Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Monday, February 8th, 2010, 00:01 AST

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[01:31:16]

oobe:

anyone know how to fix this i just plugged some pc speakers into a lcdtv and the tv cant control the volume of the external speakers

[01:31:41]

oobe:

i googled it and i found 2 ppl asking the same question and no one answered

[01:32:12]

wagnerrp:

apparently because you plugged the speakers into a line out, instead of a headphone out

[01:37:49]

oobe:

there is no head phone out just video out 1 and 2 with left and right audio

[01:38:04]

oobe:

was thinking the same thing i will have another look though incase im mistaken

[01:39:26]

oobe:

there is a plug called coaxial with ( digital sound output) in the manual

[01:39:41]

oobe:

but its hard for me to see what sort of connector its using

[01:40:22]

oobe:

it looks like 3.5mm in directions but i tried a 3.5mm jack but it didnt go in right

[01:40:33]

oobe:

didnt feel right and no sound came out

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jaymz-duck:

oobe: this is normal behaviour... the outputs of a tv are generally line out, which is immune to the local volume control

[01:50:09]

oobe:

yeah pity

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[02:10:27]

oobe:

jaymz-duck, so would using the coaxial digital audio work if i could find the right cable

[02:11:14]

[R]:

there is no "right cvable" to plug regular speakers into a digital audio out

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[02:14:57]

oobe:

ok

[02:15:10]

oobe:

so i guess thats the best i can do

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jaymz-duck:

hrm, give up and blow the whole database away time

[03:16:48]

jaymz-duck:

whee!@

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Traveler6 is now known as mtrax

[04:49:41]

mtrax:

does anyone know what 0.23 will bring us, or is it mainly a bug-fix release?

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[05:44:50]

justinh:

mtrax: try reading the notes for 0.23 on the wiki

[05:45:43]

sid3windr:

WHAT

[05:45:45]

sid3windr:

DOCS!?

[05:46:53]

justinh:

heh not much here though http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Release_Notes_-_0.23

[05:47:25]

sid3windr:

:)

[05:47:27]

sid3windr:

indeed

[05:47:37]

sid3windr:

am I reading it correctly that for now only some mythvideo enhancements are planned?

[05:47:43]

sid3windr:

as the others are titles without any content

[05:48:19]

justinh:

I dunno. presumably there's a few bug fixes too

[05:49:01]

justinh:

feature-wise there's not much I'm aware of other than some functionality enhancements to the watch recordings menu, cleanup of unused settings..

[05:49:31]

justinh:

for the real skinny on what's changed you'd need to read a bunch of commit logs

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[06:23:24]

justinh:

http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/timeline might give a better idea

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[06:27:53]

justinh:

http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/23442 is one of my personal favourites :)

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[07:19:29]

mtrax:

ok thanks

[07:21:07]

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[07:36:26]

justinh:

all of this of course, is neglecting to mention the most important new plugin for a while.. mythnetvision :)

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Dibblah:

Nah. Noone watches streams over the intertubes.

[07:52:58]

justinh:

nobody archives shows to watch on dvd players either :)

[07:57:06]

justinh:

come to think about it, who even watched TV anymore?

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[08:12:12]

justinh:

heh that looked like I've been practising my manglish

[08:19:23]

ivor:

hmm mythbackend running at 105%, what the hells it doing now.

[08:23:07]

AndyCap:

it's going to kill a friend.

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[08:41:55]

Faithful:

is nvidia a must have for Mythtv?

[08:42:25]

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[08:43:16]

TauPan:

nope

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[08:54:22]

stuarticus:

Hi, anyone know about the romdb file for populating the game list? I'm getting not a valid tar file...

[09:04:45]

stuarticus:

Got it now, but I can't merge with database, access denied for myhtv @ localhost...

[09:04:59]

stuarticus:

IS there a default msyql password?

[09:05:28]

justinh:

ah sounds like a *buntu-ism

[09:05:44]

stuarticus:

mythbuntu

[09:05:51]

justinh:

the mythtv mysql user password is generally randomised

[09:06:11]

justinh:

you should be able to find out what it is by looking in /etc/mythtv/mysql.txt IIRC

[09:07:26]

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[09:07:29]

stuarticus:

bang on

[09:10:24]

justinh:

re nvidia being a must-have – it *is* if you want hardware accelerated video decoding. As we've gone over several times before

[09:11:35]

zkab:

i compiled 0.22 and lirc 0.8.6 (have streamzap remote), irw and irxevent gives OK result but mythtv gives me: Warning: Attempt to convert LIRC key sequence 'Key m CurrentWindow' to Qt key sequence failed ... and remote dont work

[09:12:36]

justinh:

why use irxevent? you should be using lirc with a ~/.mythtv/lircrc or ~/.lircrc file

[09:12:42]

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[09:16:12]

bjd:

anyone have any experience with the prof revolution cards? or are they ones to avoid?

[09:16:35]

justinh:

with what? que?

[09:16:48]

zkab:

justinh: just used irxevent to test my lircrc file

[09:17:26]

justinh:

bjd: chances are if they ain't mentioned in the linuxtv.org wiki, they won't be worth looking at

[09:18:07]

bjd:

forgot about that wiki

[09:18:09]

bjd:

ta :D

[09:19:04]

justinh:

the amount of PCIe cards supported in linux can be counted on the fingers of 2 hands AFAIK

[09:19:14]

justinh:

as far as tuners are concerned

[09:20:14]

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[09:20:33]

justinh:

http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/DVB-S2_PCIe_Cards

[09:20:45]

justinh:

well it mentions 'prof' tuner cards but it's not good news

[09:21:24]

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[09:23:20]

bjd:

heh

[09:23:38]

bjd:

not even sure that is actually a twin input card anyway dispite the fact it has two input sockets

[09:24:05]

bjd:

ah

[09:24:09]

bjd:

lnb in, loop out

[09:24:19]

zkab:

justinh: i start mythbackend and after that mythfrontend ... mythfrontend tells me "LIRC: Successfully initialized '/dev/lircd' using '/home/mythtv/.lircrc config ... but pressing a key on remote gives me error as mentioned before

[09:31:13]

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[09:32:41]

bjd:

also, the HD stuff on freesat is just dvb-s isnt it?

[09:38:28]

justinh:

yup

[09:38:33]

justinh:

for now at least

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[09:45:23]

justinh:

still amuses me when folks say 'the hd on freesat'. All 1.5 channels of it or so

[09:52:49]

jduggan:

heh

[10:00:43]

ivor:

justinh: BBC HD, what more do you need? :)

[10:01:20]

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[10:01:35]

bjd:

Yeah well

[10:01:51]

bjd:

might just wait for dvb-t2, we might have 2 channels by then!

[10:02:26]

justinh:

I'm still waiting for all freeview channels to go 16:9

[10:03:16]

justinh:

can't say I'm a big fan of widescreen shows letterboxed into 4:3 streams

[10:03:23]

** ivor ivor checks... BBC4, tick, BBC1, tick, CBeebies, tick. all look fine. :) **

[10:04:02]

justinh:

heh my most watched channel (apart from what my wife records) is BBC4

[10:05:38]

justinh:

DELETE FROM channel where name like "%ITV%"; :D

[10:06:03]

justinh:

"oh yeah, did you not catch the news? ITV went bust"

[10:15:41]

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[10:20:57]

ivor:

sigh. what is it with random private messages.

[10:22:04]

justinh:

/ignore * MSG etc :)

[10:22:17]

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[10:22:44]

ivor:

yeah well there are people i know who message.

[10:23:17]

justinh:

think you can set specific unignores for those

[10:23:54]

justinh:

I'd prefer a network-wide banning policy. No ask, you get banned :)

[10:24:09]

ivor:

and your legs broken.

[10:24:32]

justinh:

I heard in the old days that was likely

[10:24:36]

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[10:26:31]

XLV:

here in greece the situation is even worse.. the state channels two years ago started an experimentan transmission in mpeg2, and up to 6 months ago, few TVs sold had mpeg4 tuners, only mpeg2, now the private channels started experimental transmission in mpeg4..

[10:26:36]

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[10:26:49]

XLV:

so about 300K TVs sold in the last two-three years are already obsolete

[10:27:12]

XLV:

and they dont even provide any advantage, picture/sound quality wise

[10:27:43]

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[10:27:56]

XLV:

sd transmission, some even report problems in high paced scenes ( eg sports viewing )

[10:28:29]

XLV:

no hd, not even 720p, no surround sound.. i guess they want to go to 8channels per frequency scheme, to minimize costs

[10:28:42]

[Peter]:

I wouldn't say a TV is obsolete because you can't use the built-in tuner

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[10:30:24]

GreyFoxx:

If that is your primary(and for some people only) source of signal then it would be obsolete

[10:30:53]

[Peter]:

GreyFoxx: just get a external tuner box?

[10:31:16]

GreyFoxx:

I didn't say useless, but his TV is obsolete if that is required

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[12:22:53]

XLV:

[Peter], no its not obsolete.. however external tuners will make life more difficult to those not technologically inclined, eg imagine your grandfather having to switch to hdmi external source, and have two remotes instead of one, changing volume from one, channes from the other

[12:24:09]

XLV:

and yeah, i would welcome all the problems, if they provided at least a hint of technological advancement.. however, with sd transmission not even good as a dvd, and only stereo sound ( plus the talks about going to 8channels per frequency ), nope, i got to whine a bit

[12:24:18]

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[12:24:57]

justinh:

I think there's general opposition to broadcast being as good as disc formats ;-)

[12:25:19]

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[12:25:40]

XLV:

justdave, in the era of bd, having a dvd quality broadcast i dont think its something that will lure people away of getting the new formats

[12:25:55]

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[12:26:22]

justinh:

I don't think the content providers care

[12:26:33]

justinh:

well care about viewers I mean

[12:26:50]

justinh:

other than bums on seats. tech quality went out of the window with analogue

[12:27:18]

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[12:27:45]

XLV:

they dont especially in greece

[12:27:59]

XLV:

from 89 they still transmit with temporary permits

[12:28:14]

XLV:

i dont even know if they have payed yet a cent for the utlization of frequencies

[12:28:22]

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[12:28:30]

justinh:

oh I expect they will in time

[12:28:38]

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[12:28:44]

XLV:

ofcourse thats our fault, voting for lamers/sold-out bastards

[12:28:50]

XLV:

justinh, i doubt it

[12:28:56]

justinh:

like there's any kind of choice!

[12:29:05]

XLV:

this isnt northern europe, its the balkans

[12:29:24]

justinh:

my wife's cousin used to be an OK guy

[12:29:33]

justinh:

since he became a politician though.. oh dear

[12:29:44]

justinh:

he looks like one, talks like one & even walks like one

[12:29:52]

XLV:

true that.. for quite a while people everywhere vote with the criteria who's the least lame or sold-out not who's the most capable

[12:30:12]

XLV:

justdave, atleast did you get any benefits?

[12:30:15]

exh_:

hi – do you know when the BE fires-off the set wakeup time command, I'm trying to test what value it's sending to wakealarm

[12:30:26]

justinh:

when in reality it's civil servants who make the small decisions which affect us day to day

[12:30:33]

justinh:

and we don't even get to vote for them

[12:30:54]

justinh:

exh_: isn't that usually done with a script? get the script to echo what it gets ;-)

[12:31:09]

justinh:

XLV: there's no benefit to knowing a politician IMHO

[12:31:16]

exh_:

I have.. it's goin to log file.. so far nothing

[12:31:29]

XLV:

justinh, thats not the case here

[12:31:46]

XLV:

justinh, you get from state job to state contract

[12:31:49]

justinh:

XLV: I mean I've got nothing to offer a politician in return for favours ;-)

[12:32:04]

justinh:

& it's too late in life to become a rent boy

[12:32:20]

XLV:

justinh, meh.. is pride edible?

[12:32:27]

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[12:37:58]

exh_:

OK, so my question should be does the wakeup script get run when the BE goes to shut down?

[12:38:07]

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[12:38:43]

justinh:

exh_: I dunno. I have no interest in these matters. the wiki page is pretty extensive IIRC

[12:39:06]

wagnerrp:

the backend has to run a script to set the RTC timer, to tell the machine when to wake back up

[12:41:18]

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[12:41:32]

jesperj:

Can mythtv stream video to Xbox 360?

[12:41:43]

Hiisty:

yes

[12:41:46]

exh_:

When does the BE set the RTC timer.. I have all the scripts done, set to execute, setup in Mythtv-Setup and have tested the wakeup manually

[12:42:04]

jesperj:

Hiisty: \o/ That's great news.

[12:42:57]

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[12:45:08]

exh_:

I've been through the Wiki many times, it doesn't mention at what point my setwakeup.sh would get run, and I know it hasn't been run yet from my log file

[12:45:10]

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[12:45:32]

iamlindoro:

jesperj: If you are asking about recordings, the answer is no

[12:45:48]

iamlindoro:

if you are asking about MythVideo content, the answer is "some"

[12:46:27]

jesperj:

iamlindoro: I want to stream movies from my linux machine to the xbox 360

[12:46:52]

iamlindoro:

jesperj: Then you will need to make sure your movies use a contain and codec format supported by the 360

[12:47:00]

iamlindoro:

er container

[12:47:39]

jesperj:

iamlindoro: yes. but that limitation I think we allready suffer from right now when we stream from gf's windows computer which uses tversity.

