Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Tuesday, February 2nd, 2010, 00:01 AST

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larzen:

Folks....

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larzen:

what is tvheadend ?

[00:41:23]

larzen:

anyone hear of that?

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MTughan:

Sorry for the intrusion and abrupt part a little while back. wagnerrp: 'd' worked great, thanks.

[00:42:00]

** MTughan has learned not to use freenode webchat on an iPod touch **

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sphery:

larzen: wasn't tvheadend the "portable" recorder backend that projects like XBMC (that have no TV recording capability) plan to use once it's written/usable?

[00:44:24]

sphery:

i.e. it just records and any client can use its recordings

[00:45:09]

sphery:

meaning the complete opposite of the MythTV "complete, integrated media center" design, and more similar to a Freevo-like "build a DVR by integrating separate, disparate components" design

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sphery:

MTughan: sounds like you need to get an iPad so that you can see yourself get disconnected on a larger screen?

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[00:48:00]

larzen:

sphery: Im not sure. I read about XBMC being able to talk to it

[00:48:00]

MTughan:

sphery: Or just use a real client. :P

[00:48:04]

larzen:

but I don't know anyone who uses it

[00:48:06]

MTughan:

Which is what I'm using now.

[00:48:12]

larzen:

I, personally use a really old version of Myth

[00:48:31]

sphery:

MTughan: guess that works, too :)

[00:48:55]

sphery:

larzen: last I heard it sounded very basic--and lacking much of the functionality of (even ancient) MythTV's backend

[00:49:16]

larzen:

i dont use the mythfrontend.... I use (and always have) xbmc.

[00:49:31]

sphery:

well, you should probably check out current MythTV and its frontend...

[00:49:35]

sphery:

much headway has been made

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larzen:

basically myth records the show, mencoder transcodres to x264 and xbmc is used to play back

[00:50:04]

larzen:

the only fail is commercials

[00:50:12]

wagnerrp:

why transcode?

[00:50:19]

larzen:

space

[00:50:32]

wagnerrp:

buy more drives

[00:50:46]

wagnerrp:

unless youre resizing as well

[00:50:57]

larzen:

wagnerrp: it doesnt do it right away... it waits 4 days and if the show is still there it drops into the x264

[00:51:05]

Chicago:

Anybody been here complaining a whole lot about failures using latest fixes branch on Gentoo with HDHR and br0... something where the frontend stops being able to talk to the backend... and the backends logs show errors about the bridge... and in particular, when the frontend tries to establish a connection (by CTRL-C and running mythfrontend again) there is an error about the myth proto version which is un-detected.

[00:51:12]

larzen:

most of the time we'll watch it and blow it away that same day =)

[00:51:26]

wagnerrp:

for all the time youre spending transcoding, h264 was only ever designed for double the efficiency of mpeg2

[00:52:04]

larzen:

wagnerrp: its only for the shows that get backburned (i'e Dora the Explorer for kids) where there are currently 62 episodes

[00:52:33]

larzen:

reduces the size of each episode 1/3 of the original mpeg-2 stream.

[00:53:44]

sphery:

larzen: http://www.fecitfacta.com/Arclight/Welcome.html + http://www.fecitfacta.com/Graphite/ + http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Blue_Abstract_Theme + http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/ . . . 20677#420677 + http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/ . . . 20591#420591 + http://childish.lynchmv.com/

[00:53:47]

larzen:

..and yes, its a pretty tall order on the PC hardware to do this.. but I have a very high end Xeon server with lots of ram.

[00:54:27]

larzen:

wtf

[00:54:30]

larzen:

is that Myth?

[00:54:31]

sphery:

Chicago: the myth proto version error is due to the frontend's not receiving a reply from the backend

[00:54:38]

sphery:

larzen: that's current myth, not ancient Myth

[00:54:41]

wagnerrp:

the UI got a major rewrite in 0.22

[00:54:47]

wagnerrp:

with some more tweeks in 0.23

[00:54:52]

sphery:

i.e. no need for that "other" UI you're using

[00:54:54]

wagnerrp:

and hoped to be finished in 0.24

[00:55:01]

Chicago:

sphery, the dmesg output looks like -> http://pastebin.ca/1775220

[00:55:03]

larzen:

wow.

[00:55:14]

larzen:

i need to install this

[00:55:20]

Chicago:

seems to happen now and only started appearing within the last week or so

[00:55:23]

larzen:

does it talk to the old school 0.20 backends ?

[00:55:29]

wagnerrp:

nope

[00:55:35]

larzen:

ah.. fail =(

[00:55:43]

larzen:

ok... so the backend has to be updated too

[00:55:54]

larzen:

hmm... how stable is this?

[00:56:16]

larzen:

as in, is it going to die a slow death in the middle of recording a show? or is that backend functionality pretty solid?

[00:56:21]

sphery:

0.22-fixes is good

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sphery:

current trunk is being stabilized for 0.23 release

[00:56:45]

sphery:

and, really, 0.22-fixes is /much/ more stable than 0.20

[00:56:58]

sphery:

the only thing holding you at 0.20 is inertia

[00:57:05]

wagnerrp:

theres a feature freeze in trunk due shortly, with 0.23 expected at the end of the month

[00:57:10]

larzen:

thats what I run 0.20x

[00:57:10]

wagnerrp:

and is that 0.20? or 0.20.2?

[00:57:18]

larzen:

hmm let me check

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[00:58:21]

wagnerrp:

the former is hardly worth using, considering the lack of EPG data

[00:58:24]

GTswagger:

Sadly, the IR receiver on my Hauppauge PVR-250 has died. Recommendations for a new HD-capable capture card (USA)? The information out there on the wiki is sparce and I trust end users more.

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larzen:

0.21_p19961-r1 <-- this is what I run

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wagnerrp:

GTswagger: the only HD-capable capture device is the HDPVR

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larzen:

mythtv-0.22_p23069 <-- this is what is in Portage

[00:59:06]

wagnerrp:

unless you mean digital tuners, in which case there are plenty available

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** sphery should really create a macro to respond with the "#mythtv-users is +R, requires you to identify with nickserv ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#userregistration ), thanks to annoying script kiddies attacking freenode" message **

[00:59:18]

jamesd2:

too bad it needs to be that cutting edge to get graphite... mythtv is considered infrastructure (wife/kid bitches when it doesn't work) so don't want to move away from rock stable

[00:59:19]

wagnerrp:

but we would need to know where you are located to recommend the type of card

[00:59:23]

Chicago:

larzen, that's the version I'm using... it's there because Gentoo is phasing out qt3

[00:59:44]

larzen:

Chicago: 0.22x ?

[01:00:09]

GTswagger:

wagnerrp: Afraid I'm largely ignorant. I'm hooked into Charter based cable ... lower tier non-converter box channels.

[01:00:15]

larzen:

jamesd2: YES.. exactly!!!

[01:00:17]

Chicago:

larzen, there's a B.G.O. stabilization request for 0.22_p23069

[01:00:26]

GTswagger:

wagnerrp: Given the relatively crappy quality though, I'd guess I'm on analog?

[01:00:35]

Chicago:

It's assigned to gentoo developer cardoe

[01:00:42]

GTswagger:

(digital ... 1 or 0 .. it either gets there or it doesn't ... no degradation, right?)

[01:01:04]

wagnerrp:

if youre still on analog, your best bet is an old PVR-150 off ebay

[01:01:08]

larzen:

Chicago: I am using XBMC 9.11 currently on an ATOM330 for my frontend

[01:01:29]

wagnerrp:

or if your current tuner otherwise still works, just grab a new IR receiver

[01:01:30]

larzen:

up in canada here , we're all analog – so thats what I use – old PVR150s

[01:01:33]

Chicago:

wagnerrp, those PVR-150's sure do run a lot nicer these days now that there's a driver :)

[01:01:50]

larzen:

Chicago: you mean there wasn't always a driver?

[01:01:59]

Chicago:

Back in 05, it was really really new.

[01:02:06]

wagnerrp:

IVTV has been around for a long time

[01:02:26]

larzen:

yeah.. i've been running a 150 for years (4+ now)

[01:02:34]

larzen:

i also have an Nvidia dual-tuner

[01:02:35]

wagnerrp:

but the but the pre-1.0 versions, and particularly the pre-0.8 were pretty dark

[01:02:44]

larzen:

nvtv dual-tuner card

[01:02:58]

larzen:

but I don't know if there are linux drivers for it.

[01:03:37]

Chicago:

I'm having trouble getting CBR any greater than 12,500 kbps with the current v4l-dvb-hg driver.

[01:03:44]

tbone0:

hello world

[01:03:48]

Chicago:

(on pvr-150) not a big deal though

[01:04:12]

wagnerrp:

the PVR cards dont support anything greater than that bitrate

[01:04:16]

sphery:

tbone0: welcome! :)

[01:04:38]

GTswagger:

wagnerrp: thanks!

[01:05:20]

GTswagger:

Maybe I can look into getting Charter digital.

[01:05:32]

GTswagger:

The upper channels are all digital.

[01:05:34]

wagnerrp:

digital cable is likely to be encrypted

[01:05:37]

GTswagger:

yea

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[01:05:46]

wagnerrp:

and very possible it will all be encrypted

[01:05:56]

GTswagger:

converter box --> tunner --> ir blaster --> converter box

[01:06:13]

wagnerrp:

ah, well your existing 250 will work just fine there

[01:06:20]

wagnerrp:

or you can upgrade to something like an HDPVR

[01:06:29]

GTswagger:

ghetto but my understanding is cablecard support in Linux is "LOL! No...."

[01:06:41]

GTswagger:

I'm looking for something HD to be more future proof.

[01:06:42]

wagnerrp:

pretty much

[01:07:02]

** jamesd2 wonders if there are automated tools to grab shows off hulu or other streaming tv sites, and import into mythtv interface... so many more people can stop paying cable estortion fee's... **

[01:07:06]

GTswagger:

The machine it's in a new i7 custom rig I built ... and I'd hate to dump money in there for something I'd just replace soon

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sphery:

jamesd2: nope, since that would be a violation of the Hulu Terms of Service

[01:07:34]

GTswagger:

jamesd2: I gotta have my college sports though *shivers like a crack addict*

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Chicago:

This is happening to me while encoding -> http://pastebin.ca/1775229 Only while the HDHR is encoding... not sure howto proceed other than to connect the HDHR directly to the second ethernet port on the server instead of running it on the switch which connects to the bridge on eth0.

[01:08:18]

Chicago:

These appear only while mythbackend is up

[01:08:25]

sphery:

jamesd2: the /right/ way to stop paying the cable co extortion fees is to drop cable and use an antenna and buy/rent/NetFlix DVD's or Blu-Rays of the movies/TV you would have watched on cable

[01:08:33]

** sphery says no to cable extortion **

[01:08:36]

sphery:

OTA ftw!

[01:08:52]

GTswagger:

Yea ... But ESPN360's quality is crap, and they're extremely Linux unfriendly.

[01:08:59]

GTswagger:

I only recently got that crap to work in VirtualBox.

[01:09:14]

jamesd2:

sphery, yeah i have done that.. no cable here.. but i would like to catch one or two cable only shows.. like mythbusters without having to go seach for them manaually..

[01:09:22]

GTswagger:

mmm mythbusters

[01:09:26]

sphery:

yeah, I'll admit that getting DVD's of sports isn't going to work :)

[01:10:14]

Chicago:

there used to be this website desert007.com or something like that which gave links to all the good cable channels you can pickup free over the air with a big fat dish....

[01:10:15]

tbone0:

what is the prefered method to give diffenent users on the same computer there own settings? Cuz looking through my default ubuntu install i notice that the directories are by default the first user that runs myth. I know that you can change the localhost for each person, but like i said i am looking for the best prattice. The computer is a computer most of the day but occasionaly we watch tv on it

[01:10:24]

sphery:

jamesd2: yeah, I think MythNetvision will take you to the right page in Hulu (+ provide access to other online streaming sites)

[01:10:30]

jamesd2:

i'm happy with over-the-air tv 99% of the time.. 44 digital channels for free.. and dual digital tv cards make mythtv pretty powerful.

[01:10:43]

sphery:

though does so according to terms of service :)

[01:11:19]

Chicago:

jamesd2, you get a better OTA signal probably then most people see on cable for the CBS NBC ABC networks 1080P

[01:11:47]

sphery:

tbone0: you'd need to use different unique identifiers for the different user/settings combos--so, as you mentioned, use a LocalHostName override for one or both of them

[01:12:05]

tbone0:

alright just checking thanks

[01:12:15]

wagnerrp:

Chicago: neither cable nor broadcast provides 1080p

[01:12:32]

sphery:

and, since you can set the LocalHostName override in mysql.txt or config.xml, which both can appear in $HOME/.mythtv , it's easy enough to do that on a per-user basis

[01:12:37]

sphery:

tbone0: ^^^

[01:12:49]

Chicago:

wagnerrp, you know I mean ATSC transmission

[01:12:52]

Chicago:

for OTA

[01:13:01]

jamesd2:

Chicago, yeah very true.. i go over to my father-in-law's and he has an old 50" rear projection tv, and gasp at what a shitty picture he has compared to my 42" 1080p tv... and he pays $75 a month.. each of my tv tuners cost about that much.. 2 months of his cable bill paid for my whole mythtv setup.

[01:13:03]

wagnerrp:

yes, not 1080p

[01:13:14]

Chicago:

my dumb ass cable company sends the digital channels ATSC over the wire

[01:13:24]

wagnerrp:

and ABC isnt even 1080i

[01:14:12]

Chicago:

hmm, sounds like you've saved a buck or two... you owe yourself a big fat quad core Xeon for that mythtv setup. :)

[01:14:40]

wagnerrp:

xeons are worthless unless youre running multiprocessor

[01:15:04]

jamesd2:

Chicago, my dual core opteron does fine with mythtv.. unless it decides to transcode 2 shows at once while i decompress some iso..

[01:15:38]

Chicago:

Sure... but it could also be your apache server and your freeswitch server and a redundant raid for your big database and 10,000 other things

[01:16:03]

Chicago:

jamesd2, only sounds like you are diskbound there

[01:16:18]

Chicago:

jamesd2, assuming you're doing lossless transcoding

[01:16:25]

tbone0:

sphery: alright thats actully what i have been doing. I seen the other day a nice little script that deletes bungled hostnames, and it copys the localhost to different hostname

[01:16:31]

Chicago:

(meaning without really requantizing anything)

[01:16:50]

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[01:16:52]

jamesd2:

Chicago, i have a opensolaris box with ZFS for that... and it has 4x 512GB satas and an 1tb drive for short term storage.. i have a few computers around here, including 8 that i don't turn on normally...

[01:17:04]

GTswagger:

jamesd2: 44 digital? holy crap where do you live?

[01:18:21]

Chicago:

jamesd2, Are those newer Seagate satas?

[01:18:43]

GTswagger:

I'm in the I-85 corridor, basically triangulated between Atlanta, Charlotte, and Asheville.

[01:18:50]

GTswagger:

I'd be shocked if I got more than 20.

[01:18:53]

ip_goat_rodeo:

I don't think any communication ministry/whatnot anywhere will allocate enough bandwidth for 1080p broadcast.

[01:18:57]

jamesd2:

GTswagger, milwaukee... 9x pbs channels ( okay 4 are digital music and traffic) 2x fox, 3x nbc ( 1 is music and 1 is weather), abc, 3x cbs and a few local stations have 8 or more channels... most have 2 or 3 for future use but tv scan finds them

[01:19:16]

GTswagger:

Major metro cheater.

[01:19:19]

Chicago:

jamesd2, just curious.... because usally they come whitebox and sometimes the little jumper on there which limits the transfer rate is hard to see... and when you take it off you get full bandwidth to the disks

[01:19:20]

GTswagger:

:P

[01:19:31]

jamesd2:

Chicago, the 512's are 2 years old or so.. the 1tb is about 6month old

[01:19:54]

ip_goat_rodeo:

the new dvb-s system I'm switching to has somewhere around 90. I get 22 ISDB-T channels on OTA.

[01:20:09]

jamesd2:

Chicago, they get about 65MB/s much less in raidz with dedup enabled... but good enough for me.

[01:20:16]

tbone0:

Dose anyone know the status ati uvd (va-api) when it likely will get support?

[01:20:18]

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Chicago:

jamesd2, I put four Seagates (SATA 512GB) into a RAID 5 configuration and see 300MB/sec reads.

[01:21:12]

Chicago:

But I don't use it for myth.... I use one of their other disks with ATAPI-7 for striping for the default recording dir

[01:21:20]

ip_goat_rodeo:

people who need raidz don't generally care about benchmark numbers higher than "enough"

[01:21:35]

ip_goat_rodeo:

since zfs is not about performance

[01:21:49]

Chicago:

ip_goat_rodeo, I raided them to get full bandwidth out of the SATA chipset for editing video.

[01:21:57]

jamesd2:

Chicago, i seen about 100MB/s in raidz (like raid5 but with ZFS checksums and other stuff if you aren't familliar) and read really isn't a big thing for me since i'm limited to gigabit networking and most of my family has wireless or 100mbit links.

[01:22:42]

ip_goat_rodeo:

you're better off doing raid10 if you need both speed and reliability

[01:23:28]

ip_goat_rodeo:

or rather speed at all costs other than reliability

[01:23:42]

Chicago:

ip_goat_rodeo, 4 disks gets me to 300MB/s that's the max

[01:24:06]

Chicago:

I could do a bit better on writes though... I'm not seeing so much disk activity as to need to add more drive heads and spindles

[01:24:07]

jamesd2:

yeap.. but currently between jobs.. so raidz it is.. when i back to work i plan on updating to 1.5TB drives, and maybe even an ssd for zlogs..( transaction logs)

[01:24:40]

ip_goat_rodeo:

you'll want a mirrored pair of ssds for slog

[01:24:57]

ip_goat_rodeo:

slog device failure = your whole pool is toast

[01:25:21]

Chicago:

We're never going to see ZFS in built into the kernel are we?

[01:25:22]

jamesd2:

ip_goat_rodeo, its okay for home use.. i can take the loss of 5 seconds of data loss... ZFS handles the loss of log devices pretty well wont kill the pool.

[01:25:40]

ip_goat_rodeo:

not unless things have changed since v18

[01:25:44]

jamesd2:

Chicago, not in linux, the license conflicts but you can use it via nfs or iscsi

[01:26:06]

jamesd2:

ip_goat_rodeo, they are on v22 now.. has data dedup now

[01:26:09]

Chicago:

jamesd2, two more years or so left on my linux obsession... then off to big-admin for more SUN fun!

