04:02:03]

justinh:

we split the difference

[04:02:44]

justinh:

you can't win when you deal with arseholes who can't even comprehend a simple statement

[04:04:07]

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[04:06:00]

justinh:

didn't matter much in the end. sold to the user with a clue about reading text, but not of the value of items.. for almost double what I originally paid for it :)

[04:06:23]

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[04:06:26]

justinh:

so in some ways, thank God for stupid users.. and in others.. arghh those stupid users! ;-)

[04:06:36]

Tanthrix:

There is a certain fun to selling things on eBay, even if you're only making $15/hr all said and done.

[04:06:58]

justinh:

I couldn't do it for a living

[04:07:07]

Tanthrix:

No, that would be far too tedious.

[04:07:15]

justinh:

that'd involve way too much bending over since they changed their terms

[04:07:44]

justinh:

it's worked in ebay's favour though.. I reckon it's hiked prices up

[04:07:46]

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[04:08:20]

justinh:

very little in the way of real bargains there nowadays unless you're looking for real esoteric stuff

[04:08:51]

Tanthrix:

Well, there is still a large supply of cheap asian stuff that can be really great, if you can wait 3–4 weeks for shipping.

[04:09:21]

Tanthrix:

I got a wireless remote control for my 7D this way for around $17 shipped, and it works great.

[04:09:31]

justinh:

yeah there's that of course

[04:11:26]

Tanthrix:

Most of what I buy on ebay now is of that nature, now that I think about it. It really isn't worth it to buy most new, quality things there, especially if you poke around for coupon codes.

[04:14:06]

Tanthrix:

I've been saving hundreds of dollars lately by googling for coupon codes before making any online purchase. Now it's just a subconscious habit.

[04:16:13]

justinh:

I've given up looking. all I ever seemed to hit were coupon code websites with nothing of any relevance

[04:16:47]

justinh:

hotukdeals.com is the first place I look for offers though. got our wii very cheap that way. had to wait ages for it to be delivered though

[04:16:53]

Tanthrix:

Generally, I just check retailmenot.com Usually if they're not on there, they don't exist and/or aren't worth doing.

[04:17:00]

justinh:

oh no it was the wii fit, not the wii. heh

[04:17:41]

Tanthrix:

I got 10 percent off three $600-ish eyepieces doing this.

[04:18:05]

Tanthrix:

Also got some sort of weird post office coupon for Best Buy that I used to get 10 percent off my 7D, making the price of the kit cost the same as just the body.

[04:18:20]

Tanthrix:

That wasn't a coupon code, obviously, but it's the same idea.

[04:19:57]

Tanthrix:

(And I mean 10 percent off base price, not 10 percent off a price that was jacked up by 10–15 percent above everyone else, for the record. Gotta be careful about that.)

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[04:28:03]

justinh:

hmm. wish I was more mechanically minded. time for my car to get a new timing belt/chain

[04:28:37]

justinh:

my haynes manual reckons it's a four spanner job (out of five, for difficulty)

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tank-man:

its fun working on things the first time, like brake pads :)

[04:32:16]

justinh:

brakes, no problemo

[04:32:46]

justinh:

I'm reluctant to do the timing though.. one slip up & it could be a really expensive mistake

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[04:36:56]

justinh:

lol. only 6% of hits on my website have a user agent string

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[04:37:32]

justinh:

might be time to see if I can turn those without away

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wagnerrp:

what could be hitting your site that doesnt have a UA?

[04:53:12]

justinh:

oops i meant a browser UA string

[04:53:22]

justinh:

they're ignoring robots.txt etc :(

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[05:03:04]

justinh:

does debian have any of ubuntu's stupid 'security' anality?

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[06:01:05]

flexy:

how does myth decide which startchan in cardinput to use, when starting livetv?

[06:08:20]

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[06:11:35]

justinh:

not tempted to say 'don't care'. not a bit ;-)

[06:14:07]

flexy:

:)

[06:16:08]

flexy:

it's just that it allways seems to start with the card that shows encrypted channels. and those are further away (in epg) from the most used channels. not a biggie, just a question inspired after the comments from the wife.

[06:17:01]

Dibblah:

flexy: It's the last used channel on that recorder.

[06:18:13]

flexy:

yeah, but livetv allways seems to start at the dvb card number 3, even if it was not the card used last. card 3 has conax reader, so I've designated it to scrambled pay channels

[06:19:03]

flexy:

so, starting live tv (I have the start live tv with epg on) and the epg is far away from the most used channels

[06:19:04]

justinh:

you're forgetting to change channels after watching porn?

[06:19:09]

flexy:

:D

[06:19:16]

justinh:

I remember seeing a users list mail about that

[06:19:17]

flexy:

oops :)

[06:19:35]

flexy:

hmm

[06:19:41]

justinh:

ugly hack might be to have a cron job change it

[06:19:52]

flexy:

yeah, I thought of that

[06:20:09]

flexy:

I even tried renaming the card names in the menus...

[06:20:26]

justinh:

I've never been sure what the point of having a settable starting channel is if it's only used once

[06:21:14]

flexy:

I feel that it should be set globally, not by grabber card

[06:21:59]

flexy:

I have 3 dvb cards, 2 of them for free to air with 3 channels allowed from one mux

[06:22:26]

flexy:

and the third card to scrambled channels with 2 channels allowed from one mux

[06:22:58]

flexy:

so, there is 8 last channels... from which only one is truely last channel watched

[06:23:25]

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[06:28:48]

flexy:

justinh: settable starting channel? for epg? where can I find the setting? or did I misunderstood?

[06:28:58]

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[06:29:20]

Dibblah:

flexy: The start channel is per-card.

[06:29:42]

Dibblah:

And you've set the "avoid conflicts with Live TV" setting, which inverts the card list.

[06:29:45]

justinh:

yeah you set the start channel in mythtv-setup

[06:29:58]

justinh:

and then the first time you change channel it's forgotten about

[06:30:11]

flexy:

justinh: ok

[06:30:38]

justinh:

or rather subsequent times you start it, it just tunes to the last used channel

[06:30:58]

Dibblah:

You could just remove the code that sets the start channel on successful tune.

[06:31:00]

justinh:

which is somewhat different to the implied 'always start livetv on this channel'

[06:31:02]

flexy:

Dibblah: yeah, I've noticed it's per-card. I have 3 real cards which act like 8 cards. pretty many last watched channels...

[06:31:28]

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[06:32:07]

flexy:

Dibblah: yeah, that would be a method. If I could code C.

[06:32:27]

justinh:

hmm if only I knew how to comment out one line

[06:32:31]

flexy:

perhaps I managed it, if I knew in which file it is done.

[06:32:42]

justinh:

//

[06:32:43]

flexy:

///

[06:32:48]

flexy:

right

[06:33:04]

justinh:

if it *is* only one line. I dunno

[06:33:22]

justinh:

find out what the db field is & grep for it in the code :)

[06:33:34]

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[06:33:34]

flexy:

I don't either. but I can try to figure it out...

[06:34:04]

flexy:

justinh: well, pretty good method... :D why did I not think of it...

[06:34:10]

flexy:

thanks

[06:34:41]

justinh:

hey maybe this PoE PCB is badly designed. At room temperature the converter IC is 93.7 deg C

[06:34:50]

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[06:34:55]

flexy:

whoa

[06:34:58]

Dibblah:

C is not that bad.

[06:35:20]

flexy:

almost boiling water temp. I think it's a bit excessive...

[06:35:21]

Dibblah:

I'm just guessing it's a powerSOP?

[06:35:31]

justinh:

yeah but our marketing dept. have printed specs which say the product is good to 50 deg C

[06:35:46]

Dibblah:

And they haven't done the slug attachment to the board.

[06:35:58]

justinh:

and the IC datasheet recommends a certain weight of copper under the chip.. which there ain't

[06:36:17]

justinh:

so the truckload of stuff we sold into Oz is failing in sunshine

[06:36:20]

ivor:

justinh: isn't that spec the temperature environment at which it can operate in? rather than the component temperature?

[06:36:38]

ivor:

re oz. ah. oops! :)

[06:36:55]

justinh:

it's all a very major fail

[06:37:09]

flexy:

ivor: perhaps. but if its so hot at room temp, add almost 30 degrees to it at 50 degrees environment...

[06:37:10]

ivor:

youre not alone. a load of telecoms equipment melted too.

[06:37:14]

justinh:

bad marketing (i.e. claiming without ever testing), bad design

[06:37:22]

Dibblah:

Minor fail. Some heatsinks and thermal epoxy will sort that right out :)

[06:37:30]

Dibblah:

And of course the product recall.

[06:37:39]

justinh:

and of course the massive lawsuit

[06:37:44]

Dibblah:

Which are always popular – Customers like to know you care.

[06:37:55]

Dibblah:

</sarcasm>

[06:38:05]

justinh:

and of course the big loss of contract to sell other products. ouchy

[06:38:08]

ivor:

blame it on climate change.

[06:38:24]

justinh:

we're such a *stupid* company

[06:38:49]

justinh:

don't just make up specs & hope. who in their right mind....

[06:39:01]

ivor:

yeah, I hear some of your staff just spend all day chatting on the internet.

[06:39:15]

justinh:

really? that's terrible

[06:39:15]

ivor:

:P

[06:39:37]

justinh:

hey when there's real work I get right onto it

[06:41:15]

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[06:53:25]

Tanthrix:

justinh: Don't be such a wimp! Replace that timing belt yourself...a few bent valves never hurt anyone...

[06:54:36]

justinh:

sure, but I can't go without my car for a few days

[06:55:27]

justinh:

think I'll have to pay the nice man & have peace of mind that it's somebody else's fault if it goes pear-shaped

[06:55:29]

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[06:55:48]

Tanthrix:

Aye, that is tough living without a car.

[06:56:09]

justinh:

I could happily do without if I could walk to work in less than a day

[06:56:19]

justinh:

or (shudder) use public transport

[06:56:39]

Tanthrix:

I had to deal with that earlier last year...crashed my car.

[06:56:53]

Tanthrix:

Loads of fun. Ended up being a good move, fiscally though.

[06:57:57]

justinh:

apart from losing 2 years' no claims discount having my last car stolen was a blessing

[06:58:03]

Tanthrix:

Got t-boned by someone. Insurance gave me $5k, I beat the passenger door back into shape and sealed with expanding foam so it looked more or less decent if you blurred your eyes.

[06:58:50]

justinh:

not just have been better to buy a new (old) door from a scrapper & spray it?

[06:58:51]

Tanthrix:

Drove that for 5 months until it started to die, then traded it in via the Cash for Clunker deal getting another $4500.

[06:59:12]

Tanthrix:

All in all, got $10k for a car I couldn't have sold on craiglist pre-accident for more than $3.5k.

[06:59:25]

justinh:

popular break in method now is to bend doors open :-\

[06:59:32]

Tanthrix:

justinh: The unibody frame was bent out of shape, so it wouldn't have done much good.

[06:59:37]

justinh:

ah

[07:00:01]

justinh:

borderline write-off I think I'd call that ;)

[07:00:12]

Tanthrix:

justinh: Only an inch or so, but it basically destroyed the whole value of the car instantly, which is why it was totaled and I got decen t money for it.

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[07:01:01]

Tanthrix:

justinh: So, I cut a hole on the inside of the frame with my dremel and used a small log and a sledge hammer to beat it back into shape. Screwed it shut with sheet metal screws, foamed the gaps, and siliconed the outside.

[07:01:28]

Tanthrix:

justinh: Water/air tight on the top at least, and it didn't look nearly as trashy as people who drive around with tarps for windows ;)\

[07:01:49]

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[07:02:16]

Tanthrix:

I can't believe my luck with that cash for clunker program showing up though...the government helped me for once!

[07:02:37]

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[07:03:17]

justinh:

heh. you & the big multinational car manufacturers

[07:03:23]

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[07:03:33]

Tanthrix:

hehe, true enough.

[07:13:37]

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[07:13:53]

AndyCap:

Tanthrix: don't they take totalled cars?

[07:15:21]

Tanthrix:

AndyCap: They do, but only for scrap value, so you can buy them back. I got them to give it to me for $250

[07:16:11]

Tanthrix:

AndyCap: They'd rather just sell it straight to you for scrap, rather than have to pay someone to pick it up, auction it off, etc..

[07:16:41]

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[07:17:43]

Tanthrix:

Well, I'm off to bed. Later all.

[07:17:49]

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[07:21:17]

stuartm:

heh, it's illegal to take a totalled car on the road in the UK

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[07:24:48]

justinh:

who says you have to drive it though?

[07:29:39]

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[07:34:33]

ivor:

justinh: time to get the bicycle clips out. :)

[07:34:43]

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[07:35:12]

justinh:

lol. bike clips.

[07:35:20]

justinh:

I go all out lycraman

[07:35:29]

justinh:

only for shock value

[07:35:30]

ivor:

you know you want to. nothing wrong with a bit of lycra.

[07:36:06]

justinh:

I have some shorts.. they're padded.. great for riding but get really funny looks if I pop into a shop

[07:38:14]

ivor:

http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/ivor.hewitt/Ble . . . 473257431570

[07:39:51]

justinh:

heh I'm not *that* into cycling :)

[07:40:04]

ivor:

and you worry about funny looks. :D

[07:40:07]

justinh:

I go for a scoot along the nearby canal once in a while

[07:40:22]

justinh:

did I say I worry about funny looks? I just said I get em ;)

[07:42:13]

justinh:

actually now the snow's nicked off.. don't worry about the weather. that clingy stuff dries off pretty fast

[07:42:55]

ivor:

indeed. haven't done any early year tt's this year though. did one in a blizzard last year.

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[07:43:44]

justinh:

sometimes worry about the water I go through though, not having seen where it's come from

[07:43:56]

justinh:

running off fields etc

[07:44:56]

ivor:

ah the smell of country. with a nice green sheen.

[07:45:27]

justinh:

heh

[07:45:27]

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[07:45:53]

justinh:

can't be too bad.. or all the fish in the canal would die.

[07:45:56]

ivor:

actually over winter riding into london I rode through something nasty that took the skin off my shins!

[07:45:59]

justinh:

like they did last summer in their thousands

[07:46:20]

justinh:

oof

[07:47:21]

ivor:

determined to get a sub hour 25mile tt this year.

[07:50:43]

justinh:

heh

[07:51:10]

justinh:

according to my bike computer I manage 22mph going downhill with the wind behind me pedalling as fast as I can in the highest gear

[07:51:37]

justinh:

I think it might be wrong. I hope so or it'll be a disappointment

[07:51:59]

ivor:

lol

[07:52:45]

justinh:

pedalling downhill I think it'd come to more than that

[07:53:12]

ivor:

my record is currently 56mph down the north downs. :)

[07:53:30]

ivor:

although I did get into trouble when I proudly mentioned it to the wife.

