Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Saturday, January 23rd, 2010, 00:04 AST

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Josh``:

.

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justinp_home:

Evening, folks – anybody ever seen an nvidia graphics card *not* support 16:10 format resolutions?

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elmojo:

justinp_home: never seen one.. what's going on?

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justinp_home:

Well, just picked up an Acer X223w 22" 16:10 monitor for my frontend

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justinp_home:

Have it hooked up to the frontend via VGA cable, and cannot for the live of me get it to work in its native resolution of 1680x1050

[00:59:03]

justinp_home:

or any 16:10 resolution, for that matter

[00:59:51]

justinp_home:

I don't think it's the video card, though – I found it in a few laptops with 16:10 screens, so it must support 16:10 output

[01:00:24]

elmojo:

what rez are you seeing?

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justinp_home:

Only res I've gotten working is 1280x1024

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elmojo:

sounds like maybe an EDID problem

[01:02:54]

justinp_home:

That's my thought too

[01:03:05]

justinp_home:

is there a way to manually specify EDID?

[01:03:21]

justinp_home:

VGA doesn't pass EDID, so manual would be my only option

[01:04:07]

elmojo:

the nvidia-settings utility allows you to save the EDID for a monitor

[01:05:11]

elmojo:

so if you can find a setup with a working 1680x1050 display then you could save the EDID using nvidia-settings

[01:05:39]

elmojo:

and override on the system that's not working in the xorg.conf file

[01:05:50]

elmojo:

have you tried the DVI/HDMI port?

[01:06:09]

elmojo:

if it has a proper EDID you can download it and then force it to work on the VGA port

[01:06:35]

elmojo:

gotta run... good luck

[01:07:15]

justinp_home:

thanks, elmojo

[01:08:15]

elmojo:

actually there is an EDID post today on the mythtv-users mailing list which mentions the EDID override

[01:10:57]

Tanthrix:

justinp_home: Why aren't you using DVI? No free port?

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waterfoul:

what does DVBSM(/dev/dvb/adapter0/frontend0), Warning: Can not measure S/N

[02:29:55]

waterfoul:

eno: Invalid argument (22)

[02:29:57]

waterfoul:

mean

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[R]:

what kind of card do you have?

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waterfoul:

1 sec

[02:34:46]

waterfoul:

http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hauppauge_WinTV-HVR-1800

[02:36:03]

waterfoul:

i just found some kernel errors during the scan so i will go to #dvb

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waterfoul:

or not

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waterfoul:

i get "kernel: s5h1409_readreg: readreg error (ret == -5)" and "kernel: s5h1409_writereg: error (reg == 0xf5, val == 0x0000, ret == -5)" with the reg and val #'s changing in /var/log/messages during the scan.....

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tgm4883:

I'm using MythTV 0.22 (mythweb 0.22.0+fixes23193). When trying to access the RSS feed on the recordings page, it takes me to the URL http://ares/mythweb/rss/mythweb/tv/recorded I think this is because that link is generated using <a href="rss'.$_SERVER['REQUEST_URI'].'">

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[R]:

waterfoul: yeah... that doesn't sound too good

[02:45:46]

waterfoul:

well, it's a problem with myth

[02:45:53]

[R]:

sounds like a problem with the driver

[02:46:02]

waterfoul:

I went and got wscan and it is finding all kinds of channels

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waterfoul:

oh wait nvm

[02:46:32]

waterfoul:

same errors in /var/log/messages

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[R]:

tgm4883: huh?

[02:46:56]

Dagmar:

Hence, it is a driver problem.

[02:47:21]

waterfoul:

yep

[02:47:30]

tgm4883:

[R], on the recorded page in mythweb, the rss link is incorrect. I think this is due to using $_SERVER['REQUEST_URI'] i recorded.php

[02:47:42]

[R]:

tgm4883: so file a bug report

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tgm4883:

ok I will. I just wanted to see if anyone else was experiencing this or if it was something particular to my setup

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tgm4883:

it's actually very similar to http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/7592

[02:49:34]

tgm4883:

which is for ical

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mrand:

tgm4883: I suppose you could try the patch attached to that bug?

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mrand:

(modified, of course)

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tgm4883:

mrand, yea i'm modifying it right now

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waterfoul:

well i rebooted and it magically started working

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[05:43:46]

Tanthrix:

Anyone have a Ubuntu mythbackend init script handy?

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superm1:

that depends on the release

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superm1:

karmic and later use upstart

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superm1:

in either case you can grab the one from packaging at code.launchpad.net/~mythbuntu/mythtv/mythtv-fixes

[05:46:43]

superm1:

you want debian/mythtv-backend.upstart for karmic+ and debian/mythtv-backend.init for jaunty and earlier

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Tanthrix:

Great, thanks.

[05:50:12]

Tanthrix:

superm1: Hrm, so where do I put it?

[05:50:20]

Tanthrix:

superm1: For karmic / upstart, that is.

[05:50:36]

superm1:

Tanthrix, /etc/init

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superm1:

Tanthrix, why not just use the packages though? it will get it right...

[05:51:51]

unixSnob:

Suppose an STB does not support teletext. Does the VBI still get passed on to the capture card, so that the teletext can be extracted?

[05:53:32]

Tanthrix:

superm1: I like to compile myth myself, and I've already got it setup that way

[05:53:48]

Tanthrix:

superm1: This doesn't seem to be working so well:

[05:53:48]

Tanthrix:

root@ragnarok:/# /etc/init.d/mythbackend start

[05:53:58]

superm1:

i didn't say init.d

[05:54:02]

superm1:

i said /etc/init

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Tanthrix:

Oh, heh.

[05:54:54]

superm1:

normally there are compatibility shims that get installed to make /etc/init.d/ stuff work too when a package installs an upstart job

[05:55:32]

superm1:

you might want to examine a mythtv-backend deb to see exactly what they are supposed to look like if you would want that on your system

[05:57:01]

Tanthrix:

So, got it it in the proper home now, but is there a special way to start it?

[05:58:31]

superm1:

start mythtv-backend

[05:58:37]

superm1:

status mythtv-backend

[05:58:40]

superm1:

stop mythtv-backend

[06:00:34]

Tanthrix:

How do I control what user it runs as?

[06:01:37]

Tanthrix:

Do I replace $USER with the user I want in the script, or is there a more clever way of achieving that?

[06:05:33]

superm1:

modify either that script or /etc/default/mythtv-backend

[06:05:38]

superm1:

but yeah, it's that USER variable

[06:05:48]

superm1:

by default it runs as the mythtv user

[06:06:03]

superm1:

there are some improvements coming to the way it works w/ 0.23 after some patches get accepted upstream

[06:07:06]

Tanthrix:

Now I'm starting to wonder if I ought to uninstall myth and just install the package...might make life easier in the future.

[06:07:50]

Tanthrix:

It's working great now though, thanks for the help.

[06:08:40]

superm1:

the packages are there mostly to make people's lives easier, not many evil purposes :)

[06:09:28]

superm1:

if you do decide to switch to the packages, given you compile yourself, you're probably accustomed to running recent -fixes builds, so those are provided at mythbuntu.org/auto-builds

[06:09:30]

Tanthrix:

Oh, I know, I've just always felt like I get some magical benefits from compiling "big" things myself ;)

[06:10:02]

Tanthrix:

Cool, thanks for the info.

[06:10:46]

Tanthrix:

I think what I'll do is get everything working perfectly, image the drive, then attempt to switch over to the packages. I need to do the same for the nvidia driver too, since I've already experienced my first need to reinstall after the ubuntu updates hosed that.

[06:12:30]

superm1:

the auto-builds repo has the 190 driver too

[06:14:53]

Tanthrix:

Nifty.

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[07:36:45]

oobe:

superm1, how can i find out what patches mythbuntu auto builds use's

[07:40:05]

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[07:42:07]

oobe:

nice work iamlindoro http://cvs.mythtv.org/trac/browser/trunk/myth . . . on/ChangeLog

[07:49:09]

Tanthrix:

Hrm, why did my PVR-150 magically change from /dev/video0 to /dev/video1

[07:49:28]

jduggan:

did you add another video device?

[07:49:53]

Tanthrix:

No, just rebooted.

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[07:50:53]

Tanthrix:

I seem to recall hearing about this issue a few years ago

[07:52:27]

jduggan:

well you can use udev to force the device name

[07:52:38]

jduggan:

its probably a udev issue

[07:52:49]

jduggan:

read this if you havent already; http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Device_Filenames_and_udev

[07:53:22]

Tanthrix:

Rebooted, went back to 0. Weird

[07:53:27]

Tanthrix:

I'll have a look in the morning, thanks.

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oobe:

tvdb is down again doh

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[09:53:48]

unixSnob:

what's the difference between "cable" service, and "terrestrial" service?

[09:56:00]

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[10:20:21]

TauPan:

Hm, I wonder if mythtv is able to view dvb-i (via german t-home)... I just gave a local m3u in the "freebox" entry, but scanning for channels fails with "IPTVChanFetch, Error: Invalid header in channel list line

[10:20:28]

TauPan:

EXTINF:0,Das Erste"

[10:20:37]

TauPan:

and mythtv-setup hangs

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FR^2:

unixSnob: I don't understand your question – if you're talking about digitial video, have a look at the wikipedia pages dvb-c, dvb-t etc. ;)

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stuartm:

unixSnob: at the most basic, different frequencies and transmission methods, different bandwith and multiplex size, assuming it uses DVB then there are large parts of the streams are compatible, if not identical with a digital Terrestrial broadcast

[10:40:10]

stuartm:

cable is more likely to be encrypted and because it's a closed system, cable broadcasters tend to deviate from the standard DVD specification, so they can cause problems for applications like MythTV

[10:40:19]

stuartm:

DVB

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[11:05:28]

TauPan:

ah http://www.mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-users/ . . . /192529.html

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[11:35:02]

dustybin:

i am so close to achieving something ace

[11:35:21]

dustybin:

i am using monit to try and send a message to mythtvosd when something happens

[11:35:27]

dustybin:

check directory test with path /root/test if failed permission 777 then "exec /usr/local/bin/mythtvosd --template=scroller --scroll_text=$EVENT"

[11:36:14]

dustybin:

i cannot get mythtvosd to display the $EVENT variable, mythtvosd just scrolls $EVENT as a word, what am i doing wrong?

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[11:38:13]

dustybin:

i would like mythvosd to display: $EVENT $SERVICE $ACTION but im unsure how to put it in a script

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[11:41:03]

FR^2:

TauPan: So t-home doesn't use drm?

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[11:42:29]

TauPan:

FR^2: it does, but there are some free programs, supported by the government

[11:42:49]

FR^2:

oh? Interesting to know.

[11:42:54]

TauPan:

and they don't use drm... everybody with a fast internet connection with rtp multicast can receive them for free

[11:43:07]

FR^2:

TauPan: I'm only using maxdome from time to time.... drm required

[11:43:26]

TauPan:

since you're german: http://www.ard-digital.de/Empfang--Technik/IP . . . are-Download

[11:43:47]

TauPan:

works nicely with vlc, but I'm just trying to get it to work with mythtv as well

[11:44:01]

TauPan:

(and it's much better than dvb-t in my area)

[11:44:54]

TauPan:

for some reason I get a channel list in mythtv, but the channel names are all blue and I can't "tune" to them

[11:46:10]

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[11:49:12]

FR^2:

[11:50:12]

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[11:52:27]

TauPan:

ah, the import from the m3u file has mutilated the channel setting

[11:58:05]

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[12:01:34]

TauPan:

ah, got it working

[12:01:56]

TauPan:

I tried a file:/// url for the m3u, apparently it's important that it's rtp, so I put it on a local webserver

[12:04:55]

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[12:08:19]

unixSnob:

FR^2 / stuartm: ah, so terrestrial is essentially what I would get over rabbit ears? That makes sense.

[12:08:54]

unixSnob:

mc2xml offers feeds for SAT, TERrestrial, and CABle.. I wasn't sure what I needed to specify

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[12:09:40]

stuartm:

via ground based transmitters + radio waves, whereas Cable is via underground/overground cables, and satellite via space based radio transmitters

[12:10:06]

FR^2:

unixSnob: Yes, and since the (sorry for my bad english) "spreading" of the signal is quite different in terrestrial transmission, dvb-t has those differences stuartm mentioned

[12:12:04]

TauPan:

FR^2: do you have T-Home (just the net connection, not the "Entertain" package)?

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[12:12:42]

FR^2:

No, I'm customer of the "blue wonder" ;)

[12:14:50]

TauPan:

eh?

[12:18:43]

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[12:19:33]

high-rez:

Been seeing this a lot lately: 2010-01–23 08:17:02.210 playCtx, Error: Attempting to setup a player, but it already exists.

[12:19:46]

high-rez:

When I go to watch tv, have to restart the frontend

[12:19:54]

FR^2:

TauPan: 1&1

[12:21:53]

TauPan:

ah

[12:23:06]

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[12:24:57]

TauPan:

now the remaining question is where I get epg data for the additional programs... *ponder*

[12:29:03]

Bartron:

hi people

[12:31:35]

Bartron:

i get compilation errors

[12:31:37]

Bartron:

NVCtrl.c:937: error: expected '{' at end of input

[12:32:23]

Bartron:

/usr/include/X11/extensions/extutil.h:137

[12:32:28]

Bartron:

all errors

[12:35:06]

Bartron:

NVCtrl is from Nvidia?

[12:46:21]

FR^2:

Bartron: Seems so: On my system, the file /usr/include/NVCtrl/NVCtrl.h is from nvidia-settings. (I don't have a file named NVCtrl.c...)

[12:47:53]

Bartron:

hm ok

[12:50:41]

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[12:51:15]

unixSnob:

After downloading a feed of *unmapped* channels, all of which have arbitrary channel numbers, how do you map them properly? is there a guide for this?

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[13:11:44]

Josh``:

unixSnob, usually if you download a channel list from SD, they are mapped according to the lineup you specified on SD

[13:12:16]

Josh``:

The only time in my experience I've had to deal with unmapped channels is after doing a channel scan.