[01:26:19]

ip_goat_rodeo:

cache device components can die, a slog failure renders the whole pool useless unless its changed

[01:27:26]

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[01:27:43]

jamesd2:

ip_goat_rodeo, its been updated since then at least its my understanding.. my ssd research is on hold, since checking account wont support the purchase for now, IIRC it was fixed they can even roll back transactions if something really breaks bad

[01:28:22]

Chicago:

sphery, 2010-02–02 00:27:24.119 Protocol version check failure. The response to MYTH_PROTO_VERSION was empty. is the exact error... How can I find out what's making my backend's network crap out...?

[01:30:18]

Chicago:

This only happens while my backend is recording two programs from the HDHomerun... nonetheless, the load average on the backend is like 0.07 and I'm pretty much 95+ percent idle on all four cores.

[01:31:16]

Chicago:

I am wondering if it's the e1000 driver in my gentoo-sources-2.6.31-r6... or the new firmware for the HD homerun.

[01:32:17]

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[01:34:34]

ip_goat_rodeo:

tcpdump no help?

[01:35:36]

Chicago:

ip_goat_rodeo, the clue I found on bugs.gentoo.org specifies it as an e1000 error introduced around 2.6.30... but I'm unable to track it down.

[01:36:15]

Chicago:

ip_goat_rodeo, tcpdump hasn't been applied to this problem, yet

[01:37:04]

sphery:

Chicago: Sorry, I don't have any ideas. To me, networks are black magic.

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Chicago:

sphery, well thanks for thinking about it anyway! I'm off to bed.

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tbone0:

anyone here of any problem running lucid and lirc, its seems like its not loading the lirc driver.

[02:00:25]

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[02:06:41]

[R]:

tbone0: which driver

[02:07:43]

tbone0:

well i am not getting lirc device file

[02:08:15]

tbone0:

in karmic i used to get /dev/lirc and lircd

[02:08:24]

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[02:08:57]

[R]:

ok well

[02:08:58]

tbone0:

now i upgraded to karmic and no file, So i am trying to figure out what going on

[02:09:03]

[R]:

[11:06:40] [R] tbone0: which driver

[02:09:22]

tbone0:

R: I don't know yet

[02:09:32]

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[02:10:00]

tbone0:

R: I am trying to figure this out, it just automagically worked before

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[02:19:00]

oobe:

tbone0, /dev/lircd is a symlink to /var/run/lirc/lircd

[02:19:21]

oobe:

so all you would need to do is ln -s /var/run/lirc/lircd /dev/lircd

[02:19:30]

oobe:

assuming that /var/run/lirc/lircd exists

[02:21:01]

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[02:21:26]

tbone0:

oobe: checking...

[02:21:58]

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[02:22:20]

tbone0:

oobe:thats a negative no /var/run/lirc

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[02:23:41]

oobe:

ok i have a different device on a different distro

[02:24:06]

oobe:

i used to have ubuntu partition that i could check but i wiped it yesterday

[02:24:40]

tbone0:

Well, i am just messing with lynx, it works fine under karmic

[02:24:55]

oobe:

that has nothing relevent

[02:26:38]

oobe:

i just checked tbone0 /var/run/lirc/lircd should exist

[02:26:59]

oobe:

perhaps you havent loaded the lirc modules correctly

[02:27:11]

oobe:

check you have /etc/lirc configs setup correctly

[02:27:30]

oobe:

especially hardware.conf

[02:27:39]

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[02:28:00]

oobe:

try using there mcc prog to generate configs

[02:28:33]

tbone0:

yes was just looking at that, going to double check stuff with my working box

[02:29:51]

tbone0:

oobe: thanks for the advice

[02:30:05]

oobe:

you got it going?

[02:30:12]

tbone0:

no

[02:30:20]

oobe:

then i did nothing hehe

[02:30:37]

oobe:

what remote are you using

[02:30:57]

tbone0:

oobe: I let you know how it turns out, i am using winmce

[02:31:01]

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[02:31:17]

oobe:

so that's an mce usb remote?

[02:31:23]

tbone0:

oobe: yeah thats it

[02:31:24]

oobe:

if so it should be pretty easy

[02:31:30]

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[02:31:49]

oobe:

just select that in mce setup

[02:31:54]

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[02:31:58]

tbone0:

what is mcc prog? i haven't seen that

[02:32:08]

oobe:

if you already did there are loads of guides around that will supply configs

[02:32:18]

oobe:

mythbuntu-control-centre

[02:33:53]

tbone0:

yeah that the difference, between my boxes i just installed myth without mythubuntu

[02:34:35]

tbone0:

I remember now that it did autoconfig everything

[02:35:06]

oobe:

well sudo dpkg-reconfigure lirc might work

[02:35:09]

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[02:35:19]

oobe:

if not the guides found in google will supply configs

[02:35:47]

oobe:

you just need /etc/lirc/hardware.conf /etc/lirc/lircd.conf and ~/.mythtv/lircrc

[02:36:14]

oobe:

after that restart lirc

[02:36:30]

tbone0:

alright, I give it a try thanks

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[03:09:29]

tbone0:

oobe: to give you a status update tried to do the generate thing, but it didn't work, I looked launchpad and there's three problems that it might be that is specific to the lucid packaging. A few people seem to have this problem.

[03:10:46]

oobe:

ok well i never use that auto configure stuff

[03:10:58]

oobe:

i assumed it would be easier for you but i was wrong

[03:11:30]

oobe:

just do it the manual way which is to find a hardware.conf and lircd.conf and lircrc by using google "lirc mce remote"

[03:13:07]

tbone0:

oobe: i'll give it a try tommorrow thanks anyways.

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[04:30:05]

jst_:

Anyone know if there's some crude way of enabling a buffer for streaming files? I'm using an 802.11n network, and playback keeps skipping. I can't run wires here.

[04:30:30]

wagnerrp:

rewrite myth's internal streaming code

[04:30:41]

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[04:30:41]

jst_:

lulz

[04:30:46]

jst_:

someone told me there was a patch I could use

[04:31:04]

jst_:

that did essentially the same thing... no?

[04:31:43]

wagnerrp:

there may be, nothing i know of off hand

[04:32:01]

jst_:

alright, thanks

[04:34:42]

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[04:36:11]

oobe:

jst_, i had a similar problem i use wireless-n and i thought that would solve it by being faster then wireless-g but it didnt until i switched my network shares from nfs to fuse

[04:36:12]

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[04:36:17]

oobe:

also making sure your using the newest wifi drivers helps

[04:36:21]

wagnerrp:

why are you using either?

[04:36:55]

jst_:

yeah, i'm confused

[04:37:04]

jst_:

were you streaming them to a windows machine?

[04:37:18]

oobe:

i mean for mythvideo

[04:37:22]

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[04:37:24]

wagnerrp:

specifically... why would you be accessing them from the file system, rather than being streamed from the backend

[04:37:28]

oobe:

instead of nfs shares or SGs

[04:37:51]

jst_:

ahh

[04:37:58]

oobe:

i will switch to SG's once all issues have been resolved

[04:38:07]

wagnerrp:

you use ISOs?

[04:38:12]

jst_:

SGs?

[04:38:19]

wagnerrp:

storage groups

[04:38:21]

oobe:

not often but i know that is one issue

[04:38:32]

wagnerrp:

mythbackend's form of file access

[04:38:35]

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[04:38:50]

wagnerrp:

file access is manage by the backend, and frontends access content through the backend

[04:38:56]

oobe:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1090085 this is a thread i made when i first set it up it may be a bit outdated no one really responded so i can tell the idea isnt popular

[04:39:35]

oobe:

i.e fuse is built into the kernel now for ubuntu

[04:39:43]

oobe:

it wasnt when i wrote that

[04:40:31]

jst_:

were you using sshfs with fuse?

[04:40:37]

oobe:

yea

[04:40:43]

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[04:40:44]

oobe:

it works well for me

[04:40:44]

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[04:41:08]

oobe:

i set it up so fe doesnt need a password to auto mount it

[04:41:11]

jst_:

you'd think that would have more overhead than nfs... strange.

[04:41:11]

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[04:41:32]

wagnerrp:

im sure it does

[04:42:02]

oobe:

it was a big improvement over nfs

[04:42:08]

oobe:

for wireless

[04:42:29]

wagnerrp:

the data rate is so low that the overhead doesnt matter

[04:43:03]

wagnerrp:

it probably has to do with sshfs prefetching the file as fast as it can

[04:43:20]

wagnerrp:

rather than waiting for the client to request the data

[04:43:42]

oobe:

maybe i dont remember the exact issues i had with nfs all i know is i have no problems since switching

[04:43:50]

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[04:44:09]

wagnerrp:

i cant think of any other way it might resolve that issue

[04:44:28]

wagnerrp:

because its going to suffer from exactly the same problems as NFS

[04:44:33]

wagnerrp:

its nothing to do with throughput

[04:44:50]

wagnerrp:

but rather the fact that wireless _will_ drop, and not infrequently

[04:45:34]

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[04:45:40]

wagnerrp:

G, youre likely to just not have sustained throughput for HD recordings

[04:45:41]

oobe:

also my wifi drivers required several patches prior to kernel 2.6.32

[04:45:54]

wagnerrp:

but N, youre still going to have an intermittent connection

[04:46:01]

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[04:46:04]

jst_:

hmm, would i lose autoskipping if i accessed my /var/lib/mythtv/recordings directory under "watch videos?"

[04:46:26]

oobe:

wireless-g cant do HDTV no where near enough

[04:46:47]

wagnerrp:

good clean G should manage mid-20s mbps

[04:46:55]

wagnerrp:

while ATSC tops out at 19mbps

[04:47:27]

oobe:

i cant get more than 5mbps with G network

[04:47:44]

wagnerrp:

you probably have some B clients somewhere

[04:48:26]

jst_:

i can't get more than 2–3 MB/s (so roughly 20 mbps) on wireless n... something's not right w/ my configuration

[04:50:27]

oobe:

what card are you using

[04:50:31]

oobe:

and router i guess

[04:50:36]

jst_:

trendnet router and card

[04:50:47]

jst_:

but it's going from one end of the house to the other... through several walls

[04:50:54]

jst_:

maybe that's the norm

[04:51:19]

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[04:51:25]

oobe:

i dont know about that card

[04:51:47]

oobe:

what driver does it use

[04:51:52]

jst_:

scratch that... rt2800

[04:51:58]

jst_:

ralink is the vendor

[04:52:24]

jst_:

rt2860 is the driver

[04:52:51]

jst_:

ohh well look at this

[04:53:06]

jst_:

Bit Rate=54 Mb/s

[04:53:13]

oobe:

lol

[04:53:16]

oobe:

yeah that happens

[04:53:19]

jst_:

wtf?

[04:53:23]

jst_:

that's crazy

[04:53:26]

oobe:

you need to set your router to n only

[04:53:34]

jst_:

i can't... i have some g clients :(

[04:54:00]

jst_:

and i can't upgrade those because dell's bios won't recognize new cards

[04:54:01]

oobe:

if its mixed then you may be able to set it to n using iwconfig

[04:54:03]

wagnerrp:

then switch it over to 5GHz, and keep a 2.4GHz G AP for your G clients

[04:54:21]

jst_:

i'll have to try that

[04:54:27]

jst_:

unfortunately, iwconfig doesn't work so well

[04:54:33]

jst_:

:(

[04:54:46]

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[04:55:17]

oobe:

some drivers dont support rate control

[04:56:09]

wagnerrp:

your other option is to just run wires

[04:56:42]

oobe:

thats an ideal solution in an unideal world

[04:56:53]

wagnerrp:

you can always run wires

[04:57:16]

jst_:

i normally do

[04:57:36]

jst_:

but i'm moving in 2 weeks

[04:57:36]

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[04:57:37]

wagnerrp:

you may just have to get creative

[04:57:37]

wagnerrp:

flat cat6

[04:57:37]

wagnerrp:

conduits

[04:57:38]

wagnerrp:

pulling up carpet

[04:57:48]

wagnerrp:

HVAC ducts

[04:57:54]

wagnerrp:

rugs

[04:58:50]

oobe:

what do you mean by conduits

[04:59:08]

oobe:

oh like pipe

[04:59:09]

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[04:59:18]

wagnerrp:

basically, yes

[04:59:40]

wagnerrp:

you can get plastic corners or boxes you can stick to the wall

[05:00:00]

wagnerrp:

get them the same color as the wall, and it wont stand out

[05:00:14]

wagnerrp:

or if you have some sort of molding, you can just pull, hollow, and reattach

[05:01:02]

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[05:01:16]

jst_:

you'd think 802.11n would be good enough... mimo = close to theoretical 300 mbps

[05:01:30]

wagnerrp:

thats bitstream throughput

[05:01:34]

wagnerrp:

not data throughput

[05:01:40]

jst_:

ahh

[05:01:50]

wagnerrp:

thats why you never get anything like 54mbps out of G

[05:03:12]

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[05:04:17]

oobe:

wireless-n is good enough but the hardware needs to have decent drivers

[05:05:00]

oobe:

i have a script that reconnects my wireless every time it disconnects and logs it

[05:05:04]

oobe:

my log is empty

[05:06:41]

jst_:

anyone know how i can tell what version of a driver i have installed?

[05:07:08]

oobe:

lsmod | grep mac

[05:07:36]

oobe:

will probably show the module attached to mac8011

[05:07:51]

oobe:

e.g mac80211 167964 1 ath9k

[05:07:55]

oobe:

im using ath9k

[05:07:56]

jst_:

no

[05:08:04]

jst_:

this driver is ghetto

[05:08:10]

oobe:

lsmod | grep rt

[05:08:25]

jst_:

yeah, that works

[05:08:29]

jst_:

but i don't think it's right

[05:08:39]

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[05:08:42]

jst_:

585580

[05:08:52]

oobe:

pastebin lspci -v

[05:09:06]

jst_:

alright, one sec

[05:10:04]

jst_:

taking forever, because i have no mouse and it's on another machine bear with me

[05:10:37]

oobe:

use ssh

[05:10:40]

jst_:

http://pastebin.com/d190ffc1f

[05:14:29]

oobe:

ok it appears you card is not supported by any open drivers ralink make the drivers you are using

[05:14:49]

oobe:

also there is a thread about using the windows drivers with ndiswrapper that could well work

[05:14:58]

oobe:

i have had success trying this before

[05:15:02]

oobe:

http://www.connect-utb.com/index.php?option=c . . . mp;Itemid=64

[05:15:42]

jst_:

alright

[05:15:49]

jst_:

i guess i'll try using ralink's driver

[05:16:28]

jst_:

http://www.ralinktech.com/support.php?s=2

[05:16:54]

jst_:

prob should mess with that before ndiswrapper, eh?

[05:17:47]

oobe:

it appears you are already using the ralink driver

[05:17:50]

oobe:

but yea try it

[05:18:02]

oobe:

i would prefer to use a native solution over ndiswrapper

[05:18:28]

oobe:

but i also wouldnt mind using ndiswrapper if you can get the wireless speeds you need

[05:18:33]

oobe:

which is possible

[05:19:06]

jst_:

well, this came with ubuntu

[05:19:10]

jst_:

the driver i'm using currently

[05:19:15]

jst_:

so maybe an upgrade will fix it

[05:20:22]

oobe:

this thread is worth reading since its all about your card http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=683085

[05:21:19]

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[05:21:31]

jst_:

cool

[05:21:33]

jst_:

thanks for all your help

[05:22:00]

oobe:

my advice is to be able to know this before you buy new hardware in future

[05:22:47]

oobe:

although wireless is always hard

[05:23:23]

jst_:

yeah, i went w/ trendnet because i read some good stuff about them on the forums

[05:23:27]

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[05:23:57]

oobe:

see cause that name doesnt mean anything in terms of driver support

[05:24:04]

oobe:

its using a ralink chips

[05:24:33]

oobe:

which is more relevant in terms of linux support but i had to get you to paste lspci -v before we new that

[05:25:10]

jst_:

yeah

[05:31:09]

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[07:09:59]

teknopagan:

Mornin, folks – anybody around?

[07:10:26]

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[07:11:33]

bjd:

yo

[07:12:49]

teknopagan:

Trying to work out if there is a setting somewhere in 0.22 that would let me adjust the look of .srt subtitles in MythVideo

[07:16:20]

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[07:20:26]

bjd:

ummmmmmmm

[07:20:36]

bjd:

think there is an option that lets you change the font of subtitles

[07:20:40]

bjd:

and sizing and so on

[07:21:40]

bjd:

might be within the appearance/look config section or something – i'm not near a myth box atm

[07:23:20]

teknopagan:

Yeah, there's a setting in TV Settings | OSD somethin or other

[07:23:29]

teknopagan:

Doesn't seem to apply to MythVideo though

[07:24:23]

bjd:

ah, shame

[07:24:57]

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[07:28:23]

teknopagan:

Could that be something that's theme-controlled?

[07:29:54]

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[07:30:37]

bjd:

would seem strange that the mythvideo plugin doesn't honour the OSD config

[07:31:59]

teknopagan:

Yeah, seems odd to me too. However, right now I'm watching a movie in which the .srt subtitles are very small and have no black background, in defiance of the setting

[07:32:43]

bjd:

internal player?

[07:33:00]

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[07:33:25]

GreyFoxx:

I believe certain subtitle rendering didn't properly handle that. There were commits just this weekend to make that work properly

[07:37:20]

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[07:39:06]

teknopagan:

yup, internal player

[07:39:52]

pheld:

GreyFoxx: subtitle rendering was ok in trunk 1 or 2 weeks ago. now (rev 23415) it's off wrt scale and position, at least on 1920x1200

[07:39:59]

teknopagan:

GreyFoxx, by commits do you mean I could update to a nightly and have this fixed?

[07:48:44]

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[08:36:34]

hipitihop:

I know this is somewhat OT but is anyone familiar with the current Karmic bluetooth stack ? some guides suggest use of /etc/bluetooth/hcid.conf but this now seems out of date

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[09:53:38]

malocite:

anyone here? Does anyone know how to reset ALL metadata in mythvideo at once?

