Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Monday, February 22nd, 2010, 00:01 AST

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[01:32:28]

Jester05:

hey

[01:33:05]

Jester05:

does anyone know if I could use a regular wireless adapter as a wireless accesspoint assuming I run the right software?

[01:33:17]

Jester05:

i'm looking at building my own router..

[01:33:24]

wagnerrp:

thise doesnt sound like it has anything to do with mythtv

[01:33:35]

Jester05:

well its for mythtv..

[01:33:50]

wagnerrp:

its for your home network

[01:33:51]

Jester05:

i want to be able to stream my 1080p material wirelessly

[01:34:01]

wagnerrp:

youre not actually intending to play content wirelessly are you?

[01:34:07]

Jester05:

yes but I was in here a while back and had talked to someone about it for ab it

[01:34:22]

Jester05:

using 3 draft n channels it can be done

[01:34:40]

wagnerrp:

no, it cannot

[01:34:42]

Jester05:

and I found a 3 channel draft N adapter for pretty cheap

[01:35:09]

wagnerrp:

G carries sufficient bandwidth for nearly all of the content mythtv will use

[01:35:13]

wagnerrp:

but it doesnt have the reliability

[01:35:15]

Jester05:

each channel of draft N is running ~130Mbps

[01:35:19]

wagnerrp:

your network WILL drop

[01:35:25]

wagnerrp:

and not infrequently

[01:35:29]

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[01:35:39]

wagnerrp:

it may only happen for a couple seconds at a time

[01:35:44]

Jester05:

i've used my G setup for 720p w/ no real problems.. at night

[01:35:49]

wagnerrp:

but mythtv is not designed for such a network

[01:36:02]

Jester05:

but using (3) wireless N channels you should be fine..

[01:36:04]

wagnerrp:

it has very little buffer

[01:36:16]

[R]:

Jester05: its not a bw issue

[01:36:35]

Jester05:

what is the problem with it then?

[01:36:41]

RyeBrye:

I'm using wide channel N and have no problems

[01:36:42]

wagnerrp:

as mentioned, reliability

[01:36:57]

wagnerrp:

is there a reason you cannot run wires?

[01:37:30]

Jester05:

wagnerrp, perhaps your gear is just showing age?

[01:37:43]

wagnerrp:

got nothing to do with that

[01:37:50]

Jester05:

I know of alot of people who use wireless to stream gigs worth of data without issue

[01:38:06]

wagnerrp:

transfer is one thing

[01:38:09]

RyeBrye:

But I use the N network exclusively for one link between my n router and the frontend machine that I can't run wires to – and I have it on a non-congested part of the spectrum for my area. I'm usually over 130Mbps

[01:38:24]

wagnerrp:

with realtime use, you will have network dropouts

[01:38:31]

wagnerrp:

and it will cause pausing in mythtv playback

[01:38:51]

RyeBrye:

I do occasionally have that in myth – I would say it is pretty rare – but it does happen

[01:39:09]

RyeBrye:

If there was any practical way to run wires to where the frontend is, I would

[01:39:09]

Jester05:

I agree to an extent but I've heard that its possible with good gear.. as RyeBrye is saying

[01:39:51]

Jester05:

at any rate... take a look at this card guys

[01:39:51]

Jester05:

http://www.amazon.com/TP-LINK-TL-WN951N-802-1 . . . p/B002D11AYY

[01:39:53]

wagnerrp:

go ahead if you want, either way, this is not the channel for help configuring your computer as an access point

[01:40:29]

RyeBrye:

I also bought 9dbi antennas for the 802.11n card in my frontend fwiw

[01:40:36]

RyeBrye:

before I did that I had a lot of dropouts

[01:40:41]

Jester05:

well wagnerrp no one else seems to be holding a conversation and if RyeBrye wants to talk to me about it .. whats the issue?

[01:41:16]

Jester05:

RyeBrye, I assumed I'd have to be running external antennas across the board

[01:41:30]

wagnerrp:

the issue is that there are much better places to be holding this conversation

[01:41:42]

wagnerrp:

generally, your distro's channel

[01:41:57]

wagnerrp:

one where there will be people who know the ins and outs of this sort of thing

[01:42:06]

RyeBrye:

Oh, but I am not setting up my computer as an AP – I have a linksys wrt350n router I'm using as the AP

[01:42:14]

Jester05:

wagnerrp, I don't have a specific distro.. I run anything and everything depending on which box it is and how much time I had to configure that box at the time of setting itup

[01:42:54]

wagnerrp:

Jester05: in that case, you may want to check out the ALIX and Soekris boards

[01:43:01]

wagnerrp:

see what people generally run on those systems

[01:43:23]

Jester05:

RyeBrye, does it seem like your router gets overworked at times streaming for myth? .. we have a 10/100/1000 LAN router but it seems like that router couldn't keep up with the data transfer.. note its being used for myth and general use

[01:43:37]

Jester05:

alright

[01:43:58]

RyeBrye:

No, it handles it all fine. the 350n has a fair amount of RAM and a gigabit switch

[01:44:05]

wagnerrp:

your machines, and more likely the protocols youre using, are going to drop out before you saturate any decent gigabit switch

[01:44:08]

RyeBrye:

I'm running dd-wrt on it

[01:44:25]

Jester05:

wagnerrp, have you ever done anything crazy with your myth system.. I'm kind of trying to figure out what the capabilities of myth are.. seems to be endless thus far

[01:44:55]

wagnerrp:

no real way to answer an indirect question like that

[01:45:18]

RyeBrye:

I don't think the people here would consider what they do crazy... and if there are limitations that a dev runs into he will code up a solution to remove that limitation

[01:45:24]

wagnerrp:

the only thing 'abnormal' ive really got going on my systems is my boot

[01:45:32]

Jester05:

I know .. I just don't know what all has been done on it yet.. it would be nice to use it for home security too

[01:45:36]

RyeBrye:

diskless nfs stuff?

[01:45:50]

wagnerrp:

i run multiple systems off a single cloned disk image over iscsi

[01:46:28]

[R]:

diskless nbd > diskless nfs

[01:46:34]

Jester05:

I had been looking at doing something like that

[01:46:43]

Jester05:

creating a mythtv cluster essentially

[01:46:48]

wagnerrp:

i update one image, clone it, copy an overlay for each individual system

[01:46:57]

wagnerrp:

makes it much easier to maintain several systems

[01:47:06]

Jester05:

hmm

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[01:47:24]

Jester05:

that would be significantly easier

[01:47:25]

RyeBrye:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=33-315-078 is the card I uses FWIW. works out of the box in ubuntu 9.4+

[01:48:06]

Jester05:

alright thanks RyeBrye .. i just found a broadcom for $15 :-\

[01:48:16]

Jester05:

dunno if i'd trust that manufacturer tho

[01:48:36]

Jester05:

esp not if I want to try to use it for myth lol

[01:48:39]

wagnerrp:

as far as other stuff... setups 'normal' people would consider crazy are par for the course around here

[01:48:39]

RyeBrye:

istr the card I bought being cheaper when I got it

[01:48:59]

wagnerrp:

its nothing for someone to have a 10+TB setup, with half a dozen tuners or more

[01:49:11]

RyeBrye:

and undervolting the hard drives to make them quieter

[01:49:24]

Jester05:

yeah

[01:49:29]

Brad-D:

i just upgraded to 10TB this past week :) only two tuners though, haha

[01:49:34]

wagnerrp:

or link in a phone, security, or home automation system

[01:49:37]

Jester05:

I've just recently gotten into the mythtv world

[01:49:41]

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RyeBrye:

Yeah, I have 6 tuners – although I haven't bothered to get 2 of them set up recently since I don't ever need more than 4

[01:50:13]

RyeBrye:

I saw an article about some dude with features he wanted DVRs to come out with in some big blog... every one of the features were in Myth and have been for years

[01:50:54]

Jester05:

I have a 500g hdd for recordings and 1T for videos/music

[01:50:55]

Jester05:

lol

[01:51:02]

Jester05:

and 2 analog tuners

[01:51:06]

wagnerrp:

yeah... watch your recordings in any room! schedule recordings from any web browser or phone!

[01:51:09]

wagnerrp:

been there...

[01:51:09]

Jester05:

have 2 digital but I haven't set them up yet

[01:51:43]

Jester05:

lol yeah I was pretty happy when I realized I could use mythweb from my win mobile 6.1 phone

[01:51:47]

Jester05:

have to use opera but eh

[01:52:14]

Jester05:

I also got into using ssh for maintaining all of my networked boxes

[01:52:41]

Jester05:

I can now ssh from my cellphone which is great when i'm out and about and realize myth has frozen up.. only happened once but still

[01:52:51]

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[01:53:31]

Jester05:

alright guys I have a good one for you

[01:53:34]

RyeBrye:

The only time myth gets shut down is when my 16 month old decides to hold in the big button on the front of my combined be / fe downstairs

[01:53:34]

wagnerrp:

anyway, those ALIX and Soekris boxes have their own communities based around turning them into rather high end routers and access points

[01:53:39]

wagnerrp:

Jester05: ^^^

[01:54:33]

Jester05:

wagnerrp, I got you.. I was going to use an old p4 2.4ghz slim box i have tho

[01:54:35]

Jester05:

not sure..

[01:54:49]

Jester05:

its frontending in my bedroom but.. cant do 1080 :-\

[01:54:52]

wagnerrp:

right, im just saying they would have guides explaining what you need to do

[01:54:55]

Jester05:

seems to handle 720p well enough

[01:55:09]

Jester05:

yeah I'll look up their channel in a bit

[01:55:19]

Jester05:

but I have a question thats up your alley

[01:55:26]

RyeBrye:

Jester05: you have a vdpau capable card in that p4 box? 1080 would be nothing for it with a decent nvidia card

[01:55:30]

Jester05:

and it'll hinge what i do router wise

[01:55:33]

wagnerrp:

is this old P4 going to be doing anything other than acting as an access point?

[01:56:16]

Jester05:

RyeBrye, this box is OLDDD and i dont want to put more money in it if I dont have to.. plus I cant find a AGP vdpau cap card

[01:56:31]

[R]:

pci!

[01:56:32]

Jester05:

wagnerrp, thats what I'm unsure of

[01:56:52]

wagnerrp:

if not, youll do much better shelling out $200 for a little ALIX box, or ~$100 for a nice router

[01:56:58]

wagnerrp:

get something low power

[01:57:10]

Chicago:

wagnerrp, hey

[01:57:11]

wagnerrp:

that P4 is probably draining almost $100/yr in power costs

[01:57:17]

Jester05:

yeah I've considered that too

[01:57:28]

Jester05:

i'll get to my other ? tho

[01:57:45]

Jester05:

I need to give you some background on my myth setup so you know it tho

[01:57:55]

wagnerrp:

shoot

[01:58:05]

Chicago:

wagnerrp, if the mythzoneminder is going away... using the configuration I mentioned yesterday; is there any reason not to have the "camera" now come up as a channel in mythguide? Perhaps either always recording or not... with full access to the myth internal player

[01:58:40]

wagnerrp:

Chicago: im not saying its going away

[01:58:49]

Jester05:

wagnerrp, my master backend is also my main frontend in my living room.. its an old P4 2.8ghz @ 800mhz, 2x2gig @ 400mhz, FX5700LE

[01:58:58]

RyeBrye:

I thought mythzoneminder was abandoned

[01:59:02]

wagnerrp:

im saying theres discussion about dropping it as an official plugin, since none of the current devs use it and want to maintain it

[01:59:05]

Chicago:

oh okay, I thought perhaps without a maintainer it would simply degrade by itself over time

[01:59:09]

wagnerrp:

right

[01:59:15]

Jester05:

the issue is.. it does not handle 1080 at all and rarely 720..

[01:59:38]

wagnerrp:

Jester05: what motherboard?

[01:59:50]

Jester05:

I dont know if I should drop that box completely and just build a new box for frontend and backend or use the new box only for frontend and keep the master backend as backend

[02:00:07]

Jester05:

wagnerrp, its an old chaintec

[02:00:16]

Jester05:

I have it maxed pretty much

[02:00:17]

wagnerrp:

socket 775 or 478?

[02:00:22]

Jester05:

478

[02:00:32]

wagnerrp:

ah... better to just swap out the guts

[02:00:35]

Jester05:

800fsb 400rsb

[02:01:04]

wagnerrp:

you can pick up a nice AMD dual core, nvidia graphics, and 2GB of memory for <$200

[02:01:17]

wagnerrp:

plenty for a combined FE/BE on most mythtv setups

[02:01:19]

Jester05:

yeah but.. do I want to make a new pc do backend work too or dual boot it as a myth frontend and allow for windows gaming on my 52" samsung w/ 500w surround lol

[02:01:41]

Jester05:

also.. all of my tuner cards are PCI

[02:02:00]

Chicago:

Jester05, a dual-booting backend would probably be more of an interruption to your recording schedule than its worth.

[02:02:00]

Jester05:

I have 2 analogs which I'm using.. and 2 digital which i am not currently using

[02:02:08]

wagnerrp:

use the old P4 for backend and access point duty

[02:02:09]

Jester05:

and both my digitals can tune 2 streams at once

[02:02:10]

RyeBrye:

I keep looking for excuses to buy more tuners or to upgrade to a digital cable with HD premium package and get an HD-PVR – but haven't found any yet :(

[02:02:20]

wagnerrp:

buy a new box as a frontend-only/gaming machine

[02:02:47]

wagnerrp:

Jester05: theyre dual tuner cards?

[02:02:57]

[R]:

RyeBrye: hd makes me happy

[02:03:01]

Jester05:

yeah.. i was shocked

[02:03:09]

wagnerrp:

what model?

[02:03:14]

Jester05:

wagnerrp, they're old divio's

[02:03:17]

Jester05:

3 and 5

[02:03:23]

Jester05:

lemme find a link

[02:03:44]

wagnerrp:

divco?

[02:03:56]

Jester05:

i have the Dvico HDTV 3 and HDTV 5

[02:04:07]

Jester05:

they SUCK for analog use

[02:04:23]

Jester05:

but digital.. I've only used once but worked well at the time

[02:04:38]

RyeBrye:

I have a HDHR and I love it

[02:04:55]

Jester05:

I need to take the time to set myth up to use them for unencrypted digital

[02:05:17]

Jester05:

RyeBrye, how do you change the channel? IR or something else?

[02:05:36]

wagnerrp:

HDHR is a digital tuner, myth changes channels directly

[02:05:46]

Jester05:

ohhh

[02:05:55]

Jester05:

i thought it was a component tuner

[02:05:59]

Jester05:

well recorder*

[02:06:18]

RyeBrye:

HD-PVR is the component one

[02:06:23]

Jester05:

ahh

[02:06:27]

Jester05:

yes thats what I'm thinking

[02:06:41]

wagnerrp:

are you sure thats a dual tuner? i see no mention of such on their website

[02:06:53]

Jester05:

wagnerrp, who?