[13:14:17]

unixSnob:

Josh``: there are 4 cable operators in my city, and most of the channels overlap. So it seems to make sense that there would only be one feed with everything

[13:14:34]

unixSnob:

the trouble is, the channel numbers are all wrong

[13:16:20]

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[13:16:48]

Josh``:

unixSnob, no, it seems to make sense that there would be at least 5 lineups available for your zip code on schedules direct. at least one for each cable operator plus one for broadcast. Make sure your schedulesdirect is set up properly.

[13:17:33]

Josh``:

For my zip code on SD, there are 19 different lineups, each following a different cable/sat provider plus broadcast.

[13:18:01]

unixSnob:

sounds like a lot of duplication

[13:18:31]

Josh``:

mabye for them. I just pick the one that matches what I've got on my wire.

[13:23:00]

dustybin:

if i execute this:

[13:23:04]

dustybin:

/usr/local/bin/mythtvosd --template=scroller --scroll_text="permission test failed for root test — current permission is 0500

[13:23:14]

dustybin:

the osd fades too fast

[13:23:23]

dustybin:

how can i slow the fade down, there are no settings in osd.xml

[13:23:47]

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[13:30:49]

jafa:

HDHomeRun firmware – if you are seeing a problem please let me know

[13:31:16]

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[13:34:29]

dustybin:

I FOUND IT!!!!!!!! UDP TIMEOUT :D

[13:34:42]

dustybin:

i have found something _seriously_ mega :D

[13:35:15]

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[13:39:22]

superm1:

oobe, that exact url i gave you

[13:39:28]

superm1:

oobe, debian/patches

[13:39:46]

superm1:

or that i gave to that other person i mean

[13:39:54]

oobe:

must of been a while ago

[13:39:56]

oobe:

oh ok

[13:40:19]

oobe:

where do i find debian/patches

[13:40:42]

oobe:

i have an old trunk bzr archive

[13:40:55]

oobe:

but i dont use debian based distro anymore

[13:41:03]

oobe:

so im not sure how to access it

[13:41:23]

oobe:

i would mind scrolling through the patches though incase there is somthing cool i can use

[13:41:58]

superm1:

oobe, http://mythbuntu.org/cheatsheet

[13:42:29]

unixSnob:

does mythweb give access to any config options not available in the frontend or backend setups?

[13:42:32]

superm1:

so if you go there, you can fetch the source and patches for anything myth based used in ubuntu

[13:43:09]

oobe:

nice thanks

[13:46:17]

oobe:

unixSnob, not that im aware of unless you count mythweb configurations themselves

[13:46:38]

oobe:

IMHO alot of configurations are more easily accessable in mythweb though

[13:46:53]

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[13:48:52]

dustybin:

IT WORKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[13:49:06]

dustybin:

monit + mythtvosd kicks ass

[13:49:11]

dustybin:

just add this line

[13:49:12]

dustybin:

/usr/local/bin/mythtvosd --template=scroller --scroll_text="Host: $MONIT_HOST Service: $MONIT_SERVICE Description: $MONIT_DESCRIPTION"

[13:49:43]

dustybin:

you can monitor any service, if there is a problem, a nice scrolly message appears on mythtv

[13:50:27]

dustybin:

GreyFoxx: check that out ^^

[13:51:39]

oobe:

dustybin, what did you just do

[13:51:46]

oobe:

sounds exciting

[13:52:40]

oobe:

like what service do you want to monitor

[13:52:54]

dustybin:

oobe: im using a application called monit, it can monit services runnning on your box

[13:53:14]

oobe:

is there a example of a useful application

[13:53:14]

dustybin:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Status_Monitoring_How_To

[13:53:20]

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[13:53:59]

dustybin:

oobe: you can monitor the backend, your recordings directory, any service like postfix, apache. mysql etc

[13:54:30]

oobe:

oh when somthing crashes you can now display it using mythosd

[13:54:33]

oobe:

that is handy

[13:54:58]

dustybin:

oobe: there are lots of rules, if a service stops, if a dir is getting too full, if cpu is too high, etc

[13:55:22]

oobe:

do you want your viewing interupted for all events though

[13:55:34]

oobe:

i spose you would configure for critical only

[13:56:30]

dustybin:

oobe: a scrolly message isnt interupting anything

[13:56:41]

Josh``:

I can't get good recordings our of my HDHomerun – they keep erroring and livetv playback always eventually fails with "irrecoverable recorder error" and "frame buffering failed too many times"

[13:56:47]

oobe:

it just scrolls at the bottom of the screen ?

[13:56:51]

dustybin:

yes

[13:56:52]

oobe:

ok then sounds cool

[13:56:58]

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[14:06:05]

tgm4883:

Is it expected that mythweb will always be accessible from http://backend/mythweb or are there going to be installs with it just at http://backend/ that need to be accounted for

[14:06:16]

tgm4883:

When writing patches I mean

[14:07:15]

stuartm:

tgm4883: could be anywhere, at any address

[14:07:48]

stuartm:

some people put it on a dedicated webserver with it's own domain!

[14:08:14]

stuartm:

personally I don't bother with /mythweb, it's at /

[14:08:17]

tgm4883:

stuartm, hmm, hadn't thought about that, thanks

[14:08:26]

tgm4883:

stuartm, I think that is the main point here

[14:08:29]

tgm4883:

just the /

[14:08:35]

tgm4883:

vs /mythweb

[14:08:44]

tgm4883:

and if this patch that was written will work with that

[14:09:10]

tgm4883:

I don't suppose you have a second to look at it

[14:09:14]

tgm4883:

it's a single line change

[14:09:36]

tgm4883:

http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/7948

[14:10:56]

stuartm:

mythweb isn't really my domain, I wouldn't know if the fix was correct, kormoc or xris would

[14:11:27]

tgm4883:

ok, thanks

[14:11:59]

tgm4883:

if it does end up working out, a similar fix could be used for http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/7592

[14:13:48]

oobe:

i didnt even know mythweb had rss

[14:16:05]

tgm4883:

oobe, yep for recorded stuff

[14:16:15]

oobe:

nice

[14:16:20]

tgm4883:

it also has ical for upcoming recordings, but has the same issue

[14:16:42]

oobe:

i guess this must be what you made the patch for

[14:16:43]

oobe:

at /usr/share/mythtv/mythweb/modules/_shared/tmpl/_errors/unknown_module.php, line 23:

[14:16:44]

oobe:

require(modules/_shared/tmpl/rss/header.php)

[14:17:18]

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[14:17:49]

tgm4883:

oobe, yea, if you look at the URL you are at, you should have two mythwebs in there, remove the second one

[14:18:25]

tgm4883:

and foxbuntu made the patch, not me

[14:18:29]

tgm4883:

I just hunted it down

[14:18:46]

oobe:

oh ok

[14:20:06]

oobe:

thats actually kinda handy

[14:28:00]

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[14:32:08]

dustybin:

oobe: this is a monit rule:

[14:32:10]

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[14:32:27]

dustybin:

check device mythtv with path /dev/sda1 if space usage > 90% then exec "/etc/monit/alert" if space usage > 90% then alert

[14:36:25]

Dagmar:

foxbuntu?

[14:36:31]

oobe:

nice

[14:36:47]

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[14:37:00]

oobe:

dustybin, you should make a wiki page on mythtvosd

[14:37:36]

stuartm:

Dagmar: the Firefox and Ubuntu answer to Google's Chrome OS?

[14:38:47]

oobe:

im hoping chrome OS create hundreds of thousands more linux users

[14:38:51]

Dagmar:

Looks like it's the name of a user

[14:39:04]

oobe:

like heaps of ppl that dont even know chrome OS is linux

[14:39:05]

Dagmar:

...and that patch doesn't do what it's supposed to, or at least I don't see how it could possibly be doing it

[14:39:42]

Dagmar:

Lemme make sure I have the arguments to str_replace correct

[14:39:57]

tgm4883:

Dagmar, yea a user in another channel

[14:40:08]

Dagmar:

Yeah it can't be doing that

[14:40:10]

tgm4883:

Dagmar, seems to work here on systems with a /mythweb dir

[14:40:27]

Dagmar:

Something else is happening as a side-effect then

[14:40:41]

** tgm4883 doesn't know PHP **

[14:40:42]

Dagmar:

You *do* see that it only replaces "tv" with "rss/tv", right?

[14:40:45]

oobe:

hmm i havent thought about google OS in a while i didnt know this http://blogs.todayonline.com/techtalk/2010/01 . . . ly%E2%80%A6/

[14:40:54]

tgm4883:

thats what I thought it did

[14:41:08]

tgm4883:

but then it worked so I was like WTF

[14:41:17]

Dagmar:

tgm4883: Yeah so it can't be fixing the problem mentioned by the bug report

[14:41:45]

Dagmar:

oobe: Yes, written by the usual RMS wannabe

[14:42:01]

tgm4883:

odd side effect then

[14:43:35]

Dagmar:

For example: "If that.s already the case, I don.t see why users have to fork out extra money to buy a new Chrome OS-optimised netbook just to get a few seconds shaved off for the boot-up time. Unless, of course, like TechCrunch.s Michael Arrington reported, Google decides to release its own .Google Netbook.."

[14:43:39]

Dagmar:

That's just jackassery

[14:44:01]

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[14:44:22]

Dagmar:

Translation: "I want feature x my hardware didn't ship with, and I think since those people get it with their hardware, I should get it free"

[14:44:33]

tgm4883:

hmm, on a side note, it appears that the rss does like & in titles either

[14:45:17]

Dagmar:

str_replace('&','&'... in there somewhere, but more importantly I *know* there's a PHP function to sanitized text of entities

[14:45:46]

[R]:

htmlentities

[14:45:52]

[R]:

i think tahts the name of the function

[14:46:08]

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[14:46:59]

Dibblah:

I really don't understand this insistence that boot time is _remotely_ important.

[14:47:21]

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[14:47:21]

Dibblah:

If suspend works, force people to use that. If it doesn't, then bloody well fix suspend.

[14:47:41]

Dagmar:

It's part and parcel of the same form of insanity that makes someone think they're entitled to free everything when someone's giving something away to _some_ people

[14:47:51]

stuartm:

or just don't reboot

[14:48:01]

Dagmar:

...an the same form of insanity that makes about 40% of early-adopters always be illiterate noobs.

[14:48:48]

Dagmar:

I suspect the last thing Google needs is about a jillion retards filing screwball bug reports on how Chrome won't run on their ancient Wombatronic 6800 laptop

[14:49:36]

Dagmar:

Like, take the number of spurious bug reports Myth gets from people trying to run it on thoroughly incorrect hardware, and multiply it by the population of the internet

[14:50:17]

stuartm:

oobe: it's linux in the sense that a TV or STB is linux, it's a locked down environment that no linux user would recognise

[14:50:30]

Dagmar:

Maybe you don't want to just burn out all your developers with four million bug reports on every platform imagingable when you're still trying to smack the bugs out of just the "known hardware" set

[14:51:18]

Dagmar:

oobe: I've been at this for like 20 years now, and I'm pretty sure that when I get around to it I'll be calling it "hard to deal with"

[14:51:23]

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[14:52:13]

Dagmar:

I can *build* a tin, turnkey environment for a given set of slightly rinky-dinky hardware just fine, but unraveling one someone else made in order to modify it is generally another step above that

[14:52:17]

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[14:52:21]

Dagmar:

s/tin/tiny/;

[14:52:48]

unixSnob:

chrome is still a piece of garbage.. not ready for prime time

[14:53:00]

Dagmar:

You say this based on what hands-on experience?

[14:53:01]

unixSnob:

it's half baked.. i'm not surprized if there's a lot of bug reports

[14:53:19]

unixSnob:

running it on an amd64 kernel

[14:53:37]

Dibblah:

Dagmar: You didn't get anything from Sparkfun free day either, huh? :)

[14:53:43]

Dagmar:

SO you used your own kernel and not theirs?

[14:53:52]

Dagmar:

Dibblah: Dude I have a job and money. I don't need to worry about free day

[14:54:06]

Dagmar:

I kinda hold most of the people who probably swarmed the site that day in great contempt

[14:54:16]

unixSnob:

internally, chrome runs windows crap, and i didn't stop it, if that's the question

[14:54:24]

Dagmar:

I'm sure there were a lot of people who legitimately could stand to save some money

[14:54:30]

Dagmar:

I'm also sure that they were probably the minority.

[14:54:33]

Dibblah:

I swarmed to the site that day.

[14:54:57]

Dibblah:

... I submitted a $240 order that day. After free day finished, admittedly, but...

[14:54:57]

Dagmar:

I'm reasonably sure if you check eBay you'll find all sorts of small lots of stuff from SparkFun up there now

[14:55:13]

Dagmar:

Those are the people I hold in contempt

[14:55:42]

oobe:

swarmed the site when?

[14:55:52]

oobe:

was there a big promotion or somthing?

[14:55:59]

Dagmar:

oobe: SparkFun had a "free day" where up to $100 worth of stuff would be free

[14:56:07]

Dibblah:

oobe: Sparkfun gave away $100,000

[14:56:08]

Dagmar:

They put an upper limit of $100,000 dollars total on it.

[14:56:15]

Dagmar:

I'm pretty sure that was gone in maybe two hours

[14:56:45]

oobe:

ok

[14:56:53]

oobe:

me google SparkFun now

[14:57:00]

unixSnob:

Dagmar: are you saying chrome is not intended to run on an amd64 linux kernel?

