Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Thursday, January 21st, 2010, 00:02 AST

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[00:57:26]

oobe:

wagnerrp, e.g on paid content?

[00:57:32]

elmojo:

iamlindoro: how well does the EVO container playback for you?

[00:58:41]

iamlindoro:

elmojo, fairly decently last time I checked

[00:59:19]

elmojo:

do you build seek tables for them?

[01:00:02]

wagnerrp:

oobe: theyre going to start offering a paid content some time this summer

[01:00:44]

oobe:

like netflix etc.

[01:01:00]

wagnerrp:

like their own service

[01:01:04]

iamlindoro:

elmojo, yeah

[01:01:34]

elmojo:

ok... looks like native ffmpeg seeking isn't so great

[01:01:42]

[R]:

oh FFS... i wantd to set up a windows vm in virtualbox headless... totally forgot

[01:02:08]

elmojo:

iamlindoro: doubt it's going to be a high priority given the demise of HD-DVD

[01:02:17]

oobe:

wagnerrp, i dont like boxee at all

[01:03:00]

oobe:

from my perspective they took open source code modified and and made it hard to build in linux provided no support and force you to register to dload the code

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[01:03:18]

iamlindoro:

elmojo, yeah, suspect you're right

[01:04:13]

elmojo:

looks like mythavtest doesn't work anymore

[01:05:10]

oobe:

http://my-trac.assembla.com/libbluray anyone seen this

[01:06:03]

iamlindoro:

yes

[01:06:14]

elmojo:

no comment

[01:06:30]

[R]:

oobe: like 2 weeks ago

[01:06:56]

oobe:

i still dont possess any blu ray stuff

[01:07:17]

oobe:

but looks like by the time they charge what its worth linux should fully support it

[01:07:32]

[R]:

until bluray support works like dvd support

[01:07:35]

[R]:

i dont plan on it either

[01:10:55]

wagnerrp:

[R]: you currently play dvds through mythtv?

[01:11:00]

[R]:

yes

[01:11:09]

oobe:

also im not paying $300 for a blu ray burner or 10$ for a blank disc

[01:11:12]

[R]:

but i mean in general linux

[01:11:14]

[R]:

not myth specific

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[01:11:54]

wagnerrp:

ah... ive just found its easier to spend the five minutes needed to set up a rip

[01:12:36]

Dagmar:

Bluray support is highly unlikely to work like DVD support anytime even remotely soon

[01:12:38]

[R]:

most of the time it "just works"

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[R]:

Dagmar: why not

[01:13:08]

Dagmar:

Too much patent stuff in the way, and as far as I know there's pretty much zero expectation that anyone's ever going to release an unencrypted mass-market blu-ray disc

[01:13:16]

wagnerrp:

no one wants to stick their neck out

[01:13:26]

Dagmar:

...while there's just piles and piles of unencrypted DVDs

[01:13:31]

[R]:

that libbluray has some lofty goals

[01:18:00]

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[01:19:24]

oobe:

so if i installed a blu ray rom drive then install libbluray and played a blu ray disk bought from the shops it still wouldnt work?

[01:19:51]

wagnerrp:

libbluray is nowhere near functional

[01:20:17]

wagnerrp:

theres not yet enough to even begin setting up a player to link against it for playback

[01:21:44]

oobe:

ok

[01:22:34]

oobe:

i remember when dvd burners were new i didnt buy one till they were around 100$ down from $500 i will do the same with blu ray

[01:22:54]

oobe:

even if decryption still doesnt work will make a nice backup media

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[01:23:17]

wagnerrp:

to be honest, i doubt there will ever be worth in backing up to bluray

[01:23:22]

[R]:

omg... i hate distributions and i hate packages... apt-get said i had to install a few dozen packages to install virtualbox... i got the .bin and it "just works" w/o stupid extra crap

[01:24:11]

wagnerrp:

right now, even SL-DVDs are only ~20% cheaper than just buying a 1.5TB disk

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wagnerrp:

not to mention the time and hassle needed to swap out those ~350 disks

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[R]:

does netflix require xp?

[01:24:56]

oobe:

yeah i mean when you can buy 50 spindles for 1$ or less per unit

[01:24:56]

wagnerrp:

s/xp/windows/

[01:24:57]

wagnerrp:

yes

[01:25:05]

[R]:

it'll work in 2k?

[01:25:10]

wagnerrp:

they require silverlight

[01:25:20]

wagnerrp:

any OS that can run silverlight can run netflix streaming

[01:25:24]

[R]:

hrm

[01:26:14]

[R]:

this website says you need to hack the user agent, but it works in 2k

[01:26:16]

wagnerrp:

DL-DVDs are hardly even to the $1 mark

[01:26:23]

oobe:

i dont come accross sites that use silverlight but there is a ff linux plugin called moonlight i think

[01:26:34]

wagnerrp:

moonlight wont cut it

[01:26:39]

wagnerrp:

has to be silverlight

[01:26:50]

oobe:

yeah last i tried it didnt work

[01:26:53]

Dagmar:

Moonlight has a ways to go yet

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[R]:

i wonder what's "lighter"

[01:27:57]

[R]:

xp or 2k3

[01:28:14]

wagnerrp:

looks like newegg has SL-BR for $2/disk

[01:28:35]

wagnerrp:

which puts it currently slightly more expensive than hard drives

[01:29:14]

oobe:

yea i see what you mean

[01:29:29]

wagnerrp:

dual layer are still well over $10/disk

[01:30:34]

wagnerrp:

anyway... its going to be cheaper, lighter, and FAR FAR faster, to just buy up spare hard drives, and stuff them in a cabinet with some desiccant

[01:31:09]

jchance:

has anyone got rendering in MythTV 0.22 working properly with the amd hd 4600's and higher using fglrx? i am ready to scream from trying to

[01:31:14]

wagnerrp:

assuming youre not letting them sit for the decade or so necessary for the bearings to dry up, theyre probably more reliable too

[01:31:22]

jchance:

with opengl that is

[01:31:45]

Dagmar:

jchance: Smart people go get an nvidia card and use that one you have as an ice scraper in cold weather

[01:32:08]

wagnerrp:

the 4-series are supposed to be fairly well supported

[01:32:17]

wagnerrp:

apparently they even have hardware acceleration now too

[01:32:43]

Dagmar:

jchance: Have you tried seeing if glxgears "behaves"?

[01:32:48]

Dagmar:

It would be less complex than myth

[01:33:04]

jchance:

Dagmar: OUCH.. um then why is an amd at half the cost if not less now showing as good if not better bench marks then high proced nvidias..lol

[01:33:21]

Dagmar:

jchance: because fast doesn't matter if you can't make it _stable_

[01:33:33]

Dagmar:

...then you have to drop the price just to get people to buy your crap.

[01:33:50]

jchance:

Dagmar: everything is working otherwise it runs beautifully... it is drawing the UI with mythtv it isn't ok

[01:34:01]

Dagmar:

So stop being thick about it

[01:34:06]

Dagmar:

Use glxgears to test.

[01:34:19]

wagnerrp:

if glxgears is smooth, then the problem is with myth

[01:34:32]

wagnerrp:

if glxgears is jerky, or crashes, the problem is your driver

[01:34:32]

Dagmar:

Either glxgears will render correctly in full screen and give you five digit frame rates, or you don't actually have a mythtv problem

[01:35:08]

jchance:

Dagmar i have.. everything is working.. i can even use the accelerated mac interface because even though linux it is still what an mac uses.. have used glx and fgl_glxgears to test everything it all works

[01:35:11]

Dagmar:

You can try being snarky about nvidia all you like but the fact of the matter is that their cards have been comparatively trouble free under Linux for a long time now.

[01:35:22]

Dagmar:

Which one gets higher frame rates in some FPS shooter doesn't mean a damn thing

[01:35:34]

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[01:35:38]

wagnerrp:

'accelerated mac interface'?

[01:36:05]

Dagmar:

Sounds like an unsupported and likely not-going-to-work hardware combination to me

[01:36:22]

jchance:

wagnerrp: yep i can set all my settings on renderers to the mac accelerated quartz interface and it works.. pretty good actually

[01:36:42]

wagnerrp:

thats because it falls through to Xv

[01:36:49]

wagnerrp:

because youre on linux, there is no quartz

[01:37:05]

jchance:

Dagmar this is a PC with Ubuntu.. messing around i tried the mac accelerated interface for laughs and giggles and it works

[01:37:13]

wagnerrp:

no, it doesnt

[01:37:18]

wagnerrp:

it doesnt exist

[01:37:22]

Dagmar:

great! then you don't have a problem anymore. glad we could help with that

[01:37:22]

wagnerrp:

because youre not running OSX

[01:38:16]

jchance:

wagnerrrp: why didn't the render fail then? having no other option but that is a side note.. i am trying to get everything in mythtv set to opengl with no luck.. rendering menus has major issues

[01:38:33]

Dagmar:

So use the Qt renderer

[01:38:42]

wagnerrp:

jchance: because apparently it fell through to Xv as the backup option

[01:38:51]

jchance:

Dagmar that was not the issue and no reason to start with me like you did from second one getting on me for having AMD.. so what?

[01:39:07]

Dagmar:

So use the Qt renderer and stop trying to act indignant

[01:39:12]

jchance:

i cam here for help

[01:39:30]

Dagmar:

Problems with ATI's driver are _well known_

[01:39:47]

Dagmar:

The most merciful thing we can do for most people is suggest finding a $35 nVidia card

[01:39:50]

wagnerrp:

jchance: for the last several years ive been using mythtv, there have been nothing but complaints from ATI users in here

[01:39:53]

jchance:

Dagmar: i am and trying to get this working with opengl even if it is the renderer for video and the menus are in qt

[01:40:08]

Dagmar:

So if all you're going to do is bitch and complain, you have fun with that

[01:40:33]

Dagmar:

jchance: And wagnerrp is telling you that GL rendering likely does not work

[01:40:47]

Dagmar:

...an I'm noticing that you said nothing about five-digit frame rates

[01:41:09]

Dagmar:

If OpenGL is working, glxgears is so simple the frame rates it reports are insanely high.

[01:41:13]

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[01:41:14]

jchance:

Dagmar: get off your holier then though high horse.. i have not complained, whined, or bitched once.. i came here for help and you started on me for owning amd

[01:41:23]

Dagmar:

Simply because it doesn't explode and take your desk with it doesn't mean anything

[01:41:32]

wagnerrp:

the ATI drivers are getting better, but they have a long history of being glitchy under linux

[01:41:35]

Dagmar:

Welcome to the ignore list, guy

[01:41:57]

wagnerrp:

and when youre using mythtv, price is irrelevant, because anything over $50 is far more than you need

[01:42:09]

jchance:

Dagmar it does work.. what is wrong is how mythtv renders stuff.. you know drawing.. it draws a new gl window and the other one it had there does not move or anything it stays as the one of focus

[01:42:41]

Dagmar:

You wanna gibber about how much cheaper your _not acutally working_ solution is when we try to suggest that there's an entirely easier way to go about it, and then obsess over complaining instead of working on the problem? I'm not here for that. Focus on the problem, not whether or not I might have implied that your expensive little mac isn't doing you any good

[01:42:48]

wagnerrp:

mythtv renders just fine with opengl

[01:42:59]

wagnerrp:

no one has had any problems with nvidia or intel hardware

[01:43:05]

jchance:

Dagmar if me being on your iggy gets me someone who is willing to look and help someone with amd i am glad

[01:43:10]

wagnerrp:

and aside from being slow, no one has had problems running MESA either

[01:43:21]

wagnerrp:

but ATI users are always in here with some display problem or another

[01:43:27]

Dagmar:

Just about daily

[01:44:35]

jchance:

wagnerrp: it renders great in xv and i have it running 99.9 percent tear free.. i also have xvmc which is now supported in fglrx working nicely

[01:44:51]

wagnerrp:

jchance: and also worthless

[01:45:08]

wagnerrp:

because any machine running a 4600 is going to have plenty of CPU to otherwise decode mpeg2 in software

[01:46:12]

jchance:

wagnerrp: i know i am looking to see what it was working with.. i would like to get the va-api supported under mythtv it works so nicely with the xvba interface and mplayer at the moment

[01:47:43]

wagnerrp:

as far as i know, anyone who would be interested in doing such work is already happy with their VDPAU card, or are looking to implement CrystalHD

[01:47:58]

jchance:

wagnerrp: oh this machine definitely does have enough power to handle mpeg2 or mpeg 4 like avc with any other application and opengl with everything maxed to play beautifully

[01:48:19]

wagnerrp:

so why bother with VA-API?

[01:48:52]

jchance:

wagnerrp.. i found a supposed patch to the code online.. i haven't touched c or c++ in a decade.. was thinking of trying to patch the source if it is a legit one

[01:49:32]

Dagmar:

I'm having problems believing that bit about the mac interface

[01:49:44]

jchance:

wagnerrp: because instead of using a hell of a lot of processor when I am multitasking on the machine I want to be able to have it not running slow

[01:50:04]

Dagmar:

...and I suspect glxgears is likely showing a suspiciously low frame rate.

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[01:50:20]

wagnerrp:

the only thing vaapi would really help for would be bluray playback

[01:50:35]

wagnerrp:

even something like the HDPVR isnt going to be using more than one processor

[01:51:15]

Dagmar:

wagnerrp: That reminds me that I need to benchmark transcode a few times on that front

[01:51:26]

jchance:

Dagmar: don't believe me if i choose xv-blit as standard or under the mac accelerated profiles it plays.. i don't care if you do and food for thought.. osx is unix and the foundation for coco and the rest of mac gui is probably based on xwindows

[01:51:55]

Dagmar:

I had someone trying to sell me a bill of goods about hd-pvr playback benefiting more than a smidge from multiple cores

[01:52:03]

wagnerrp:

jchance: but quartz does not exist under linux, period

[01:52:12]

Dagmar:

...and that there was a difference enough for someone to give a damn about for compiling it as a static lib.

[01:52:19]

wagnerrp:

as you said, xv-blit was under quartz in your playback profile

[01:52:27]

wagnerrp:

meaning mythtv tried quartz

[01:52:36]

wagnerrp:

realized it was running linux, and quartz was not available

[01:52:42]

Dagmar:

...and could not *possibly* have used the quartz interface.