[02:06:57]

wagnerrp:

you

[02:07:11]

Jester05:

yes I've used them for digital in the past

[02:07:24]

wagnerrp:

you can record multiple things simultaneously on a single tuner

[02:07:26]

Jester05:

back in .. windows :-x

[02:07:28]

wagnerrp:

mythtv defaults to two

[02:07:29]

Jester05:

and once in linux

[02:07:51]

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[02:08:08]

Jester05:

wagnerrp, I'm pretty sure myth showed it as 2 tuners

[02:08:19]

wagnerrp:

yes, it will show up in mythtv as two tuners

[02:08:28]

wagnerrp:

however it will only show up in linux as a single tuner

[02:08:35]

Jester05:

yeah

[02:08:51]

wagnerrp:

its a somewhat confusing convention in mythtv of what it calls 'multirec'

[02:09:05]

Chicago:

once upon a time on a Monday. My HD Homerun was set as "two" inputs per tuner and was scheduled to record House on FOX and Chuck on NBC at the same time... since both recordings ended up being of Chuck and I didn't get House... I'm wondering, is the limit to recording two programs from one tuner on an hdhr limited to streams available only on the same multiplex?

[02:09:08]

Jester05:

hmm

[02:09:15]

wagnerrp:

basically, you capture the entire stream on one channel, and you record multiple subchannels there in

[02:09:59]

wagnerrp:

Chicago: all recordings on a single tuner must be on the same multiplex

[02:10:06]

Jester05:

I just know i've watched one feed and it allowed me to switch to a different tuner.. as i said I haven't messed much with it

[02:10:10]

wagnerrp:

meaning they must be on the same physical frequency

[02:10:16]

Chicago:

do I need to nanny that myself, or should mythbackend be a genius for me?

[02:10:16]

Jester05:

ohh

[02:10:36]

wagnerrp:

mythbackend is supposed to manage scheduling of all that properly

[02:10:48]

wagnerrp:

not sure how you could have ended up with two recordings of the same thing

[02:10:54]

wagnerrp:

unless your channel table was messed up

[02:11:12]

Chicago:

okay, maybe it was only a fluke... since then I've set the HDHR's to be seen as only "one"... I guess I can give it a shot again tomorrow... Monday is my busiest day for recording live television.

[02:11:26]

wagnerrp:

are you using broadcast or cable?

[02:11:31]

Chicago:

yes

[02:11:38]

Chicago:

ATSC on digital cable

[02:11:51]

wagnerrp:

so QAM cable

[02:12:00]

Chicago:

yes, exactly

[02:12:10]

wagnerrp:

QAM256 has roughly double the bandwidth of broadcast ATSC (8VSB)

[02:12:18]

Jester05:

prob qam 256

[02:12:18]

wagnerrp:

so its actually worthwhile for multirec

[02:12:37]

Jester05:

I have qam 256

[02:12:45]

wagnerrp:

the only thing multirec gets you on broadcast is better capability of managing overlap between shows on the same channel

[02:12:50]

Jester05:

but.. I dont know how much of it is uncrypted

[02:13:07]

wagnerrp:

you can do it on a single tuner, rather than having to use two separate tuners during the overlap period

[02:13:27]

Chicago:

Jester05, a channel scan which shows you the available channels is useful... and fortunately the channel map changes over time and new unencrypted channels may become available for you.

[02:13:38]

Jester05:

but if it must be on the same channel the odds if it actually coming in handy arent great

[02:14:19]

Jester05:

Chicago, it seems like it picks up many channels that don't actually work when I try to view them tho

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[02:15:13]

Jester05:

I just need to set something up w/ my STB

[02:15:33]

Jester05:

i really wish I could just find a cable card tuner that'd work under linux

[02:16:11]

[R]:

never gonna happen

[02:16:27]

[R]:

wish in one hand...

[02:16:35]

Jester05:

yeah I know..

[02:16:36]

Jester05:

:-\

[02:16:47]

wagnerrp:

[R]: cablecards work just fine in linux

[02:16:55]

[R]:

?

[02:16:57]

wagnerrp:

take the TiVO S3 as an example

[02:16:58]

Jester05:

wagnerrp, whats this?

[02:17:00]

Chicago:

The hvr1600 has been working too

[02:17:07]

[R]:

wagnerrp: lol

[02:17:26]

wagnerrp:

cablecard will never function on any open source platform

[02:17:47]

wagnerrp:

and absolutely not one where the user has free access to actually insert their own code

[02:17:47]

Jester05:

whats keeping someone from writing their own driver for the device tho?

[02:18:03]

Chicago:

Jester05, don't ask

[02:18:08]

[R]:

Jester05: the fact that everyhting is encrypted and there is no spec?

[02:18:35]

Jester05:

well I mean aren't their tuners that work with a cable card under windows currently

[02:18:43]

[R]:

and?

[02:18:47]

Jester05:

ATI has big contraption

[02:18:53]

[R]:

theres lots of hardware that works in windows that doesnt work in linux

[02:19:05]

Jester05:

due to driver support

[02:19:21]

wagnerrp:

Jester05: think of it this way... theres a reason the SlySoft guys are hiding out in Antigua

[02:19:26]

wagnerrp:

and its got nothing to do with the beaches

[02:19:43]

Jester05:

haha

[02:19:43]

[R]:

lol

[02:20:25]

Jester05:

alright well since we're talking about RRRR Matey stuff..

[02:20:50]

wagnerrp:

were not talking about piracy at all

[02:21:04]

Jester05:

no but along those lines lol

[02:21:28]

bonelifer:

that's bad thinking DMCA rule breaking != Pirating

[02:21:37]

Jester05:

it would be interesting to try to decrypt OTA sat

[02:21:45]

[R]:

OTA sat isn't encrypted

[02:21:47]

[R]:

thats why its called OTA

[02:21:55]

wagnerrp:

all sat is OTA

[02:22:01]

wagnerrp:

youre thinking of FTA

[02:22:06]

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[02:22:07]

Jester05:

correct..

[02:22:13]

[R]:

i was

[02:22:21]

Jester05:

I mean I want to do FTA too

[02:22:21]

[R]:

Jester05: have fun breaking the law!

[02:22:23]

bonelifer:

There are some Encrypted stuff, but that's going from the main network to the local cable company.

[02:22:25]

Jester05:

but ORTA could be done lol

[02:22:56]

Jester05:

whats the test decryption thing myth has for DVB now?

[02:23:19]

[R]:

it tries to guess if its encrypted

[02:23:21]

wagnerrp:

Jester05: breaking through cable and satellite encryption is considered a breach of ToS for those respective services, not something mythtv or this channel will take part in

[02:23:22]

[R]:

and skip it if it is

[02:23:51]

Jester05:

wagnerrp, I'm just saying theoretically..

[02:24:33]

Jester05:

I mean you'd have to know how the encryption is written to do so and I'm sure they change the encryption patterns all the time so it'd realistically be next to impossible to do

[02:24:35]

wagnerrp:

theoretically or not, there are tools right now that will do it, and they are considered off limit topics in this channel

[02:25:31]

Jester05:

wagnerrp, are there actually ways to do it that the providers can't get around on a regular basis tho? I thought there was essentially no way around it at this point

[02:25:52]

wagnerrp:

i dont really know anything about them

[02:25:58]

Jester05:

ohhh

[02:26:12]

wagnerrp:

i know what theyre called, and thats about it

[02:26:13]

Jester05:

one of my profs for a DSP class talked about it a lot

[02:26:14]

bonelifer:

some mode +b Jest

[02:26:25]

bonelifer:

:)

[02:26:55]

Jester05:

I just think its an interesting thing to discuss

[02:27:07]

bonelifer:

In the right place, which this isn't

[02:27:15]

Jester05:

Engineers are odd people I know

[02:27:23]

[R]:

choo choo

[02:27:34]

[R]:

i need to wear one of them hats one day to work

[02:27:36]

[R]:

as a joke

[02:27:43]

bonelifer:

Orange Blossom Special.

[02:27:50]

Jester05:

lol

[02:27:53]

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[02:27:53]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v stoffel

[02:28:20]

Jester05:

anyone in here do any OTA sat tuning?

[02:28:36]

Jester05:

I've considered giving it a try but dont know if its worth the investment

[02:28:49]

[R]:

lyngsat.com will let you know whats availble

[02:28:53]

[R]:

theres not much

[02:29:15]

Jester05:

thats what I was afraid of

[02:29:41]

[R]:

if it was decdnt, tons of peopel would be doing it

[02:29:44]

Jester05:

i'd seen before there were a considerable number of non-english however I am monolingual lol

[02:30:08]

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[02:30:12]

Jester05:

I'm knew to myth.. I dont know what all these mythsters are doing now a day lol

[02:30:58]

Jester05:

I COULD GET ABC NEWS.. totally worth the $200–300 investment lol

[02:31:53]

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[02:32:05]

Jester05:

FTA would be interesting simply to stay connected with the world on a more social level

[02:32:19]

Jester05:

I mean world news helps but its still not seeing what the every day person sees

[02:32:55]

Jester05:

not that american tv is necessarily representative of how americans live their lives lol

[02:34:27]

Jester05:

[R], discovery HD showcase is on there but I thought you'd have to pay for content like that.. is it really FTA?

[02:34:42]

[R]:

where?

[02:34:51]

Jester05:

http://www.lyngsat.com/freetv/United-States.html

[02:35:07]

Jester05:

look at how many channels are on there.. thats actually kind of impressive

[02:35:21]

[R]:

a) the green means its encrypted

[02:35:24]

[R]:

b) it says south korea

[02:35:24]

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[02:35:41]

Jester05:

ahhh

[02:35:55]

Jester05:

if its encrypted its not F freakin TA

[02:35:55]

Jester05:

lol

[02:36:02]

[R]:

who says everything on there is FTA?

[02:36:09]

[R]:

oh it says free tv

[02:36:10]

[R]:

hrm

[02:36:15]

Jester05:

yea..

[02:36:16]

[R]:

thats what the colors are for

[02:36:28]

Jester05:

hmm

[02:36:43]

Jester05:

still discovery world wouldn't be hateful

[02:37:07]

Jester05:

where does it say the color thing?

[02:37:27]

[R]:

your not gonna be picking up 10E inb the US

[02:37:30]

[R]:

click on the satellite its on

[02:37:42]

RyeBrye:

Wait... Yahweh Prophetic TV is encrypted?

[02:37:47]

[R]:

lol

[02:37:48]

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[02:37:48]

RyeBrye:

that stinks!

[02:37:52]

Jester05:

I think the color thing is just to group the sats

[02:37:56]

Jester05:

or not.. hmm

[02:38:17]

** bonelifer wonders if this is a bot.... **

[02:38:25]

[R]:

some are right on that page

[02:38:27]

[R]:

and some are wrong

[02:38:31]

[R]:

but when you click on the actual satellite

[02:38:33]

[R]:

it shows you what it really is

[02:38:46]

Jester05:

yeah

[02:38:55]

Jester05:

I hate the US lol

[02:39:01]

[R]:

galaxy 19 is all FTA

[02:39:05]

[R]:

but its all crap

[02:39:09]

Jester05:

yeah

[02:39:39]

Jester05:

amc ..

[02:39:59]

Jester05:

oh yes, Fox News lol jk

[02:40:02]

RyeBrye:

Hm. I just need a DVB card and a sat to get all the FTA sat stuff?

[02:40:16]

Jester05:

yes RyeBrye .. could be good for your kids

[02:40:16]

RyeBrye:

Does schedulesdirect have guide data for the FTA sat stuff?

[02:40:28]

Jester05:

they could pick up another lang maybe..

[02:41:05]

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[02:41:18]

[R]:

RyeBrye: you also need to pick a satellite that is visible to you

[02:41:26]

Jester05:

yeah

[02:41:27]

[R]:

and you need to get a dish for the type of frequncies its using

[02:41:35]

[R]:

you can pick up Ku with a small dishnetwork/dtv dish

[02:41:36]

[R]:

but for C band

[02:41:40]

Jester05:

c band vs ku

[02:41:42]

[R]:

you need one of them big dishes

[02:41:51]

RyeBrye:

Hmm... my wife might not like that :)

[02:42:16]

Jester05:

[R], do you need that large of a dish for c.. I thought i'd heard of someone doing it with a 3–4' dish

[02:42:23]

Jester05:

which isn't toooo large :-\

[02:42:56]

[R]:

it depends on where you are in relation to the satellite

[02:43:19]

bonelifer:

It wouldn't be good here. No one would complain, but I know from experience Lightening would like it. My grandparents had a HAM tower here. Lightening always getting the TV or fridge.

[02:43:48]

Jester05:

bonelifer, if you ground it properly it shouldn't

[02:44:01]

Jester05:

problem is most grounders are undersized and or not driven deep enough

[02:44:03]

bonelifer:

We got rid of it after my grandmother died and my parents moved in. No more losing TV's or fridges.

[02:44:21]

bonelifer:

It was well grounded. didn't help.

[02:44:35]

Jester05:

bonelifer, then it wasnt grounded properly

[02:44:45]

RyeBrye:

if you don't hit magma you aren't deep enough

[02:44:54]

RyeBrye:

;)

[02:45:02]

Jester05:

if its grounded per NEC it should be able to take a direct hit and send it all straight to GND

[02:45:11]

Jester05:

lol

[02:45:21]

Jester05:

RyeBrye, I think hitting the water table would help more ;)

[02:45:42]

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[02:45:53]

Jester05:

[R] got tired of us :(

[02:46:02]

Jester05:

he didnt even say good bye :(

[02:46:13]

RyeBrye:

speaking of that... I'm off to bed

[02:46:29]

Jester05:

alright RyeBrye but real quick..

[02:46:43]

Jester05:

do you have a cable box or are u just tuning unencrypted digital?

[02:46:55]

RyeBrye:

tuning OTA hd

[02:47:04]

Jester05:

ohh

[02:47:09]

Jester05:

well didnt u say u had cable too?

[02:47:13]

RyeBrye:

I have cable yeah

[02:47:17]

RyeBrye:

I use analog tuners with it

[02:47:26]

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[02:47:33]

RyeBrye:

for kids shows and stuff. most of the stuff I watch / care about being in HD is on network TV

[02:47:40]

Jester05:

well u should be able to tune the same ota digital over your cable as u can get ota

[02:48:18]

Jester05:

cable companies must provide any broadcast thats OTA

[02:48:28]

Jester05:

at least thats what my prof used to claim

[02:48:55]

Jester05:

what do you do to be able to tune your network tv in HD then?

[02:49:33]

Jester05:

currently I have a digital to analog box thats not being used since I hooked myth up.. I think I'm going to hook it up to my tuner and just try to IR blast it..

[02:49:54]

RyeBrye:

HD homerun

[02:49:59]

Jester05:

?

[02:50:13]

wagnerrp:

Jester05: not any, just those listed as 'must carry'

[02:50:20]

RyeBrye:

http://www.silicondust.com/products/hdhomerun_home_atsc

[02:50:26]

Jester05:

you use that to tune your digital cable

[02:50:29]

Jester05:

?

[02:50:35]

Jester05:

or your OTA digital?

[02:50:38]

RyeBrye:

No, I just have analog cable

[02:50:42]

RyeBrye:

I use it for ATSC

[02:50:44]

Jester05:

ohh

[02:50:49]

RyeBrye:

I can get QAM, but the signal OTA is better

[02:51:01]

RyeBrye:

more reliable at least

[02:51:05]

Jester05:

well still even w/ analog cable I've picked up digital cable.. I have TWC tho

[02:51:15]

Jester05:

ohh

[02:51:23]

Jester05:

I get what you're saying..