[07:53:58]

justinh:

heheh

[07:54:42]

justinh:

I once did over 40 down one part of the A68, verfied by a car driver. Didn't have the nuts to go any faster

[07:55:34]

justinh:

prolly wouldn't have the nuts to do any more than 30 now

[07:56:26]

ivor:

common sense kicks in.

[07:56:46]

justinh:

without the speedo, maybe I would :)

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[07:58:47]

ivor:

back to mythtv... :)

[07:59:04]

ivor:

trying to decide whether to roll back my kernel.

[07:59:07]

justinh:

I think I've just about got my bike gadget calibrated .. and then the whole reason I have it cocks up... it resets & I lose track of the distance

[07:59:39]

ivor:

get a better one. :) what have you got?

[08:00:06]

justinh:

some aldi junk

[08:00:20]

justinh:

it cost 2p IIRC

[08:00:20]

ivor:

I think I've diagnosed your problem then.

[08:00:51]

justinh:

yeah I think as infrequent a cyclist as me deserves a £15 model as a minimum

[08:01:25]

justinh:

has stacks of features.. it's just.. junk

[08:02:27]

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[08:02:39]

justinh:

don't need one with heart rate monitor or owt. I think I'll know when I'm about to have a heart attack

[08:05:22]

ivor:

since moving to 2.6.32 the dvb driver seems to be triggering an oops in inotify. generally at random intervals but always before I want to record something.

[08:05:24]

stuartm:

or you'll be dead and it won't matter

[08:05:56]

ivor:

trying to decide between rolling back or just waiting for a fix.

[08:06:00]

ivor:

ho hum.

[08:06:34]

stuartm:

ivor: reported it? If not you might be waiting for some time :)

[08:06:49]

ivor:

yeah its already known.

[08:06:53]

stuartm:

cool

[08:07:29]

ivor:

but seemingly random and unknown cause.

[08:08:38]

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[08:09:19]

stuartm:

heh, failure in guide data there, I've a 4 1/2 hour recording of BBC HD, supposedly for a 1 hour programme which wasn't even on

[08:09:35]

ivor:

ouch. lots of gigs.

[08:09:50]

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[08:13:15]

stuartm:

28.27 GB

[08:14:12]

stuartm:

it did catch the BBC HD test card, if anyone ever wants to test the calibration of their HD TV ;)

[08:14:26]

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[08:15:16]

stuartm:

and an annoying 5.1 audio test

[08:18:10]

stuartm:

and an an audio sync thing which is pretty interesting

[08:21:04]

justinh:

could be handy for me to grab somehow, that

[08:21:11]

stuartm:

think I'll edit those out and make them available as test samples

[08:21:31]

justinh:

I had to make my own a/v sync stuff for my work here

[08:22:16]

justinh:

didn't have any indicators to calculate offsets, just whether or not it was in sync

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stuartm:

turning cutpoints into a dd command is fun :/

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stuartm:

and apparently I'm getting it wrong

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stuartm:

finally

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stuartm:

justinh: 2 minute HD test card is 220MB, when I cut it, the HD Audio sync is probably going to be the same, I need to find somewhere other than my server to upload them because if they prove too popular then I'll be in trouble ;)

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ivor:

stuartm: justinh: http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread . . . 5&page=6

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stuartm:

oh great, so all that work for nothing

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stuartm:

115Meg? Either they've cut them down from their broadcast length of 2 minutes, or they've transencoded ...

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stuartm:

ahh, those are the older ones however, from the start of last year, the new ones might still be relevant

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ivor:

nice detail on actually using the testcard too: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2008/1 . . . m_the_h.html

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justinh:

wth is the point in rar'ing compressed files?

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justinh:

stupid morons

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stuartm:

ivor: yeah, the note about white not being white is interesting, my monitors can just about distinguish the white from super white

[09:21:32]

justinh:

black won't be quite black either I expect

[09:21:45]

justinh:

is there a PLUGE section on the HD testcard?

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justinh:

good way to find out if your blacks & being squished ;)

[09:22:26]

justinh:

s/\&/are/

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ivor:

stuartm: yeah, interesting and informative. technical but clearly explained. on the internet. weird. :)

[09:27:45]

justinh:

what do you expect from the BBC? ;-)

[09:27:58]

justinh:

written by Andy Quested IIRC

[09:28:02]

stuartm:

justinh: http://miffteevee.co.uk/imagebin/hd_testcard.png

[09:29:10]

justinh:

ta :)

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[09:30:05]

stuartm:

it's not full res, I could grab one for static use if you want

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stuartm:

or just grab the vids and use those

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** stuartm cancels the upload **

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[10:55:24]

dewman:

Hello everyone..

[10:57:03]

dewman:

I have a mythdvd question...

[10:57:07]

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[11:00:42]

dewman:

I asked this question last night, so I apologize for the redundancy. In the Rip/Transcode screen where you select the type of video transcode section, is the software supposed to pick up the name of the movie, or is that something you need to type in? And then once you get the movie transcoded, is it supposed to grab the album art or is that a manual process?

[11:00:56]

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[11:01:15]

justinh:

it just uses the disc name IIRC

[11:01:24]

justinh:

as for metadata, it's up to you to get that

[11:01:52]

dewman:

Strange, It seems that each disc I put in, it says unknown.

[11:04:59]

justinh:

maybe the discs aren't labelled

[11:05:21]

justinh:

never run into one that wasn't but then I've not ripped many discs

[11:09:14]

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[11:10:34]

stuartm:

it should be editable, but I'm not certain that it is

[11:11:07]

justinh:

pretty daft anyway, I think it's only 8 chars long or something

[11:11:23]

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[11:12:11]

stuartm:

yeah

[11:12:31]

stuartm:

doesn't seem to pick up on the title, I can't remember if it ever did but that's easy to patch in

[11:12:54]

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[11:13:12]

stuartm:

the ripping stuff could use work

[11:13:20]

stuartm:

it's had no real attention in years

[11:13:26]

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[11:13:36]

justinh:

cos it wasn't broken, it wasn't fixed? ;-)

[11:13:48]

stuartm:

it wasn't improved ;)

[11:14:20]

stuartm:

there are some little tweaks which would improve the overall experience

[11:14:52]

justinh:

arghhh damn heat in this place is stifling again

[11:15:04]

stuartm:

open a window

[11:15:11]

justinh:

there are no windows

[11:15:24]

justinh:

plenty glass surfaces.. nothing we can open :-\

[11:15:30]

ivor:

go for a walk

[11:15:37]

ivor:

its freezing outside.

[11:15:38]

justinh:

I think I will in 15 mins

[11:15:45]

stuartm:

you've got a chair haven't you?

[11:15:52]

justinh:

to the car, get in it & drive home :D

[11:16:17]

justinh:

stuartm: lol

[11:16:17]

ivor:

car! nooo won't noone fink of the polar bears.

[11:16:45]

justinh:

ivor: you fancy walking 35 miles along major roads?

[11:20:07]

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[11:28:45]

ivor:

justinh: fair point.

[11:28:55]

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[12:23:07]

tcpsyn:

Heh. Just had a stress test. Those bastards shaved my chest.

[12:23:38]

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[12:31:08]

stuartm:

yeah, that's very stressful

[12:31:27]

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[12:33:00]

stuartm:

huh, wonder why they did that ... documentary where footage, an interview, the image is reversed

[12:35:39]

iamlindoro:

stuartm: Yeah, I saw QHttp is deprecated in 4.6, but it definitely still works. I also wasn't feeling particularly charitable as the only person likely to do anything about it, being ignored

[12:36:17]

iamlindoro:

stuartm: I'll convert that stuff to QNetworkAccessManager when I write the "generic" versions, I'm already using it in a couple spots in MNV

[12:36:28]

stuartm:

iamlindoro: sure, not questioning your treatment of the guy/gal, just wasn't sure that you knew it was deprecated

[12:36:51]

iamlindoro:

stuartm: yeah, looked it up to confirm it would still work in 4.6 before responding

[12:37:38]

stuartm:

I'll just shut up then :)

[12:37:48]

iamlindoro:

no, not at all, it was worth saying

[12:38:05]

iamlindoro:

I just as easily might not have

[12:38:17]

elmojo:

"Oh, and it BURNS Blue Ray DVD's too!"

[12:38:23]

elmojo:

I just love reviews

[12:38:57]

iamlindoro:

sounds like a Newegg customer review

[12:39:07]

elmojo:

amazon... close enough

[12:39:35]

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[12:40:50]

jmkasunich:

speaking of useless reviews.... if the newegg reviews are any indication, every single wireless mouse/keyboard combo out there is total crap

[12:41:04]

jmkasunich:

is that true?

[12:41:33]

stuartm:

no, but it does depend on the sort of range you expect etc

[12:41:39]

jmkasunich:

I know myth can be run with a remote, but I'm also going to want to use a regular keyboard and mouse for other stuff

[12:41:54]

jmkasunich:

I have a 37" screen, and will be sitting about 6–7 feet away

[12:42:44]

stuartm:

wireless keyboards are meant to be used within a few feet at most from the receiver, but a lot of people think they are meant to work on the other side of the house or even the next room

[12:42:52]

stuartm:

hence the reviews

[12:43:07]

wagnerrp:

jmkasunich: you better get a bluetooth one, or something like a gyration

[12:43:10]

jmkasunich:

so they are really meant for desktop use, not for sofa use

[12:43:26]

wagnerrp:

any units with their own receiver are only good for a couple feet

[12:43:35]

wagnerrp:

none ive used are good off the desk

[12:43:54]

jmkasunich:

that's good to know, thanks

[12:44:01]

wagnerrp:

and even my sister's bluetooth dinovo is only good for halfway across the room (with the dongle hidden behind the case)

[12:44:08]

stuartm:

even the cheap no-name one I bought for my main frontend works ten feet away (probably further, but I've never tried)

[12:44:17]

jmkasunich:

seems kind of dumb – if the kb is gonna be on the desk, wire it! no batteries that way

[12:44:48]

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[12:44:48]

wagnerrp:

yeah... but the keyboard came with the mouse

[12:44:53]

iamlindoro:

a great many Myth users have their keyboard on the cofee table

[12:44:54]

wagnerrp:

and its nice to be able to remove it when cleaning

[12:45:00]

iamlindoro:

coffee

[12:45:42]

jmkasunich:

I'm not saying that myth users should wire it – I mean, if a company makes a keyboard that only has enough range to be used on a desk, then why bother making it wireless

[12:45:56]

wagnerrp:

now i will tell you that wireless crap is glitchy

[12:46:06]

wagnerrp:

i bought a wireless kb/mouse combo

[12:46:14]

wagnerrp:

then replaced the mouse with a newer unit

[12:46:24]

wagnerrp:

so my old receiver kept looking for a mouse to use

[12:46:24]

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[12:46:26]

** jmkasunich is typing this on a IBM keyboard made in 1991 ;-) **

[12:46:43]

stuartm:

my logitech works well, just tested it out to ~20 feet and another room (brick walls)

[12:46:46]

wagnerrp:

and would pick up mouse movements from a similar wireless mouse on the opposite side of the house

[12:47:10]

wagnerrp:

while the mouse that actually came with it was only good for 4–5ft

[12:47:18]

jmkasunich:

sheesh

[12:47:40]

wagnerrp:

opposite side being 50ft away, through several walls

[12:47:47]

stuartm:

jmkasunich: I use a wireless keyboard exclusively from my desktop, believe me I really appreciate the lack of wires cluttering up the space or that I can free up the desktop when needed

[12:48:01]

** Dibblah wonders how much a "wireless" dongle for the IBM keyboard would sell for. **

[12:48:20]

jmkasunich:

I'm sure the IBM eats too much power to be wireless

[12:48:31]

jmkasunich:

unless the dongle holds 6 D cell batteries

[12:48:47]

jmkasunich:

but it sure is nice to type on ;-)

[12:48:49]

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[12:48:51]

wagnerrp:

yeah, if i every ended up buying a wired keyboard, i would end up cutting it open and installing a USB-B jack on the back so i could detach it

[12:49:07]

stuartm:

jmkasunich: and the batteries last months, in fact I don't think I've yet replaced them in this keyboard which I use all day, every day for well over a year

[12:49:34]

wagnerrp:

i get a good couple months out of my aged rechargable batteries

[12:50:03]

wagnerrp:

considering the drain rate on NiMH, they probably drain more on their own than from use by the keyboard

[12:50:21]

stuartm:

battery life IMHO isn't a reason to avoid wireless, mouse tends to run out faster but I still get at least four months from rechargables

[12:50:26]

jmkasunich:

yeah, I've had problems with NiMH on rarely used items

[12:50:53]

wagnerrp:

now my mouse (laser with internal LiIon pack) is only good for maybe a week

[12:51:31]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: wow, that's spectacularly bad, my laser mouse runs off a couple of NiMH for months

[12:51:51]

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[12:51:57]

wagnerrp:

its also several years old as well, so the back may just be close to death

[12:52:53]

wagnerrp:

yeah, an MX1000 bought a couple months after they came out

[12:52:54]

Dibblah:

20ma for the CPU on the model M.

[12:53:06]

wagnerrp:

so its probably almost 5yrs old

[12:53:07]

Dibblah:

@5v, so 200mW.

[12:53:36]

stuartm:

in addition to wireless mouse/keyboard I've also wall mounted the screens on retracable arms so I can reclaim the desk space when I want it for other things, dusting the desk is much easier

[12:53:38]

wagnerrp:

why does it have a CPU?

[12:53:43]

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[12:53:55]

jmkasunich:

dusting? what's that?

[12:54:12]

stuartm:

just need to do something with the small speakers, might stick up a couple of tiny shelves

[12:54:14]

wagnerrp:

its when you clean the desk of your own filth

[12:54:16]

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[12:54:47]

Dibblah:

What do you mean "why"?

[12:55:05]

Dibblah:

It's a keyboard. Most keyboards have some form of MCU.

[12:55:15]

wagnerrp:

i mean what processing does it do beyond what a little microcontroller could manage

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[13:04:22]

trumee:

guys, if i enable mythtranscode on the front-end, will i get a standalone h.264 file which i can archive?

[13:04:34]

Dibblah:

It scans the matrix for new connections or broken connections and converts those into AT compatible keyboard signals...

[13:04:49]

wagnerrp:

mythtranscode cannot transcode to h264

[13:04:57]

wagnerrp:

only to mjpeg and mpeg4-asp

[13:05:14]

wagnerrp:

and only in a NUV that really is not usable outside of mythtv

[13:05:21]

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[13:05:33]

trumee:

wagnerrp: uh oh!, how can i get h264 files then. the recordings on the BE are in mpg format.