[10:00:34]

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[10:01:22]

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[10:01:52]

jolaren:

What platform do you recomend running mythbackend on? Like the smallest, debian – mythbuntu? Or perhaps DSL/Knoppix=

[10:02:34]

jokajak:

jolaren: whatever you can get working

[10:04:38]

jolaren:

could get anything working just askin if anyone has experience of it

[10:05:21]

jokajak:

you'll probably find someone has installed mythbackend on almost every distro

[10:11:06]

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[10:11:14]

oobe:

wow you nicks look very similar

[10:11:28]

oobe:

at first glance it looks like its only one person

[10:11:46]

oobe:

jokajak, is right you could use any distro

[10:12:08]

oobe:

but it makes more sense to choose one that already has a lot of the required pre built packages

[10:14:30]

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[10:18:03]

jolaren:

oobe; I had ubuntu server running fine

[10:18:08]

jolaren:

with mythbackend

[10:18:14]

jolaren:

but the root partition was to small

[10:18:17]

jolaren:

so now I'm doing it all over

[10:18:23]

jolaren:

but I will choose debian this turn around

[10:18:30]

jolaren:

cuz it's more stable (my own opinion)

[10:21:22]

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[10:22:22]

jolaren:

Took me 3 days to setup the mythtvbackend thought (was before I knew myth existed) my first approach was newcs/newcamd etc to view it in my network but had loads of problem gettin the client to run

[10:22:26]

jolaren:

but mythtv just works

[10:24:49]

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[11:04:25]

iamlindoro:

jolaren, This is my *last official warning* to you. If you *ever* mention card sharing software again, you will receive a ban. I am tired of warning you over and over.

[11:04:59]

iamlindoro:

If you cannot respect the rules of this channel, you need to leave

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[11:31:01]

oobe:

iamlindoro, i been using arclight all week long i love it

[11:31:13]

oobe:

well jolaren its really your choice

[11:31:40]

oobe:

i cant tell you what distro to use if you are experienced linux user choose what you know best

[11:32:31]

oobe:

if what you want is a very light wieght install with only bare minimum for running myth then your question makes more sense but you havent specified

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[12:06:28]

anykey_:

could anyone think of something that would make mythwelcome steal the focus from mythfrontend when it's running behind the frontend? I've seen it twice here now and can't really reproduce it. I'm using twm as window manager...

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[12:19:05]

wagnerrp:

it may be some quirk of twm, maybe try a different WM

[12:19:32]

wagnerrp:

twm is not a typical window manager for mythtv, or really for anyone

[12:20:10]

anykey_:

what would be a typical wm that is as light as twm?

[12:20:40]

TauPan:

twm doesn't have "quirks"

[12:20:48]

gbee:

bugs then

[12:21:02]

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[12:21:05]

TauPan:

it's too old to have bugs...

[12:21:11]

anykey_:

could an LIRC event received by mythwelcome in error be the problem?

[12:21:43]

anykey_:

I mean both programs are listening on the LIRC socket and both of them use the same identifier ("mythtv")?

[12:21:51]

wagnerrp:

TauPan: except.... no one uses it

[12:22:11]

wagnerrp:

twm is likely run on a new installation for about the four seconds needed to find out whether X is working

[12:22:46]

wagnerrp:

mythwelcome probably ignores LIRC commands so long as mythtv is running

[12:22:58]

TauPan:

countless people have stolen code from twm, so it's still alive in some weird, undead kind of way

[12:23:07]

gbee:

I like the idea that once something is old enough, it can't have bugs ... I suppose IE6 can't have bugs because it's nearly ten years old, but wait ...

[12:23:09]

TauPan:

but I also doubt someone really uses it any more

[12:23:13]

wagnerrp:

mythtv does the same thing when calling external programs

[12:23:49]

wagnerrp:

TauPan: well, beside anykey_ anyway

[12:24:38]

anykey_:

wagnerrp: so, if I use a dead WM (on a dedicated mythbox that is), what wm would you recommend?

[12:24:45]

TauPan:

twm is from 1987 ;)

[12:24:51]

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[12:24:52]

TauPan:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twm

[12:25:00]

TauPan:

oops, wrong language

[12:25:10]

gbee:

I'm not defending mythwelcome either, my views on it are well known

[12:25:17]

TauPan:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twm

[12:25:21]

wagnerrp:

the commonly used ones are evilwm, ratpoison, fluxbox, xfce, maybe e16

[12:25:38]

TauPan:

commonly used? is there a poll?

[12:26:21]

wagnerrp:

no, just conjecture from discussion in here, on the lists, and articles on the wiki

[12:26:59]

jokajak:

i use gnome ;-)

[12:27:32]

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[12:27:38]

anykey_:

jokajak: no, you use metacity

[12:27:39]

wagnerrp:

gnome isnt a window manager

[12:27:46]

wagnerrp:

anykey_++

[12:27:49]

jokajak:

thanks for the clarification :)

[12:27:53]

jokajak:

i use metacity

[12:28:03]

jokajak:

that's not overkill, right? :D

[12:28:11]

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[12:28:27]

wagnerrp:

are you otherwise using the computer as a desktop?

[12:28:35]

jokajak:

nope

[12:28:36]

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[12:28:38]

wagnerrp:

yes

[12:28:58]

jokajak:

i know, but i'm too lazy to change it. it works and passes the wife test

[12:29:23]

wagnerrp:

is there actually a way around the gnome bar remaining on top of mythtv?

[12:29:33]

wagnerrp:

ive heard thats a problem, but TBH, ive never heard a solution

[12:30:15]

jokajak:

for whatever reason, my tv isn't properly detected by my video card so the panels exist outside the viewable area

[12:30:31]

wagnerrp:

its properly detected

[12:30:36]

wagnerrp:

all TVs overscan

[12:30:44]

wagnerrp:

and only very few allow you to turn off overscan

[12:31:04]

jokajak:

i've only had the problem since i upgraded from f10

[12:31:08]

wagnerrp:

the 'screen setup wizard' in the frontend setup allows you to set the GUI size to exactly fir yout viewable area

[12:31:16]

jokajak:

which i used to great effect

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[12:32:22]

jokajak:

all in all, i'm very happy with my mythtv setup. the only problem i have is getting low on disk space, myth doesn't seem to honor my minimum free disk space configuration

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[12:40:39]

oobe:

anykey_, fluxbox is nice for mythfrontend

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iamlindoro:

Beirdo: Any chance you might be willing to join/log #mythtv-theming?

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[14:04:38]

bubba2010:

how do I add a driver for the hvr-950q. i added firmware for the xc5000 in the lib/firmware dir but mythtv doesn't seem to see it

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[14:42:24]

arriflex:

test post

[14:42:42]

arriflex:

guess it works!

[14:44:03]

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[14:45:11]

arriflex:

Anybody know if a screwed up key in the jobqueue table might have been causing kernel panics?

[14:45:44]

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[14:50:17]

iamlindoro:

arriflex: tough to imagine how that would be possible, should all be userspace (and at worst would be a mysql issue rather than a Myth one)

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[14:54:15]

arriflex:

K, thanks.

[14:54:44]

arriflex:

I finally figured out how to repair the table from the mysql prompt, and cleaned it up using the use_frm

[14:55:07]

arriflex:

the comp seems to be running better since. but I never could find anything in the log files

[14:56:23]

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[15:07:06]

sphery:

Captain_Murdoch: of course LCARS compresses well--you really think they wouldn't have figured out how to create a UI that doesn't compress well by the 24th century?

[15:08:48]

Captain_Murdoch:

wonder why they used CGA displays everywhere then. :)

[15:09:30]

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[15:09:44]

Captain_Murdoch:

I can remember thinking how nice my ?ECGA? card was that let me have EGA colors at CGA resolution.

[15:09:53]

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[15:11:20]

sphery:

heh, CGA... Never thought of it that way, but now that you mention it...

[15:12:21]

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[15:12:29]

jamesd2:

remembers of dreaming of buying an nec apc with high color option... 1024x768 and 256bit color... along with 8" dual sided high density disks... 1.6MB on a single 8" floppy disk...

[15:12:31]

** jams had an awesome card with 2 video outs. one side ega the other cga AND both could be active at the same time **

[15:12:46]

iamlindoro:

256 bit color, eh?

[15:12:52]

iamlindoro:

think we still dream about that

[15:12:54]

jamesd2:

er 8 bit color..

[15:13:23]

iamlindoro:

All about the Hercules

[15:13:37]

jamesd2:

jams, i had one that did cga + hercelus graphics at the same time...

[15:14:11]

feed_me_seymour:

Doh, read the FAQ and it didn't cover it — is there anything I should read that would cover the day-to-day #mythtv-users questions like "I want to build a MythTV box, does anyone have a starting build to work from?"

[15:14:41]

jams:

wonder if I still have that card somewhere. If I remember correctly that card was huge

[15:14:45]

jams:

full length

[15:15:46]

jamesd2:

i think i have a homemade cga full length 8bit card around somewhere.. its amazing what wierd stuff you end up with working in a computer store back in the late 80's

[15:16:18]

sphery:

feed_me_seymour: you're looking for a software build? If so, go with Mythbuntu ( http://www.mythbuntu.org/ ) or MythDora ( http://www.mythdora.com/ ) or LinHES ( http://knoppmyth.net/index.html )

[15:16:22]

sphery:

feed_me_seymour: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Packages

[15:16:52]

feed_me_seymour:

sphery: Thanks! I'm more looking for the hardware side, i.e. which cards would be the most widely supported for use in the US, that kind of thing.

[15:17:13]

feed_me_seymour:

sphery: I'm very comfortable with Ubuntu and the MythTV packages side of it. I just want to get a handle on what I'm looking at in the hardware department first.

[15:18:08]

sphery:

feed_me_seymour: http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page for capture card. Generally the recommendation will be for an nvidia graphics card.

[15:18:21]

feed_me_seymour:

sphery: nvidia for capture?

[15:18:23]

sphery:

and the only other requirement is very big disks

[15:18:30]

sphery:

nope, nvidia for graphics/video output

[15:18:50]

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[15:19:05]

gbee:

lets start by what you want to do, are you planning to record from Terrestrial, Satellite, Cable, IPTV, an STB or other? Where do you live? Encrypted (with valid subscription) or Free to Air?

[15:19:13]

sphery:

feed_me_seymour: see the "Hardware Device Information" section of the linuxtv page I linked for capture cards

[15:19:17]

gbee:

feed_me_seymour: ^^

[15:19:45]

feed_me_seymour:

gbee: I currently have cable with subscription, but I'm looking at dropping that and just aiming to capture terrestrial HD.

[15:19:45]

sphery:

and, yeah, with the info gbee requested, we could give you more specific info

[15:19:52]

sphery:

in the US?

[15:19:57]

feed_me_seymour:

correct

[15:20:04]

sphery:

If so, look at http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/ATSC_Devices

[15:20:32]

feed_me_seymour:

ultimately, I want to use the device for terrestrial HD playback, blu-ray playback, and then streaming video from Netflix Instant and/or other content providers like NBC.com or Hulu.

[15:20:56]

sphery:

and, it's a great approach... Take the money you save on not paying for the 99.999% garbage they broadcast on cable and use it to buy DVD's or Blu-Rays of the shows you actually like from cable or use Netflix to rent them

[15:21:11]

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[15:21:14]

sphery:

You'll probably never get streaming video from NetFlix on a Linux box, though

[15:21:18]

feed_me_seymour:

sphery: absolutely, that's my entire aim is to invest in a good MythTV box so I can drop cable and save money in the long run.

[15:21:24]

feed_me_seymour:

sphery: I haven't checked that, yet. Is it ActiveX based?

[15:21:27]

sphery:

(save a Linux-based appliance)

[15:21:54]

sphery:

though I will say that the chances of saving money with MythTV are not necessarily high

[15:22:06]

sphery:

hardware will cost a lot--plus if you factor in time

[15:22:35]

sphery:

I think all the Netflix stuff is encrypted and requires special programs to decrypt, but I didn't pay a lot of attention because I don't have Netflix

[15:22:40]

feed_me_seymour:

sphery: Oh, the time is irrelevant, I love projects like this. I'm looking at spending around $400–600 depending on tuner cards and Blu-ray

[15:22:52]

sphery:

(at least as of a while ago) Roku is(was) probably the best bet for Netflix

[15:22:57]

sphery:

streaming stuff, that is

[15:23:08]

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[15:23:19]

feed_me_seymour:

Roku is analogous to MythTV?

[15:23:21]

sphery:

s/spending around $400–600/initially spending around $400–600/

[15:23:34]

feed_me_seymour:

sphery: oh hehe, what am I looking at down the road for hardware costs?

[15:23:36]

sphery:

Roku is a set-top box that does netflix streaming

[15:23:45]

feed_me_seymour:

sphery: Oh, that does ring a bell.

[15:23:58]

sphery:

http://www.roku.com/netflixplayer/

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[15:25:06]

sphery:

let's just say that my system grew from a single box with a single capture card and 250GB HDD doing standard def to it's current state--2 backend boxes with a total of 4 digital capture cards receiving OTA (HDTV) content and with 8.5TB of storage

[15:25:16]

sphery:

oh, and one dedicated frontend box

[15:25:31]

sphery:

so 3 boxes--costing me about $20-$30 in electricity to run them each month

[15:25:36]

sphery:

... it all adds up

[15:25:44]

jamesd2:

sphery, sounds like you watch a bit too much tv..

[15:25:47]

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[15:25:59]

feed_me_seymour:

sphery: Wow... well, as long as I stick to my plan, I guess within a year I'll be saving money, but yeah, I can see how you could get caught up in adding backends, especially.

[15:26:18]

gbee:

actually it sounds like he needs to combine those two backends into one

[15:26:34]

sphery:

mainly adding HDD (and with OTA, no STB cost, so adding more capture cards is easy)

[15:27:01]

feed_me_seymour:

Are ATSC PCI cards generally cross-compatible from OTA to Cable?

[15:27:31]

sphery:

gbee: yeah, to do that, I'd have to get all new capture cards (can't get clean power with more than 2 of my current ones in a host--regardless of size/quality of PSU) and would have to get some mega case for all the HDD's

[15:27:58]

Josh_Borke:

sphery: esata enclosure :)

[15:28:00]

sphery:

Really, the current approach is likely cheaper if I were to use the auto-shutdown capabilities for the remote backend

[15:28:00]

wagnerrp:

sphery: yeah, but most of that electrical use is because youre running BOINC rather than put them in standby

[15:28:23]

feed_me_seymour:

My wife doesn't want to switch yet because she's concerned about having 'something weird' for TV when friends come over. :/

[15:28:30]

sphery:

yeah, that too

[15:28:50]

sphery:

feed_me_seymour: just make sure the friends never get the remote and all is good :)

[15:28:51]

jamesd2:

sphery, do you really need multiple backends? if you just have a quad core cpu with enough IO on board to deal with your input cards.. my dual core box seems to handle 2x digital tv cards just fine

[15:29:00]

wagnerrp:

so leave a cablebox or antenna plugged into the tv for normal viewing use

[15:29:07]

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[15:29:09]

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[15:29:12]

sphery:

jamesd2: hard drives and power is the reason for 2 backends

[15:29:22]

Morder:

where can i find what sql privileges are required for the mythconverg db?

[15:29:32]

sphery:

I have 2 single-core Athlon XP systems for backends--no need for a quad core, even if I were to combine them (even single core would be fine)

[15:29:49]

sphery:

Morder: http://www.mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-6.html#ss6.2

[15:30:04]

sphery:

short answer is "ALL"

[15:30:06]

jamesd2:

sphery, its not hard to find a box that can have 4–6 harddrives,and with the cheap point in harddrives being 1.5TB.. that is a lot of tv storage..

[15:30:12]

Morder:

heh, thanks sphery :)

[15:30:44]

jamesd2:

sphery, i was considering transcoding multiple shows at once.

[15:30:54]

feed_me_seymour:

sphery: wait, did you say 8.5TB storage?

[15:31:01]

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[15:31:04]

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[15:31:08]

sphery:

jamesd2: I realize that, but if I really wanted to save power, I'd actually swap the mobo/cpu to something current that actually saves power and wouldn't run setiathome

[15:31:13]

wagnerrp:

feed_me_seymour: yes, and that doesnt even approach some other users in here

[15:31:37]

sphery:

feed_me_seymour: and I watch and delete everything, so I don't keep anything I've watched

[15:31:43]

sphery:

currently have about 7.3TB used

[15:31:47]

wagnerrp:

over 5TB is not uncommon for mythtv

[15:31:47]

sphery:

and all OTA

[15:31:52]

wagnerrp:

over 10TB is not unheard of

[15:31:59]

feed_me_seymour:

good lord.

[15:32:00]

wagnerrp:

and theres at least one person in here with over 20TB

[15:32:00]

sphery:

doesn't iamlindoro have 22TB

[15:32:02]

** josh_borke b lames HD **

[15:32:46]

feed_me_seymour:

so just so I can have an idea of what I'm looking at for storage, how much space does 1 hour of 720p or 1080p content generally take up?

[15:33:11]

iamlindoro:

6–8 Gb at most

[15:33:19]

wagnerrp:

feed_me_seymour: ATSC recordings are going to be somewhere between 12–18mbps

[15:33:24]

wagnerrp:

so maybe 4–7GB/hr

[15:33:29]

iamlindoro:

s/Gb/GB/

[15:33:30]

jamesd2:

i'm happy with 150GB of storage dedicated to hd tv, i wouldn't mind more... but no money to upgrade... i should try and see how well nfs and iscsi play with mythtv, my big fileserver is solaris and in the past linux nfs hasn't played well with solaris nfs.

[15:33:38]

sphery:

feed_me_seymour: the point is that a $6/mo DVR from your cable company is a lot cheaper. MythTV doesn't allow you to drop cable TV--your own willingness to drop cable TV and buy DVD's/Blu-Rays or use Netflix is what's allowing that

[15:33:45]

wagnerrp:

make that 5–8GB/hr

[15:34:05]

sphery:

feed_me_seymour: also, that $6/mo DVR likely takes about 40W, so more like $4/mo in electricity

[15:34:07]

wagnerrp:

if youre pulling broadcast tv off your cable provider, its going to tend to be on the low end

[15:34:11]

sphery:

Myth is all about the luxury DVR

[15:34:18]

sphery:

and luxury is /not/ cheap

[15:34:19]

feed_me_seymour:

sphery: Oh, certainly. It's a change in mindset entirely, which I'm fine with. All the shows that we watch on cable right now we can watch via terrestrial broadcast.