[02:51:25]

RyeBrye:

my local cable company likes to randomly move the QAM channels around

[02:51:45]

RyeBrye:

so one day NBC is on 103–5 and then a few weeks later it's on 5–1 and then it's back to 103–2 later... which doesn't play well with myth

[02:51:50]

Jester05:

yeah true.. maybe I should set one of my digital tuners up for OTA

[02:52:06]

RyeBrye:

antennaweb.org should let you see what you can get OTA easily

[02:52:08]

Jester05:

yes I agree there

[02:52:24]

Jester05:

alright.. it'd be nice to get all of the Think programs

[02:52:54]

wagnerrp:

arent those usually carried by PBS?

[02:53:46]

Jester05:

well I get like 10 think channels

[02:53:54]

Jester05:

so not to the same frequency

[02:54:30]

Jester05:

I used that site but it doesnt even talk about channel 16

[02:54:41]

Jester05:

i get prob 8–10 subs under channel 16

[02:56:14]

Jester05:

if I come across another sat dish at an auction i'm going to buy it lol

[02:56:24]

Jester05:

just to try to mess with this whole FTA stuff

[02:57:10]

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[02:57:58]

Jester05:

wagnerrp, what that digital media port called

[02:58:06]

Jester05:

I think it may just be known as media port..

[02:58:55]

Jester05:

at any rate.. I think it can do HDMI and I know there are recording cards that have that port so you could essentially record HDMI out of your cable box

[03:10:29]

wagnerrp:

digital media port?

[03:10:53]

wagnerrp:

you cannot record HDMI

[03:11:30]

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Speedy2:

www.search2.net

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[05:57:58]

oobe:

if you can get 1080p out of your hardware do you not need to use deinterlacers

[06:04:06]

justinh:

course you do if the stuff you're playing is interlaced

[06:15:05]

oobe:

lol i wasnt thinking

[06:15:15]

justinh:

heh seems there are only about 10 people on the whole of the internet who've complained about flash video playback tearing

[06:15:30]

oobe:

it used to happen to me

[06:15:43]

oobe:

it was cause of compiz fusion though

[06:15:47]

oobe:

i just stopped using it

[06:15:48]

justinh:

but at least one guy is on the ball. he's made a couple of flash objects to test for it

[06:16:08]

justinh:

I get tearing on my windows laptop all the time. it really bugs me

[06:16:41]

justinh:

at first it was all video playback but tweaking the video device settings fixed that. now it's only flash

[06:17:02]

justinh:

wouldn't mind so much if there was some other way of playing flash videos embedded in webpages. Easily

[06:18:58]

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[06:25:40]

justinh:

jeebus frickin hell.. load average: 15.32, 14.12, 12.37

[06:25:42]

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[06:28:39]

oobe:

if you have desktop effects enabled try disableing them

[06:31:04]

justinh:

I don't. it's windows

[06:33:04]

justinh:

but fwiw flash video doesn't tear in linux on the same hardware. not that I ever enabled desktop effects

[06:33:18]

justinh:

but since windows is what I use....

[06:34:04]

justinh:

not that I'd ever expect to run mythfrontend on windows though... could imagine making windows netboot is a PITA :-)

[06:35:21]

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[06:41:02]

justinh:

a bit OT.. if you upgrade your system RAM is it also a good idea to increase the swap file size & if so.. is it quite straightforward to do that?

[06:41:55]

justinh:

the swap partition is usually a fixed size so I'm guessing some rejiggling of partitions would be needed

[06:42:19]

oobe:

i dont bother

[06:42:27]

oobe:

it hasnt harmed me

[06:42:44]

oobe:

but the old rule of thumb was to have 2x the size of ram

[06:43:09]

oobe:

its less relevant now cause systems dont swap as much with such high memory sizes

[06:43:34]

oobe:

these days a 2gb ram systems can suspend to ram without swap

[06:44:38]

justinh:

the backend I thought was giving up the ghost a while back has been going fine since I cleaned the ram contacts, steady as a rock for over 100 days..so I'm thinking I'll give it another lease of life with another gig of ram or so. it's only got 512 now

[06:44:50]

oobe:

also if you want to add more swap but dont want to repartition you can create a swap file instead

[06:45:03]

justinh:

not at a point where I can see myself upgrading myth from 0.21 yet

[06:46:12]

justinh:

been funny, since analogue was switched off here & the DTV muxes were jiggled around with, mythbackend hasn't fallen over at all

[06:47:41]

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[06:50:06]

oobe:

do you know much about wifi justinh

[06:50:20]

justinh:

only enough to have got my own working at home

[06:51:03]

justinh:

I do know it can't be relied on for reliable SDTV playback even

[06:51:22]

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[06:51:24]

justinh:

in linux the wireless on my laptop sucks, even in the same room as the access point

[06:51:27]

oobe:

i just want to know if connecting to wifi card to seperate machine halfs the throuput

[06:51:41]

oobe:

i think it does but have trouble phrasing it in google to confirm

[06:51:43]

justinh:

huh?

[06:51:56]

oobe:

yea see no one can understand my question

[06:52:13]

justinh:

what do you mean exactly?

[06:52:16]

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[06:52:34]

justinh:

are you worried that having more machines on an access point will affect throughput?

[06:52:35]

oobe:

when you connect a wifi card to a wifi router and a pc to the wifi router via cable

[06:52:37]

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[06:52:51]

oobe:

you can achieve max transfer speeds

[06:53:30]

oobe:

but 2 pcs connected to the wifi router both using wifi cards it halfs the throughput

[06:53:31]

justinh:

depends very much on all the hardware involved

[06:53:47]

oobe:

this is standard but i am looking for more details

[06:53:57]

justinh:

some wifi stuff will slow down to the speed of the slowest device accessing it

[06:54:07]

justinh:

I dunno the whole ins & outs of it

[06:54:09]

oobe:

no all would be compatable

[06:54:21]

oobe:

all would be using wireless-n

[06:54:28]

justinh:

shouldn't be an issue then

[06:54:42]

justinh:

but if all devices are *using* the network obviously it'll affect throughput

[06:55:05]

oobe:

yea

[06:55:07]

justinh:

if they're just *connected* to the network (i.e. present on the network) that alone won't make much traffic

[06:55:23]

oobe:

it does half it

[06:55:31]

oobe:

but i think i can get away with that

[06:55:31]

justinh:

wouldn't have thought so

[06:55:40]

oobe:

its strange

[06:55:50]

oobe:

but i cant phrase it correctly to find an example

[06:56:05]

justinh:

if anything, two network devices vying for bandwidth on the same access point would do worse than halve it

[06:57:34]

justinh:

but I'd have thought that if you had say two laptops connected to a router wirelessly, both would have whatever access speed the hardware allows

[06:58:03]

justinh:

and if you connected a machine up to the network with a wired connection that wouldn't affect wireless anyway

[06:59:12]

justinh:

like when my laptop is connected to the wireless network at home the connection speed isn't halved when my wife's laptop joins the network

[06:59:56]

justinh:

not as far as I know anyway

[07:02:37]

oobe:

no its not halfed when you both connect

[07:02:49]

oobe:

its halfed if you try to upload files to her

[07:02:56]

oobe:

*i think

[07:03:06]

justinh:

who cares? wireless is shite anyway

[07:03:08]

oobe:

but i just asked in madwifi and someone said i shouuld be ok

[07:03:29]

justinh:

it's *convenient* and nothing else

[07:03:39]

justinh:

you want speed, get wired. end of story

[07:04:05]

justinh:

I mean you want *guaranteed* *quantifiable* speed, get wired

[07:04:16]

justinh:

oops. add *reliable* to that mix

[07:04:41]

clever:

its only reliable until you have a slight power bump and your linksys switch goes tits up

[07:04:50]

oobe:

lol

[07:05:00]

oobe:

im thinking about getting an ups too

[07:05:14]

justinh:

I get maybe 64KB/sec over wireless on my laptop running linux

[07:05:19]

clever:

i have a UPS on both the master switch+modem+router and a 2nd on the main servers

[07:05:20]

justinh:

it really stinks

[07:05:33]

justinh:

good enough for web browsing but literally nothing else

[07:05:34]

clever:

i got 300kb/sec even on 802.11b

[07:05:58]

justinh:

and that's when it works

[07:06:24]

mzb:

subtract encryption/etc from what you expect to get

[07:06:31]

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[07:06:34]

clever:

yeah, the driver for that card began randomly crapping out after an upgrade

[07:06:39]

justinh:

yeah and that

[07:07:07]

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[07:07:52]

mzb:

and then other interference like bluetooth/microwaves (assuming b/g and/or driver+card ability to be "bluetooth friendly")

[07:08:15]

justinh:

I dunno why wireless sucks so much on my laptop in linux.. maybe it's a config thing. but from what I've experienced it's a black art just making it work at all

[07:08:20]

oobe:

justinh, this is the speeds i get on wireless-n

[07:08:21]

oobe:

[ ID] Interval Transfer Bandwidth

[07:08:22]

oobe:

[ 4] 0.0–10.1 sec 94.8 MBytes 79.0 Mbits/sec

[07:08:40]

mzb:

wind direction and a red tie are rumoured to help ;)

[07:08:41]

clever:

mzb: for several months, i had my wifi router sitting directly under the microwave

[07:08:49]

clever:

mzb: never had any problems, even when cookin

[07:09:01]

justinh:

hell even the signal strength is weaker in linux

[07:09:03]

justinh:

:-\

[07:09:05]

mzb:

bandwidth wasn't smelly?

[07:09:16]

clever:

never noticed any problems with it

[07:09:20]

mzb:

:)

[07:09:47]

justinh:

in the same room as the AP, only two devices on the wireless network – the AP & my laptop

[07:09:52]

mzb:

clever, remember some of the silly ideas we were talking about a couple of months ago?

[07:10:03]

justinh:

peaks about 100KB/sec. absolutely shite

[07:10:40]

mzb:

I came up with a new one ... taken me weeks to build, and it's just arrived home == now painted black (heat proof paint!)

[07:11:24]

clever:

mzb: dont remember them

[07:11:51]

mzb:

you were talking about strain guages and various other things (re: Free Day)

[07:12:09]

mzb:

so I came up with an interesting one just for fun

[07:12:39]

mzb:

how to control hot stuff with an air valve ... kinda

[07:12:41]

mzb:

http://www.users.on.net/~marcusbrutus/Smoker/BeEf1e_BBQ/

[07:13:21]

mzb:

latest pics yet to be uploaded (only arrived back a couple of hours ago, and taking pictures of a large black object in the dark didn't sound like a good idea;)

[07:13:41]

clever:

ah

[07:13:58]

mzb:

I've already done "manual" steaks and chooks in it ... works really well

[07:14:21]

mzb:

but I reckon a microcontroller+servo will make a huge difference

[07:14:34]

oobe:

justinh, there are plenty of wifi cards that are crap in general most of the broadcom chips have crap drivers in linux and in windows

[07:14:39]

mzb:

should be ready for a real test by the weekend:)

[07:15:13]

clever:

oobe: ive managed to get my bcm 43xx card working quite nicely

[07:15:16]

mzb:

ps: made out of scrap steel, a 44 gallon drum, and parts of a shopping trolley !

[07:15:25]

clever:

it took alot of b*tching with firmware, but once i got the right files, it worked great

[07:15:26]

oobe:

clever, nice

[07:15:37]

oobe:

thats not always the case though

[07:15:40]

clever:

it would tell me to dl version xyz, i do, and then it tells me the exact same thing:P

[07:17:03]

mzb:

anyway, thought you might be interested... come around for a medium-rare steak sometime (takes ~4hrs to cook;))

[07:17:28]

clever:

i'll have a look at it

[07:17:34]

mzb:

:)

[07:18:04]

mzb:

I'll probably need to write an article on it, so I'm taking heaps of pics as I go

[07:18:32]

mzb:

I'll keep it updated

[07:19:18]

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[07:19:20]

mzb:

black + chrome + brushed aluminium ... heheh

[07:19:58]

mzb:

and yes, the intention is to have mythtv popups like "Chicken ready" ;))

[07:20:12]

clever:

lol :D

[07:20:24]

** mzb wonders if a naked chicken walking across the screen is possible ;) **

[07:21:42]

mzb:

it's not too much of a stretch to be able to automatically send sms messages to anyone on the guest list if they're mobile phone (bluetooth) is not detected in the house (say) 20 minutes before the microcontroller determines that the meat will be cooked

[07:21:52]

mzb:

s/their

[07:22:16]

clever:

yeah

[07:22:19]

mzb:

but that'd probably be showing off :)

[07:22:21]

mzb:

hehe

[07:22:56]

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[07:23:41]

clever:

lol, it fits!

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[09:32:18]

drmacro:

hi, started by reading a bunch of the info on the web to decide what hardware to get to support Myth, I think I'm more confused,

[09:33:11]

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[09:33:42]

drmacro:

If I get a box that has an hdmi out and my tv has hdmi, and my cable box has firewire out what else am likely to need?

[09:34:49]

drmacro:

If I put a mouse on the box can it use the tv as the display via the hdmi?

[09:35:51]

clever:

when using hdmi between the pc&tv, its basicaly just a giant monitor

[09:35:58]

clever:

you can still use it as a normal computer if you want

[09:36:34]

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[09:37:53]

drmacro:

clever: so, assuming my cable provider allows the firewire to get the video, then myth would handle the dvr-ing of cable streams and the playing of content as well?

[09:38:20]

clever:

if you have enough CPU power, yes

[09:39:10]

drmacro:

clever: and how is myth with intel graphics chipsets?

[09:41:07]

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[09:41:11]

clever:

if you can play video under linux, it will work

[09:42:45]

drmacro:

clever: so it's the OS support for video that's the issue?

[09:43:10]

clever:

yeah, and pretty much anything supports XV

[09:43:29]

drmacro:

clever: how about streaming Netflicks under mythbuntu?

[09:43:50]

clever:

probly wont have any problems

[09:44:22]

drmacro:

clever: cool, thanks for the input!

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[10:20:36]

Zdeno:

hello

[10:20:46]

Zdeno:

can any1 help me with mythweb configuration?

[10:21:48]

Zdeno:

ill try to use imdb configure imdb search but without success

[10:22:13]

Zdeno:

ehm sry.. once again.. ill try to use imdb search ...

[10:23:45]

Zdeno:

i tried use google for values web_video_imdb_type and web_video_imdb_path but i found nothing.. only solution for old version 0.21

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[10:37:21]

calebjohnson:

Q: Hi, do you need a tv tuner card to use mythtv? or can you connect to remote backends?

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[10:43:23]

calebjohnson:

hey anyone around? lol

[10:43:31]

Zdeno:

calebjohnson think im here :>

[10:43:49]

calebjohnson:

hehe yo, i've just got a quick question about mythtv

[10:43:50]

Zdeno:

calebjohnson no u dont need tv tuner card.. im using playlist for iptv

[10:43:59]

calebjohnson:

does it require a tv tuner card or can you connect to remote backends?