[14:57:10]

Dagmar:

I was seeing mention of the thing showing up in too many places it probably shouldn't have...like sites eBay bandits hang out on

[14:57:31]

Dagmar:

unixSnob: I'm saying that at the moment they have been aiming for a VERY MINIMAL number of configurations

[14:58:07]

Dagmar:

This leading to design decisions that would pretty much ignore anything that wasn't those specific configurations, until they've reached a particular state of fitness on those configurations

[14:58:38]

Dagmar:

Just like I wouldn't have expected OSX to run for crap on any old PC from the first day they had a release that would handle an "x86" CPU

[14:59:06]

unixSnob:

Dagmar: in that case, certainly there's a problem with the install routine then... it probably should have rejected my amd64 kernel, if it's not supposed to run on it

[14:59:19]

unixSnob:

it even went to the trouble of adding gnome menu icons

[14:59:36]

Dagmar:

unixSnob: Another viewpoint would be that there's no need to check every little thing if it's being installed on only the chosen target hardware right now

[14:59:52]

unixSnob:

Dagmar: a kernel is not esoteric

[15:00:02]

Dagmar:

Like, for example, originally Dropline GNOME didn't check that it was being installed on specific versions of Slackware

[15:00:06]

unixSnob:

Dagmar: a kernel would be a good thing to check, at a minimum

[15:00:45]

Dagmar:

At least, until idiots started installing it on three year old versions of Vector, screwed up Gentoo machines, and god knows what other bizarre stuff and then reporting "IT R NOT WORKIN Y U FIX THIS NAO!"

[15:01:00]

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[15:01:24]

Dagmar:

unixsnob: The expectation is that you'll have the sense to not install it on things it wasn't designed to handle yet

[15:02:04]

unixSnob:

Dagmar: users expect major dependancies like kernels to be part of the checks

[15:02:07]

unixSnob:

and rightly so

[15:02:13]

Dagmar:

users are morons.

[15:02:20]

Dagmar:

And there is no sane reason to expect a kernel check

[15:02:38]

unixSnob:

it's absolutely incompetent to not include a check for a kernel

[15:02:52]

unixSnob:

the user should not have to be smarter than the developer

[15:03:10]

Dibblah:

If it's running, there's a kernel under it.

[15:03:24]

Dagmar:

Okay, I take that back. You're clueless.

[15:03:26]

Dibblah:

So why on earth check?

[15:03:34]

superm1:

kernel <-> userspace interfaces change over time

[15:04:11]

unixSnob:

Dibblah: according to Dagmar, chrome is not supposed to work on amd64 kernels (yet it will install on one)

[15:04:22]

** GreyFoxx cries as xfs_repair segfaults repairing a filesystem **

[15:04:27]

Dibblah:

May have additional bugs on.

[15:04:34]

Dibblah:

GreyFoxx: You ran out of RAM. Ha ha!

[15:04:55]

unixSnob:

Dibblah: and it will try to run on an amd64 kernel, but performance is crap.. it's buggy

[15:05:20]

Dibblah:

unixSnob: Buggy? Pre-alpha software? Never!

[15:05:28]

Dagmar:

You can probably install Yellow Dog packages on a 64-bit AMD, but that doesn't mean they're broken because they won't work there. It just means the person installing them is an ignorant jerk.

[15:05:53]

Dagmar:

Expecting it to work on "just anything" before even a single 1.0 release happens is also thick-headed.

[15:05:54]

GreyFoxx:

I've tried 4 versions of xfsprogs, all segault, just in different spots. 2.8.4 makes it to phase 5 before dying with an error about an invalid pointer, and 3.x.x die in phase 2 reading the ag free list :/

[15:06:10]

Dibblah:

GreyFoxx: Size of volume?

[15:06:17]

unixSnob:

Dibblah: like i said, it's half baked. Dagmar is saying it's ready for the masses

[15:06:18]

GreyFoxx:

just under 3TV

[15:06:21]

GreyFoxx:

err TB

[15:06:28]

Dagmar:

An an illiterate one at that.

[15:06:35]

Dibblah:

GreyFoxx: Got 4Gb or so of RAM?

[15:06:39]

Dibblah:

Check dmesg

[15:06:42]

GreyFoxx:

dibbz: Nope

[15:06:45]

Dagmar:

If you think I was somehow saying "it's ready for the masses" you're either illiterate, or about to go into my ignore list

[15:06:51]

Dagmar:

Actually, screw it. Into the list you go.

[15:07:07]

GreyFoxx:

dibbz: Just the standard xfs_repair[21976]: segfault at 2ec36100 ip 0807aba0 sp bf94f5f0 error 4 in xfs_repair[8048000+82000] type errors

[15:07:12]

GreyFoxx:

nothing mentions ram

[15:07:19]

unixSnob:

Dagmar: of course you were. I said it was half baked, and you objected, saying the kernel is not supported

[15:07:28]

unixSnob:

either it's half baked, or it's not

[15:07:33]

GreyFoxx:

and in the 3.x I told it to limit itself to 425M (only 1 gig on this box) but it still dyes

[15:07:41]

GreyFoxx:

do you think it's likely lack of ram ?

[15:08:08]

Dibblah:

GreyFoxx: Nice! xfs_repair used to take about 4Gb of RAM on a 1.3Tb volume.

[15:08:22]

Dibblah:

So it sounds like they've fixed that bug.

[15:08:32]

GreyFoxx:

dibbz: there is a -m paremter in the 3.x series to limit ram usage

[15:08:43]

unixSnob:

for the mere sake of soliciting meaningful bug reports, chrome should not allow itself to install on an unsupported kernel w/out so much as a warning.. it's just asking for problems

[15:09:17]

GreyFoxx:

I'm also updating the kernel on the box and going to attempt again

[15:09:37]

GreyFoxx:

and if it comes down to it I'll move the drives into my desktop and try there (more ram, different distro and so on)

[15:10:42]

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[15:10:59]

GreyFoxx:

If it comes down to it I'll run into work and borrow some ram until monday :)

[15:17:44]

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[15:20:50]

clever:

GreyFoxx: nice, i should need that -m

[15:21:25]

clever:

ive got 1.5tb XFS filesystems on a box with only ~256mb ram

[15:22:02]

GreyFoxx:

It's funny, the very that seems to get much further along is the one I can't limit the ram usage on :)

[15:26:52]

GreyFoxx:

yeah, 3.x segfaults scanning the ag freelist, 2.8.x dies freeing the list later :)

[15:31:59]

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[15:39:46]

Dagmar:

Hmm.. The icons. Where do they come from? (no one say "the stork brings them" please)

[15:42:09]

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[15:47:01]

clever:

Dagmar: when a momy icon and a dady icon love eachother very much .....

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[15:55:07]

Dagmar:

clever: I say this because I think I need to prod the icon scanner a bit

[15:55:21]

clever:

ah

[15:55:27]

clever:

its somewhere in mythtv-setup i think

[15:55:32]

Dagmar:

No, really?

[15:56:26]

Dagmar:

Try and get it to give you the icon for Black Entertainment Television sometime

[15:56:51]

Dagmar:

Or, for a giggle, open it up on a 16:9 screen

[15:59:28]

FR^2:

Strange. If I scan my dvb-c adapter using dvbscan and use kaffeine or me-tv, I can watch TV without much glitches (i.e. without many stream errors). But when scanning in mythtv-setup, afterwards using mythbackend+mythfrontend, the number of stream errors is that high that I can't really watch using mythtv... Any hints?

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[16:55:36]

foxbuntu:

Dagmar, that patch I submited for the rss link in mythweb works because $_SERVER['REQUEST_URI'] returns the full path to the current page i.e. http/example.org/some/path/inc would return some/path/inc so reguardless of where mythweb is installed /root_path/rss/tv/recorded is always correct

[16:59:13]

Dagmar:

You're talkinbg about the patch attached to this ticket? http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/7948

[17:00:06]

Dagmar:

Oh wait, now that I've had more caffiene in me I see I misread it

[17:00:16]

Dagmar:

Damn I hate php

[17:01:26]

Dagmar:

I'm quite aware of what REQUEST_URI contains

[17:05:21]

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[17:32:07]

[R]:

anyone here know about IR? i'm looking at the output of an IR receiver on an oscope and i see what looks like TWO pulses... does that seem normal?

[17:32:23]

[R]:

by pulses i mean a set of on/off 1/0 sets

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[17:37:31]

Dagmar:

You need to look at the manual for your scope, man

[17:37:35]

Dagmar:

You should only see one trace

[17:37:46]

Dagmar:

Spin some knobs or something

[17:38:21]

awalls:

[R]: yes that's normal

[17:38:40]

awalls:

especially for RC-5

[17:39:14]

[R]:

well it looks like the scitentific atlanta codes do that

[17:39:18]

[R]:

but the one for my usb reciever doesn't

[17:39:20]

[R]:

so okay

[17:39:30]

Gumby:

my cable has ~60–70 channels (analog cable) and mythtv when scanning sits at 5% for ages without moving. Is this a common thing? I have just compiled the current 0.22 from svn

[17:39:56]

Dagmar:

Yes. Analog scanning doesn't work properly, and would be the slowest way to do it anyway.

[17:39:58]

awalls:

NEC protocol remotes have a specific repeat sequence that is much shorter, but still a different pulse set

[17:40:28]

Gumby:

Dagmar: so just download from SD then

[17:40:45]

Dagmar:

Just have it fetch the channels your cable company ships you from SchedulesDirect, yes

[17:40:57]

Dagmar:

It's faster and more reliable

[17:40:59]

[R]:

i really wish i had a real oscope

[17:41:15]

Dagmar:

[r]: I'd like to change my answer then

[17:41:32]

Dagmar:

...to "peel the lower half of the sticker off the "screen" on your osillyscope.

[17:41:40]

[R]:

Dagmar: lol

[17:41:47]

[R]:

Dagmar: i probably described it wrong... but awalls understood what i meant

[17:42:03]

Dagmar:

Okay. I thought you had hte thing in some kind of dual-trace mode at first

[17:42:20]

[R]:

no like i see on/off pulses and then a ms later or so, i see another set of on/off pulses

[17:42:37]

[R]:

actually its 100ms

[17:42:41]

awalls:

Hmmm. 1 ms is short

[17:42:48]

awalls:

Ah ok, that's better

[17:42:53]

Dagmar:

Yeah RC5 and several other protocols work more like the AT keyboard protocol than they do the morse code bullshit people are expecting

[17:42:58]

awalls:

RC-5 is about 114 ms IIRC

[17:43:11]

[R]:

i'm trying to write an ir decoder

[17:43:18]

awalls:

What protocol

[17:43:35]

[R]:

no clue

[17:43:36]

[R]:

:)

[17:43:47]

[R]:

i really just want to detect only 1 certain button

[17:43:47]

foxbuntu:

Dagmar, yes thats the patch, I also did a similar patc today here: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/7592

[17:43:56]

awalls:

[R]: if you have an HVR-1850 or some other CX23888 based video card...

[17:44:01]

foxbuntu:

s/patc/patch

[17:44:15]

awalls:

then the debug from the cx23885 driver can be used to show you the pulse measurements,

[17:44:33]

[R]:

no, none of those

[17:44:46]

awalls:

provided the protocol is close enough to the existing settings.

[17:44:49]

[R]:

i have it on the oscope... i just need to measure it

[17:45:00]

awalls:

Ok.

[17:45:22]

[R]:

i lied

[17:45:23]

[R]:

its 38ms

[17:45:31]

awalls:

RC-5 baseband pulse width is around 888 usec or so IIRC

[17:45:43]

Dagmar:

HOLY LEANING TOOTHPICKS, BATMAN

[17:46:18]

awalls:

Dagmar: don't shake the table!

[17:46:21]

foxbuntu:

Dagmar, ?

[17:46:39]

Dagmar:

preg_replace('/([\[\\\^\.\$\|\[\]\*\+\?\{\}\,\/\-])/', '\\\$1', root)

[17:46:39]

Dagmar:

Sweet jesus

[17:46:51]

Dagmar:

That right there is why people hate regexps

[17:47:08]

foxbuntu:

Dagmar, no no, look at the second patch, I did a not crazy version

[17:47:27]

foxbuntu:

Dagmar, but +1 on the regexp part

[17:47:43]

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[17:47:46]

Dagmar:

Oh thank god

[17:48:08]

Dagmar:

I was just opening up some PHP docs going "There's GOT to be a function for this already written, as soon as I figure out WTF it's doin"

[17:48:56]

foxbuntu:

Dagmar, yeah, its a little confusing looking at it at first

[17:49:23]

Dagmar:

A little. lol

[17:49:46]

Josh``:

I heard once that an analog TV antenna will function just as well as a "digital tv" antenna. Is there any truth to this?

[17:49:51]

Dagmar:

I'm going to assume that this is a case where a little syntax highlighting goes a long way

[17:50:10]

Dagmar:

Josh: It'll work as well as the average coat hanger

[17:50:16]

foxbuntu:

Dagmar, yes, it makes a little more sense with the syntax highlighter

[17:50:25]

awalls:

Too bad, [R] missed me saying that the Sharp protocol sends a normal and then inverted pulse set about 40 ms apart

[17:50:41]

Dagmar:

There are people who actually _need_ roof-top aerials for decent analog signal tho. Those people will _need_ just as special an antenna for ATSC

[17:51:14]

foxbuntu:

Josh``, if you live within ~20KM of the broadcast signal it really wont matter, but if not you need the ATSC powered antenna

[17:51:39]

Josh``:

Dagmar, I'm talking about how all these retail stores are touting "HDTV antennas"

[17:51:42]

Dagmar:

If you were fine with some sketchy looking "rabbit ears" before, you'll probably still be fine

[17:51:58]

awalls:

UHF and VHF propagation and wave energy capture in a frequency band are the same no matter what information you modulate on the waves

[17:51:59]

Dagmar:

Josh: Yes, they tout them because it makes them sound fancy and complicated.

[17:52:02]

Josh``:

Assuming they're not amplified, are they really any different than rabbit ears?

[17:52:02]

Dagmar:

THey're not.

[17:52:36]

Dagmar:

Being that most "rabbit ears" are literally two wires stuck into two telescoping metal rods with nothing else going on inside?

[17:52:45]

Josh``:

awesome. *goes digging for some rabbit ears"

[17:52:54]

Dagmar:

Some will have a choke on them.