[15:34:38]

** iamlindoro sends sphery a bill for using his coined term, "luxury DVR" **

[15:34:40]

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[15:35:00]

sphery:

and if that's the case, even a TiVo may be cheaper than Myth--all depends on what you do in the future

[15:35:00]

iamlindoro:

has anyone seen Josh_Borke?

[15:35:02]

iamlindoro:

oh, he's gone

[15:35:07]

iamlindoro:

because I care so very much

[15:35:12]

feed_me_seymour:

sphery: and there are mini-ITX Atom/ION boards that can go a long way towards efficiency versus the ATX Intel Dual/Quad core boxes.

[15:35:18]

feed_me_seymour:

sphery: I imagine, at least...

[15:35:26]

fleers:

jamesd2: solaris and linux NFS play just fine together these days

[15:35:32]

sphery:

iamlindoro: I meant "luctury DVR"--it was a typo, so you can't charge me for a typo, right?

[15:35:43]

iamlindoro:

Rock solid, heart touching

[15:35:54]

sphery:

feed_me_seymour: yep, but I wanted a computer with a CPU, not a toy :)

[15:36:00]

feed_me_seymour:

That's one question I had, though, if any of the users here use any Atom/ION hardware and how well it works.

[15:36:05]

feed_me_seymour:

sphery: ;) understandable.

[15:36:23]

wagnerrp:

feed_me_seymour: generally only recommended for frontends

[15:36:28]

jamesd2:

fleers, okay i need to do some research, its been very bursty in the past and had to resort to using nfsv2 for permance

[15:36:32]

sphery:

many people are using that--those who believe the benefits (promises of power savings) outweigh all the disadvantages

[15:36:49]

wagnerrp:

jamesd2: does the linux kernel even support nfsv2?

[15:37:20]

jamesd2:

wagnerrp, yes it did at the time... i think it has to for backward compatibility.

[15:37:30]

sphery:

IMHO, a good Core 2 Duo/Athlon X2 with good power efficiency and a proper choice of mobo with proper power savings implemented is a /much/ better plan

[15:37:45]

wagnerrp:

nfsv3 is the 'old' version for backwards compatibilty

[15:37:48]

wagnerrp:

v4 is the new version

[15:37:49]

feed_me_seymour:

sphery: I'd tend to agree, plus it opens me up for a lot more hardware options.

[15:37:57]

sphery:

but then again, I'm not paying $0.31/kWh for electricity

[15:38:12]

wagnerrp:

i see options in configure for v3 and v4, but ive never seen anything for v2

[15:38:36]

sphery:

I think the v2 support comes with the v3, but I'm not positive

[15:38:55]

wagnerrp:

yeah... v3 came out 15 years ago

[15:38:56]

sphery:

it used to be separate (like v3 and v4, now), but once v3 became stable, they got mixed

[15:39:00]

feed_me_seymour:

sphery: are you in the US?

[15:39:02]

wagnerrp:

and is pretty much _mandatory_ for use with mythtv

[15:39:07]

sphery:

feed_me_seymour: yeah

[15:39:11]

wagnerrp:

considering nfsv2 doesnt support files over 2GB

[15:39:15]

jamesd2:

wagnerrp, i last tried nfs on linux a few years ago, back when linux was barely doing nfsv4

[15:39:24]

feed_me_seymour:

sphery: what's your preferred capture card for terrestrial broadcast?

[15:39:25]

sphery:

wow, that would make it useless with Myth :)

[15:40:18]

sphery:

I have 4 old ones that aren't on the market now. They're my preference only because I own them (and don't have to replace them). I wouldn't recommend them (or even the follow on) to anyone, though, because there are much less expensive ones out there

[15:40:42]

wagnerrp:

3000s?

[15:40:45]

sphery:

basically, though, when it comes to ATSC tuning (ignoring analog capture), there's not a lot of difference in cards

[15:41:38]

sphery:

if you want analog capture of standard definition, you either want PVR-150 or PVR-500 (for standard def analog only--no digital) or HVR-1600 (for standard def analog and digital SDTV or HDTV)

[15:42:21]

sphery:

since ATSC capture cards simply tune the signal dump the data (which Myth dumps to disk), there's not a lot of difference between those

[15:42:21]

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[15:42:23]

feed_me_seymour:

sphery: So the Hauppauge is a pretty solid card for digital OTA HD?

[15:42:29]

sphery:

wagnerrp: yeah, HD-3000's

[15:43:01]

sphery:

if you just want digital OTA HD, the HVR-1250 is a low-cost capture card that is well supported in GNU/Linux

[15:43:14]

sphery:

but don't even think about using the analog capture side of it :)

[15:44:12]

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[15:44:18]

feed_me_seymour:

sphery: wow, those are pretty reasonable.

[15:45:32]

feed_me_seymour:

sphery: now what about using something like the HVR-2250... will the dual tuner in that case save me a bit of space/money? Or is support with MythTV an issue?

[15:45:45]

wagnerrp:

the 2250 works just fine for digital

[15:45:48]

wagnerrp:

but not for analog

[15:46:02]

wagnerrp:

if youve got the slots, two separate tuners will be cheaper

[15:46:28]

feed_me_seymour:

wagnerrp: got it.. I'll have to evaluate what I end up using for my case/motherboard.

[15:47:11]

** sphery is glad wagnerrp knew the answer to that one **

[15:47:18]

wagnerrp:

individual digital tuners go for $40-$60, while last i checked the 2250 started at $130

[15:47:28]

feed_me_seymour:

yeah, Newegg has the 2250 for $120 right now.

[15:47:44]

wagnerrp:

now the 2250 gets you two hardware mpeg encoders, which are the recommended form of analog capture

[15:47:51]

wagnerrp:

but as mentioned, those are non-functional in linux

[15:47:52]

gbee:

perfectly good second hand tuners go for even less

[15:48:13]

feed_me_seymour:

I guess it depends on the individual price at the time as to which would be more economical. If it's cheaper to run two and the space is there, though, I'd rather replace one failed tuner if it comes up than a failed dual tuner

[15:48:42]

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[15:48:55]

gbee:

I landed most of my tuners for under £20 and one in particular for just £5

[15:48:58]

feed_me_seymour:

aaand two last questions, I promise... remote support in MythTV — the remotes that come with these cards generally work pretty well?

[15:49:11]

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[15:49:19]

devinheitmueller:

depends on the card

[15:49:25]

wagnerrp:

mythtv does not support and of them

[15:49:28]

wagnerrp:

they support LIRC

[15:49:31]

devinheitmueller:

On the 1250 and 2250, the RC support doesn't work with either.

[15:49:34]

wagnerrp:

and depend on LIRC to support the individual receivers

[15:49:42]

sphery:

and there's a man who knows capture cards and Linux :)

[15:49:46]

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[15:49:51]

devinheitmueller:

Oh wait, does the cx23885 have the IR support working? One sec....

[15:50:38]

** feed_me_seymour googles LIRC. **

[15:50:53]

devinheitmueller:

Yeah, the cx23885 does have IR support, but it's pretty new.

[15:51:08]

feed_me_seymour:

wagnerrp: ah, so LIRC would act as the intermediary between MythTV and the remote?

[15:51:16]

devinheitmueller:

(and I know Andy Walls had been debugging some issues with it)

[15:51:28]

gbee:

feed_me_seymour: precisely

[15:51:49]

wagnerrp:

correct, LIRC will access your IR receiver, and send events to any application connected to its daemon

[15:52:08]

** feed_me_seymour adds IR receiver to the list of necessary items. **

[15:52:17]

devinheitmueller:

There is also an inputdev interface which eliminates the need to use lirc with some of these cards, but it isn't really supported by MythTV.

[15:52:28]

gbee:

feed_me_seymour: many cards supplied with a remote include the IR receiver

[15:52:34]

devinheitmueller:

You should seriously consider just spending the $15 and picking up a separate MCE remote.

[15:52:35]

feed_me_seymour:

gbee: oh, good.

[15:52:50]

sphery:

many users swear by the MCE remote

[15:52:57]

devinheitmueller:

*All* cards supplied with a remote include the IR receiver. However, whether the IR receiver actually works depends on the driver support.

[15:52:58]

feed_me_seymour:

which MCE remote are you referring to?

[15:53:07]

** sphery swears at his ATI RW half the time **

[15:53:23]

gbee:

feed_me_seymour: as devinheitmueller just noted, the MCE remote + receiver, which are available separately are fantastic, superior to anything I've ever seen supplied with a card

[15:53:28]

feed_me_seymour:

oh

[15:53:30]

wagnerrp:

feed_me_seymour: the one with a pair of ports for IR blasters on the back of the receiver

[15:53:31]

sphery:

RF remote, but the signals aren't super reliable--especially with lots of people in the room

[15:53:35]

feed_me_seymour:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MCE_Remote

[15:53:37]

feed_me_seymour:

found it

[15:54:20]

devinheitmueller:

The onboard IR support for the tuner cards is improving, albeit slowly. If your goal is to minimize setup/debugging time, just stick with an MCE remote.

[15:54:28]

feed_me_seymour:

MCE remote it is

[15:54:56]

gbee:

feed_me_seymour: IMHO you want the second or third in the picture array

[15:55:29]

feed_me_seymour:

ah, brb

[15:55:33]

feed_me_seymour:

impromptu meeting

[15:55:37]

feed_me_seymour:

thanks guys, I'll return shortly.

[15:55:50]

gbee:

I have the second and it's a very nice remote, has all the buttons you'd want for controlling a mythtv box, includes backlit buttons and is more ergonomic than any other remote I've ever owned

[15:57:02]

gbee:

beautiful piece of design, remotes are something which have been around for decades and yet most companies still get them wrong

[15:57:37]

gbee:

so props to MS for commissioning something which bucks the trend

[16:02:33]

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[16:05:47]

sphery:

iamlindoro: btw, did you get http://abctvstore.seenon.com/detail.php?p=255 . . . 10_lostparty , yet?

[16:06:02]

sphery:

if not, it's a bit too late... :(

[16:09:13]

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[16:11:23]

FR^2:

Where is that mystic plugin to enhance the quality of the TV program? I'm bored and on none of the TV channels there's anything I'm interested in ;)

[16:11:25]

iamlindoro:

nope, didn't see... heh, "balloon."

[16:13:08]

sphery:

iamlindoro: guess you'll just have to get out the inkscape and printer...

[16:13:45]

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[16:14:11]

iamlindoro:

Indeed-- had considered having friends over tonight to watch it on the "big 106"

[16:14:12]

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[16:14:34]

iamlindoro:

mkrufky is invited, of course ;)

[16:15:49]

** sphery feels left out **

[16:16:00]

iamlindoro:

ok, ok, you can come too

[16:17:25]

pheld:

I've got a SD-channel that kills myth when it switches to regional news. It

[16:17:34]

wagnerrp:

just make sure to bring a snack, preferably home cooked and still warm

[16:18:26]

pheld:

the broadcaster seems to be switching to a separate mpeg stream directly, so myth encounters EOF

[16:18:50]

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[16:19:25]

pheld:

when recording, the backend simply stops. When watching live the frontend also crashes

[16:20:39]

feed_me_seymour:

back! joy

[16:20:50]

pheld:

the broadcast has been this way for ages (seen with mplayer/me-tv and other apps stopping at EOF), but myth has handled it gracefully until recently

[16:22:16]

feed_me_seymour:

sphery: since you're a US OTA user, are there any specific considerations I need to make when selecting a digital antenna or box? I haven't used broadcast TV since at least 1992ish. :X

[16:22:58]

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[16:23:49]

sphery:

basically check to see if you need both VHF and UHF capability (at antennaweb.org or tvfool.com) and note that there's no such thing as a "high definition" antenna (the same 1952 antenna works great today)

[16:23:54]

sphery:

feed_me_seymour: ^^^

[16:26:37]

feed_me_seymour:

sphery: done, looks like 7 stations: 3 yellow UHF, 1 red UHF, 2 red VHF and 1 violet UHF.

[16:27:28]

sphery:

if you want the VHF, you'll need one of the super long antennas... UHF can be received with a much smaller Yagi or whatever

[16:27:54]

sphery:

I have a 16' long VHF/UHF antenna threaded between the trusses in my attic

[16:27:56]

feed_me_seymour:

sphery: bah, I'll need VHF to get ABC and CBS.

[16:28:24]

sphery:

in attic is nice because it's protected from wind damage

[16:28:33]

feed_me_seymour:

sphery: so the "red VHF" should serve to receive both red UHF and all yellow?

[16:28:39]

sphery:

(well, if it's damaged by the wind, the antenna will be the least of your concerns)

[16:28:55]

pheld:

is swithing directly from the output of one encoder to another proper for broadcast?

[16:29:08]

feed_me_seymour:

I'm in a townhouse with attic space, and I'm on the coastal plain, so that'll probably be my best bet.

[16:29:16]

fleers:

regarding the MCE remote mentioned earlier, I have one that came with my zallman case, the receiver is integrated into the front panel LCD. That machine is now a dedicated BE in a different room. I'd like to use this remote on my new ION ITX FE, is there a standalone receiver (USB?) that would work with this remote. The remote is the v2 1039 here http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MCE_Remote

[16:29:22]

sphery:

TTBOMK, VHF TV antennae always come with UHF antenna on the front

[16:29:37]

sphery:

(the Y shape on the front of a long TV antenna)

[16:30:18]

feed_me_seymour:

sphery: aha, got it... sounds like I need a Medium Directional that would effectively take care of my needs.

[16:30:38]

wagnerrp:

16 feet?

[16:30:38]

sphery:

but just make sure it says UHF/VHF--it's easy to buy a UHF-only antenna (which are often marked as "High Definition" antennae because the original idea was that the HDTV channels would all move to UHF freqs and you wouldn't need a VHF antenna for HDTV

[16:30:42]

sphery:

but that's not the case

[16:30:44]

wagnerrp:

thats a big ass antenna

[16:30:51]

sphery:

wagnerrp: something like that

[16:30:54]

feed_me_seymour:

sphery: I don't care about the violet UHF channel as it's some local broadcast in the opposite direction the rest of the broadcasts.

[16:30:56]

sphery:

it's the Terk TV-38

[16:31:12]

sphery:

oh, yeah, realize that you'll have about an 8deg sweet spot

[16:31:36]

sphery:

anything outside that 8-degree direction will be much lower quality (assuming you get a directional antenna)

[16:31:47]

sphery:

I'm lucky--all mine are within 3deg of each other from my house

[16:32:02]

sphery:

(very far away, but all in a line)

[16:32:49]

feed_me_seymour:

If I got a Medium Directional UHF/VHF combo antenna, is the UHF portion omnidrectional?

[16:33:03]

fleers:

i wonder if my ATI remote wonder USB receiver dongle will work with the MCE remote ….?

[16:33:24]

wagnerrp:

fleers: likely not

[16:33:34]

wagnerrp:

absolutely not if its one of the RF remote wonders

[16:34:11]

fleers:

yeah, it's RF wagnerrp

[16:34:32]

wagnerrp:

RF receivers do not work with IR remotes

[16:35:18]

sphery:

fleers: it will work with teh ATI remote wonder remote, though

[16:35:37]

sphery:

(within the limits of the defition of "work"--as modified for the RW)

[16:36:07]

jams:

sphery- thats true..but that remote is awful

[16:36:25]

jams:

or awesome if you like really really mushy buttons

[16:36:37]

fleers:

ah, a basic flaw in my logic … thx

[16:37:14]

fleers:

i'll hunt around for a standalone IR receiver for the MCE remote

[16:37:37]

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[16:37:43]

sphery:

jams: yeah, awful--but until I can find myself a good RF remote that works like that (rather than sending RF to an IR repeater, which is annoying), I'm sticking with my RW

[16:38:20]

sphery:

mushy buttons that have to be pressed /really/ hard, too

[16:38:34]

jams:

yep

[16:38:46]

jams:

even the ati clones are like that

[16:39:59]

sphery:

I have a Lola X10, but never really used it, so didn't know if it was the same (but it had far fewer buttons, so I'm using the RW)

[16:40:55]

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[16:44:27]

feed_me_seymour:

I never considered the antenna selection was going to be so critical. :| duh

[16:44:43]

feed_me_seymour:

My issue isn't reflection in this area as much as it is distance.

[16:45:42]

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[16:56:17]

justinh:

sphery: Yay! :-D

[16:57:00]

feed_me_seymour:

Aw crap, is the HVR-1250 PCIe only?

[16:57:11]

devinheitmueller:

Yes

[16:57:15]

devinheitmueller:

The 1250 is a PCIe card.

[16:57:36]

wagnerrp:

kworld makes some inexpensive PCI tuners

[16:57:46]

feed_me_seymour:

I haven't purchased a motherboard in some time... are multiple PCIe card slots common now?

[16:57:51]

wagnerrp:

and you can occasionally find a 800i on sale for <$30

[16:57:55]

wagnerrp:

yes

[16:58:04]

feed_me_seymour:

oh... okay, maybe not so bad then.

[16:58:06]

devinheitmueller:

The 800i is pretty good – that's what I use in my production MythTV box.

[16:58:24]

wagnerrp:

but the card is no longer in production, and usually retails for $70-$80

[16:59:34]

devinheitmueller:

Yeah, it got discontinued very recently.

[16:59:37]

** jamesd2 likes his kworld 115's ... just need to setup firmware and configure for multiple cards (at least in my use) has a great picture. **

[16:59:43]

elmojo:

I have 2 800i cards in production and they rock

[17:01:29]

devinheitmueller:

I've got some changes in the pipeline that should improve clearqam on that card, but I haven't had a chance to push them out yet.

[17:02:40]

elmojo:

cool... looks like I'm about to dump cable and go strictly ATSC

[17:03:41]

elmojo:

TWC here wants $17/month for broadcast cable.. which is exactly what I get OTA anyways

[17:03:49]

mkrufky1:

...joining this conversation late... would i be reading into things if i guess people were frustrated that Hauppauge doesnt make a good ATSC board that fits into PCI?