[10:44:06]

calebjohnson:

oh ok cool

[10:44:07]

calebjohnson:

thanks :)

[10:44:25]

Zdeno:

welcome :) cant help you more coz im at work now

[10:44:32]

calebjohnson:

no worries

[10:44:41]

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[10:45:16]

Zdeno:

you can set up your tunner in backend.. ofc you can have mythbackend on another pc

[10:45:41]

Quantum7:

On the Program Guide, is there any way to put the day/date of the current time on the page? So as you scroll right you know what day you're on?

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[10:51:36]

Quantum7:

Anyone know who the devs are for mythcommflag? Tried contacting Chris to no avail. Mythcommflag doesn't work on certail h264 streams.

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[11:04:28]

Zdeno:

Does anybody know if the imdb script downloading movie cover too?

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NetWalk:

hi there !

[11:55:26]

jamesd2:

hi

[11:56:22]

NetWalk:

i'm trying to made my own mythtv box

[11:56:26]

NetWalk:

i got some questions

[11:56:37]

dyustin:

hi, i have a question about the s-video output of the intel 915 chipset ... i connected it with my TV and i get a picture when i do the right margins with xrandr everything frame wise is right but the picture seems to have lines missing or crunched and diagonals and corners have strong steps .. when i see the same channel (dvb-t) on the dedicatet dvb-t box its smooth also on the tft of the laptop its good ... what can be wr

[11:57:28]

dyustin:

i tried all 3 resolution from 640x480 to 1024x768

[11:58:40]

dyustin:

its running in NTSC and the TV can handle the signal ( its coloured )

[11:58:58]

NetWalk:

i succesfully download and install ubuntu 9.10, also apply mythtvbuntu to that distro. now i wan to know wich is better to have has card for watching TV, i'm in Montreal with Bell Expressvu Satellite, is there any possibiliites ? good advice are welcome!

[12:03:49]

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[12:08:46]

NetWalk:

anyone ?

[12:09:38]

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[12:11:32]

jamesd2:

sorry no clue.. i live in the u.s.a. perhaps later they will be a candanian or two.. they are all busy chowing down on poutine at the moment... or helping haul snow for the olympics

[12:13:30]

NetWalk:

mouhahhaa

[12:13:38]

NetWalk:

ok, i will wait then, no stress

[12:13:40]

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[12:13:40]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v stuartm

[12:13:40]

NetWalk:

thank's!

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[12:16:41]

hackman:

is the GT 220 the best card for bang/buck?

[12:18:41]

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[12:18:42]

stuartm:

Ammonium Nitrate will give you a much bigger bang

[12:20:09]

stuartm:

there's a lot of fud in that 'modeline database' in the wiki :/

[12:20:41]

NetWalk:

even for canadian providers like Videtron or Bell Expressvu ?

[12:21:13]

stuartm:

one guy claiming he needs a custom modeline to get the same picture quality with ubuntu as he does in XP ... which is a little odd since XP will just be using the EDID info

[12:24:10]

dyustin:

how to do modelines in xrandr ?

[12:24:25]

dyustin:

i thought thats only in xorg.conf

[12:24:28]

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[12:24:50]

dyustin:

do u have the link or can point me to the forum where u read this ?

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[12:38:03]

wagnerrp:

Zdeno: the IMDB script no longer functions properly or exists

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[12:46:46]

elmojo:

sphery: I decided to try and speed up the mythfilldatabase failure by running in a while loop and it looks hung

[12:47:01]

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elmojo:

looks like it finishes and never exits

[12:48:19]

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[12:49:41]

wagnerrp:

sphery: do you remember what the purpose of adding the security pin to the UPNP stuff was?

[12:51:00]

wagnerrp:

i mean youve already got the address and port of the backend status page

[12:51:38]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: provide at least some measure of security for those running backends on shared networks, e.g. Universities, if the upnp discovery makes it easy to discover the address of those machines it was figured prudent to add a measure to prevent anyone from connecting

[12:52:22]

stuartm:

the status page doesn't let you delete/modify recordings etc, it's read only

[12:52:41]

wagnerrp:

stuartm: it does absolutely nothing for security

[12:52:58]

wagnerrp:

you have the backend hostname and port

[12:53:08]

wagnerrp:

you can pull the security pin straight off the GetSetting page

[12:53:55]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: the xml methods were implemented without requiring a pin true, but that's a failing of that component

[12:56:12]

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[12:57:22]

PeaceKeeper:

Doh, my vob files have the wrong time on them (Example: Shows 1 5minutes not 1 hour).

[12:57:23]

stuartm:

IMHO the pin isn't secure enough anyway, but I'd not remove it, just replace it with a greater level of security – the argument that because it's a local network application no real security is required isn't going to hold forever

[12:57:34]

elmojo:

sphery: here is the backtrace -> http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/1805864

[12:57:38]

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[12:58:07]

elmojo:

sphery: I'll leave gdb attached in case you want me to dump something else for the process

[12:58:13]

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[12:58:24]

wagnerrp:

stuartm: id agree that the whole thing (backend and frontend interfaces) could use a security overhaul

[12:58:26]

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[12:58:32]

wagnerrp:

i just found it amusing a couple minutes ago

[12:58:40]

wagnerrp:

when i realized you could bypass the pin that easily

[12:58:42]

stuartm:

we're pretty lucky that so far mythtv has avoided any real scrutiny by the security community, because I can think of several examples where we let ourselves down

[13:02:19]

wagnerrp:

i dont know about that

[13:02:41]

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[13:02:49]

PeaceKeeper:

Does mythcommflag --video file length issues in mythvideo?

[13:02:53]

wagnerrp:

the 'security community' is more about finding unintended ways to access mythtv

[13:03:06]

wagnerrp:

mythtv is completely open through intent

[13:04:55]

sid3windr:

:)

[13:05:04]

sid3windr:

one day I'll find time to write a myth protocol fuzzer

[13:05:13]

wagnerrp:

fuzzer?

[13:05:20]

sid3windr:

while trying to write my own client I found a gazillion ways to crash the backend

[13:05:23]

sid3windr:

yea

[13:05:28]

sid3windr:

something that intentionally creates wrong input

[13:05:35]

sid3windr:

to catch bugs

[13:06:32]

wagnerrp:

ive seen a handful of those backend crashing bugs over the years, but they all get closed pretty quickly on trac

[13:06:44]

wagnerrp:

of course those are bugs discovered through normal behavior

[13:06:50]

wagnerrp:

not someone intentionally trying to break things

[13:06:53]

sid3windr:

:-)

[13:06:58]

stuartm:

no-one has really looked at how mythtv might be used, as any other local application might, to attack a system generally, whether it's to cause damage by deleting user/system files, retrieving system/user passwords, priviledge escalation etc

[13:07:01]

sid3windr:

back then I wasnt trying to break stuff

[13:07:06]

sid3windr:

was just trying to figure out the protocol

[13:07:16]

sid3windr:

but like, I passed the wrong tuner number to some request

[13:07:17]

sid3windr:

and boom =)

[13:07:40]

sid3windr:

which, is highly annoying that anyone on the network can do that, because there was no authentication on the control socket (dunno if there is now)

[13:07:59]

sid3windr:

still it's not that big of a risk, if you find someone connecting to your home network crashing your backend

[13:08:05]

sid3windr:

you kick their ass and hide them in a dumpster

[13:08:06]

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[13:08:09]

sid3windr:

and they won't do it again :D

[13:08:20]

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[13:08:30]

wagnerrp:

there is some patch running around somewhere that introduces security and encryption on the backend socket

[13:09:13]

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[13:09:16]

stuartm:

most of the time we assume that security isn't important in myth because we only consider the damage being limited to mythtv's database and recordings, but we provide several routes for remote users to execute external commands etc, all of which can be used to do damage outside of myth itself

[13:09:20]

Zdeno:

+wagnerrp: is there any chance how can i assing image to specific movie? without syncing?

[13:09:23]

wagnerrp:

http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/371690

[13:09:53]

wagnerrp:

Zdeno: a long time ago, IMDB made it known that using scrapers to pull data into applications was against their terms of service

[13:09:55]

sid3windr:

but.. but.. my recordings!

[13:10:11]

wagnerrp:

so themoviedb.org opened up, and mythtv switched over to using that instead

[13:10:40]

wagnerrp:

if youre still using 0.21, there are instructions on how to install that grabber over top of the old imdb grabber

[13:10:50]

wagnerrp:

if you are using something newer, you are already pulling off tmdb

[13:10:53]

sid3windr:

aha!

[13:10:53]

sid3windr:

:)

[13:11:11]

sid3windr:

interesting as I also still run .21

[13:11:23]

Zdeno:

+wagnerrp: so i cant manually assing any image to movie? where i can find script for sync with themoviedb?

[13:11:36]

wagnerrp:

Zdeno: what version are you running?

[13:11:44]

Zdeno:

+wagnerrp: 0.22

[13:11:49]

wagnerrp:

then just press 'w'

[13:11:54]

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[13:12:12]

wagnerrp:

if you want to edit the video manually, you can do that through the 'i' menu

[13:12:13]

stuartm:

you can manually assign images, Menu > Edit Metadata

[13:12:28]

Zdeno:

+wagnerrp: in frontend right? and over mythweb?

[13:12:41]

wagnerrp:

i dont know the state of mythweb off hand

[13:12:46]

sphery:

wagnerrp / stuartm : IIRC, the UPnP interface allows discovering the MySQL connection info (including username/password), so some felt that it was stupidly insecure to allow access to everyone since it could compromise not only MythTV, but also the MySQL server on which mythconverg is run (for those who stupi^H^H^H^H^Hchoose to run mythconverg on a mission-critical MySQL server).

[13:13:00]

sphery:

elmojo: thanks for the backtrace... Just starting to look at it (took forever to open)

[13:13:38]

Zdeno:

ok ok... ill try frontend then...

[13:13:43]

wagnerrp:

sphery: just found it amusing that the same xml server that uses the pin, will hand it out upon request

[13:14:07]

sphery:

don't you have to have the pin to get the pin?

[13:14:13]

wagnerrp:

nope

[13:14:23]

Zdeno:

and my 2nd question: how i can show subtitles or set up subtitles in external file when im using mythvideo? coz everytime when i press 't' there arent any sub

[13:14:38]

Zdeno:

base name of files are same

[13:14:40]

wagnerrp:

http://host:port/Myth/GetSetting?Key=Security . . . ostName=host

[13:14:53]

stuartm:

sphery: indeed, the autodiscovery sends out the mysql password to connecting machines

[13:15:12]

wagnerrp:

stuartm: no it doesnt, it only sends out the address of the XML server

[13:15:33]

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[13:15:50]

sphery:

elmojo: Was that a command-line run of mythfilldatabase? Was it a deadlock? It seems to be related to http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/7714 .

[13:16:01]

wagnerrp:

after which you pull the mysql credentials off of Myth/GetConnectionInfo?Pin=whatever

[13:16:10]

elmojo:

sphery: yes, it was run from the command-line

[13:16:29]

elmojo:

sphery: is that not what you were looking for?

[13:16:35]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: which is what I was saying

[13:16:54]

elmojo:

sphery: it's not a segfault

[13:16:59]

sphery:

wagnerrp: ah, heh, since it's a setting, you can get it... That should be fixed.

[13:16:59]

wagnerrp:

ah, i thought you mean 'autodiscover' as the actual upnp msearch

[13:17:15]

elmojo:

sphery: the process is still running but never exiting

[13:17:22]

stuartm:

and before the pin existed, GetConnectionInfo would return those details without any challenge

[13:18:09]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: I was refering to autodiscovery as the complete process, not just the initial multicast and response

[13:18:31]

sphery:

elmojo: that may be it... it may also mean that 7714 is no longer just a "harmless segfault on exit"--but that the same issue can cause a deadlock

[13:19:14]

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[13:19:45]

stuartm:

remind me, are there any xml methods which allow more than just retrieval of data? i.e. scheduling of recordings, deletion, changing/insertion of values in the settings table?

[13:19:59]

elmojo:

sphery: interesting... I would much prefer a segfault ;)

[13:20:01]

wagnerrp:

is svn down again?

[13:20:13]

wagnerrp:

stuartm: you can set settings, but thats the extent of write access

[13:20:14]

stuartm:

at the very least those should be protected by the pin, arguably retrieval methods should too

[13:20:43]

sphery:

wagnerrp: might be worth mentioning to CDev (perhaps in thread at http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/418085#418085 ), as he's basically rewriting the MythXML stuff, now.

[13:21:15]

sphery:

if nothing else, SecurityPin (SecurityPIN?) should be protected

[13:21:33]

wagnerrp:

ok, i was just going to put up a patch to protect SecurityPin for GetSetting and PutSetting

[13:21:40]

wagnerrp:

but i cant get onto svn

[13:21:56]

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[13:28:40]

wagnerrp:

it came up... just very slow to respond

[13:28:46]

stuartm:

just restarted apache on svn

[13:31:16]

Zdeno:

nobody else got problem with external subtitles? ^^

[13:31:32]

wagnerrp:

are they in srt format and file extension?

[13:32:18]

Zdeno:

aye

[13:33:33]

elmojo:

sphery: did you need anything else from the process?

[13:35:21]

Zdeno:

same base name, movie file is mkv or avi, file with subtitles got extensions .srt

[13:37:54]

Zdeno:

version of mythtv mythtv-0.22_p23069

[13:38:51]

wagnerrp:

text subtitles are one of the more unused parts of mythtv

[13:39:10]

wagnerrp:

considering the only way to get them is to OCR them from the source yourself

[13:39:34]

wagnerrp:

so youre not going to find a lot of users experienced in them to help diagnose something

[13:40:16]

Zdeno:

so the best way is put the subtitles to mkv file? or using external player like mplayer?

[13:40:59]

wagnerrp:

dont know, i dont use them

[13:43:56]

stuartm:

or don't transcode/strip the subtitles when transcoding

[13:44:03]

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[13:45:12]

stuartm:

but the strictly correct answer is to figure out why the srt file isn't working and perhaps submit a bug report, although 23069 is very old and you might try updating first

[13:45:40]

wagnerrp:

is that old as far as 0.22-fixes goes?

[13:45:47]

wagnerrp:

i havent seen many back ports recently

[13:46:02]

stuartm:

dunno, I think in trunk time :)

[13:47:14]

stuartm:

Zdeno: have you tried basename + ext + srt, vs basename + srt ?

[13:47:15]

wagnerrp:

from then and now, i see a fix to the bindings, a fix to mythvideo, a fix to mythmovies, and a bunch of stuff dealing with dvds

[13:47:44]

wagnerrp:

s/bindings/python bindings

[13:48:04]

Zdeno:

well problem is gentoo using old packages every time... i can use mythtv-0.23_alpha22857 but its hard masked...

[13:48:37]

Zdeno:

and dont want to use any user compilation version...

[13:48:37]

wagnerrp:

youre running gentoo and youre worried about hard masking and old packages?

[13:48:58]

Zdeno:

:>

[13:49:02]

wagnerrp:

there are no binaries, everything is user compiled

[13:49:54]

Zdeno:

i know but the one way is do own package... and download it from official portage tree

[13:50:06]

Zdeno:

so how faar is 0.23 version?