[12:48:14]

jesperj:

we get errors about format not supported. so that wont make much a difference heh. I just would be happy if we could stream some movies from my linux pc also that would work with the xbox

[12:48:19]

jesperj:

even if not all formats will work

[12:49:07]

iamlindoro:

Should be pretty much the same, then. Just do be aware that no Myth recordings will work on your 360

[12:49:41]

jesperj:

iamlindoro: Ok. I'm new to mythtv so I don't even know what a recording is, but I will keep that in mind when I read the documentation

[12:50:25]

jesperj:

First I just wanted to come in here and check that mythtv can stream movies to the xbox 360, although as you say limited to only the supported formats by the xbox

[12:50:29]

jesperj:

and that is good news

[12:50:31]

jesperj:

thanks for the info

[12:50:40]

wagnerrp:

a recording... a show that you have recorded... from some capture device

[12:51:08]

jesperj:

wagnerrp: that is what it sounds like yes, and apparently it was exactly what it sounded like

[12:51:12]

jesperj:

:)

[12:51:26]

jesperj:

thanks

[12:52:26]

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[13:04:25]

** justinh petitions the developers to rename 'recordings' to 'happening thingies' **

[13:04:35]

justinh:

'recordings' is just too damn obvious a name

[13:04:48]

iamlindoro:

put it to a vote on the users list, I hear that's how things get done

[13:04:49]

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[13:05:07]

justinh:

hmm. I heard I had to open a ticket & petition there

[13:05:18]

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[13:05:50]

justinh:

maximum chance is gained by doing them all ways of course :D

[13:06:28]

justinh:

get that 'live' typo changed back to 'evil' too

[13:07:12]

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[13:07:55]

kslater:

can anyone recommend a decently good ATSC capture card for the US that doesn't cost an arm and a leg?

[13:08:09]

justinh:

how much do arms & legs cost?

[13:08:20]

kslater:

lots for me!

[13:08:34]

devinheitmueller:

Also, do you just need ATSC, or do you need ClearQAM and analog as well?

[13:08:41]

justinh:

I heard those RealDoll(tm) things weren't cheap

[13:08:54]

devinheitmueller:

and do you need PCI? PCIe? USB?

[13:09:06]

kslater:

PCI, no need for QAM

[13:09:17]

devinheitmueller:

kslater: and what about analog support?

[13:09:29]

kslater:

in the US, analog is no longer

[13:09:45]

devinheitmueller:

kslater: many people still rely on analog in order to hook it to the output of their cable box.

[13:09:52]

kslater:

ah

[13:10:10]

devinheitmueller:

But if you are only interested in OTA ATSC, that's fine by me. :-)

[13:10:15]

kslater:

just looking for straight up ATSC OTA

[13:10:31]

devinheitmueller:

Do you need one tuner or two?

[13:10:46]

kslater:

hmm, really only 'need' one I guess

[13:11:12]

devinheitmueller:

Well, the PCTV 800i is a pretty good card at $69.99 – http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815116043

[13:11:21]

devinheitmueller:

I don't know if that constitutes "an arm and a leg" though.

[13:12:08]

devinheitmueller:

It also has analog, but it uses a framegrabber (which makes it a poor choice for MythTV)

[13:13:49]

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[13:14:31]

devinheitmueller:

There aren't many dual ATSC tuner PCI devices. If PCIe were an option, you could go with the HVR-2250.

[13:14:49]

kslater:

maybe pci e is. have to check the machine again.

[13:15:09]

devinheitmueller:

Last I checked, the 2250 was something like $130.

[13:15:19]

devinheitmueller:

Again, it all depends on what constitutes "an arm and a leg"

[13:15:44]

kslater:

right. lowest cost with the best tuner would be my criteria

[13:15:54]

devinheitmueller:

Well, those are somewhat contradictory goals.

[13:16:09]

kslater:

I have an old atsc capture card, but the tuner is terrible compared to what my sony tv can do

[13:16:12]

devinheitmueller:

Since the cards with the "best tuner" are most likely not the lowest cost.

[13:16:22]

devinheitmueller:

which card do you have now?

[13:16:54]

** kslater goes to look at dmesg to see what it is **

[13:16:59]

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[13:17:30]

devinheitmueller:

But to your point, the quality of the tuner and demodulator chips in general have improved across the board.

[13:18:19]

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[13:18:27]

justinh:

add to that the fact that inside a PC is hardly hospitable to tiny RF signals ;-)

[13:18:42]

devinheitmueller:

justinh: well, that's why the tuner is inside an RF shield.

[13:18:53]

justinh:

well some are

[13:19:07]

justinh:

I have one silicon tuner where there are no cans at all

[13:19:07]

devinheitmueller:

I'm pretty sure an RF shield is standard for all internal cards.

[13:19:21]

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[13:19:41]

kslater:

Air2PC/AirStar 2 ATSC 1st generation

[13:19:47]

devinheitmueller:

justinh: every card I have seen, even those with silicon tuners, do have a can (although the can is *much* smaller than the versions without a silicon tuner)

[13:19:47]

justinh:

no screening cans, very little in the way of PSU decoupling either

[13:19:54]

justinh:

needless to say, it's crap

[13:20:10]

kslater:

justinh: my card you mean?

[13:20:11]

justinh:

there's literally NO can on this avermedia super 007 thing

[13:20:16]

high-rez:

I'm seeing this: 2010-02–07 22:26:49.915 playCtx, Error: Attempting to setup a player, but it already exists.

[13:20:25]

high-rez:

I've seen this quite a lot – is this a known issue ?

[13:20:59]

devinheitmueller:

kslater: yeah, that's a really old design. Even the cheapest tuners will be far better nowadays.

[13:21:35]

kslater:

devinheitmueller: so the Happauge you called out above, would be a good upgrade then?

[13:21:54]

justinh:

here we go.. no cans: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2659/4212474702_ca125a2200_b.jpg

[13:22:04]

kslater:

should I consider fleabay to find a bargain?

[13:22:05]

devinheitmueller:

justinh: yeah, that is surprising. Maybe it's just because almost all of the boards I deal with are Hauppauge or PCTV, and some of the bottom-feeders are skipping the can to reduce cost.

[13:22:40]

devinheitmueller:

justinh: wow, that board design is actually intended to have a can, but they didn't populate it.

[13:22:49]

justinh:

yup

[13:22:56]

devinheitmueller:

I guess you get what you pay for.

[13:22:56]

justinh:

I thought that when I got mine

[13:23:09]

justinh:

it works, but not as well as a dual USB dvb-t tuner I got for less

[13:23:24]

bjd:

t500?

[13:23:37]

devinheitmueller:

I could argue that's a lesson learned about vendors for the next time you buy a board.

[13:23:59]

justinh:

funnily enough the USB one is also avermedia branded

[13:24:11]

GreyFoxx:

exh:

[13:24:20]

devinheitmueller:

justinh: the USB ones tend to be stock reference designs, and none of them have RF shields.

[13:24:32]

devinheitmueller:

(rebranded stock reference designs)

[13:24:37]

justinh:

heh well it works better than the internal one

[13:24:54]

justinh:

devinheitmueller: nearly all the cards I own are rebranded ref. designs

[13:24:59]

devinheitmueller:

Part of that may be the quality of the drivers too, depending on the chipsets involved.

[13:25:00]

justinh:

it's the cheapest way to go

[13:25:12]

devinheitmueller:

Yup.

[13:25:53]

devinheitmueller:

kslater: yeah, that's a pretty good board – it's the one I use in my production MythTV box.

[13:26:13]

kslater:

ok, I'll get my sister to foot the bill on her upgrade parts. :-)

[13:26:20]

** devinheitmueller is inherently biased though since he did a bunch of driver work on that board. **

[13:26:22]

justinh:

the super 007 worked better in a different machine though.. prolly PSU related or something

[13:26:22]

kslater:

I'm saving her a bundle anyway

[13:26:45]

justinh:

time for hometime time!

[13:27:33]

devinheitmueller:

kslater: the upside of my bias though is that you can be confident that board works (and if something gets broken, it *will* be fixed since I rely on it myself)

[13:27:51]

kslater:

yeah, good to know!

[13:28:12]

kslater:

the old crappy card is doing it's job, just needs a lot more signal to lock on.

[13:28:35]

devinheitmueller:

Of the 20+ tuners I own, regressions sometimes go unnoticed. But that is less likely to occur on a board that I use on a daily basis.

[13:30:44]

kslater:

justinh: devinheitmueller: thanks for the advice

[13:30:49]

devinheitmueller:

np

[13:33:29]

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[13:47:33]

ikkeT:

hi, how do I get recorded HD material to be played using more than 1 CPU?

[13:47:55]

ikkeT:

in addition to configuring the tv player to use 2 CPUs

[13:48:14]

ikkeT:

for some reason mythtv-internal player insists of using only 1 CPU

[13:48:29]

ikkeT:

thus breaking the play every few seconds

[13:49:07]

ikkeT:

is threading a missing feature, or is it supposed to work

[13:49:11]

ikkeT:

?

[13:49:12]

iamlindoro:

Only H.264 can use more than one processor, and that's only when encoded properly

[13:49:41]

iamlindoro:

meaning you are only seeing one processor being used because either the codec or the encoding only allow for Myth to use on processor

[13:49:42]

iamlindoro:

er one

[13:51:30]

ikkeT:

it seems to be h264, this is what mplayer spits out:

[13:51:41]

iamlindoro:

"and that's only when encoded properly"

[13:51:55]

iamlindoro:

So your content was single-slice encoded, so Myth can only decode using a single procesor

[13:52:19]

ikkeT:

TS file format detected. VIDEO H264(pid=401)

[13:52:34]

ikkeT:

so it doesn't yet say the threading possibility

[13:52:50]

ikkeT:

what would tell that slice-encoding?

[13:52:52]

XLV:

mediainfo

[13:53:06]

XLV:

http://mediainfo.sourceforge.net/en

[13:53:17]

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[13:54:05]

ikkeT:

any flag for mplayer to give that info?

[13:54:42]

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[13:55:06]

stuartm:

ikkeT: ffmpeg -i <filename>

[13:55:26]

stuartm:

oh, slicing, wasn't reading

[13:55:30]

iamlindoro:

pretty sure that won't give slice #

[13:55:49]

ikkeT:

xine stream info gave channels:0

[13:55:53]

ikkeT:

maybe it's that

[13:56:02]

iamlindoro:

No

[13:56:46]

stuartm:

iamlindoro: yeah, like I said, I wasn't really reading the conversation

[13:57:03]

ikkeT:

Stream #0.0[0x191]: Video: h264, yuv420p, 1920x1080 [PAR 1:1 DAR 16:9], 50 tbr, 90k tbn, 50 tbc

[13:57:11]

ikkeT:

from ffmpeg -i

[13:57:11]

iamlindoro:

stuartm: Didn't see your correction until I sent the message

[13:57:20]

iamlindoro:

ikkeT: That will not give you the information you want

[13:57:42]

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[13:57:49]

iamlindoro:

Anyway, there's really no point-- the fact that you are seeing the content forced to a single processor means slices=1

[13:58:05]

ikkeT:

ok, that's an answer then

[13:58:22]

iamlindoro:

Which is quite common in broadcasting-- they expect the content to be decoded by hardware, not my multicore processors

[13:58:26]

iamlindoro:

er not by

[13:58:35]

ikkeT:

I recorded something from finnish dvb-c, and it's so close to be watchable...

[13:58:47]

ikkeT:

watcheable

[13:58:54]

iamlindoro:

Could always get a modern nVidia GPU and use VDPAU

[13:59:20]

ikkeT:

i've been thinking of that too. just hate the damn binary drivers

[13:59:27]

ikkeT:

every upgrade breaks them...

[13:59:29]

XLV:

overclock the cpu a bit

[13:59:34]

ikkeT:

:)

[13:59:52]

ikkeT:

well not every, but few times a year was my previous experience

[14:00:11]

XLV:

htpc has a c2d e6320, at nominal 1.86GHz it had some problems with some content, at 2.5GHz its now it hasnt

[14:00:15]

ikkeT:

switched to intel couple years back to avoid it. Then came HD... :(

[14:00:45]

ikkeT:

E6750 @ 2.66GHz can't play it...

[14:01:10]

ikkeT:

dual-core

[14:01:35]

XLV:

idk then.. must be a very heavy or with weird options encoded content

[14:02:48]

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[14:03:09]

ikkeT:

actually never succeeded playing HD with mythtv on it. xine and mplayer do it threading

[14:03:12]

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[14:03:34]

iamlindoro:

unlikely

[14:03:43]

ikkeT:

it should work in theory, any hints welcome :)

[14:03:45]

iamlindoro:

since we all share the same decoding code

[14:03:49]

high-rez:

Its funny how vdpau has pretty much made nvidia the /only/ choice for really using myth. It's amazing how opensource friendly intel and ati are – yet neither has a good solution (vaapi isn't a good solution unless theres drivers that support it :)

[14:03:54]

iamlindoro:

more likely they decode in one core and deinterlace on the other

[14:04:20]

iamlindoro:

high-rez: There are drivers that support it-- just not much support in libavcodec or players

[14:04:41]

iamlindoro:

ATI's proprietary drivers support VAAPI, as do a couple of the intel drivers

[14:04:51]

high-rez:

iamlindoro: Really? I had thought intel came out with a vaapi specification and never released a driver for it.

[14:05:05]

high-rez:

Interesting.

[14:05:05]

iamlindoro:

poulsbo driver does VA-API

[14:05:42]

high-rez:

Did anything ever happen with xvba too then?

[14:05:42]

iamlindoro:

and on the ATI side, fglrx

[14:06:01]

iamlindoro:

fglrx does XvBA, which is still completely closed source, but has a bolt-on for VA-API

[14:06:20]

iamlindoro:

so yes, you can use XvBA, but via VA-API

[14:06:25]

high-rez:

Interesting.

[14:07:01]

high-rez:

have you any personal experience with either of these apis or hardware platforms?

[14:07:18]

iamlindoro:

Nope, only hearsay

[14:07:46]

iamlindoro:

I know they both work, but someone myth-side would need to take an interest for us to get any support for them

[14:08:06]

high-rez:

Sure.

[14:08:33]

high-rez:

It seems that nvidia beat everyone to the punch – and vdpau became defacto just by the large number of software that support it.

[14:08:34]

XLV:

iamlindoro, i have seen some hits that vaapi works on ati gpus with their binary drivers

[14:08:35]

iamlindoro:

and since most of us own/are satisfied with nVidia/have been burned by ATI, nobody has yet come forward to do the work

[14:08:50]

iamlindoro:

XLV: I just said that like four times

[14:09:27]

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[14:09:45]

high-rez:

Yeah its a shame that ati did such a terrible job with their drivers, consistently. They've often had very good hardware – but less-than-half-hearted linux support.

[14:10:03]

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[14:10:05]

ikkeT:

any of you having passive vdpau device?