[17:53:19]

awalls:

As one of the poor slobs on the fringe, I recommend a good directional antenna and a Winegard pre-amplifier

[17:53:26]

foxbuntu:

Josh``, your wire coat hanger, some tin foil, and batman is all you need

[17:53:31]

Dagmar:

I may be screwing up the verbiage here but passive signal amplification is mainly about two things, the first of which is all most cheap-ass rabbit ears care about

[17:53:40]

Dagmar:

The first being "listening harder to everything"

[17:54:13]

Josh``:

AKA greater SNR ratio

[17:54:14]

awalls:

Passive amplification?

[17:54:22]

Dagmar:

The second is about "ignoring that which we don't want to hear" which by side-effect makes the things we do want to hear easier to listen to

[17:54:34]

Dagmar:

No, the first part is just "greater signal"

[17:54:37]

awalls:

Oh directivity gain.

[17:54:50]

Dagmar:

You know the tech jargon better than I do

[17:54:54]

Dagmar:

I just know how to build them mostly

[17:55:17]

Dagmar:

...and this I learned from pirates in back alleys and empty warehouses

[17:55:26]

Josh``:

I'm just trying to rule out shoddy QAM signal coming from my cableco.

[17:55:39]

Dagmar:

You know, the streets, where all good information comes from.

[17:55:39]

Dagmar:

;)

[17:55:41]

awalls:

A preamp close to the antenna helps minimize the overall receiver system noise figure

[17:55:56]

Dagmar:

Josh: dude you're not getting QAM over an antenna

[17:56:07]

Josh``:

Dagmar, I know. That's why I said cableco.

[17:56:13]

Dagmar:

awalls: Tta would be thing three which is pretty much never ever present in cheap-ass rabbit ears

[17:56:44]

Dagmar:

I've never seen a set of rabbit ears that looked painfully cheap that had an active amp in there

[17:57:08]

awalls:

Cheap ass rabbit ears near a modern TV will pick up a lot of noise.

[17:57:20]

Dagmar:

...but you can make the antenna listen harder and choke out the frequencies you don't want for the cost of some wire and careful measurements

[17:57:21]

awalls:

SNR goes into the toilet

[17:57:23]

Josh``:

All I get over my cable line is OTA 'must carrys', so I'm gonna unplug my HDHR, stick it outside with some wire poking out of the F jack and see what I can pick up.

[17:57:55]

Dagmar:

Josh: That will probably be "nothing" unless it happens to know how to handle ATSC as well

[17:59:11]

Dagmar:

josh: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWQhlmJTMzw

[17:59:48]

Dagmar:

Yes, all that strange-ass back-and-forth is about trying to get the wires to only resonate with certain frequencies

[17:59:53]

Josh``:

Dagmar, ATSC(8-VSB) / ClearQAM (QAM64/256)

[18:00:04]

Josh``:

Hdhomerun – http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815327005

[18:00:11]

Dagmar:

So watch that video and shred up some old coat-hangers

[18:00:16]

Josh``:

awesome, i'll check it out

[18:00:27]

awalls:

Josh: I will be amazed if cheap ass rabbit ears give you anything. Do you know which broadcasters send digitial over VHF in your area?

[18:00:41]

awalls:

OR do the rabbit ears have the silly little bow-tie too?

[18:00:45]

Josh``:

awalls, all of them?

[18:00:46]

awalls:

/OR/or/

[18:00:57]

awalls:

Likely not.

[18:01:18]

awalls:

dinnertime. bye

[18:01:21]

Dagmar:

Bonus points if you embed your antenna in the back of a Radiohead poster

[18:01:25]

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[18:01:35]

Josh``:

awalls, Correct, likely not. But enough to get me some useful data without buying an antenna.

[18:02:03]

Dagmar:

Putting them inside a poster used to be standard for me

[18:02:18]

Dagmar:

Wires hanging directly on a wall look ugly

[18:04:37]

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[18:05:49]

Josh``:

Dagmar, VERY helpful link, thanks a bunch

[18:05:52]

Josh``:

*heads to radio shack*

[18:06:33]

Dagmar:

ll

[18:06:42]

Dagmar:

If you're heading to radio shack just buy an antenna

[18:07:05]

Dagmar:

...or at least look at what they've got in the way of passive antennas

[18:07:37]

Dagmar:

It might not be worth your time to drive over there and spend money on parts, and time putting them together

[18:07:54]

Dagmar:

Whenever you're that short on money it's lifes way of saying "Take a second job"

[18:08:56]

foxbuntu:

Dagmar, or that you should stop buying crap you can do without

[18:09:28]

Dagmar:

Am I correct in my presumption that http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MythUI_Theme_Development is actually up to date?

[18:09:36]

Dagmar:

foxbuntu: That too

[18:09:51]

Dagmar:

I see iamlindoro all over the changelog for it, which is why I think it might actually be in sync with 0.22

[18:10:09]

foxbuntu:

Dagmar, it is up to date

[18:10:55]

stuartm:

Dagmar: possibly incomplete in parts but up to date

[18:11:52]

Josh``:

Dagmar, it's not so much I'm short on money (which I am) – Its moreso I don't want to spend money on something I may only be using once.

[18:13:27]

Dagmar:

Oh holy crap

[18:13:36]

Dagmar:

We can aim for a target resolution of 1920x1080 now?

[18:13:41]

** Dagmar horrahs **

[18:15:56]

Dagmar:

One of the things that bugged me before was that on a higher-res display I was looking at having all my nice carefully-constructed PNGs get blurred up

[18:16:02]

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[18:18:23]

GreyFoxx:

And that 89G appears to be "corrupt" so it looks like he'll have to start rebuilding this from scratch :)

[18:18:26]

GreyFoxx:

oops

[18:18:33]

peterpan13_ptl:

Hi everyone. I had analog working fine on my hvr-1600 until this afternoon. Now, for analog channels, all I'm getting is solid red screen with no audio. The tv in the other room receives the analog channels fine.

[18:19:54]

peterpan13_ptl:

Could I have screwed up a setting on the backend

[18:20:23]

Dagmar:

If you've recently been mucking about with them, sure.

[18:20:23]

Dagmar:

If not, check your syslog

[18:21:01]

Dagmar:

If you, like I think you did, recently upgraded your kernel, that's what broke it. Check your syslog.

[18:22:03]

peterpan13_ptl:

well, I installed mytharchive.... I'll take a look at the syslog

[18:22:16]

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[18:22:32]

Dagmar:

It would be next to impossible for that to break it.

[18:22:40]

peterpan13_ptl:

yeah, I didn't think so

[18:22:43]

cesman:

anyone in the channel have service (fios, cable, dish, etc.) with both an HD and SD box?

[18:23:17]

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[18:23:22]

awalls:

peterpan13_ptl: A user reported red-screen on the ivtv-users list

[18:23:36]

Dagmar:

Ah this reminds me of something I need to finish up and fix

[18:23:38]

awalls:

corrective action was to power off for some period of time

[18:23:42]

Dagmar:

I did a whole page just on this vmalloc crap

[18:24:08]

** GreyFoxx wonders if there is a standalone app/script for generating the same hashs as mythvideo uses **

[18:24:25]

Dagmar:

It uses hashes?

[18:24:40]

awalls:

I have a guess at what is failing, just not why or how or what to do about it (not enough data)

[18:25:38]

Dagmar:

It pisses me off that http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Hauppauge_HVR-1600 makes it sound like this is a problem caused by the nvidia driver being "restricted".

[18:26:08]

awalls:

No, it's a system level issue and linux user unfriendliness

[18:26:42]

awalls:

Don't know why the vmalloc limit is so small on 32 bit by default

[18:26:55]

awalls:

or why the kernel can't be adaptive

[18:27:31]

Dagmar:

I know why.

[18:27:34]

Dagmar:

You probably don't want to know.

[18:27:36]

awalls:

I wouldn't blame nvidia at all

[18:27:43]

Dagmar:

It's not really useful information to most people.

[18:27:55]

Dagmar:

it's not a matter of it being "so small"

[18:28:06]

awalls:

If it's OT then don't bother. :)

[18:28:13]

Dagmar:

It's a matter of it not being needlessly large, and these particular drivers both need a sizeable chunk

[18:28:30]

awalls:

OF not real memory, but just addres space

[18:28:35]

awalls:

/OF/Of/

[18:28:40]

Dagmar:

You blow a minimum of 64M of that space for each tuner initialized mainly

[18:28:48]

awalls:

Yup.

[18:29:03]

Dagmar:

So if you have like a PVR-500, there goes 128Mb of it, and the nVidia card takes another 64Mb block

[18:29:16]

awalls:

I was looking at a lot of code to try and split it up into two 32 MB or smaller ioremap() windows

[18:29:24]

Dagmar:

Bam, you're already over what was preallocated if you tried to be a cheap-ass and use only 512Mb of RAM or something

[18:29:44]

awalls:

IO windows are not system RAM

[18:30:13]

Dagmar:

yes but the space is set up based on how much RAM you have

[18:30:21]

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[18:30:26]

awalls:

Not on x86_64

[18:30:55]

Dagmar:

It should *not* be really plaguing people anymore because IIRC things were recently rediddled so that the smallest amount that would be set up for by default is what used to get provided for if you had 1G of RAM

[18:31:43]

awalls:

grep Vmalloc /proc/meminfo on x86_64 yields: VmallocTotal: 34359738367 kB

[18:32:01]

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[18:32:10]

Dagmar:

yes, the default setting on x86_64 is handled entirely differently

[18:32:19]

Dagmar:

Pardon if I seem both vague and specific at hte same time

[18:32:27]

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[18:32:29]

awalls:

:)

[18:32:39]

awalls:

np.

[18:32:52]

Dagmar:

I wrote http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Common_Problem:_vmalloc_too_small over a month ago, while wading through just pages and pages of LKML mails

[18:33:13]

Dagmar:

That page probably has more detail in it than I remember myself

[18:33:22]

awalls:

YOu may have found the HVR-1600 answer sooner on the LMML

[18:33:26]

** awalls looks **

[18:33:47]

Dagmar:

...which is more detail than most people need, but I got irked about it because I kept seeing the same problem blamed on a _wide array_ of things

[18:34:20]

Dagmar:

...when _all_ of them boiled down to the user ignoring the kernel very plainly saying "I've not enough of this chunk of reserved address space to load that driver. Deal with it, chumpy."

[18:34:29]

awalls:

Wow, I've got to fix the stupid cx18 message.

[18:36:42]

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[18:37:37]

awalls:

Yeah, the "deal with it chumpy" needs to be more adaptive/forgiving

[18:38:02]

Dagmar:

The HVR-1600 page on the wiki is the reason I wrote that page, because it bugged me that what it was describing doesn't do what they say it does

[18:38:33]

Dagmar:

"Reallocate the virtual memory so both the cx18 and nvidia modules will coexist." <-- nope. doesn't _re_allocate anything

[18:39:04]

awalls:

Yeah that's wrong.

[18:39:25]

awalls:

The scarce resource with vmalloc space is page table entries

[18:39:26]

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[18:39:33]

awalls:

not memory

[18:39:51]

awalls:

unless you're using alot of your vmalloc space for loading module text segments

[18:40:04]

awalls:

and dynamically allocating big kernel buffers

[18:40:43]

stuartm:

Dagmar: as you have noticed, themes can be any resolution you want now, they will obviously be scaled up or down as required but by designing for 1920x1080 you avoid the loss of quality associated with upscaling

[18:41:04]

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[18:41:07]

awalls:

The text should be "increase the kernel's non-contiguous memory allocation limit" or something

[18:44:36]

Dagmar:

stuartm: Considering I was planning on specific pixel widths before and not looking forward to the sides of some of hte boxes doing the alpha-depth tango, this is awesome

[18:44:51]

Dagmar:

Screw people who downscale

[18:44:54]

Dagmar:

hehe

[18:45:04]

Dagmar:

They're not likely to notice anything.

[18:45:51]

stuartm:

still planning the lcars theme, or something else?

[18:46:26]

Dagmar:

Not planning, pulling the bits out of mothballs

[18:46:44]

Dagmar:

I've even got a proper 1920x1080 screen for it now

[18:47:05]

stuartm:

gbutters has done a lcars inspired theme, so we may end up with two ;)

[18:49:40]

wagnerrp:

think anyone would have a problem with me backporting UPNP database detection to the 0.22-fixes python bindings?

[18:49:56]

wagnerrp:

its more of a new feature than a bugfix, but it shouldnt hurt anything

[18:50:12]

wagnerrp:

and the mythbuntu guys are wanting something to play with for their auto-installer

[18:51:08]

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[18:52:02]

Dagmar:

I cna't see how it would break things

[18:58:36]

superm1:

wagnerrp, i'd just make sure that you have some sort of try: import coherence except Exception: pass sort of thing so it doesn't break anyone that doesn't have coherence installed yet

[18:58:49]

Dagmar:

oof

[18:58:50]

wagnerrp:

nope, no imports

[18:58:55]

wagnerrp:

just a bit of socket code

[18:58:58]

superm1:

awesome, that makes life even easier :)

[18:59:04]

Dagmar:

Which kernel was that v4l interface change made in that came up in here last night?

[18:59:12]

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[18:59:25]

wagnerrp:

superm1: thats why i was putting off implementing that

[18:59:40]

Dagmar:

I just noticed the PVR-500 page on the wiki talks about using kernel 2.6.14 or newer, which is jacked

[18:59:45]

wagnerrp:

i didnt really want to add modules that werent in a standard python distribution

[18:59:47]

Dagmar:

I know that kernel will cause a problem

[19:00:40]

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[19:04:02]

[R]:

whoever gave me that magical 888 us number

[19:04:04]

[R]:

high five

[19:07:03]

Dagmar:

huh?

[19:08:14]

[R]:

when we were talking about IR before

[19:08:19]

[R]:

someone said the length of a pulse is 888 us

[19:08:29]

Dagmar:

Oh

[19:08:38]

Dagmar:

I thought you were talking about a phone number

[19:08:43]

wagnerrp:

ditto

[19:08:56]

[R]:

lol

[19:09:04]

Dagmar:

Damnit

[19:09:22]

Dagmar:

I still can't think up a good way around this race condition.