[13:50:25]

wagnerrp:

copy the existing package into a new folder

[13:50:29]

wagnerrp:

add that folder as an overlay

[13:50:30]

Zdeno:

or whats the best? download fixed 0.22 version from svn or other version? e.g. from trunk?

[13:50:38]

stuartm:

two/three weeks

[13:50:53]

wagnerrp:

rename the file to the current revision number

[13:50:56]

wagnerrp:

digest, and build

[13:51:51]

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[13:52:35]

wagnerrp:

anyone know if that MarcT guy is providing source packages for his ebuilds? or if everyone using his overlay just pulls off trac

[13:53:15]

Zdeno:

im easy to use any source... just tell me whats the best.. svn fixed version or any other source?

[13:54:08]

wagnerrp:

basically, theres little point to submitting a bug to 0.22-fixes, especially when trunk is in feature freeze, and due to be released in a few weeks

[13:54:48]

wagnerrp:

new bugs are generally reported and fixed against trunk, and back ported if necessary

[13:56:17]

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[14:01:19]

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[14:02:41]

Zdeno:

well ill try something with trunk version when ill go home.. thank you for help guys

[14:04:56]

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[14:07:57]

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[14:08:04]

TSM:

can i have multiple DVB cards in a MythTV setup and allow multiple users to access each stream live from diffrent computers

[14:10:15]

jamesd2:

TSM, usually its easier to just watch them as recorded programs so you can go backwards and forwards in the stream.. life stream doesn't help much if you can't see the beginning where a key element of the show happens

[14:11:11]

TSM:

i would like to do that too but i have a requirement to make live streams and also recorded streams

[14:11:30]

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[14:12:04]

TSM:

it would be lovley to have a constantly recording stream and when users connect then they get connected to the tail end of the stream file

[14:12:09]

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[14:12:25]

TSM:

problem would be recording from say 10 channels simul

[14:12:25]

jamesd2:

hmm requirement == either being very lucky, or paying money or writing the code to what you want...

[14:12:42]

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[14:13:01]

TSM:

i dont mind writing a web interface to access recorded progs which is what i was going to do, a cron to schedule the split on the hour etc and also live streams

[14:13:14]

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[14:13:52]

jamesd2:

TSM, the web interface gives you stream of recorded programs.. not of the live stream so you will have to write that module your self i would guess...

[14:14:28]

TSM:

its going to have to be a mash up

[14:14:49]

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[14:15:21]

** jamesd2 is not a mythtv developer and i'm not a guru either.. maybe it exists, maybe its impossible to do what your asking, i'm not sure... just a guess on my part **

[14:18:01]

sphery:

elmojo: nothing else. Thanks for the bt.

[14:21:50]

elmojo:

sphery: ok... just wanted to know since I'm logged in via a shell and it usually goes down at some point

[14:22:34]

elmojo:

sphery: I'm just going to add a cron job to kill mythfilldatabase at midnight every night... can you think of any issues with doing so?

[14:23:20]

sphery:

elmojo: nope, should be a good enough workaround

[14:23:46]

elmojo:

thanks

[14:23:49]

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[14:23:51]

sphery:

only issue is if mfdb had just started running (because of the grabber suggests running time thing)

[14:24:15]

elmojo:

yes.. was going to look to see if I've restricted it to a certain range or not

[14:24:58]

sphery:

might be best to just make a wrapper for mfdb that spawns the real mfdb in the background, then sleeps for a while, then kills

[14:25:07]

sphery:

just change mythfilldatabase command to the wrapper script

[14:34:42]

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[14:42:41]

bsdfox:

anyone got advice on this? been getting it from mythweb since I changed my backend machine. I've used mythweb for years so I'm pretty familiar with the setup/config but I can't figure this out. Warning: require(modules/_shared/tmpl/tmpl/header.php) [function.require]: failed to open stream: No such file or directory in /var/www/localhost/htdocs/mythweb/modules/_shared/tmpl/_errors/fatal.php on line 23

[14:43:34]

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[14:46:06]

xris:

bsdfox: does the file exist?

[14:46:23]

bsdfox:

nope

[14:46:27]

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[14:46:33]

bsdfox:

not in a clean svn checkout either

[14:46:35]

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[14:50:33]

xris:

bsdfox: trunk?

[14:51:16]

bsdfox:

URL: http://svn.mythtv.org/svn/branches/release-0-22-fixes

[14:52:11]

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[14:56:17]

xris:

hmm, there are nested tmpl directories in there

[14:56:24]

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[14:57:19]

xris:

looks like a bug

[14:57:42]

xris:

can you please file a bug about this? it's an issue inside of fatal.php.. make sure it gets assigned to me or kormoc

[14:57:56]

xris:

please also mention that it occurs in both 0.22 fixes and trunk.

[14:58:46]

bsdfox:

I don't seem to have nested tmpl directories

[14:59:51]

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[15:00:35]

bsdfox:

I don't have a header.php in tmpl either

[15:00:37]

kormoc:

it's because tmpl the define is not defined

[15:00:48]

xris:

ahh

[15:01:02]

xris:

bsdfox: nested in the URL, not the actual file structure

[15:01:47]

xris:

kormoc: gotcha.. so the error is happening too early in the execution to pick it up

[15:01:49]

xris:

interesting

[15:01:51]

kormoc:

Aye

[15:02:10]

bsdfox:

any workaround?

[15:02:13]

kormoc:

it's done via includes/skins.php, which is really early

[15:02:22]

kormoc:

bsdfox: fix the fatal?

[15:02:33]

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[15:03:18]

bsdfox:

kormoc: do I want header.php from tmpl/default ?

[15:03:55]

high-rez:

Is there a 0.24 feature roadmap available?

[15:04:07]

wagnerrp:

whats with all these people wanting multiple machines to access the same livetv stream....

[15:04:34]

kormoc:

bsdfox: ln -s modules/_shared/tmpl/default modules/_shared/tmpl/tmpl

[15:06:56]

bsdfox:

kormoc: Fatal error: Call to a member function query_col() on a non-object in /var/www/localhost/htdocs/mythweb/modules/backend_log/init.php on line 19

[15:06:56]

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[15:07:15]

kormoc:

so then the database isn't connecting correctly...

[15:08:06]

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[15:08:30]

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[15:08:36]

high-rez:

Or rather, to rephrase, do you guys think the crystal hd will be supported in 0.24? :)

[15:08:55]

wagnerrp:

that all depends

[15:09:20]

wagnerrp:

the current consensus is just to let the crystalhd get supported as a decoding engine upstream in ffmpeg

[15:09:32]

wagnerrp:

then its fairly trivial to add support in mythtv

[15:09:59]

high-rez:

That sounds pretty smart. So it'll just be one of jy's libav* syncs?

[15:10:15]

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[15:10:22]

bsdfox:

kormoc: mythweb.conf should be the only place I need to set that stuff right?

[15:10:38]

wagnerrp:

so if it exists in ffmpeg 6–8 months down the line when jan neg does another sync in prep for 0.24, theres a good chance mythtv will support it

[15:10:47]

kormoc:

bsdfox: yes

[15:15:16]

high-rez:

Generally speaking, functionally all it does is decode right? Overlays, color correction etc wouldn't be supported by it, correct?

[15:15:33]

wagnerrp:

correct

[15:15:50]

wagnerrp:

it would be a decoding engine, in place of ffmpeg currently

[15:15:59]

wagnerrp:

you still need to use Xv to handle the other tasks

[15:17:28]

high-rez:

Interesting. So it couple turn an appletv into a competent frontend. :D

[15:17:37]

wagnerrp:

no

[15:17:45]

wagnerrp:

the UI still runs painfully slowly on that system

[15:17:50]

high-rez:

Oh, really?

[15:17:51]

wagnerrp:

independent of decoding performance

[15:17:55]

high-rez:

Interesting.

[15:18:18]

high-rez:

I assume that's OSX performance – wheras I was thinking of using it with linux?

[15:19:02]

high-rez:

I'm not sure its form factor provides much over my ionitx in the m350 case anyways. Just thinking about my options as I expand my system.

[15:19:10]

iamlindoro:

high-rez: Janne is responsible for ffmpeg syncs, not JYA

[15:19:23]

iamlindoro:

credit where credit is due

[15:19:31]

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[15:19:37]

** wagnerrp mentioned that **

[15:19:43]

iamlindoro:

didn't see, sorry

[15:20:23]

kormoc:

anyone recall who is the upnp guy around these parts?

[15:20:32]

iamlindoro:

dblain

[15:20:35]

high-rez:

iamlindoro: Sorry, got confused. You're right.

[15:20:39]

iamlindoro:

greyfoxx occasionally tweaks it too

[15:20:43]

** kormoc nods **

[15:20:44]

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[15:20:47]

wagnerrp:

high-rez: iamlindoro is the one to ask about the UI on the ATV

[15:20:53]

iamlindoro:

suuuuucks

[15:20:56]

janneg:

high-rez: crystal hd will be almost certainly be supported in 0.24

[15:20:56]

kormoc:

So I'm getting uber excited bout drizzle and learned something new

[15:21:30]

janneg:

I'm going to write the decoder as soon as my card arrives

[15:21:50]

kormoc:

we can write a upnp auth plugin in c/c++/python/etc and have it as a auto-detected database service via upnp rather then having to do all the credential pass arounds.

[15:22:36]

high-rez:

janneg: Cool. Which card did you get ?

[15:23:56]

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[15:24:02]

high-rez:

I saw they have sold for < $35 on ebay which makes them quite attractive.

[15:24:33]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: i dont understand what that would do, drizzle just seems to be another database implementation

[15:25:47]

bsdfox:

kormoc: got it all fixed up (had a stray mythweb.conf that was being read after the one I was editing) thanks

[15:26:29]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: sorta... but think entirely plugin extendable, we could write a auth plugin that announces it's presence via upnp so the backend/frontends can find it, and when they connect to it we can bypass auth, just let them in. No more messing with grants, no fixing incorrect grants, no fixing incorrect mysql ip issues, it'd just work (tm)(r)

[15:26:41]

bsdfox:

one more question.. after swapping backends a few times mythtv thinks I've got tuners 5–7 on my old backend "Encoder 5 is remote on gameinwatch (currently not connected)." and "Encoder 8 is local on bowser and is not recording."

[15:26:58]

bsdfox:

any way for me to reset these to 1–3 and get rid of the remote tuner entries?

[15:27:13]

** kormoc eyes that question towards sphery **

[15:27:40]

xris:

bsdfox: can delete the remote tuner entries from the db, but renaming the new ones could get messy because there are quite a few tables that link back to them so you'd have to change the id numbers in multiple places.

[15:27:49]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: think about how the frontends upnp discover the backend. We can do the same with the database layer with drizzle now, less configuration, less user pain, etc

[15:27:55]

xris:

but to delete, I think you can just wipe the entries from the capturecard table.

[15:28:23]

kormoc:

would need to truncate to reset autoindex position

[15:28:41]

bsdfox:

xris: alright. I can live with them being numbered a little higher :)

[15:29:34]

wagnerrp:

so this would be a means of implementing the embedded sql server?

[15:29:45]

wagnerrp:

use drizzle to abstract sql?

[15:30:05]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: nah, you wouldn't need to embed it anymore, a lot of the same benefits, less work to get it correct

[15:30:26]

wagnerrp:

i mean drizzle would basically be acting as a proxy to the mysql server?

[15:30:46]

kormoc:

drizzle is a mysql server, just redone in a lot of fundamental ways

[15:31:03]

kormoc:

in this setup, drizzle would replace mysql

[15:31:09]

wagnerrp:

so it would be embedded drizzle, rather than embedded mysql

[15:31:16]

kormoc:

not embedded

[15:31:29]

kormoc:

just install drizzle, install the myth-upnp-drizzle-auth plugin, done

[15:34:02]

wagnerrp:

well one of the problems with UPNP is that a search must listen on the local address on port 1900

[15:34:23]

wagnerrp:

and right now, the backend, and this auth plugin would both want that port

[15:34:35]

wagnerrp:

as would any additional application that is looking to search for them on that machine

[15:34:55]

kormoc:

erm

[15:35:05]

kormoc:

multiple upnp apps do run on machines somehow...

[15:35:38]

wagnerrp:

do they?

[15:36:05]

wagnerrp:

none of the search tools ive found have worked if the backend is running on that machine

[15:36:24]

wagnerrp:

maybe im just doing something wrong

[15:36:26]

wagnerrp:

entirely possible

[15:36:46]

kormoc:

I'll research, but if so, that's a huge failure

[15:37:20]

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[15:37:28]

wagnerrp:

you can have multiple applications listening on the same multicast address and port

[15:37:38]

wagnerrp:

but search responses are send to the local address and port

[15:37:44]

kormoc:

huh

[15:37:57]

wagnerrp:

which i cant seem to get to work without sole access to that port

[15:38:53]

wagnerrp:

this is just my limited experience with it writing a search function for the python bindings

[15:39:17]

wagnerrp:

dblain would certainly know more about it

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[16:25:43]

sphery:

too late, but the answer to bsdfox's question: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/264034#264034

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[16:33:12]

deekjx:

anyone here using their MythTV Backend as a UPnP server for the PS3?

[16:33:29]

Hiisty:

i am

[16:34:52]

deekjx:

I have two questions that I have yet to find the answers to. 1) Does it transcode unsupported ps3 formats into something the ps3 does support? 2) I'm having trouble getting the UPnP to find my videos, video root is always empty

[16:35:30]

jamesd2:

what documents/howtos did you use to set this up?

[16:35:41]

deekjx:

In regards to the second question, I can get a Myth TV frontend to view my files, just no a UPnP client

[16:35:42]

kormoc:

1. no

[16:36:42]

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[16:37:10]

hansaplast:

Does anyone has experience with PAL-Teletext here?

[16:37:18]

deekjx:

let me get the links I've been using. http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/UPnP http://www.mythtv.org/docs/ http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MythVideo are the three man pages I've been using

[16:38:46]

hansaplast:

The window size for TT is to small

[16:47:32]

jamesd2:

deekjx, thanks

[16:51:40]

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[16:58:24]

hansaplast:

Does anyone has experience with PAL-Teletext here?

[16:58:52]

devinheitmueller:

hansaplast: sure, but do you have a more specific question?

[16:59:23]

hansaplast:

The window size for TT is to small. It doesn't fill the screen

[17:01:13]

hansaplast:

devinheitmueller: ye still there?

[17:01:24]

devinheitmueller:

Yeah.

[17:01:40]

devinheitmueller:

I cannot answer that question. I've only done work on the driver side of teletext support.

[17:01:50]

devinheitmueller:

Sounds like it might be an issue with font selection though.

[17:02:51]

hansaplast:

Which section of Mythtv settings is devoted to teletext fonts?

[17:02:59]

devinheitmueller:

I couldn't say.

[17:03:31]

deekjx:

hiisty where do you keep your files so that UPnP devices can see them? I copied a video into /var/lib/mythtv/videos and it has yet to show up on my PS3

[17:03:44]

hansaplast:

has this something to do with OSD fonts?

[17:05:43]

gbee:

hansaplast: yes

[17:05:51]

deekjx:

anyone else here use a UPnP device with MythTV?

[17:06:03]

gbee:

hansaplast: 0.22 or trunk?