[14:10:17]

iamlindoro:

When XvBA was still being hinted at, we had at least two people willing to do the work

[14:10:19]

ikkeT:

recommendations?

[14:10:25]

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[14:10:41]

iamlindoro:

by the time nVidia beat them to the punch and ATI went another 18 months without ever making XvBA public, those people had changed their minds

[14:10:44]

stuartm:

in the past, I'd say their linux support now is at least half-hearted

[14:11:47]

high-rez:

Well I guess thats a big jump from less-than-half-hearted. :)

[14:12:12]

high-rez:

Hey, if they have fully opensource drivers in the future – which support reasonable video acceleration – I'll jump ship.

[14:13:00]

high-rez:

I don't think i've used an ATi/AMD card since the 9800 Pro. Without a doubt, it was good hardware.

[14:13:26]

stuartm:

the work they did in such a short space of time was impressive, but ATi are only too willing to admit that linux is not their top priority, apparently linux users amounts to less than 1% of their business (excluding commercial, which is the whole reason they even have a linux driver)

[14:14:00]

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[14:14:50]

stuartm:

high-rez: like Nvidia they can't ever go 100% open source, both companies use third party chips and tech on their boards but more so ATi. ATi can't secure the rights to open source the APIs for that stuff

[14:15:24]

high-rez:

Sure. I never expect to see hdcp opensourced.

[14:16:39]

high-rez:

I wouldn't even care if the microcode that ran on the GPU was opensource – as long as the interfaces to it were fully available.

[14:16:41]

stuartm:

ATi have opensourced what they can, which is why we have very good opensource drivers for ATi cards but nothing to really show for Nvidia

[14:17:08]

high-rez:

I thought the ati opensource stuff was all 2d at this point ?

[14:17:37]

high-rez:

The nouveau guys are pretty darned impressive. Amazing how much they've reverse engineered. :)

[14:17:44]

ikkeT:

i have ati r600 which just crashes with 3d

[14:18:09]

stuartm:

only reason ATi maintain their own driver is so that commercial users can benefit from the features/tech that they couldn't provide datasheets for and thus aren't supported in the OSS driver

[14:18:51]

ikkeT:

i thought to buy ati since they opened some time ago. mistake so far....

[14:18:58]

stuartm:

r600 is pretty old?

[14:19:39]

ikkeT:

It was new at the time they oss'd

[14:19:40]

stuartm:

I'm not sure how the version numbers run with ATi, but my old IGP board was an RS690 and it was old tech even when I bought it

[14:20:04]

stuartm:

ikkeT: new technology, or just new from the shop?

[14:20:40]

stuartm:

I can still buy Geforce 4s, doesn't make them new

[14:21:34]

ikkeT:

2400xt , u'r right, new at shop that time

[14:22:29]

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[14:32:45]

Fony_Vaio:

To UK DVB-T users: Although not strictly a myth problem, could you suggest a solution to poor signal strength from a shared rooftop aerial? I have no idea if how it's configured (no access), and an alternative antenna placed within around the window gives almost no signal. Are there particular amps worth looking at?

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[14:50:23]

ubun2Junky:

wondering if apple tv is compatible with mythtv?

[14:52:03]

iamlindoro:

compatible in what respect?

[14:52:43]

ubun2Junky:

can you run backend and frontend on it?

[14:53:35]

ubun2Junky:

I found instructions on frontend, but was wondering on having everything on a single box? Was considering getting a hdhomerun and using appletv to watch tv.

[14:55:31]

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[14:55:38]

iamlindoro:

the apple TV is underpowered just for the frontend, trying to run both on it is a recipe for disaster

[14:56:39]

ubun2Junky:

hmm... mac mini would be better then?

[14:56:52]

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[14:57:14]

iamlindoro:

a mini would be much more likely to work

[14:59:20]

mag0o:

cooper?

[15:00:08]

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[15:00:09]

kormoc:

I use a mini (early 2009) just fine, just remember, it's IO is crap and things take longer cause of that

[15:00:15]

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[15:01:09]

ubun2Junky:

kormoc: i/o? having issues writing and reading from mini?

[15:01:18]

kormoc:

it's just slow

[15:01:38]

kormoc:

and your database is on the backend (typically), so all the database interactions are slow

[15:01:50]

kormoc:

it's perfectly livable with, just a FYI if you think things are slughish

[15:02:15]

ubun2Junky:

kormoc: so if you had to do it over again, what would you do differently?

[15:02:25]

kormoc:

nope

[15:02:27]

kormoc:

erm

[15:02:32]

kormoc:

I wouldn't do anything different

[15:02:51]

kormoc:

planning to switch out the drive for a SSD when they're cheaper, that's bout all I plan to do

[15:03:08]

kormoc:

I use a usb harddrive for my actual recording storage (1tb) and a hdpvr for the capturing

[15:03:31]

SirColin:

im seeing a lot of frame buffer issues with mythtv and ubuntu karmic i have a 2 x novat500 and a 9400gt after some updates. Is the a current issue with this hardware does anyone know ?

[15:04:47]

ubun2Junky:

i was considering using my nas for the storage.

[15:05:10]

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[15:05:16]

kormoc:

I'm using wifi for the network access, so I wasn't going to rely on it working for myth to work, YMMV

[15:06:58]

ubun2Junky:

kormoc: when you say things are slow, do you refer to the response time from the mini or the screen? I have an old pc that I used to have mythbuntu running on it. but unfortunately the little pc got really hot and had to add fans... now my living room sounds like the server room. was looking for something small, attractive and quiet!

[15:07:04]

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[15:08:50]

devinheitmueller:

SirColin: if you're having issues with the Nova-T 500, you should make sure you are running the latest v4l-dvb code.

[15:09:19]

SirColin:

i was has in changed in the last 2 months or so ?

[15:09:29]

devinheitmueller:

Yeah.

[15:09:30]

kormoc:

ubun2Junky: loading the recording list, or switching screens is a tad slugish, tis all

[15:09:35]

devinheitmueller:

Let me check the exact date of my fix... one sec.

[15:09:42]

kormoc:

ubun2Junky: playback is great with VDPAU

[15:09:57]

devinheitmueller:

SirColin: my fix went in on Jan 13.

[15:10:05]

devinheitmueller:

v4l-dvb hg rev 13930.

[15:10:14]

SirColin:

oooook

[15:10:31]

devinheitmueller:

SirColin: anyway, I cannot guarantee it will fix whatever you are seeing, but it's a good starting point.

[15:11:29]

SirColin:

this was fine until i ran updates a few days ago, so what your saying makes sense

[15:11:36]

SirColin:

does that mean completing all the nova t 500 ?

[15:11:44]

devinheitmueller:

SirColin: pardon?

[15:12:00]

ubun2Junky:

kormoc: what are you using for a tuner for the mini?

[15:12:23]

kormoc:

ubun2Junky: hdpvr

[15:12:31]

SirColin:

i was thinking the same thing it could be v4l-dvb

[15:12:57]

devinheitmueller:

SirColin: the fix was for a longstanding issue with the USB performance related to the 1.20 firmware. If the problem is that you were running 9.10 and recently updated to the latest fixes, the problem may be independent of the v4l-dvb drivers.

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[15:19:47]

SirColin:

well i had patched the nova t 500 driver and have had it working for some months now but after some updates im now not getting tv or video either it just moans about a frame buffer the backup is slow or just fails

[15:20:56]

devinheitmueller:

SirColin: where are you seeing those messages – in the dmesg output? In the mythbackend.log?

[15:21:41]

SirColin:

i checked both ,so not sure. i will check now

[15:22:59]

SirColin:

i also have (frame buffer has failed too many time) when the front finally crashes displayed in the front end

[15:23:08]

devinheitmueller:

SirColin: also, when you say "updates", do you mean updates to Ubuntu, or do you mean updating to the latest v4l-dvb code.

[15:23:22]

ubun2Junky:

kormoc: your hdpvr works on encrypted channels?

[15:23:22]

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[15:23:31]

devinheitmueller:

I'm just trying to narrow down whether your problem has *anything* to do with the Nova-T 500, or whether it is some generic MythTV issue.

[15:23:54]

kormoc:

ubun2Junky: I capture from my STB, so I get it all, yes

[15:23:55]

SirColin:

well the database is very slow also !

[15:24:00]

elmojo:

any Zotac ION users out there that can send me the PCI ID of their motherboard?

[15:24:20]

elmojo:

or probably the PCI ID of any ION motherboard?

[15:24:21]

wagnerrp:

ubun2Junky: technically, it doesnt receive any channels, it just receives the component output of the STB

[15:24:23]

devinheitmueller:

SirColin: Well, I'm not a MythTV developer, so no need to complain to me about the performance of the database. :-)

[15:24:33]

wagnerrp:

so anything the STB will output, the HDPVR will capture

[15:25:00]

SirColin:

lol no i mean really slow then loses connection

[15:25:34]

wagnerrp:

devinheitmueller: you probably have an answer to this.... i had just closed a ticket for an external channel changer for a digital tuner

[15:25:43]

SirColin:

my backends on holiday i think lol

[15:25:54]

wagnerrp:

now the comment was wanting to use it with an STB, which is completely useless

[15:26:05]

wagnerrp:

but for the use with an antenna rotor

[15:26:18]

wagnerrp:

would an external program be able to change the channel of an in-use digital tuner?

[15:26:18]

devinheitmueller:

hmmm....

[15:26:54]

wagnerrp:

or would mythtv have to leave the tuner open, let the script change the channel, and then access the tuner without touching the channel

[15:26:55]

devinheitmueller:

Well, you can have two apps connected to the frontend at the same time. Of course, I'm not sure how useful it would be since typically the app has to know it's doing a tuning request.

[15:27:38]

ubun2Junky:

kormoc: hmm... I just have basic comcast where I'm at... so no tv box... i like to keep my living room clear of any devices (kids like to tinker and touch!), I like the fact that hdhomerun will push signal over ethernet... not requiring to be sitting next to my tv!

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[15:27:53]

devinheitmueller:

The DVB stuff works a little different from the v4l API. But yes, you can have one app connected to the /dev/dvb/adapter0/dvr0 device displaying the video, and a second app running zap to tune to a channel.

[15:28:42]

devinheitmueller:

I probably wouldn't recommend that approach though. Would probably make more sense to add rotor support to MythTV as appropriate.

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[15:29:20]

wagnerrp:

yeah, but that would be a complex mess dealing with multiple tuners and a single antenna

[15:29:25]

kormoc:

ubun2Junky: so use it?

[15:29:53]

devinheitmueller:

Why would you connect two tuners to the same antenna?

[15:30:04]

ubun2Junky:

kormoc: I think I'm leaning that way... thx for your suggestions!

[15:30:08]

devinheitmueller:

(especially if orientation were a concern)

[15:31:11]

wagnerrp:

yeah, the consensus seemed to be rotors suck, just use multiple antennas, one for each direction

[15:31:34]

devinheitmueller:

I cannot really comment on the relative value of rotors, since I have never used one myself.

[15:32:12]

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[15:32:31]

devinheitmueller:

My proximity to the signal source has pretty much rendered any use of a rotor useless anyway.

[15:35:04]

devinheitmueller:

I guess I wouldn't really be *against* being to call out to a script if necessary (assuming the script were passed the path to the frontend device, target frequency, modulation, etc)

[15:35:33]

devinheitmueller:

wagnerrp: did the user provide a patch, or was this a feature request?

[15:36:38]

wagnerrp:

the user wanted to use it for changing the channels on their STB, assuming their STB outputted a digitally modulated signal

[15:36:47]

devinheitmueller:

uh.

[15:36:47]

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[15:36:58]

devinheitmueller:

I really doubt the STB output a digitally modulated signal.

[15:37:05]

devinheitmueller:

The user is probably confused.

[15:37:15]

wagnerrp:

right, this was a relatively unrelated discussion

[15:37:41]

devinheitmueller:

I mean, it's not impossible, but I would probably wait until such a product was made available before building any such solution.

[15:37:48]

wagnerrp:

triggered by the comment on the ( rather old and closed) ticket

[15:38:40]

devinheitmueller:

Also, any such script would likely need to not just perform the tuning request, but also monitor the status of the device after the tune was performed (so it could do things like adjust the rotor in response to the reported SNR)

[15:39:21]

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[15:39:53]

devinheitmueller:

Again, I'm not against it in principle, but at this point it sounds like a solution looking for a problem.

[15:42:15]

SirColin:

sorry for the delay ! http://pastebin.ca/1790465 http://pastebin.ca/1790468

[15:42:42]

** devinheitmueller looks **

[15:43:10]

wagnerrp:

is pastebin.ca _really slow_ for anyone else?

[15:43:18]

wagnerrp:

its been slow for probably the past month for me

[15:43:19]

devinheitmueller:

wagnerrp: yeah, it is for me.

[15:43:31]

SirColin:

i get about got it there !

[15:43:54]

SirColin:

i just about got it there !

[15:45:30]

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[15:46:13]

SirColin:

backend.log http://pastebin.ca/1790473

[15:49:12]

devinheitmueller:

Well, the dmesg looks clean in terms of the Nova-T 500, but I might be a bit concerned about all the SCSI errors your hard drive is reporting.

[15:49:26]

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[15:50:56]

SirColin:

yes i see those

[15:51:18]

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[15:52:27]

SirColin:

i think it mayb because it dual boots with windows 7, and not disk related as they are both new disks but the disk have been checked

[15:52:54]

devinheitmueller:

SirColin: Well, you can try updating to the latest v4l-dvb to rule it out, but I suspect you have something else going on here.

[15:55:14]

SirColin:

yes i agree. why's the database slowed down also, why does it freeze the keyboard and remote ? strange problems, it's just trying to figure out where to look, but thanks for looking anyways!

[15:56:03]

devinheitmueller:

SirColin: yeah, I won't be much help there. Personally my focus is in the driver area, so if the card is working properly, then one of the mythtv devs would probably be able to provide much more useful advice on where to go next.

[15:58:45]

SirColin:

il have a talk with my old friend google some more, n see what i can dig up first i think.