[01:52:43]

wagnerrp:

and fell through to the next option... xv-blit

[01:53:09]

jchance:

wagnerrp: i get that but it rendering he is saying i am full of.. whether it defaulted to xv or not i can not verify just saying what happened when i tried it

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[01:56:15]

jchance:

wagnerrp: accelerated quartz from what i understand access hardware directly from the application no middle layer like quartz so to speak.. i had it explained to me on how vesa directly accesses the hardware but with a lot larger extension set.. that is what had me thinking it might actually be to some extent

[01:56:38]

wagnerrp:

it accesses a middle layer... called a driver

[01:56:58]

wagnerrp:

the drivers have to provide support for such an interface

[01:57:02]

jchance:

wagnerrp: ok which amd consolidated all 3 os drivers into one

[01:57:33]

jchance:

wagnerrp: they just compile a version on each platform now

[01:59:24]

jchance:

wagnerrp: so in theory could the interface be there and accessible if fglrx had it compiled in being one driver for 3 platforms and where mythtv would have the code to access it, it wouldn't know the difference of the hardware being on bsd based mac osx or linux i would think

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[02:01:39]

jchance:

wagnerrp: would or would not mythtv being the means of direct interface say wait the driver reports the capability and then go for direct access.. it would seem to me where amd makes mac's gpu's pretty much exclusively and amd makes one driver for all 3 that it could be possible

[02:03:16]

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[02:03:31]

toeb:

hi, does anyone know who is responsible for the minimyth website/forum? I tried to register a new account but never got the confirmation email. I have tried 2 times..

[02:04:10]

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[02:04:15]

wagnerrp:

you can try the email at the bottom of the front page

[02:04:52]

wagnerrp:

you could pull up the source of the front page, to see the author's name written in the header

[02:05:52]

wagnerrp:

i have no idea whether or not that email is checked

[02:06:27]

toeb:

good idea :-) i will try this

[02:06:28]

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[02:07:39]

wagnerrp:

looks like his name shows up on the mailing list archives, so you can get a direct email from there

[02:09:23]

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[02:09:39]

wagnerrp:

ugh...

[02:11:57]

** wagnerrp considers just no longer talking to people attempting to use ATI hardware **

[02:12:19]

[R]:

lol

[02:12:32]

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[02:12:33]

Dagmar:

This is part of the reason I don't ever bother to argue with them anymore

[02:12:54]

Dagmar:

When they come back with some jibber about the _cost_ of the card, I know they're a zealot and they'r enot going to listen

[02:13:33]

wagnerrp:

'look at all this money i saved by buying a card 10x more powerful than myth needs'

[02:14:52]

Dagmar:

....and seriously if hte video card can't do fourteen-thousand frames per second of glxgears at full screen, your GL isn't working right.

[02:15:04]

Dagmar:

The 5200 I have will do about 14,000fps at 1024x768

[02:15:13]

Dagmar:

...and it won't help with much of anything but MPEG

[02:15:41]

wagnerrp:

that sounds awfully high

[02:15:46]

Dagmar:

That little check has been excellent as a quick litmus test on whether or not GL is working or just faking it

[02:16:05]

Dagmar:

wagnerrp: I know it does, but glxgears is only like 120 triangles

[02:16:10]

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[02:16:14]

Dagmar:

It's _really_ not asking much of the video card

[02:16:21]

wagnerrp:

granted, the last thing i ran glxgears on was a r128

[02:17:45]

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[02:18:06]

wagnerrp:

yeah, im only getting 800fps on my 8200 using whatever the default resolution it opens as

[02:18:56]

wagnerrp:

although the 8400 is getting 3400fps

[02:19:11]

wagnerrp:

didnt realize there was that much difference between those two chips

[02:19:11]

[R]:

hell i'm getting 3500

[02:19:14]

[R]:

on my intel laptop

[02:20:08]

Dagmar:

Interesting.

[02:20:19]

Dagmar:

I wonder if they've done somehting to clamp it down

[02:20:32]

Dagmar:

Xorg might take a different approach than Xfree86

[02:20:34]

wagnerrp:

i always thought the fps was fairly irrelevant

[02:20:45]

wagnerrp:

it was just whether the render was smooth or not

[02:20:46]

Dagmar:

That was how we determined whether or not the thing was working right back in 2001–2002

[02:21:09]

Dagmar:

You either got a number that screamed "MESA IS DOING IT" or you got some insanely high number

[02:21:24]

wagnerrp:

i get a couple hundred fps on my laptop whether hardware rendering is working or not

[02:21:40]

Dagmar:

yeah but is the hardware accel giving you a factor of ten or so more?

[02:21:44]

wagnerrp:

but the r128 display smoothly, while MESA is all jerky

[02:21:44]

Dagmar:

It's a huge difference

[02:22:01]

wagnerrp:

no, its like 300 (CPU) vs. 700 (r128)

[02:22:08]

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[02:22:18]

Dagmar:

Probably there may be some throttling going on now

[02:23:07]

Dagmar:

Shift is almost over, I can finally flee the building

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[03:30:18]

justinh:

hmmm. new IT guy seems to know what he's doing. this could mean trouble

[03:31:12]

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[03:31:14]

Tanthrix:

Time to setup an encrypted VPN to your home system in order to irc in peace

[03:31:50]

justinh:

using ssh on a port normally used by our DVRs

[03:32:09]

Tanthrix:

Clever!

[03:33:45]

justinh:

already had a word with me about using nmap to find a machine on the network here – I asked how else I'm supposed to find out when I don't have physical access to it & the powers that be insist on DHCP for everything

[03:35:36]

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[03:36:18]

superdump:

hehehe

[03:37:25]

Tanthrix:

Sounds like your days of IT abuse may be over, I'm afraid

[03:37:33]

Dagmar:

Nope.

[03:37:41]

Dagmar:

Not unless you go out of your way to attract attention.

[03:37:52]

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[03:38:01]

Dagmar:

From being on both sides of the fence, the ONLY way those jobs are livable is if you follow the Rule of Paperwork

[03:38:17]

Dagmar:

If it doesn't make more paperwork for you, you've got better things to do with your time.

[03:38:24]

justinh:

yeah I figure a trickle of text over ssh isn't much of a threat to network integrity

[03:38:40]

Dagmar:

It's also relatively unlikely to be noticed under most conditions.

[03:38:53]

Dagmar:

The only thing that makes them really stick out is the length of the session

[03:39:00]

Tanthrix:

That depends on whether or not you work for a BOFH

[03:39:13]

justinh:

nah he's an ok guy

[03:39:19]

justinh:

for an IT bloke anyway ;)

[03:39:26]

Tanthrix:

Well, if that's the case, you're probably fine.

[03:39:28]

Dagmar:

In real life, I used to *be* a BOFH.

[03:39:35]

Tanthrix:

You don't say!

[03:39:51]

Tanthrix:

With your ever cheery demeanor, it's hard to fathom..;)

[03:40:04]

Dagmar:

On a network of any size, as perverse as this sounds, there are ALWAYS things you can be doing to it that result in overall *less* work for you.

[03:40:10]

Dagmar:

...and those are the things you're doing.

[03:40:25]

Dagmar:

Anything you do to users is the means to that end or you're wasting both your own time and theirs.

[03:40:31]

Dagmar:

...and your own time is always more valuable.

[03:40:54]

Dagmar:

I had to implement password policy adherence auditing once.

[03:41:07]

justinh:

the company whittled four guys down to 2 over 2 years then recruited somebody who knows what he's doing & made the last 2 redundant

[03:41:10]

Dagmar:

I didn't just set up a _few_ rules to check for it.

[03:41:18]

Dagmar:

I wanted to never have to deal with the problem again.

[03:41:29]

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[03:41:51]

Dagmar:

So I gave the task over to a script running JtR with about 300 or so permutational rules and a 78Mb database of words in the native languages of everyone in the office.

[03:42:08]

Dagmar:

Yeah that last bit resulted in a 92% failure rate

[03:42:51]

justinh:

heh. our IT guy must be the complete opposite of a BoFH then. You want stupid password rules turned off.. bingo :)

[03:43:04]

Dagmar:

Result: They changed the policy a bit so I could drop out the more complex parts of that, and I never had to deal with the problem again

[03:43:28]

Dagmar:

At any time, a member of management with the proper creds could literally flip one switch and it would come back _if they wanted it_.

[03:43:33]

Dagmar:

More work, to do _less_ work

[03:43:45]

Tanthrix:

Password rules are so bloody irrational...I'm certain there is a direct correlation between them and post-it password notes tacked to monitors.

[03:43:47]

Dagmar:

Otherwise the network _eats_ you

[03:44:10]

Dagmar:

Tanthrix: There is, but more tightly bound to that is the number of times a user may try to type in their password before they're locked out.

[03:44:16]

justinh:

Tanthrix: yeah, not to mention support calls from people who can't remember passwords cos they change every week

[03:44:22]

Dagmar:

When it's below five, postit notes are EVERYWHERE

[03:44:58]

Dagmar:

Set that to something reasonable that brute-force attempts will still trigger on, like twenty or fifty and the users don't freak out so much.

[03:45:17]

Dagmar:

They'll try "harder" passwords just because they know they'll get it right after nine or ten tries at the worst

[03:45:45]

justinh:

I think when you know you only have 3 tries it makes things worse

[03:45:51]

Dagmar:

There's a balancing act there

[03:45:54]

justinh:

esp. when you have to make *the* *call*

[03:46:13]

Dagmar:

You have to *not* make users feel like the easier route is to simply try to defeat or ignore security policies

[03:46:45]

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[03:47:38]

justinh:

reminds me I need to email our guy about getting a new monitor for the lab. that red vertical line has become annoying

[03:48:05]

justinh:

could prolly do with a new keyboard too, since someone used it to hit a non-worky machine with last year

[03:48:14]

Dagmar:

Wonder who that might have been

[03:48:27]

Tanthrix:

justinh: By the way, I side-stepped my MythVideo / samba problem a bit. Switching to a gigabit hub dropped my load time down to about 1 full second. Not instant like 0.21 and the older CIFS client, but I can live with it.

[03:48:48]

justinh:

Tanthrix: FWIW I'd just have sacked the distro

[03:48:49]

Tanthrix:

justinh: And it dropped my 8,000 file test share from 18 seconds to 5

[03:49:36]

Tanthrix:

justinh: Well, I have no reason to believe that it is Ubuntu..it's probably the newer version of the CIFS client. But, it might be interesting to find a live cd from another distro with the same kernel and test it out.

[03:51:06]

justinh:

I'm just looking for any excuse to drop buntu like a hot rock now

[03:51:36]

Tanthrix:

I must admit, there is something unsettling about it to me after coming from Arch, but I'm learning to deal with it

[03:51:42]

justinh:

there's lots I like, but what I don't like about it is a daily pain in the ass

[03:51:54]

Tanthrix:

I'm still impressed at how easy everything was to setup – basically everything worked perfectly out of the box, including lirc and my two tuner cards

[03:51:54]

Dagmar:

Just compare the two configurations

[03:53:14]

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[03:53:37]

Tanthrix:

Dagmar: Hrm?

[03:54:05]

Dagmar:

If you're seeing a distinct performance difference between samba on one installation or another, look carefully at how each one was built

[03:55:05]

Tanthrix:

Dagmar: Well, unfortunately I'm comparing a 3 year old Arch system with 0.21 to a fresh Ubuntu system with 0.22. There's a lot of change in here.

[03:55:42]

Dagmar:

Yeah but it's highly likely the answer is going to leap out at you as a set of weird variables being set in smb.conf on one or the other of them

[03:56:18]

Tanthrix:

Dagmar: Well, it's certainly not going to do that, since the smb.conf has nothing to do with the CIFS client mounting a windows share. But, I get your point.

[03:56:25]

Dagmar:

Oh.

[03:56:33]

Dagmar:

I'd just blame that on Windows sucking at it and call it a day.

[03:57:01]

Tanthrix:

Hehe. Well, it's been working fine for years now, so it's not quite as simple as that.

[03:57:36]

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[03:58:00]

Tanthrix:

Dagmar: http://lists.samba.org/archive/linux-cifs-cli . . . /005517.html <--It's an interesting issue, but now that I've got it down to 1 second with my new gigabit switch, I'll probably quite wasting my time on it.

[03:58:40]

Tanthrix:

And the next time I see a good deal on a 2TB drive, I'll probably just pick it up and move everything to my BE anyway. Now that I've got gigabit and can easily do 60 MB/s from my windows machine to it, the reason for having all my stuff on the win box disappears.

[03:59:01]

Dagmar:

Here I can take a directory with several thousand files in it, and copy them over to an empty share at almost wire speed.

[03:59:29]

Dagmar:

If I then take those same files and repeat this operation, replacing the existing ones makes Windows' performance go to the toilet.

[03:59:51]

Tanthrix:

Fun.

[04:00:06]

Dagmar:

Another fun thing from a Windows machine that knows it's a workstation is to start a big filecopy and then start some very CPU intensive operation

[04:00:25]

Dagmar:

It'll kick QoS onto your filecopy, and performance will suck until it's done

[04:01:36]

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[04:03:38]

Tanthrix:

justinh: Have you spent any time de-gnomifying Ubuntu in any way? That's the one thing that is killing me..such a waste of resources.

[04:04:58]

justinh:

not really

[04:05:15]

justinh:

but if I'm gonna have to go to that kind of length why not just use $somethingelseentirely ?

[04:05:29]

justinh:

I'm no gnome fan, but I detest KDE

[04:05:31]

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[04:06:51]

oobe:

Tanthrix, just use a lighwieght xsession like fluxbox or xfce

[04:07:11]

justinh:

can't remember what I used for my frontend

[04:07:13]

oobe:

you dont need to remove any of the gnome stuff and it wont use resources or mess with mythtv

[04:07:42]

Tanthrix:

Well, that's more what I meant – switching window managers, and disabling any unnecessary gnome stuff but not getting rid of it, which would probably break all sorts of stuff

[04:07:53]

oobe:

my choice is fluxbox its not very popular but i like it so tiny and all you need to just run a FE

[04:07:59]

justinh:

disabling stuff can break things too

[04:08:10]

Tanthrix:

Hehe, I've used fluxbox on all my myth systems for years, and blackbox before that

[04:08:14]

Tanthrix:

Great wm.

[04:09:21]

justinh:

I need to find all the tickboxes for "make this program suck"

[04:09:50]

justinh:

the ****ing keyring manager not being optional is a PITA

[04:10:59]

justinh:

uninstalling email & office apps removes ubuntu-desktop.. which on the face of it shouldn't cause any issues cos it's only a meta packages. YEAH RIGHT

[04:14:40]

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[04:25:52]

trumee:

i have a show which repeats 4 times in a day on a channel. i setup to record one show daily on the channel, however myth is trying to record 2 shows out of 4 shows.

[04:26:17]

justinh:

using xmltv?

[04:26:21]

trumee:

any idea what could be the problem.

[04:26:24]

trumee:

yes

[04:26:39]

justinh:

the show title/subtitle is different

[04:27:05]

justinh:

that or you already have a rule setup to record the same show

[04:27:30]

trumee:

the show title is the same. where do i find the subtitle

[04:28:05]

justinh:

when are you ever going to get a blimmin clue man?