[13:05:37]

wagnerrp:

furthermore, you almost certainly dont want a 'h264 file'

[13:05:44]

wagnerrp:

which would be a raw video encoding

[13:05:54]

Dagmar:

You read stuff on the web until you know what you're doing for real

[13:06:18]

wagnerrp:

you would want something multiplexed in with your audio, likely mp4 or ts if you want it usable on hardware devices

[13:06:21]

trumee:

wagnerrp: i want a mp4/mkv file which has a smaller size.

[13:06:46]

wagnerrp:

mp4/mkv has nothing to do with file size (well there is some container overhead but thats besides the point)

[13:07:10]

trumee:

wagnerrp: wont mpeg-4 compression give a smaller file size than mpeg-2?

[13:07:28]

wagnerrp:

any overhead from any of those containers will be on the order of a couple percent

[13:07:44]

wagnerrp:

mp4 != mpeg-4 compression

[13:08:00]

wagnerrp:

mpg/ts != mpeg-2 compression

[13:08:32]

wagnerrp:

you can stuff near anything you want into either of those containers

[13:08:39]

trumee:

wagnerrp: okay let me rephrase how i get a file out of myth recordings which has a small file size and understandable filename.

[13:08:59]

clever:

nuvexport ?

[13:09:02]

wagnerrp:

understandable filenames are ease, use mythrename.pl

[13:09:14]

wagnerrp:

if you want to transcode, yeah... something like nuvexport

[13:09:20]

wagnerrp:

or mythbuntu's mythexport

[13:09:55]

Dibblah:

Uhhh... http://steampunkworkshop.com/keyboard.shtml

[13:10:03]

trumee:

clever, wagnerrp:nuvexport cries something about mp3 not available. even though i built ffmpeg from source

[13:10:19]

clever:

Dibblah: typewriter like keyboard?

[13:10:21]

wagnerrp:

trumee: then you probably dont have mp3 available

[13:10:30]

wagnerrp:

ffmpeg does not support mp3

[13:10:35]

wagnerrp:

they pull in an outside library for that

[13:10:44]

clever:

trumee: you need to install liblame and then rebuild ffmpeg to use it

[13:10:45]

wagnerrp:

and you have to specifically enable it in configure when compiling

[13:11:43]

trumee:

wagnerrp: i do have liblame and did enable it in ffmpeg. ffmpeg -acodec liblame works but -acodec mp3 doesnt which nuvexport calls.

[13:11:47]

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[13:12:11]

wagnerrp:

well then ffmpeg has changed out from under nuvexport

[13:12:18]

wagnerrp:

ffmpeg likes to change things around, often

[13:12:33]

trumee:

wagnerrp: is it possible to install mythexport in opensuse? is it a mythtv plugin.

[13:12:36]

wagnerrp:

its a moving target, fix nuvexport, or see if theres a newer copy that already has been fixed

[13:12:46]

wagnerrp:

trumee: i dont know, ive never used it

[13:13:06]

clever:

i would just edit nuvexport to call -acodec liblame

[13:13:29]

trumee:

clever: ok, i will try that

[13:14:07]

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[13:14:15]

trumee:

clever: should i use Convert to mp4

[13:14:20]

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[13:14:31]

clever:

all depends on what you want in the end

[13:14:35]

trumee:

will it give me the smallest file size. mpeg-4 compression

[13:14:46]

wagnerrp:

no... mp4 is a container

[13:14:52]

wagnerrp:

it has nothing to do with file size

[13:15:12]

trumee:

i want to retain the image size (SD TV) only have mpeg-4 compression

[13:15:37]

wagnerrp:

mythtranscode will do that

[13:16:14]

trumee:

wagnerrp: nuvexport has Xvid, DVD, SVCD, VCD, DivX, ASF, MP4. which one wll give the highest compression

[13:16:35]

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[13:16:39]

wagnerrp:

well thats a trick question

[13:17:03]

wagnerrp:

xvid and divx are specific implementations of codecs

[13:17:16]

trumee:

wagnerrp: so i need to use mythtranscode first and do something else as well.

[13:17:18]

clever:

by changing the bitrate, you can make them all output files of the exact same size

[13:17:28]

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[13:17:38]

clever:

the big question is, which one would have the best quality

[13:17:39]

wagnerrp:

dvd, svcd, and vcd are formats which specify some limits of codecs and bitrates

[13:17:47]

wagnerrp:

i believe asf implies mpg4-asp

[13:17:55]

wagnerrp:

but mp4 could be near anything

[13:18:11]

clever:

its all very complex and often easy to make files that look horid

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[13:23:21]

trumee:

which file do i need to change in nuvexport. the nuvexport file itself doesnt have any mp3 in it.

[13:24:58]

clever:

trumee: it could be a config file that it includes, you would have to read the code to see

[13:27:58]

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[13:32:33]

sphery:

after trying all the other options, going into the database and manually updating the settings option to enable this.

[13:32:42]

sphery:

why do people think that's a good thing/

[13:35:31]

wagnerrp:

theyre a power user, they can handle it

[13:35:42]

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[13:36:16]

sphery:

Seems so

[13:37:01]

sphery:

They happen to know all the tables, columns, data type/conversion constraints, data value constraints, and all the code that deals with all the values they're modifying.

[13:37:12]

sphery:

I hope to one day know that much about Myth--though I realize I /never/ will...

[13:39:17]

wagnerrp:

are those hulu links posted on the mailing list kosher? i thought i had heard there was no proper way for MNV to currently index hulu

[13:39:28]

wagnerrp:

(rss links)

[13:40:50]

RDV_Linux:

wagnerrp: That is not true iamlindoro resolved Hulu URL forwarding issues a few days ago

[13:41:11]

wagnerrp:

ah, must have misread

[13:41:24]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: It was just needing to handle redirects in the RSS subscription screen, I fixed it when I became aware of the issue

[13:41:38]

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[13:42:40]

RDV_Linux:

wagnerrp: The dailymotion tree view has Hulu URLs but they do not work. I have not prioritized finding out how they need to be massaged yet to have them work properly.

[13:42:53]

** sphery can't wait 'til Hulu goes subscription only **

[13:43:02]

sphery:

then we'll see just how much "information wants to be free"

[13:43:24]

sphery:

"[mythtv-users] error recovered !"

[13:43:25]

stuartm:

information maybe, video and audio maybe not

[13:43:27]

sphery:

strangest post ever

[13:43:37]

sphery:

The guy must be an 11:00 news anchor

[13:44:00]

sphery:

http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/419102#419102 for your inspection

[13:44:11]

wagnerrp:

was that from a phone?

[13:44:18]

RDV_Linux:

sphery: May be in MNV 2.0 we will add the ability to deal with subscription sources. So much to do and so little time;)

[13:44:20]

wagnerrp:

its just very terse

[13:45:04]

wagnerrp:

seriously... 'await my next post for detailed explination'?

[13:45:14]

sphery:

RDV_Linux: that would work for me... I'm more interested, though, in the response all these, "We need Hulu support," people will have.

[13:45:24]

wagnerrp:

'the crow caws at sundown'... 'four men walk down an alley'

[13:45:48]

sphery:

wagnerrp: How a common item in everyone's home could kill them. Tune in at 11:00 for details.

[13:45:59]

sphery:

*** Assuming you're not dead then

[13:47:33]

RDV_Linux:

sphery: I have a patch for the issue you are having with the youtube search but it only traps for data it cannot process and makes it blank. wagnerrp tried it and ended up with a number of empty titles. Right now I cannot find were the data gets corrupted or why the issue does not happen for everyone.

[13:47:55]

wagnerrp:

sphery too now? VINDICATION!

[13:48:09]

iamlindoro:

s/sphery/stuartm/

[13:48:22]

wagnerrp:

oh

[13:48:22]

RDV_Linux:

sphery: oops sorry

[13:48:35]

sphery:

heh, "/usr/loca/lib/libfaad.so" Must be on some crazy Spanish-language distro...

[13:48:55]

sphery:

iamlindoro: how do you know I'm not having the same issue?

[13:49:04]

iamlindoro:

because you refuse to use anything I write

[13:49:18]

sphery:

(perhaps has something to do with your knowing what version of Myth I haven't yet had time to upgrade to...)

[13:49:23]

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[13:49:40]

sphery:

heh, I use Graphite... It keeps my house warm in these cold days.

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[14:19:31]

tcpsyn:

is there a way to manually kick off a user job from mythfrontend?

[14:20:04]

wagnerrp:

in the 'watch recordings' screen, yes

[14:20:06]

iamlindoro:

select the recording you want to run it on, bring up the menu, select "Job Options" and the job you want to run on the recording

[14:20:09]

wagnerrp:

under the 'i' menu

[14:23:08]

tcpsyn:

thanks

[14:23:39]

tcpsyn:

knew it was there somewhere

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flexy:

what is the serviceversion in dtv_multiplex used for?

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[14:38:56]

gbee:

the service version, predictably

[14:39:39]

gbee:

dvb includes a versioning system, so that a change in channel lineup etc is reflected by a change in the version number

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[14:40:28]

gbee:

we track the number passively, eventually maybe we'll prompt automatic rescans or notify the user to changes but that's not on the immediate roadmap

[14:41:19]

flexy:

ok. I just noticed that I have the value 33 on more than one mplexid

[14:41:52]

flexy:

is there a command line utility to check what that value should be?

[14:42:01]

flexy:

for a given mplex

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[14:58:48]

Lollero:

Hello. How can i set preferred audio and subtitle tracks for dvb channels? Selection works fine from OSD but i'd like to set default values

[14:59:02]

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[15:01:28]

trumee:

nuvexport --mencoder works on my box but nuvexport with ffmpeg doesnt. nuvexport --mencoder only allows export to Xvid :(

[15:01:59]

tank-man:

what would you like it to export it as?

[15:02:16]

AndyCap:

"A crash in package mythtv-frontend has been detected" heh.

[15:02:35]

xris:

trumee: running the commands from nuvexport --debug should show you what the ffmpeg erros is

[15:03:26]

trumee:

xris:yup tried that. the error was something like cannot open inter leaved file

[15:03:30]

clever:

trumee: you can also just run ffmpeg (or mencoder) directly

[15:03:44]

trumee:

av_interleaved_write_frame(): Error while opening file

[15:03:50]

trumee:

was the exact error

[15:04:11]

trumee:

clever: i like nuvexport because it give a sane filename.

[15:04:32]

clever:

trumee: mythrename will help with that step

[15:04:43]

wagnerrp:

mencoder is little more than mplayer's wrapper around libavcodec (ffmpeg)

[15:04:51]

clever:

but with both ffmpeg and mencoder, the filename is whatever you tell it, nothing to do with the input

[15:05:11]

clever:

wagnerrp: yeah, but it has less options and for some reason, handles .nuv better

[15:05:18]

trumee:

ideally i want to setup a User Job for a particular show. can i put mythrename into a script?

[15:05:39]

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[15:05:40]

clever:

trumee: ive already made a userjob for this

[15:05:43]

clever:

let me find it

[15:05:53]

trumee:

clever: oh. that will be great

[15:06:02]

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[15:06:03]

clever:

i just modified one of the existing ones

[15:06:17]

trumee:

please dump it on pastebin

[15:07:09]

clever:

trumee: dont see it yet, but you can use mythname.pl (not rename) and mencoder

[15:08:00]

clever:

trumee: here is a basic idea on how to start

[15:08:04]

clever:

echo mencoder 1028_20100120145500.mpg -o `mythname.pl -subtitle 1028_20100120145500.mpg`.avi

[15:08:10]

clever:

it gives me 'mencoder 1028_20100120145500.mpg -o CSI: Crime Scene Investigation:Cockroaches.avi'

[15:08:39]

clever:

its missing a few quotes and stuff, but with a little help from #bash you can finish it into a userjob

[15:09:20]

trumee:

clever: cool.

[15:09:35]

clever:

ah, here it is, mythencode.pl

[15:09:43]

trumee:

clever: excellent

[15:09:46]

clever:

its in the conntrib directory

[15:10:43]

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[15:10:59]

trumee:

clever: found it.

[15:11:21]

clever:

trumee: i think i edited mine to use the resolution on my cell

[15:11:21]

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[15:11:28]

clever:

so the phone wouldnt have to up/downscale any

[15:12:06]

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[15:12:11]

clever:

i had also hacked it at one point to replace mythtranscode

[15:12:20]

clever:

to switch out the files mythtv itself was using

[15:12:41]

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[15:12:42]

trumee:

i want to play on a computer only, so thats ok

[15:12:50]

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[15:15:16]

slinger:

hello ... i am trying to get fill-mythvideo-metadata to ignore a directory where i temporarily rip blurays to called 'Source' I created a file in this directory called folder.Source.nfo with the contents of <no_update/> and it still parses it's contents.

[15:15:21]

slinger:

what am i doing wrong?

[15:15:22]

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[15:16:00]

slinger:

in the source code it says this was added in 1.0.1

[15:16:25]

iamlindoro:

slinger: We can't provide support for external scripts which we don't distribute, especially that one

[15:17:06]

iamlindoro:

In fact, using that script pretty much renders your metadata unsupportable, meaning I/we can't provide any MythVideo support after that any more

[15:17:14]

iamlindoro:

if you want a supported mass metadata update script, use JAMU

[15:17:23]

slinger:

iamlindoro: oh, i didn't know that. figured a lot of people were running it to download images/data for mythvideo.

[15:17:34]

slinger:

iamlindoro: is there some other tool which is better supported?

[15:17:39]

iamlindoro:

see above

[15:17:46]

slinger:

ah!

[15:17:51]

slinger:

thanks iamlindoro.

[15:18:28]

iamlindoro:

np

[15:19:25]

slinger:

looks like that is only available in 0.22 so this has to wait until i upgrade my backend and all my frontends to 0.22. even more reason to do it now. :)

[15:19:26]

trumee:

clever: is mythencode only for nuv files?

[15:19:47]

clever:

trumee: it should work with mpg too

[15:20:00]

trumee:

clever: i tried mythencode.pl /mnt/myth1/recordings/1684_20100120181000.mpg but it is appending nuv to it

[15:20:16]

trumee:

ASS ONE=/bin/nice -10 /usr/local/bin/mencoder -idx /mnt/myth1/recordings/1684_20100120181000.mpg.nuv -fps 30 -oac mp3lame -lameopts vbr=3:br=107 -ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=mpeg4:vbitrate=426:vpass=1 -vop lavcdeint,scale=320:240 -aspect 4:3 -o 1684_20100120181000.mpg.avi

[15:20:23]

trumee:

is the output.