[19:09:22]

wagnerrp:

so what do you have running at 1126hz?

[19:09:39]

Dagmar:

Here's the deal

[19:09:44]

Dagmar:

Maybe someone will know of something

[19:10:02]

Dagmar:

If you've got a PVR-500 and an HD-PVR in the same box, you can and will occasionally get _screwed_ on a reboot

[19:10:26]

Dagmar:

Bus enumeration is now guaranteed to always happen in the same order, but that's only on a per-bus basis

[19:10:50]

Dagmar:

So like, with just a PVR-500 you'd always have /dev/video0 and /dev/video1 applying to the same exact tuners each time

[19:10:52]

[R]:

Dagmar: you can make a udev rule that matches the hdpvr and assign it video1

[19:11:01]

Dagmar:

[r]: That fails too

[19:11:05]

Dagmar:

Follow carefully

[19:11:27]

wagnerrp:

even matching against model code?

[19:11:37]

Dagmar:

If you add an HD-PVR to that, since it's on a different bus, it can actually squeeze in there and get /dev/video1 and leave the second tuner of the PVR-500 winding up on /dev/video2

[19:11:40]

wagnerrp:

or do you mean the two inputs in the 500 flip-flop?

[19:11:53]

Dagmar:

I mean the HD-PVR could wind up first, in between, or last

[19:11:59]

jpabq:

??? udev works fine for me with two HD-PVRs.

[19:12:01]

[R]:

thats what the udev rule is for

[19:12:09]

[R]:

to tell it to always use video2 or whatever

[19:12:14]

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[19:12:38]

wagnerrp:

cant you map them to some completely independent name

[19:12:54]

wagnerrp:

like /dev/hdpvr0, /dev/pvr0, /dev/pvr1?

[19:12:57]

Dagmar:

jpabq: I'm not talking about two HD-PVRs, and two won't be a problem becasue like I said, bus enumeration order is now reliable

[19:13:08]

wagnerrp:

or can you not use per-rule numbering?

[19:13:08]

Dagmar:

wagnerrp: Yeah that's the only sane solution I can think of

[19:13:59]

Dagmar:

You can't really lock the thing down to a namespace (erm um with a varadic sequence?) that something else might use

[19:14:01]

jpabq:

I use http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/1763376 to make sure my HD-PVR always uses /dev/hdpvr0 and /dev/hdpvr1

[19:14:38]

Dagmar:

I've no idea what would happen should a second PVR-500 be added and you've tied the HD-PVR to /dev/video2, nor do I have good feelings about trying to put it on /dev/video0 since the PVR-500 could _still_ initialize first and get /dev/video0

[19:15:16]

Dagmar:

jpabq: I think I'm going to flat out suggest people use a different device naming

[19:16:58]

clever:

i used symlinks when i made the nodes static

[19:17:27]

clever:

SUBSYSTEM=="video4linux", SYSFS{model}=="3Com Home Connect Lite", SYMLINK+="video3com"

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[19:17:41]

clever:

then the device name clearly tells you exactly what its for

[19:18:19]

Dagmar:

Something like SUBSYSTEM=="video4linux",ATTR{name}=="Hauppauge HD PVR",NAME="v4l/hdpvr%n"

[19:19:04]

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[19:19:14]

Dagmar:

The name option was jus thte first thing that came to mind, I understand that would probably be a bit heavy-handed

[19:19:45]

Dagmar:

SYMLINK+="hdpvr%n" would be equally effective

[19:20:46]

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[19:26:49]

clever:

the only problem i can see with using symlinks like that, is programs may be limited to /dev/video* and not give you an easy option to pick something else

[19:27:02]

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[19:27:08]

wagnerrp:

they call that 'broken'

[19:27:45]

clever:

i think mythtv atleast lets you type a diff name in the box

[19:28:15]

Dagmar:

Yes those programs would be considered broke

[19:28:29]

bonelifer:

With MythTV a 7200 or 5400 RPM drive as the main drive. From what I've read some people use the 5400 drives because they create less heat? Myth or truth to these accounts?

[19:28:51]

Dagmar:

I'm saying this--by the way--not out of some fear of a theoretical problem, but because I've *seen* it happen already

[19:29:04]

Dagmar:

The first bootup I had over here, the HD-PVR landed right in the middle of hte two

[19:29:05]

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[19:29:24]

Dagmar:

The next bootup, it wound up as video3

[19:29:33]

Dagmar:

Yes my stuff broke right then and there

[19:29:35]

wagnerrp:

bonelifer: a modern large 5400rpm drive (or more likely 5900rpm) is going to be plenty fast for mythtv's needs

[19:30:12]

Dagmar:

You can't buy a disk new that would be too slow to handle the output from a single tuner

[19:30:34]

wagnerrp:

s/single tuner/reasonable limit of multiple tuners/

[19:30:35]

clever:

even my 400mhz P2 can handle the bandwidth of a single pvr150

[19:31:07]

bonelifer:

I'm not worried about speed. Just heat. This is just going to be for the system. I have a 1TB Green drive. I have a PVR-500 for SD and a HVR-1250 1196 for HD

[19:31:10]

Dagmar:

If you're putting twelve tuners in one box, I want my effing cut written out a contract before I help

[19:31:25]

wagnerrp:

basically, unless you stuff the machine full of dual digital tuners, you should be fine

[19:31:28]

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[19:31:30]

Dagmar:

Oh you're fine for heat man

[19:31:49]

clever:

the only time ive had heat problems, is when the drive wasnt mounted properly

[19:31:53]

clever:

and was isolated from the case

[19:32:03]

clever:

it couldnt disapate the heat, and got relatively hot

[19:32:08]

wagnerrp:

youre talking about 10w load for a 7200, versus maybe 5w load for a 5900

[19:32:12]

sphery:

wagnerrp: ++ (apps should support logical device names, not be limited to kernel names)

[19:32:12]

bonelifer:

the 1TB media is a WD 1TB green 7200

[19:32:12]

Dagmar:

I have a PVR-style case that I've been running two non-green disks in for awhile, and a PVR-500, and I just noticed two days ago that I'd acceidentally left all the chassis fans disconnected for like the last six months

[19:32:30]

bonelifer:

I'm using the Antec Fusion Remote Black case

[19:32:36]

Dagmar:

The only thing off was that the inside of the case was about 15F hotter than I expected and I coulndn't figure out why

[19:32:51]

clever:

Dagmar: ive discovered the CPU fan was dead on one system, and it was still running fine

[19:32:52]

wagnerrp:

inconsequential considering your graphics card will be pushing 20w+ and your cpu 40w+

[19:32:55]

Dagmar:

On 80mm intake and two 120mm outflows, all off

[19:33:00]

Dagmar:

s/On/One/;

[19:33:08]

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[19:33:46]

bonelifer:

Any suggestions for replacement 120 fans. I'd rather not use the ones that come with it as you can only change their speed with the attached speeds. I'd rather let the system handle the speed depending on the heat situation.

[19:34:04]

wagnerrp:

bonelifer: so let it

[19:34:11]

Dagmar:

Now, if you act like some of the entitled special children in here and go out and buy an nVidia GeForce 9600 GTX, expect that thing to ROAST everthing in your fanless case

[19:34:17]

wagnerrp:

any fan should be PWM capable

[19:34:27]

bonelifer:

The ones that come with the case have Switches

[19:34:28]

wagnerrp:

the whole purpose of PWM is that you can use any fan with it

[19:34:38]

Dagmar:

bonelifer: Then you should be asking yourself "CAN the system adjust the speed of these fans?"

[19:34:45]

wagnerrp:

while some fans wont run when undervolted

[19:34:50]

Dagmar:

Unless you spent a lot more money than I generally do on your motherboard, the answer is "Hhahaha no"

[19:35:04]

wagnerrp:

PWM = pulse width modulation

[19:35:17]

wagnerrp:

basically, you run at full voltage, but pulsing at a reduced duty cycle

[19:35:26]

wagnerrp:

so the fan never gets up to full speed

[19:35:27]

Dagmar:

Generally a 1200mm fan doesn't need to be downthrottled becasue they only have to move about half the RPMs of an 80mm fan to move the same amount of air

[19:35:33]

Dagmar:

er a 120m fan

[19:35:41]

wagnerrp:

it makes exactly no difference what fan you have, it will always work

[19:35:54]

Dagmar:

If you have a 1200mm fan, it should be hanging from your ceiling. Don't try to fit it in an ATX case.

[19:36:13]

Dagmar:

Less RPMS == less noise

[19:36:23]

bonelifer:

thanks for the info. This is the first rig I've done that was above a general usage computer.

[19:36:52]

Dagmar:

These people --> http://www.silentpcreview.com/ <-- very handy information

[19:37:18]

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[19:37:31]

Dagmar:

They regularly go and test stuff, and you can often find hte stuff they've tested for sale on newegg still

[19:37:47]

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[19:37:56]

Dagmar:

About five years ago, most of the really quiet stuff you just didn't find anywhere but on some asian fly-by-nite sites

[19:38:20]

clever:

http://www.inventgeek.com/Projects/IonCooler/Overview.aspx

[19:38:21]

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[19:38:30]

clever:

here is an example of going overkill, and making a totaly silent system

[19:38:34]

clever:

zero moving parts

[19:38:39]

bonelifer:

yes, hopefully the 500 comes soon, I ordered it off of ebay. Tried to get everything I could off of Newegg as they ship quickly/pack the hell out of their stuff

[19:38:45]

wagnerrp:

yeah, and hideously inefficient

[19:39:06]

wagnerrp:

not to mention the ill notion of putting high voltage sources next to electronics

[19:39:06]

clever:

wagnerrp: yeah, it doesnt say how much power the ion cooler takes

[19:39:13]

clever:

yeah

[19:39:14]

wagnerrp:

leave the rocket science to spacecraft

[19:39:21]

Dagmar:

He's cheating by mounting the cooler *outside* the case

[19:39:30]

Dagmar:

DISQUALIFIED

[19:39:32]

clever:

wagnerrp: but the other ideas like the iram can still be used

[19:39:35]

Dagmar:

heh

[19:39:53]

wagnerrp:

clever: another terrible idea

[19:39:53]

clever:

Dagmar: thats actualy just a special PSU that was designed to run fan-less, not something he hacked

[19:39:58]

wagnerrp:

RAM sucks down a lot of power

[19:40:09]

clever:

wagnerrp: yeah, it even sucks power when 'off'

[19:40:10]

wagnerrp:

far more than a much less expensive SSD

[19:40:18]

clever:

its dram, so it has to constantly refresh it

[19:40:18]

Dagmar:

clever: OKay so then he's proud he can shop carefully then?

[19:40:48]

clever:

Dagmar: you also need a structual engineer for the cpu heatsink he got

[19:40:50]

bonelifer:

I like to live dangeriously on the dealextreme.com side, but with your HTPC? No thanks.

[19:40:50]

Dagmar:

You don't get RAM in modern PCs that doesn't require that, clever

[19:41:34]

clever:

Dagmar: for my 'diskless' setup, i'm using a tmpfs as / and loading it on bootup (from usb)

[19:41:55]

clever:

so it doesnt drain power when off but still has the speed of ram disks

[19:42:15]

Dagmar:

How exactly do you figure that?

[19:42:30]

bonelifer:

how much ram do y ou have in that system with tmpfs

[19:42:32]

clever:

Dagmar: tmpfs is faster then any filesystem on usb

[19:42:38]

clever:

bonelifer: 3gig

[19:42:48]

clever:

only 1gig is going to the rootfs

[19:42:52]

wagnerrp:

i appreciate the people custom designing pumpless water cooling, or using stacks to promote convection currents

[19:43:16]

Dagmar:

wagnerrp: They make the rest of us look downright sane, don't they?

[19:43:20]

wagnerrp:

but anyone using an ion thruster as a fan is a crackhead

[19:43:29]

Dagmar:

hehehe

[19:43:47]

clever:

bonelifer: its my dads work laptop, they upgraded it to 3gig so it could handle winblows and microsoft office

[19:43:55]

bonelifer:

I'm thinking of going for a diskless system for the room as this system is plenty powerful for f/b and sending stuff to a diskless fe

[19:44:13]

bonelifer:

that'll be awhile. the money is drying up quick right now

[19:44:14]

Dagmar:

It's cat6 you''ll be wanting to run then

[19:44:22]

clever:

bonelifer: most of my diskless systems are just plain NFS root, but ram root is better for a portable system

[19:44:46]

wagnerrp:

plain old cat5e does gigabit just fine

[19:44:52]

wagnerrp:

even cat5 will do over short distances

[19:45:11]

Dagmar:

Friends don't let friends use cat5 for gigabit ethernet

[19:45:46]

bonelifer:

Yes Cat6, the run will be short distance as the living room is just on the other side of my bed room. In fact the main HTPC is in the corner that backs up to the entrance to my room and tv area.

[19:46:06]

wagnerrp:

im more for friends don't let friends use stranded conductors

[19:46:13]

Dagmar:

hehe

[19:46:14]

wagnerrp:

we have stranded cables at work, i hate them

[19:46:27]

bonelifer:

friends don't let friends run cat cable with power lines

[19:47:16]

bonelifer:

at least good friends don't

[19:47:17]

Dagmar:

bonelifter: If you use the _right pinout_ you can actually get away with that

[19:47:30]

Dagmar:

If you just pin them any which way, yes, christmas lights will screw them up

[19:47:48]

Dagmar:

I used to live in a two-story duplex, and the guy who lived on the other side from my housemate and me also had a home LAN

[19:47:58]

Dagmar:

We used to play Duke Nuke'em and stuff all the time

[19:48:15]

bonelifer:

yeah, but those Cisco guys would shit their pants if they knew you were doing that. :)

[19:48:31]

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[19:48:37]

Dagmar:

We got tired of running the cable out the windows, so we checked with the landlord and got approval to punch a hole in the middle wall, install a pair of jacks on each end and link the two lans

[19:48:39]

bonelifer:

bundling cat6/powerlines

[19:49:12]

Dagmar:

The cable to my room ran through the downstairs, where my housemate put it on the existing hooks for christmas lights on the walls

[19:49:20]

Dagmar:

Things went great the first day

[19:49:38]

Dagmar:

The second day, I was looking at <200k throughput and I couldn't for the life of me figure out why

[19:49:52]

Dagmar:

The christmas lights had been turned on

[19:49:56]

clever:

lol

[19:50:02]

clever:

that would do it

[19:50:06]

bonelifer:

what's interesting is I have 56k. Ah the Schedules Direct download will be cron'd for when I'm asleep

[19:50:21]

Dagmar:

Yes the guy on the other side of the duplex didn't know you *had* to use t568.