[04:29:05]

justinh:

the show subtitle is the line under the main title usually

[04:29:26]

justinh:

e.g. Title: Top Gear subtitle: Winter Special

[04:29:34]

justinh:

derrrrrrrrrrrr

[04:30:24]

trumee:

http://pastebin.ca/1759927 are the details of the two shows

[04:30:54]

trumee:

it is a dump from mythweb

[04:31:59]

justinh:

so look in the recording schedules page in mythweb

[04:32:02]

trumee:

i guess "Thu, Jan 21, 15:00 to 15:30 (30 mins)" is the subtitle. is there any way to ignore the subtitle?

[04:32:05]

justinh:

see if that show is listed more than one

[04:32:13]

justinh:

no that isn't the subtitle

[04:32:26]

justinh:

looks like there's no subtitle

[04:33:28]

trumee:

so what might be the problem?

[04:33:39]

justinh:

I've already said!

[04:33:46]

justinh:

there might be more than one recording rule for it

[04:33:47]

justinh:

FFS

[04:34:17]

justinh:

click the 'recording schedules' page in mythweb & see how many times that show is named on that page

[04:34:23]

justinh:

if more than once, there's your problem

[04:34:39]

justinh:

if not more than once.. it's something else

[04:35:08]

trumee:

there is just one schedule for this program

[04:36:32]

justinh:

I dunno then. be glad it's not recording too few

[04:37:32]

justinh:

or delete the schedule & make a new one to record in a given timeslot

[04:37:52]

justinh:

nothing else I can think of could cause this

[04:38:29]

justinh:

possibly trying to mix EIT & xmltv data but that doesn't look like a terrestrially aired show

[04:39:39]

trumee:

is it possible to purge the data in the listings

[04:40:03]

trumee:

the data is only from an xml file from the provider

[04:41:14]

trumee:

what should i pass to mythfilldatabase to delete all the previous data and import xml file again

[04:41:25]

justinh:

that probably won't solve anything

[04:41:46]

justinh:

it rarely does

[04:42:51]

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[04:43:44]

justinh:

if the show title & programid are the same, record ONCE per day should only record just that

[04:46:30]

trumee:

ok, i did a custom schedule wih the titlename and now it is working as expected

[04:47:05]

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[04:47:15]

justinh:

how do you know so soon?!

[04:48:02]

trumee:

i checked the upcomng recordings, it is listing only a single entry for the day instead of two entries

[04:48:08]

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[04:48:44]

justinh:

I think you should check your database integrity

[04:48:59]

trumee:

how do i do that?

[04:49:02]

justinh:

also I'd question the validity of the xmltv data

[04:49:05]

trumee:

in mythweb>

[04:49:13]

justinh:

no not in mythweb

[04:49:44]

justinh:

if you stuck around here instead of just popping in & out whenever you have a problem maybe you'd learn something

[04:50:13]

trumee:

well, usually i am here whenever i find time.

[04:50:21]

justinh:

mysqlcheck et al

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[04:53:14]

trumee:

there is something about database checks in mythweb as well.

[04:53:42]

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[04:54:32]

trumee:

btw, how can i purge all the listings?

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[05:10:50]

justinh:

so tempted to tell people rm -rf / when they ask how to purge listings

[05:12:10]

Hoxzer:

;_____; Why do you always have to be so mean?

[05:12:25]

justinh:

I'm not *always* so mean

[05:12:54]

justinh:

but some people keep coming back for really simple issues they can solve by reading, or just sticking around for a while

[05:13:07]

justinh:

and it's annoying

[05:16:52]

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[05:24:21]

justinh:

maybe I'm in a bit of a bad mood because I've just had to wait over an hour for an application to start. Our own CCTV viewing app. The one which allows you to resize the window but can't lock the aspect ratio of the displayed video. Useless crap

[05:31:04]

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[05:39:04]

justinh:

stupid java rubbish. they did it in java so it could be cross-platform – except it'll only work on Windows boxes. So we're stuck with the stupid lame java VM junk rather than a nifty native app. Pah

[05:41:26]

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[06:02:42]

ivor:

justinh: yuck sounds like junk.

[06:03:14]

justinh:

I don't think it's java that's the junk part

[06:03:38]

justinh:

I've seen much more complex java apps suck much, much less :)

[06:08:58]

Dibblah:

They should have written it in Flash. ;)

[06:09:22]

justinh:

don't give them any ideas.. or rather HIM any ideas

[06:10:36]

justinh:

he's one of those guys who yells at a designer that the designer's idea is crap & he should be doing it *this* way. Then months later comes over, sees what designer has done (on his say so) & starts shouting the odds that it's stupid & should be done differently – which turns out to be how the designer wanted to do it in the 1st place

[06:16:08]

Dibblah:

Ahhh... Management. I'm sure they clone them.

[06:16:26]

Dibblah:

... Since they obviously can't breed on their own.

[06:16:31]

justinh:

lol

[06:16:38]

justinh:

that's the man at the top

[06:16:49]

justinh:

the managers are strangely pretty clued up

[06:19:09]

justinh:

take the stupid 5 disk JBOD box.. 2U high & about 28 inches deep

[06:19:46]

justinh:

he wanted a fan per disk, and the all disks to be on a horizontal tray with airflow ducted from below (or else)

[06:20:07]

justinh:

this tray incidentally, can be pulled out when all the HDDs are powered up

[06:20:36]

justinh:

cos you know what a great idea moving spinning HDDs is :)

[06:21:48]

justinh:

it weighs 30 kilos. Yes that's right. a 5-disk sata enclosure weighs 30 kilos

[06:23:03]

justinh:

tempted to go round putting 'Suggestion Box' labels on all the bins again

[06:25:10]

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[06:35:56]

justinh:

oh no. java app crashed. have to kill it & wait for it to load again

[06:37:00]

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[06:43:28]

johnbergqvist:

hi guys. is it possible (im assuming in the jamu.conf) to force jamu to recognise a recording as a tv show not a movie?

[06:43:32]

johnbergqvist:

because theres one show that it tries to find as a movie on the moviedb, (its actually tvshow), but i want it to try and find it on thetvdb.com

[06:44:06]

justinh:

have you looked in the wiki?

[06:45:02]

johnbergqvist:

yes, but i cant find anything in there

[06:45:47]

johnbergqvist:

its weird, ive just checked and its checking the tvdb (which is good), and it gives me the correct tvdb id for the program, but its telling me its a movie and it cant find any artwork for it?

[06:45:48]

johnbergqvist:

wierd

[06:50:05]

johnbergqvist:

it gets everything else thats on the tvdb.com ok (the program i want is Mock the week)

[06:54:09]

johnbergqvist:

ive tried manually putting it into the jamu conf as well but that hasnt done anything

[06:56:30]

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[06:58:55]

johnbergqvist:

right well it appears that i can only manually specify themoviedb ids, not thetvdb ids

[07:01:40]

justinh:

you seriously want data for 'mock the week'? LOL. Frankie Boyle rants about more stereotypes using off-colour humour

[07:01:44]

justinh:

there you go

[07:02:28]

johnbergqvist:

i never said it was because of him.

[07:02:37]

johnbergqvist:

i prefer Hugh Dennis

[07:02:52]

justinh:

less offensive but sadly not actually funny IMHO :)

[07:03:04]

johnbergqvist:

meh

[07:03:47]

justinh:

btw nothing against your taste in teevees – but this is the kind of thing where I go 'hmmm, fanart etc in 'watch recordings'.. nice idea if it works without very much effort at all in the majority of cases'

[07:04:10]

johnbergqvist:

well its the only program that it wont pick up.

[07:04:34]

justinh:

IIRC jamu looks for movies first, then teevees

[07:04:39]

johnbergqvist:

ive tried manually adding it in the jamu.conf file but it still doesnt work. Thinks its a movie and checks themoviedb.com but ignores tv

[07:05:25]

justinh:

wonder what the fanart for MTW is actually like...

[07:05:38]

johnbergqvist:

http://thetvdb.com/?tab=series&id=79761

[07:05:41]

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[07:05:52]

justinh:

hahaha

[07:05:56]

justinh:

what a bunch of lookers they are

[07:06:06]

johnbergqvist:

meh

[07:06:31]

johnbergqvist:

so do u have anyway of telling jamu to look for specific programs in the tvdb.com instead of themoviedb?

[07:07:04]

justinh:

I dunno. I've not even upgraded to 0.22 yet

[07:07:13]

justinh:

least not in production anyway

[07:07:26]

johnbergqvist:

ok

[07:07:30]

johnbergqvist:

im on 0.23

[07:07:38]

justinh:

it's not 0.23 btw

[07:07:38]

johnbergqvist:

works a treat

[07:08:02]

johnbergqvist:

im using mythbuntu karmic with the 0.23 option selected in the autobuilds page of the control centre

[07:08:02]

justinh:

I still need to make my new theme usable before I even contemplate upgrading

[07:08:10]

johnbergqvist:

is it arclight?

[07:08:16]

justinh:

no

[07:08:19]

johnbergqvist:

oh :(

[07:08:22]

johnbergqvist:

what is it?

[07:08:29]

justinh:

it's one nobody will ever see :)

[07:08:34]

johnbergqvist:

ok

[07:08:59]

justinh:

well, I could release it but I doubt anybody'd want it since it won't make use of fanart etc

[07:09:04]

johnbergqvist:

ok

[07:09:05]

justinh:

well not *much* use of it

[07:09:07]

johnbergqvist:

yh

[07:09:14]

johnbergqvist:

im waiting for a decent theme to use banenrs

[07:09:16]

johnbergqvist:

*banners

[07:09:47]

justinh:

as far as I'm concerned for an SDTV theme, all the space should be devoted to information within reason

[07:09:55]

johnbergqvist:

ah well im hdtv

[07:10:19]

justinh:

putting pretty pics behind text is pointless when you're *covering* the picture

[07:10:30]

johnbergqvist:

not always

[07:10:47]

justinh:

no I mean when you plaster text virtually all over the picture

[07:10:55]

johnbergqvist:

depends

[07:10:56]

justinh:

like in the watch recordings screen

[07:10:57]

johnbergqvist:

yh

[07:11:16]

justinh:

sure have a panel or two but christ

[07:11:45]

justinh:

if more than 50% of the screen is text it really defeats the object IMHO

[07:12:42]

justinh:

like you say it depends. from the screenshots of arclight I've seen, there's a great example of context :)

[07:12:43]

johnbergqvist:

do you think upgrading to a dual core CPU will let me be able to watch 1080HD better?

[07:13:02]

justinh:

depends if the 'HD' is sliced or not

[07:13:03]

johnbergqvist:

im on a amd64 4200 atm

[07:13:13]

johnbergqvist:

ok

[07:13:27]

justinh:

if it's not sliced encoding you can only use one core for decoding it

[07:13:44]

justinh:

til ffmpeg-mt makes some serious progress ;)

[07:14:47]

justinh:

FWIW I'm dubious of all these HD themes & how usable they'll be at realistic viewing distances for me personally

[07:15:14]

justinh:

getting on a bit now :)

[07:15:43]

justinh:

yeah so your 1080 TV can display 2 point high text & it looks fine when you're close enough but...

[07:16:51]

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[07:16:53]

johnbergqvist:

the problem i have is that half my themes are out of proportion in some way or another, i.e. text overflows the box etc.

[07:17:03]

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[07:17:08]

justinh:

that shouldn't be happening

[07:17:09]

johnbergqvist:

im hoping that if a theme has been designed for the resolution im using, that will be less of a problem

[07:17:24]

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[07:17:25]

justinh:

all the new ones should be fine for 16:9

[07:18:01]

justinh:

even 16:10 at a push I'd have thought

[07:18:19]

johnbergqvist:

its only in minor cases, but it ruins the experience

[07:18:29]

justinh:

it always did

[07:18:46]

justinh:

like selection boxes being 5 pixels off

[07:19:00]

justinh:

like drop shadows looking aliased

[07:19:14]

johnbergqvist:

kk

[07:19:34]

justinh:

which theme are you using btw?

[07:20:01]

justinh:

haven't seen any alignment issues in terra or mythbuntu

[07:20:56]

johnbergqvist:

blue abstract

[07:20:59]

justinh:

anyhow my real beef with the fanart is actually that you've pretty much got to have it for *everything* or it defeats the whole object

[07:21:00]

johnbergqvist:

i used to use graphite

[07:21:05]

johnbergqvist:

thats true

[07:21:15]

justinh:

johnbergqvist: ah I've seen alignment problems in that. It's shoddy IMHO

[07:21:29]

johnbergqvist:

graphite?

[07:21:32]

justinh:

no

[07:21:34]

johnbergqvist:

oh

[07:21:39]

johnbergqvist:

blue-abstract?

[07:21:41]

justinh:

yes

[07:21:50]

johnbergqvist:

oh

[07:21:55]

johnbergqvist:

thats better than graphite for me

[07:22:13]

johnbergqvist:

with graphite the no.5 option in the menus is always 1 line above where it should be

[07:22:17]

justinh:

the only thing I didn't like about graphite was the grid based watch recordings screen really

[07:22:39]

johnbergqvist:

yh

[07:22:54]

justinh:

that & it used alphapulse. I hate flashing/cycling stuff..

[07:23:32]

justinh:

there's a lot of great work going on, and a lot already done :)

[07:23:52]

justinh:

really bugs me how people are clinging on to the ancient junk though :(

[07:24:22]

justinh:

wtf it is about mythcenter that's so appealing I just don't know. Maybe it's the default text size

[07:24:51]

johnbergqvist:

lol

[07:25:13]

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[07:25:28]

justinh:

I could be right. look at any STB UI. Do they cram as much info as some mythtv themes do onscreen? No.. and there's a reason for that :)

[07:27:12]

justinh:

but choice is good. At least now we're not limited to one layout style :)

[07:28:21]

johnbergqvist:

well ive temporarily got round my problem by downlaoding the metadata images manually. grrr

[07:28:52]

justinh:

I dunno how all that works.

[07:29:22]

justinh:

do you have to put in the metadata per individual show or does it go in on a programme series basis?

[07:31:00]

johnbergqvist:

what, doing it manually?