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[16:12:54]

bbeattie:

Recently upgraded nvidia drivers, added vdpau support (for xine/vlc, not really for myth since I don't need that performance for HDTV). However now with the new nvidia drivers (and/or libva vdpau-nvidia drivers installed), recordings in Myth are now smurfy blue. The preview is correct colors though. Any ideas?

[16:13:40]

wagnerrp:

preview... you mean the snapshot or the video preview?

[16:15:40]

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[16:17:36]

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[16:17:49]

bbeattie:

wagnerrp: video preview

[16:18:14]

bbeattie:

.. I should note I'm running the releases branch, but haven't updated it for about 6 months or more

[16:18:25]

bbeattie:

bug-fix release branch

[16:18:37]

wagnerrp:

youre using the official 0.21-fixes? not the VDPAU backport?

[16:18:50]

bbeattie:

correct

[16:19:28]

bbeattie:

I just updated nvidia drivers and videolan/xine-vdpau, left myth alone, but now myth recordings are smurfy blue

[16:20:14]

wagnerrp:

what version drivers?

[16:20:18]

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[16:21:45]

GreyFoxx:

some driver versions have HUE problems

[16:21:57]

GreyFoxx:

and you have to adjust the HUE to either 0% or 50% depending on the driver :)

[16:22:27]

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[16:22:55]

GreyFoxx:

Wow, my family is actually watching LiveTV at home...weird :)

[16:23:06]

GreyFoxx:

I'm not use to seeing that scroll by in my logs :)

[16:24:12]

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[16:27:31]

** J-e-f-f-- yawns... **

[16:29:33]

** wagnerrp prods J-e-f-f-- **

[16:29:38]

wagnerrp:

erm...

[16:29:41]

** wagnerrp prods J-e-f-f-A **

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[16:30:19]

J-e-f-f-A:

wagnerrp: Tried to connect my Droid to my proxy without a 200-line buffer – seems I can't use two different znc users with the same nick... :-(

[16:30:22]

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[16:30:51]

bbeattie:

wagnerrp: sorry, phone keeps ringing.. 190.53

[16:33:39]

J-e-f-f-A:

bbeattie: turn the ringer off. ;-) hehehehehehe

[16:33:45]

bbeattie:

;)

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[16:43:47]

** J-e-f-f-A tries something different... **

[16:45:14]

** J-e-f-f-A stretches... **

[16:46:18]

dustybin:

ATHLON II 605e X4 QUAD CORE 45W TDP <-- the perfect backend green cpu

[16:46:33]

wagnerrp:

does anywhere actually sell those

[16:46:41]

wagnerrp:

last i checked, they were all gobbled up by OEMs

[16:46:42]

dustybin:

combind that with a green seasonic x-650, green WDs HDs and some green memory

[16:46:59]

wagnerrp:

what do you need a 650W PSU for?

[16:47:15]

dustybin:

wagnerrp: the seasonic X-650 is 90% efficient

[16:47:23]

iamlindoro:

dustybin: How about every time you say something is "the perfect $whatever" from now on, I ban you for a week?

[16:47:44]

dustybin:

hello :D

[16:47:49]

** J-e-f-f-A 's memory is RED. ;-) **

[16:47:56]

high-rez:

That's not very green compared to an ionitx with a machine whose whole power consumption is 25 watts ;)

[16:48:19]

wagnerrp:

what was the towel aficionado's last name in The Hitchhiker's Guide?

[16:48:38]

high-rez:

Infact, I'd say that's just downright wasteful.

[16:48:39]

** high-rez ducks **

[16:48:45]

dustybin:

high-rez: how many disks can you stick inside a ionitx ?

[16:48:58]

high-rez:

I think it has 3 sata ports ?

[16:49:01]

wagnerrp:

ive seen ones with as many as six

[16:49:09]

dustybin:

high-rez: links?

[16:49:15]

wagnerrp:

and thats assuming you dont get one with a pcie-x16 slot

[16:49:22]

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[16:49:36]

high-rez:

http://www.amazon.com/Zotac-IONITX-C-U-Single . . . p/B002BA5IHW

[16:50:07]

dustybin:

jeeze

[16:50:26]

high-rez:

I have mine in the M350 – its fantastic.

[16:50:48]

dustybin:

high-rez: what about pci tv cards?

[16:51:09]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +o iamlindoro

[16:51:16]

iamlindoro:

come on. Say it's the perfect something

[16:51:18]

iamlindoro:

I dare you.

[16:51:30]

dustybin:

eek

[16:51:32]

** J-e-f-f-A laughs. **

[16:51:36]

** dustybin feels scared **

[16:51:40]

high-rez:

dustybing: Ehh, I use a hdhr and a usb dvb device. :)

[16:51:41]

highzeth:

it would make perfect sense not to do that

[16:51:49]

iamlindoro:

/kickban dustybin

[16:51:53]

iamlindoro:

whoops, sorry, wrong window

[16:51:53]

dustybin:

:(

[16:52:15]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : -o iamlindoro

[16:52:15]

dustybin:

im being cyber bullied :(

[16:52:27]

devinheitmueller:

I can tell you that the power management on most of the actual tuner boards is almost non-existent.

[16:53:07]

devinheitmueller:

.... meaning many of them are running at full power 100% of the time, regardless of whether they are in use.

[16:56:23]

iamlindoro:

Which brings me to my next point, do not french kiss the coaxial ports

[16:57:01]

high-rez:

This is how my setup looks: http://www.areta.org/~lordmetroid/ion02.jpg except I moved the power connector and the wifi connector onto the case itself (the wholes on the case match up perfect – and the motherboard L-Bracket is flimsy)

[16:57:08]

mag0o:

...

[16:57:09]

mag0o:

wow

[16:57:11]

wagnerrp:

i cant even touch them if im barefoot

[16:57:52]

wagnerrp:

apparently my cableco runs at sufficient bias that i can pick up a voltage from ground with my hands

[16:58:15]

skd5aner:

bleh – green this, green that...

[16:59:20]

high-rez:

For me its not as much about being green as it is about noise. :)

[16:59:37]

high-rez:

And heat. This thing makes so little heat that I don't need any fans for it at all.

[16:59:38]

skd5aner:

sorry – was refering to dustybin's comments above

[16:59:50]

iamlindoro:

Show me a man unconcerned about green and I'll show you a man whose parents pay his power bill

[16:59:59]

dustybin:

would you guys agree, that having a seperate backend + frontend is a waste of a box and electricity?

[17:00:29]

mag0o:

nope

[17:00:31]

** J-e-f-f-A 's machine isn't green, but he still manages to pay his own power bill... ;-) **

[17:00:31]

devinheitmueller:

dustybin: generally, I would agree. Two power supplies, hard drives, motherboards, video cards.

[17:00:46]

wagnerrp:

dustybin: just put your frontends in standby, or shutdown, and they cost you a couple dollars a year

[17:00:59]

dustybin:

ok, good points

[17:01:00]

skd5aner:

Efficiency and "green" have different meanings in my book and while not mutually exclusive, one is a religion, and one is just the smart way of doing things

[17:01:09]

high-rez:

dustybin: I would not agree. Not if you have multiple frontends that are low powered machines, and if your backend is a multi-purpose home server. E.g. having a dedicated backend that also does asterisk, and cups, and samba etc etc etc.

[17:01:14]

** J-e-f-f-A shuts down his frontends all the time -only the backend is on 24x7 **

[17:01:37]

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[17:01:37]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v Dibblah

[17:01:42]

devinheitmueller:

If you have multiple frontends, then I can see the value. But if you only have one then it isn't worth it.

[17:01:54]

dustybin:

a low powered frontend what can go into sleep via linux would be ace :D

[17:02:03]

skd5aner:

I think audi had it about right with the "Green Police" commercial

[17:02:19]

mag0o:

i'd have to guess that with 3 females in my house, the hot water heater uses way more power than my backend + 2 frontends

[17:02:32]

wagnerrp:

your heater uses power?

[17:02:37]

mag0o:

yep

[17:02:41]

mag0o:

'lectric

[17:02:58]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: lots of electric water heaters out there

[17:02:58]

bjd:

my flat is electric only too

[17:03:05]

high-rez:

Heh, my wife takes 3 minute showers. My servers are super power hungry by comparison :)

[17:03:05]

bjd:

no gas :/

[17:03:14]

** J-e-f-f-A 's hot water heater is Gas & Tankless... saved me over $2000 the last two years... (cost $700, but worth it...) **

[17:03:24]

mag0o:

i'm pretty sure each of them can empty the 50 gallon heater with a bath/shower

[17:03:52]

skd5aner:

electric water heaters are the single most innefficient appliances you can have, but sometimes that's the only option

[17:03:56]

devinheitmueller:

I suspect when the *right* people start caring about power consumption, everybody's power bill will go down considerably.

[17:04:07]

wagnerrp:

skd5aner: unless theyre the tankless kind

[17:04:17]

mag0o:

yeah skd5aner, no gas in the neighborhood

[17:04:22]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: sure – instant on

[17:04:33]

mag0o:

(that i'm aware of, and a tank is too bulky for the wife)

[17:04:37]

skd5aner:

mag0o: I've got a 50 gal electric tank too, so I can relate

[17:04:41]

devinheitmueller:

Users picking "green" hardware is really only a half-hearted solution. Really, somebody should optimize the drivers to do proper power management, and the software to not be so CPU/IO hungry (e.g. run it through powertop and fix the issues)

[17:05:01]

skd5aner:

devinheitmueller: amen

[17:05:26]

J-e-f-f-A:

mag0o: They make electric tankless hot water heaters, but I don't know how much they cost... Not sure if they'd end up saving money like my gas tankless does...

[17:05:35]

wagnerrp:

devinheitmueller: is it a problem with the tuner drivers? or the hardware itself has no power saving mode?

[17:05:38]

devinheitmueller:

If noise is your concern, then being careful not to buy the wind-tunnel case is useful, but doesn't go very far in terms of power consumption.

[17:05:53]

devinheitmueller:

wagnerrp: it's almost always a problem with the drivers not properly powering down the hardware.

[17:06:09]

devinheitmueller:

The hardware supports it,but the guys writing the drivers are just happy to get it to the point where the board "works".

[17:06:18]

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[17:06:35]

devinheitmueller:

... and from a reliability standpoint, there is fewer risk of bugs if we just leave everything powered on all the time.

[17:07:19]

devinheitmueller:

I've personally run into a number of cases where adding power management for tuners has resulted in uncovering bugs in other drivers.

[17:07:43]

devinheitmueller:

... and uncovering bugs is good – if you have the resources/hardware/time to fix all the other boards that get broken.

[17:09:14]

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[17:09:20]

skd5aner:

speaking of buggy tuner cards – my analog cards have been rock solid for a few years, but as of last week – one of them is acting flaky

[17:09:41]

** devinheitmueller walks away whistling.... **

[17:09:53]

skd5aner:

haha

[17:09:55]

skd5aner:

;)

[17:09:58]

devinheitmueller:

which board is it?

[17:10:12]

skd5aner:

trying to figure out if it's my PVR-500 or PVR-250

[17:10:31]

devinheitmueller:

Ah, it's the ivtv driver. Phew.

[17:10:33]

skd5aner:

just started troubleshooting it... it's sometimes resolved by powering down and back up

[17:10:40]

skd5aner:

yes, it would be

[17:10:49]

wagnerrp:

i had a problem with my 150s a couple months back

[17:10:53]

devinheitmueller:

Did you try blowing the dust out of the PCI slot?

[17:11:00]

wagnerrp:

gave me nothing but static for over a month

[17:11:01]

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[17:11:07]

wagnerrp:

and then they just magically started working again

[17:11:10]

skd5aner:

I know it's /dev/video1 (testing it now), but got to find out which card that is

[17:11:18]

skd5aner:

devinheitmueller: like an NES cartridge?

[17:11:23]

devinheitmueller:

skd5aner: yeah.

[17:11:30]

skd5aner:

haha – as in, seriously?

[17:11:48]

devinheitmueller:

skd5aner: you can figure out which card /dev/video1 is by running "V4l2-ctl -a -d /dev/video1"

[17:11:50]

skd5aner:

I mean – it's been in the slot probably for several years

[17:11:53]

AndyCap:

does it short the pci fingers?

[17:12:10]

J-e-f-f-A:

re: ivtv cards – total static, or just 'scratchy' audio? If it's the latter, I have a script for mine that 'fixes' that by switching the audio mode for 1/4 second after changing channels...

[17:12:35]

skd5aner:

for me, it's 0-byte files

[17:12:38]

devinheitmueller:

The PCI chipset on those boards is really finicky from a timing standpoint, and if the current isn't good on all the pins the card will "sort of work"

[17:12:49]

skd5aner:

haven't looked at the logs yet, but it just "doesn't work"

[17:12:59]

devinheitmueller:

skd5aner: is it reproducible?

[17:13:14]

skd5aner:

yes, but sportically

[17:13:31]

devinheitmueller:

skd5aner: any errors showing up in dmesg?

[17:13:34]

skd5aner:

In fact – I had this problem years ago, like in 2004/2005... but it's been fairly stable...

[17:13:36]

AndyCap:

J-e-f-f-A: heh, reminds me of the buggy saa7134 audio carrier autodetect thing. which broke my recordings ever so often. (Prompting me to hardcode the actual frequency instead of it trying to autotune)

[17:14:02]

skd5aner:

devinheitmueller: yes, flooded with "[422355.810023] ivtv1: DMA TIMEOUT 00000001 0

[17:14:06]

devinheitmueller:

oh.

[17:14:15]

devinheitmueller:

Yeah, I would send some email to ivtv-users and see what Andy says.

[17:15:35]

skd5aner:

devinheitmueller: it's my PVR-500

[17:15:43]

devinheitmueller:

interesting.

[17:15:59]

devinheitmueller:

skd5aner: how old is your v4l-dvb build. Are you using whatever came with your distro?

[17:16:05]

skd5aner:

like I said, if I power down – many times it'll fix it, but for how long, I don't know

[17:16:24]

skd5aner:

devinheitmueller: standard ubuntu 9.10 distro (server edition)

[17:16:39]

devinheitmueller:

ok.