[19:50:28]

Dagmar:

he'd just wired them pair, pair, pair, pair.

[19:50:41]

Dagmar:

boneifer: You do not need to cron that

[19:50:46]

Dagmar:

boneifer: The backend will do it for you

[19:51:04]

clever:

Dagmar: the last time i made a cable, i only cut 1 end off, and then copied the pinout for the end i removed, does that sound any better?

[19:51:07]

Dagmar:

More importantly, it'll do it at a *variable* time when there's likely to be less load on the SD servers

[19:51:25]

bonelifer:

mean WOL I don't want to leave a Phenom II X2 with full system running all night full speed.

[19:51:26]

Dagmar:

clever: If that other end was pinned t568a or t568b you'd be fine

[19:51:59]

Dagmar:

60ft of christmas lights will kill throughput on 100base-T if it's right next to an improperly pinned cable

[19:52:30]

Dagmar:

Cable the thing correctly so that it can handle interference like the spec was designed to by cancelling it out with the twisted pairs, and suddenly those lights are no problem at all

[19:52:34]

bonelifer:

the entertainment center is just wide enough for ventilation, but still I'm going to have to cut out the paper backing board for the length

[19:53:04]

Dagmar:

clever: And the reason for hte low throughput was pretty much 99% packet loss

[19:53:14]

clever:

Dagmar: yeah, thats what i would guess

[19:53:19]

wagnerrp:

bonelifer: do you have any machine you leave on all night?

[19:53:49]

Dagmar:

You probably want to plan on your master backend staying up all the time

[19:54:00]

Dagmar:

Disks taking naps and CPUs clocking down is fine

[19:54:32]

wagnerrp:

if you really want, mythtv will auto-manage standby/shutdown

[19:54:40]

wagnerrp:

setting the BIOS RTC alarm to wake itself back up

[19:54:58]

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[19:54:59]

bonelifer:

Didn't think of that. Though there isn't much on at night Mostly prime-time recording. I was going to WOL via the WRT56GL with Tomato 1.27

[19:59:13]

bonelifer:

have any of you dealt with control the TV via the RS-232c(controlable com port)?

[19:59:52]

bonelifer:

I found a site where this guy gave his config, but the instructions in the TV manual, ahem, a little more than Im used too.

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[20:00:22]

Dagmar:

bonelifer: Those interfaces are generally not "standard" like the console ports on say, some random ethernet switch or DSL unit

[20:00:38]

Dagmar:

If you don't have the same type of TV, the chances you'll be able to do much with that port are low

[20:01:23]

wagnerrp:

there is probably consistency across models of a certain brand

[20:01:30]

bonelifer:

I found an LG the same brand on sale usually 1900, but it was going 834. The Manual has the instructions, but they are a bit more than I'm ready for right now

[20:01:34]

wagnerrp:

but dont expect different manufacturers to use anything like the same codes

[20:02:13]

Dagmar:

can you tell someone _else_ where these instructions are?

[20:02:46]

Dagmar:

I mean, it's either going to _stay_ gnomic and weird, or we'll be telling you that you're overreacting

[20:04:10]

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[20:08:45]

bonelifer:

I'll probably take that question to the forum as it would help more people there since I've only found it discussed on his site and the Linuxmce site.

[20:09:03]

wagnerrp:

mythtv has no forum

[20:09:24]

bonelifer:

But Ubuntu and MythBuntu forums exist

[20:10:04]

wagnerrp:

also, until recently in trunk, it doesnt have the ability to call external commands

[20:10:17]

wagnerrp:

you would have to program it in yourself using irexec

[20:10:18]

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[20:10:23]

jolaren:

So annoying. I had this great chat with mkrufy about a dvb-t usb card that I was going to buy but I forgot which it was

[20:10:27]

bonelifer:

This thing uses irexec and lirc

[20:11:01]

wagnerrp:

well if it was with mkrufky, it was probably a hauppauge

[20:11:12]

jolaren:

wagnerrp; Yes, that It was..

[20:11:16]

jolaren:

HD one I believe

[20:11:41]

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[20:11:49]

jolaren:

I will browse for it and paste the model name, could you affirmative it? I've e-mailed him.. I'd like to go out and buy it tomorrow ^^

[20:11:56]

wagnerrp:

which would mean a NOVA-T stick, or a HVR-900/1400/1900

[20:12:13]

wagnerrp:

no, just 900 and 1900

[20:12:16]

Dagmar:

Ack. Could someone wiht a PVR-500 run the following weird command for me? `udevinfo -a -p $(udevinfo -q path -n /dev/video1) | grep name`

[20:12:39]

Dagmar:

I didn't keep a note of the exact string the PVR-500 used last night and I'm trying to dockyment this

[20:13:00]

Dagmar:

Ah needs the ATTRS{name} value from either tuner basically

[20:13:39]

wagnerrp:

jolaren: if you had the chat in here, this channel is logged

[20:13:47]

jolaren:

wagnerrp; Yer, sure.. but on annother comp

[20:13:49]

jolaren:

And mostly in pm

[20:13:57]

jolaren:

I mailed him a few min ago

[20:14:45]

bonelifer:

I always having IRC logging on for my client. My memory is shot and I couldn't remember sometimes something I just did 30 minutes ago.

[20:14:45]

Dagmar:

I had to take my PVR-500 out of the box

[20:15:04]

jolaren:

Yer, I log everything to

[20:15:12]

jolaren:

Hauppauge WinTV NOVA-TD-HD .. I reckon this card but I can not remeber

[20:15:14]

wagnerrp:

anyway, the nova-t is digital only, the 900 is digital+framegrabber, the 1900 is digital+mpegencoder

[20:15:16]

Dagmar:

The thing has two PCI slots, and one PCI-E slot, and apparently the uppermost PCI slot shares resources with the PCI-E slot

[20:15:28]

jolaren:

He said he knew it worked bcz he programmed it

[20:16:04]

bonelifer:

I would but not only has my PVR-500 not got here yet, everything else is in boxes still.

[20:16:11]

Dagmar:

So... I can play back video on the 8500, I can have firewire control of the STB connected to the HD-PVR and I can have the PVR-500, but I can only have _two_ of those at any one time

[20:16:35]

bonelifer:

that sucks.

[20:16:43]

wagnerrp:

shares resources?

[20:16:58]

Dagmar:

Yeah, the PCI port doesn't work when there's a card in the PCI-E slot

[20:17:04]

** bonelifer looks around for some wood to knock so this doesnt happen to me. **

[20:17:06]

wagnerrp:

thats funky

[20:17:09]

jolaren:

Can anyone confirm that Hauppauge WinTV NOVA-TD-HD works or should I awaite mkrufy

[20:17:17]

wagnerrp:

linuxtv.org

[20:17:21]

Dagmar:

by "shares" I mean the PCI-E port "doesn't share and says eff your puny little PCI card"

[20:17:59]

wagnerrp:

http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hauppauge_WinTV-NOVA-T_USB

[20:18:06]

clever:

bonelifer: reminds me of when mobo's had isa and pci, both ports where in the same slot and you couldnt psysicaly fit both

[20:18:39]

wagnerrp:

i figured thats actually what Dagmar was talking about

[20:18:52]

bonelifer:

The

[20:18:52]

bonelifer:

Hauppauge WinTV HVR-1250

[20:18:57]

Dagmar:

Yeah normally this would be pretty obvious just because the ports are close together, but the 8500 is actually just one card wide for a change, and the firewire card is about 2cm tall

[20:19:07]

bonelifer:

is so small I had to take double take as I thought it was some sort of modem

[20:19:32]

wagnerrp:

bonelifer: you have seen the tuners in a USB key, right?

[20:19:38]

bonelifer:

yes

[20:19:38]

Dagmar:

Yeah this firewire card is half the height of even a "low profile" PCI card

[20:20:09]

bonelifer:

but still wasn't expecting this card to be so small with both a HD and SD tuner

[20:20:16]

wagnerrp:

8500? you upgraded from the onboard graphics?

[20:20:27]

wagnerrp:

bonelifer: it isnt, it only has one tuner

[20:20:51]

Dagmar:

wagnerrp: Yes. The 7050PV wasn't quite capable of the playback I needed

[20:21:06]

bonelifer:

Really it's listed as a Hybrid Tuner

[20:21:18]

Dagmar:

bonelifer: The SD tuner acually requires considerably more hardware than the ATSC/QAM tuner

[20:21:18]

wagnerrp:

correct... 'hybrid', not 'dual'

[20:21:19]

wagnerrp:

one tuner

[20:22:40]

bonelifer:

really just needed it for the HD as the 500 has plent NTSC for me

[20:22:53]

wagnerrp:

s/HD/digital/

[20:23:04]

wagnerrp:

and it doesnt really make a difference, since that card doesnt support NTSC

[20:23:24]

bonelifer:

It has a hybrid tuner supporting NTSC analog, ATSC and Clear QAM digital signals.

[20:23:26]

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[20:23:30]

bonelifer:

from the Newegg site

[20:23:37]

wagnerrp:

under windows, yes... under linux, its just a digital tuner

[20:23:52]

bonelifer:

yes, didn't connect what you were talking about.

[20:23:55]

wagnerrp:

and under windows, its a garbage NTSC card

[20:24:01]

Dagmar:

hehe

[20:24:11]

bonelifer:

I read that when researching

[20:24:45]

bonelifer:

I didn't go to bed till like 4:30am the first night of scoping things out for the rig

[20:24:50]

** wagnerrp has nothing against that card and personally owns one **

[20:25:06]

bonelifer:

the 9am wake up to drive across town to walk the dogs was brutal

[20:25:22]

wagnerrp:

cant walk them on your street?

[20:26:19]

bonelifer:

They are my sisters/b-in-law's and they are at Arkansas Childrens Hospital with my nephew in the PICU

[20:26:27]

Dagmar:

Ah

[20:26:57]

bonelifer:

He had pneumonia and rsv. better but having been a premie things aren't easy, He turned 2 at ACH.

[20:27:01]

bonelifer:

on Jan 4th

[20:27:35]

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[20:27:50]

bonelifer:

If they were mine there'd be a fence I'd open the door and get 8 hours later to let them in. :)

[20:32:09]

bonelifer:

is the EXT4 file system ok. I have heard it has file curruption issues with large files.

[20:32:27]

wagnerrp:

ubuntu has moved to it for their primary file system

[20:32:30]

wagnerrp:

so i assume its ok

[20:33:05]

bonelifer:

Just wanted to make sure since 9.10 uses it by default

[20:33:06]

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[20:33:15]

Dagmar:

bonelifter: Do you have mutli-exabyte archives

[20:34:01]

bonelifer:

obviously not since I only have a 1TB drive LOL, but I get your point. you know some people online don't put enough context, so i wanted to make sure.

[20:34:51]

Dagmar:

yes, if you're trying to merge one complete contents of the Library of Congress with another on the same filesystem, you could potentially have an issue

[20:35:37]

wagnerrp:

in bitmap form

[20:36:08]

bonelifer:

I just hope to record the shows that come on when I'm watching other shows. I'm addicted to TV.

[20:36:50]

bonelifer:

That and to have something to watch on TV on the weekends. It seems Sat and Sun are full of infomercials and not much else

[20:37:46]

wagnerrp:

and fridays are full of telethons

[20:37:55]

bonelifer:

only on PBS!!!

[20:38:09]

wagnerrp:

so what did you watch last night?

[20:39:24]

bonelifer:

Not much, when I get to doing something like say get parts for computer I'm on the internet non-stop till it 1) bores me or b) I can't find anything else. I did watch the Mentalist

[20:40:52]

bonelifer:

I can get a little obsessive.

[20:40:56]

wagnerrp:

only pre-recorded

[20:41:07]

wagnerrp:

it wasnt on last night

[20:41:29]

wagnerrp:

everything got cancelled for a telethon

[20:41:31]

bonelifer:

Did I mention I've been walking these dogs. :(

[20:41:33]

Dagmar:

Well, you should get the hell out of this channel right now

[20:41:47]

Dagmar:

We have no obsessive-compulsives in here, no sir-e-e-ee.

[20:42:02]

bonelifer:

I can't remember my name lately. :)

[20:42:30]

bonelifer:

I mean staying up till like 6 in the morning, knowing you have to be somewhere at 8 or 9.

[20:42:51]

bonelifer:

not matter how much you tell yourself you won't

[20:42:57]

bonelifer:

:(

[20:44:50]

bonelifer:

Luckily its only one of those rare feats of stupidity and doesn't strike me that much or I'd be dead.

[20:47:03]

jolaren:

I guess I'll wait for mkrufy wagnerrp, to hard to find cards here in Sweden whom match http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/DVB-T_USB_Devices

[20:48:11]

wagnerrp:

why must it be USB?

[20:48:34]

jolaren:

It's a ion asrock 330, there's no pci port for it

[20:48:38]

jolaren:

And no firewire output

[20:49:02]

wagnerrp:

use an old PC in the closet as a backend?

[20:49:55]

jolaren:

My apartment is 27 sqm but I guess I could do taht thought

[20:51:27]

jolaren:

But easier thought with just a usb so I don't need to waste more space

[20:51:36]

wagnerrp:

fair enough

[20:51:40]

Dagmar:

Do you even need a remote control then?

[20:52:04]

bonelifer:

could always use a Dell Optiplex and put it under a bed.