[07:31:08]

justinh:

either

[07:32:15]

johnbergqvist:

well manually, i just downloaded the individual images, placed them with the other (if we use banners as an example) banners, and named it like the rest: [Program Name]_banner.jpg

[07:32:18]

johnbergqvist:

seems to have worked

[07:32:28]

johnbergqvist:

i thought i would have to link it with the database but no

[07:32:42]

justinh:

maybe just the image grabbing failed then

[07:32:47]

johnbergqvist:

still it would be nice if it did it automatically though like the other programs

[07:32:58]

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[07:33:04]

justinh:

the (cough) other programs.. Meh

[07:33:26]

johnbergqvist:

no, it seems to think its a movie (yet i have more than one episode), so it checks the moviedb, doesnt find it and moves on to the next program, without checking the tvdb

[07:34:04]

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[07:34:40]

johnbergqvist:

it would be nice if, if it didnt find the info on themoviedb, to then check the tvdb and vice versa

[07:35:01]

johnbergqvist:

instead of just guessing whether its a movie or tv show and just going on its own intuition

[07:35:08]

justinh:

I thought it did, given the right incantation

[07:36:13]

johnbergqvist:

did what?

[07:36:18]

johnbergqvist:

checked one then the other, regardless

[07:36:20]

johnbergqvist:

?

[07:36:36]

justinh:

yeah with the right option. I thought it did

[07:36:44]

johnbergqvist:

well its not doing it for me

[07:36:49]

johnbergqvist:

whats the option?

[07:37:16]

johnbergqvist:

the option im using is -MWV

[07:47:43]

johnbergqvist:

oh well, thanks for your help anyway

[07:47:48]

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[08:52:56]

justinh:

heh seeing that 'kill frontend when tv is off' thread reminds me I should try out the standby killer my power company sent me for 'free'

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tmkt:

Before I file this bug, anyone here of it before? ripping my dvds... creating a bunch of m4vs of them

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tmkt:

trying to play them fails sometimes

[10:37:05]

tmkt:

until i restart mythfrontend

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justinh:

before you file this as a bug you better get some debug output

[10:37:51]

justinh:

mythfrontend -v

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justinh:

prolly mythfrontend -v playback

[10:38:19]

justinh:

depending on the failure mode. does the screen say "please wait..." but then just drop you back to the menu?

[10:38:31]

tmkt:

it says please wait

[10:38:36]

tmkt:

then complains about frame rate

[10:38:48]

tmkt:

yeah..i'll provide more info when I file the bug

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justinh:

complains about framerate. That's very descriptive

[10:39:03]

justinh:

like "help, it no worky"

[10:39:26]

justinh:

but if it's intermittent it's more likely to be a bug than something silly

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justinh:

.. in theory at least

[10:41:12]

justinh:

ow. gawd only knows how this IP camera is still working at an ambient of 50 deg C

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justinh:

when the codec onboard reaches 50 deg C at room temp & the PoE converter 90 deg C at room temp. heh

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mrand:

90 deg C room temp? Where's that exactly?!

[10:45:43]

justinh:

no the chip casing is 90 deg C at room temp

[10:45:49]

justinh:

silly :)

[10:46:18]

justinh:

wouldn't wanna be in any room at 90 deg celcius.. well not for a while yet ;)

[10:46:20]

mrand:

ahhh... makes much more sense. NEBS / telco is 55 deg C max room temp. Outside plant is 65 deg C "air" temp inside an uncooled cabinet

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justinh:

this dome camera has been sold specced to 50 but reports have come in about failures in the field

[10:46:51]

justinh:

in Australia

[10:47:09]

justinh:

turned out it was never actually tested to verify the spec

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mrand:

They probably didn't want to pay for a temp chamber. Although there are surely compliance shops that they could go rent one for a while.

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justinh:

they being us, and we have two such chambers

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mrand:

hahah gotcha

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tmkt:

complains about bad framerate...like when i tune into a channel and it can't quite lock onto it.

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justinh:

weird

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Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v stuartm

[12:14:57]

stuartm:

iamlindoro: Twit.tv, some (all) of the feeds like to quicktime only vids, is that correct or am I doing something wrong?

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iamlindoro:

stuartm: You're not doing something wrong-- It's mostly useful as a download-only script (or if I can ever figure out a NSPlugin that works with quicktime)

[12:57:13]

stuartm:

ok, so tune in later?

[12:57:58]

wagnerrp:

same bat time, same bat channel

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[13:02:47]

iamlindoro:

stuartm: Well, you can download/watch all those shows

[13:02:58]

iamlindoro:

MENU->Save This Video

[13:03:01]

iamlindoro:

or whatever I called it

[13:03:13]

iamlindoro:

you'll just need to wait for the download to complete

[13:03:30]

iamlindoro:

it'll go to ~/.mythtv/download_####_####.ext

[13:03:58]

iamlindoro:

which is a total stopgap solution until we can get the backend to do the downloading+ watch while the download is in progress

[13:05:10]

stuartm:

iamlindoro: ah

[13:05:48]

stuartm:

maybe select should initiate the download for download-only sources when that happens?

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stuartm:

I'm making a nuisance of myself, I'll shut up

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[13:09:25]

iamlindoro:

stuartm: Nope, you're exactly right

[13:09:33]

Captain_Murdoch:

since stuartm shut up, /me decides to be the nuisance and says "iamlindoro, have you thought about creating a MNV storage group and having the FE download the video to the MNV group on the master BE? then you could list items in the MNV SG in your tree."

[13:09:47]

iamlindoro:

in fact, I wrote that same thing to you and then deleted it, thinking it did you know good for me to explain what it should do

[13:10:16]

Captain_Murdoch:

once we have backend downloading will these go into a MNV SG anyway?

[13:10:25]

iamlindoro:

Captain_Murdoch: Yeah, I had thought of it-- in fact, I think there's still commented out code that puts the download in the default storage group-- but I caught hell last release by adding new storage groups and wasn't eager to repeat it

[13:10:48]

iamlindoro:

That said, it would be trivial to add/enable since it's mostly all already there

[13:11:09]

wagnerrp:

whats the problem with additional storage groups

[13:11:25]

wagnerrp:

theyre kinda mandatory if you want to keep stuff separate

[13:11:26]

iamlindoro:

oh, and correcting myself a few lines ago, s/did you know/did you no/

[13:11:50]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: Because I hear things like "Meh, it should just go in the video/recording/default/whatever SG instead"

[13:12:09]

Captain_Murdoch:

I vote for it having a new SG, then it's accessible to all FE's if you can browse that FE in your tree.

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[13:12:46]

Captain_Murdoch:

s/browse that FE/browse that SG/

[13:12:59]

iamlindoro:

Captain_Murdoch: I'll try to take a look at it this weekend

[13:13:30]

iamlindoro:

I really want the downloading to work well, particularly in-progress-playback, but I sort of gave up on what I've got considering it all a wasted effort

[13:13:30]

wagnerrp:

already thursday... this week went by fast

[13:13:57]

Captain_Murdoch:

and when we have backend downloading that will just drop into place since you'll be able to tell the BE to "download file from URL X and drop into SG Y" and it can/will send out an event when it's done.

[13:14:38]

iamlindoro:

s/done/buffered enough to start playback/ ?

[13:14:43]

iamlindoro:

(hopefully)

[13:14:54]

Captain_Murdoch:

that will also mean you can clean up after yourself if you want. user downloads video, watches video, picks 'delete' off the menu and MNV uses the remotefile delete capability to delete the temp video.

[13:15:11]

Captain_Murdoch:

well, I was thinking that it could/would send out events about % downloaded as well.

[13:15:25]

iamlindoro:

yeah, that'd be great

[13:15:27]

Captain_Murdoch:

and support querying status of a download.

[13:16:07]

Captain_Murdoch:

and I've been wondering if this just makes sense to drop into the JobQueue somehow, since we can now run jobs that aren't associated with a chanid/starttime.

[13:16:42]

iamlindoro:

most of what you describe above in terms of UI is actually already there (remotefile::delete, etc.) just not hooked up right now

[13:16:57]

Captain_Murdoch:

queuing a download would wakeup sleeping jobqueues to pick up the job.

[13:17:16]

Captain_Murdoch:

yeah,

[13:17:29]

iamlindoro:

in MNV, I mean

[13:17:44]

Captain_Murdoch:

cool. thought you meant the lib code.

[13:18:21]

iamlindoro:

yeah, I mean MNV... actually had it downloading to default, playing when it had 20 MB downloaded, deleting, etc. but tore most of it out because I thought it was pretty awful/hacky

[13:18:47]

iamlindoro:

I might take another run at it before the release just to try to have *something* usable there, will depend a lot on time

[13:19:39]

iamlindoro:

the other problem was that the download thread would freeze up when the player started, but I think I've got that solved now

[13:22:25]

iamlindoro:

Also need to go look up how to let a QThread yield to the main UI thread, as the download/parsing of trees can interfere with TV playback when the two are going on at the same time... setPriority I assume

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[13:42:28]

iamlindoro:

Hahaha, Conan O'Brien bought a 1.5 Million dollar Bugatti Veyron to dress up as a mouse and use in a sketch just to cost NBC money

[13:43:17]

iamlindoro:

And then displayed it with the Rolling Stones playing in the background to cost them royalty money, hahahaha

[13:43:22]

gbee_:

at least he didn't crash it, as several Veyron owners have done

[13:44:20]

iamlindoro:

http://jalopnik.com/5453417/conan-obriens-15- . . . veyron-mouse

[13:44:28]

iamlindoro:

That is awesome

[13:44:38]

gbee_:

a car with a price tag of 1.5 Million but which is sold at a loss

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[14:00:25]

Chicago:

I noticed the last file posted on sourceforge for the mythcontrol (windows mobile) application is dated -> 2007-04–26 . I recently have been looking at windows mobile development in c# (fairly simple if you know some of the MSBS IDE innards).

[14:01:00]

Chicago:

Anybody care to shed light on which direction development is going in currently for windows mobile phones performing remote control?

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[14:59:58]

tank-man:

Chicago, never heard of that app before while lurking in this channel

[15:00:36]

Chicago:

tank-man, mythcontrol is hosted on sourceforge and I've never heard of it here either

[15:00:48]

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[15:01:02]

Chicago:

I just installed it and am looking for the 'options'... I suspect there is some config file where I point it to a server listening on 6546.

[15:01:22]

Elwell:

Evening all – anyone here who can explain some workings of the uPNP stuff?

[15:01:24]

Chicago:

tank-man, do you have a WM phone?

[15:01:45]

tank-man:

no i do not have a wm phone

[15:01:54]

tank-man:

6546 sounds like its using the telnet interface

[15:02:00]

kormoc:

Chicago: my direction is to write a skin for mythweb for your phone and use it's remote interface

[15:02:26]

** Elwell has a samsung DLNA tv and would like the 'pause' button to work – is such a hack/patch going to need me learning C? **

[15:03:08]

Chicago:

kormoc, has there been talk of using the recording groups as rss feeds, such that a phone with a feed reader could subscribe to the 'jay leno' video podcast.... and then download OTA the episodes as they come in...

[15:03:47]

kormoc:

Chicago: would be simplish to add to mythweb, other then the dynamic transcoding to a format the phone would support

[15:04:24]

Chicago:

those are already probably existing for most users as their job{1,2,3,4} user-defined jobs.

[15:04:49]

Chicago:

I'm thinking crunch 1920x1080 into 320x240 about 300–400kbit....

[15:04:50]

kormoc:

then yes, it'd be simplish to add

[15:05:04]

kormoc:

but the job would have to happen before you could stream

[15:05:11]

Chicago:

yeah

[15:05:49]

Chicago:

there are ruby frameworks for making feeds, I haven't looked into it in a greater extent than figuring out I couldn't decide on a defacto PHP feeder script.

[15:08:16]

Chicago:

I'm hoping to have the touchscreen interface on the phone, to have it start tv on a specified channel on severl frontends and screen at the same time... so that DISPLAY=:0.0 on host1 is one frontend and DISPLAY=:0.0 DISPLAY=:0.1 and DISPLAY=0.2 on another machine with three seperate screens....

[15:08:36]

Chicago:

I'd like the touch interface be able to masterfully mute them together or start them on a program set together.

[15:13:11]

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[15:31:24]

rhpot1991:

anyone have experience with how long comcast leaves the analog channels in clear qam after you get the letter?

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[15:37:13]

superm1:

what is this so called letter?

[15:39:53]

kormoc:

"Dear John, I've found another cable customer, one who loves sitting alone on the couch for days. Sorry. Love Comcast"

[15:41:35]

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[15:44:51]

** iamlindoro really, eally wants Mass Effect 2 to be out already **

[15:45:09]

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[15:48:36]

kormoc:

Ooh? I didn't really care for Mass Effect 1

[15:50:08]

dustybin:

GreyFoxx: that asterisk script works ace :D

[15:51:13]

iamlindoro:

kormoc: I loved ME1, personally

[15:51:23]

iamlindoro:

kormoc: Trailer! http://kotaku.com/5453747/the-mass-effect-2-l . . . r-has-it-all

[15:52:12]

Lt_Dan_:

iamlindoro – i hope amazon's "free release date shipping w/ amazon prime" comes through for ME2

[15:52:41]

iamlindoro:

Lt_Dan_: Much as I despise them, I know that Best Buy will always have truckloads of copies, so I'll probably just pick one up on the way home

[15:52:49]

Lt_Dan_:

i was debating that too

[15:53:02]

Lt_Dan_:

i think i got some sort of code for armor or something for pre-ordering

[15:53:27]

iamlindoro:

*would* prefer to get it on PS3, but I played ME1 on 360 and I want to import my character too

[15:53:36]

Lt_Dan_:

i was gonna ask PC or X360.

[15:53:36]

iamlindoro:

(and yeah, I know it's not available on PS3)

[15:53:52]

iamlindoro:

Don't have a windows PC so 360 is my only option

[15:54:04]

Lt_Dan_:

i only have a beta win 7 until that expires :)

[15:54:10]

kormoc:

iamlindoro: it looks awesome, for sure, but I really didn't care for the squad micromanagement of ME1 :(

[15:54:10]

Lt_Dan_:

so i went x360

[15:54:31]

iamlindoro:

kormoc: I get the sense (from all the reviews) that they took the major complaints very seriously in designing the second

[15:54:47]

Lt_Dan_:

MUCH LESS MAKO, please

[15:54:50]

Lt_Dan_:

?

[15:54:52]

iamlindoro:

kormoc: And the ones they always mention are squad management, inventory, and level up mechanic

[15:54:55]

iamlindoro:

and yeah, the Mako

[15:55:01]

kormoc:

iamlindoro: Well, I'll buy it when it's on sale on steam cheap, so we'll see :)

[15:55:21]

iamlindoro:

heh

[15:55:21]

kormoc:

I half wonder if I'm in the top 10% of steam customers yet

[15:55:43]

Lt_Dan_:

you fans of other bioware--ie Dragon Age?

[15:55:49]

Lt_Dan_:

KoTOR

[15:55:57]

iamlindoro:

I love Bioware, but thought Dragon Age was wicked ugly

[15:56:05]

kormoc:

Lt_Dan_: Dragon Age isn't on sale yet, and KOTOR was monthly fee, no?