[17:06:06]

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[17:06:29]

gbee:

there is a known issue with teletext subtitles in trunk, which reminds me, that should be a blocker for the release

[17:06:45]

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[17:06:57]

hansaplast:

0.22

[17:08:13]

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[17:10:11]

hansaplast:

gbee: why? Are there lots of changes regarding TT in trunc?

[17:10:44]

gbee:

no, just changes to the renderers

[17:11:24]

hansaplast:

forgive my ignorance. But what are renderers and in what relation do they stand to TT?

[17:12:14]

Hiisty:

deekjx: i have my videos in /home/hiisty/Videos

[17:12:45]

Hiisty:

and my videos shows in the frontend and also in my ps3

[17:13:11]

Hiisty:

deekjx: have u restarted mythbackend?

[17:14:14]

deekjx:

yes

[17:14:25]

deekjx:

my PS3 never sees the videos

[17:14:46]

deekjx:

I tried that directory also

[17:14:49]

hansaplast:

Hiisty: if you have correct settings you can do fine with a scan for changes (M-key)

[17:15:08]

hansaplast:

But make sure path settings are correct

[17:16:10]

Hiisty:

hansaplast: my upnp is working fine, it is deekjx who has the problem

[17:16:15]

hansaplast:

Hiisty: Sorry you are probably talking PS3 here, which is probably a frontend

[17:16:28]

hansaplast:

hehe oopzzie

[17:17:02]

deekjx:

its odd, my frontend can see it my PS3 can't let me go check again. I jsut did another scan

[17:17:12]

Hiisty:

hmm actualy it just client which uses upnp

[17:17:21]

hansaplast:

Maybe rights problem?

[17:17:51]

iamlindoro:

the frontend scan and the uPnP file list have nothing to do with one another

[17:18:06]

hansaplast:

Hmm./.. no experience there I'll keep quit ;-)

[17:18:09]

Hiisty:

hansaplast: but deekjx says that videos are ok in the frontend, and i think that upnp just shares them

[17:18:12]

hansaplast:

*quiet

[17:18:21]

iamlindoro:

The frontend scan only pertains to using MythVideo from the frontend. uPnP has its own file scanner on the backend which occurs by default every 15 minutes

[17:18:36]

iamlindoro:

if you are using Storage groups for video, upnp will not work

[17:18:49]

iamlindoro:

the upnp scanner scans the local video directory setting

[17:19:30]

hansaplast:

which user runs the upnp scanner. Still could be rights prob

[17:19:52]

gbee:

it's run by the backend, so whatever user you have the backend running under

[17:20:07]

hansaplast:

prob root. So guess not

[17:20:19]

hansaplast:

my 50c ;-)

[17:20:34]

deekjx:

hmm

[17:20:40]

gbee:

hope not :)

[17:21:01]

deekjx:

are you saying I need to leave the frontend up so that I can see them via the UPnP? I set my backend scan to 5 minutes

[17:21:04]

Hiisty:

deekjx: your ps3 can connect to the server?

[17:21:19]

deekjx:

yes, but it doesn't see any files

[17:21:23]

Hiisty:

no need for FE

[17:22:36]

iamlindoro:

no, I'm saying you need to configure the local video file setting to point at the appropriate directory, and if you are using storage groups for videos, then the uPnP scanner likely has no idea where to look

[17:22:50]

deekjx:

Hiisty: I go to Videos on the XMB on the PS3. I choose the MythTV Media Server. Then I chose Vidoes -> Videos_Root -> no files

[17:22:51]

iamlindoro:

so yes, you would use a frontend to set that value, but needn't leave it running

[17:23:38]

Hiisty:

deekjx: ps3 doesen't update videos automaticly so scan for servers again

[17:23:50]

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[17:23:51]

deekjx:

iamlindro: I hvae the default video folder set to /var/lib/mythtv/videos/

[17:24:01]

deekjx:

thats where I stored the file.

[17:24:31]

deekjx:

Its an AVI

[17:25:04]

Hiisty:

it shouls show up, even if ps3 doesent support it

[17:25:26]

deekjx:

how can i force the backend to do a scan? Or if the frontend sees the filed does that mean the backend has found it? I'm not using storage groups

[17:26:23]

kormoc:

deekjx: what myth version?

[17:26:31]

sphery:

ttbomk, the backend scans on startup and every 30mins

[17:26:42]

deekjx:

hmm, not sure, let me check

[17:26:48]

kormoc:

no storage groups makes me suspecious

[17:26:58]

sphery:

(might be a setting to change the 30mins, but the answer to your question is "restart the master backend (and the rest of your myth programs)"

[17:27:27]

natanojl:

sphery, Captain_Murdoch: Re changeset 23382, the QFont::setStretch fix; I've looked through the Qt source and found that the FT_Set_Char_Size calls all have the DPI set to 0. To me that seems to be the cause of stretched fonts on screens with non-square pixels.

[17:27:38]

deekjx:

version 0.22

[17:28:08]

deekjx:

I installed it via synaptic package manager on Ubuntu

[17:28:23]

deekjx:

Ubuntu 9.10

[17:28:59]

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[17:30:07]

deekjx:

So you think I should setup storage groups? Its seems that thats only useful for a multi system install. I'm running the frontend and backend on the same computer. I have no other clients.

[17:30:17]

sphery:

natanojl: 0 for horiz or vertical res? Regardless, that would do it--and means Qt (or at least Qt4) doesn't support non-square pixels. :(

[17:31:09]

natanojl:

sphery: Both, which means that FreeType uses 72.

[17:31:16]

Hiisty:

deekjx: i'm running also 0.22 FE and BE in the same machine, no storage groups and upnp works fine

[17:31:28]

sphery:

natanojl: ahh... :(

[17:32:17]

sphery:

so not even using the X-specified DPI at all.

[17:32:29]

deekjx:

hmm, I guess I'll just reboot it all again. The family started watching a movie on the PS3 so will be a bit before I can test that out

[17:33:12]

natanojl:

sphery: I replaced that with qt_defaultDpiX/qt_defaultDpiY and now Qt responds to the DPI setting in X

[17:33:33]

sphery:

feel like sending Qt a patch? :)

[17:33:40]

sphery:

http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/

[17:33:55]

sphery:

if so, please let me know which ticket, so I can watch it

[17:34:21]

sphery:

and, btw, thank you very much for investigating the issue

[17:34:37]

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[17:34:49]

sphery:

I really didn't understand how it wasn't working with a proper X config.

[17:35:09]

natanojl:

sphery: Never done that before =), will not probably not do it tonight though.

[17:35:36]

sphery:

yeah, no real hurry... they're not all that quick at getting around to them, anyway.

[17:36:25]

sphery:

they've applied one of 3 patches I gave them. One of the 2 unapplied ones is the most important (and fixes a pretty bad bug).

[17:36:28]

natanojl:

yeah, it was a bit of a mystery

[17:36:55]

sphery:

and now we know why it's not working

[17:37:44]

sphery:

means if Qt is ever fixed, we'll have to make the correction only for older versions

[17:38:47]

natanojl:

Yup

[17:38:48]

high-rez:

sphery: Is this the patch for the hung threads ?

[17:39:05]

sphery:

high-rez: no, I didn't do a patch for that one

[17:39:26]

high-rez:

I don't know why it happened, but that problem has mostly gone away for me.

[17:39:42]

high-rez:

(Increasing the WAF)

[17:39:50]

sphery:

I couldn't reproduce it, then someone found the Qt bug ( http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTBUG-5990 ), and I realized it's only on GUI apps.

[17:40:09]

sphery:

you mean the defunct process thing? Or am I talking about the wrong ticket?

[17:40:34]

high-rez:

I can't remember the exact message, but essentially NVP can't instantiate because another thread was already running.

[17:40:49]

sphery:

or perhaps you meant the deadlock when you tried to play back

[17:41:16]

high-rez:

Like, watching livetv, hit back to go to the menu, then go back to livetv, and it would fail complaining another thread was already running. Would have to restart mythfrontend.

[17:41:18]

sphery:

where I gave you the patch that removes the timer that we have that's doing the same as the QTimer

[17:41:26]

high-rez:

Yeah.

[17:41:30]

sphery:

You're not using the patch, now?

[17:41:42]

sphery:

all the patch does is change timing on the threads

[17:42:00]

sphery:

it "fixed" the issue as a side effect

[17:42:27]

high-rez:

I'm not quite sure if I'm running the patch now. I recompile way too often.

[17:42:30]

sphery:

we still need to properly fix the race conditions, but we had it mostly tuned to work well enough on most systems

[17:42:38]

sphery:

heh, just curious

[17:42:48]

high-rez:

What line should I look for in my tree ?

[17:42:58]

high-rez:

Actually I'll jsut svn diff

[17:43:03]

high-rez:

See if its all the same.

[17:43:07]

sphery:

I think after [23575] the patch will need an update

[17:43:30]

high-rez:

Yeah, not running it ATM. But things appear to have settled down – and I'm not quite sure why.

[17:51:08]

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[17:53:44]

high-rez:

Hmmf

[17:54:32]

high-rez:

So... How long does it usually take to get tribune to update a broken lineup?

[17:54:59]

jams:

high-rez- time warner?

[17:55:18]

high-rez:

no, tribune.

[17:55:22]

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[17:55:30]

high-rez:

or is the question about the provider (sat)

[17:55:36]

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[17:55:45]

jams:

i was asking who the provider was..but you already answered

[17:55:48]

high-rez:

:)

[17:56:01]

jams:

high-rez- you could report it to schedules-direct

[17:56:03]

high-rez:

I've got a 10 day old RT ticket, and no update :)

[17:56:05]

high-rez:

Already did.

[17:56:08]

jams:

ah

[17:56:14]

high-rez:

Haven't heard back :(

[17:56:39]

high-rez:

Well I heard back that they sent it to tribune.

[17:56:41]

high-rez:

Then nothing

[17:56:42]

high-rez:

;)

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[18:26:34]

bugger:

hi could someone tell me in .22 does myth have intelligent handling of multiple capture cards for the same video source?

[18:27:00]

bugger:

i.e. if you've got two overlaping recordings scheduled on the same channel, use only one card, not one of the first and the second on the second?

[18:27:23]

bugger:

or if there's a free tuner and the recording is scheduled on the one you're watching live tv on, automatically using the spare tuner?

[18:27:36]

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[18:27:38]

bugger:

those two things have always annoyed the heck out of me in .21

[18:28:02]

bugger:

can't really tell from the release notes

[18:28:07]

high-rez:

You mean like multirec ?

[18:28:29]

bugger:

i'm not sure

[18:28:53]

bugger:

high-rez: no

[18:28:58]

high-rez:

I don't understand why you'd have two simultaneous recordings on the same channel – but myth will do multirec if you have two recordings on the same transport.

[18:29:07]

high-rez:

(same transport being a big difference)

[18:29:09]

bugger:

ok so i've got a channel number 9

[18:29:15]

high-rez:

Is this ATSC ?

[18:29:16]

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[18:29:27]

bugger:

any type of channel including analogue

[18:29:48]

bugger:

i have two recordings set up, one from 13:50 to 15:10 and the second from 14:50 to 16:10

[18:29:51]

high-rez:

Uhm, ok (but it works quite a bit different for digital than analog inputs).

[18:29:52]

bugger:

both on the channel 9

[18:30:15]

bugger:

the scheduler will always set up tuner 1 to do the first recording and tuner 2 to do the second recording

[18:30:46]

bugger:

why can't we have it just use the one tuner to do both recordings, in the overlap period it just stores the program from channel 9 to two files, one for the first recording and one for the second

[18:30:55]

bugger:

it'd be a far more efficient use of the tuners

[18:31:08]

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[18:31:22]

high-rez:

Aha. I believe the answer to that question is because you haven't yet submitted the patch for that.

[18:31:24]

** high-rez ducks **

[18:31:31]

iamlindoro:

don't duck, that's the right answer

[18:31:39]

bugger:

high-rez: lol so it doesn't do that in .22

[18:31:52]

iamlindoro:

generally people starting sentences with "why can't" are the people who can't submit a patch in spite of how simple they like to make it sound

[18:31:54]

high-rez:

That said, if its digital, and you enabled multirec, then I believe it'll always use the same tuner.

[18:32:34]

bugger:

ah ok

[18:32:51]

high-rez:

Which is why its important to know if its digital (dvb, atsc) or not.

[18:33:01]

bugger:

iamlindoro: well in such a large project submitting a patch isn't just a matter of quick hack

[18:33:13]

iamlindoro:

bugger: Then you shouldn't phrase it as "why can't..."

[18:33:17]

bugger:

it'd take me weeks to even understand how to do it

[18:33:40]

iamlindoro:

as there are multiple very complicated issues to take into account, particularly whether the API makes such a thing simple and the implications for the scheduler

[18:33:58]

iamlindoro:

Yes, but you're the one who wants it-- so if it's worth the weeks you think it would take, then that's your cross to bear

[18:33:59]

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[18:34:05]

devinheitmueller:

iamlindoro: Oh come on. It's just another couple of lines of code, right? ;-)

[18:34:09]

bugger:

iamlindoro: yup, i don't understand the scheduler so i wouldn't even know where to start

[18:34:28]

bugger:

it just seems like an obvious thing and i'm surprised it hasn't been annoying other people too lol

[18:34:39]

high-rez:

bugger: multirec

[18:34:44]

kormoc:

it's less the scheduler and more getting the file writer to stream to multiple targets at the right points...

[18:34:46]

iamlindoro:

bugger: right, so it's definitely not a simple problem... it was the subject of an entire branch that was abandoned, and the people who *wrote* the scheduler were the ones who decided it was unfeaible

[18:35:11]

iamlindoro:

devinheitmueller: heh

[18:35:17]

bugger:

ah ok, so multirec does it as a sideeffect of what multirec does

[18:35:47]

bugger:

iamlindoro: ah i figured it must have been considered

[18:35:51]

yunosh:

hi, what could cause prebuffering pauses only if watching livetv? i suspected network issues because this is a remote frontend via wlan and it only happens with high-bandwidth channels. but it happens *only* on livetv, not when watching recordings from the same channels

[18:36:01]

high-rez:

Sure, because it can tune two or more channel that are on the same transport... So you get what you want as long as you're dvb/atsc.

[18:36:09]

** devinheitmueller wonders where he can get a slice of decent apple pie in midtown Manhattan... **

[18:36:16]

devinheitmueller:

sorry, wrong window.

[18:36:24]

yunosh:

of course i've already gone through the prebuffering wiki page

[18:36:40]

iamlindoro:

Frank's Pies, 76th and Lex

[18:36:47]

bugger:

how about my second questions is there automatic shifting of a recording to a spare tuner if you're watching live tv on the one it's scheduled for?

[18:36:51]

devinheitmueller:

yunosh: perhaps your tuner takes a long time to tune to a channel and get a lock.

[18:37:03]

devinheitmueller:

iamlindoro: wow, you *are* quite helpful today.

[18:37:16]

** iamlindoro not really, as it's not really midtown and I just made it up :) **

[18:37:29]

** kormoc laughs **

[18:37:38]

devinheitmueller:

crap.