[15:20:37]

trumee:

*/ASS/PASS

[15:21:07]

clever:

trumee: it looks like its blindly adding .nuv to the path, should be simple to edit with a text editor

[15:21:15]

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[15:22:00]

trumee:

clever: also, why i am not getting the sensible name instead of 1684_201xx.mpg.avi

[15:22:23]

clever:

trumee: you would have to rename it to something more sane using mythname.pl

[15:23:04]

clever:

trumee: ah

[15:23:09]

clever:

trumee: you need to give it --getname

[15:24:00]

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[15:24:39]

trumee:

mythencode.pl --getname "/mnt/myth1/recordings/1684_20100120181000" produces some rubbish

[15:24:57]

clever:

trumee: you need to put the .mpg on the end still

[15:25:23]

trumee:

clever: sorry, i did that with mpg

[15:25:37]

trumee:

Option s is ambiguous (size, sublen, subtitle)

[15:25:49]

trumee:

PASS ONE=/bin/nice -10 /usr/local/bin/mencoder -idx /mnt/myth1/recordings/1684_20100120181000.mpg.nuv -fps 30 -oac mp3lame -lameopts vbr=3:br=107 -ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=mpeg4:vbitrate=426:vpass=1 -vop lavcdeint,scale=320:240 -aspect 4:3 -o Usage\:\ \ \/usr\/local\/bin\/mythname\.pl\ \[options\]\ files\

[15:25:57]

trumee:

os the output it produces

[15:26:14]

clever:

trumee: mythname is spewing an error, and then mythencode is trying to use the error MESSAGE as a filename

[15:26:59]

trumee:

mythname.pl /mnt/myth1/recordings/1684_20100120181000.mpg works fine. it outputs City Special

[15:27:19]

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[15:28:25]

clever:

trumee: add --debug

[15:30:04]

trumee:

http://pastebin.ca/1759294 is part of the output

[15:30:40]

clever:

still working on getting firefox to start here, cant open it

[15:31:01]

trumee:

string to execute: /usr/local/bin/mythname.pl -s -rep=. /mnt/myth1/recordings/1684_20100120181000.mpg

[15:31:12]

trumee:

Option s is ambiguous (size, sublen, subtitle)

[15:31:17]

trumee:

are the interesting lines

[15:31:37]

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[15:31:41]

clever:

id edit mythencode to give --subtitle then

[15:33:03]

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[15:36:37]

trumee:

thanks, got it running now :)

[15:37:33]

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[15:37:48]

trumee:

clever: it is in mpeg4? that is excellent

[15:38:07]

clever:

trumee: you can check everything with 'mplayer .... -identify'

[15:38:47]

trumee:

clever: ah! it is not x264. ok, i can hack that one.

[15:38:49]

slinger:

does anyone know if mplayer or some other player will ever support Bluray menus?

[15:38:57]

Dagmar:

It won't.

[15:39:21]

trumee:

i read somewhere that a lossless mythtranscode has to be run on files before transcoding to anything else.

[15:39:23]

slinger:

Dagmar: why not?

[15:39:29]

Dagmar:

slinger: Because.

[15:39:39]

slinger:

i mean is it somehow technically impossible?

[15:39:46]

Dagmar:

Bluray is entirely proprietary and patent-protected.

[15:39:48]

clever:

trumee: lossless wont change the codec, all it does is cut peices of the file out (if you made a cutlist)

[15:39:52]

** stuartm beats someone to death for yet again thinking that x264 is a codec **

[15:40:07]

wagnerrp:

slinger: because no one has yet written an open source menu library

[15:40:13]

Dagmar:

Nor will they be able to

[15:40:18]

** clever gives stuartm a large bullet proof laptop to use for the next beating **

[15:40:25]

slinger:

because i refuse to buy a bd player ... i buy / rent discs but if i can't play them on my existing linux/mythtv system i wouldn't bother with it at all.

[15:40:47]

Dagmar:

So buy a PS3 and be done with the problem

[15:40:56]

wagnerrp:

slinger: you *can* rip the primary video off the disk using AnyDVD HD under windows

[15:41:05]

slinger:

<wagnerrp

[15:41:10]

wagnerrp:

and then play that video file in various players under linux

[15:41:18]

slinger:

wagnerrp: i currently rip them and watch them with mplayer with no issues.

[15:41:27]

wagnerrp:

however there is very minimal decryption support under linux

[15:41:29]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: not a solution for a one night rental etc

[15:41:33]

wagnerrp:

and no playback support to speak of

[15:41:44]

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[15:41:55]

slinger:

stuartm: why not? I just ripped 3 one night rentals last night.

[15:41:58]

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[15:42:02]

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[15:42:06]

Dagmar:

YAY

[15:42:07]

Dagmar:

Now we're done

[15:42:16]

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[15:42:24]

slinger:

i rip BD's all the time ... it's a bit more cumbersome but it works.

[15:42:32]

slinger:

tho my gf misses not having previews.

[15:42:39]

wagnerrp:

and you delete those when you return the rentals, right?

[15:42:46]

stuartm:

slinger: you've got some friends around, one of them brings around a disc, so you disappear for an hour to rip the film so everyone can watch it?

[15:42:53]

sphery:

slinger: please don't talk about ripping one-night rentals

[15:42:56]

devinheitmueller:

slinger: please read the channel rules. Discussion of violation of US law is prohibited in this channel.

[15:42:57]

stuartm:

it's not practical

[15:43:07]

slinger:

wagnerp: once i am done watching them yeah ...

[15:43:17]

sphery:

slinger: a one-night rental is a one-night license to watch a show, not a license to copy it

[15:43:21]

stuartm:

and you can't expect your parents, grandparents etc to watch disks that way

[15:43:22]

Dagmar:

I doubt it

[15:43:31]

slinger:

devinheitmueller: okok ... i didn't realize this couldn't be discussed.

[15:43:54]

sphery:

slinger: even if you watch once and delete, if you don't watch during the rental period, it's a copyright violation and does /not/ fall under fair use

[15:43:54]

stuartm:

bluray won't be a realistic proposition on linux until playback direct from the disk (with no delay) is a reality

[15:44:01]

clever:

sphery: what if ripping is the only way to watch it, would it be allowed aslong as you delete when returning the disk?

[15:44:04]

Dagmar:

stuartm: And _that_ isn't happening

[15:44:05]

slinger:

honestly have no interest in pirating material ...perfectly happy to pay the rental fee. just want to be able to watch it on my mythtv system rather than a stand alone player.

[15:44:10]

sphery:

clever: IANAL :)

[15:44:15]

Dagmar:

clever: DON'T.

[15:44:33]

clever:

sphery: you just answered what i asked ~6 seconds before i asked

[15:44:39]

Dagmar:

We've got more than enough jackaninnies who will wink-wink-nudge-nudge their way around this

[15:45:09]

slinger:

stuartm: i agree the extra step of rip then play sucks, but i do that already for dvds.

[15:45:13]

Dagmar:

Don't even encourage them

[15:45:40]

sphery:

clever: I never said it was legal or that it falls under fair use to rip it and watch during the rental period--I simply said it is /not/ legal to rip it and watch it outside the rental period, and that doing so is /not/ covered under fair use

[15:45:49]

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[15:45:51]

sphery:

there is a very important distinction

[15:45:52]

slinger:

Dagmar: if you are just trying to get fair use from it is that so wrong?

[15:45:59]

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[15:46:08]

Dagmar:

slinger: The vast majority of people aren't.

[15:46:16]

trumee:

clever: should i setup a user job as /usr/local/bin/mythencode.pl --getname "%DIR%"

[15:46:27]

Dagmar:

...and no one requires any help from us on their "fair use"

[15:46:37]

clever:

trumee: something like that, but %DIR% doesnt sound like the right option

[15:46:39]

Dagmar:

...as these things are entirely outside the scope of running mythTV.

[15:46:48]

Dagmar:

ALL discussing it does is gain us extra liability.

[15:46:55]

devinheitmueller:

The courts have concluded that the DMCA anti-circumvention rules override your fair use rights (thus ripping for *any* reason is illegal). Please discontinue this conversation.

[15:47:10]

slinger:

Dagmar: well if you are adhering to fail use and want to play an m2ts file launched from mythtv-video it's not.

[15:47:10]

sphery:

devinheitmueller: thanks for clarification

[15:47:29]

sphery:

devinheitmueller: got any refs?

[15:47:33]

trumee:

/usr/local/bin/mythencode.pl --getname "%DIR%/%FILE%" probably

[15:47:36]

Dagmar:

slinger: I'm sorry. You didn't mention those. Therefore it's painfully obvious that it has no bearing on this

[15:47:39]

slinger:

anyhow ... didn't want to cause a ruckus. just curious if anyone else was playing m2ts files. i guess thats a better way to phrase it.

[15:47:40]

Dagmar:

slinger: LAST WARNING.

[15:47:52]

slinger:

Dagmar: okok ....

[15:47:59]

Dagmar:

I don't take people back out of my ignore list until the firewall reboots.

[15:48:03]

devinheitmueller:

sphery: see the recent RealNetworks case. I don't have the link in front of me.

[15:48:07]

sphery:

thx

[15:49:20]

Dagmar:

Being that pretty much the entirety of Bluray is protected by patents, we literally can't play it at all under Linux

[15:49:32]

Dagmar:

No legal playback, or ripping, or even parsing of menus

[15:49:39]

slinger:

Dagmar: Funny thing with cable where I live, very hard to use with Mythtv because the QAM is encrypted. so I opted to put two big ATSC antennas on the roof and use hdhomeruns. i just really love mythtv and don't want other devices.

[15:50:08]

slinger:

Dagmar: isin't dvd the same?

[15:50:20]

wagnerrp:

two big antenna is probably worse than one antenna and an amp

[15:50:20]

MartinJT:

just found this... I'm sure you all know this, but thought I'd show you anyway...

[15:50:27]

wagnerrp:

interference issues and such

[15:50:28]

MartinJT:

run aptitude -v moo

[15:50:36]

Dagmar:

slinger: This is me, not caring in the least

[15:50:40]

MartinJT:

then aptitude -vv moo

[15:50:52]

MartinJT:

then aptitude -vvvmoo

[15:50:56]

MartinJT:

then aptitude -vvv moo

[15:51:15]

slinger:

wagnerrp: one faces south to the us and second faces west ... i am in a wierd spot where i can't get both with one antenna... so use two with two HDHR's.

[15:51:18]

slinger:

Darmar: whatev's.

[15:51:22]

stuartm:

who left the farm gate open again?

[15:51:25]

iamlindoro:

a) Yes, we know, b) not all linux is Ubuntu, and thus doesn't all have aptitude

[15:52:28]

clever:

MartinJT: it gets better with -vvv and -vvvv

[15:52:40]

clever:

MartinJT: and 5 lets it continue:P

[15:52:48]

trumee:

where can i change User Jobs in mythweb. cant find that setting anywhere

[15:52:59]

wagnerrp:

its in mythtv-setup

[15:53:08]

MartinJT:

sorry iamlindoro... a) good to know that someone can speak for everyone b) anything that isn't ubuntu doesn't matter...

[15:53:10]

wagnerrp:

and as such, you have to restart the backend for it to take effect

[15:53:25]

stuartm:

ubuntu sucks

[15:53:31]

xris:

heh

[15:53:36]

MartinJT:

blastphemar!!!

[15:53:45]

iamlindoro:

that's some Ubuntu spelling right there

[15:53:51]

wagnerrp:

linux is for bitches

[15:53:59]

Dagmar:

slinger: DVDs that are not encrypted and are therefore quite playable in Linux. The code end of things is entirely the same with respect to what MythDVD needs to do

[15:54:15]

Dagmar:

slinger: Whether or not DVDs can be played legally has NOTHING to do with Bluray.

[15:54:25]

stuartm:

well that's an appropriate response, since Ubuntu has more in common with a religion than a good distro

[15:54:31]

Dagmar:

slinger: You are quite obviously attempting to waste my time with irrelevant arguments. *don't*

[15:54:51]

Dagmar:

I am not your mother. I have no vested interest in giving you the benefit of the doubt.

[15:55:19]

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[15:55:24]

Dagmar:

Ther'es things that can be discussed here because they'll eventually wind up getting he project sued.

[15:55:25]

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[15:55:35]

Dagmar:

For god's sake when you're told what they are DON'T argue about them

[15:55:46]

sphery:

I heard Ubuntu is like Mac OS for people who have enough sense not to pay Apple prices

[15:56:02]

mag0o:

hehe

[15:56:02]

Dagmar:

sphery: That's not very far from the truth now

[15:56:06]

slinger:

Dahmar: been using mythtv and #mythtv-users for like 5 years and always loved it. and in those five years you've always been such a grumpy gus. i think you need to chill a bit.

[15:56:06]

mag0o:

that's a good one

[15:56:08]

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[15:56:12]

Dagmar:

sphery: The damn thing gets better on my laptop every month

[15:56:53]

sphery:

I feel that's a safe enough statement--people can choose to take it as either a compliment or an insult to Ubuntu :)

[15:57:00]

MartinJT:

and... can't aptitude be installed on any debian based system? not just ubuntu....

[15:57:45]

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[15:58:17]

iamlindoro:

All linux isn't Debian based either.

[15:58:29]

sphery:

heh: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/56125

[16:00:08]

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[16:03:15]

Dagmar:

sphery: Looks like ther'es still time for someone to run a photo of a cow through aalib and submit it as a replacement

[16:03:35]

sphery:

Isn't it supposed to look like a cow being eaten by a snake, anyway?

[16:03:51]

Dagmar:

I don't even know why a cow is there

[16:04:16]

sphery:

(based on what I saw of the 6th run with 6 v's

[16:04:41]

sphery:

or why Gentoo has one, too (since they don't use apt)

[16:05:13]

sphery:

specifically, what I saw was: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Aptitude_moo.png

[16:06:18]

Dagmar:

...because -vvvvvv looks like a snake on the ground to some people

[16:06:31]

Dagmar:

I think those people need either less drugs, or possibly more drugs.

[16:06:46]

Dagmar:

Their current dosage is definitely incorrect at any rate.

[16:07:51]

sphery:

heh, agreed

[16:11:36]

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[16:15:15]

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[16:19:19]

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[16:19:20]

** iamlindoro claims the title of "quickest wiki block ever" **

[16:19:23]

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[16:19:42]

iamlindoro:

Was looking at the account created and thinking "Hmm, ,I bet that's a spammer..." Refresh the page and sure enough!

[16:22:34]

Dagmar:

I don't even wait anymore.