[15:56:16]

iamlindoro:

Kotor games were super fun

[15:56:35]

iamlindoro:

Think you're thinking of SW:TOR

[15:56:36]

Lt_Dan_:

oh. i got dragon age on ps3 and standard PC DVD--not steam.. i wasn't aware they weren't on steam yet

[15:56:47]

Lt_Dan_:

i thought i saw mention of it in the forums

[15:56:53]

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[15:57:02]

iamlindoro:

I even enjoyed Jade Empire

[15:57:04]

Lt_Dan_:

KoTOR=Knights of the Old Republic (the old, non-online one from xbox days)

[15:57:15]

kormoc:

Lt_Dan_: They were on steam for pre-order like three months ahead and preload for at least a week

[15:57:36]

kormoc:

Lt_Dan_: no consoles, so unless it's a pc title (and on steam), doubtful I've ever played it

[15:57:59]

iamlindoro:

ME2 also has an insane voice cast

[15:58:10]

iamlindoro:

and the closest thing to an Agent Sarah Walker sex sim I'll ever get

[15:58:16]

gbee_:

I played KoTOR right through until just short of the end I dumped Windows for good and never finished

[15:58:29]

Lt_Dan_:

lol

[15:58:38]

Lt_Dan_:

who's on for ME2?

[15:58:55]

Lt_Dan_:

some of the surviving characters from ME1+who?

[15:59:05]

Lt_Dan_:

(actors)

[15:59:12]

iamlindoro:

Martin Sheen, Yvonne Strahovski, Seth Green, Tricia Helfer

[15:59:13]

iamlindoro:

etc.

[15:59:17]

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[15:59:17]

Lt_Dan_:

really!

[15:59:19]

Lt_Dan_:

nice

[15:59:27]

iamlindoro:

Michael Dorn, Alec Baldwin

[15:59:35]

iamlindoro:

s/Alec/Adam./

[15:59:50]

iamlindoro:

Carrie Ann Moss, Michael Hogan

[15:59:54]

iamlindoro:

and so on

[16:00:12]

Lt_Dan_:

wow. even more reason for the 26th to get here already....

[16:00:31]

gbee_:

one short of a Chuck reunion then

[16:00:38]

iamlindoro:

heh, true

[16:00:42]

Lt_Dan_:

i've been distracting myself with dragon age so i haven't been following the m.e.2 news

[16:01:53]

iamlindoro:

Anyway, the folks at Bioware do "epic" right, and that's the kind of game I really enjoy

[16:02:17]

Lt_Dan_:

agreed about Bioware.

[16:02:53]

iamlindoro:

Bioware, Valve, Naughty Dog... all tend to take their time and get things right, and it shows

[16:04:56]

Lt_Dan_:

i'll add at least fallout3 from bethesda.. never really tried much of their others (oblivion)

[16:05:33]

iamlindoro:

FAllout 3 was a lot of fun-- I didn't get into Oblivion very much

[16:06:25]

iamlindoro:

Maybe I'm just naturally biased towards SciFi over Sword and Sorcery

[16:07:55]

iamlindoro:

Bioshock 2 should be fun times too

[16:08:09]

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[16:08:37]

elmojo:

sphery: r23225 broke mythavtest playback

[16:09:54]

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[16:17:21]

J-e-f-f-A:

(Ot) Awesome... IRC on my Droid.... hehehehe...

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[16:19:52]

elmojo:

sphery: reverting line 129 in mythcommandlineparser.cpp back to 'return true' fixes the issue here

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[16:38:03]

xaxes:

hey there.. I have problem fastforwarding/backwarding while wathcing live-tv .. it only jumps 1 second forwards/backwards .. Somebody told me, that Iam able to press 2 + rightarrow to get a 2 minute-forward-jump.. sometimes it works, but not often.. when it isnt working it only jumps 1 second.. any tips?

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[16:58:08]

mag0o:

xaxes: maybe you're caught up with the live stream and can't go ahead any further?

[17:01:34]

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[17:01:47]

dustybin:

mythtvosd caller id has no space for the %TIME variable

[17:02:00]

dustybin:

the %TIME variable has shifted next to date

[17:02:39]

dustybin:

could this be a bug inside the inner workings of mythtv?

[17:03:21]

** dustybin awaits death **

[17:03:29]

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[17:04:13]

TauPan:

Hi again... I've made some progress with the hvr-1300, but I still can't change the channel when viewing live tv. When I try, I get the following output on the console: http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/1760676

[17:04:36]

TauPan:

and then mythtv tells me that "Video frame buffering failed too many times"

[17:05:51]

xaxes:

mag0o: no, I also cant go backwards..

[17:06:04]

wagnerrp:

any SQL gurus around?

[17:06:36]

wagnerrp:

i have a query set up that will join a bunch of tables and let me search for a video with one specific cast member

[17:06:48]

xaxes:

mag0o: restarting live-tv gives me normal behaviour back

[17:07:03]

wagnerrp:

i would like to change it so you could search for one video that contains multiple cast members

[17:07:09]

wagnerrp:

but im thinking thats not possible

[17:07:30]

wagnerrp:

since when you join them, you end up with multiple lines, each with only one cast member listed

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[17:11:32]

dustybin:

im using the blootube OSD, i think there is a bug

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[17:23:37]

TauPan:

ÿ

[17:23:42]

TauPan:

oops

[17:28:14]

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[17:29:04]

TauPan:

the reason why I think it may be (partially at least) mythtv's fault is that I can watch the stream with mplayer and just switch the channel with itvt-tune and there will be a slight glitch, but then I can just go on watching

[17:29:41]

TauPan:

also mythtv won't notice anything if I just switch the channel with ivtv-tune

[17:31:29]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: I'd take a gander at it

[17:31:32]

gbee_:

bloody bank cancelled my debit card causing it to be rejected, twice, the cancellation in turn prevented me accessing my account online, the bloke on the phone (after waiting 10 minutes) told me my account didn't exist – by now I'm angry and a little worried

[17:32:10]

** kormoc blinks **

[17:32:11]

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[17:32:19]

kormoc:

gbee_: Fire should be set!

[17:32:24]

gbee_:

managed to get through to someone different on the phone who figured out it was all a screwup on their end and immediately re-instated the card etc

[17:32:59]

** gbee_ has aged a couple of years in under an hour **

[17:33:39]

JoshBorke:

gbee_: could be worse, they could have said all your money was gone

[17:34:29]

gbee_:

if they hadn't reinstated the card it would have been messy, 5–10 days for a new card in which time I'd have no access to money and several re-occuring payments failing

[17:34:37]

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[17:35:10]

TauPan:

hm, apparently myth tries to switch to the v4l input in the end

[17:35:21]

JoshBorke:

gbee_: glad you were able to get it resolved

[17:35:54]

gbee_:

JoshBorke: had that been the case it wouldn't have been too bad (relatively), it's a current account which never has _large_ sums in it

[17:36:55]

gbee_:

just happens to be the only immediate access account I have

[17:37:40]

gbee_:

lesson learnt

[17:38:37]

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[17:38:57]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/1760748

[17:40:34]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: would i have to roll that into a temporary table, which i could then search against?

[17:40:41]

kormoc:

nopers!

[17:42:43]

** gbee_ opens the JD **

[17:43:20]

iamlindoro:

s/Thursday/Friday/

[17:44:36]

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[17:45:45]

cidtrips:

anyone here familiar with the saa7134 driver?

[17:47:32]

devinheitmueller:

cidtrips: a question like that is probably better asked on #linuxtv.

[17:48:03]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/1760758

[17:48:14]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: whoops, one sec

[17:48:25]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/1760759

[17:48:28]

** wagnerrp is afraid of the how long that thing will be if kormoc has been typing the last several minutes **

[17:48:48]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: change the = 2; to whatever the count of matching cast you want to match

[17:49:00]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: nah, more testing it to make sure it works as expected

[17:49:01]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: that will search for any movie with either of those two actors

[17:49:06]

wagnerrp:

i mean one movie with both actors

[17:49:08]

kormoc:

negative

[17:49:14]

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[17:49:30]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: as it requires a count of the subselect to be two

[17:49:37]

cidtrips:

alright, trying to get mythtv to work with a weird sbt-tvfm card, so thanks, I'll ask there

[17:49:42]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: if it was a count = 1, sure, but we're restricting it to require a count of two

[17:49:49]

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[17:50:42]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: we run the subquery on each row of the videometadata, so basically one subquery pre video, getting the count of actors matching the search and only saying true if the count is two, if you wanted for three actors, you'd add another or and make the = to be 3

[17:51:45]

** J-e-f-f-A takes notes to improve his SQL knowledge... ;-) . **

[17:52:06]

wagnerrp:

... now i just have to figure out how to autogenerate that in a program

[17:52:07]

wagnerrp:

thanks!

[17:52:14]

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[17:52:45]

kormoc:

You're welcome :)

[17:54:31]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: you can do it in a join, it'd just be *Really* messy compared

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[18:04:54]

wagnerrp:

kormocL would you expect this to take a long time to run?

[18:05:34]

TauPan:

in the backend log I see a crapload of 'DevRdB(/dev/video1) Error: Problem reading fd(40)'

[18:06:11]

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[18:06:27]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: define long time?

[18:06:43]

wagnerrp:

full CPU for about 4 minutes now

[18:06:51]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: how many videos?

[18:06:59]

wagnerrp:

3k

[18:07:50]

wagnerrp:

10k in videocast, 33k in videometadatacast

[18:07:50]

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[18:09:04]

kormoc:

hrm

[18:09:21]

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[18:09:23]

kormoc:

could reverse the query a bit...

[18:09:44]

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[18:10:03]

dustybin:

ive got the blootube cid osd looking mega :D

[18:10:21]

dustybin:

if somebody rings me, i can see who exactly it is without even moving

[18:10:25]

dustybin:

this is _serious_ stuff :D

[18:10:40]

iamlindoro:

Because that's just what you need, less physical exertion

[18:10:57]

iamlindoro:

now you just need someone to actually want to call you

[18:11:05]

dustybin:

aye indeed

[18:11:27]

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[18:17:39]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: we're missing indexes

[18:18:11]

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[18:19:03]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: ALTER TABLE videometadatacast ADD UNIQUE INDEX (`idvideo`, `idcast`);

[18:19:12]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: and then give it a go

[18:20:38]

wagnerrp:

oh yeah, much better! 1.33 seconds

[18:22:23]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: might want to poke sphery and get that added in, it really should be a primary key

[18:22:52]

wagnerrp:

s/sphery/iamlindoro/ ?

[18:22:59]

kormoc:

that works as well

[18:23:11]

kormoc:

I just know sphery was doing index fixups recently

[18:23:37]

wagnerrp:

should then be similar fixups in videometadatagenre and videometadatacategory

[18:23:45]

kormoc:

likely

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[18:57:02]

high-rez:

This may be semi off-topic – but I notcied there are a ton of emulators supproted by mythgame – however, i'm not surewhat is best/current.. Any suggestions?

[18:57:42]

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[18:59:18]

Dagmar:

Honestly it depends on what you legally have

[18:59:32]

high-rez:

Dagmar: I have nothing at all. :)

[18:59:41]

Dagmar:

Then it's not really much of a problem

[18:59:55]

Dagmar:

Most of the emulators for older consoles run/do everything

[19:00:08]

Dagmar:

Mame in particular can be expected to run whatever you throw at it

[19:00:12]

high-rez:

I intend to get something to play – would just like something to putz around with every once in a while.

[19:00:30]

Dagmar:

You will however find that it's mainly a waste of your time unless you were already playing that game on an older console

[19:01:06]

high-rez:

I'll look into mame then. :)

[19:01:23]

Dagmar:

I went through the trouble of setting up mame and getting a bunch of pirated roms once

[19:01:32]

Dagmar:

Then I realized why I stopped putting quarters into machines in the first place

[19:02:30]

high-rez:

Dagmar: honestly? i hate to admit it: but this is more like "look what my media center can do besides photos, tv, music etc" ;)

[19:02:58]

Dagmar:

Heck part of the issue is that most of them somewhat expect you to be able to change the display resolution to that of the hardware in question

[19:02:58]

high-rez:

I keep getting yelled at everytime I have people over and don't have a wii. Need soemthing to satisfy the masses.

[19:03:11]

high-rez:

Yikes

[19:03:18]

Dagmar:

If you have a 32" LCD screen, 640x480 stuff just winds up looking like ass

[19:03:43]

Dagmar:

So like, go hit up a pawn shop or ebay for a Wii then

[19:03:58]

Dagmar:

THey're not that expensive, and Mario Party does a good job of keeping people occupied

[19:04:11]

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[19:04:32]

Dagmar:

Actually, heck if you want to impress them, keep an eye on iamlindoro's hack, MythNetVision

[19:04:56]

Dagmar:

Just about every possible place you can get streaming video from that won't involve lawyers getting the vapors plugs into it

[19:05:06]

Dagmar:

PIles and piles and piles of video might well impress them

[19:05:38]

high-rez:

Dagmar: Funny you should mention that, I just pulled trunk this morning and have it installed. :)

[19:05:42]

high-rez:

Was trying to play with it.

[19:05:44]

Dagmar:

It's nifty

[19:05:57]

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[19:06:10]

Dagmar:

It's giving me fits trying to figure out how I should theme it, but that's just because I'm a bit rusty from all the working diagrams I was doing about a year ago

[19:06:13]

high-rez:

But I goto manage site subscriptions and just get a blank page.

[19:06:22]

Dagmar:

Oh, check the dependencies

[19:06:28]

high-rez:

Ahh

[19:06:30]

Dagmar:

That's actually an item in it's faq IIRC

[19:08:09]

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[19:09:08]

high-rez:

Is the faq on the wiki? I don't seeit in the mythplugins directory

[19:09:16]

Dagmar:

Yep

[19:10:18]

high-rez:

Hmm so i'm probably missing all the python bindings

[19:10:30]

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[19:10:37]

Dagmar:

Very likely

[19:11:10]

Dagmar:

Python kinda needs something like 'use CPAN;' from perl

[19:11:18]

Dagmar:

Not sure if that particular aspect of it still works tho

[19:11:30]

high-rez:

Yeah

[19:11:46]

Dagmar:

If you'd put it at the start of a perl program and CPAN was correctly configured, when you ran a perl script that had missing deps, it would go grab them and put them in your home directory on it's own

[19:13:28]

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[19:20:24]

gbee_:

became messy when everything is packaged and installing from CPAN etc conflicted with package version

[19:20:53]

gbee_:

but I was thinking exactly the same last night, python and perl dependencies are a pain

[19:21:55]

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[19:26:11]

Dagmar:

gbee: Yeah but i'll only grab things you don't have

[19:26:23]

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[19:27:21]

gbee_:

Dagmar: aye, I just meant if you later install the package version

[19:27:56]

gbee_:

it's far better than nothing, don't get me wrong

[19:28:03]

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[19:28:14]

high-rez:

Hmmf. Installed the pre-reqs and still get a blank screen :(

[19:28:53]

Dagmar:

NOthing coming from stdout?