[18:37:46]

kormoc:

iamlindoro: so riddle me this, where can I get a decent cup of espresso in SoCal?

[18:37:51]

iamlindoro:

devinheitmueller: I'd help if I could though :)

[18:38:00]

iamlindoro:

kormoc: I dunno, I'd have to move there to find out :)

[18:38:08]

kormoc:

heh

[18:38:09]

iamlindoro:

Now in NorCal...

[18:38:13]

devinheitmueller:

Now wonder "frank's pies 76th lex" didn't turn up anything in Google.

[18:38:20]

yunosh:

devinheitmueller: how would that relate to prebuffering issues? oh, i forgot to mention this only happens after the it runs for a while, like half a minute. first it works flawlessly (after getting the lock)

[18:38:38]

yunosh:

and i don't have any issues with the combined be/fe

[18:38:54]

iamlindoro:

devinheitmueller: I try to occupy both ends of the spectrum-- if I can't help, I find it fun to actively hinder ;)

[18:38:57]

kormoc:

iamlindoro: Santa Clara?

[18:39:02]

bugger:

hrmm multirec looks cool

[18:39:10]

iamlindoro:

kormoc: Close enough, that's about 10 minutes away

[18:39:24]

bugger:

i have to re do my mythsetup anyway, atm the second tuner in my dual tuner card just gives me black screen lol

[18:39:28]

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[18:39:39]

bugger:

since a lovely little upgrade

[18:39:55]

devinheitmueller:

yunosh: well, it might not actually be prebuffering. The delay you are seeing when switching channels on LiveTV could just be a tuning lock delay.

[18:40:08]

high-rez:

What tuner?

[18:40:27]

devinheitmueller:

But yeah, if you don't see it on the same system that is a combined fe/be, then it's probably not a tuning delay.

[18:40:40]

kormoc:

iamlindoro: I'm way too Seattle, the three days in LA without decent coffee almost killed me! and Mid April, I'm gonna be attempting to go to the mysql conference in Santa Clara for the week, and I'll need solid espresso :)

[18:41:14]

yunosh:

devinheitmueller: exactly. and like it said, it happens *after* tuning in

[18:41:17]

bjd:

my tuner is slow to change channels

[18:41:22]

iamlindoro:

kormoc: Santa Clara should have some decent espresso somewhere... Not where I usually hang out, but it's a decent town

[18:41:28]

** bjd shrugs **

[18:41:30]

kormoc:

snaz

[18:41:53]

iamlindoro:

Some decent bars, too

[18:42:08]

kormoc:

Awesome

[18:42:18]

devinheitmueller:

yunosh: Well, I said that because most users cannot tell the difference between when they receive the tuning lock and what makes up the prebuffering delay.

[18:42:27]

iamlindoro:

I think there's a City Lights Espresso there

[18:42:34]

iamlindoro:

let's find out...

[18:42:39]

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[18:43:19]

iamlindoro:

kormoc: http://www.yelp.com/biz/city-lights-espresso-santa-clara

[18:44:07]

iamlindoro:

sort of an upscale sort of pastry shop, the desserts are delicious too

[18:46:20]

kormoc:

snaz

[18:46:51]

iamlindoro:

I suspect the conference is on the other side of SC, though-- off of 101 near Great America

[18:47:08]

iamlindoro:

Doesn't mean you can't get there, just that you'd need to drive

[18:47:36]

kormoc:

youch, sadly that's unlikely to be an option

[18:47:46]

iamlindoro:

http://en.oreilly.com/mysql2010/

[18:47:48]

iamlindoro:

That one?

[18:47:50]

kormoc:

Aye

[18:48:11]

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[18:48:12]

iamlindoro:

Yeah, so right by Great America

[18:48:23]

iamlindoro:

That's sort of all high rises and hotels right there

[18:48:30]

bjd:

wonder if work would send me to santa clara :)

[18:48:31]

iamlindoro:

and the amusement park

[18:48:36]

bjd:

could do with a break ;)

[18:48:49]

kamikaze2112:

hi all. I've got a couple questions that I'd like some help with if it's not too much trouble. I've been using SageTV for quite a while, but have been really considering trying out Myth

[18:49:03]

kormoc:

bjd: Heh, I'm just asking for the paid time off, I'm planning to cover the rest

[18:49:23]

bjd:

heh

[18:49:36]

bjd:

they'd probably pay for the flights and all :p

[18:49:43]

kormoc:

then you certainly should try!

[18:49:53]

bjd:

mysql just doesn't excite me tho :/

[18:49:56]

kormoc:

this year is going to be extremely technical compared to previous years

[18:50:05]

kormoc:

Drizzle is the new hawtness!

[18:50:06]

bjd:

oh, in that case

[18:50:28]

jams:

kamikaze2112- go ahead and ask..if someone wants to answer they will

[18:50:40]

iamlindoro:

kormoc: Have you looked at the BUQ w/ Drizzle at all?

[18:50:48]

kormoc:

bjd: http://www.xaprb.com/blog/2010/01/25/the-mysq . . . d-this-year/

[18:51:03]

bjd:

mm

[18:51:21]

high-rez:

"So instead of running mysql to get into your database you'll be running sqlplus from now on."

[18:51:23]

iamlindoro:

wonder how hard the migration would be/how it performs w/ the scheduler...

[18:51:26]

kormoc:

iamlindoro: not entirely yet, but I'm going to get it into the drizzle regression testing suite so it'll be officially tested against :)

[18:51:27]

bjd:

at work we use mysql 5.0 – altho it's EoL we have enterprise support so we're covered till the end of 2011

[18:51:36]

iamlindoro:

kormoc: neat!

[18:51:41]

bjd:

i'm struggling to get the business to upgrade to 5.1 :/

[18:51:48]

high-rez:

"Also instead of specifying the database name at the commany line, just set your ORA^H^H^MYSQL_SID"

[18:51:56]

kamikaze2112:

so, I've got an HDPVR and was wondering if it's working yet, and I've also got a USB-UIRT that I need to blast my set top boxes, and was wondering if it works well under linux. I'm a linux noob, but I do have a lot of windows and some Mac OS experience

[18:52:19]

kormoc:

bjd: highly recommended that you migrate to the percona builds of 5.1 in a few months (when your support runs out), you can get amazing performance boosts with it

[18:52:38]

high-rez:

kamikaze2112: hdpvr works.

[18:52:46]

bjd:

management like the enterprise support tho

[18:52:54]

bjd:

altho i know the percona chaps do support too

[18:53:10]

kamikaze2112:

thanks high-rez. any idea on the usb-uirt?

[18:53:11]

kormoc:

bjd: your current management tools will work with the percona builds and aye, percona has support contracts/etc

[18:53:22]

wagnerrp:

kamikaze2112: works fine with lirc

[18:53:49]

jams:

kamikaze2112- http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/USB-UIRT

[18:53:51]

kormoc:

iamlindoro: I'm really excited about drizzle and will be doing my best to get myth support on it very solidly. This also means making myth innodb safe (yay!)

[18:54:00]

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[18:54:01]

kamikaze2112:

k. is that a big deal to set up? like I said, I'm pretty new to linux

[18:54:07]

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[18:54:16]

iamlindoro:

kormoc: I'd be down for anything that simplified user setup, though I'm not sure how/whether it would

[18:54:27]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: i recently came across some problem with someone using innodb and jamu

[18:54:54]

wagnerrp:

since its transactional, jamu was making all the changes to the database, and then they all got rolled back to nothing when jamu exited

[18:54:55]

kormoc:

iamlindoro: how bout no more grants? ;)

[18:55:01]

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[18:55:16]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: hrm... they toggled the auto-commit setting then, bad user/admin!

[18:55:47]

wagnerrp:

(actually RDV Linux tracked it down, i just made the one-line change to the bindings)

[18:55:50]

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[18:56:40]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: by default, everything is a transaction and by default everything auto-commits. You can turn off the auto-commit so then it'll rollback on disconnect automatically, but that's sorta bad practice when mixing innodb + myisam queries

[18:56:49]

kormoc:

as the innodb rolls back but the myisam doesn't

[18:57:17]

wagnerrp:

probably why no one has ever complained about it before

[18:57:32]

** kormoc nods **

[18:58:10]

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[19:00:49]

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[19:02:25]

dustybin:

ive finally found some nice hardware for my future backend box :D

[19:02:26]

dustybin:

http://paste.debian.net/61039/plain/61039

[19:04:05]

bjd:

are you in the UK?

[19:04:15]

kormoc:

you being?

[19:04:24]

bjd:

dustybin

[19:04:37]

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[19:04:38]

kormoc:

ahh, Mr. /ignored :P

[19:04:46]

wagnerrp:

heh, was about to ask that

[19:04:49]

bjd:

lol

[19:04:59]

dustybin:

bjd: yes i am

[19:05:03]

wagnerrp:

dustybin: would you say its the 'perfect' hardware?

[19:05:14]

dustybin:

wagnerrp: for me, yes :D

[19:05:35]

dustybin:

ultra low powered

[19:06:03]

devinheitmueller:

Do you have any idea what the power consumption actually is?

[19:06:03]

** iamlindoro reloads **

[19:06:12]

wagnerrp:

bleh... its not worth finding the logs for when iamlindoro threatened to kick him

[19:06:18]

bjd:

just cos it says green.....

[19:06:52]

bjd is now known as green-bjd

[19:07:00]

iamlindoro:

yeah, and then the tuners stay at full power full time sucking out juice like there's no tomorrow

[19:07:11]

** green-bjd is an eco friendly IRC user **

[19:07:28]

devinheitmueller:

I'm curious what people think "green" is in this context?

[19:07:31]

devinheitmueller:

20W?

[19:07:32]

wagnerrp:

really? i just thought you were jealous of something

[19:07:33]

devinheitmueller:

50?

[19:08:02]

green-bjd:

devinheitmueller: depends, if he's running vm's ...

[19:08:21]

devinheitmueller:

iamlindoro: I'm quite confident the tuner draw is usually a relatively low percentage on a typical desktop system.

[19:08:35]

wagnerrp:

devinheitmueller: i wouldnt be so sure

[19:08:47]

wagnerrp:

dont tuners generally idle 5–10W?

[19:08:50]

devinheitmueller:

wagnerrp: Well, what type of numbers are we talking about?

[19:08:59]

devinheitmueller:

depends on the tuner.

[19:09:27]

devinheitmueller:

For example, my typical USB tuners do around 350mw @ 5V.

[19:09:41]

wagnerrp:

i mean PCI cards

[19:09:56]

devinheitmueller:

Sure, the PCI cards draw more, but not *that* much more.

[19:10:08]

devinheitmueller:

(not that I have numbers to back up that assertion)

[19:10:09]

wagnerrp:

i have no reference for that, just some value i saw thrown out at one point

[19:10:17]

gbee:

my new iron claims to be green, reckons that it will save me £50, of course small print states that the £50 is a estimated value based on current energy prices and an assumed lifespan of 8 years, I've not once had an iron last 8 years, lucky if they last 4

[19:11:05]

devinheitmueller:

For example, last week I took a six month old Dell Inspiron, dropped in a new power supply and Nvidia GT210 video card, and shaved off nearly 20 watts.

[19:11:12]

devinheitmueller:

(it idles at 57W)

[19:11:59]

devinheitmueller:

I'm just trying to figure out whether that is "horrific" or "terrific".

[19:12:13]

wagnerrp:

yeah, the compute nodes we have at work (2.66 C2D, 2GB DDR2–800, intel graphics, 250GB) idle around 45W

[19:12:19]

kormoc:

hrm

[19:12:29]

wagnerrp:

peak load is about double that

[19:12:35]

green-bjd:

:)

[19:12:46]

devinheitmueller:

Well, on this system, HD 1080i playback consumes 67W.

[19:12:48]

green-bjd:

i just killed a load of HP boxes at work

[19:13:04]

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[19:13:04]

green-bjd:

they idled at 450w :)

[19:13:11]

devinheitmueller:

Oh, it's 67W during LiveTV playback of 1080i, so that's both capturing and displaying.

[19:13:43]

wagnerrp:

we could probably drop another 5W off if we bothered spinning down the hard drives

[19:13:47]

devinheitmueller:

My IT hat would say "67 watts is great". My hardware engineer hat would say "67 watts is horrible"

[19:14:31]

kormoc:

my mini is 13w idle, my usb drive is 8 watts idle, and whatever the hdpvr uses idle

[19:15:03]

wagnerrp:

devinheitmueller: on the other hand, consider you only run that box a couple hours a night, and put it in standby the rest of the time

[19:15:07]

devinheitmueller:

Yeah, 13 is more around where I would like to get. I have doubts that is possible with a generic desktop system though.

[19:15:09]

wagnerrp:

your power bill drops below $10/yr

[19:15:41]

devinheitmueller:

Yeah, I need a good power management strategy that takes into account standby. In my case, I have a combined frontend/backend.

[19:15:52]

devinheitmueller:

Hence it would have to properly come out of suspend to record programs.

[19:15:53]

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[19:16:00]

wagnerrp:

i think mid-30s for playback is about the best you can expect to get with desktop hardware

[19:16:03]

gbee:

my printer is supposedly 8w idle, until now that seemed a little high but not unreasonable

[19:16:15]

wagnerrp:

and thats including stuff like underclocking and undervolting to only what you need

[19:16:28]

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[19:16:32]

wagnerrp:

if you want lower, you need laptop hardware

[19:17:00]

devinheitmueller:

Yeah, I've done zero actual optimization for power consumption. The only reason I had any numbers was because I was replacing the power supply and video card anyway, and happened to have a Kill-A-Watt kicking around.

[19:17:08]

kormoc:

I wonder if my getting a snazzy mini will be cheaper in the long run

[19:17:31]

bjd:

get a zotac mag or something

[19:17:40]

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[19:17:54]

wagnerrp:

ive got my two primary tuners (HDHR) on my server now

[19:18:04]

wagnerrp:

i should consider letting my FE/SBE go into standby

[19:18:20]

wagnerrp:

ive already got one FE going in and out via remote

[19:18:26]

bjd:

hdhr? dvb-s?