[20:52:28]

wagnerrp:

or... any other normal PC

[20:52:54]

bonelifer:

Well just thinking about size since his apartment is small

[20:53:00]

Dagmar:

Jacked up as this sounds, has anyone ever seen a USB Firewire controller?

[20:53:14]

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[20:53:21]

wagnerrp:

is that even possible?

[20:53:25]

Dagmar:

...as in a USB device with a firewire port on it

[20:53:31]

Dagmar:

I don't see why it wouldn't be possible.

[20:53:44]

bonelifer:

Yes, had a External enclosure that had both

[20:53:58]

Dagmar:

There's got to be at least some people out there with laptops that only have USB ports on them that want to connect them to DV cameras that only have firewire

[20:54:03]

wagnerrp:

firewire expects DMA access, i suppose that could be emulated through USB...

[20:54:23]

wagnerrp:

Dagmar: they make those people get PCMCIA/expresscards

[20:54:23]

bonelifer:

but they had seperate controllers for both

[20:54:33]

Dagmar:

Technically, firewire expects that all your secrets are it's for the giving out

[20:54:36]

Dagmar:

F**K that

[20:54:46]

jolaren:

Dagmar; Haha, If I need a remote control? :-)

[20:54:59]

jolaren:

My bed is in the cealing and I have about 3–4 meters to the tv

[20:55:09]

jolaren:

I could walk over to it.. but I guess I'm just lazy

[20:55:17]

Dagmar:

Yeah I was thinking with 27 sqm to play with, is there even a place in the room where you can't reach the TV?

[20:55:26]

jolaren:

^^

[20:55:33]

bonelifer:

if you have a bluetooth enabled smartphone, just find a tv control app for it.

[20:55:44]

wagnerrp:

http://www.usbfirewire.com/Parts/rr-527950.html

[20:55:53]

jolaren:

bonelifer; I do have a remote control thought..

[20:55:59]

Dagmar:

damn I'm just going to have to find a motherboard with more tha none usable PCI slot I think

[20:56:11]

jolaren:

I could use my phone but my bluetooth reciever isn't strong enough to reach my cell while in the sofa

[20:56:14]

wagnerrp:

Dagmar: meters, not ft

[20:56:33]

wagnerrp:

so a little over 16'x16'

[20:57:01]

bonelifer:

community bathroom facilities?

[20:57:15]

jolaren:

I do have my own bathroom and my own kitchen ^^

[20:57:17]

jolaren:

Haha

[20:57:43]

jolaren:

I'll just wait up for Mkrufy to refreshen my memory

[20:57:46]

bonelifer:

That's small. I commend you on your ability to live in that small a space. I don't have the will power.

[20:58:06]

jolaren:

It's not that small, honestly

[20:58:09]

Dagmar:

wagnerrp: That's about eight feet across.

[20:58:18]

jolaren:

Seein as how my bed is in the cealing It's like a big living room

[20:58:33]

Dagmar:

it's whatcha call an "efficiency" ain't it?

[20:58:35]

wagnerrp:

Dagmar: double that

[20:58:48]

wagnerrp:

16.9' square

[20:58:51]

jolaren:

Yer, I guess you could put it that way

[20:59:11]

Dagmar:

wagnerrp: By whose math?

[20:59:17]

Dagmar:

MIne's wrong but not by as much as yours

[20:59:28]

bonelifer:

When I was in college I looked at this efficency APT. The shower was so close to the sink that I would of had to climb on the sink to get into the shower.

[20:59:52]

sid3windr:

Dagmar: http://www.usbfirewire.com/Parts/rr-527950.html – discontinued

[21:00:01]

wagnerrp:

1sqm = 10.5sqft

[21:00:02]

bonelifer:

I'm not sure who designed that apt, but they were nuts

[21:00:14]

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[21:00:19]

Dagmar:

wagnerrp: 27m is 88.5826772 ft. sqrt(88.5826772) = 9.41ft

[21:00:28]

wagnerrp:

so thats 285sqft, or just under 17ft square

[21:00:30]

sid3windr:

oh hmm

[21:00:34]

sid3windr:

that's only for dv cams

[21:00:52]

Dagmar:

sid3windr: Yeah I'm thinking I'm just looking at buying a new motherboard

[21:01:38]

jolaren:

It's Sunday tomorrow anyways so I won't b able to buy squad

[21:01:46]

bonelifer:

I have a micro atx and have a pci-e 1x, pci-e 16x and two pci slots. That Ion board must be beagle board small

[21:02:19]

wagnerrp:

bonelifer: ION boards are almost all mini-itx, so at most one PCI slot

[21:02:46]

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[21:03:09]

Dagmar:

OKay. I've no idea how that calculation is going off the rails

[21:03:36]

wagnerrp:

Dagmar: its the conversion, squared

[21:03:56]

wagnerrp:

you just multiplied by 3.25, you need to do so by 3.25**2

[21:04:03]

Dagmar:

I didn't multiply anything

[21:04:17]

Dagmar:

I literally asked Google "How many feet is 27 meters?"

[21:04:21]

Dagmar:

It tells me 88.

[21:04:33]

bonelifer:

wishes that ASUS would make it easier to get s/pdif and com modules

[21:05:14]

Dagmar:

bonelifer: Easier solution, call ASRock, as they actually give a damn about individuals buying their stuff.

[21:05:20]

wagnerrp:

http://www.google.com/search?q=27+square+meters+to+square+feet

[21:06:07]

bonelifer:

Found it on ebay, but still a part number would of been nice in the manual

[21:07:20]

sid3windr:

huh, if asrock cared why would they not make stuff that works ;/

[21:07:47]

bonelifer:

Are you sure you aren't talking about Foxconn?

[21:08:10]

bonelifer:

;)

[21:13:29]

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[21:14:29]

Dagmar:

s1d3winder: Iv'e got a half-dozen ASRock boards over here that would disagree with you

[21:14:42]

sid3windr:

:)

[21:14:56]

sid3windr:

i've only had the pleasure of dealing with 2 ;/

[21:14:59]

Dagmar:

ASUS are the half of that split that made a bunch of stinkers

[21:16:46]

bonelifer:

was going to go with a lower GB at 5400, but Western Digital Caviar Green WD10EARS 1TB 5400 RPM 64MB is only like 90.00 with free shipping and most of the smallers drives are close to that much.

[21:17:00]

wagnerrp:

thats rather pricey

[21:17:06]

bonelifer:

really

[21:17:07]

wagnerrp:

you should be able to pick up a 1.5 for that much

[21:17:29]

bonelifer:

WD have 1.5? not to keen on Seagate

[21:17:58]

Dagmar:

Drat. It looks like all the new AMD board shave got freaking ATI video chipsets built in

[21:18:09]

wagnerrp:

seems theyre up to $110 now

[21:18:15]

wagnerrp:

not at sales at the moment

[21:18:23]

bonelifer:

what's that?

[21:18:24]

Dagmar:

I was hoping to find some $40–45 board

[21:18:36]

wagnerrp:

the 1.5s are for $110

[21:18:47]

wagnerrp:

1s start at $80

[21:19:11]

Dagmar:

Meh. I'll put it off until next q

[21:19:12]

wagnerrp:

a month ago, they were $10-$15 lower

[21:19:16]

sid3windr:

was going to say "expensive over there" until I realized the conversion rate was not what I thought it was.. ;)

[21:19:32]

Dagmar:

wagnerrp: That was the desperation for winter sales

[21:19:59]

wagnerrp:

i mean my 2 was only $150

[21:20:26]

jmkasunich:

test

[21:20:29]

wagnerrp:

free shipping, no special marked sale, no rebate

[21:21:16]

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[21:21:59]

bonelifer:

94.99 normally, 5 instant rebate for $89.99 and UPS 3 day free shipping

[21:22:05]

bonelifer:

not horribly bad.

[21:22:27]

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[21:39:50]

Gumby:

hi all, I am trying to figure out if its possible to pull a specific svn version of .22 fixes. Not that familiar with SVN

[21:40:10]

Dagmar:

-r number

[21:40:47]

wagnerrp:

preferably 'svn up', assuming you already have a local copy of some revision

[21:41:25]

Gumby:

I have a local copy, what I want to do is download a previous version on another machine.

[21:41:27]

Gumby:

thanks Dagmar

[21:44:25]

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[21:49:00]

Gumby:

Dagmar: can you give me sample syntax? I dont see -r in the options for svn

[21:50:01]

[R]:

Gumby: svn up --help

[21:50:10]

[R]:

svn co --help

[21:50:30]

Gumby:

thx [R]

[21:51:45]

Dagmar:

I was pretty sure either you were capable of figuring that out yourself, or that you probably shoudln't be messing with source code

[21:52:17]

sid3windr:

=)

[21:52:19]

Dagmar:

There are only so many ways one can interpret svn <subcommand> [options] [args]

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[22:13:38]

dustybin:

i have created a eggdrop / bmotion bot what logs into bitlbee and my msn account. :D

[22:13:46]

dustybin:

bmotion = nice AI

[22:21:06]

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[22:21:33]

SnakesAndStuff:

an AMD 3700+ with 2gigs of RAM should be able to do 720p video playback shouldn't it?

[22:24:28]

Dagmar:

1. The amount of RAM really isn't going to matter.

[22:24:45]

Dagmar:

2. Depending on the video codec used, no.

[22:25:12]

Dagmar:

XviD or MPG video probably isn't going to be a problem.

[22:25:40]

Dagmar:

h.264 video or VC1 (bluray) on the other hand, is going to just kinda of scream "MOAR CPU"

[22:25:45]

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[22:27:14]

Dagmar:

...or more specifically "MOAR MEGAHURTS" as multi-core isn't really going to help a thing in most cases.

[22:27:29]

Tanthrix:

SnakesAndStuff: If you pick yourself up a $50 video card that supports VDPAU, you'd probably be fine with that system.

[22:27:58]

SnakesAndStuff:

Tanthrix: It's working on my slower machine... I'm betting that it has something to do with me not having sound setup appropriately?

[22:28:19]

Tanthrix:

SnakesAndStuff: MPEG2 video or x264?

[22:28:34]

SnakesAndStuff:

Tanthrix: How do I tell?

[22:28:54]

Tanthrix:

SnakesAndStuff: Well, where did you get this video from? Something you recorded yourself via an HD tuner?

[22:28:58]

SnakesAndStuff:

vid card is geforce GTS250

[22:29:19]

SnakesAndStuff:

it is 264

[22:29:23]

Dagmar:

Should be fine with VDPAU then

[22:29:50]

Dagmar:

Just go into playback profiles and delete all the profiles that don't say "vdpau" in them in some way

[22:29:51]

SnakesAndStuff:

I bet it is my sound setup... I haven't gotten sound working.

[22:29:56]

SnakesAndStuff:

it works and plays back on my slower machine.

[22:30:02]

Dagmar:

It makes really poor choices about which playback profile to use from the defaults

[22:30:17]

Dagmar:

Sounds is coming out choppy is it?

[22:30:41]

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[22:31:09]

SnakesAndStuff:

Eh, don't have speakers plugged in even.

[22:31:16]

SnakesAndStuff:

it is a new box, this mythtv is new to me.

[22:31:25]

SnakesAndStuff:

I think I'll attack the sound first, and then come back to video choppyness.

[22:31:34]

SnakesAndStuff:

was just going to make sure that playback with those specs is realistic.

[22:31:42]

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[22:31:42]

SnakesAndStuff:

and it is, as the same exact file playsback fine on my other, slower box

[22:32:08]

Tanthrix:

Then why did you come in here and ask us if it was, by curiosity?

[22:32:20]

SnakesAndStuff:

B/c I forgot to do basic trouble shooting first?

[22:32:25]

SnakesAndStuff:

I didn't think :D

[22:32:28]

SnakesAndStuff:

sorry

[22:32:32]

Tanthrix:

Hehe, fair enough. No worries.

[22:32:44]

Tanthrix:

Dagmar is right though, go set your playback profile to vdpau.

[22:33:25]

SnakesAndStuff:

Okay, thanks :D

[22:33:46]

Dagmar:

of the defaults it *will* pick a non-VDPAU playback method that will fail

[22:33:54]

Dagmar:

hence, just yank all the non-vdpau ones

[22:34:21]

Dagmar:

They were only supposed to be rough suggestions in the first place, and they're almost all equal parts right and messed up

[22:36:09]

foxbuntu:

Tanthrix, you cant say things like that about Dagmar, you will expand his ego ;)

[22:36:35]

Dagmar:

I'm usually right because I spend hours worrying about it

[22:36:44]

foxbuntu:

Dagmar, lol

[22:37:29]

Tanthrix:

foxbuntu: Dagmar's antisocial personality disorder is usually inversely proportional to his correctness.

[22:37:53]

foxbuntu:

Tanthrix, lmao, how right you are

[22:38:00]

Tanthrix:

Actually, that would not be inversely – just proportional.

[22:38:01]

Dagmar:

No, those are separate things because I hate people.

[22:38:16]

foxbuntu:

lol

[22:38:20]

Tanthrix:

So, when deciding between someone being nice and correct, I'll take the latter everytime.

[22:39:09]

foxbuntu:

Tanthrix, too bad a choice has to be made sometimes

[22:39:30]

Dagmar:

This is why you take a job with no customer-facing responsibilities

[22:40:13]

foxbuntu:

Dagmar, not really, I generally treat my clients like idiots and they keep paying me more to do it

[22:40:26]

Tanthrix:

Well, it's just like teachers/professors. They deal with lazy, self-entitled students all day. The first time they hear "My grandma died, so I couldn't turn in my paper" they are saddened and cut the person some slack. The second time they might still do so, but with more suspiciion.

[22:40:28]

wagnerrp:

im a people person

[22:40:34]

Tanthrix:

The third time they tell the person to go to hell.

[22:40:38]

wagnerrp:

i talk to the people, because the engineers cant talk to the people

[22:40:45]

[R]:

haha

[22:41:07]

Dagmar:

foxbuntu: See I used to do security consulting... I never treated them like idiots, but I had a hard time acting suprised when the time invariably came that it was obvious that was their essential problem

[22:41:31]

foxbuntu:

Dagmar, yeah.