[19:29:11]

Dagmar:

Yer starting the frontend with a way to catch the console output, right?

[19:29:23]

gbee_:

it would have been neater if perl/python modules weren't packaged at all, but instead they were covered by meta packages which simply invoked CPAN or it's python equivalent

[19:29:53]

Dagmar:

Well, there's still the matter of preserving the system's software inventory

[19:30:17]

gbee_:

heh, yeah :/

[19:30:22]

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[19:33:47]

Dagmar:

Bleh. I need to find someone whose used up their ICC instance so I can go do some measurements

[19:34:15]

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[19:34:28]

high-rez:

Dagmar: Yeah nothing spewing from stdout

[19:34:32]

Dagmar:

Drat

[19:34:49]

Dagmar:

iamlindoro will probably know something when he comes on

[19:35:23]

high-rez:

The first time I use it I should do browse internet video/manage site subscriptions right?

[19:35:45]

Dagmar:

I think so. NOt entirely sure

[19:38:37]

high-rez:

Hmm

[19:38:48]

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[19:44:54]

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[19:45:12]

high-rez:

It looks like the python scripts aren't executing

[19:45:50]

high-rez:

Failinmg to import the api script – but not sure why

[19:46:38]

Dagmar:

That's odd

[19:47:35]

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[19:49:14]

iamlindoro:

run the api script

[19:49:41]

iamlindoro:

python /usr/share/mythtv/mythnetvision/scripts/nv_python_libs/youtube/youtube_api.py

[19:49:49]

iamlindoro:

change path as appropriate

[19:51:26]

iamlindoro:

hopefully you're not running some ancient distro with old python

[19:52:01]

peterpan13_ptl:

any idea why on my mac frontend, I keep getting the "spinning pinwheel of death" whenever I try to either Watch TV or watch a recorded show, even if it's in standard def? Everything else in the frontend is accessible to me, including scheduling and so forth... I've tried using both precompiled binaries and have compiled using the automated perl script from the command line... both versions are having the same problem...

[19:52:55]

Dagmar:

Not a clue. Zero idea about the inner lives of macs

[19:53:27]

kormoc:

peterpan13_ptl: check the logs?

[19:53:41]

Dagmar:

Sounds like maybe the player is just not working. HOpefully it'll be saying something to the console about it

[19:53:54]

Dagmar:

Something *obvious* (crosses fingers)

[19:54:03]

Dagmar:

LIke "AHh! Can't find quartz!"

[19:55:31]

peterpan13_ptl:

ugggg

[19:56:02]

Dagmar:

Pretty sure it's not saying "ugggg"

[19:57:21]

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[19:58:41]

peterpan13_ptl:

haha, nope, that's just me sighing.... Dagmar, you saved me last night... maybe I'm pushing my luck, trying to get this thing working on the mac tonight.... I've got the logs, but, well.... it might as well be saying "uggg"!

[20:00:23]

kormoc:

so add a -v playback ?

[20:00:43]

Dagmar:

...and possibly a 2>&1 > mythfrontend.log

[20:01:24]

Dagmar:

Like, for it to just *not* do anything but give you a spinning cursor means something very large went "NO." and brought things to a halt

[20:01:37]

Dagmar:

THis is something that's VERY likely to have resulted in an error message

[20:02:08]

Dagmar:

The good news is that the larger and more obvious the thing, the easier it is to prod into working

[20:02:10]

kormoc:

Dagmar: why the love for 2>&1 > file vs &> file?

[20:02:27]

Dagmar:

Because I'm old skool

[20:03:11]

kormoc:

meh, it's just one of those things that people seem to just not do, even noobs

[20:03:21]

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[20:05:10]

Dagmar:

I <3 inkscape so much

[20:05:29]

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[20:14:11]

joshborke:

i don't get inkscape :(

[20:14:25]

Dagmar:

It's just freaking awesome for diagrams

[20:14:59]

gbee_:

inkscape makes us all artists

[20:15:02]

Dagmar:

Gimme a minute and I'll show you what I was just working on

[20:16:21]

joshborke:

kormoc: noobs don't do &> file because they find 2>&1 > file online ;-)

[20:17:12]

Dagmar:

So like, I play World of Warcraft. Regardless of what some kids with too much time would say, parts of the game are HARD and require literally a "game plan" just to win the fight

[20:17:19]

Dagmar:

Expressing this without visuals is a bitch

[20:17:22]

Dagmar:

http://s152.photobucket.com/albums/s188/evild . . . sargeras.png

[20:17:22]

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[20:18:02]

Dagmar:

That particular encounter pretty much requires pairs of kiters in a rather unforgiving arrangement

[20:18:24]

Dagmar:

Unless everyone can internalize it so they can adapt on the fly, it's just pain and frustration all around

[20:18:33]

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[20:19:10]

Dagmar:

THat's about twenty minutes' work in Inkscape

[20:20:18]

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[20:21:28]

Dagmar:

Five more minutes to add a few labels, ten minutes to write it up and put it on the guild website, and we should be able to whip that guy's ass next weekend, even though we're pretty undergeared

[20:23:52]

gbee_:

Dagmar: I've no idea what I'm looking at, but it is a good example of the different applications that inkscape can be put to

[20:27:42]

peterpan13_ptl:

could this be the problem: from the frontend log: kernel[0]: IOAudioStream[0x529d100]::clipIfNecessary() – Error: attempting to clip to

[20:27:42]

peterpan13_ptl:

a position more than one buffer ahead of last clip position (0,640)->(17,19a3).

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[20:37:58]

frogonwheels:

I'm having problems with mythfilldatabase using the shepherd grabber for .AU data. It _seem_ to be all running fine, and the log -v all shows it inserting a bunch of records.. but I'm just not seeing the channel guid come up anywhere

[20:38:07]

elmojo:

after trying out XBMC I just don't get what the big deal is all about

[20:38:31]

elmojo:

can't changed audio tracks, the subtitles sometimes appear but are always stuck in French

[20:38:44]

elmojo:

makes me like the Internal player so much more

[20:39:10]

elmojo:

very pretty graphics though

[20:41:04]

frogonwheels:

for eg: 2010-01–22 08:39:19.654 MSqlQuery::exec() "REPLACE INTO program ( chanid, title, subtitle, description, category, category_type, starttime, endtime, closecaptioned, stereo, hdtv, subtitled, subtitletypes, audioprop, videoprop, partnumber, parttotal, syndicatedepisodenumber, airdate, originalairdate,listingsource, seriesid, programid,

[20:41:05]

frogonwheels:

previouslyshown, stars, showtype, title_pronounce, colorcode ) VALUES( '2202', 'Australian Open 2010', 'Day 10, Night Session', 'Day ten coverage continues of the quarterfinals of the Grand Slam of Asia-Pacific where viewers can expect the biggest names in tennis and the hottest action in years. Hosted by Johanna Griggs.', 'sport', 'sports', '2010-01–27T19:30:00', '2010-01–28T00:30:00', '

[20:41:06]

frogonwheels:

false', 'false', 'false', 'true', '2', '0', '0', '0', '0', '', '2010', '', '4', '166232448', '', 'false', '', '', 'Australian Open 2010'PRON, '')"

[20:41:08]

frogonwheels:

sorry

[20:41:50]

frogonwheels:

.. but this is being executed without (seemingly) any errors

[20:42:03]

gbee_:

elmojo: it's all about the graphics and/or xbmc's pirate friendly features

[20:42:47]

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[20:43:24]

frogonwheels:

oh sure.. _now_ it works. All I needed to do was ask for help on #irc apparently ;)

[20:43:45]

gbee_:

xbmc devs don't like me pointing out the latter, they get quite upset in fact

[20:44:26]

gbee_:

so in the interests of a quiet life, I take it back ;)

[20:45:17]

frogonwheels:

gbee_: I've been quite impressed with elisa/moovida configuration is rather under-done, and I have NO idea how it would work with TV, though it has a section for tv programs..

[20:46:01]

frogonwheels:

youtube playback on it is great.

[20:46:04]

gbee_:

and you have to pay for the codecs

[20:47:04]

gbee_:

elisa makes sense when you know that it was written by professionals to sell those codecs, it's a vehicle

[20:47:34]

gbee_:

I don't begrude anyone trying to make money (unless it's at my expense)

[20:47:38]

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[20:49:54]

elmojo:

gbee_: yeah... at the end of the day I want things to work not just look pretty although I must say I do like a lot of the new MythUI looks

[20:50:15]

gbee_:

mythtv is getting there, probably faster that any reasonable person probably expected

[20:50:38]

gbee_:

strike one of those probablys

[20:50:50]

Caliban:

Hey, anyone want to help me out with a recordedseek problem, or at least a problem that points in that direction?

[20:53:10]

Caliban:

I've got a problem with the duration of my new recordings.

[20:53:30]

elmojo:

gbee_: yes and largely due to your efforts ;)

[20:53:34]

Caliban:

The actual length is fine, but MythTV thinks they're only 85% of their actual length.

[20:54:37]

Caliban:

Anyone care to hazard a guess what the problem is?

[20:54:45]

frogonwheels:

gbee_: I didn't know that about elisa

[20:57:26]

gbee_:

elmojo: not really, I'm not merely being modest when I say that it's a team effort, I may have contributed a lot in a short time frame but as a fraction of the total body of work it's tiny

[21:00:36]

gbee_:

IMHO the coolest and killer features are not ones I had anything to do with, nor was anything I've written especially hard, anyone could have done it – something I can't say about other parts of the code

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[21:05:03]

elmojo:

gbee_: heh, the codebase is quite large these days ;)

[21:05:20]

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[21:06:04]

gbee_:

the work you've done recently is fantastic, like gnome42 you were willing to work out those annoying little gremlins that the rest of us had learnt to live with

[21:06:25]

elmojo:

gnome42 is my hero

[21:06:25]

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[21:07:25]

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[21:07:27]

SnakesAndStuff:

Hello

[21:07:42]

elmojo:

gbee_: what was really cool is that I submitted a fairly trivial patch for AVChapter support all of a sudden it's got full OSD menu support out of no where

[21:07:50]

gbee_:

Mark is my current hero, I was kidding myself if I ever believed I could manage the mythui OSD port, way too steep a learning curve

[21:07:50]

SnakesAndStuff:

Anyone here have advice on fixing nvidia overscan issues over HDMI output other than adjusting it within the mythtv settings?

[21:09:35]

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[21:09:39]

elmojo:

gbee_: I've been pleasantly surprised by how simple most of the patches needed to be since most, if not all, the code was already there and just needed some simple changes

[21:10:09]

gbee_:

SnakesAndStuff: start with your TV? The TV is overscanning after all, not the GPU or myth, many allow you to turn off overscan (and some just don't overscan to begin with)

[21:10:39]

SnakesAndStuff:

gbee_: Not sure about service menu codes etc.... and also, if I use other devices over the same HDMI won't I have to manually reset every time?

[21:10:52]

gbee_:

elmojo: it's taking the time to figure it all out

[21:11:15]

gbee_:

SnakesAndStuff: only if those devices underscan, and they shouldn't

[21:12:07]

Dagmar:

SnakesAndStuff: I'm not aware that the overscan settings from nvidia-settings is going to affect HDMI output

[21:12:24]

Dagmar:

SnakesAndStuff: Your TV should simply *not* be doing overscan stuff on a digital signal.

[21:12:34]

Dagmar:

Look on your TV's remote and see if it's got a button for picture modes

[21:13:08]

Dagmar:

Some will have two modes for 4:3 content, one of which is almost indistinguishable from the other becuase of a 5% rescaling (which is overscan)

[21:13:19]

Dagmar:

Otherwise, you're probably just out of luck for the time being

[21:13:45]

Dagmar:

Barring that, if your TV has a VGA input, use that

[21:14:10]

Dagmar:

VGA inputs which have overscan compensation applied to them would be, frankly, insane

[21:14:11]

gbee_:

overscan is something the TV does, it's actually pretty stupid, dates back to when CRTs couldn't help overscanning so broadcasters avoided putting anything important in that 5% around the screen – modern TVs don't overscan because they aren't using CRT but manufacturers for some reason thought they should fake it otherwise people would find the framing odd (as though seeing more of the picture would be a bad thing!)

[21:15:27]

gbee_:

my Sony Bravia doesn't fake overscan at all, maybe I'm just very lucky

[21:15:37]

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[21:15:43]

Dagmar:

Sony isn't all that stupid, and they expect connecting equipment to be _theirs_

[21:15:48]

Dagmar:

...so... no problems there

[21:15:54]

Dagmar:

;)

[21:16:11]

gbee_:

heh

[21:16:28]

Dagmar:

The Sanyo I got doesn't overscan on a digital signal either

[21:16:39]

Dagmar:

I checked that out in advance

[21:17:04]

Dagmar:

Took my laptop with me and a graphic with "If you can't see this, the display sucks" in the 5% margin space

[21:17:51]

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[21:17:52]

Dagmar:

I wasn't going to be spending $700 on anything that didn't handle digital signals correctly

[21:18:13]

Dagmar:

After some further testing, it does overscan on the analog inputs

[21:18:28]

Dagmar:

Well, on the composite one. The component input, no overscan.

[21:18:31]

Dagmar:

So... It's sane.

[21:19:02]

Caliban:

So, no-one has any idea about the cause of my program duration issue?

[21:19:15]

Caliban:

Ive tried everything I can think of.

[21:19:36]

Dagmar:

I've no idea what issue you're talking about

[21:20:21]

Caliban:

I've got a problem with the duration of my new recordings.

[21:20:27]

Caliban:

The actual length is fine, but MythTV thinks they're only 85% of their actual length.

[21:20:30]

Dagmar:

I scrolled up and found it

[21:20:34]

Caliban:

OK.

[21:20:34]

Dagmar:

What are you recording from?

[21:20:42]

Caliban:

PVR-350s

[21:20:42]

Dagmar:

THat tidbit I didn't see

[21:20:44]

Dagmar:

Hmm..

[21:21:20]

Dagmar:

When you say "myth thinks" what part of the interface are you getting the program duration from?

[21:21:27]

Caliban:

This box has worked fine for more than 3 years, but I recently upgraded to 0.22 fixes and the problem started around that time, although I can't say for sure that it coincided with it.