[17:04:05]

mkrufky1:

... cuz there is the HVR1600 , and it works really well nowadays, with the latest driver

[17:04:20]

mkrufky1:

and there is also the HVR-1150 ... a new PCI board, based on the saa713x

[17:04:42]

mkrufky1:

and I added linux support for that board before Hauppauge even started production on it ;-)

[17:05:06]

elmojo:

nice

[17:05:25]

wagnerrp:

well the conversation was more about inexpensive tuners... the 1600 doesnt really fit that bill

[17:06:37]

elmojo:

this is the first I've heard of the HVR-1150

[17:06:57]

iamlindoro:

mkrufky, I've decided that the easiest way to figure out how good a linux driver is "would mkrufky record lost on this if he had only one tuner" ;)

[17:07:02]

sphery:

justinh: Guess you're off the hook for those, now :) But, thanks, again for all the time/effort. http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/421562#421562

[17:07:05]

elmojo:

mkrufky1: does the 1150 support simultaneous analog and digital capture?

[17:07:18]

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[17:07:34]

wagnerrp:

elmojo: considering its probably a framegrabber, you wouldnt want to use analog

[17:08:02]

mkrufky1:

elmojo: no .. .then you want the HVR1600 ... thats a PCI board that supports simultaneous analog / digital capture

[17:08:03]

elmojo:

yes, you're right

[17:08:07]

wagnerrp:

better to pick up a 1600, or an old 150

[17:08:22]

mkrufky1:

150 doesnt support digital, and its no longer available in retail

[17:08:40]

elmojo:

mkrufky1: I was about to ask about the 1600 ;)

[17:09:30]

wagnerrp:

i mean if you wanted something for analog use (for mythtv), theres no point in ever suggesting a framegrabber

[17:09:46]

wagnerrp:

even if it came basically for free on a digital tuner

[17:09:59]

mkrufky1:

i dont think this is the place for opinions

[17:10:04]

mkrufky1:

he asked about a board

[17:10:06]

mkrufky1:

:-)

[17:10:19]

mkrufky1:

personally, analog is for LIVE TV ONLY, so i like my framegrabbers for that purpose

[17:10:30]

mkrufky1:

for recording, if it has to be analog, it should be an mpeg encoder

[17:10:32]

mkrufky1:

however:

[17:10:39]

sphery:

mkrufky1: /you/ must have gotten yours, right: http://abctvstore.seenon.com/detail.php?p=255 . . . 10_lostparty . iamlindoro didn't.

[17:10:50]

wagnerrp:

myth has no 'live tv', its all recordings

[17:10:51]

mkrufky1:

in my case, if its not available in digital, then i shouldnt be recording it in mythtv to begin with

[17:10:53]

iamlindoro:

oh great, rat me out

[17:11:14]

sphery:

hey, a real fan would have gotten one

[17:11:25]

** sphery doesn't saw whether he actually got one or not **

[17:11:26]

mkrufky1:

lol, nice, sphe

[17:11:29]

mkrufky1:

sphery:

[17:11:37]

mkrufky1:

i dont have one

[17:11:43]

devinheitmueller:

mkrufky I don't think the 1150 is shipping yet, is it?

[17:11:47]

iamlindoro:

yeah, he doesn't have one, sucka

[17:11:55]

mkrufky1:

1150 is shipping and has been for a few weeks

[17:12:04]

mkrufky1:

i think you have to order it from hauppauge.com

[17:12:17]

mkrufky1:

oh, and use the LATEST KERNELLABS driver with it

[17:12:28]

mkrufky1:

(or latest LINUXTV driver)

[17:12:42]

devinheitmueller:

Yeah, I don't see the 1150 on newegg.com

[17:12:44]

J-e-f-f-A:

Ooh, final series starts tonight... so they're going to be FOUND?!? ;-)

[17:12:53]

iamlindoro:

http://hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hvr1150.html It looks like a delicious tortilla chip

[17:12:54]

mkrufky1:

J-e-f-f-A: they all die

[17:13:02]

** J-e-f-f-A laughs! **

[17:13:09]

devinheitmueller:

Oh, but the 800i wasn't discontinued. It was just renamed.

[17:13:12]

devinheitmueller:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815116043

[17:13:30]

sphery:

Hurley wakes up and realizes it's just a dream.

[17:13:38]

iamlindoro:

and JR is fine?

[17:13:49]

sphery:

exactly

[17:13:59]

mkrufky1:

Hurley has has good luck even since he came back from his visit to Australia

[17:14:15]

sphery:

because Hurley isn't fighting the rules!

[17:14:21]

feed_me_seymour:

devinheitmueller: good card?

[17:14:30]

devinheitmueller:

The 800i, yeah, I like it.

[17:14:35]

devinheitmueller:

(see the notes above)

[17:14:54]

iamlindoro:

nom nom, yummy Guinness cupcakes

[17:15:20]

devinheitmueller:

Again, like the 1150 it doesn't have an onboard MPEG encoder, but if you only care about ATSC/ClearQAM then it's a good choice.

[17:15:25]

mkrufky1:

sphery: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlhkqAwEgvQ

[17:15:37]

J-e-f-f-A:

iamlindoro: "Guiness" cupcakes? ;-)

[17:15:46]

mkrufky1:

(dont watch this unless you're up to date on LOST thru season 5 finale) ^^^

[17:15:53]

iamlindoro:

nope, Guinness.

[17:16:03]

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[17:16:10]

feed_me_seymour:

devinheitmueller: I'm just getting into this... the distinction is ATSC/ClearQAM is unencoded OTA or cable, and NTSC is subscriber cable?

[17:16:34]

sphery:

mkrufky1: heh, just $4.42

[17:16:47]

devinheitmueller:

ATSC is "over the air digital". ClearQAM is "unencrypted digital cable" and NTSC is "analog cable"

[17:16:56]

J-e-f-f-A:

iamlindoro: yeah, that's what I meant... from Guinness Beer... ;-)

[17:17:22]

anykey_:

wagnerrp: FYI, mythwelcome is indeed receiving the LIRC events even when the frontend is running.

[17:17:36]

iamlindoro:

J-e-f-f-A, nope, from Guinness Stout ;)

[17:17:49]

feed_me_seymour:

devinheitmueller: ah, okay. So if I'm a current cable subscriber using a DVR box in the US, assuming I want to keep using the same subscriber cable, what format(s) am I going to be concerned about? ClearQAM?

[17:17:52]

wagnerrp:

anykey_: yes, but it should be ignoring the keypresses

[17:18:03]

anykey_:

wagnerrp: it doesn't

[17:18:30]

wagnerrp:

feed_me_seymour: clearqam is not likely to be more than your current broadcast lineup

[17:18:42]

feed_me_seymour:

wagnerrp: Okay, thanks. :)

[17:18:48]

wagnerrp:

silicondust maintains clearqam channel lineups, searchable by zip code

[17:18:55]

devinheitmueller:

Well, ClearQAM will let you get all the unencrypted digital channels. But if you want to receive the subscriber channels that are encrypted, you would either need to use the analog output on the cable box (with no HD support), or buy an HD-PVR.

[17:18:58]

wagnerrp:

to give you an idea of what you can tune directly

[17:19:49]

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[17:19:50]

sphery:

are they doing pop-up-video LOST episodes this season? If so, I need to fix my recording rules to record those, too

[17:20:30]

justinh:

sphery: saw the tribute, stopped by to thank you :)

[17:20:34]

wagnerrp:

you need the pop-up versions to explain what is actually going on?

[17:20:58]

sphery:

wagnerrp: I need the pop-up versions to explain the little things I missed

[17:21:27]

sphery:

some of us don't make time to analyse LOST episodes frame-by-frame...

[17:21:34]

J-e-f-f-A:

iamlindoro: reminds me of Onion Rings here – most often made with a Beer batter...

[17:21:39]

iamlindoro:

sphery, if only you were one of those people who doesn't miss details

[17:21:49]

iamlindoro:

if only we had someone like that in this channel

[17:22:09]

iamlindoro:

oh wait, I threw him out

[17:22:24]

iamlindoro:

and just look how civil the channel has been of late

[17:22:29]

sphery:

lol

[17:23:26]

mkrufky1:

sorry i was afk

[17:23:35]

mkrufky1:

and yes, they're doing the stupid popups again this year

[17:23:46]

mkrufky1:

they played THE INCIDENT last week with popups

[17:24:00]

iamlindoro:

mkrufky, thought you liked the popups?

[17:24:04]

mkrufky1:

and now we know the statue represents the god TAWORET

[17:24:14]

mkrufky1:

and the god ATEN is featured in the tapestry

[17:24:17]

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[17:24:19]

sphery:

heh, cool... I'm guessing the right-before the new episode

[17:24:25]

mkrufky1:

and i dont actually LIKE the popups... i think they're annoying

[17:24:26]

mkrufky1:

but...

[17:24:36]

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[17:24:36]

sphery:

I watch without, then with

[17:24:39]

mkrufky1:

im not about to let LOST content be consumed by people and not me

[17:24:45]

sphery:

annoying if it's the first time, good for the "what did I miss"

[17:24:49]

mkrufky1:

me too, sphe

[17:24:49]

iamlindoro:

heh

[17:25:19]

** iamlindoro expects to see lots of dearly departed friends tonight **

[17:25:50]

sphery:

yeah, I got The Incident--wasn't too concerned about the initial episodes because they break the 2-hr specials up for the repeats, so I knew I'd get them

[17:26:25]

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[17:26:28]

sphery:

and now I know that they have pop-ups, so I'll set up a "not new, this channel, no dup matching" to get the others

[17:27:38]

sphery:

wonder if the DVD's have the popups available in a subtitle track... Since it's all bitmaps, they could do that...

[17:29:07]

sphery:

heh, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVOZXNHVPH8&feature=channel

[17:29:27]

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[17:37:35]

sphery:

nice, some thief put the first hour of tonight's preview online, and the majority of fans are refusing to watch it--choosing to wait for the legitimate airing

[17:38:07]

sphery:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_d . . . d77a6e4b2d74

[17:38:12]

iamlindoro:

which just goes to show that LOST fans are more ethical than the average linux media center user ;)

[17:39:17]

elmojo:

iamlindoro: is the 106" projector your primary display?

[17:39:29]

sphery:

heh, yeah

[17:39:50]

iamlindoro:

it's the living room display, upstairs (where I do dev stuff) is a 32" 720p display and a 1080p 24" display

[17:40:22]

wagnerrp:

1080p or WUXGA?

[17:40:29]

iamlindoro:

1080p

[17:40:48]

wagnerrp:

i thought those were usually slightly smaller

[17:41:01]

mkrufky1:

who wants to see a cell phone video capture of LA X anyway?>

[17:41:08]

** iamlindoro just works here **

[17:41:13]

mkrufky1:

this HD snob will wait another 4 hours for HD+5.1

[17:41:44]

iamlindoro:

yep

[17:41:58]

iamlindoro:

I intend to watch this at a 32 minute delay (to avoid commercials) and on the big screen

[17:42:35]

sphery:

what a cam capture of a 12,000-fan airing shrunk to YouTube size/quality isn't good enough for you?

[17:45:30]

anykey_:

wagnerrp: I don't see where mythwelcome would ignore LIRC keypresses

[17:47:03]

feed_me_seymour:

sphery: Whee, just priced out a total system through Newegg... Intel dual core 2.93Ghz, 4GB RAM, onboard Geforce 9300 w/ HDMI out, 1TB HDD, blu-ray drive... came to $714.46 after shipping.

[17:47:23]

wagnerrp:

feed_me_seymour: why a bluray drive?

[17:47:53]

feed_me_seymour:

wagnerrp: I don't have one otherwise? :D I figure it's the next generation media, I might as well get with the times.

[17:48:10]

wagnerrp:

but there is no playback and very little use from within linux

[17:48:24]

feed_me_seymour:

wagnerrp: hmm... i hadn't really considered that.

[17:48:30]

wagnerrp:

your best option is a VM running windows and a copy of AnyDVD HD

[17:51:00]

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[17:51:48]

feed_me_seymour:

That's before the antenna, remote and wireless input devices (keyboard, airmouse, wiimote, whatever)

[17:52:36]

wagnerrp:

a 2.93 core2 is overkill for anything but HDPVR recordings

[17:52:45]

wagnerrp:

but its probably underpowered for bluray playback

[17:53:31]

feed_me_seymour:

wagnerrp: It was the least expensive Core2 LGA775 available, though I haven't looked at other outlets.

[17:53:57]

wagnerrp:

oh? i guess theyre phasing those out

[17:56:53]

brfransen:

I am running trunk (23403) and have myth set to automatically skip comms. After a comm skip if I press SKIPCOMMBACK within about 3 secs of the skip it jumps to about 2–3 secs before the beginning of the comm and then plays for the 2–3 secs and then jumps to skip the comm again. In .22-fixes when I would SKIPCOMMBACK it would jump to the beginning of the commercial and not skip forward again but play through the commercial. Do

[17:56:53]

brfransen:

have a setting set wrong or is this a bug?

[17:57:41]

sphery:

sounds like a broken seek table

[17:57:56]

sphery:

there have been some mentions of seek table building irregularities with trunk

[17:59:43]

feed_me_seymour:

wagnerrp: I keep thinking about an Atom/ION board like Zotac, but I just worry about playback on a combo front/backend

[18:00:27]

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[18:00:36]

c4t3l:

hello world

[18:00:36]

sphery:

iamlindoro / mkrufky1: So, after much reflection, I've come to the conclusion that the only logical start to tonight's premiere is for them to show "the incident" in 1969, then zoom out for full effect, then (when things settle), zoom back in--at which point you see a groundhog pop his head out of the hole, see his shadow, then snow starts to fall... Just haven't figured out whether it's "regular winter" snow or "the other kind ...

[18:00:40]

wagnerrp:

im of the opinion neither an Atom nor an ION has any business as a backend

[18:00:42]

sphery:

... of winter" snow. (Left out specific words so I don't spoil last season's finale for any who haven't seen it.)

[18:01:05]

brfransen:

sphery: this is happens on every recording that I have tried, at least 10+

[18:01:16]

feed_me_seymour:

ah, well... I'll talk to my wife and see if she's even interested in such a solution. She wasn't crazy about the idea of some newfangled Linux something something something and then she tuned me out.

[18:01:21]

sphery:

brfransen: including old recordings from 0.22-fixes or before?

[18:01:33]

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[18:01:37]

sphery:

if it is a problem with seektable generation, it would occur on all new ones

[18:01:40]

feed_me_seymour:

Thanks, everyone, for the insights though. :)

[18:01:41]

brfransen:

sphery: yes old and new

[18:01:45]

sphery:

(or old ones for which you rebuild the seektable)

[18:02:30]

sphery:

in that case, I'd recommend asking Captain_Murdoch... I don't remember any specific changes to make it jump to a few seconds before the comm start, but he may remember better.

[18:02:43]

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[18:03:27]

jokajak:

feed_me_seymour: best of luck

[18:03:55]

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[18:09:00]

brfransen:

one more interesting thing is if I let it play about 10 sec after the comm skip and then press SKIPCOMMBACK twice it will play through the comm and not skip.

[18:09:13]

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[18:16:52]

** skd5aner has now jumped in the VPDAU pool, and the water's just fine ;) **

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[18:35:55]

bjd:

having a brainspaz

[18:36:04]

bjd:

whats the script to rebuild the seektable?

[18:36:10]

medwards:

is there an advanced scheduling option that will let me record a single of every unique episode of a given show?

[18:36:27]

wagnerrp:

there is no script, however that functionality is built into mythcommflag and mythtranscode

[18:36:36]

bjd:

commflag is the one

[18:36:37]

bjd:

ta

[18:36:44]

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[18:36:48]

wagnerrp:

medwards: thats the default recording behavior

[18:36:57]

wagnerrp:

mythtv will not record a show it has already recorded once

[18:37:03]

wagnerrp:

unless you specifically tell it to

[18:37:37]

wagnerrp:

there are additional options to filter out generic episodes, or only record first airings

[18:37:46]

medwards:

ohh..

[18:38:06]

medwards:

so if I just selected 'all' it wouldn't *actually* record all

[18:38:48]

wagnerrp:

it would record one copy of every episode it finds

[18:38:53]

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[18:38:57]

wagnerrp:

along with ever generic episode it finds

[18:39:06]

medwards:

right, generic being ones without descriptions right?

[18:39:14]

wagnerrp:

generic episode being one with no subtitle, or episodeid given

[18:39:20]

medwards:

k

[18:39:23]

medwards:

that perfect

[18:40:48]

medwards:

I have some questions about how scheduling conflicts get handled then... it's possible that I say choose to record enough movies in a given week that I can conflict with every given instance of an episode... I could probably just prioritise this rule, but if the scheduling priorities were the same, would I get a conflict warning?

[18:41:32]

medwards:

(if that makes sense, I read that broader rule sets can automatically figure out ways to avoid conflicts. I'm basically asking what happens if I force a conflict)

[18:41:32]

wagnerrp:

if you look in the upcoming recordings screen, it will list scheduling conflicts

[18:41:51]

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[18:41:55]

wagnerrp:

mythtv will automatically record the higher priority show when there is a conflict

[18:42:01]

TauPan:

I *think* that myth always picks a favorite, i.e. there are no ties.

[18:42:35]

wagnerrp:

in the event of a tie, i think it just picks the rule with the numerically smaller id in the database

[18:43:00]

medwards:

that would make sense. It looked like it picked whichever started first which might be the same thing.

[18:43:21]

medwards:

yeah I suppose a higher priority rule will work fine

[18:43:35]

medwards:

I just don't like fiddling with priorities because my priorities can change :P

[18:43:43]

wagnerrp:

if it hits a higher priority rule, i believe it will cancel the first recording part-way through

[18:43:59]

wagnerrp:

the best option for conflict resolution is always to just buy more tuners

[18:44:09]

wagnerrp:

we suggest throwing money at the problem

[18:44:21]

medwards:

either way this is going to be waaaaaay better than what I was doing so I'm satisfied :P

[18:44:32]

TauPan:

at some point you will run out of time to watch all those shows

[18:44:47]

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[18:44:57]

wagnerrp:

which point you just throw more money at the problem, in the form of hard drives

[18:45:02]

wagnerrp:

store up content for the off season

[18:45:40]

wagnerrp:

one of the devs here has several terabytes of recordings, and watches shows with a 1–2yr lag

[18:46:00]

medwards:

lol

[18:46:01]

Josh_Borke`gone is now known as josh_borke

[18:52:03]

medwards:

wagnerrp: does higher or lower give priority?