[16:22:52]

Dagmar:

If they didn't make a post right away, I look to see if htey even browsed the site.

[16:23:07]

Dagmar:

If they didn't, they're a spammer just pre-creating accounts.

[16:24:49]

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[16:25:35]

stuartm:

I take it that's not with mediawiki?

[16:25:38]

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[16:28:48]

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[16:29:34]

wagnerrp:

i could see a use in a script that would flush accounts with no contributions after 2-days or so

[16:30:38]

wagnerrp:

accounts like this 'Jarodwilson'... 2.5mos and not a single entry

[16:30:57]

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[16:31:03]

Dagmar:

hehehe

[16:31:53]

wagnerrp:

definately someone that needs watching

[16:31:54]

stuartm:

there's an iamlindoro who keeps telling people to "DIE DIE DIE" and then deletes their work

[16:32:12]

iamlindoro:

what a jerk, that guy

[16:32:14]

wagnerrp:

may start defacing hardware decoder pages or something

[16:32:17]

iamlindoro:

I'm sure they're very nice essays

[16:32:29]

iamlindoro:

Best money can buy

[16:33:40]

wagnerrp:

although most of these blocks seem to be from accounts created that day

[16:34:10]

devinheitmueller:

Does mediawiki not have any sort of "moderation for first post" mechanism?

[16:34:29]

devinheitmueller:

(that's how I have wordpress setup for comments)

[16:34:38]

iamlindoro:

devinheitmueller: Mediawiki tends to do everything with plugins/extensions... but probably

[16:35:03]

devinheitmueller:

that might be a useful plugin to consider if manual moderation is becoming too time consuming.

[16:35:11]

stuartm:

spammers would then just start making trivial format changes, or something that can't really be argued with

[16:35:43]

stuartm:

spam script which spell checks pages, fixes an error or two then delivers the payload

[16:35:43]

devinheitmueller:

stuartm: well, at least that addresses the "automated spammer" problem, raising the bar some.

[16:35:46]

wagnerrp:

sure... if theyre repeat offenders?

[16:35:55]

devinheitmueller:

I also implemented a captcha, which got rid of about 99% of spammers.

[16:36:06]

Dagmar:

pThen we nuke their accounts the old fashioned way we're already doing

[16:36:11]

wagnerrp:

i have no idea how many actually are repeats

[16:36:28]

wagnerrp:

and to be honest, it only ends up being a couple a month

[16:36:37]

wagnerrp:

thats not bad by any measure

[16:37:43]

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[16:39:18]

wagnerrp:

heh... 'Excuse for my post but I do not have money to buy meal to my children. Forgive me please.'

[16:39:32]

sphery:

where's that?

[16:39:33]

stuartm:

it's funny how we've reached a point where a couple of spammers a month "isn't bad by ANY measure" ;)

[16:39:38]

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[16:39:57]

wagnerrp:

sphery: the IP based spams at the bottom of the block list

[16:40:07]

sphery:

Looks like there are some CAPTCHA plugins for mediawiki: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Combating_spam#Captcha

[16:40:39]

LtChambers:

If I need Windows on my HTPC but I don't have a spare machine to run MythTV's backend, is it better to run a Linux host with a Windows VM, or a Windows host with a Linux VM?

[16:41:00]

wagnerrp:

why do you need windows on your htpc?

[16:41:28]

LtChambers:

because it's used for normal computer stuff with keyboard/mouse and the users aren't familiar with linux

[16:41:44]

sphery:

best is to buy another computer for MythTV

[16:41:48]

wagnerrp:

so its not a HTPC, its a computer with a tuner card

[16:42:07]

jmkasunich:

retrain your users ;-)

[16:42:09]

LtChambers:

it's a PC in the home theater that is not just used for theater...

[16:43:35]

wagnerrp:

if youre not going to dedicate hardware for the purpose, you probably shouldnt be running mythtv

[16:43:51]

jmkasunich:

hmm, that's an interesting statement

[16:43:53]

wagnerrp:

myth really expects that it can have its way with the hardware

[16:44:31]

wagnerrp:

running multi-head on a frontend is a painful proposition

[16:44:56]

jmkasunich:

I'm a myth newb, who has been assuming that my mythbuntu box will also be a somewhat normal ubuntu linux box and can do normal things

[16:45:36]

jmkasunich:

BE running all the time, but invisible, FE running when I want to watch (or listen) to something, otherwise, normal desktop showing

[16:45:48]

jmkasunich:

am I making some bad assumptions?

[16:45:51]

wagnerrp:

its one thing to use your backend as a general purpose server

[16:46:06]

jmkasunich:

FE and BE are the same machine in my case

[16:46:06]

wagnerrp:

but running your backend on a machine that will otherwise be used as a desktop is not advised

[16:46:28]

jmkasunich:

because recording is a heavy load?

[16:46:40]

dustybin:

backend and frontend combos are good for saving the planet

[16:46:42]

sphery:

basically, you want myth to be 100% in control of the capture cards at all times and no one else touches them

[16:46:59]

jmkasunich:

well, nothing I do on the desktop is going to care about capture cards

[16:46:59]

LtChambers:

in my case it's HDHR

[16:47:00]

wagnerrp:

not so much, but interactive users could do bad things that would disrupt myth

[16:47:06]

wagnerrp:

servers generally will not

[16:47:12]

LtChambers:

like what?

[16:47:15]

sphery:

power off

[16:47:24]

jmkasunich:

heh – I never power off

[16:47:28]

wagnerrp:

try to access the card, turn the computer off, cause crashes, etc..

[16:47:30]

LtChambers:

what about suspend?

[16:47:35]

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[16:47:37]

sphery:

only if initiated by Myth

[16:47:41]

LtChambers:

OK, so I'm getting the impression the Windows VM is the way to go

[16:47:41]

Dagmar:

Put a poptart into the optical drive

[16:47:52]

sphery:

Myth is more an appliance than a program you run occasionally

[16:47:55]

wagnerrp:

a VM is almost never the way to go

[16:48:06]

sphery:

I don't use my refrigerator for destop things, either

[16:48:12]

jmkasunich:

I have no rugrats, so I'm safe from poptarts

[16:48:23]

sphery:

but yeah, VM for Myth is bad

[16:48:38]

LtChambers:

obviously Myth would run on the Linux host...

[16:48:40]

sphery:

and VM for "normal desktop things in Windows" is probably annoying as can be

[16:48:40]

wagnerrp:

myth IN a VM is definately bad

[16:49:22]

LtChambers:

sphery: why's that?

[16:49:28]

LtChambers:

excluding games of course

[16:49:30]

sphery:

basically, IMHO, a Linux box should be just a Linux box and a Windows box should be just a Windows box (dual-booting allowed, if you really want), but...

[16:49:34]

wagnerrp:

running a dual-head machine with a TV for a mythfrontend, and a separate monitor and keyboard for desktop use can be done

[16:49:42]

wagnerrp:

but its not easy

[16:49:47]

jmkasunich:

myth would need to "escape" the VM to talk to the capture hardware – that is a bottleneck

[16:49:54]

sphery:

LtChambers: mainly because the types of things that Windows excels at that aren't doable in *nix are generally things that don't work well in a VM

[16:49:56]

wagnerrp:

and a linux desktop will work just fine for most tasks

[16:50:59]

jmkasunich:

sphery: I use a VM to run windows stuff, but it is only two programs, (legacy things), not demanding (the VM is win95), and I'm not at all interested in watching TV at the same time

[16:51:55]

LtChambers:

the main other things we do on the machine is browse web, xbmc (which could be on linux host), and skype

[16:52:14]

wagnerrp:

anyway, i would make the same commentary about any DVR software in general, not just mythtv

[16:52:23]

LtChambers:

obviously browsing could be on the linux host too, that's not hard to retrain. but skype is a bit of a hangup since the linux client sucks

[16:52:31]

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[16:53:02]

LtChambers:

wagnerrp: yes, but most PC DVR software will run natively in windows won't it? ;)

[16:53:42]

wagnerrp:

sure, but if i were using it as a DVR for scheduled recordings, i would leave it alone

[16:53:52]

wagnerrp:

i wouldnt use it as a desktop

[16:54:33]

jmkasunich:

if I tried to do what you are suggesting, I'd wind up with two computers running 24/7, instead of just one

[16:54:42]

** sphery suggests RDP or VNC to a real machine **

[16:54:47]

wagnerrp:

why must the desktop run 24/7?

[16:55:09]

Dagmar:

because I use it 24/7

[16:55:12]

sphery:

and, yeah, you can use wol to wake it

[16:55:18]

wagnerrp:

why must the myth box run 24/7 for that matter?

[16:55:23]

jmkasunich:

"the desktop" for me means "my primary PC", and it is my webserver, etc, as well as being my "desktop"

[16:55:35]

sphery:

and, yeah, you can use mythtv's support for shutdown

[16:55:36]

wagnerrp:

shove the web server on the myth box

[16:55:44]

wagnerrp:

let that stay on all the time

[16:56:06]

jmkasunich:

well, I was basically planning on shoving _everything_ on the myth box

[16:56:31]

wagnerrp:

to be honest, i wouldnt run a webserver on my desktop either

[16:56:39]

wagnerrp:

for the same reasons

[16:56:50]

wagnerrp:

my use of it as a desktop could cause bad things to happen

[16:57:09]

jmkasunich:

I've pretty much never had that problem

[16:57:43]

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[16:57:44]

jmkasunich:

the only thing I use another computer for (which I have been doing less of lately) is software development that touches on kernel modules, drivers, etc

[16:57:48]

LtChambers:

if you're the only user that's a reasonable approach, but with other less saavy users they'd need to be restricted

[16:58:01]

jmkasunich:

ah, true

[16:58:05]

mchou:

LtChambers: foget skype. use asterisk

[16:58:11]

mchou:

forget*

[16:58:31]

jmkasunich:

I'm the only user, so I forget about the WAF and "poptart in the drive" factor

[16:58:48]

Dagmar:

Yes, why use a simple, practical solution, when you can spend hours upon hours on a system with dodgy documentation that's meant to run a PBX

[16:59:54]

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[16:59:55]

mchou:

practical my ass

[17:00:18]

mchou:

skype drops calls worse than mobile phones

[17:00:25]

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[17:00:39]

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[17:03:06]

LtChambers:

is there an asterisk lite with a skype-like interface and no need to install a server?

[17:03:14]

wagnerrp:

so he should set up his own SIP server, and have everyone he wants to talk to get softphones and connect to him?

[17:03:39]

wagnerrp:

LtChambers: asterisk is not an endpoint, you have to get a separate softphone or IPphone

[17:03:39]

mchou:

wagnerrp: there's no need to do that

[17:03:50]

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[17:04:06]

mchou:

wagnerrp: PSTN phnes can call up asterisk just fine

[17:04:11]

mchou:

pones*

[17:04:18]

mchou:

umm, phones*

[17:04:25]

wagnerrp:

if you buy additional hardware, sure

[17:04:29]

mchou:

nope

[17:04:30]

LonEagle:

yes if you pay for a did number

[17:04:42]

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[17:04:58]

wagnerrp:

you mean outbound calling in... well then you need to pay for a VOIP provider

[17:05:05]

LtChambers:

"Asterisk applications that connect with legacy telephony systems (PBXs or the PSTN) require telephony interface hardware."

[17:05:07]

mchou:

LonEagle: you don't even need to _pay_ for a DID #

[17:05:28]

mchou:

LonEagle: There are DIDs that are free

[17:05:41]

mchou:

LonEagle: free as in beer

[17:05:45]

LonEagle:

how does the provider make money then?

[17:05:59]

mchou:

LonEagle: settlement fees

[17:06:08]

kormoc:

LonEagle: by charging you?

[17:06:18]

LonEagle:

kormoc: that's how most providers make money :P

[17:06:48]

mchou:

LonEagle: basically the originating carrier pays the recipient carrier

[17:07:10]

LonEagle:

i'm aware of how that pseudo-scam works

[17:07:26]

sphery:

OpenWengo/Qute/...

[17:07:37]

sphery:

only problem is convincing all your friends to drop skype

[17:07:37]

LonEagle:

or rather, regulatory loophole, if you will.

[17:07:50]

mchou:

that's not a scam, just the way historically business has been done

[17:07:57]

wagnerrp:

so you get a number in the middle of nowhere, and everyone has to pay long distance fees to call you

[17:08:08]

mchou:

wagnerrp: nope

[17:08:23]

sphery:

I guess it's actually called QuteCom

[17:08:49]

LtChambers:

wengo was promising but it seems dead

[17:09:04]

mchou:

wagnerrp: why dont you get INFORMED and look up "google voice," just to name one example

[17:09:09]

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[17:09:38]

wagnerrp:

so this isnt the regulatory scam based off the requirement for larger phone companies to pay small ones in underpopulated areas?

[17:09:42]

LonEagle:

google voice is a reasonable solution, but in that case google is eating the did fees.

[17:09:46]

LonEagle:

wagnerrp: yeah.

[17:10:01]

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[17:10:10]

mchou:

like I said, it's not a scam

[17:10:17]

LonEagle:

a friend of mine is using google voice + gizmo for the inbound calls.

[17:10:21]

mchou:

it's the way business has been done

[17:10:45]

wagnerrp:

where it was set up because the low population density couldnt support a phone carrier on its own, but instead they bring in VOIP endpoints and conference calls to pump up traffic

[17:10:53]

mchou:

LonEagle: there are other voip providers that provide free DIDs

[17:11:24]

mchou:

LonEagle: and they'd hardly scammers

[17:11:26]

wagnerrp:

using a law that was supposed to keep these carriers solvent, to scam loads of money off the larger carriers

[17:11:49]

mchou:

lol

[17:11:54]

wagnerrp:

ok, its not a scam, but its absolutely exploiting a loophole in a manner it was never intended for

[17:12:00]

sphery:

ah, google voice... so you can have your voicemails transcribed to text and available (to the world) through the Google search engine...

[17:12:25]

mchou:

sphery: there's no reason you have to use google voicemail

[17:12:52]

sphery:

yeah, just saying...

[17:12:57]

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[17:13:04]

sphery:

they don't do that anymore, but they did for a few days

[17:13:05]

mchou:

sphery: and like I said, google is not the only voip provider giving out free DIDs

[17:13:10]

sphery:

it was a mistake in the programming

[17:13:30]

Dagmar:

wagnerrp: It's not that the larger companies have to pay the smaller companies, it's that the gov't regulates the rates the larger companies charge, but the smaller ones can charge whatever they damn well please for transit

[17:13:35]

LonEagle:

it *is* a very useful service, depending on your opnion of google.