[21:21:34]

gbee_:

even on the analogue it doesn't have to overscan, it's doing so only to compensate for the broadcasters compensating – catch22, at least the BBC have always broadcast a complete picture but framed it so that you could lose 5% without it being a big deal e.g. news tickers, clocks are within the 'safe area'

[21:21:36]

Dagmar:

For all I know right now you might just be seeing the "sans commericals" length

[21:21:44]

Caliban:

'info' while playing it, so 'i' on the keyboard.

[21:21:57]

Caliban:

a 30 minute programme will be consistently 24:35.

[21:22:15]

Caliban:

I can fix it by running mythcommflag on it, but I don't know why it happens in the first place.

[21:22:37]

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[21:22:55]

Caliban:

After mythcommflag, it's 30 minutes (or 29:59, but that's normal).

[21:23:17]

Caliban:

Usually, this means a corrupt recordedseektable.

[21:23:27]

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[21:23:27]

Caliban:

I've had a couple of those over the years.

[21:23:35]

Dagmar:

Note the signature

[21:23:37]

Dagmar:

wrong chan

[21:23:43]

gbee_:

definitely a seek table thing, a bug in the seek table creation code, might be failing to write the last 5 minutes of the table or using the wrong framerate etc

[21:23:45]

Dagmar:

Caliban: Yeah I agree with you

[21:23:53]

Dagmar:

Something's messing up the seektable somehow

[21:24:01]

Caliban:

This time, it's different, though. It's every new recording.

[21:24:10]

Caliban:

And it's consistently the same peercentage out of whack.

[21:24:12]

Dagmar:

Are you using some setting for the encoder other than the defaults, and when was the last time you looked into a possibly newer firmware set?

[21:24:25]

Dagmar:

Yeah if it's the same amount out of whack that would definitely be a bug

[21:24:29]

gbee_:

Caliban: it's not a corruption issue, at least not in the traditional sense, file a bug

[21:24:52]

Caliban:

No, I'm using the defaults. The firmware has worked fine for 3 years.

[21:25:20]

Caliban:

Yeah, I wasn't sure it started at exactly the same time I compiled 0.22-fixes, which is why I haven't filed a bug yet.

[21:25:23]

gbee_:

some changes were made to that area of the code between 0.21 and 0.22, but I don't remember exactly what they were

[21:25:24]

Dagmar:

Regardless, check Hauppauge's site for the latest.

[21:25:32]

Dagmar:

It's not like you can't shuffle them around between reboots

[21:25:42]

Caliban:

I also couldn't imagine it would be affecting only me.

[21:25:52]

Caliban:

I'll check their site.

[21:25:56]

Dagmar:

You *might* be one of the few people still using a firmware three years old

[21:26:26]

Dagmar:

I've got a PVR-500 still and I haven't had this issue, and the firmware I use is probably about a year old if that

[21:26:34]

Dagmar:

If you need it I'll md5sum that directory and pastebin it for you

[21:26:40]

gbee_:

I'm guessing that not many devs are still using SD analogue capture but digital, firewire or the HD-PVR

[21:27:05]

Caliban:

These cards are pretty well supported by the ivtv stuff, so I imagine most people don't mess with the firmware if the card works perfectly, which mine did. There are also a couple of PVR-150s in the box (in addition to 2 PVR-350s) and all cards produce the same problem.

[21:27:16]

Dagmar:

gbee: Oh that reminds me. Are *you* using an HD-PVR?

[21:27:25]

Caliban:

No.

[21:27:39]

Dagmar:

caliban: Yeah that would also point to the firmware as being a possible source of the oddness

[21:27:45]

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[21:28:03]

gbee_:

firmware is a possibility, if it's reporting the wrong framerate 25 vs 30 would neatly explain the difference

[21:28:13]

Caliban:

If it were the firmware, why would mythcommflag fix it?

[21:28:16]

Dagmar:

...and being that it takes less than about five minutes to look at it, it makes it pretty high on the triage list

[21:28:44]

Dagmar:

Caliban: Because it actually reads the file instead of taking the information it got from the tuner card on faith

[21:28:47]

gbee_:

Caliban: check that it's configured for NTSC and not PAL (or vice versa if you live outside the US)

[21:29:02]

SnakesAndStuff:

Well crap, not having any luck with the service menu... it is an older projection TV

[21:29:10]

Dagmar:

25/30 = 0.8333333

[21:29:14]

Dagmar:

I suspect gbee may have nailed it

[21:29:43]

Dagmar:

SnakesAndStuff: Ah you might hit up the manufacturer's website,

[21:29:58]

Caliban:

I'm in thhe Netherlands. These cards have either an NTSC or PAL tuner, but never both. I'll paste the dmesg stuff.

[21:30:05]

Dagmar:

It's not likely an older one would have a USB port, but if it *does* then there might be an update you can apply to the TV

[21:30:33]

Caliban:

ivtv0: Autodetected Hauppauge card (cx23415 based)

[21:30:34]

Caliban:

ACPI: PCI Interrupt 0000:02:09.0[A] -> GSI 21 (level, low) -> IRQ 22

[21:30:34]

Caliban:

lirc_serial: auto-detected active high receiver

[21:30:34]

Caliban:

lirc_dev: lirc_register_plugin: sample_rate: 0

[21:30:34]

Caliban:

ivtv0: loaded v4l-cx2341x-enc.fw firmware (4153830184 bytes)

[21:30:34]

Caliban:

ivtv0: loaded v4l-cx2341x-dec.fw firmware (4153830152 bytes)

[21:30:36]

Caliban:

ivtv0: Encoder revision: 0x02060039

[21:30:38]

Caliban:

ivtv0: Decoder revision: 0x02020023

[21:30:40]

Caliban:

tveeprom 1–0050: Hauppauge model 48139, rev K2B7, serial# 9994410

[21:30:42]

Caliban:

tveeprom 1–0050: tuner model is Philips FM1216ME MK5 (idx 117, type 38)

[21:30:44]

Caliban:

tveeprom 1–0050: TV standards PAL(B/G) PAL(I) SECAM(L/L') PAL(D/D1/K) (eeprom 0x74)

[21:30:46]

Caliban:

tveeprom 1–0050: audio processor is MSP4418 (idx 25)

[21:30:47]

Dagmar:

Ack don't pasteflood the channel

[21:30:48]

Caliban:

tveeprom 1–0050: decoder processor is SAA7115 (idx 19)

[21:30:50]

Caliban:

tveeprom 1–0050: has radio, has IR receiver, has no IR transmitter

[21:30:52]

Caliban:

ivtv0: Autodetected Hauppauge WinTV PVR-350

[21:31:00]

Caliban:

Sorry.

[21:31:01]

gbee_:

Caliban: but the one driver runs both NTSC and PAL cards, it needs to be given the correct capture mode (it doesn't work it out from the hardware)

[21:31:20]

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[21:31:26]

Dagmar:

Yeah it's possible since most of the devs are doing NTSC that that's a genuine bug

[21:31:37]

Caliban:

Actually, I believe ivtv does autodetect the correct tuner type.

[21:31:40]

Dagmar:

But if you're saying 83.3% then this pretty much HAS to do with selecting PAL or NTSC

[21:32:15]

Dagmar:

Caliban: That wouldn't stop a bit from being set wrong in mythtv-setup, or an outright bug from expecting NTSC instead of PAL

[21:32:57]

Dagmar:

If you can get it to cough up a duration that shows an 83.3% discrepancy, I'd actually go ahead and fill out a bug report

[21:33:13]

Caliban:

Hmm, well the cards are all set to PAL-?? (I forget the letters exactly). This hasn't changed in 3+ years.

[21:33:20]

Caliban:

OK, I guess I'll file that bug.

[21:33:24]

Dagmar:

"Any old difference" might be a lot of things, but 83.3 would just scream PAL/NTSC issue

[21:33:31]

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[21:33:40]

Dagmar:

Could be myth is reading the info about how the tuner should be configured and just screwing up and setting NTSC now anyway

[21:33:56]

Dagmar:

One dev with PAL tuners would be able to verify it pretty easily

[21:33:57]

gbee_:

I've not used my PVR-150 in a while so I've forgotten the detail of how it's configured, but I swear that either in the ivtv config, mythtv-setup or the recording profiles the question of NTSC/PAL comes up

[21:34:05]

Dagmar:

It does

[21:34:10]

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[21:34:26]

Dagmar:

I'm betting NTSC is at the top of the list tho

[21:34:52]

Dagmar:

...which means it's possible it's screwing up getting the info from the DB or otherwise thinking it's NTSC by default/side-effect

[21:36:00]

gbee_:

aye, definitely can't rule out a regression, but it would be nice to rule out a config problem before opening the ticket

[21:36:13]

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[21:36:16]

Caliban:

ivtv is configured via modules.conf. The stuff in there hasn't changed in years and these are recognised tuners (they used to change models every now and again and some would be unrecognised), so these are autosensed.

[21:36:22]

Dagmar:

Ignore that stuff

[21:36:38]

Dagmar:

Check mythtv-setup and make sure it still thinks you're recording PAL and not NTSC

[21:36:39]

Caliban:

The only place you configure PAL vs. NTSC is in mythtv-setup, and that's had PAL configured for years.

[21:36:46]

Dagmar:

Do eet.

[21:36:49]

gbee_:

I'd try the PVR-150 but I've no free PCI slots and disassembling a working system is something I'd like to avoid

[21:36:59]

Caliban:

Yeah, I've just checked for the 8th time today. :-) Definitely PAL.

[21:37:05]

Dagmar:

If it screwed up the db upgrade and changed that to NTSC it would be a different sort of bug

[21:37:07]

Dagmar:

Okay file a bug report

[21:37:14]

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[21:37:42]

Dagmar:

Alternatively, change the script you start the backend with to use -v all and schedule a recording

[21:37:51]

Caliban:

PAL-BG/PAL Teletext/europe-west in locale settings.

[21:37:59]

Dagmar:

HOPE that it says something in the log output about whether or not it told the card PAL or NTSC

[21:38:05]

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[21:38:22]

Dagmar:

There *may* be a way to get the card to cough up it's current configuration to you using ivtv-ctl once it's recording (or v4l-ctl now)

[21:38:51]

gbee_:

you know what? I think I remember a potential cause for this one – the ivtv driver changed the format or something for the PAL/NTSC lines, I remember Isaac grouching about it

[21:39:02]

Dagmar:

Wouldn't suprise me

[21:39:06]

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[21:39:18]

gbee_:

Caliban: what version of ivtv are you using?

[21:39:39]

Dagmar:

Probably more usefully, what kernel are you using, since you've probably got ivtv coming from the kernel

[21:39:44]

gbee_:

or that

[21:39:47]

Dagmar:

It's been a kernel module for a looong time

[21:40:00]

Caliban:

2.6.22.9, unchanged for quite a while now.

[21:40:09]

Dagmar:

I'll be pointing fingers with great abandon if you're still using an out-of-tree ivtv

[21:40:22]

Caliban:

No, I'm not.

[21:40:43]

Caliban:

I forget when it was added to the kernel, but it was a revision or two before this.

[21:41:03]

Dagmar:

That would officially be "old as hell"

[21:41:09]

gbee_:

Caliban: that might be your problem then, if Chutt put in a fix for a change in driver API and I think he did, then it would break compatibility with the old drivers

[21:41:19]

Caliban:

v4l2-ctl -S ~

[21:41:19]

Caliban:

Video Standard = 0x00000007

[21:41:23]

Dagmar:

If you know how to rebuild the kernel, the latest kernel would get you back up to speed

[21:41:53]

Caliban:

PAL-B/B1/G

[21:42:00]

Dagmar:

ivtv stable 1.1.0 (which is OLD) was for kernel 2.6.25

[21:42:09]

Dagmar:

You're running an older version than even that

[21:42:10]

gbee_:

ouch

[21:42:28]

gbee_:

yeah, that _is_ old

[21:42:40]

Caliban:

Yeah, well I treat this box as an appliance. I don't mess with it.

[21:42:50]

Dagmar:

I was hoping to see something about that format change on ivtvdriver.org, but it at least shows which versions of ivtv went into which kernels

[21:42:52]

Caliban:

Of course, in putting 0.22 on it, I did mess with it. :-(

[21:42:59]

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[21:43:04]

Dagmar:

Caliban: I actually applaud your care for treating it like that

[21:43:23]

Dagmar:

However, if you're running 0.22 you now have a piece of software which expects a MUCH newer kernel and ivtv driver

[21:43:47]

Dagmar:

When you make upgrades very infrequently, you often have to make a lot of them at once to keep the various pieces in step

[21:44:07]

gbee_:

sphery: oh font of all wisdom, can you remember the changes Isaac made relating to a change in ivtv and ntsc/pal? It would be helpful to point to a particular commit and also confirm that I've not just imagined it

[21:44:13]

Dagmar:

Otherwise following the "if it's not broken don't fix it" approach is pretty f**king professional-level behaviour

[21:44:39]

Dagmar:

No sarcasm. You're doing good

[21:44:56]

Dagmar:

I wish I could get more people to take that approach

[21:45:34]

Caliban:

I've actually tried to upgrade the kernel on this box a couple of times, but I had to roll back, due to NFS issues (the box records over NFS). lirc also stopped working beyond a certain kernel number, but I forgetw which now.

[21:45:48]

Dagmar:

Yeah you'll need a newer lirc as well

[21:45:57]

Dagmar:

That *should* be the only other "gotcha" to that tho

[21:46:25]

Dagmar:

0.8.6 supports 2.6.31 and probably higher

[21:46:34]

Caliban:

I was running SVN (or maybe it was CVS) lirc at the time. The serial port just stopped working beyond 2.6.24, I think it was.

[21:46:43]

Caliban:

I spent a lot of time troubleshooting that at the time.

[21:46:52]

Dagmar:

Meh. Serial port issues are cake

[21:47:24]

Dagmar:

versioned module directories being the default, if you're not slack with grub/lilo you can easily back all this out at any time

[21:47:47]

gbee_:

I can't find anything by searching, Isaac may not have made the commit himself, but I'm pretty damn sure he was talking about it, more than once

[21:47:47]

Caliban:

And I actually am a IT pro of 20 years, so that's why I employ the leave-it-alone philosophy.

[21:47:51]

** gbee_ shrugs **

[21:48:09]

Dagmar:

Caliban: Well, then I guess I was dead on about the professional behaviour then

[21:48:20]

Dagmar:

<-- predates internet porn

[21:48:28]

Dagmar:

well, color VGA porn for sure

[21:48:51]

Caliban:

Yeah, well that's what I had to do. I spent a lot of time trying to get a newer lirc to work (I can't remember why it was important now), but I had to roll back. Spent a ton of time on it at the time.

[21:49:11]

Caliban:

Dagmar: ha, yeah, things have come a long way since my first ZX-80.