[18:52:54]

justinh:

bigger means higher priority

[18:53:11]

justinh:

or maybe "more positive" means higher

[18:53:11]

sphery:

(and that 1–2yr lag is ever growing ;)

[18:53:57]

justinh:

wonder who would logically assume lower numbers mean *greater* priority :-\

[18:54:25]

devinheitmueller:

justinh: Well, have you ever heard that "priority #1 is to do such and such"?

[18:54:31]

sphery:

justinh: US Air Force officials

[18:54:56]

justinh:

hmmm. not something I ever pay any attention to though

[18:54:56]

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[18:55:12]

sphery:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEFCON

[18:56:01]

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[18:56:19]

mkrufky1:

i was AFK, but... i like it, sphery ... i has suspiscions of a groundhog day joke too

[18:56:27]

mkrufky1:

suspicions

[18:56:45]

sphery:

we'll know soon enough

[18:57:04]

mkrufky1:

3 hours

[18:57:13]

mkrufky1:

omg its six o clock!

[18:57:17]

Captain_Murdoch:

brfransen, sphery, I think 21045 and/or 21046 may have something to do with that. brfransen if you compile from source, can you edit libs/libmythtv/NuppelVideoPlayer.cpp and search for NuppelVideoPlayer::AutoCommercialSkip. look down a few lines and change the 2's in that if statement to 3's or 4's. it looks like it will autoskip the commercial again if it skipped back to 2 seconds before the commercial. this is just a th

[18:57:17]

Captain_Murdoch:

eory. when you hit skip back twice when you are 10 seconds after the skip, you're hitting slightly different code in some places so that may be why it works there.

[18:57:19]

mkrufky1:

i get to leave soon... im on LOST leave

[19:01:43]

skd5aner:

well, Nice numbers – lower the number, higher the priority

[19:02:00]

justinh:

if you're disappointed by the new season & its finale do you get to make up all the LOST time too?

[19:02:06]

medwards:

see, I'm not crazy. I justneeded to know.

[19:02:54]

justinh:

personally I think lower numbers to mean higher priority would be crazy. Especially if it was changed :)

[19:03:28]

skd5aner:

I never understood why "-20" meant a higher priority than "0" or "1" or "20", but hey... people like to count from 0 too so :P

[19:03:50]

justinh:

does it? I always thought the more positive, the higher it was

[19:04:03]

skd5aner:

for nice?

[19:04:09]

justinh:

haha no

[19:04:25]

justinh:

I thought this was about recording priorities. LOL

[19:04:38]

sphery:

but nice is how nice the process is to others, not priority

[19:04:40]

skd5aner:

haha – indeed ;) just saying, sometimes logic does not prevail :)

[19:04:53]

sphery:

If someone told me I'm -20 nice, I'd be upset

[19:05:06]

sphery:

now 19 nice, I'd take as a compliment

[19:05:07]

skd5aner:

sphery: whatever – still a bit counter-intuitive, but I do like the way you put it

[19:05:07]

justinh:

sometimes logic doesn't apply. I mean look at 'video sources'

[19:05:30]

skd5aner:

justinh: agreed, haha

[19:05:47]

justinh:

then there's logic that just won't work across borders

[19:06:05]

sphery:

logic without borders...

[19:06:09]

skd5aner:

sphery: would be a cool feature if we could actually "nice" community members ;)

[19:06:15]

sphery:

is that some humanitarian IT program?

[19:06:23]

skd5aner:

Doctors without Borders

[19:06:25]

sphery:

skd5aner: heh

[19:07:04]

justinh:

my niceness is inversely proportional to the number of commits I make

[19:07:12]

skd5aner:

justinh: sometime those borders are closer than you think, like your next door neighbor

[19:07:38]

justinh:

not deliberate mind.. just the way it turns out

[19:07:40]

sphery:

justinh: it's not the commits that get me--it's the complaints after the fact :)

[19:07:47]

justinh:

lol

[19:08:02]

skd5aner:

commits breed comments

[19:08:13]

skd5aner:

+/-

[19:08:17]

ablyss:

in general, how many tvs could i hook up to one 100 foot coaxial drop that is receiving clear Qam w/out loosing signal quality.

[19:08:17]

justinh:

how very dare anybody improve anything

[19:08:23]

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[19:08:31]

malocite:

AAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[19:08:36]

justinh:

ablyss: completely depends on the original signal

[19:08:37]

skd5aner:

ablyss: It depends?

[19:08:44]

malocite:

I just came home and my entire videos folder is empty....

[19:08:48]

iamlindoro:

justinh, given the number of people to whom *any* change is a horrible affront...

[19:08:50]

justinh:

and cable/connector quality...

[19:08:52]

malocite:

thank you hellanzb

[19:09:06]

skd5aner:

I mean, it's well over 100ft from the pole to the DMARC on my house, so...

[19:09:08]

iamlindoro:

serves you right for stealing video from usenet

[19:09:23]

ablyss:

say the tower is roughly 50 feet from my antenna and all the coax connectors are ok

[19:09:24]

iamlindoro:

and on that note, we don't take kindly to mentions of that kind of thing here

[19:09:30]

sphery:

iamlindoro: and yet those same "leave it the way it is" people would refuse to continue using the old version

[19:09:35]

malocite:

iamlindoro: nonono you don't understand... I was TRYING to steal video from usenet but hellanzb had better ideas

[19:09:38]

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[19:09:39]

sphery:

(save one, who's still on 0.18.1)

[19:09:49]

iamlindoro:

malocite, good, you deserve to lose your videos then

[19:09:49]

brfransen:

Captain_Murdoch: I will give that a shot tomorrow and let you know. Thanks.

[19:10:02]

Captain_Murdoch:

ok, thanks

[19:10:02]

iamlindoro:

malocite, mention it again and you'll lose your channel privileges too

[19:10:06]

afm:

greetings all. running a macmini/hdpvr/mythbuntu. I have spdif passtru working via pulseaudio, and channel changing work s via firewire, though i would like to use the hdpvr remote and have it translate to the 6200ch... any links of help?

[19:11:02]

skd5aner:

OMG, sphery killed Project Grayhem, YOU BASTARD!

[19:11:31]

skd5aner:

</Kyle>

[19:11:36]

ablyss:

reason i'm aksing is i have a friend who wants three tvs connected to his clear qam antenna. right now only one is connected and the signal is pretty good ( 3 out of 5 bars ) I didn't know if there is a rule of thumb to work under

[19:12:09]

sphery:

skd5aner: I at least gave it a very nice funeral...

[19:12:14]

skd5aner:

afm: I think there's info on the wiki

[19:12:14]

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[19:12:17]

iamlindoro:

irish wake

[19:12:44]

sphery:

Scottish, for me, so to speak

[19:12:45]

skd5aner:

mmmm, good idea!

[19:13:19]

iamlindoro:

now that he's gone, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH for losing all your videos when you tried to steal

[19:13:29]

iamlindoro:

The Karma initiative

[19:13:32]

sphery:

http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/421562#421562

[19:13:37]

sphery:

iamlindoro: +1

[19:13:52]

sphery:

too bad there's not a real cost to his losing them

[19:14:11]

skd5aner:

ablyss: it's really hard to say how much you can split, it depends on the -dB loss of the splitter, the original strength, it's just really hard

[19:14:15]

skd5aner:

to say

[19:14:27]

justinh:

why are so many people sans clue on that ISP?

[19:14:41]

justinh:

teksavvy.com.. seldom actually seem to be tech savvy

[19:14:43]

skd5aner:

P.S., it wouldn't be "clear QAM" over an antenna, it'd be ATSC (if in the US)

[19:14:45]

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[19:15:09]

ablyss:

skd5aner: thanks. I'm hoping it will be okay... right now the one drop is over 100 foot w/out a booster and the quality is superb

[19:15:21]

justinh:

skd5aner: actually, *****I***** killed ProjectGrayPhlegm

[19:15:26]

iamlindoro:

justinh, are they german?

[19:15:32]

skd5aner:

sphery: thanks for the link, I don't check all the mails and only do so on gossamer

[19:15:34]

iamlindoro:

justinh, the germans all seem to think stealing is fine

[19:15:34]

sphery:

Tech Level: High, ... Cons: It's a 64-bit video card, but I'm not worried.

[19:15:39]

ablyss:

skd5aner: oh yes your right. My bad. I got the two mixed up

[19:15:51]

iamlindoro:

n/m, canadian

[19:16:18]

skd5aner:

ablyss: you can always try, and see... if not, split, see if it works, but I probably wouldn't do more than 1–3 off an OTA antenna, after that I'd get an amp of some kind for sure

[19:16:37]

justinh:

like the ones with "guru".. you just know "codingguru" is gonna be the one asking for help opening a text editor

[19:17:18]

sphery:

justinh: or expertexchange

[19:17:23]

wagnerrp:

wait, doesnt pulse audio not support passthrough?

[19:17:25]

skd5aner:

justinh: I know, but it looks like Sphery did the deathblow – or at least dumped the body in the river

[19:17:36]

wagnerrp:

(aside from mythtv not supporting pulseaudio)

[19:17:50]

justinh:

its carcass is sadly still languising in all the repos though

[19:18:10]

AndyCap:

wagnerrp: no dts/dd in pulse no

[19:18:25]

skd5aner:

ewwwww, expertexchange <vomit>

[19:18:35]

sphery:

expertsexchange was hilarious because for years, the site's "hide the answers until you register" was IE only (and any Firefox user could see it) because they used an IE CSS quirk, then they fixed it to be cross-browser CSS, but they left it so that View Source showed everything

[19:18:45]

mkrufky1:

enjoy the show guys... im gettin outta here

[19:18:49]

justinh:

wagnerrp: but on the bright side, you can output highly delayed audio into your bluetooth headset

[19:18:49]

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[19:18:56]

iamlindoro:

mkrufky, see you in LA X

[19:18:57]

AndyCap:

wagnerrp: unless it changed very recently.

[19:19:05]

sphery:

think they now leave it server side until you register, but took those "experts" years to get it right

[19:19:15]

kormoc:

sphery: if you have a refer of google.com when you scroll to the bottom, it's all in the clear, as SEO

[19:19:19]

mkrufky1:

see you on "the other side" ;-)

[19:19:31]

sphery:

kormoc: heh, nice

[19:19:34]

AndyCap:

kormoc: yeah, google got angry with them

[19:19:34]

iamlindoro:

mkrufky, can't wait to see What kate Does?

[19:19:49]

AndyCap:

kormoc: since they only presented it to googlebots first

[19:19:55]

kormoc:

yup

[19:20:25]

mkrufky1:

iamlindoro: i can wait till next week to se What Kate Does

[19:20:29]

skd5aner:

"what" kate does, or "who" kate does?

[19:20:35]

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[19:20:38]

mkrufky1:

we already know who kate does

[19:20:43]

mkrufky1:

but i gotta go

[19:20:44]

mkrufky1:

enjoy

[19:20:46]

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[19:20:53]

skd5aner:

changes week by week, of course

[19:21:28]

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[19:21:40]

** sphery considers going against the 1–2yr offset with this season's LOST and actually starting up the pop-up Incident about 7:30, then following with LOST: Final Chapter, then LAX (1 + 2) **

[19:21:42]

skd5aner:

hmmm – apparently, VDPAU doesn't exhibit a bug I used to have without it... nice

[19:21:59]

sphery:

which bug?

[19:22:04]

sphery:

Myth doesn't have bugs...

[19:22:29]

kormoc:

just some unwanted features

[19:22:44]

sphery:

and some FRWOP

[19:22:47]

iamlindoro:

technical level clearance gates

[19:23:04]

sphery:

heh

[19:23:14]

sphery:

if that's the case, we might need to raise them a bit...

[19:23:28]

sphery:

after all, I found my way past them

[19:23:44]

skd5aner:

sphery: need to do some testing to confirm, I know there's a ticket that someone else opened related to it, can't find the #... mythmusic not showing track info during visualizations at song changes

[19:24:03]

sphery:

ah, that's MythMusic, not MythTV...

[19:24:11]

sphery:

I don't know about MythMusic

[19:24:22]

iamlindoro:

and has nothing to do with VDPAU...

[19:24:39]

kormoc:

Ahh, I hate quitting...

[19:24:45]

iamlindoro:

quitter

[19:24:50]

sphery:

quitting?

[19:24:53]

kormoc:

Aye

[19:24:57]

iamlindoro:

opposite of starting

[19:24:57]

sphery:

work?

[19:24:59]

kormoc:

I'm getting out of this place!

[19:25:00]

kormoc:

Aye

[19:25:10]

sphery:

wow, then congrats, I suppose

[19:25:15]

kormoc:

No more teachers, no more books, no more teacher's dirty looks!

[19:25:20]

skd5aner:

iamlindoro: I know it has nothing to do with VDPAU, I didn't say it made sense...

[19:25:21]

sphery:

making room on the schedule for more Myth work?

[19:25:27]

kormoc:

I need a life and this place is working me to the bone

[19:25:31]

kormoc:

that's the hope!

[19:25:35]

sphery:

:D

[19:25:47]

kormoc:

I'm gonna be a Senior DBA and System's Engineer for flowplay.com in two weeks :)

[19:25:55]

iamlindoro:

skd5aner, correlation does not prove causation, not only does it not make sense, they're definitely unrelated ;)

[19:26:13]

iamlindoro:

kormoc, does that mean we'll get getting full time flash player support? :)

[19:26:22]

** kormoc laughs **

[19:26:25]

iamlindoro:

er e'll be getting

[19:26:26]

kormoc:

We'll see ;)

[19:26:31]

skd5aner:

hey, you're preaching to the choir, I have to use the correlation != causation line daily anymore it seems

[19:26:36]

sphery:

iamlindoro: I don't know, fewer pirates, hotter temperatures... Dispute that!

[19:27:18]

sphery:

kormoc: interesting site

[19:27:25]

iamlindoro:

I dunno, I love hellanzb's new "destroy stolen files" feature

[19:27:51]

sphery:

heh, yeah

[19:28:40]

justinh:

ruh?

[19:28:57]

justinh:

something that looks for group names in video filenames etc? :D

[19:29:06]

iamlindoro:

justinh, the guy in here a few ago whining that his attempt to steal from usenet had resulted in the tool erasing all his video files

[19:29:09]

iamlindoro:

I wept for him

[19:29:16]

justinh:

ah

[19:30:21]

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[19:30:40]

skd5aner:

iamlindoro: eh, well – no doubt the VDPAU stuff was a red herring, I just switch back playback profiles, and the problem is still not showing itself

[19:31:43]

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[19:31:46]

skd5aner:

either way, It had exhibited itself up until today, when I made the following changes: New Video Card, update nvidia drivers, apt-get update, and VDPAU playback profile

[19:32:37]

skd5aner:

my assumption is something in X got fixed, or maybe OpenGL stuff within the nvidia drivers... either way, since I no longer have the problem, I'm happy

[19:34:03]

skd5aner:

And – no problems with VDPAU High Quality playback profile :)

[19:34:38]

skd5aner:

What do you guys set your HD-PVR bitrates to?

[19:34:39]

iamlindoro:

We have got to stop naming playback profile groups as though they were value judgments

[19:34:56]

iamlindoro:

tiny penis, medium penis, magnum, etc.

[19:35:09]

skd5aner:

and what defines a "low, medium, and high" resolution? 0<720<1080?

[19:35:10]

sphery:

no joke

[19:35:11]

iamlindoro:

skd5aner, what GPU are you using?

[19:35:18]

skd5aner:

GT 240

[19:35:29]

iamlindoro:

Should be fine for any of the deinterlacers, then

[19:35:51]

skd5aner:

yea, plus the new stuff Mark's started to include in trunk (HQ scalers, etc)

[19:36:56]

skd5aner:

taking the dog out, brb

[19:38:24]

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[19:47:39]

skd5aner:

so, anyway – HD-PVR recording profile bitrates... any advice? Defaults "good enough"?

[19:48:18]

iamlindoro:

max 'em out

[19:49:03]

abqjp:

I typically use max VBR as the default, and max CBR for sports.

[19:49:40]

afm:

so I have compiled the patched lirc_dev.ko and the lirc_zilog.ko as per the wiki. it says to replace the existing, and i _only_ have a lirc_dev.ko here /lib/modules/2.6.31-17-generic/kernel/ubuntu/lirc/lirc_dev/

[19:50:27]

skd5aner:

max out the max bitrates, in addition to the "avg" bitrates

[19:50:29]

skd5aner:

?

[19:52:01]

abqjp:

skd5aner: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/ . . . 26?page=last

[19:52:04]

skd5aner:

abqjp: I didn't realize you could specify between VBR and CBR, how does the profile determine that

[19:52:08]

skd5aner:

thanks, checkig now

[19:52:58]

skd5aner:

I see, thanks

[20:00:10]

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[20:05:39]

EnderTheThird:

iamlindoro: What program did you use to make your watermark icons in Arclight?

[20:07:05]

sphery:

inkscape, I think

[20:07:29]

sphery:

EnderTheThird: are you doing a theme?

[20:07:53]

EnderTheThird:

sphery: no, just making icons for my XBMC and Hulu Desktop launchers

[20:08:04]

sphery:

ah, yeah, that's right

[20:08:05]

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[20:08:19]

EnderTheThird:

Yeah, I thought I mentioned it to you last time. :-)

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[20:08:40]

sphery:

yeah, my memory isn't nearly as good as I've convinced people it is :)

[20:09:51]

EnderTheThird:

Ha, I'm definitely not judging.

[20:12:00]

jst_:

"A QAM tuner provides the transmission of some digital cable channels without the need of a set top box. Many TVs manufactured after 2006 include a QAM tuner." Would this work with tuners like the HVR-1600/1800?

[20:12:08]

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[20:12:08]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v Dibblah

[20:12:26]

wagnerrp:

where is that?

[20:12:32]

jst_:

FiOS.

[20:12:40]

wagnerrp:

a 'tuner' does not provide the transmission of anything

[20:13:11]

jst_:

I know, the wording is confusing. Wouldn't one still need a CableCard?

[20:13:27]

wagnerrp:

and any QAM tuner usable by mythtv, or on a tv without cablecard will only be able to pick up the unencrypted channels

[20:13:40]

wagnerrp:

which likely means only the 'must carry' local stations

[20:13:53]

jst_:

Right.

[20:13:55]

wagnerrp:

check silicondust.com for a lineup of what you should expect to get in the clear

[20:14:14]

wagnerrp:

they have a database, searchable by zip code

[20:15:22]

jst_:

Wow, 193 prorgams in the clear.