[22:42:09]

Tanthrix:

So, being pissy with people who come in is really not right. I've seen some particularely egregious examples of some folks coming in who were genuinely interested in getting into myth, only to be treated like they are the scum of the earth.

[22:42:18]

Tanthrix:

It's not right, but I can understand why, because overtime it just starts to get old.

[22:42:25]

Dagmar:

I've definitely got a hard-and-fast rule about "if they can't be bothered to read documentation, anything I type will also be a waste of time" tho

[22:43:11]

Tanthrix:

Dagmar: That's true, but often they are so new to things they wouldn't even know where to begin to find the documentation. Regardless. the best option then is to keep your mouth shut, rather than venting on them as it is so often fun to do.

[22:43:14]

Dagmar:

Someone on IRC can say pretty much any insane-o thing.

[22:43:23]

foxbuntu:

Dagmar, sometimes though its that they dont know where to get the proper docs, although there are the users that fit directly into that subset

[22:43:39]

Dagmar:

People writing documentation on the web have a much greater chance that they'll have made an effort to be correct and complete in their answer

[22:43:40]

foxbuntu:

crap...too slow

[22:44:04]

Dagmar:

foxbuntu: Those that won't read and won't type two words into Google probably should watch less TV in the first place

[22:44:42]

Dagmar:

The ones that lie about how long they've been working on a problem, or what things they've tried previously are just a pet peeve of mine

[22:45:25]

Dagmar:

There was a dude in here a few nights ago I just had to put on ignore within minutes, because he got upset that we implied that his expensive hardware was of no help to him

[22:45:29]

foxbuntu:

Dagmar, yeah, but I am generally willing to tell people how to get started to give them a little hand holding because I think anytime we add more users (in my case with the Mythbuntu Project) its a good thing, however if they think its free tech support I generally refuse to help

[22:45:48]

Tanthrix:

Dagmar: Ooo oo, what was his name? I want to read the backlog!

[22:46:05]

Dagmar:

We mentioned that basically his ATI video driver was likely at fault, because ATI under Linux is just pain, and he took it personally and wanted to demand an apology

[22:46:13]

Dagmar:

I don't remember his name.

[22:46:22]

Dagmar:

If I remmebered his name it would be hard to take him seriously if he comes back

[22:46:33]

foxbuntu:

Dagmar, yeah, you will have that user no matter what

[22:46:39]

Dagmar:

Among other things he told us he'd made Myth play back using the _quartz_ interface.

[22:46:43]

Dagmar:

...on an Ubuntu box.

[22:46:44]

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[22:46:46]

Dagmar:

A PC.

[22:46:59]

foxbuntu:

Dagmar, I am more concerned about going the extra mile for the user that is serious about learning MythTV and Linux

[22:47:25]

Dagmar:

Dude yeah, if someone says things that hint that they've actually been trying on their own to solve the problem, I'll sit here for hours working with them

[22:47:30]

Dagmar:

Those people we desperately need more of

[22:47:40]

Dagmar:

The internet as a whole desperately needs more of those people.

[22:47:49]

foxbuntu:

agreed.

[22:48:19]

foxbuntu:

Dagmar, but I generally stay out of the forums and mailing lists because they all too often just tick me off

[22:48:34]

Dagmar:

When they come in here and I can paste their question into Google and see hte answer in the first hit, and they say they've been working on this for "days", I have to wonder if there was a lot of lead paint in the house they grew up in

[22:48:49]

foxbuntu:

lol

[22:49:17]

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[22:49:36]

foxbuntu:

Dagmar, I think thats just a low level of user not necessarily someone being a jack-hole

[22:50:11]

foxbuntu:

Dagmar, I tend to point those people to the Wiki and so on and have them follow the guides and ask questions when they get stuck

[22:50:41]

foxbuntu:

Dagmar, but telling the general user to "google" IMHO is bad form

[22:51:10]

Dagmar:

Bad form or not, their first inclination should be to just throw a couple of words or their entire sentence at Google and see what sticks

[22:51:24]

Dagmar:

A lot of people come here before they do *anything* else

[22:51:28]

foxbuntu:

Dagmar, if they have basic google solvable questions, they are so inexperienced they will just be frustrated by that answer

[22:51:33]

Dagmar:

...and they'll have painfully common problems

[22:51:42]

foxbuntu:

yeah

[22:52:08]

Dagmar:

It's mainly that they're lazy and they think someone else will Google it for them

[22:53:00]

Dagmar:

If you audited the channel logs your jaw would drop at how many times a week someone comes in here and says "What tuner card should I buy?"

[22:53:12]

Dagmar:

...and from there it's like pulling teeth.

[22:53:14]

EdWyse_Mobile:

btw, I think it was my ATI you were poo-poohing, and the biggest problem with that conversation was that I was trying to ask "why" so I could understand better.

[22:53:36]

foxbuntu:

Dagmar, while that is the case for some users...sometimes its just someone wanting another person to give them help rather than google, and believe me I know its annoying to answer the same question over and over "Why Doesn't my PVR-150 Work?"

[22:53:39]

Dagmar:

yer 'nym looks nothing like that other person. I think it started with a j or somethng

[22:53:47]

EdWyse_Mobile:

ah, oh

[22:53:56]

Dagmar:

foxbuntu: I would jump on a question like that

[22:54:02]

Dagmar:

At least they gave you a model number up front

[22:54:21]

jmkasunich:

if I may interject a bit... I was very tempted to ask exactly that question (which tuner), even after reading the online docs and wiki – because the docs are outdated – for example talking about analog in the US, 6 months after the digital transition

[22:54:28]

foxbuntu:

Dagmar, well was just an example (and usually I have to ask what card it is)

[22:54:55]

Dagmar:

jmkasunich: Being able to answer the questions "Where are you in the world" and "what type of stuff are you trying to record" is the make-or-break point for that

[22:55:22]

Dagmar:

It's those two things that matter the most

[22:55:45]

jmkasunich:

USA, and over-the-air ;-)

[22:56:08]

Dagmar:

yeah that boils it down to a very small number of cards made by Hauppauge mainly

[22:57:08]

jmkasunich:

it seems like a LOT of the docs are written for people with cable, and set-top boxes, etc... which simply confuses the matter for people who want OTA

[22:57:09]

foxbuntu:

jmkasunich, If you are looking at hybrid cards I highly suggest using the HVR-1600

[22:57:13]

Dagmar:

Sometimes you'll ask those two questions of someone and they'll just say "Satellite" like asking where they are was just too personal

[22:57:49]

foxbuntu:

jmkasunich, or you could always wait for the big reveal here and pickup a ready to use boxen: www.foxmediasystems.com

[22:58:00]

foxbuntu:

lol

[22:58:01]

EdWyse_Mobile:

I've seem bits and pieces about playing bluray disks under linux. Is support progressing such that bluray will be playable through the UI sometime before physical media retires? :)

[22:58:18]

Dagmar:

I've been kinda mulling over a set of wiki pages that work like a Choose Your Own Adventure book but I'm still undecided about a few of the mechanisms

[22:58:27]

Dagmar:

EdWyse_Mobile: Honestly, probably not

[22:58:41]

jmkasunich:

hybrid = analog and digital, aka NTSC and ATSC, right? I don't see any reason anymore to buy something that recieves analog in the US

[22:58:48]

Dagmar:

it's not the technical end of things that's the problem. It's the political layer that's broken, if you will

[22:59:16]

Dagmar:

The VC-1 codec so far looks like it's not a big problem

[22:59:25]

Dagmar:

Decrypting the blu-ray discs, major problem

[22:59:35]

Dagmar:

Major monstrously huge problem

[22:59:37]

EdWyse_Mobile:

The governmental politics, or development politics?

[22:59:52]

Dagmar:

The government and intellectual property problems

[23:00:03]

foxbuntu:

jmkasunich, there are still reasons to have both in the US, but nearly everything is digital now

[23:00:13]

Dagmar:

The licencing under which ALL blu-ray happens pretty much makes open source development impossible.

[23:00:34]

Dagmar:

Not "ruthlessly hard", not "insurmountably hard", just flat out "impossible"

[23:00:53]

jmkasunich:

the idea of open source "you control your computer and what it does", and the ideas behind HDCP "the content owner controls what your computer can do" are mutually incompatible

[23:01:01]

Dagmar:

So like, we can have a driver for bluray drives to read data discs just fine, but they're not handled like video

[23:01:10]

EdWyse_Mobile:

I just hate having to pirate movies because they won't sell me ones I can play on my hardware of choice.

[23:01:29]

Dagmar:

Being that there are no *unencrypted* blu-ray discs out there to speak of, any developement of playing unencrypted disks would also be immediately suspect

[23:01:56]

Dagmar:

Ther'es an easier solution. Say "eff you" to monopolies

[23:03:06]

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[23:04:25]

foxbuntu:

Dagmar, not really, and I know I am one of few here, but having a hardware device that can handle the private decoding of things like blu-ray or Netflix Streaming (or anything else you want) for Linux would be a way to make people happy on both sides of the fence

[23:04:31]

Dagmar:

With the RIAA getting multi-million dollar judgements from people for leaving two cd's worth of songs accessible on their computer five years ago, there's no reason to believe the MPAA wouldn't be able to just come down on someone writing an unlicenced blu-ray player and have all their organs confiscated, and the remainder fed to rabid wolves

[23:04:33]

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[23:04:53]

Dagmar:

foxbuntu: That won't work

[23:04:57]

Dagmar:

I mean it really won't work

[23:05:04]

foxbuntu:

Dagmar, explain

[23:05:14]

foxbuntu:

Dagmar, why do you think it can't work

[23:05:31]

jmkasunich:

the content owners want things locked down all the way from the disk media to the pixels on the LCD screen

[23:05:36]

tank-man:

bandwidth is free, right :)

[23:05:54]

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[23:05:55]

Dagmar:

I think because the way things are set up, you're pretty much pushing your luck legally speaking even connecting a completely licenced bluray player like a PS3 up to an HD-PVR and dumping the media that way

[23:06:19]

Dagmar:

Even and especially if you paid full price for hte bluray disc to watch in the first place

[23:06:36]

Dagmar:

jmkasunich has the right of it

[23:06:57]

Dagmar:

This is literally a monopoly-lock situation, and the "other side" shows no sign whatsoever about budging even an millimeter

[23:08:40]

Dagmar:

Every time some gov't agency tries to question why there isn't a less onerous way to do it, the CEOs all scream "TEH PIRATES TEHY R KILLING US" and slips someone a bag of money

[23:08:54]

foxbuntu:

Dagmar, but what I am talking about is taking their requirements and building a streaming device that allows the DRM to stay intact so playback of the encrypted streams is at least possible, and if you dont like it dont buy it, that way it stays out of the kernel or other FOSS

[23:09:02]

Dagmar:

You can't.

[23:09:04]

dashcloud:

hi, where should I look if I would like to possibly change the streaming video settings ?

[23:09:08]

Dagmar:

Like, that's not even licenceable.

[23:09:22]

Dagmar:

dashcloud: in the configuration panes within MythWeb

[23:09:32]

foxbuntu:

Dagmar, sure it is. How do you think blu-ray players and so on work?

[23:09:54]

Dagmar:

foxbuntu: Seriously he was both not kidding and entirely correct when he said they want ccomplete and total control of all aspects of playback between the disc itself and the pixels on the screen

[23:10:35]

Dagmar:

I'm not 100% it's still the case, but last I checked half the blu-ray players out there won't even do 1080 over component cable because it's not copy-protected with HDCP

[23:10:49]

Dagmar:

If you even try it, they'll spitefully downsample to 720p

[23:11:24]

Dagmar:

foxbuntu: They *work* because every company involved has paid their money to become a part of the media cartel.

[23:11:33]

foxbuntu:

Dagmar, well reguardless... even if it werent blu-ray it would be nice for things like Netflix streaming

[23:11:39]

Dagmar:

It was a large sum of money.

[23:12:37]

jolaren:

If irw is not giving any outputs, is it doomed not to work?

[23:12:58]

Dagmar:

Are you sure you should be using irw to test?

[23:13:13]

jolaren:

what else? exv?

[23:13:18]

Dagmar:

Right.

[23:13:22]

Dagmar:

You've no idea what you're doing.

[23:13:23]

Dagmar:

One moment.

[23:13:25]

jolaren:

xev

[23:13:44]

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[23:13:55]

Dagmar:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/LIRC

[23:14:04]

Dagmar:

There's pictures even.

[23:14:22]

Dagmar:

Following from A to G, each step of where the information about "I pushed a button" is shown

[23:14:37]

foxbuntu:

jolaren, usually if irw doesnt provide output, your lirc configuration is wrong, it means the codes could not be received or if they are they dont match your lircd.conf

[23:14:43]

Dagmar:

irw can come into play at about step #

[23:14:46]

Dagmar:

er E

[23:15:13]

Dagmar:

A is kinda hard to mess up. Generally either ther'es batteries in the remote, or there aren't.

[23:15:21]

Dagmar:

B, well, what type of hardware you have matters.

[23:15:36]

Dagmar:

If you're talking about xev it makes me suspect you don't have an average IR reciever

[23:16:00]

Dagmar:

B pretty much dictates what C has to be

[23:16:36]

Dagmar:

Let's focus on B and C first

[23:16:43]

Dagmar:

(Yes, I did those illustrations)

[23:16:54]

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[23:16:56]

Dagmar:

(because this is a pain in the ass until you *already* know LIRC like the back of your hand)

[23:17:39]

foxbuntu:

Dagmar, its always a pita

[23:20:46]

jolaren:

Dagmar; It's a RF reciever and I've been through all of these steps based in the tutorial linked (except for the so-called finalsteps that is)

[23:21:06]

jolaren:

I' ran XEV now just to check if my first hince was correct

[23:21:16]

jolaren:

I believe my remote is half pid and half keystrokes

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