[17:14:18]

sphery:

I agree--I just don't like that we (the world) are giving up so much privacy with things like that

[17:14:18]

mchou:

sphery: and your point is? you think AT&T didn't mix up people's accts?

[17:14:25]

sphery:

and I don't really even have things to hide

[17:14:26]

Dagmar:

So while you might be only getting charge 3 cents a minute for calling East Boonies, Utah, the East Boonies Telco may be charging 25 cents a minute to AT&T for transit

[17:14:38]

LonEagle:

sphery: i agree.

[17:14:40]

stuartm:

Google are evil

[17:14:54]

EdWyse_Mobile:

sphery: Just googled for one of my google voice transcriptions. Couldn't find it.

[17:14:59]

sphery:

stuartm: but they pretend to be a great friend of FOSS...

[17:15:08]

mchou:

LonEagle: btw gizmo5 service sucks rocks too

[17:15:15]

sphery:

EdWyse_Mobile: like I said, a programming error that caused it to happen for a couple of days

[17:15:29]

stuartm:

they pretend to be everyone's friend, in a twisted way I think they really believe it

[17:15:37]

sphery:

agreed

[17:15:44]

EdWyse_Mobile:

Ah, missed that while I was searching.

[17:15:45]

mchou:

LonEagle: in some ways I'd rate their call quality as even worse than skype

[17:15:48]

LonEagle:

mchou: seeing as it's the only SIP provider google voice will interface with, there's not a lot of choices.

[17:15:56]

jmkasunich:

they (google employees) drink the kool-aid and pronounce it good

[17:16:03]

jmkasunich:

some of it actually is

[17:16:17]

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[17:16:50]

stuartm:

in the same way Lenin really believed communism was good for everyone (when it really just meant that everyone suffered equally, unless they happened to be politburo members)

[17:17:15]

sphery:

but, hey, they have an "Open Source" operating system called Android that allows people to write code only in a high-level Java-like VM that's not actually Java because they didn't want to pay any licensing fees, so they took JavaME and modified it enough that they felt they could defend any court action and called it Dalvik and it doesn't give full access to the hardware capabilities and the OS doesn't allow full customization ...

[17:17:21]

sphery:

... and if you get only the open parts you're missing a lot of Android

[17:17:38]

sphery:

but they can call it "Open Source" and attract a bunch of people who actually believe what they're saying

[17:17:55]

EdWyse_Mobile:

At least I don't have to buy a Mac to write apps for it.

[17:17:58]

sphery:

not to mention an operating system that's not an operating system called Chrome OS

[17:18:02]

mchou:

sphery: in the case of android is not so much about "open" source

[17:18:13]

sphery:

mchou: agreed--but they market it as open

[17:18:18]

sphery:

/that/ is what makes me mad

[17:18:28]

Dagmar:

It's open enough for me. I've got the emulator.

[17:18:31]

sphery:

I agree it's more open than iPhone, but it's not open

[17:18:32]

mchou:

sphery: it's more about driving platform/carrier independence

[17:18:46]

jmkasunich:

is there anything "opener" for phones?

[17:18:53]

sphery:

though each hardware vendor has to customize it heavily to make it work

[17:18:55]

Dagmar:

I've been screwing around with it and the Pre emu trying to decide which I'll be likely to throw in with

[17:19:01]

mchou:

sphery: and in that sense it's definiting more open

[17:19:09]

mchou:

definitely*

[17:19:12]

sphery:

and then you end up with other vendors always chasing Google's implementation because Google gets advance planning time

[17:19:15]

stuartm:

or the "Open Source" Google OS, which is really a completely locked down linux which only runs one GUI application – a closed source google webbrowser

[17:19:30]

kormoc:

jmkasunich: openmoko?

[17:19:30]

EdWyse_Mobile:

sphery, weren't you one of the people who were chastising me for even suggesting that someone try to compete with the big video card vendors and make one that's open-source?

[17:19:34]

Dagmar:

sphery: Define how that is different from Apple

[17:19:35]

stuartm:

oh, sphery did that one already

[17:19:48]

kormoc:

jmkasunich: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Main_Page

[17:19:51]

** sphery laments the virtual death of Openmoko **

[17:19:58]

jmkasunich:

kormoc: I have no clue, I was just asking (I don't have a smartphone, or follow that world)

[17:20:02]

stuartm:

Dagmar: Apple don't pretend their embracing open source

[17:20:17]

mchou:

stuartm: haha, touche

[17:20:21]

sphery:

stuartm: agreed on Chrome OS

[17:20:41]

mchou:

stuartm: they just have rabid apple fanbois

[17:20:52]

sphery:

fortunately, some hard-core believers are continuing hardware and software design for Openmoko

[17:20:58]

sphery:

just a /very/ uphill battle

[17:21:08]

Dagmar:

I didn't notice any of the Google ads saying anything about Android "embracing open source"

[17:21:09]

sphery:

(seems a lot like RMS in the 1970's :)

[17:21:24]

Dagmar:

You guys can't go round blaming them for just anything the press says

[17:21:34]

sphery:

http://source.android.com/

[17:21:55]

sphery:

Dagmar: Google calls it Open Source, more legit vendors (such as Motorola) don't

[17:22:04]

stuartm:

:p

[17:22:18]

Dagmar:

Looks open source to me

[17:22:20]

sphery:

"first free, open source, and fully customizable mobile platform"

[17:22:23]

sphery:

wrong on 3 counts

[17:22:39]

stuartm:

fully customizable is the biggest lie of them all

[17:22:44]

Dagmar:

Please demonstrate how it's not "open source"

[17:22:45]

LtChambers:

welcome to PR

[17:22:48]

sphery:

openmoko was the first, Android isn't fully open source, and you can't generally customize Android on any particular hardware

[17:22:52]

sphery:

(a vendor can)

[17:23:09]

Dagmar:

OpenMoko never got a phone to market that I've noticed

[17:23:10]

Dagmar:

Ahem

[17:23:18]

clever:

sphery: yeah, even if the OS is open source, the vendor can lock out the methods to update/edit it

[17:23:18]

Dagmar:

Drafting specs don't count.

[17:23:28]

Dagmar:

Someone has to actually *make* the phone, and I don't mean "some guy with an SMT kit"

[17:23:55]

clever:

sphery: i could make a box with linux&mythtv, then epox the hdd and not give you the root pw, now you have none of the benefits of open source

[17:23:59]

Dagmar:

I'm sorry you don't like android, but trash-talking it because it's not actually the second-coming of Christ is stupid

[17:24:01]

clever:

epoxy*

[17:24:33]

sphery:

Dagmar: because Google doesn't define the extent of the operating system, and phones come packaged with closed-source Google applications for functionality

[17:24:43]

Dagmar:

So what?

[17:24:52]

sphery:

so, if it's open source, make it open source

[17:24:53]

mchou:

sphery: there is no need for your friends to drope skype

[17:25:02]

sphery:

mchou: with QuteCom?

[17:25:11]

mchou:

sphery: skype for asterisk exists

[17:25:20]

Dagmar:

Write open-source bits to replace the closed-source bits

[17:25:22]

wagnerrp:

(for a fee)

[17:25:22]

LtChambers:

for $66?

[17:25:28]

wagnerrp:

LtChambers: yeah

[17:25:41]

LtChambers:

isn't that a joke considering skype is free?

[17:25:44]

mchou:

LtChambers: beats connecting a handset via USB

[17:25:53]

LonEagle:

hey how can i configture myth to give me gray pillarboxes to prevent burn-in

[17:26:04]

Dagmar:

The phone has open source stuff. Just because it's not 100% open source doesn't mean it's some kind of egregious GPL violation

[17:26:16]

sphery:

LonEagle: there was a setting for that... don't know if it exists in 0.22+

[17:26:21]

LtChambers:

mchou: actually, for an HTPC with a webcam and microphone, USB wins

[17:26:24]

wagnerrp:

LtChambers: its intended for businesses to integrate it with their existing PBX systems, not for individual users

[17:26:31]

LtChambers:

video conferencing FTW

[17:26:41]

wagnerrp:

thats why its $66 per concurrent call, not just for the software

[17:26:50]

LtChambers:

holy crap

[17:26:51]

sphery:

LonEagle: Letterboxing Color in Playback Settings

[17:26:52]

mchou:

LtChambers: hell no. echo cancellation just to mention one

[17:27:09]

mchou:

LtChambers: crap hardware==crap calls

[17:27:23]

LtChambers:

mchou: so use a good microphone? same issue with speakerphones

[17:27:28]

mchou:

nope

[17:28:00]

mchou:

plenty of GOOD full duplex speakphones out there

[17:28:25]

LonEagle:

sphery: ah, great. perfect.

[17:28:34]

mchou:

and all of them support SIP, not skype

[17:28:49]

LtChambers:

I don't want a phone. I want to use my speakers and a microphone

[17:29:08]

wagnerrp:

and they all cost a good deal of money

[17:29:11]

mchou:

nobody is stopping you from doing that

[17:30:27]

mchou:

LtChambers: plenty of folks dont want "phone" to be tethered adjacent to a computer is all I'm saying

[17:30:29]

LtChambers:

so that's why I should run a Windows VM for skype? ;)

[17:30:47]

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[17:30:56]

LtChambers:

quite so, for a non-video phone tethering to a computer is inconvenient

[17:31:03]

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[17:31:18]

LtChambers:

actually it's inconvenient even for video phones, but we're not quite at affordable cordless videophones yet

[17:32:31]

mchou:

LtChambers: I just dont understand folks who want to hook up the "phone" to HTPC

[17:32:57]

mchou:

if I'm watching something all calls go straigt to voicemail

[17:33:03]

mchou:

straight*

[17:33:23]

LtChambers:

how does your standalone phone know you're watching something?

[17:33:24]

sphery:

aren't there a bunch of wireless skype phones (even wifi ones)

[17:33:43]

mchou:

LtChambers: easily. that's what asterisk is for

[17:33:43]

sphery:

bunch means 3 or 4, because of the closed, proprietary, niche nature of the topic

[17:33:55]

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[17:34:08]

mchou:

sphery: not to mention crappy battery lives

[17:34:38]

LtChambers:

That's "easy" to setup? Having asterisk talk to MythTV and XBMC if it's showing something, as a condition for going straight to voicemail?

[17:34:53]

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[17:34:53]

mchou:

LtChambers: it's simple

[17:35:05]

mchou:

LtChambers: at least for mythtv

[17:35:12]

mchou:

dunno about XBMC

[17:35:45]

mchou:

XBMC is roach motel as far as I'm concerned

[17:35:50]

LtChambers:

anyway we tend to pause our show to talk to someone depending on who it is

[17:35:58]

mchou:

lol

[17:36:06]

mchou:

pause

[17:36:16]

mchou:

my point exactly

[17:36:43]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v GreyFoxx

[17:36:45]

GreyFoxx:

Ihave asterisk display the callerid info on my myth screen so I decide if I want to bother reaching for the phone or not

[17:37:10]

dustybin:

GreyFoxx: are you using mythphone?

[17:37:15]

GreyFoxx:

no

[17:37:23]

GreyFoxx:

just mythtvosd

[17:37:40]

dustybin:

right, so a scrolly message comes across the screen

[17:38:03]

GreyFoxx:

there are 3 or 4 styles, scrolling is just one

[17:38:12]

dustybin:

mythtvosd --template=scroller --scroll_text="Greyfox is calling.."

[17:38:22]

GreyFoxx:

I don't use the scrolling one :)

[17:38:29]

dustybin:

what are the others?

[17:38:40]

GreyFoxx:

mythtvosd --help

[17:38:45]

dustybin:

mega :D

[17:39:49]

Dagmar:

I like the ones with the scroller working properly

[17:39:50]

Dagmar:

Oh wait...

[17:40:16]

dustybin:

my god, cid looks excellent

[17:40:28]

dustybin:

its mythphone, but not

[17:40:55]

Geoff918:

Purchase decision: Does anyone have any experience with a system with onboard Intel GMA 900 graphics card working with MythTV? I searched the boards and only found 945 and 950 generation.

[17:41:04]

dustybin:

GreyFoxx: how do you get cid to work with asterisk

[17:42:08]

** dustybin googles **

[17:42:18]

stuartm:

Geoff918: I'd learn towards an Nvidia IGP personally, AMD and Intel aren't bad, but you pretty much guarantee results with nvidia (and it pains me to say it)

[17:42:39]

dustybin:

my lord

[17:42:40]

dustybin:

http://www.voip-info.org/wiki/view/Asterisk+t . . . +integration

[17:42:48]

GreyFoxx:

http://www.pastebin.ca/index.php

[17:42:49]

** dustybin feels double escited **

[17:42:51]

GreyFoxx:

oops

[17:42:51]

stuartm:

does audio over hdmi work with Intel IGPs?

[17:42:55]

GreyFoxx:

http://pastebin.ca/1759449

[17:43:06]

mchou:

dustybin: dont jism!

[17:43:13]

dustybin:

GreyFoxx: thanks :D

[17:43:13]

GreyFoxx:

That pops up the OSD and sends and email/text message to my phone for when I'm not home

[17:43:26]

dustybin:

mega :D

[17:45:11]

Geoff918:

:StuartM, I keep finding that. I suppose I could pick-up an nVidia GT 220 or something. I'm looking at a system with built-in Intel GMA. I can certainly test it and buy a card--figure out how to disable the onboard video card if necessary

[17:46:04]

stuartm:

I prefer onboard graphics, but it's your call :)

[17:46:58]

stuartm:

things like audio over hdmi are messier with anything but IGPs, you also free up a slot for other things

[17:47:19]

Geoff918:

StuartM: I think with those boards they're built-in to the motherboard. I could choose another system, but I can't remove the video "card". I don't like non-modular systems, but I can only work with what's on the market.

[17:48:19]

quicksilver:

This is a bit weird. My mythtv installation, which has been working for years, has 3 cards. The frontend + backend agree it has three cards. But mythtv-setup thinks it has only two

[17:48:42]

Geoff918:

Other issue: Any commentary on Mythbuntu versus say Knoppmyth?

[17:48:59]

wagnerrp:

Geoff918: what distro are you familiar with?