[17:17:07]

skd5aner:

to be honest, it could be related to the fact that I did an apt-get update a few days beforehand... including a minor kernel update, same major revision though

[17:17:39]

skd5aner:

but – unless they changed something ivtv related within the same release cycle, I would be surprised if that might not just be a red herring

[17:17:39]

devinheitmueller:

well, that's definitely worth considering.

[17:17:48]

wagnerrp:

i have to wonder how much of the ivtv code base actually remains from 2004

[17:18:18]

bjd:

mmm

[17:18:24]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: not sure – just mentioninging that I really haven't see this behavior since ~05/06-ish

[17:18:49]

bjd:

going back to teh conversation about being green i guess you can't get greener than getting myth to shutdown and wake up

[17:18:49]

skd5aner:

rock solid sense then

[17:18:50]

devinheitmueller:

well, the ivtv driver was merged into the mainline v4l-dvb tree.

[17:19:13]

devinheitmueller:

... hence, they are now one in the same.

[17:19:52]

skd5aner:

devinheitmueller: so, you think the email out to the ivtv list would be the next course of action?

[17:20:12]

devinheitmueller:

skd5aner: yeah. Maybe Andy recognizes the error message as something he has seen before and/or already fixed.

[17:20:36]

skd5aner:

yea – I'll do a bit of googling first and see if the Q hasn't already been posed and answered

[17:21:03]

paul-h_ is now known as paul-h

[17:21:28]

skd5aner:

luckily, nearly 80% of my recordings have gone HD now, so I can limp along a lot easier now than I could have a year ago

[17:21:29]

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[17:27:04]

skd5aner:

devinheitmueller: interesting – it looks like it could be related to cpufreq and processor frequency changes

[17:27:26]

devinheitmueller:

it could be a whole host of possible things.

[17:28:19]

skd5aner:

true – looks like there's several scenarios out there, but lots of hits in the ivtv archives

[17:28:20]

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[17:29:49]

skd5aner:

I see some reports that are similiar to mine where people will mention it works for a few months and then experience the issue randomly, at least I have company

[17:30:21]

skd5aner:

eh – could take the easy way out and get a couple HVR-1600s ;)

[17:30:51]

devinheitmueller:

Yeah. I have to admit I'm a bit surprised though – that is a pretty mature driver.

[17:31:08]

devinheitmueller:

It's not undergoing much churn nowadays (hence the risk of regression is relatively low)

[17:35:47]

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[17:36:44]

skd5aner:

yea, that would have been my assumption

[17:37:00]

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[17:37:07]

skd5aner:

I enabled some advanced debugging, this is what dmesg spits out now when it starts to record: http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/1790617

[17:37:30]

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[17:38:04]

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[17:38:06]

skd5aner:

via ivtv-ctrl -D584

[17:38:46]

devinheitmueller:

skd5aner: yeah, I don't think that will be very helpful.

[17:38:48]

skd5aner:

I'll see if I can send it to the ivtv list – thx

[17:38:58]

skd5aner:

yea, no smoking guns in it

[17:39:15]

devinheitmueller:

skd5aner: those debug messages are related to v4l2 calls related to setting various controls. Your issue is with the DMA pipeline.

[17:41:12]

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[17:46:09]

bonelifer:

the things I've found to do with my HTPC even before I've put the first part into the case always seems to amaze me. I just bought a Griffin RocketFM and Griffin AM/FM radio SHARK 2, after finding scripts that allow you to use and minipulate them from linux. I think I'll add a block to newegg, buy.com, ebay, etc. So I can't spend any more.

[17:52:42]

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[17:54:44]

skd5aner:

nice – http://ivtvdriver.org/index.php/DMA

[17:57:16]

devinheitmueller:

skd5aner: lovely.

[17:59:03]

iamlindoro:

Sigh, I'm recording like six hours of TV tonight and not a single thing I care to watch/am caught up on enough to watch

[17:59:25]

iamlindoro:

Guess I could do a Chuck-a-thon

[17:59:44]

bonelifer:

never could get into chuck.

[18:02:16]

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[18:02:28]

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[18:02:41]

skd5aner:

bonelifer: those Griffin peripherals won't do you much good (currently) in mythtv

[18:03:25]

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[18:04:37]

thefRont:

hi

[18:04:57]

bonelifer:

hrmm, hello.

[18:05:06]

** skd5aner wanted to see MythNazdar, oh well **

[18:05:31]

bonelifer:

to record the occasional morning show, so I can sleep in on FM it will.

[18:05:57]

bonelifer:

MythNazdar(user?)

[18:06:00]

thefRont:

isn't it possible to mark a show to tell mythtv to switch to that program when the show starts?

[18:06:43]

skd5aner:

what exactly would you use (within myth) to access the Griffin device? Or, do you just plan on recording it outside of myth, and playback files within myth music?

[18:07:12]

skd5aner:

thefRont: in Live TV?

[18:07:25]

bonelifer:

Exactly.

[18:07:38]

skd5aner:

well – I suppose in that case

[18:07:43]

thefRont:

skd5aner: yes

[18:07:47]

bonelifer:

Basically so I don't have to tie up one of the PVR-500's tunners for recording FM.

[18:08:13]

dustybin:

¡zzzǝǝb ¡ʇɐɥʇ ǝuıbɐɯı ¡uʍop ǝpısdn ɯı ¡bɯo

[18:08:14]

wagnerrp:

nazdar?

[18:08:23]

bonelifer:

Leaving me with always 3 tuners to record all the time.

[18:08:30]

skd5aner:

thefRont: if there is a conflict for a tuner within Live TV it will prompt you for what you want to do, continue to record and watch, go to the menu and record, or don't record (I believe those are the options)

[18:08:45]

skd5aner:

http://mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-commits/20 . . . /063276.html

[18:09:10]

thefRont:

ok

[18:09:30]

wagnerrp:

i dont get it...

[18:09:30]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +o iamlindoro

[18:09:41]

Mode for #mythtv-users by iamlindoro!~iamlindor@unaffiliated/iamlindoro : +q dustybin!*@*

[18:09:41]

skd5aner:

eh – was just a joke

[18:09:48]

bonelifer:

The RocketFM, to possibly if I can figure out how to transmit sound to portable fm tuners for people with hearing problems to keep the sound at a reaonable volume at night time when someone might be asleep.(ie my mom won't admit it, but she's getting deaf).

[18:10:49]

iamlindoro:

Five minute time out for the last two years of stupidity

[18:11:34]

bonelifer:

No time outs for me please, I'd be in the corner for the rest of my life. :)

[18:13:18]

wagnerrp:

seriously, what was #8050? some kind of mistake? a failed attempt at trac spam?

[18:13:31]

iamlindoro:

I think the latter

[18:14:09]

Mode for #mythtv-users by iamlindoro!~iamlindor@unaffiliated/iamlindoro : -q dustybin!*@*

[18:14:25]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : -o iamlindoro

[18:14:49]

iamlindoro:

dustybin: now be a grownup if you want to be in the grownup channel

[18:15:12]

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[18:15:15]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: pretty sure – hence the lighthearted joke that maybe he was trying to submit a new plugin called "MythNazdar"

[18:15:44]

wagnerrp:

looks like they sell inks and coatings

[18:15:52]

skd5aner:

you clicked the link?

[18:15:53]

wagnerrp:

hardly something likely to spam a mythtv wiki

[18:15:58]

wagnerrp:

no... checking whois

[18:16:11]

skd5aner:

I was about to say... probably not the best of ideas :)

[18:16:23]

wagnerrp:

besides, thats a non-functional link

[18:16:41]

skd5aner:

who needs a TLD?

[18:16:43]

wagnerrp:

i dont know of any browser that will add suf/pre-fix if you give the 'http://'

[18:17:10]

skd5aner:

some DNS resolvers will do it, I believe OpenDNS for example

[18:17:36]

skd5aner:

well, actually – probably not...

[18:18:04]

skd5aner:

seeings how it'll probably just use the local domain suffix list first, to your point

[18:18:34]

devinheitmueller:

Maybe it's a netbios resolution attack targeted at some particular MythTV developer.

[18:18:35]

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[18:18:38]

devinheitmueller:

:-p

[18:19:09]

bonelifer:

maybe everyone is thinkin' too hard.

[18:19:11]

iamlindoro:

It was weird how he knew the name of my maste backeOH CRAP

[18:19:16]

bonelifer:

:|

[18:19:33]

skd5aner:

how could he possibly have know then name of the evil server on my private subnet, that guys is goooooood

[18:19:34]

devinheitmueller:

:-)

[18:20:15]

wagnerrp:

that still doesnt beat some of the old myth wiki spam

[18:20:35]

skd5aner:

I do not miss the spam storms :(

[18:20:39]

wagnerrp:

some spammer apologized for spamming, claiming he needed to do it because his family was starving

[18:20:47]

skd5aner:

no joke?

[18:21:16]

bonelifer:

I almost daily have to report spammers to SFS.

[18:21:27]

skd5aner:

I would have closed #8050 as worksforme

[18:21:33]

wagnerrp:

check the spam from some of the original blocked IPs, before they turned on account requirements

[18:21:37]

bonelifer:

the sad duties of a forum admin/moderator

[18:21:52]

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[18:22:23]

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[18:22:50]

wagnerrp:

http://mythtv.org/wiki?title=Template:News&am . . . ;oldid=11023

[18:24:54]

bonelifer:

hah, love that one. Like the ones on forums where they say "sorry If I've posted this in the wrong forum" and then name the forum name and the start the speel.

[18:25:16]

sid3windr:

wagnerrp: firefox does

[18:25:26]

sid3windr:

wagnerrp: try http://to

[18:25:40]

sid3windr:

vs http://to.

[18:25:59]

wagnerrp:

must be your DNS resolver doing that

[18:26:10]

sid3windr:

nope

[18:26:14]

wagnerrp:

yep

[18:26:16]

sid3windr:

nope

[18:26:19]

wagnerrp:

yep

[18:26:21]

sid3windr:

nope

[18:26:28]

wagnerrp:

3.6 isnt doing that here

[18:26:35]

sid3windr:

3.5 does that everywhere I go

[18:27:24]

sid3windr:

so you don't get pointed at www.to.com with 3.6?

[18:27:57]

sid3windr:

apparently they just go "meh" if you don't have a . in the url instead of looking for A/AAAA first

[18:28:07]

wagnerrp:

huh... yeah, looks like a change in the behavior

[18:28:26]

wagnerrp:

3.5 on my laptop gets redirected to 'to.com'

[18:28:30]

bonelifer:

wish someone would do an addon so you can give it different examples of typos. ie I have this annoying habbit of typing .comk instead of .com. I wish it'd just know that I meant .com

[18:28:31]

sid3windr:

(btw, dns resolver cannot rewrite urls)

[18:28:42]

sid3windr:

(unless it also has a http server)

[18:29:00]

wagnerrp:

sid3windr: no, but they can point you to their own internal http server, which then figures out where you might want to go and redirects you

[18:29:01]

skd5aner:

bonelifer: OpenDNS does that to some extent... if you type in name.co, it assumes you mean com

[18:29:04]

sid3windr:

yes

[18:29:06]

sid3windr:

that's what I said ;)

[18:29:08]

boludiko:

hi, i have a problem mythtv stop detecting power signal on the antena

[18:29:12]

boludiko:

how?

[18:30:12]

bonelifer:

I use opendns, but still not there yet. I need to maybe take a type touching refresher course. I'm not sure where these lazy "k"'s keep coming from even when I'm typing slowly.

[18:30:17]

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[18:30:29]

bonelifer:

touch typing even. LOL

[18:30:29]

skd5aner:

http://blog.opendns.com/2007/01/26/domain-based-blacklists/ (article on DNS typo corrections)

[18:30:44]

wagnerrp:

i refuse to use opendns because of that crap

[18:31:02]

wagnerrp:

of course im catching my ISP's servers doing the same thing

[18:31:14]

bonelifer:

at least OpenDNS listens to the users unlike say AOL.

[18:31:42]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: yea, my provider's DNS is way more evil

[18:32:44]

bonelifer:

I'm just glad AOL opened up dialing up via Netscape ISP to using something other than THEIR dialer. Nice not to be kicked off every 15 – 30 minutes

[18:32:54]

bonelifer:

If I step away from the computer

[18:33:07]

skd5aner:

bonelifer: have you considered just about anything else besides AOL?

[18:33:39]

J-e-f-f-A:

what's dailup?

[18:33:40]

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[18:33:42]

** J-e-f-f-A winks. **

[18:33:55]

bonelifer:

Technically I'm using Netscape ISP(but obviously they're owned by AOL). THey just work, and they allow use to pay with checking account, instead of CC.

[18:34:13]

bonelifer:

PeoplePC didn't even ask before cutting you off.

[18:34:35]

skd5aner:

J-e-f-f-A: it'd be nice if everyone had broadband, but you'd be surprised at how many people in the US still can't get it (unless they go the Satellite route or maybe now can get 3G/WiMax)

[18:34:55]

skd5aner:

it's almost embarrassing compared to the rest of the modern world

[18:35:15]

bonelifer:

ATT doesn't even have DSL here, I don't even think in the state. And I live too far away from the Cable company.

[18:35:42]

wagnerrp:

yeah, the range on DSL is pretty poor

[18:35:44]

J-e-f-f-A:

skd5aner: I think I'd go though withdrawal if I didn't have at least DSL... But I'm spoiled with FiOS...

[18:35:49]

skd5aner:

Well, DSL is pretty much universal, but it all depends on distance from the C/O

[18:35:51]

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[18:36:15]

wagnerrp:

about half a mile out and you start dropping throughput

[18:36:19]

skd5aner:

It's only between 1–2 miles without playing games with infrastructure

[18:36:38]

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[18:36:42]

wagnerrp:

somewhere around 4 miles, dialup is going to be faster

[18:36:42]

skd5aner:

yea – 5000+ ft, and your rates start to suffer with ADSL

[18:37:14]

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[18:37:25]

devinheitmueller:

wagnerrp: even at 4 miles, you can still get IDSL.