[20:15:24]

jst_:

http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/lineup_w . . . neup_1543594

[20:15:35]

jst_:

I guess I'll be going with Comcast when I move.

[20:15:59]

wagnerrp:

no

[20:16:44]

jst_:

?

[20:16:56]

wagnerrp:

chances are those are a bunch of channels that will have 'privacy mode' enabled for use with the cheap DTAs comcast is rolling out in replacement of analog cable

[20:17:31]

jst_:

Yeah, I was reading about those.

[20:17:38]

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[20:17:43]

EnderTheThird:

And a lot will be the preview and guide channels that come up on your STB. Look at some of the screenshots in that link

[20:17:52]

jst_:

I think I'll use two DTAs and one STB/HDPVR.

[20:20:08]

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[20:21:50]

sphery:

jst_: or OTA and an antenna

[20:22:10]

jst_:

sphery, unacceptable. I need Speed and ESPN. :)

[20:22:26]

sphery:

yeah, that won't work for those

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[20:59:56]

** iamlindoro needs to start watching Caprica **

[20:59:57]

iamlindoro:

http://www.thetvdb.com/banners/fanart/original/85040-2.jpg

[21:00:17]

skd5aner:

who's the actress?

[21:00:33]

iamlindoro:

who cares

[21:04:15]

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[21:04:37]

jolaren:

If I have two pci cards.. can they work with 1 reader?

[21:06:06]

SirColin:

huh

[21:06:50]

Beirdo:

ugh

[21:08:08]

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[21:10:16]

Beirdo:

wow. This apple vodka is good :)

[21:10:55]

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[21:11:45]

sark666:

f

[21:11:46]

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[21:13:05]

sark666:

i've been using myth for a few years now, but since .21 i had an issue with my framegrabber. (zoltrix tv genie). I believe it's capturing feilds out of order. All content looks interlaced. I even set capture res at 240 lines and it still appears interlaced

[21:13:09]

Beirdo:

!help

[21:13:16]

Beirdo:

yup, it's silent

[21:13:18]

Beirdo:

bother

[21:13:28]

sark666:

but when capturing half-frame it shouldn't have interlacing artifacts

[21:13:59]

sark666:

i thought it might be somthing with the tuner itself, but in tvtime it's fine.

[21:14:49]

sark666:

also, recordings prior to the upgrade do not have the issue. so it's not playback but during recording

[21:15:11]

sark666:

i just upgraded to .22 hoping it would resolve itself but it's still the same

[21:15:20]

sark666:

is there a way to force a field swap?

[21:15:25]

jolaren:

Btw for you guys who haven't seen http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.11565

[21:15:28]

jolaren:

myth tv supports

[21:15:30]

jolaren:

15usd

[21:15:32]

jolaren:

^^

[21:17:49]

sark666:

i've googled a lot but can't find anything on field order.

[21:17:59]

sark666:

i take it not many are still using framegrabbers?

[21:19:28]

jolaren:

I have a framegrabber at home, alot of ppl here said it was useless

[21:19:32]

jolaren:

so I gave it away

[21:19:35]

jolaren:

apart from that I don't know

[21:19:55]

jolaren:

Btw, would a cable splitter (so I could use two cards with one antenna) affect the quality of my picture?

[21:20:07]

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[21:20:53]

Beirdo:

it could

[21:21:21]

Beirdo:

you get signal loss with splitters... how noticable it would be depends on how strong the signal was to start with

[21:21:49]

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[21:21:53]

** sphery doesn't understand why so many people would rather run an unsupported configuration than spend 3 minutes making a dummy tuner for their "tunerless" backend **

[21:21:58]

Beirdo:

if you amplify before splitting, you might not even notice

[21:22:26]

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[21:23:33]

Beirdo:

jeez

[21:23:40]

** Beirdo slaps direcpc. **

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[21:24:08]

Beirdo:

jst_home... yer flapping in the breeze.

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[21:32:02]

jolaren:

Beirdo; I'll give it a try then

[21:32:07]

jolaren:

cuz the tuner is soo cheap

[21:32:08]

jolaren:

:p

[21:34:26]

Beirdo:

I used a 4-way splitting setup when I still had analog cable

[21:34:34]

Beirdo:

with pre-amplification

[21:36:15]

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[21:36:40]

jolaren:

I guess this is the wrong place to ask but a while back I bought a hauppage wintv nova-t 500 card for my server

[21:36:44]

jolaren:

a remote came with the deal..

[21:36:52]

jolaren:

thing is the receiver is a cord thingy you plug into the card

[21:36:54]

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[21:37:11]

jolaren:

so my question is, is it possible to get annother receiver or smoehow remake the cord to a regular usb?

[21:38:18]

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[21:41:55]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: if youre still around, ive got a bug submission... the webpage seems to generate the wrong 'dash' in links

[21:42:06]

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[21:42:12]

Beirdo:

oh?

[21:42:32]

Beirdo:

you have an example?

[21:42:38]

wagnerrp:

see iamlindoro's thetvdb link from around 8pm

[21:42:48]

wagnerrp:

looks like it would be 9pm

[21:43:01]

wagnerrp:

the dash is the wrong dash

[21:43:02]

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[21:43:21]

wagnerrp:

looks right, but its slightly longer than the correct dash

[21:43:59]

Beirdo:

how odd

[21:44:14]

wagnerrp:

ive noticed that a couple times the last couple months

[21:44:52]

Beirdo:

OK, I'll go investigate in the db to see how it's stored

[21:45:13]

wagnerrp:

didnt mean you had to fix it now, just wanted to bring it to your attention

[21:45:28]

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[21:45:51]

Beirdo:

no problem. I've never noticed it before, would just like to know where the problem lies

[21:49:01]

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[21:54:21]

jolaren:

Are there tuners who supports like 4 x ?

[21:54:49]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: it looks fine in the db

[21:54:59]

Beirdo:

my guess its in the PHP

[21:55:06]

wagnerrp:

theres a couple specialized and not-yet available cablecard tuners

[21:55:11]

wagnerrp:

not like that would do much good for mythtv

[21:55:29]

Beirdo:

which was originally written by xris, but I'll see what I find :)

[21:55:49]

sark666:

is there a way to force field swap on capture?

[21:56:01]

wagnerrp:

eh?

[21:56:20]

sark666:

i believe my tuner has the incorrect field order when capturing

[21:57:02]

wagnerrp:

you might want to try in #linuxtv

[21:57:20]

wagnerrp:

not many people in here would use framegrabbers, or even know what that means

[21:57:32]

wagnerrp:

probably only a couple of devs who could answer your question

[21:58:30]

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[22:05:24]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: that bug will only happen if the – is between two numbers

[22:05:26]

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[22:09:43]

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[22:16:15]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: ok, fixed

[22:16:16]

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[22:16:47]

Beirdo:

I told it NOT to make that subsitution inside a link (much the same as how he made that exception elsewhere)

[22:17:06]

Beirdo:

now to change it where it matters... in git :)

[22:20:07]

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[22:32:10]

sark666:

wagnerrp, has everyone pretty much gone digital at the point? I would think people in some areas would still have to resort to analogue framegrabbers with encrypted digital tv

[22:32:51]

wagnerrp:

sark666: tons of people are still using analog because they have to to receive encrypted digital tv

[22:33:17]

wagnerrp:

however they uses IVTV cards (mpeg encoders), or HDPVRs (h264 encoders)

[22:33:37]

sark666:

ah

[22:33:40]

wagnerrp:

framegrabbers are no good for much other than livetv

[22:33:51]

wagnerrp:

and since mythtv doesnt do livetv, theyre not much good for mythtv

[22:34:24]

jolaren:

What do you mean doesn't do livetv? Ah, you mean since it records constantly

[22:34:24]

jolaren:

nvm

[22:34:32]

sphery:

stupid local channel puts a news promo on top of the pop-ups on LOST

[22:34:34]

Beirdo:

there we go. all fixed, and checked into git

[22:34:34]

sark666:

why not? i've used a few over the years. of course you can schedule recordings. there's no reason why they are only for livetv

[22:34:59]

wagnerrp:

'livetv' implies that you are pumping straight from the tuner card into the video card's frame buffer

[22:35:25]

wagnerrp:

mythtv always has at least a couple second lag as it compresses and writes to disk

[22:35:43]

Beirdo:

and then decompressed

[22:35:45]

sark666:

well not too long ago, everyone was pretty much using framegrabbers... but ya things change. but there's no reason why they shouldn't still work

[22:35:57]

sark666:

it worked fine for me for years...

[22:36:11]

jolaren:

win95 worked fine for me

[22:36:12]

jolaren:

for years

[22:36:24]

sark666:

heh.point taken

[22:36:44]

wagnerrp:

sure they work, theyre just a paint to deal with

[22:36:54]

wagnerrp:

pain

[22:37:15]

sark666:

well if it's a myth issue, it's a shame that what once worked is now broken, but because so few use it, no one notices

[22:37:18]

jolaren:

I have a framegrabber card, can't remember what brand either.. took it out cuz wagnerrp said it was pretty useless

[22:37:42]

wagnerrp:

i didnt say it was useless

[22:37:48]

wagnerrp:

i said it was a pain to get working

[22:37:59]

wagnerrp:

and youre better off spending $20 on ebay for an old PVR150

[22:38:10]

jolaren:

yer true

[22:38:21]

jolaren:

btw did you see the 15 usd dvb-t card I linked?

[22:38:23]

jolaren:

pretty sweet

[22:38:34]

wagnerrp:

the USB tuners?

[22:38:51]

jolaren:

uhm dno if that's what it should be adressed as

[22:39:06]

jolaren:

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.11565

[22:39:12]

sark666:

for me they always just worked. no pain setting them up. one time bttv detected one incorrectly, but that's about it.

[22:39:28]

sark666:

and i'm not too keen on hardware encoders...

[22:39:42]

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[22:39:46]

wagnerrp:

the problem is that you need a decent amount of CPU for each tuner

[22:39:49]

jolaren:

wagnerrp; I'm thinkin about gettin that cuz my girl always wants to watch somethin else then me

[22:39:53]

wagnerrp:

and you have to deal with audio capture

[22:40:01]

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[22:40:04]

jolaren:

pci is better rite?

[22:40:40]

wagnerrp:

framegrabber audio capture has always been a troubling issue for users in here, while encoder cards sidestep the whole issue

[22:41:09]

wagnerrp:

easier to set up, easier to support, just better to deal with all around

[22:41:12]

sark666:

well this post has some nice points against hardware encoders.

[22:41:14]

sark666:

http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/248358#248358

[22:41:25]

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[22:41:49]

sark666:

but you make good points and I'm enclinded to agree for the most part, but again it's a shame that what once worked no longer does

[22:42:19]

wagnerrp:

framegrabbers still work just the same as they always have with mythtv

[22:42:30]

Beirdo:

you're quoting a 3 year old post? :)

[22:42:32]

jolaren:

4 total: 1 x 64-bit/66MHz PCI-X slot, 1 x 32-bit/33MHz PCI slot,

[22:42:32]

jolaren:

dual embedded Gigabit NICs

[22:42:40]

Beirdo:

surely SOMETHING has changed in 3 years

[22:42:43]

sark666:

well it still works... but i have some weird field swap issue

[22:42:46]

jolaren:

my server outputs

[22:42:51]

sark666:

i've had it since .21

[22:42:53]

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[22:43:14]

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[22:43:31]

jolaren:

is there any good pci-x cards?

[22:43:38]

Beirdo:

heya, kormoc

[22:43:51]

kormoc:

Mornin' Mr. Beirdo! How goes it?

[22:43:56]

Beirdo:

meh

[22:44:04]

Beirdo:

looking for work in Seattle again

[22:44:06]

wagnerrp:

jolaren: anything youre going to find in PCI-X form is probably going to be a industrial security card

[22:44:19]

sark666:

yes it's an older post, but some of the points are still valid. you are always limited options-wise with a hardware encoder

[22:44:30]

jolaren:

wagnerrp; oh rite lool

[22:44:42]

kormoc:

Beirdo: So I've heard. I've been keeping an eye out for ya

[22:44:52]

wagnerrp:

sark666: my comment is that most users dont use framegrabbers, i dont think any devs still use framegrabbers, and youre just not likely to find someone versed in that issue in here

[22:44:55]

Beirdo:

got a phone interview on Friday

[22:45:00]

Beirdo:

hope that all goes well

[22:45:19]

iamlindoro:

not only do most of the devs not use framegrabbers, most of the devs don't even use analog period

[22:45:20]

jamesd2:

pci-x is probably best for Nic's and disk controllers... and total over kill for video capture...

[22:45:29]

kormoc:

Beirdo: Indeed. Where at if I might inquire?

[22:45:34]

Beirdo:

hehe

[22:45:36]

iamlindoro:

ergo nobody caring much about analog channel scan not working right now

[22:45:40]

Beirdo:

starts with g, ends with e

[22:45:49]

kormoc:

Ooh! Congratz!

[22:45:57]

kormoc:

Those are a bit... rough :)

[22:45:59]

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[22:46:00]

Beirdo:

thanks :) Here's hoping

[22:46:46]

kormoc:

Indeed!

[22:46:48]

jolaren:

jamesd2; Yer, I reckon.. I just have no useage for it so I thought why not plug in a card

[22:46:52]

jolaren:

I only have 2 usb ports

[22:47:42]

Beirdo:

meanwhile, I'm just relaxing tonight... having some nice apple vodka from upstate NY

[22:47:54]

jolaren:

the big apple ;)

[22:48:17]

kormoc:

Ooh! Yum

[22:48:19]

Beirdo:

it's called "Core Vodka" in case anyone's inclined to use google to find out :)

[22:48:20]

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[22:48:42]

kormoc:

Beirdo: worthy of acquiring?

[22:48:49]

Beirdo:

I bought it at the micro-distillery/apple orchard August 2008

[22:48:59]

Beirdo:

just opened it tonight

[22:49:09]

Beirdo:

yeah, but they don't ship out of NY

[22:49:11]

Beirdo:

heh

[22:49:14]

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[22:49:17]

Beirdo:

I like it

[22:49:33]

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[22:49:37]

jamesd2:

jolaren, a lot of people doing home fileservers would love to have a motherboard with a pci-x slot.. ebay has lots of cheap io boards and nics.. that would overwhelm a standard pci slot, and pci-e is too expensive to do a home system

[22:49:46]

kormoc:

Heh, well, when I head over to the east coast, I'll see what I can do :)

[22:49:49]

jolaren:

Got any suggestions on what I could use my server for? I got a dedicated 100/100mbits connection for it and it seems like such a waste just having it run myth for me

[22:50:04]

Beirdo:

what yer leaving the NW?

[22:50:24]

kormoc:

Beirdo: I visit the east semi-often, Family, Friends, Conferences, etc

[22:50:25]

jolaren:

jamesd2; Could you describe the useage of it abit more.. Sorry for my incompetence

[22:50:29]

Beirdo:

ooooh

[22:50:33]

jamesd2:

jolaren, dns, proxy, mythtv, lamp stack, xen/virtual box

[22:50:41]

Beirdo:

OK. This place is near the MA border

[22:50:55]

Beirdo:

I could find it on a map should you head out there sometime

[22:51:01]

kormoc:

Sounds grand :)

[22:51:23]

Beirdo:

I drove there from Hartford

[22:51:24]

Beirdo:

heh

[22:51:47]

jamesd2:

jolaren, pci-X is very hight bandwidth, from memory its good for upto 512MB/s so great for multiple sata drives or dual or more port gigabit ports.. these cards are cheap on ebay.... and perfect for home fileservers

[22:51:48]

wagnerrp:

jamesd2: no it isnt

[22:52:08]

wagnerrp:

not if youre buying retail, and not picking up 2nd hand hardware

[22:52:26]

jolaren:

retail is expensive as ****

[22:52:36]

jolaren:

but I'm not really out for the most stable hardware there is

[22:52:41]

jamesd2:

wagnerrp, yes i meant for the home user...

[22:52:44]

wagnerrp:

bah, you can pick up a nice non-raid SAS card for $200

[22:53:01]

jolaren:

which is even more then I bought out my server for

[22:53:15]

jamesd2:

i can pickup a new pci-x 8x sata card for $120 new...

[22:53:15]

wagnerrp:

something with a ton of ports, and the capability for port expanders

[22:54:19]

jamesd2:

home users can do quite well with used servers especially if they want a fileserver that holds lots of disks

[22:54:42]

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[22:55:16]

wagnerrp:

meh... ive become disenchanted with ebay

[22:55:22]

wagnerrp:

picked up too much garbage hardware off it

[22:55:26]

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[22:55:45]

Beirdo:

the sniping buttwipes ruined it for me

[22:55:58]

iamlindoro:

Captain_Murdoch, Why do I have a feeling I need to go re-check every screen in Arclight after r23450?

[22:56:08]

jolaren:

wagnerrp; use dealextreme lad

[22:56:13]

jolaren:

i'm lovin it

[22:56:25]

wagnerrp:

ive gotten some stuff off there, nothing lasted very long

[22:56:34]

jolaren:

really?

[22:56:50]

Captain_Murdoch:

iamlindoro, this isn't the qrectf conversion. if anything, it will make your theme look much better at non-native resolutions.

[22:56:51]

wagnerrp:

couple 'new' scsi drives that both failed within a couple months

[22:56:58]

jolaren:

Sad to hear that

[22:57:05]

jolaren:

I vouche dealextreme all the time

[22:57:16]

jolaren:

It's my favorite foreign buy stuff site

[22:57:22]

Captain_Murdoch:

iamlindoro, I'd appreciate if you used your eagle eye on your own theme though to spot check a couple screens that don't use JPP's patch.

[22:57:25]

iamlindoro:

Captain_Murdoch, knew it wasn't the qrectf thing, just sounded like it might affect the pixel-perfect buttonlist placing in AL

[22:57:43]

iamlindoro:

I'll compile and check

[22:57:50]

iamlindoro:

nothing to do 'til LOST anyway

[22:58:26]

jolaren:

Oh rite! New episodes of Paradise Hotel is out!

[22:58:31]

jolaren:

My backend crashed today, severly

[22:58:35]

kormoc:

I need a record in order scheduler option before I'll start watching LOST :)

[22:58:57]

iamlindoro:

they call it a DVD player ;)

[22:58:58]

Captain_Murdoch:

run your them at some oddball resolution like -O GuiHeight=562,GuiWidth=1000 and check out the screens first, then recompile and run at that res and see the difference.