[17:49:15]

Geoff918:

There isn't too much information on Knoppmyth, but my experience with Knoppix shows that it doesn't take too much in the way of resources

[17:49:35]

wagnerrp:

and knopmyth has been superseded by linhes

[17:49:37]

Geoff918:

:Wagnerrp, openSUSE, Ubuntu, Knoppix mainly

[17:49:42]

stuartm:

Geoff918: the GPU is built into the board, but you can disable it from the bios and plug any card you like into the PCIe slot(s), it's no different from the Intel systems

[17:49:53]

stuartm:

it's identical

[17:50:07]

Geoff918:

:wagnerrp, that would explain the lack of information I can find that's relevant

[17:50:25]

Geoff918:

:stuartM, yeah that's what I meant--I'd have to disable the "card"

[17:50:48]

stuartm:

well you'd have to do the same with the Intel GMA based system

[17:50:50]

Geoff918:

through BIOS or whatever is the mechanism for it--you're right more than likely the BIOS 'cause I don't know what else would possibly initialize the device

[17:51:03]

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[17:51:48]

stuartm:

in fact you don't have to disable the GPU on Nvidia and AMD integrated systems, you can actually run multiple cards at the same time (with certain restrictions)

[17:52:10]

Geoff918:

:StuartM, usually--insofar as it doesn't create conflicts

[17:52:28]

stuartm:

but that's an edge case, most people don't want two cards active at the same time

[17:52:56]

Geoff918:

http://www.buy.com/prod/hp-dc5100-desktop-3–2 . . . 2634740.html

[17:53:18]

Geoff918:

that's the system I'm thinking wouldn't be bad. I can hook my friend's external HDD to it for more storage space. I think the rest of the specs should be good.

[17:53:31]

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[17:54:15]

stuartm:

I have two Nvidia IGP based systems and last year I had an AMD IGP, nice boards, and ultimately cheaper than buying discrete graphics cards and a board without IGP for the same performance

[17:54:35]

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[17:56:33]

Geoff918:

So nobody has any real preference or performance differences between different Linux distros running Myth?

[17:57:14]

superm1:

performance really shouldn't be different between different distros, it's the same basic code

[17:57:26]

superm1:

mythbuntu might have a faster boot because of all the ubuntu boot speed work

[17:57:59]

superm1:

and you figure most of the major distros have some level of support for vdpau for accelerated playback on NV card

[17:58:54]

Geoff918:

:superm1, fair enough

[17:59:16]

Geoff918:

I wasn't too sure if the memory requirements might differ in some substantial way. I understand that Mythbuntu is built upon XFCE

[17:59:35]

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[17:59:51]

Geoff918:

Who knows, with the new distros coming out based on LXDE such as Lubuntu 10.04 maybe it will get faster and lighter weight

[17:59:55]

superm1:

i'm of the belief that the session manager isn't going to modify the requirements in any significant way. maybe 15 megs-20 megs of extra usage

[18:00:19]

superm1:

even gnome is getting work done on it so it can be considered " more lightweight "

[18:00:51]

superm1:

but if someone really wants to argue one way or the other in terms of if it makes a difference, i'd like to see some metrics

[18:01:13]

superm1:

and these metrics should account for shared memory usage too

[18:02:31]

Geoff918:

:superm1: Fair enough. thank you for your input

[18:02:56]

Geoff918:

Thank you everyone for the information. It's certainly help me solidify my purchase decision and overall project direction. :)

[18:03:50]

Dagmar:

superm1: It would be easier to argue as to whether session-management functionality is actually providing anything useful to a frontend

[18:04:12]

Dagmar:

People who want to strip things down further can always use blackbox/fluxbox

[18:04:30]

superm1:

Dagmar, for a fully configured frontend probably not. but when you want to be able to to tweak, it makes it far easier

[18:04:46]

superm1:

and less tech savvy people can tweak then too

[18:05:04]

Dagmar:

How does session-management help them "tweak"?

[18:05:15]

superm1:

you close the frontend and you have a GUI to work from

[18:05:29]

superm1:

don't have to know how to SSH in and run application X, modify file Y

[18:05:38]

Dagmar:

So what's that got to do with session-managment?

[18:06:18]

superm1:

you run a session that autospawns myth frontend and then leaves a familiar gui running behind it

[18:06:21]

LtChambers:

mchou: what did you mean that XBMC is a "roach motel" ?

[18:06:32]

superm1:

when mythfrontend isn't running, you can get to said GUI

[18:06:54]

Dagmar:

superm1: *sigh* So how is that functionally different from an ~/.xinitrc file spawning the frontend after it spawns the window manager?

[18:07:13]

Dagmar:

I'll put it more bluntly. Session-management isn't doing anything useful here.

[18:07:22]

superm1:

you dont have dbus running, you dont have somewhere to go browse files, or run control panel like tools

[18:07:25]

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[18:07:29]

superm1:

believe it or not, they're quite useful to people

[18:07:40]

Dagmar:

Session management doesn't facilitate anything but dbus there.

[18:07:52]

Dagmar:

File browsers work fine without session-management.

[18:07:58]

Dagmar:

Control panels work fine without session-management.

[18:08:05]

superm1:

um no

[18:08:09]

Dagmar:

Um yes.

[18:08:12]

superm1:

not when they're dependent on dbus

[18:08:26]

Dagmar:

Believe it or not we were doing these things long before session-management software was commonly available.

[18:08:50]

superm1:

yeah and welcome to the current world where there is a system bus intended for applications on the system to talk to one another

[18:08:53]

Dagmar:

That some tools were built to "require" dbus is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

[18:09:01]

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[18:09:09]

Dagmar:

Ah so who's using dbus for intra-machine communications?

[18:09:30]

Dagmar:

I say this because I'm using Blackbox, dbus is not running, and I can do all that

[18:09:55]

Dagmar:

Blackbox's footprint < 1Mb

[18:09:56]

superm1:

any of the package kit type interfacing programs, power management,

[18:10:09]

superm1:

network manager

[18:10:19]

superm1:

current screensavers

[18:10:21]

superm1:

anything that uses console kit

[18:10:24]

superm1:

hal

[18:10:29]

Dagmar:

Network-manager doesn't need session management from within X to work

[18:10:40]

superm1:

go and try to configure it without a dbus session manager running

[18:10:42]

superm1:

good luck

[18:11:14]

superm1:

if you are just using it for regular ethernet fine, it's automagic, but otherwise you'll need to do it from within one of it's frontends on a session managed interface

[18:11:25]

superm1:

oh and the list goes on, bluetooth

[18:11:41]

superm1:

any applications that are trying to use avahi

[18:12:13]

superm1:

so like i said, if you are on an already configured box, you can probably get away with a window manager and starting myth, but when you need to go and tweak using any of the above tools or interfaces, you'll want dbus running

[18:12:19]

Dagmar:

*sigh* It doesn't need X session-management to do dbus

[18:12:29]

Dagmar:

I build these things from source at least every two months.

[18:12:39]

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[18:12:44]

superm1:

good for you

[18:12:44]

Dagmar:

...and I have to work out how they're currently interfacing with each other every time.

[18:13:05]

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[18:13:09]

superm1:

most of us don't care that much to figure that out and prefer to use functional solutions

[18:13:14]

Dagmar:

I'm saying it's not necessary.

[18:13:39]

superm1:

all your extra work to ignore current tools and interfaces isn't necessary

[18:14:03]

Dagmar:

It's not extra work.

[18:14:06]

Dagmar:

I have to do _less_

[18:14:11]

superm1:

"<Dagmar> ...and I have to work out how they're currently interfacing with each other every time."

[18:14:13]

Dagmar:

...and it all still works fine.

[18:14:42]

Dagmar:

Yes, this means I know exactly what they're doing. Not that I'm having to work around things.

[18:14:44]

superm1:

anyway, i'm a technical person trying to speak for the average Joe. and trying to help obfuscate unnecessary complexities to them

[18:15:07]

superm1:

that's what the common theme is in these more modern interfaces between applications

[18:15:39]

Dagmar:

No the only "common theme" here is justifying the extra overhead of still trying to fun a functioally-overloaded desktop on a dedicated frontend

[18:16:58]

superm1:

it's only a matter of time until myth starts talking to different parts of the system via dbus

[18:17:15]

Dagmar:

When that happens, then I'll worry about it.

[18:17:26]

Dagmar:

At the present time it's not using dbus for anything.

[18:17:45]

superm1:

good, because i've got a patch queued up for it already

[18:18:19]

Dagmar:

Good for you.

[18:18:28]

Dagmar:

In the meantime, everything I said was still correct.

[18:21:35]

Dagmar:

...an I'm still wanting to stab udev in it's stupid face.

[18:21:44]

Dagmar:

I love race conditions so much

[18:22:07]

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[18:22:09]

Dagmar:

I'm sure I can lob in a udev rule to fix this if I can just find something useful to hook.

[18:22:40]

Dagmar:

PVR-500 tuner 1 is on /dev/video0, PVR-500 tuner 2 is on /dev/video2.

[18:22:51]

Dagmar:

HD-PVR managed to get /dev/video1 _this time_

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[18:23:51]

Dagmar:

If I boot without it plugged in and then plug it in later, the first ones will go to video0 and 1 like usual, and the HD-PVR will go to /dev/video2 and I can't help but think that's going to go horribly wrong somewhere

[18:24:04]

tcpsyn:

Is there something I need to do to get my User Jobs to run automatically? I've got a job checked "Allow Job1" in mythtv setup, and it works if I manually run the job, but it's not running on its own

[18:24:36]

Dagmar:

Did you tell it to actually run the user job on the recording?

[18:24:52]

tcpsyn:

No, Can I do that globally somewhere?

[18:24:55]

Dagmar:

...and I'm not talking about telling it to do it manually.

[18:25:04]

Dagmar:

It's in there when you set up the recording rule.

[18:25:21]

tcpsyn:

Ah

[18:25:34]

Dagmar:

Yeah I'm not sure why there's a global allow

[18:25:56]

tcpsyn:

some of the stuff I schedule by just hitting "r" on the guide

[18:25:57]

Dagmar:

...unless someone saw a reason where it might be useful to temporarily disable all user jobs.

[18:26:00]

tcpsyn:

guess that won't work

[18:27:12]

Dagmar:

You *might* be able to assign one to a recording group

[18:27:26]

Dagmar:

I'm not the least bit sure about that tho

[18:27:56]

tcpsyn:

In Post Processing of the job rules, I can enable Transcoding, but I don't see where I can run a User Job

[18:29:34]

tcpsyn:

It has "Commercial Flag New Recordings", "Transcode new recordings" with a select box and the transcoding profiles, and then 4 "Transcode new recordings" checkboxes.

[18:29:49]

tcpsyn:

Maybe those 4 are the user jobs labeled incorrectly?

[18:30:50]

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[18:30:56]

trumee:

i have a/v sync problems when transcoding sdtv with mencoder. anybody knows how to correct this.

[18:31:18]

iamlindoro:

it would probably be beter to ask in #mplayer

[18:31:30]

trumee:

i used mythencode.pl which is in the contrib. the recordings are done with pvr-250 analog tuner

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[18:42:25]

afm:

greetings all. I have followed this http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Hauppauge_HD-PVR#S . . . _Transmitter and can't seem to get anything back from irw...the lirc_zilog and hdpvr module load just fine. no errors in lirc...

[18:43:20]

afm:

running fc12

[18:44:43]

Josh_Borke:

afm: dude, where'd you find fc12? i've only been able to find f12, please tell me how to be a cool kid

[18:44:46]

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[18:44:55]

Dagmar:

Why are you trying to use irw for a transmit?

[18:45:27]

afm:

well trying to make sure something goes in...just above that link...sorry

[18:45:55]

Dagmar:

irw isn't even mentioned on that page.

[18:46:20]

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[18:48:44]

afm:

irw is what you use to see if you can/do see any anything going in via the remote before translating it to the proper stb code set right?

[18:49:02]

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[18:49:29]

iamlindoro:

no, mode2 shows you raw input, irw requires a properly configured lircd.conf

[18:50:34]

Dagmar:

...more importantly, irw is only useful for listening for *incoming* IR from lircd

[18:51:22]

Dagmar:

If your STB has a firewire option, omg you would rather use it

[18:51:42]

Dagmar:

30s of work and you are done

[18:52:30]

afm:

will hook it up and use the 6200ch script?

[18:53:19]

Dagmar:

Do you have an STB which uses that same protocol?

[18:53:24]

Dagmar:

I guess ther'es one way to find out.

[18:54:01]

Dagmar:

I've got some new Comcast-branded box--it does appear it's using the same protocol as the 6200's did

[18:54:04]

afm:

i do..

[18:55:00]

Dagmar:

So run `plugreport` and look for the (likely) one node that matters so you can pass -n0 to 6200ch and give it a whack

[18:55:17]

Dagmar:

Weird read errors for nonexistant nodes are normal

[18:56:31]

iamlindoro:

-g $GUID will work even if the nodes change

[18:56:52]

Dagmar:

Ah tehre's an idea

[18:57:30]

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[19:10:48]

afm:

well firewire changes the channel to 1 per the starting channel

[19:11:10]

afm:

and how to blast from remote to firewire?

[19:14:22]

afm:

interesting...even when the stb is changed via its remote...hdpv wtill records channel 1....

[19:14:56]

Dagmar:

You're not supposed to mess with the STB anymore once it's hooked to Myth.

[19:15:10]

Dagmar:

It has no way of knowing you just bypassed it and changed the channel.

[19:15:29]

afm:

i understand...

[19:15:47]

afm:

very large buffer it appears...finally changed

[19:16:11]

Dagmar:

I'm assuming that once Myth can see your remote signals, it'll send them along via firewire

[19:18:56]

afm:

ok...semi ack to square1...since i can't find anything wrong with lirc

[19:19:54]

afm:

hmm the transmitter port in hardware.conf perhaps?

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[20:13:03]

afm:

can't seem to find the right spdif pass thru settings for my hdpvr...recommended links?

[20:13:06]

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[20:13:15]

Dagmar:

Be more specific.

[20:13:43]

Dagmar:

If you've got something listening on the digital audio output, I'm not sure that actually works

[20:14:04]

Dagmar:

It doesn't seem to work here, but I've not had time to really poke at it

[20:14:26]

Dagmar:

I can't really think of any other reason there'd be an output there tho

[20:17:08]

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[20:19:33]

charmin:

Help, I can not configure the audio of my saa7130

[20:20:12]

charmin:

only sound if I put the speakers out of the frame grabber ...

[20:22:39]

afm:

going from stb to hdpr and the out from hdpvr to pc via spdif...not sure how to be more specific

[20:24:37]

abqjp:

afm: why would you want to do that? The S/PDIF out from the HD-PVR is so you can pass it through to a TV. Why would you want to use it to hook it up to the PC?

[20:24:38]

wagnerrp:

the HDPVR does not have any outputs

[20:24:54]

wagnerrp:

youre not trying to capture the passthrough with some SPDIF in on your PC are you?

[20:26:38]

afm:

hdpvr says opt out?