[18:37:28]

skd5aner:

Yea – see, FiOS is becoming the "norm" in so many places – it's not even within 500 miles of me

[18:37:57]

skd5aner:

devinheitmueller: if your phone company offers anything but ADSL, many don't

[18:37:58]

bonelifer:

And the local gov doesn't have the money to throw at FIOS for fear of TELCO interference. ANTI-TRUST laws are there for a reason. Someone invent a time machine and get us some politicians from the past that had the balls to use these laws.

[18:38:00]

devinheitmueller:

(which is really just ISDN but they dechannelize it – so instead of 2B+d you have a single 144 channe)

[18:38:25]

J-e-f-f-A:

skd5aner: Acutally, while on a recent vacation to my step-dad's (who has no internet), I used my phone tethered to my laptop – it was a bit slow, but at least I had Internet... ;-)

[18:38:40]

devinheitmueller:

skd5aner: you can get IDSL pretty much anywhere – they just don't advertise it like they do ADSL. You usually have to ask.

[18:38:50]

skd5aner:

yea – my folks had dial-up till about 2 years ago, just 15 miles south of a major city...

[18:39:14]

wagnerrp:

looks like HDSL can be used over decent ranges if you install repeaters

[18:39:19]

skd5aner:

in fact, they still don't have broadband service via wire/cable/fiber – they have a wimax option

[18:39:36]

bonelifer:

Wireless is on the other side of town. :(

[18:40:06]

skd5aner:

most of the town they live in has cable and DSL options, but the are they live in is too rural

[18:40:14]

bonelifer:

If I'm going to do that I might as well get move there and get Cable

[18:40:30]

wagnerrp:

bonelifer: put up a tower and dish

[18:40:46]

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[18:40:47]

bonelifer:

Dish? Sat? no wayyyy.

[18:40:57]

wagnerrp:

no... directional antenna for wimax

[18:41:04]

skd5aner:

I think he means, aim an antenna directly at the wimax tower

[18:41:08]

J-e-f-f-A:

bonelifer: I think he means to get the wifi... ^^ yeah.

[18:41:30]

bonelifer:

We just go rid of the old HAM tower to get rid of the lightening strikes. No thank you.

[18:41:31]

kormoc:

I think he means to move to civilization... and by he I mean me

[18:41:51]

skd5aner:

Civilization is overrated sometimes ;)

[18:41:53]

** J-e-f-f-A laughs... **

[18:42:05]

bonelifer:

I'm not even living in the county.

[18:42:42]

boludiko:

one question... if i add a directory on the backend configure with my videos, and execute de database update, why i see the folder empty on "videos section"

[18:42:59]

skd5aner:

you have to scan for the videos

[18:43:15]

wagnerrp:

boludiko: you added the folder to the storage group in mythtv-setup?

[18:43:40]

boludiko:

on the backend?

[18:43:47]

bonelifer:

In a state that only has like 1.6 million, our county has like over 250,000 with 5 or 6 school districts and I don't know how many cities

[18:43:49]

wagnerrp:

yes

[18:43:54]

boludiko:

yes

[18:44:05]

wagnerrp:

boludiko: you subsequently restarted the backend?

[18:44:15]

boludiko:

yes

[18:44:21]

boludiko:

and restarted the pc

[18:44:24]

wagnerrp:

and then you scanned in the frontend?

[18:44:57]

kormoc:

bonelifer: so Idaho?

[18:44:58]

J-e-f-f-A:

perhaps myth doesn't know the file extention type?

[18:45:01]

boludiko:

no... how i can do this? i don't see the option

[18:45:02]

bonelifer:

Arkansas

[18:45:15]

kormoc:

bonelifer: so 2.9M :P

[18:45:17]

devinheitmueller:

hey, is there any way for me to find out how many schedulesdirect subscribers there are?

[18:45:20]

wagnerrp:

boludiko: in 'Watch Videos', its in the 'm' menu

[18:45:21]

bonelifer:

really?

[18:45:35]

kormoc:

bonelifer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._sta . . . y_population

[18:45:37]

wagnerrp:

devinheitmueller: xris might be able to give you a number

[18:45:45]

bonelifer:

hmmm, Katrina and Houston they have really upped our pop then

[18:46:12]

devinheitmueller:

wagnerrp: thanks.

[18:46:26]

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[18:46:43]

skd5aner:

devinheitmueller: I know when people have asked in the past they (SD) has said they can't say due to contractual obligations with TMS, but I don't know what the limitations are

[18:46:46]

skd5aner:

doesn't hurt to ask

[18:46:52]

devinheitmueller:

skd5aner: ok.

[18:47:16]

boludiko:

wagnerrp: ok thanks i will try it now

[18:47:29]

kormoc:

devinheitmueller: We can't say due to contractual requirements with Tribune

[18:47:38]

skd5aner:

I know they have given percentages based on application usage

[18:47:41]

boludiko:

another question... i'm using overscan compensation with nvidia-drivers privative

[18:47:47]

devinheitmueller:

I saw something in their FAQ about not being able to talk about profitability, etc. But wasn't sure if that applied to subscriber counts too.

[18:48:11]

boludiko:

well the zoom options on live tv always stay out of my screen... can i change the zoom size?

[18:48:18]

kormoc:

skd5aner: the percentages based on application usage is near meaningless, as you can vote for many or none

[18:48:19]

devinheitmueller:

kormoc: fair enough.

[18:48:32]

bonelifer:

TMS, Tribune the same as Zap2it?

[18:48:43]

skd5aner:

of course – just saying, that was about the only "statistic" I've seen out of SD

[18:49:09]

wagnerrp:

zap2it was a service run by TMS, yes

[18:49:42]

** bonelifer <3's Schedules Direct **

[18:49:50]

wagnerrp:

after closing their free listings through zap2it, SD was set up to license the data cheaply for OSS projects like mythtv

[18:50:32]

bonelifer:

I know, just making sure that was who you were talking about. All a sudden saw a convo I didn't know what was being talked about.

[18:51:28]

bonelifer:

$20.00 is highway robbery and I'm wearing a bandana and carrying a gun. :)

[18:51:42]

bonelifer:

SD people are good people.

[18:51:56]

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[18:52:01]

bonelifer:

and by highway robbery, I mean were the robbers, not them.

[18:52:35]

boludiko:

somebody try coreavc on myth?

[18:53:00]

bonelifer:

sure plenty of people according to google and yahoo search.

[18:53:09]

wagnerrp:

boludiko: cannot be done, mythtv does not use external video libraries

[18:53:27]

bonelifer:

and by sure I mean they've tried.

[18:53:57]

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[18:54:15]

wagnerrp:

you might be able to hack support in yourself, but for what purpose?

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[19:07:43]

boludiko:

how can i change the aspect relation with the remote or keyboard?

[19:08:36]

wagnerrp:

'w'

[19:08:58]

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[19:09:27]

boludiko:

w changes zoom no aspect relation

[19:17:21]

boludiko:

the aspect ratio with mceusb

[19:18:21]

devinheitmueller:

hey, quick question: where does the artwork come from when you click "Watch recordings"?

[19:18:46]

devinheitmueller:

I'm assuming it comes from some fan art provider?

[19:19:40]

skd5aner:

ttvdb

[19:19:50]

skd5aner:

for TV shows, tmdb for movies

[19:20:13]

devinheitmueller:

Ah, I knew about tmdb but concluded that wasn't used for TV series. Didn't know abou ttvdb.

[19:20:14]

devinheitmueller:

Thanks.

[19:20:16]

skd5aner:

thetvdb.com

[19:20:32]

wagnerrp:

devinheitmueller: there is no grabber for such data, nor is there inherent support for such artwork in mythtv

[19:20:43]

wagnerrp:

that artwork is something certain themes pull in

[19:20:52]

iamlindoro:

not themes, Jamu

[19:21:02]

devinheitmueller:

wagnerrp: Oh, so it's the theme that sucks in the artwork, not the mythtv core?

[19:21:08]

iamlindoro:

Jamu

[19:21:08]

wagnerrp:

from where it may exist from mythvideo, if you have matching shows

[19:21:18]

skd5aner:

jamu -MW

[19:21:19]

iamlindoro:

devinheitmueller, You're using MythBuntu, yes?

[19:21:23]

devinheitmueller:

iamlindoro: yes.

[19:21:37]

iamlindoro:

if so, Jamu is cron'd and pulls it in for your upcoming and existing stuff twice an hour

[19:21:42]

wagnerrp:

if you run jamu as such, it will also pull artwork for any existing or upcoming recordings

[19:21:44]

skd5aner:

and there are 2–3 themes that show artwork in the watch recordings screen (in .22)

[19:21:50]

devinheitmueller:

I'm just wondering where the TV show specific artwork comes from when I click on "watch programs" and select an episode of "The Office".

[19:22:10]

iamlindoro:

TheTVDB is the source

[19:22:13]

devinheitmueller:

ok

[19:22:31]

skd5aner:

iamlindoro: twice an hour? seems a bit excessive

[19:22:37]

wagnerrp:

im not saying the theme downloads the artwork, it just pulls from where it expects it to be in the mythvideo folders

[19:22:56]

iamlindoro:

skd5aner, Twice an hour is the perfect interval

[19:23:13]

devinheitmueller:

ok, that makes sense.

[19:23:17]

iamlindoro:

accounts for spur-of-the-moment recordings and it's not as though there's any network activity unless artwork is needed

[19:23:31]

iamlindoro:

not like it redownloads again and again

[19:23:58]

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[19:24:14]

skd5aner:

iamlindoro: ok, true – I guess it only will request what it doesn't have

[19:26:09]

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[19:26:58]

rhpot1991:

anyone else have issues with their hdpvr recordings randomly missing sound or having bad sound?

[19:27:32]

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[19:29:13]

skd5aner:

speaking of "The Office" jamu always downloads the british version artwork for me – is there a proper way to point it to the US version?

[19:30:29]

RDV_Linux:

skd5aner: Yes add the series name that matches your EPG program title and the correct TTVDB # to your jamu.conf file in the override section

[19:31:16]

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[19:31:25]

skd5aner:

RDV_Linux: thanks, one other item – can't remember if this was addressed in trunk or not, but some shows are showing up as Movies instead of TV Episodes (-MW), is there a proper way to address those as well?

[19:31:36]

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[19:31:52]

skd5aner:

I'm still running .22-fixes, so I might not have the luxory if it was addressed in trunk, but not able to be backported

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[19:32:47]

RDV_Linux:

skd5aner: Yes the latest version in trunk now properly lets users use the override section of the jamu.conf to deal with TV series that do not have subtitle EPG data.

[19:33:35]

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[19:33:52]

skd5aner:

excellent

[19:34:09]

RDV_Linux:

skd5aner: No back porting as that version of Jamu also has the new python bindings which are trunk only.

[19:35:12]

RDV_Linux:

skd5aner: I added 15 new enhancements to jamu for 0.23 most of which were user requests.

[19:35:14]

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[19:36:30]

skd5aner:

RDV_Linux: yup, remember the other day I thanks you specifically for about 5 of those ;)

[19:36:46]

RDV_Linux:

skd5aner: Check the Jamu wiki section called "Coming Attractions"

[19:36:53]

skd5aner:

but – I figured that was the reason they weren't backported (that and the assumption that .23 is "around the bend")

[19:36:57]

RDV_Linux:

skd5aner: Sorry forgot

[19:37:22]

skd5aner:

np, it was a forgettable conversation ;) anyway, doesn't hurt to say thanks again

[19:37:57]

skd5aner:

just goes to show I forgot the feature I requested as in that list to begin with :S

[19:38:04]

iamlindoro:

skd5aner, The reason they weren't backported is because new features are never backported

[19:38:08]

skd5aner:

as = was

[19:38:38]

devinheitmueller:

Hey, is there anyone here associated with thetvdb.com?

[19:38:57]

skd5aner:

iamlindoro: true, true – but I know *some* extensions of jamu were put into -fixes early on (I believe), but yup – these would definitely be new features

[19:39:02]

devinheitmueller:

I'm trying to see if I can find any stats by API key.

[19:39:05]

iamlindoro:

devinheitmueller, Associated in what way? RDV_Linux and I are probably the closest

[19:39:24]

iamlindoro:

skd5aner, no new features have been added to Jamu after the release

[19:39:25]

devinheitmueller:

(assuming that MythTV has it's own API key)

[19:39:33]

iamlindoro:

as the only person who would have applied them

[19:39:42]

skd5aner:

k

[19:39:54]

iamlindoro:

devinheitmueller, I registered our API key, but you can't get stats like that from their interface

[19:40:16]

devinheitmueller:

Yeah, I saw a few basic stats on their site, but nothing broken down.

[19:40:53]

devinheitmueller:

http://thetvdb.com/?tab=reports

[19:41:04]

iamlindoro:

probably wouldn't be much of substantive value, though, as far as myth users are concerned

[19:41:25]

iamlindoro:

as you'd only get info on Mythbuntu, some gentoo users, and anyone who knew enough to manually set up Jamu outside of that

[19:41:57]

devinheitmueller:

Ah. I wasn't sure how "by default" people get the Jamu stuff (since it "just worked" on my Ubuntu box)

[19:42:18]

iamlindoro:

by default you have to know enough to set up jamu properly, then cron the right command line :)

[19:42:27]

devinheitmueller:

Ah.

[19:42:35]

iamlindoro:

Only Mythbuntu and Cardoe's gentoo build do it automagically AFAIK

[19:42:46]

devinheitmueller:

I guess I was taking too much for granted then since it "just worked" for me.

[19:43:09]

skd5aner:

debinheitmueller: I grab myth from SVN, and compile myself, so I only run jamu manually (haven't set up a cron job yet), and would guess many people probably haven't played with it yet

[19:43:24]

iamlindoro:

At some point in the semi-near future I'll get around to making the metadata grabbing stuff generic and build it in to the preview generation

[19:43:31]

skd5aner:

of course, like iamlindoro said, it "just works" for some of the myth distros :)

[19:43:52]

devinheitmueller:

skd5aner: I don't doubt that people who compile from source wouldn't necessarily have the Jamu stuff by default. But I would also assume the vast majority of mythtv users use whatever binary release came with their distro.