[21:49:17]

Dagmar:

You probably hit it during one of those two "dead spots" where lirc was lagging behing kernel interface changes

[21:49:31]

Dagmar:

TI 99–4/a and a C=64 here

[21:49:46]

Caliban:

Could be. I posted a lot to the lirc list, but no-one could figure it out.

[21:50:36]

Caliban:

I think I was trying to get some kind of new Canadian turbo-charged IR blaster to work.

[21:51:23]

Caliban:

Anyway, it's unrelated to this problem now, except that I know that kernels up to about 2.4.26 gave me trouble. I could try again now, though.

[21:51:27]

Caliban:

This was a while ago.

[21:51:32]

Dagmar:

Well, being that I use a serial transciever and I run Slackware, there's not going to be anything that could go wrong witht hat end of it that I won't be able to sort

[21:51:35]

Caliban:

More than a year at least.

[21:51:51]

Dagmar:

Slackware: Making admins do most of it themselves since 1993!

[21:52:47]

Caliban:

The problem was that lirc couldn't see anything on the serial port. It was really odd. One kernel version back, everything worked fine.

[21:53:13]

Caliban:

Maybe it got fixed later as a side-effect of something else.

[21:53:19]

Dagmar:

There was a change that tanked me for about twenty minutes while I figured out how to make the serial kernel module _let go_ of the serial port

[21:53:35]

Dagmar:

It was definitely a change in the way the kernel handled that

[21:53:43]

Caliban:

modprobe -r, you mean?

[21:53:47]

Dagmar:

Before you could just not tell the kernel to handle the serial port

[21:54:26]

Caliban:

I suppose I could set up a user job to mythcommflag everything, but tthat would suck.

[21:54:32]

Dagmar:

echo "Configuring the serial port for LIRC."

[21:54:33]

Dagmar:

/sbin/setserial /dev/$SERIALPORT uart none 2>/dev/null

[21:54:39]

Dagmar:

Makes it let go

[21:55:00]

Caliban:

I thought you meant making lirc let it go, my removing lirc_serial.

[21:55:04]

Dagmar:

Before you had to actually tell it to grab 'em with setserial, then one day it started doing it on it's own as a part of some of the udev magic

[21:55:29]

Dagmar:

Once the kernel's serial driver has grabbed the uart, lirc's driver can't anymore

[21:55:40]

Dagmar:

Hence you gotta thwack it on the head like an angry turtle

[21:56:24]

Tanthrix:

Nifty, my HD-PVR just shipped from Amazon.

[21:56:32]

Caliban:

Yeah, I have to do that, too. From my modprobe.conf:

[21:56:32]

Tanthrix:

Much earier than expected by a few weeks.

[21:56:34]

Caliban:

install ivtv /bin/setserial /dev/ttyS0 uart none; /sbin/modprobe lirc_serial; /sbin/modprobe --ignore-install ivtv; /sbin/modprobe lirc_mceusb2

[21:56:54]

Dagmar:

Tanthrix: Remember when you get it you'll probably want to find something to install Arcsoft (the software it comes with) on so it'll upgrade the firmware

[21:56:58]

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[21:57:06]

Dagmar:

Tanthrix: It'll probably ship with firmware "0xf" installed, which has that cool bug

[21:57:21]

Caliban:

Anyway, v4l2-ctl -S ~

[21:57:28]

Tanthrix:

Dagmar: Thanks for the advice, I'll remember that. I've got a few windows systems, so it won't be a problem.

[21:57:37]

Caliban:

still shows PAL-B/B1/G, so that's all good.

[21:57:43]

Dagmar:

Yep that's good

[21:57:50]

Caliban:

It's just in Myth somewhere.

[21:58:01]

Caliban:

Bummer if it just assumes a newer ivtv.

[21:58:12]

Dagmar:

There's not really any reasonable way for it to check

[21:58:27]

Caliban:

I checked the prereqs before I did the upgrade and this wasn't mentioned.

[21:58:49]

bonelifer:

Anyone heard of of a SSD brand called Imation? Would one of their SSD's be good for a Frontend/Backend system, with the video/audio on a seperate 1TB WD drive.

[21:59:02]

Dagmar:

Imation is Maxell, IIRC

[21:59:03]

Caliban:

0.21-fixes still worked like a charm.

[21:59:04]

Dagmar:

Should be fine

[21:59:36]

bonelifer:

great, had never heard of them and a 32GB SSD for less than a $100, was suspicious at first

[21:59:43]

Caliban:

Perhaps I should just make a user job of mythcommflag for now.

[22:00:02]

Caliban:

It will run twice for some recordings, but oh well.

[22:00:14]

Dagmar:

Caliban: There's a number of other things you might want in the newer kernels

[22:00:22]

Caliban:

Such as?

[22:00:28]

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[22:00:38]

Dagmar:

Like, for me, an elimination of the collision between ACPI and the bloody w87234ehf module for temp sensors

[22:01:03]

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[22:01:19]

Dagmar:

("87234" is just some numbers I typed, the letters are correct--you get the idea)

[22:01:43]

Caliban:

I have no other problems on this box. It's recorded thousands of hours of TV over 3.5 years. But I had to upgrade to 0.22, didn't I? Grr. Broke my own golden rule.

[22:02:00]

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[22:02:19]

Caliban:

If I suddenly go 2 years worth of kernel development into the future, I'm afraid I may get more than I bargained for.

[22:02:37]

Dagmar:

Meh. Probably not going to happen

[22:02:47]

Caliban:

Frankly, I'd be stunned if I fixed my MythTV problem, but picked up no new problems.

[22:02:52]

Dagmar:

The worst will be doing the "Y/N of A Thousand Steps" when you run `make oldconfig`

[22:03:13]

Dagmar:

That bit will take, um, a *while*

[22:03:37]

Caliban:

That doesn't worry me, but there are bound to be quite a few other changes — like your ACPI example.

[22:03:48]

Dagmar:

I'm not sure whether or not this will be relevant but I suspect it is... "It's okay to say "M" to all the crypto modules"

[22:04:18]

Dagmar:

Caliban: All that stuff is just fixes that happened in space you wouldn't have generally had to deal with

[22:04:37]

Dagmar:

So there's not likely to be any other "If you upgrade this, you must also upgrade that" issues

[22:05:31]

Dagmar:

I went from having my sensors working one day, to not the next as a result of ACPI protecting itself a little better against lm_sensors kicking it in the teeth, and then the resulting fix to make them both play nice

[22:06:09]

Dagmar:

The _reason_ the acpi modules behaviour changed is that under certain circumstances, lm_sensors could prod it the wrong way and bork your power settings

[22:06:30]

Caliban:

No, I'm more concerned about tiny, OS-level problems. Hangs that didn't happen before. Other kinds of instability. Conflicts that weren't there before. I've upgraded a lot of kernels in my time, both at home and in huge production environments, and I've learned the hard way to be very, very cautious and sceptical.

[22:06:38]

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[22:06:45]

Dagmar:

Oh 2.6 is no longer like that

[22:07:03]

Dagmar:

I've been upgrading my kernel quarterly and haven't had a single issue like that in the last two years at least

[22:07:29]

Dagmar:

There's none of that sketchy stuff that was going on in 2.5

[22:08:53]

Caliban:

That's a nice incremental upgrade path. The number of code check-ins since 2.6.22 is very, very large. The chances of being bitten by something tiny are quite real. Whether the kernel is Linux, FreeBSD or anything else, this kind of stuff can get you. My wife watches TV on that box, so I have to tread very carefully. ;-)

[22:09:12]

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[22:09:17]

Dagmar:

So it's a _good_ thing that rolling back the kernel just requires one reboot

[22:09:37]

Caliban:

Yep, true.

[22:10:11]

Dagmar:

The only issue I've had has been the occasional "jillion questions from `make oldconfig`"

[22:10:19]

Dagmar:

...and that's been the result of a bunch of renaming they did

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[22:12:13]

Caliban:

IRC client crashed. They don't make anything like they used to.

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[23:09:45]

nutron:

*chirp*

[23:11:56]

Viper550:

*grrrrakakakakakakgrrr*

[23:12:21]

sphery:

elmojo: I can't do any testing, but it looks like you need to remove the "else" block at mythavtest/main.cpp lines 125 – 128 for a short term local fix. Now that CommandLineParser::Parse() is using an boolean to report errors, it shouldn't return false without an error. I'll do a real fix when I get back home (next Wed or Thur).

[23:12:24]

nutron:

wtf? Be quiet.

[23:17:19]

elmojo:

sphery: no rush... I've already fixed it locally so it's not causing me any issues... enjoy your trip

[23:19:06]

sphery:

thx

[23:19:17]

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[23:19:35]

nutron:

sphery: where ya off to?

[23:20:35]

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[23:21:02]

sphery:

I'm babysitting my nephew about 150 miles from home.

[23:21:26]

sphery:

(while my sister and her husband go on vacation in Vegas... And all I got was...)

[23:21:45]

elmojo:

you mean they don't have a MythTV system!

[23:21:58]

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[23:22:10]

bonelifer:

at least you aren't having to walk 5 large dogs for them like I'm doing for my sister and b-i-l

[23:22:16]

sphery:

heh, no. DirecTV with their in-house DVR (used to have DirecTiVo).

[23:22:27]

sphery:

Fortunately, I bring my own TV to watch on my laptop. :)

[23:22:29]

elmojo:

I'm sorry to hear that

[23:23:13]

sphery:

They do have good Internet, but neither theirs nor mine at home is good enough for X forwarding of video playback (which is what I need for (proper :) mythavtest testing)

[23:23:53]

elmojo:

actually... mythavtest is you provide it with a filename immediately returns to the prompt

[23:23:57]

sphery:

Then again, I may do the fix "blind" with a DISPLAY=:0 after ssh'ing the machine and assume lack of errors is good.

[23:24:32]

sphery:

immediately after playback, right?

[23:24:45]

elmojo:

immediately after you press return

[23:24:54]

sphery:

I really haven't ever even started the program (not even when it was mythtv)

[23:25:12]

sphery:

you mean now--with the breakage--or before?

[23:25:17]

elmojo:

so you enter 'mythavtest video.ext' and hit return then you got straight back to the prompt

[23:25:28]

elmojo:

now with the breakage

[23:25:32]

sphery:

ah, yeah

[23:25:49]

sphery:

and when it works, it won't come back to the prompt and will spew playback log output, right?

[23:25:59]

elmojo:

yes, exactly

[23:26:24]

sphery:

cool... I may just fix it so I don't forget--but not until tomorrow (when the little one's at school). It's too late tonight.

[23:26:34]

sphery:

(meaning I'm likely to make mistakes :)

[23:26:37]

elmojo:

like I say... no rush

[23:26:49]

sphery:

yeah, thanks for reporting it--and tracking the breakage down to me

[23:27:03]

elmojo:

and if it makes you feel better you can't make it any worse

[23:27:06]

elmojo:

hehe

[23:27:11]

sphery:

good to know

[23:27:14]

sphery:

:)

[23:27:53]

sphery:

it actually won't change too much... just put MCLP first, then an else for getting the filename

[23:28:01]

elmojo:

I guess technically you could make it worse if you locked up my PC some how

[23:28:04]

sphery:

and no other else

[23:28:27]

sphery:

heh, I'll see if I can do that--but just yours

[23:29:13]

elmojo:

thanks... that'd be cool ;)

[23:31:41]

bonelifer:

Has any here used an Antec Fusion Remote Black case? Specifically has anyone tried to change out the LCD in the current models for something a little better. I've read the LCD isn't that great. Are these multiple reviewers wrong?

[23:32:15]

sphery:

not I... :(

[23:33:16]

bonelifer:

I managed to get one for 154(that's with shipping) and it looked as good as some of the others I saw with $250+ pricetags

[23:37:57]

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[23:38:15]

nutron:

I'm not running .22 yet, but from what I gather, the old themes were ditched for the new terra and graphite. Is there a reason the old ones haven't been re-used?

[23:38:45]

bonelifer:

They would have to be updated for the new mythui framework?

[23:40:04]

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[23:40:22]

nutron:

So, basically they need some elbowgrease?

[23:43:20]

bonelifer:

I wish I had Broadband. Alas DSL isn't happening in this state officially for awhile at least not here. And Cable is I fairly sure too far away. I'm not sure about fiber. I might try to get ISDN, but I'm sure it would confuse the ATT customer service when I tell them I want it at a residence. Though the Business section mentions it would be good for residences not able to get DSL. At least it did w

[23:43:20]

bonelifer:

hen I read it a few months ago. So it's a Zoom USB 56k modem for me to get XMLTV feeds from Schedules Direct.

[23:43:36]

bonelifer:

:(

[23:44:11]

nutron:

bonelifer: what state? Holy. No broadband?

[23:44:16]

bonelifer:

Arkansas

[23:45:12]

nutron:

Yikes.

[23:47:07]

bonelifer:

I live in Central Arkansas so if we don't have it, then unless they have it in Northwest Arkansas where the Razorbacks and the big moneys has it, it isn't like to be something to be had at all. I wish I live on the other side of town where the cable office is

[23:47:30]

bonelifer:

I'm even too far away from the local wireless internet service provider

[23:47:41]

bonelifer:

Broadband hates me

[23:49:31]

nutron:

Who is/was the guy behind project jupiter? (midnightcode.org) ?

[23:50:19]

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[23:55:30]

wagnerrp:

nutron: basically the problem is that the only themes were built around the limitations of the old framework

[23:55:55]

wagnerrp:

most people who are actually interested in doing the work to put a theme together want to try out new stuff, rather than just repairing the old themes

[23:56:05]

nutron:

Ahh I see.

[23:56:48]

nutron:

Are there more plans to change the workings of the theme "api"?

[23:57:00]

nutron:

Or has it settled down in the upcoming version?

[23:57:19]

wagnerrp:

yes, the new framework was only partially complete in 0.22

[23:57:31]

wagnerrp:

and theres still a lot of stuff that wont make it in by 0.23

[23:57:40]

jpabq:

This is probably a FAQ, so I am guessing sphery can help me :-p Is there a way to fix the way actors display in the Program Details screen? Any actor with special characters in their name displays poorly (multiple chars instead of the proper one). I have never messed with the character set used by mysql....

[23:58:18]

nutron:

wagnerrp: hmm rough, moving target...

[23:58:28]

nutron:

Is there a list of planned features in the bug tracker?

[23:58:37]

wagnerrp:

i wouldnt call it moving, so much as unfinished

[23:58:50]

wagnerrp:

the current feature set is pretty static

[23:58:57]

wagnerrp:

its just new capability that is getting added

[23:59:28]

wagnerrp:

for instance the new OSD has not yet been merged into trunk

[23:59:40]

wagnerrp:

and there are a number of 'widgets' that have yet to be written

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