[20:26:54]

wagnerrp:

it is a capture device, it does not do output

[20:27:16]

wagnerrp:

those are just passthrough ports, to let you install the HDPVR in-line with your tv

[20:29:46]

charmin:

I do not understand what they say ... So configured, but I work ... http://www.mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-7.html

[20:31:07]

oobe:

anyone know why when i add a movie to tmdb tmdb.pl still cant find it for a while

[20:31:18]

wagnerrp:

because tmdb has cache servers

[20:31:19]

oobe:

i think im missing somthing i need to add to the database

[20:31:30]

wagnerrp:

your additions may not show up for several hours to a day or more

[20:31:36]

oobe:

tmdb.pl has cache servers?

[20:31:52]

charmin:

does not work ... can not find the option via the GUI and console does not work

[20:32:02]

oobe:

somtimes it seems to be more than a few days

[20:32:03]

wagnerrp:

themoviedb.org has cache servers, yes

[20:35:03]

oobe:

ok i guess i will wait more

[20:35:17]

oobe:

seems like it already has been 2 days

[20:35:20]

wagnerrp:

did you specify a imdb number for that movie?

[20:35:27]

oobe:

was thinking tmdb.pl uses cache aswell

[20:35:32]

wagnerrp:

tmdb.pl still works off the imdb numbers

[20:35:38]

oobe:

yes i did use the imdb number

[20:35:49]

wagnerrp:

so if an imdb number for that movie is not specified on the tmdb site, tmdb.pl will fail

[20:35:49]

oobe:

but thought i might of missed somthing else that was important

[20:35:52]

wagnerrp:

what movie?

[20:36:01]

oobe:

tart 2001

[20:36:11]

oobe:

can u test this /usr/share/mythtv/mythvideo/scripts/tmdb.pl -M tart

[20:38:37]

wagnerrp:

yeah... i cant see why it wouldnt be accessible

[20:39:02]

wagnerrp:

im not picking it up, and everything seems to be in order on tmdb

[20:39:02]

oobe:

its ok same thing has happened in the past

[20:39:07]

oobe:

it will turn up eventually

[20:39:46]

wagnerrp:

unless the tmdb api/cache servers are down

[20:39:50]

wagnerrp:

thats entirely a possibility

[20:40:37]

wagnerrp:

here we go... http://forums.themoviedb.org/topic/873/proble . . . -title-here/

[20:40:40]

iamlindoro:

TMDB only recaches one or twice a week now

[20:40:50]

iamlindoro:

so two adys is within spec

[20:40:52]

wagnerrp:

i thought that was done automatically, seems not

[20:40:53]

iamlindoro:

er days

[20:40:56]

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[20:41:46]

oobe:

yea no big deal

[20:41:58]

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[20:42:06]

oobe:

half the point of adding stuff is to make the db more complete

[20:42:06]

mattwj2002:

hi everyone

[20:42:10]

mattwj2002:

have you seen this?

[20:42:10]

mattwj2002:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSkEMpprizo

[20:42:21]

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[20:42:26]

kormoc:

mattwj2002: yes, and no linux support

[20:42:51]

mattwj2002:

that is crap!

[20:43:10]

kormoc:

That is cable card licensing terms at work

[20:43:13]

Dagmar:

It's time to sell their stock short

[20:43:27]

Dagmar:

They've put a lot of money into a product that's going to go nowhere.

[20:43:28]

Dagmar:

They're done

[20:43:40]

Dagmar:

CableCard is dead, dead, dead.

[20:44:20]

mattwj2002:

what is going to replace CableCard?

[20:44:20]

Dagmar:

NOW that it's dead and the FCC has proclaimed it so, of _course_ it becomes comcast's new best tech

[20:44:29]

Dagmar:

mattwj2002: More monopoly fees

[20:45:26]

mattwj2002:

:(

[20:47:03]

peterpan13_ptl:

Hi. I have an hvr-1600, and have my cable split before going into the analog and digital inputs on the card.... my hdtv, without myth, is able to tune into channel 31, for example, without a problem... however, I can't get either the digital or analog tuners to receive this channel through myth.... with analog, I just get static instead of ESPN standard def, which is what it should be receiving... on digital QAM-256, it

[20:47:03]

mattwj2002:

tv is going to heck

[20:47:03]

peterpan13_ptl:

pick up the channel during the channel scan (but does receive channels like 11.1, 5.1, 5.2, etc fine).... any ideas on how I can receive this channel 31 (espn standard def) through myth?

[20:48:06]

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[20:49:09]

mchou:

peterpan13_ptl: what's your zip code?

[20:49:27]

peterpan13_ptl:

27607... Raleigh, NC – Time Warner Cable

[20:51:10]

mchou:

peterpan13_ptl: umm, I'm not seeing espn as a digital (SD) channel there

[20:51:32]

Dagmar:

peterpan13_ptl: You install an analog tuner like a PVR-150 or PVR-500

[20:51:57]

Dagmar:

Yes, I am quite serious about that.

[20:52:16]

mchou:

hvr1600 has analog

[20:52:23]

mchou:

as well as digital

[20:52:37]

afm:

pardon my ignorance....but i can't audio input: spdif in on my hdpvr, and then pass it thru to my pc which then passes thru to my stereo?

[20:52:44]

peterpan13_ptl:

I don't know whether channel 31 is digital or analog, actually... I just know that my tv, without myth, can pick it up.... and that the analog side of the hvr-1600 isn't tuning it, it's just static

[20:52:57]

Dagmar:

afm: What you need to do for that is documented on the wiki.

[20:53:03]

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[20:53:08]

afm:

i'll check again

[20:53:09]

afm:

thanks

[20:53:22]

Dagmar:

afm: ...and if your dmesg is still saying you have 0xf firmware it won't work anyway

[20:53:38]

mchou:

peterpan13_ptl: according to silicondust web site espn is not in the clear on the digital side in your area

[20:54:08]

peterpan13_ptl:

hmmmm... how is my tv able to pick it up straight from the cable signal?

[20:54:12]

mchou:

peterpan13_ptl: which would imply that it's being broadcast analog

[20:54:30]

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[20:54:38]

kormoc:

you have a digital tuner in your tv?

[20:54:53]

Dagmar:

peterpan13_ptl: Because the channels in your lineup that you "see" through the fancy digital cable box that match exactly the older analog lineup are exactly that. They're the older analog lineup, in analog.

[20:54:53]

peterpan13_ptl:

I am able to get channels 2–13 fine through analog input.... but above 13 it's all showing static through the hvr-1600

[20:55:10]

kormoc:

peterpan13_ptl: change the frequency table?

[20:55:11]

Dagmar:

1–82 are so are pretty much going to _not_ be digital .

[20:55:34]

Dagmar:

If you're only picking up 2 through 13 you need to set the proper frequency table.

[20:56:17]

peterpan13_ptl:

okay, I'll do some reading to find out what I should set the freq. table to.... thank you!

[20:56:32]

Dagmar:

How about "us-cable"

[20:56:43]

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[20:56:56]

peterpan13_ptl:

haha, I thought I had it set to that, but I must not have

[20:57:52]

Dagmar:

...or there's more broken in that driver than we thought.

[20:58:09]

peterpan13_ptl:

thank you, I'll take a look! you all sound pretty sure that these channels will all be analog.... I'll definitely explore that...

[20:59:02]

Dagmar:

I'm very sure they're analog.

[20:59:10]

Dagmar:

I have Comcast here in Nashville, TN.

[20:59:32]

peterpan13_ptl:

great, thanks Dagmar and mchou

[21:00:15]

peterpan13_ptl:

let me try right now, and I'll let you know how it goes in a few minutes

[21:03:39]

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[21:06:26]

peterpan13_ptl:

no dice

[21:08:02]

peterpan13_ptl:

when I added the channels last night, I did it using Fetch instead of Scan..... just now, I tried Scanning instead on the analog side.... it supposedly locked and updated the channels.... however, when I went to view them (31, for example, again), I got static

[21:08:08]

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[21:09:59]

peterpan13_ptl:

do I need to remove the analog card entry in myth, reconfigure it, then have it scan the channels again?

[21:10:56]

Dagmar:

First plug the coax into a television

[21:11:06]

Dagmar:

Make sure they're actually sending you the analog signal they're supposed to be

[21:11:31]

Dagmar:

Scanning analog in this case is two things

[21:11:35]

Dagmar:

1. Pointless

[21:11:38]

Dagmar:

2. Not going to help.

[21:12:06]

wagnerrp:

3. Not working in mythtv

[21:12:18]

Dagmar:

The only rason you "scan" QAM is becasue the channel numbers (i.e. "5.1", "8.2") have eff-all to do with what frequency they're broadcast on

[21:12:44]

Dagmar:

They could be on any frequency the cable company feels like putting them on.

[21:12:53]

Dagmar:

The same is _not_ true of analog NTSC broadcast.

[21:13:04]

Dagmar:

Channel 21 is *always* going to be on one specific frequency

[21:13:31]

Dagmar:

The differences between the "us-cable" and the "us-cable-irc" and "us-cable-hrc" frequencies is only minor

[21:13:47]

Dagmar:

Setting the wrong one will mean bad reception, not _just static_

[21:14:22]

peterpan13_ptl:

where do I set the freq. table in analog on myth, if not on the "Scan" screen? did I miss that?

[21:15:09]

Dagmar:

The screen where you set the starting channel, right next to the freaking scan and fetch buttons

[21:15:37]

peterpan13_ptl:

crap, I must *have* missed it – sorry

[21:18:08]

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[21:18:50]

peterpan13_ptl:

sweeeeeet!

[21:19:16]

peterpan13_ptl:

I didn't find that setting on that screen, but rather on the Input config. screen instead

[21:19:49]

peterpan13_ptl:

it works — awesome! thank you, Dagmar

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oobe:

http://www.insidiousramblings.com/images/Black-Alien/

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[22:04:07]

Hilikus:

skip back is not working on live tv. has anyone experienced this?

[22:05:35]

oobe:

Hilikus, you mean you can reverse of ffwd

[22:06:07]

oobe:

if so the only thing i know of that causes this is using a remote frontend that is out of sync time wise with the backend

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[22:08:17]

Hilikus:

if i pause (so i'm not at the end of the stream) and skip forward then skip back works

[22:08:41]

Hilikus:

if i skip forward but i'm at the end of the stream it doesnt fix it

[22:09:35]

oobe:

ok doesnt sound like what i suggested

[22:10:12]

oobe:

actually it still could be

[22:10:38]

oobe:

make sure your frontend is using the same ntp servers

[22:10:50]

Hilikus:

yes, its all in the same box

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[22:11:07]

oobe:

ok well you didnt say that

[22:11:35]

oobe:

try looking at the frontend logs pastebin them here would be useful

[22:12:18]

Dagmar:

possibly seektable corruption

[22:13:24]

oobe:

Dagmar, if so would running optimise and repair scripts work

[22:13:35]

Hilikus:

Dagmar i thought that was only for recordings, not live tv

[22:13:35]

oobe:

actually easier in mythweb

[22:14:29]

oobe:

http://localhost/mythweb/settings/database check here anyway cause that sounds like a good suggestion dagmar made

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[22:17:11]

Dagmar:

oobe: Maybe

[22:17:29]

Dagmar:

I've no idea what _optimizing_ would have to do ith it

[22:17:46]

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[22:18:18]

oobe:

well i forgot when i asked but using those scripts have fixed broken seektables for me before

[22:18:34]

oobe:

using the ones in mythweb that run when you click it

[22:21:43]

Hilikus:

is the name of the table seektable?

[22:21:49]

Hilikus:

i don't see that in mythweb

[22:22:02]

wagnerrp:

thats not the name of the table

[22:22:15]

Dagmar:

lol

[22:23:57]

Hilikus:

ok

[22:24:12]

oobe:

just click optimise and repair links

[22:24:28]

oobe:

should take you less than a minute and if it doesnt work

[22:24:34]

oobe:

yuo can look elsewhere

[22:25:08]

Hilikus:

ok, i can't reproduce it so that either fixed it or its an intermitent problem

[22:25:17]

Hilikus:

thanks guys

[22:28:06]

kormoc:

seek tables are used for live tv, we write them as we record

[22:29:41]

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[22:31:19]

QbY:

I need a solution. I have Comcast currently and often find that I've recorded on one DVR but need to watch on another for whatever reason--DVR won't do this. So I'm looking for something that will record series, and other "one-time" recordings using my PCTV 800i card so that I can play back on the xbox360 or PC... Is MythTV my answer?

[22:31:42]

kormoc:

It's an answer, yes

[22:32:21]

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[22:32:34]

QbY:

is it a good answer? :) or the best? i want something fairly simple, records to the native mpeg2 or divx the card will capture in..

[22:32:53]

QbY:

and won't require 2 weeks of configuration..

[22:33:08]

kormoc:

As a myth dev, I feel it's the best and simple enough, but as always YMMV

[22:33:30]

Hilikus:

ok, the bug is back, i didn't do anything, just after some time of recording. i just reran repair, optimize and extended check and nothing

[22:33:56]

kormoc:

if it's a corrupt seek table, you won't get historic recordings working by fixing the table, just new ones

[22:34:23]

Hilikus:

ive never had the problem with scheduled recordings though

[22:34:33]

Hilikus:

and i can fix it with the workaround i mentioned

[22:34:43]

Hilikus:

pause and skip forward

[22:35:32]

Hilikus:

would a corrupt table somehow be fixed by this? i wouldnt think so but i dont know the internal details

[22:35:45]

QbY:

kormoc.. if i say, record "24"; will it automatically record every episode.. save it in the format (mpeg2/divx) and place them on a share?

[22:36:25]

kormoc:

QbY: yes, you can do that sort of recording schedule

[22:36:43]

kormoc:

Hilikus: you ran the repair task as oobe said, right?

[22:36:43]

QbY:

now i've read that it uses zap2it.. but aren't they out of biz?

[22:36:51]

Hilikus:

yes

[22:36:51]

kormoc:

QbY: schedulesdirect.org

[22:36:59]

kormoc:

Hilikus: that would fix a corrupt table, yes

[22:37:45]

kormoc:

zap2it was just a free service of tribune, Schedules direct purchases the tribune data and resells it for a low yearly fee so you can still get listings data

[22:37:57]

kormoc:

and as a nonprofit, we make nothing from it

[22:38:06]

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[22:39:00]

QbY:

cools

[22:39:21]

QbY:

i just want something simple.. the frontends look nice, but not necessary for me..

[22:41:37]

Hilikus:

brb

[22:41:39]

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[23:09:52]

oobe:

http://www.insidiousramblings.com/files/fart.tar.bz2

[23:13:10]

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iamlindoro:

oobe, Don't do that please

[23:19:21]

oobe:

ok its my little funny thing

[23:19:26]

oobe:

but ok

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wagnerrp:

looks like boxee is going to start allowing paid content

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