[19:44:26]

skd5aner:

true – on that note, how different is "mythtv on ubuntu" from mythbuntu – do they use the exact same packages?

[19:44:46]

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[19:45:02]

devinheitmueller:

Well, in my case I never installed "Mythbuntu". I have a stock Ubuntu install and I installed whatever MythTV packages were offered to me by Synaptec.

[19:45:15]

iamlindoro:

same packages

[19:45:24]

skd5aner:

apt-get install mythtv, so to speak – cool

[19:45:33]

devinheitmueller:

well that's good, since I wouldn't see alot of value in their being a fork.

[19:45:55]

skd5aner:

iamlindoro: yea, that's cool that they're the same – just wasn't sure

[19:46:48]

devinheitmueller:

iamlindoro: Am I assuming correctly that the API key you registered was for the MythTV project in general, and not specifically for Mythbuntu?

[19:47:30]

iamlindoro:

correct

[19:47:40]

devinheitmueller:

ok.

[19:48:15]

skd5aner:

devinheitmueller: to your point earlier, I'd be very curious to see how many users now leverage packages/mythdistros versus grabbing the source or tarball...

[19:48:34]

devinheitmueller:

skd5aner: I would be happy if I could figure out how many people are using MythTV at all!

[19:48:36]

skd5aner:

I would assume you have to be right in your assumption that most people go the pre-packaged route anymore

[19:48:45]

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[19:48:52]

skd5aner:

yea, I can tell – you're on a mission ;)

[19:48:58]

devinheitmueller:

Indeed I am.

[19:49:04]

skd5aner:

I think that questions comes up every few months/years

[19:49:48]

iamlindoro:

devinheitmueller, There is no easy way to figure it out, but an educated guess based on some intelligent hypothesizing and fed by a bit of non-public information implies in the high-ish tens of thousands

[19:50:01]

devinheitmueller:

Well, something like the thetvdb metrics by API key would be pretty revealing if it's generally used on all the distros by default.

[19:50:14]

iamlindoro:

But it's not

[19:50:21]

devinheitmueller:

iamlindoro: yeah, seems that way.

[19:50:51]

meshe:

that or SD numbers + magical math

[19:50:53]

devinheitmueller:

The Jamu stuff seems like enough of a useful feature that I would have thought it would be used by default.

[19:51:16]

devinheitmueller:

Well, SD numbers would be even better. But it's been made pretty clear that those aren't available.

[19:51:31]

iamlindoro:

SD numbers are useless if you care about anything but north america

[19:51:47]

devinheitmueller:

iamlindoro: I don't disagree.

[19:51:58]

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[19:52:24]

iamlindoro:

anyway, I can say with some certainty that the SD numbers are not forthcoming, and that if asked (without a really compelling reason) I'm probably unlikely to track down the TVDB info (or give permission for it to be given to anyone else)

[19:52:55]

iamlindoro:

Now, if you have a really compelling reason for needing the info... but anyway, it would still be anyone's guess

[19:52:59]

devinheitmueller:

I would have thought the thetvdb numbers would be easier to get, given all the content is user created.

[19:53:08]

devinheitmueller:

But I hear you.

[19:53:22]

iamlindoro:

TheTVDB is a shared resource across dozens+ of projects

[19:53:25]

iamlindoro:

XBMC, etc.

[19:53:45]

iamlindoro:

so you'd need to get the info for our key, and the only person who could likely get it would be me :)

[19:53:51]

devinheitmueller:

iamlindoro: true, but factoring in the API keys would allow you to break it down by app.

[19:53:52]

iamlindoro:

feel free to get compelling about why you want to know any time ;)

[19:54:14]

meshe:

the fate of the earth depends on it...

[19:54:34]

meshe:

btw hi iamlindoro, any perl bugs lately?

[19:55:19]

iamlindoro:

meshe, don't think so, but then again, we've dumped the perl grabber

[19:55:33]

meshe:

ahhh cool

[19:55:51]

iamlindoro:

so the perl bindings are sitting disused and waiting for someone to make them as great as wagnerrp has made the python bindings ;)

[19:55:53]

iamlindoro:

hint hint

[19:55:59]

meshe:

hehe

[19:56:09]

meshe:

we'll see :)

[19:56:25]

meshe:

i would love to but time hasn't even been friendly enough to me to chat here

[19:56:32]

meshe:

or install 0.22

[19:56:45]

skd5aner:

devinheitmueller: don't forget that jamu was initially an unofficial project that RDV_Linux created to help mass import, and was beneficially enough to include with myth and him and iamlindoro have been maintaining it...

[19:56:54]

skd5aner:

but it's not myth proper, so that's why it's not default

[19:57:04]

devinheitmueller:

skd5aner: ah, makes sense.

[19:57:12]

skd5aner:

it's only default on the distros because the packagers find the tool to be incredibly useful/beneficial

[19:57:12]

iamlindoro:

Jamu has always been intended to be official

[19:57:24]

devinheitmueller:

Admittedly it was my failure in just taking it for granted since it was there by default on ubuntu.

[19:57:26]

iamlindoro:

it's official, and it's part of Myth proper

[19:57:53]

iamlindoro:

it's just not automated. Jamu exists to fill in certain gaps until it's done in the actual compiled code

[19:58:02]

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[19:58:22]

skd5aner:

:( ok – I misspoke, but I guess I was trying to say that it was an outside script so to speak from myth core, not that it was was some bastard child – my bad

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[19:58:45]

skd5aner:

it obviously is proper, and directly included as a mythvideo script (not even contrib)

[19:58:51]

meshe:

does it have to be moved to the compiled code to be automated?

[19:59:23]

skd5aner:

iamlindoro: thank you, that's what I meant to say ^^^ your last comment

[19:59:37]

iamlindoro:

skd5aner, It's fine, just making sure the info is accurate

[20:00:10]

skd5aner:

np – don't want to mistate the facts (or make it sound like jamu is an afterthough/third party adaptation)

[20:00:48]

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[20:09:41]

jamesd2:

YEAH... Star Trek TNG is back on tv, all is good... :-)

[20:11:12]

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[20:12:21]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: i think sphery has been hinting that for the last several months

[20:13:32]

wagnerrp:

jamesd2: spike and scifi have both aired that for years

[20:13:49]

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[20:13:49]

jamesd2:

wagnerrp, true, but that would be helpful i paid my monthly extortion payments to the cable companies, but i don't thankfully

[20:13:49]

bonelifer:

now sadly SyFy. I thought that was supposed to be a joke at first, the first time I saw it reported. :(

[20:14:01]

cal__:

so this VDPAU thing isnt any better quality or what not that the old method of HD under mythtv, its just a better "standard" and uses less CPU?

[20:14:09]

wagnerrp:

theyre still scifi as long as im concerned

[20:15:37]

bonelifer:

I have a feeling someone is going to "G4" them

[20:16:44]

wagnerrp:

id rather start using gibibibibytes than watch a venereal disease channel

[20:16:44]

meshe:

cal__: it's hardware decoding

[20:16:44]

cal__:

adding on to that, i have a 7300 GS which is apparently too old to support VDPAU. however my HD works fine, but was wondering if its worth it to upgade.

[20:16:44]

wagnerrp:

hardware decoding AND outputting

[20:16:44]

wagnerrp:

as opposed to something like the crystalHD which is decoding only

[20:16:44]

wagnerrp:

cal__: basically, if your processor is fast enough to decode in software, dont bother

[20:16:44]

meshe:

isn't the motto of myth, if it ain't broke, don't fix it?

[20:16:46]

wagnerrp:

is that 7300GS PCIe or AGP?

[20:16:54]

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[20:16:56]

cal__:

wagnerrp : okay that sums it up nicely, thanks

[20:17:23]

bonelifer:

7–10% avg cpu, compared to 40% cpu with non-vdpau, the stats I've seen around the web

[20:17:51]

wagnerrp:

bonelifer: you should have 1–2% CPU usage with VDPAU

[20:18:01]

wagnerrp:

vs. whatever it takes for your processor to decode the content without VDPAU

[20:18:17]

bonelifer:

+wagnerrp: well these were some older websites

[20:22:25]

cal__:

wagnerrp: i cant use some of the more intensive deinterlacers for HD though.. i have to use linear blend. so may still be worth it to upgrade?

[20:23:12]

wagnerrp:

cal__: do you have a PCIe or AGP card currently?

[20:24:21]

cal__:

pci... 7300 GS

[20:24:37]

bonelifer:

do you have a free pci-e x16 slot?

[20:24:40]

wagnerrp:

PCI, or PCIe?

[20:25:06]

cal__:

prolly PCIe been awhile since i had the box apart

[20:25:14]

cal__:

no clue if i have a free slot

[20:26:45]

wagnerrp:

free slot wouldnt matter if hes just replacing the existing card

[20:26:57]

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[20:28:13]

cal__:

i use ffmeg&XVideo w/ Linear Blend

[20:30:37]

cal__:

are there betters settings than that as far as noticable change in HD quality if i went with better card that could do VDPAU

[20:31:31]

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[20:32:02]

wagnerrp:

what output are you using?

[20:32:43]

cal__:

dvi->hdmi

[20:33:16]

wagnerrp:

i ask because i noticed a significant increase in quality from svideo on a 6200 to svideo on an 8400

[20:33:27]

wagnerrp:

digital wouldnt matter

[20:33:37]

wagnerrp:

and if your processor is capable of decoding the material currently

[20:33:49]

wagnerrp:

the only benefit you would get would be a better deint filter

[20:34:03]

cal__:

yeah

[20:34:09]

wagnerrp:

however if you dont have a PCIe x16 slot, dont even bother

[20:34:29]

cal__:

would that make ghosting when the camera is panning better? (a better deinterlacer)

[20:35:15]

wagnerrp:

if the ghosting is caused by your deint filter

[20:35:28]

cal__:

i noticed camera panning looks a lot better when i go direct to my tv from hd cable rather than through mythtv (ie, camera panning across the football field when they are running)

[20:35:52]

cal__:

i think that is called ghosting

[20:39:23]

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[21:01:26]

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[21:02:05]

wagnerrp:

is that a P4 or a Xeon?

[21:02:27]

Er1K:

I (finally) have a bunch of 1080i channels, but can't play them, and I'm looking for some video card advice...

[21:02:27]

Er1K:

<Er1K> Box is a Dell poweredge server, 2.8ghz p4, no x16 slots, and a limited number of pci slots, so I'm pretty well stuck with pci for video

[21:02:39]

wagnerrp:

dont paste

[21:02:45]

Er1K:

sorry

[21:03:05]

Er1K:

if you were asking me, it's a normal p4, but the box I'm typing on is a p4 xeon and I could swap them...not a big deal if that will make the difference

[21:03:33]

wagnerrp:

i was more wondering if it were some special dual-processor server

[21:03:52]

Er1K:

nope...ironically, this box is (dual xeon 2.4's)

[21:04:11]

Er1K:

(this box is a dell precision workstation, the cheapo server is a poweredge something or another)

[21:04:27]

wagnerrp:

but in that case, is there any reason why youre unwilling to part with an old desktop (considering its single processor, it may as well be)

[21:04:59]

Er1K:

Money, mainly. I could make do with the single p4 myself for a few months, though. Hadn't really thought of that.

[21:05:05]

Er1K:

Are there any cheap agp cards that will do the trick nicely?

[21:05:16]

wagnerrp:

as it stands, that 2.8 is going to be marginally capable of decoding broadcast mpeg2

[21:05:26]

wagnerrp:

and no AGP cards support VDPAU

[21:05:31]

Er1K:

that's what I thought

[21:05:52]

wagnerrp:

and PCI is really going to be hurting if you try to run a 1080p display

[21:06:40]

wagnerrp:

<$200 gets you a new system with onboard nvidia graphics, dual core amd processor, and 2GB of memory

[21:06:41]

Er1K:

Would a vdpau card likely display the 1080i broadcast/cable stuff on the 720p display without jitter on the 2.8?

[21:06:44]

Er1K:

hmmmmm

[21:06:51]

Er1K:

that's dang tempting, I hadn't been following prices

[21:07:09]

Er1K:

will the onboard nvidia do vdpau?

[21:07:32]

wagnerrp:

yes

[21:07:49]

sid3windr:

so guys

[21:07:52]

sid3windr:

I found this perl script

[21:07:58]

sid3windr:

and since I'm in europe

[21:07:58]

Er1K:

Coolies. That sounds like the ticket, and one of the kids willl love the upgrade that the p4 will be for them

[21:08:07]

sid3windr:

do I need to use the euro sign instead of the dollar sign?

[21:08:10]

sid3windr:

]:)

[21:09:19]

wagnerrp:

assuming you get a 8 or 9 series board

[21:09:48]

Er1K:

I'd been trying to find a use for the now-unused s-video port on the 2.8....think I'll plug that into an rf modulator and have mythtv in the *rest* of the house :)

[21:09:52]

Er1K:

(only have 5 frontends right now)

[21:10:03]

Er1K:

any suggestions on a board that is cheap that would do the trick?

[21:10:13]

sid3windr:

only 5, heh

[21:10:28]

Er1K:

I have two matched pairs of 1gb pc6200, will those do me any good in this ordeal?

[21:10:45]

wagnerrp:

DDR2 6400?

[21:11:01]

Er1K:

Yes. I got them for the poweredge box, but it won't take anything but ECC

[21:11:08]

Er1K:

and this box uses rambus (ick)

[21:11:11]

Er1K:

so they just sit here

[21:11:14]

wagnerrp:

just make sure you get a board that still takes DDR2, and you can knock ~$50 off the price

[21:11:34]

Er1K:

$50 might mean the difference between doing it in february vs. march, so that's important

[21:11:36]

Er1K:

tyvm

[21:12:08]

J-e-f-f-A:

sid3windr: didn't you ask that last week, and the week before, and the week before...

[21:12:22]

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[21:12:34]

Er1K:

get a cheap combo to replace the 2.8, pass that machine to Mr. 11, get work to buy me a new box to replace this dual xeon, pass that box to Mr. 13

[21:12:37]

Er1K:

schweet

[21:12:38]

Er1K:

ty

[21:12:41]

sid3windr:

J-e-f-f-A: no, I just miss the guy that came in and asked that over and over.. ;)

[21:12:45]

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[21:12:57]

J-e-f-f-A:

sid3windr: Ah, ok.