[22:59:05]

Captain_Murdoch:

s/run your them/run your theme/

[22:59:07]

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[22:59:15]

Captain_Murdoch:

1000x562 = 16:9

[23:00:04]

iamlindoro:

Captain_Murdoch, Ah, I see what you are saying at that res

[23:01:02]

Captain_Murdoch:

that's what I'm trying to fix. :) people running at non-native resolutions, ie, at 720p instead of 1080 the theme is designed for, etc.

[23:01:13]

Captain_Murdoch:

non-theme-native I should say.

[23:01:26]

Captain_Murdoch:

1024x768 on a theme designed for 800x600, etc.

[23:01:48]

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[23:01:52]

iamlindoro:

Captain_Murdoch, hmm, actually, maybe I'm not seeing it-- just installed the new version but the single pixel spacing is still gone

[23:02:16]

Captain_Murdoch:

what screen are you looking at?

[23:02:23]

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[23:02:34]

kormoc:

iamlindoro: Did you get the tarballs/screen shots together or shall I do that now?

[23:02:54]

iamlindoro:

kormoc, I have the tarballs but they need to all be updated for a MythUI change-- give me a few minutes

[23:03:00]

kormoc:

Rgr

[23:03:04]

Captain_Murdoch:

I have some code in there which should prohibit single-pixel spacing from being scaled down to 0-pixel spacing.

[23:03:15]

iamlindoro:

Captain_Murdoch, the PBB... everything else seemed to look normal before and after here

[23:03:18]

kormoc:

iamlindoro: We're going to host them ourselves?

[23:03:27]

iamlindoro:

kormoc, yeah, I think so

[23:03:31]

Captain_Murdoch:

PBB uses JPP's patch, so my code shouldn't affect it.

[23:03:32]

iamlindoro:

kormoc, or I can host them

[23:03:43]

kormoc:

iamlindoro: no problems, we can easily enough :)

[23:03:52]

iamlindoro:

Captain_Murdoch, then I guess I am not clear what you were seeing-- Mythvideo, for example, looked fine here at that non-standard res without your changes

[23:04:51]

iamlindoro:

Captain_Murdoch, holy crap, that change breaks the crap out of some buttonlists in Arclight, though

[23:04:56]

Captain_Murdoch:

look at something like your recording rules screen which uses the same-sized-buttons. then try that at various UI sizes.

[23:05:11]

iamlindoro:

I can re-adjust, but yikes

[23:05:14]

Captain_Murdoch:

which ones?

[23:05:42]

Captain_Murdoch:

it shouldn't be adding any space to a buttonlist if the buttons are already fitting correctly in the area.

[23:05:48]

iamlindoro:

Netvision search view, left buttonlist, mythgallery buttonlist, mythgame buttonlist... etc.

[23:06:06]

iamlindoro:

It's possible I was somehow compensating for the old system, but this is going to need a lot of tweaking

[23:06:22]

Captain_Murdoch:

let me go look at one, hold a sec.

[23:06:22]

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[23:06:37]

iamlindoro:

*all* my left hand buttonlists have a ton of inter-item spacing now

[23:06:42]

iamlindoro:

and many of the right hand ones too

[23:06:55]

iamlindoro:

causing most of them to overlap their arrows

[23:07:20]

iamlindoro:

If you are convinced this is a genuine bugfix, I will re-compensate

[23:07:28]

Captain_Murdoch:

at full res or that res I gave you?

[23:07:32]

iamlindoro:

at full res

[23:07:38]

iamlindoro:

(1360x768 right now)

[23:07:45]

Captain_Murdoch:

I thought your theme was 1920

[23:08:01]

iamlindoro:

It is-- but until the last changeset it displayed properly at this res and 1920x1080

[23:08:15]

iamlindoro:

I am saying it no longer displays properly on my 1360x768 screen

[23:08:43]

Captain_Murdoch:

ok, hold a sec and let me look. I need to recompile plugins.

[23:09:11]

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[23:09:18]

Captain_Murdoch:

do you have a non-plugin example I could look at?

[23:10:18]

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[23:10:36]

Captain_Murdoch:

is PBB's left hand side an example?

[23:10:46]

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[23:11:24]

iamlindoro:

there, and any place that inherits that buttonlist

[23:11:43]

Captain_Murdoch:

ok, checking something.

[23:11:51]

iamlindoro:

now has ~4ish pixels between each item

[23:11:57]

iamlindoro:

but the buttonlist itself has a spacing of 1

[23:12:15]

iamlindoro:

actually, it inherits down and then gets a spacing of 0

[23:12:20]

iamlindoro:

but definitely not 4 ;)

[23:12:46]

iamlindoro:

also now seeing inconsistent spacing between buttonitems like with your qrectf patch again

[23:12:53]

iamlindoro:

two sometimes, sometimes one, etc.

[23:13:31]

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[23:14:00]

iamlindoro:

again, if you can confirm that the changeset makes it as it should be, I am fine with adjusting the theme to compensate, but it would rather be sure that the spacing was going to stop moving around so I might wait for your qRectf bits

[23:14:01]

ZathaeL:

Sorry for all the leaving and joining. I didn't realize I had to register my nick before I could speak

[23:14:11]

ZathaeL:

I freely admit I'm an idiot

[23:16:20]

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[23:17:20]

ZathaeL:

Anyway....I've got an interesting issue with my system that I was hoping you guys might have a solution for. I currently have 2 tuners. One uses an older, cable box without high-def, the other uses the HD capable cable box and records through an HD-PVR. I have two input sources setup in Myth, "All Channels" and "No HD"

[23:17:43]

Captain_Murdoch:

iamlindoro, what's the name of the button scroll indicators?

[23:17:47]

ZathaeL:

in the "No HD" input source, I have all the HD channels set with visible=false

[23:18:23]

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[23:18:36]

iamlindoro:

Captain_Murdoch, upscrollarrow/downscrollarrow, both statetypes

[23:18:42]

ZathaeL:

However, when I'm in Live TV and on the tuner associated with the "No HD" listings, if I change channel to one of the HD channels, it still tries to do it on the Non-HD tuner

[23:18:48]

ZathaeL:

is there a way to avoid this?

[23:19:27]

Captain_Murdoch:

iamlindoro, filenames off the top of your head?

[23:19:38]

Captain_Murdoch:

want to know the size actually and was going to look at the images.

[23:20:01]

iamlindoro:

images/arclight_popup_uparrow.png

[23:20:13]

iamlindoro:

images/arclight_popup_downarrow.png

[23:20:27]

Captain_Murdoch:

ok, 21x18.

[23:20:44]

sphery:

heh, in LOST: Final Chapter, when introducing the people, they say, "an estranged couple" for Jin and Sun, but the captions read, "and a strange couple"

[23:21:05]

iamlindoro:

Captain_Murdoch, I'm sure you're following a logical path, but obviously my greater concern is that the <spacing> tag appears to be entirely ignored now

[23:21:22]

iamlindoro:

and, in fact, appears to be variable

[23:21:25]

Captain_Murdoch:

it isn't, believe me. :)

[23:21:30]

iamlindoro:

(ie the spacing is not consistent between buttons)

[23:21:41]

Captain_Murdoch:

I don't touch spacing, I only touch positions and sizes of buttons.

[23:21:56]

sphery:

ZathaeL: there's a bug (that some think is desired behavior) where visible is not respected for LiveTV

[23:21:57]

iamlindoro:

I believe you... but we can agree that it now makes the theme look like hell ;)

[23:22:26]

sphery:

ZathaeL: so you need to reconfigure your system... You need to delete the channels from each video source that can't be received on the input associated with that video source

[23:22:27]

ZathaeL:

ahhhh

[23:22:43]

sphery:

so on the "No HD" video source, delete all the HD channels

[23:22:56]

ZathaeL:

well, if I delete them from the DB, mythfilldatabase just readds them when it runs

[23:23:09]

sphery:

and you may need to set a value for the mythfilldatabase arguments setting of --remove-new-channels

[23:23:16]

sphery:

(I'm assuming you're using Schedules Direct)

[23:23:21]

ZathaeL:

I am

[23:23:29]

sphery:

so, yeah, you need to set --remove-new-channels

[23:23:42]

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[23:23:43]

ZathaeL:

ok, that's awesome sphery

[23:24:09]

ZathaeL:

I take it I'll need to occasionally run mythfilldatabase without that arguement just to get new channels...?

[23:24:17]

high-rez:

Pardon my ignorace here... I'

[23:24:18]

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[23:24:18]

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[23:24:45]

high-rez:

I'd like to better understand the custonm filters for vdpau. Specifically with regards to ivtc.

[23:24:45]

sphery:

ZathaeL: if you get new channels, then you can (but you'll have to re-delete all the channels you don't want)

[23:25:07]

sphery:

ZathaeL: the other option is to set up 2 different lineups at Schedules Direct, each containing only the desired channels for that source

[23:25:25]

ZathaeL:

cool. One more questions, can I just do a "delete from channel where...." in mysql to delte the channels, or do I need to use the channel editing tools in mythtv-setup or myhtweb?

[23:25:38]

sphery:

I highly recommend the channel editor

[23:25:56]

ZathaeL:

yeah, Schedules direct won't let you do that for the same "listings", or at least wouldn't last time I checked

[23:25:57]

sphery:

in mythtv-setup just hit D and the channel is removed

[23:26:10]

ZathaeL:

I'll check again before I delete the channels

[23:27:02]

sphery:

ZathaeL: yeah, you can usually find an alternative (i.e. for the analog channels chose the cable analog package or just choose a neighboring zip code and choose the same cable package)

[23:27:20]

ZathaeL:

cool

[23:27:28]

ZathaeL:

I really appreciate all your help, sphery

[23:27:30]

ZathaeL:

you're very kind

[23:27:31]

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[23:27:44]

sphery:

chances are you won't get many new channels, though--cable co's prefer removing channels unless you pay more money :)

[23:28:13]

ZathaeL:

hehe yeah

[23:28:33]

sphery:

anyway, you have a couple of options, so feel free to explore them

[23:28:37]

ZathaeL:

Comcast just added a ton here, so that's part of why I'm going through this

[23:28:39]

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[23:29:07]

ZathaeL:

I will. I'm going to go with the --remove-new-channels for now. I don't mind deleting them every once in a while.

[23:29:15]

sphery:

the mythfilldatabase arguments is either in mythfrontend settings or mythtv-setup but should be under General settings in whichever...

[23:29:23]

ZathaeL:

cool

[23:29:24]

sphery:

I don't remember whether we moved it before 0.22 or after...

[23:29:39]

sphery:

in trunk it's in mythtv-setup in 0.21-fixes it's in mythfrontend settings

[23:29:51]

sphery:

--remove-new-channels is probably the easiest

[23:29:52]

iamlindoro:

after

[23:30:30]

sphery:

and, if someone gets some work done he plans to do, it will be /very/ easy for you to "restore" the channels to the way you like them after the mythfilldatabase automatically adds new ones

[23:30:57]

sphery:

so sounds like mythfilldatabase args is still in mythfrontend settings in 0.22

[23:33:47]

ZathaeL:

yup, looks like, I just looked in mythtv-setup

[23:34:39]

sphery:

iamlindoro has a much better memory than I

[23:34:44]

ZathaeL:

heheh

[23:34:53]

iamlindoro:

only on my pet stuff

[23:35:04]

jolaren:

For the record, has anyone of you managed to use mythtv for windows?

[23:35:07]

sphery:

so you never forget to buy dog food?

[23:35:32]

sphery:

What's this windows thing you speak of?

[23:36:24]

ZathaeL:

ok, awesome, that's got it. Thanks so much!

[23:37:09]

sphery:

enjoy

[23:37:26]

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[23:37:35]

jamesd2:

jolaren, last i look you had to build it your self, and its quite involved... best to build a small linux box to use as a myth backend and then use mythtv player to watch shows...

[23:38:04]

jolaren:

yer sure the backend would b linux all the time

[23:38:08]

jolaren:

I'm thinkin bout me girls computer

[23:38:13]

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[23:38:20]

jolaren:

perhaps I could hook her up with a dualboot or smth

[23:39:04]

jolaren:

she's not really in-to the linux enviroment so to speak

[23:39:08]

jamesd2:

jolaren, a dual boot wouldn't work well for a backend... can't record tv when in windows... just need linux for the backend, and then use mythtvplayer for windows to watch tv show....

[23:39:16]

jolaren:

jamesd2; I reckon that

[23:39:17]

sphery:

I would just use a Samba share and mythrename.pl --link and use something like VLC or MPC if I were forced to use Windows

[23:39:23]

jolaren:

the backend is a stand-alone linux server

[23:40:00]

sphery:

though I highly recommend using mythfrontend for all real MythTV usage (i.e. only use a Windows box for playback when you're working in MS Office and want a distraction in a window on the side)

[23:40:19]

jolaren:

I compiled it for windows a few days ago but It complained about my server beein 7 versions behind tho

[23:40:27]

jolaren:

tho it wasnt

[23:40:37]

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[23:40:52]

wagnerrp:

because you compiled trunk, while youre running fixes

[23:41:11]

jamesd2:

sphery, yes that could works, but hard to deal with dual boot of my son's laptop just to watch tv.. he is happy with mythtv player, it intergrates fairly well with mythtv's backend...

[23:41:27]

jolaren:

wagnerrp; yeah, might be so.. didn't really think about it

[23:41:36]

jolaren:

wagnerrp; but i'm not doin it again for a while.. can't be arsed really

[23:42:11]

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[23:43:02]

jolaren:

Are there any advantages in running the trunk rep on the server btw?

[23:43:08]

jolaren:

Or is it just plain stupid for the regular user

[23:43:33]

jamesd2:

jolaren, new features, older bugs could of been fixed, newer bugs introdued...

[23:43:48]

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[23:44:00]

jolaren:

So pretty much same-o same-o

[23:44:16]

jolaren:

Btw, the mythbuntu installer cd, if you choose only to install the backend.. will it bring X?

[23:44:27]

jolaren:

Just came to think about it the other day when I installed the live-cd

[23:45:05]

jamesd2:

i like the new user interface options for newer code, but dont want to deal with updating and finding new bugs... family hates not being able to watch tv because something broke

[23:45:12]

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[23:45:52]

jolaren:

yer i guess that' would rly be an issue round me aswell

[23:46:32]

jolaren:

I need two more tuners thought, thinkin about buyin yet annother hauppage card but their quite expensive

[23:46:57]

jolaren:

i'm goin insane when me girl watches one prog and my kid looks at annother one

[23:47:07]

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[23:47:19]

jamesd2:

its all a double edge sword us geeks live with, we all want to get our families excited about the technology, but once they do begin to like it... there is hell to pay when it breaks...

[23:47:59]

jolaren:

yer really

[23:49:45]

jolaren:

i dont want to waste my 2 usb slots either

[23:50:40]

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[23:50:42]

sphery:

jamesd2: IMHO, lying about the supported protocol and database schema version it supports isn't "integrates fairly well" :)

[23:50:59]

sphery:

though depending on what it does, it may not be too serious an issue

[23:51:19]

jamesd2:

you can get a usb hub but even at its best.. usb is good for little more than keyboards and mouses and slow disk

[23:52:20]

sphery:

definitely true

[23:52:26]

jamesd2:

sphery, users rarely care about protocols and database schemas.. they click on live TV, and pick a channel from the list or click on recorded shows and pick a recording to watch and then click on play and a window opens...

[23:52:27]

sphery:

I hope USB3 solves that issue

[23:53:04]

sphery:

jamesd2: until they click on LiveTV and find out that not only does the client fail to work, but so is the backend, because the client corrupted the data in the database...

[23:53:37]

jolaren:

usb hubs aren't that great are they? i mean I bet that will cause problems with the card reading part

[23:53:38]

sphery:

but if it's just reading data, it may not cause that issue

[23:53:45]

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[23:53:56]

sphery:

I would bet that with a USB hub, you'll have USB drop outs all the time

[23:54:11]

sphery:

Myth does /not/ like for anything to rip a card out from under it

[23:54:11]

jamesd2:

sphery, guess i have been lucky so far.. of course that could be considered a bug why can a frontend (non admin user) corrupt the database...

[23:54:31]

sphery:

because the client is hitting the DB directly

[23:54:38]

jolaren:

sphery; my thoughts exactly

[23:55:20]

jolaren:

i'm thinking about getting a 2x1 pci card .. but that would mean I have to run "topless" i.e without the top of my rack

[23:55:23]

jolaren:

that wouldnt b to good

[23:55:25]

sphery:

and, yeah, we need to solve that problem, but it means not only fixing myth to allow access to all data without direct DB access, but also means getting the 3rd party clients that don't care about protocols and schema versions to change

[23:55:35]

jamesd2:

sphery, clients should only be able to run select queries on the database, never insert.. except from an API that protects against corruption.

[23:55:36]

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[23:55:51]

sphery:

jamesd2: patches greatly appreciate

[23:55:59]

sphery:

though, really, the client should /never/ hit the DB

[23:56:10]

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[23:56:10]

sphery:

(nor should it need to)

[23:56:25]

sphery:

we've just got a long way to go to get there

[23:56:34]

sphery:

and we have tons of users who hit the DB directly because they can

[23:56:39]

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[23:56:42]

jamesd2:

sphery, true, exceptions would be to get a channel list or list of recorded shows...

[23:56:42]

sphery:

and stopping them all will be very difficult

[23:56:54]

sphery:

nope, even that should come directly from the backend

[23:57:06]

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[23:57:25]

jolaren:

btw is it possible to have 2 different logins to the mysql database?

[23:57:35]

wagnerrp:

sure

[23:58:03]

sphery:

but all myth backends and frontends will need ALL permissions on the DB, so...

[23:58:26]

keith4__:

oh man. 22 freakin' rocks

[23:58:31]

jamesd2:

jolaren, it only really gets complicated when you start debbuging issues about which login is being used... mysql is very flexible about user authenication.

[23:58:31]

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[23:58:44]

jolaren:

Aight

[23:58:54]

sphery:

keith4__: pretty isn't it :)

[23:59:00]

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[23:59:18]

keith4__:

the WAF is off the charts!

[23:59:22]

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[23:59:29]

jamesd2:

is there a linux distro that installs or better yet updates an older version of mythtv painlessly?

[23:59:46]

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[23:59:48]

jamesd2:

to version .22

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