[21:13:22]

sid3windr:

I should have gone into the perl devroom and asked that at fosdem

[21:13:26]

sid3windr:

would have been hilarious

[21:13:34]

sid3windr:

.. or I would have ended up dead somewhere :p

[21:14:03]

Er1K:

sid3windr: 4 of my frontends are old p3/athlon gear netbooting ubuntu 9.10. Once I got the kinks out, it works VERY well, but now everybody in the house wants HD :)

[21:14:10]

sid3windr:

:)

[21:14:31]

sid3windr:

I'm getting dvb-s soonish and I have hdtvs so I'm looking into that as well

[21:14:43]

J-e-f-f-A:

Er1K: Yep... ;-) That's how it works. "Holy *bleep* that's clear... can I get that in my room?"

[21:15:01]

Er1K:

I have a technotrend 3600 card and a hauppauge 1800

[21:15:06]

sid3windr:

living room frontend also went from p3 800 through duron 2400+ to the pentium d thing it is now

[21:15:11]

Er1K:

the hd is from the hauppauge...but it's real

[21:15:49]

Er1K:

Only took threatening to file both an fcc and puc complaint and suddenly charter is no longer encrypting the broadcast hd

[21:15:51]

Er1K:

imagine that

[21:15:58]

wagnerrp:

ugh... postfix keeps hammering my system for some reason

[21:16:29]

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[21:18:40]

Er1K:

wagnerrp: If you have spam filters being triggered by the postfix delivery process, those might be worth looking at...

[21:18:47]

Er1K:

btdt

[21:18:48]

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[21:18:54]

wagnerrp:

nope, just some simple maildrop

[21:19:29]

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[21:19:43]

** sid3windr zz **

[21:23:41]

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[21:27:58]

Er1K:

sid3windr: Although the S-2 portions of the card do me no good, you might be happy with the s2–3600. I generally recommend liplanian's repo over stock, but with newer drivers it works quite well.

[21:28:37]

Er1K:

and it's a steve. I may still need my iptv hack to use it's analog side in myth, but TY for the working 28335 drivers.

[21:28:40]

Er1K:

TY again.

[21:29:02]

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[21:30:51]

Er1K:

stoth: I've also learned the ins and outs of v4l2 and v4l-dvb drivers partially thanks to you. Thanks again. if I perchance had patches to make the cx23885 analog rf tuner work perfectly in myth, would you like them?

[21:31:30]

stoth:

Er1K: sure.

[21:32:01]

Er1K:

Coolies. I stopped maintaining them quite some time ago, but I'll make them fly again :)

[21:33:01]

Er1K:

you have an email addy or similar on your kernellabs site?

[21:38:39]

wagnerrp:

ugh... i lost 4 minutes of recordings tonight because of that

[21:39:05]

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[21:42:59]

Er1K:

and that was 23885, excuse me :)

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[22:29:25]

vhann:

Is anybody else experiencing problems with getting 2 tuner cards to work? (Hauppauge PVR-500 and DviCO FusionHDTV7 Dual Express)

[22:29:39]

vhann:

+in my case

[22:29:42]

wagnerrp:

im using three tuner cards

[22:29:55]

wagnerrp:

plus a pair of ethernet attached tuners

[22:29:58]

wagnerrp:

(one machine)

[22:30:35]

vhann:

wagnerrp: Are they using the same driver?

[22:30:47]

wagnerrp:

three different types of card

[22:31:31]

vhann:

Hum, then I don't understand

[22:32:18]

vhann:

The Hauppauge used to work but since I changed kernel to get the DviCO to be recognized, it doesn't seem to work anymore using v4l2-ctl

[22:32:50]

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[22:33:39]

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[22:33:40]

vhann:

wagnerrp: Got any Hauppauge?

[22:33:55]

stoth:

Er1K: stoth@kernellabs.com

[22:34:22]

wagnerrp:

vhann: two 150s, and a 1250

[22:34:37]

[R]:

wagnerrp: i almost could have gotten a 150 for $15... should i have done it?

[22:34:39]

stoth:

Er1K: The drivers on the -api tree mostly work for myth by a dma channel change issue prevents their release.

[22:34:45]

stoth:

s/by/but/

[22:35:00]

wagnerrp:

[R]: if youve got any use capturing standard def

[22:35:03]

vhann:

[R]: Where? I'll buy it NOW

[22:35:11]

[R]:

vhann: it was on craigslist

[22:35:33]

wagnerrp:

well nevermind then... you can usually pick them up on ebay for ~$20

[22:35:55]

[R]:

wagnerrp: well i get conflicts from my "all family guy and all king of the hill" that show up on the analog cartoon network and my "all cops" that shows up on truetv

[22:36:12]

[R]:

but i don't really care enough about missing those that i want to buy a 150

[22:38:08]

vhann:

wagnerrp: 20$ not counting shipping (and some eBay vendors can charge nice amounts in "shipping")

[22:38:12]

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[22:44:27]

Beirdo:

muhahah

[22:44:54]

keith4__:

i upgraded to .22, and now I can't figure out how to add more videos to whatever has become of "mythvideo"

[22:44:58]

Beirdo:

beirdobot now has a small webservice that will make searching from the web page much simpler

[22:45:32]

[R]:

keith4__: select scan from the menu

[22:46:09]

keith4__:

brilliant!

[22:48:02]

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[22:48:44]

vhann:

wagnerrp: Isn't Hauppauge WinTV PVR-150/500 able to record up to 720p?

[22:49:05]

wagnerrp:

no

[22:49:07]

wagnerrp:

480i

[22:49:22]

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[22:50:41]

vhann:

wagnerrp: Weird, I'm pretty sure my PVR-500 records in 720p

[22:50:55]

wagnerrp:

im pretty sure its 480i

[22:50:59]

Beirdo:

ummm 720x480 perhaps

[22:51:07]

Beirdo:

which is 480i :)

[22:51:18]

vhann:

Lemme check, ssh'ing to server

[22:52:09]

Beirdo:

la la la

[22:52:16]

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[22:52:18]

Beirdo:

:)

[22:52:24]

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[22:52:53]

vhann:

Yup, you're right

[22:54:43]

vhann:

How big is 720p in bytes/second? (480i seems to be around 2GiB/hour)

[22:55:18]

wagnerrp:

83MB/s

[22:55:35]

Beirdo:

up to 83MB/s that is, right?

[22:55:49]

Beirdo:

i.e. sometimes lower bitrate?

[22:55:58]

wagnerrp:

well once you throw in compression, who knows how big it will be

[22:55:59]

Beirdo:

and isn't that mbit/s?

[22:56:07]

Beirdo:

oooh

[22:56:11]

Beirdo:

that's raw rate :)

[22:56:12]

Beirdo:

hehe

[22:56:39]

Beirdo:

right. I forget the usual bitrates for 720p. Been too long since I was looking into that

[22:57:05]

Beirdo:

!list

[22:57:13]

Beirdo:

oh good, he's identified

[22:57:19]

Beirdo:

!seen SlicerDicer

[22:57:19]

MythLogBot:

SlicerDicer was last seen 61 days 21 hours 42 minutes 37 seconds ago

[22:57:23]

Beirdo:

dammit

[22:57:42]

Beirdo:

he'd probably know the answer, he messed with it a lot

[22:57:45]

wagnerrp:

vhann: ATSC is going to be somewhere between 8–18mbps

[22:58:05]

wagnerrp:

and you have no control over that, you get it at whatever your broadcaster sends it at

[22:58:29]

Beirdo:

which can be different per show, IIRC

[22:58:30]

wagnerrp:

720p off a HDPVR is going to be at whatever bitrate you set in the recording profiles

[22:58:38]

vhann:

wagnerrp: Isn't ATSC the old standard and NTSC the new (digital) one?

[22:58:50]

Beirdo:

vhann: exactly backwards

[22:59:06]

wagnerrp:

similarly 480i is going to be 15.5MB/s

[22:59:06]

Beirdo:

there's nothing new about NTSC :)

[22:59:22]

wagnerrp:

however whatever you are getting out of your PVR is whatever bitrate you have set in your recording profile

[22:59:32]

wagnerrp:

and at 2GB/hr, that sounds like the default 4400kbps

[23:01:04]

vhann:

wagnerrp: Ok, I was trying to compute how much storage space I would need was I to record in higher quality

[23:01:55]

vhann:

And since I don't really see pixels on a 42" tv in 480i, I don't think I'll switch

[23:02:15]

wagnerrp:

must be blind

[23:03:00]

vhann:

wagnerrp: Maybe. You know, I grew up with VHS so 480i is good enough quality to me

[23:03:51]

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[23:04:27]

wagnerrp:

on my 26", 720p is just beyond my limit of making out individual pixels from across the room

[23:04:41]

wagnerrp:

but even 480i to 480p is a vast improvement on quality

[23:05:02]

vhann:

progressive scan is better than interlaced?

[23:05:14]

wagnerrp:

yes, its not interlaced

[23:05:48]

wagnerrp:

interlacing halves the video content

[23:05:59]

vhann:

I usually use the 'deinterlace' option in xine and it doesn't look too bad

[23:06:08]

wagnerrp:

each line only updates every other frame

[23:06:51]

vhann:

wagnerrp: How do you store your videos? Blu-ray DL?

[23:06:59]

wagnerrp:

dl?

[23:07:04]

vhann:

Dual Layer

[23:07:20]

wagnerrp:

too expensive, and a nuisance

[23:07:31]

wagnerrp:

hard drives are far cheaper

[23:07:41]

wagnerrp:

and you dont have to swap them out

[23:08:58]

vhann:

wagnerrp: Sure. I don't know how much video you record, but considering my 1 TiB storage server is almost full of 480i videos (again)

[23:09:23]

vhann:

Using DVDs is a not too bad idea

[23:09:59]

vhann:

How big is say a 2 hours 720p movie?

[23:10:13]

[R]:

at what bitrate

[23:10:17]

wagnerrp:

over ATSC, youre looking at ~15GB

[23:10:32]

wagnerrp:

over bluray or hddvd, i doubt youll find 720p

[23:10:55]

vhann:

wagnerrp: What is Blu-Ray's typical resolution?

[23:11:03]

wagnerrp:

DVDRs are barely cheaper than hard drives, DVD-DLs are more expensive than hard drives for the same amount of space

[23:11:06]

wagnerrp:

1080p

[23:11:31]

wagnerrp:

and you still have to deal with the problem of swapping out disks every 4 or 8GB

[23:11:35]

Beirdo:

DVD-R do make better frisbees than hard drives though

[23:11:52]

wagnerrp:

just like BDRs, theyre a nuisance

[23:11:56]

vhann:

wagnerrp: Yeah, but you'd still need to swap hard drives if you have sheer volumes of videos

[23:11:59]

Beirdo:

fringe benefits :)

[23:12:16]

wagnerrp:

yeah, but youre talking about a 1–2TB drive

[23:12:31]

vhann:

Beirdo: Hehe, throwing CDs is fun

[23:12:41]

wagnerrp:

which takes 15 seconds to swap with a hotswap bay or stand

[23:13:05]

Beirdo:

trust me... one-way encrypting hard drives against a concrete floor is immense fun too :)

[23:13:15]

wagnerrp:

and thats assuming you dont just keep all those drives in a server

[23:13:20]

Beirdo:

they usually last 2–3 throws before disintegrating

[23:13:43]

wagnerrp:

ive got some 6TB of storage, and as far as myth setups go, thats midrange

[23:14:23]

Beirdo:

dangit, ohloh... update my project already :)

[23:16:51]

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[23:23:13]

vhann:

wagnerrp: Do you have redundancy/backup for your 6TB?

[23:24:14]

wagnerrp:

3 independent 300GBs for recordings

[23:24:25]

wagnerrp:

5250GB in a RAID6 for long term storage

[23:25:26]

vhann:

Hehe, not bad ;)

[23:26:29]

vhann:

How can I tell if a video is interlaced or progressive scan?

[23:26:38]

vhann:

Does ffmpeg provide this information?

[23:27:48]

[R]:

myth detects while its playing

[23:27:50]

[R]:

so i don't think so

[23:28:31]

Beirdo:

Isn't progressive scan usually at twice the refresh rate?

[23:28:35]

Beirdo:

errr frame rate

[23:28:42]

Beirdo:

stupid me needs sleep

[23:28:55]

Beirdo:

so NTSC progressive at 60fps?

[23:28:57]

vhann:

So 29.97 tb(r) would mean interlaced?

[23:29:24]

Beirdo:

I think so, but I'm not sure anymore :)

[23:29:25]

Beirdo:

heh

[23:33:47]

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[23:55:40]

wagnerrp:

vhann: yes, interlaced TV is 60 fields/s or 30 frames/s

[23:56:02]

wagnerrp:

technically 30000/1001 for reasons i dont care to understand

[23:56:36]

vhann:

wagnerrp: I've been searching for information for the last 30 mins but didn't find anything. Can PVR-500 do 480p?

[23:56:43]

wagnerrp:

no

[23:56:53]

wagnerrp:

there is no progressive form of NTSC

[23:57:02]

wagnerrp:

which is what the PVR cards are capable of

[23:57:15]

wagnerrp:

if you want progressive, you have to bump up to component video

[23:57:19]

wagnerrp:

or something digital

[23:57:44]

vhann:

I'll check if the DviCO FusionHDTV7 can do 480p

[23:58:15]

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[23:58:40]

wagnerrp:

its a digital tuner, meaning it will just capture whatever the broadcaster sends it

[23:58:58]

vhann:

How much is a PVR-500 worth? I think I might have paid too much for it

[23:58:59]

wagnerrp:

it doesnt care what the resolution is

[23:59:15]

vhann:

wagnerrp: So it would even be able to capture 1080p right?

[23:59:23]

wagnerrp:

if you have someone broadcasting 1080p

[23:59:41]

wagnerrp:

the card doesnt care, so long as the stream is properly modulated and below the maximum bitrate

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