[19:18:39]

wagnerrp:

atsc, network attached dual tuner

[19:19:41]

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[19:21:12]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: per 23588, i thought i had updated any of those scripts that needed doing so

[19:22:46]

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[19:23:08]

iamlindoro:

You didn't teach them to be ToS compliant, though :)

[19:23:41]

wagnerrp:

yeah, but youre shifting blame onto me

[19:23:50]

wagnerrp:

that means people are going to come after me for getting their imdb grabbers back

[19:23:59]

wagnerrp:

:P

[19:24:38]

iamlindoro:

send them after me-- and besides, it was two reasons, not just one

[19:24:59]

wagnerrp:

i know, just joking

[19:25:13]

iamlindoro:

fetch_poster for example wasn't touched

[19:25:17]

iamlindoro:

ok

[19:25:24]

wagnerrp:

didnt use the bindings either IIRC

[19:25:40]

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[19:25:47]

iamlindoro:

but did include one of the ones that had ToS issues

[19:26:15]

iamlindoro:

anyway, feel free to send people after me about them

[19:26:21]

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[19:26:31]

iamlindoro:

I'll happily take the heat, they're using the wrong project if they want to steal data

[19:27:02]

iamlindoro:

The idea had been to update imdbpy.py to only work with the (lawfully downloaded) local copy of the Db... it just never happened

[19:28:23]

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[19:28:54]

gbee:

fetch_poster is no loss, imdb dropped all their decent posters and replaced then with ultra-low res versions complete with hideous compression artifacts

[19:29:28]

wagnerrp:

they never really did have decent resolution posters anyway

[19:29:51]

wagnerrp:

good enough for a small thumbnail image in mythvideo i suppose

[19:31:11]

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[19:31:23]

gbee:

not by the standards set by tmdb etc, certainly not pretty with 1080 displays and newer themes where the posters images tend to be larger

[19:34:07]

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[19:38:11]

iamlindoro:

I just didn't feel good about continuing to skirt ToS in a script, even if nobody uses it, under the guise of it someday being fixed

[19:39:39]

kormoc:

and besides, if someone wants to fix it, they can still pull it up from the depths of svn

[19:39:48]

kormoc:

so no harm, no foul, no loss, etc

[19:39:57]

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[19:49:05]

deekjx:

MythTV refuses to tell my PS3 about the videos located on the backend. There has to be a permission or something some where that I'm missing. The frontend can play and see those videoes fine

[19:49:07]

Beirdo:

if anyone here works for Canonical... be warned. I think your company fucking sucks right now.

[19:49:24]

Beirdo:

Ubuntu 9.10 doesn't run as a damn dom0?!

[19:49:43]

Beirdo:

there, enough ranting :)

[19:50:12]

Beirdo:

I think I'll install an older version... jerks. :)

[19:52:34]

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[19:53:00]

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[19:56:07]

_abbenormal:

Beirdo, please dont use that kind of language here

[19:58:27]

** kormoc yawns **

[19:58:53]

** Beirdo sends nasty thoughts towards Canonical **

[19:58:56]

j-rod:

Beirdo: tbf… does *anyone* with a relatively modern kernel anymore, outside of maybe suse?

[19:59:12]

j-rod:

I know they were constantly forward-porting that abortion

[19:59:14]

Beirdo:

j-rod: well, that's no excuse really

[19:59:28]

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[19:59:33]

j-rod:

Fedora dropped dom0 xen support several releases ago, for one :)

[19:59:34]

Beirdo:

they should give the option to use an old kernel then

[19:59:53]

Beirdo:

going for maximum incompability? :)

[19:59:54]

Beirdo:

hehe

[19:59:57]

j-rod:

old kernel + current userspace == fail

[20:00:10]

kormoc:

Beirdo: kvm > xen by far

[20:00:12]

Beirdo:

I'm not changing my frigging domUs to something else :)

[20:00:29]

j-rod:

this is why we (Red Hat) have people like Gerd Hoffman

[20:00:30]

kormoc:

xen lost their market share by refusing to play fair

[20:00:36]

Beirdo:

I just want it to WORK

[20:00:37]

j-rod:

we can run xen domU guests under kvm now

[20:00:45]

Beirdo:

oh really?

[20:00:47]

Beirdo:

hmmm

[20:00:51]

j-rod:

xenner

[20:01:08]

j-rod:

http://kraxel.fedorapeople.org/xenner/

[20:01:46]

Beirdo:

I like Ubuntu for a desktop, but it's becoming more of a PITA as a server

[20:01:50]

kormoc:

at SCaLE, Xen were talking about how they're going to have some awesome new feature soon that will launch them to the lead again, and I really wonder what that is going to be

[20:02:15]

j-rod:

kormoc: citrix mails you a check for $1k for every verified install?

[20:02:23]

kormoc:

that'd do it!

[20:02:44]

Beirdo:

hehe

[20:03:05]

Beirdo:

Well, OpenSolaris may end up being my dom0 if I can't get it to work otherwise

[20:03:15]

j-rod:

kvm has awesome new features too, plus, one feature xen won't ever have, which is upstream acceptance...

[20:03:50]

j-rod:

if I had to run xen, I'd just run rhel5 as my dom0

[20:04:03]

Beirdo:

I may go back to 8.04

[20:04:11]

Beirdo:

but I don't have the CDs here

[20:04:14]

Beirdo:

CD rather

[20:04:16]

j-rod:

and not just because I maintain the damned kernel for it either

[20:04:20]

Beirdo:

heh

[20:04:31]

deekjx:

Anyone have any advice on what could be wrong with my setup? I'm trying to get my PS3 to see the videos on MythTV. It sees the UPnP but it on gets to Videos -> Video_Root -> no titles found.

[20:04:35]

Beirdo:

I'm loathe to switch streams at this point

[20:04:56]

wagnerrp:

deekjx: its only been 15 minutes, and no new users

[20:05:58]

kormoc:

deekjx: did you restart the backend as you were reqeusted to do awhile ago?

[20:06:13]

deekjx:

this is the first time I've asked in 3 hours. I just made a statement 15 minutes ago

[20:06:16]

kormoc:

Beirdo: switching streams is fine, just don't ever cross them

[20:06:23]

Beirdo:

hehe

[20:06:29]

Beirdo:

kabloooey

[20:06:31]

j-rod:

xris: whelp, build on 10.6 on my laptop hasn't died as of yet… going to just leave it building overnight, I guess… 7pm, and I have yet to leave the office, not likely to want to touch a computer tonight anyway

[20:06:44]

deekjx:

yes, I restarted the whole server. I even restarted the PS3. The frontend can view all the videos fine

[20:06:55]

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[20:06:59]

Beirdo:

.win 41

[20:07:04]

Beirdo:

dangit

[20:07:13]

Beirdo:

and yes, I have that many windows in irssi :)

[20:07:24]

deekjx:

I lowered the file update to 5 minutes from 30

[20:08:02]

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[20:09:14]

lbt:

hi – I recently upgraded to 0.22 on Debian and have some recordings that show the wrong length. If I use mplayer the shows are all there (ie ~1hr). The f/e shows them as being ~20mins long.

[20:09:50]

kormoc:

rebuild your seek table

[20:09:58]

kormoc:

instructions in the wiki

[20:10:08]

lbt:

kormoc: yep, done that historically

[20:10:10]

Beirdo:

Hmmm, so KVM might support my domUs. That's something to look at

[20:10:26]

deekjx:

I'm running the backend and frontend on the same server. I have no other computers envovled. Do I need to load the master backend module for the UPnP devices to see the files?

[20:10:27]

lbt:

ISTR this was related to timezone/symbolic links....

[20:11:06]

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[20:11:11]

deekjx:

The mast backend modules seems to be geared towards multiple backends, but maybe its reuired for stand alone installations?

[20:11:18]

wagnerrp:

deekjx: do you have the backend running as a routable IP? not 127.0.0.1?

[20:11:26]

deekjx:

yes I do

[20:11:31]

lbt:

kormoc: and this seems to be affecting multiple recordings too so something is wrong at recording time.

[20:11:41]

deekjx:

I defined it in the Backend Setup

[20:12:39]

deekjx:

It almost seems like I need to flip a toogle to say that these videos are viewable via UPnP but ic an't find any such setting

[20:13:15]

wagnerrp:

if they are visible in the frontend, and the backend and frontend both have the same access to file storage, they will be available over upnp

[20:13:26]

wagnerrp:

note that upnp does not use the videometadata table

[20:13:33]

wagnerrp:

it maintains its own list of available content

[20:13:37]

wagnerrp:

refreshed every half hour

[20:13:54]

kormoc:

I really believe it's because there's no storage groups

[20:14:19]

deekjx:

I changed the refrech from 30 minutes to 5 minutes

[20:14:40]

deekjx:

I can try adn setup a storage group, but Ionly have one back end

[20:14:53]

deekjx:

let me set one those up now

[20:14:57]

wagnerrp:

doesnt matter, you should switch to using storage groups if possible

[20:15:05]

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[20:15:05]

wagnerrp:

the only reason not to would be if you have ISOs

[20:16:19]

wagnerrp:

the original idea was to transition to storage groups, and drop local access entirely

[20:17:00]

deekjx:

actually i believe I do have storage groups. I didn't realize they were predifined

[20:17:14]

wagnerrp:

they arent.. although your distro may have done that for you

[20:17:14]

deekjx:

I have my videos in the video storage group folder

[20:17:33]

lbt:

kormoc: so I used the mythcommflag --rebuild and that did fix the problem for that file. Thanks.

[20:17:50]

deekjx:

yes, I think Ubuntu setup a series of storage groups for me, each storage group has a list of folders

[20:17:51]

kormoc:

np

[20:18:13]

lbt:

kormoc: however it seems to be affecting multiple files and many (all?) new recordings... :(

[20:18:27]

lbt:

any suggestions as to the root cause?

[20:18:28]

kormoc:

lbt: check the backend for errors?

[20:18:41]

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[20:19:36]

lbt:

kormoc: looking... (any keywords that may be useful?)

[20:19:58]

kormoc:

lbt: I'd look for decoding errors, I tend to get them when things act up

[20:20:02]

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[20:23:39]

lbt:

kormoc: so here's a backend log for a 'dodgy' recording: http://pastie.org/837874 seems clean to me.

[20:24:20]

kormoc:

I tend to run with -v most, but Unknown type, recording width was 0 is worrying

[20:24:58]

lbt:

OK – it's a PVR350 FYI

[20:25:06]

lbt:

probably on v.v.old drivers

[20:25:15]

kormoc:

could be worth updating

[20:25:28]

lbt:

2.6.25.4-xfspatch-dirty <grin>

[20:26:14]

wagnerrp:

i believe the ivtv stuff was already completely within the kernel by then

[20:26:29]

lbt:

yes, sounds right

[20:26:34]

wagnerrp:

i dont think theres been much in the way of change since then

[20:26:46]

lbt:

I was helping the ivtv team around that time

[20:26:47]

wagnerrp:

filter dir?

[20:27:18]

lbt:

should that be there?

[20:27:23]

wagnerrp:

i dont know what that is

[20:27:55]

lbt:

it could be debianisation....

[20:28:05]

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[20:28:09]

kormoc:

nah, it's a unused feature iirc

[20:28:20]

kormoc:

you can do filters like increase brightness and all that jazz

[20:28:21]

lbt:

it is just the PVR card, the DVB is fine

[20:28:39]

wagnerrp:

can you otherwise use the PVR?

[20:29:03]

wagnerrp:

the card just hasnt gone bad?

[20:29:04]

lbt:

well, we only ever watch pre-recordeds

[20:29:09]

lbt:

and the piccy is fine

[20:29:17]

lbt:

playback in mplayer is fine too

[20:29:30]

kormoc:

and the seektable rebuild fixes it

[20:29:31]

wagnerrp:

i mean a new recording, straight off /dev/video0

[20:29:38]

lbt:

correct kormoc

[20:29:44]

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[20:29:50]

wagnerrp:

oh, its recording fine, its just playback that is an issue

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[20:30:04]

lbt:

yes wagnerrp

[20:30:07]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: it's the seektable generation that is failing for some reason

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[20:30:15]

lbt:

and only post 0.22 upgrade

[20:30:18]

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[20:30:37]

lbt:

(it can take a long time for us to catch up on recordings)

[20:30:43]

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[20:31:06]

wagnerrp:

theres at least one dev in here who has a multiple year/TB backlog on recordings

[20:31:13]

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[20:31:22]

lbt:

heh we're on 4Tb

[20:31:31]

lbt:

and about 3 series of 24 behind...

[20:32:36]

lbt:

OK – well, thanks for the help+support guys.... I'll prod the kernel sometime and I have a workaround too

[20:33:35]

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[20:33:56]

Brad-D:

hey wagnerrp, by any chance do you have an ipod? ;)

[20:34:06]

deekjx:

something I noticed. On the PS3, There are three sections, Pitures, Music, and Videos. Oddly I have more storage groups than that and I don't have a Music on. So I believe the UPnP for my installtion is using some thing else

[20:34:11]

wagnerrp:

no

[20:34:11]

lbt:

hmm – mrs lbt is telling me that different channels behave differently too

[20:34:31]

wagnerrp:

deekjx: the PS3 just splits up content between those settings

[20:34:39]

lbt:

which is weird as they all come via s-video into the pvr from a sky-box...

[20:34:41]

lbt:

anyhow...

[20:34:43]

wagnerrp:

all three sections see all three folder structures

[20:34:58]

wagnerrp:

but only the Videos section will display video file extensions

[20:35:07]

deekjx:

I'm not refering to XMB options. I have those three folders after I select the MythTV server

[20:35:16]

deekjx:

ahh okay

[20:35:23]

wagnerrp:

correct, those are myth's folders

[20:35:52]

deekjx:

so the Myth folders here does not have to match the Myth storage groups?

[20:36:49]

iamlindoro:

I said this hours ago, upnp is completely unaware of storage groups

[20:36:56]

deekjx:

ie I have a Music folder for MythTV via the UPnP but I have no music storage group defined

[20:36:58]

iamlindoro:

it can neither scan nor access them

[20:36:59]

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[20:37:08]

mattwj2002:

hi guys

[20:37:14]

iamlindoro:

there is no storage group support for music

[20:37:15]

mattwj2002:

I have a question

[20:37:19]

deekjx:

k, thanks iam

[20:37:28]

mattwj2002:

my question is about storage

[20:37:31]

kormoc:

mattwj2002: left at the sleeping cow and down about 3 miles

[20:37:43]

mattwj2002:

what?

[20:37:46]

mattwj2002:

O_o

[20:37:49]

wagnerrp:

your answer

[20:37:56]

mattwj2002:

oh ahah

[20:38:12]

wagnerrp:

having not actually asked a question, kormoc had no choice but to make one up

[20:38:27]

mattwj2002:

no can you put /var/lib/mythtv on a NTFS partition?

[20:38:30]

wagnerrp:

what that question was will be a riddle for the ages

[20:38:49]

wagnerrp:

you could... why would you want to?

[20:39:07]

mattwj2002:

because I am thinking about dual booting my mythtv box

[20:39:31]

kormoc:

cause you don't want to record things automatically?

[20:39:48]

mattwj2002:

yeah that is a good point

[20:39:48]

wagnerrp:

mythtv expects to have full control over the hardware

[20:39:51]

mattwj2002:

hmmmm

[20:40:13]

wagnerrp:

it cannot schedule around the assumption you will randomly turn the machine on and off

[20:40:38]

mattwj2002:

good point

[20:40:57]

mattwj2002:

maybe I should just build another system

[20:41:15]

wagnerrp:

what are you intending to do with this system(s)

[20:41:15]

kormoc:

%s/maybe //

[20:41:31]

deekjx:

matt, you can try setting up your machine with XEN and run mythtv on a virtual server and windows on another virtual server. but you need a powerful enough server to handle that

[20:41:47]

wagnerrp:

deekjx: no... myth and VMs is just a mistake

[20:41:57]

deekjx:

oh

[20:42:03]

kormoc:

xen is a dead tech anyway...

[20:43:03]

mattwj2002:

I wanted a good system for Windows 7

[20:43:20]

mattwj2002:

just to play around with

[20:43:36]

wagnerrp:

you dont want to run a backend on a machine you intend to use as a desktop

[20:43:44]

mattwj2002:

good point

[20:44:34]

mattwj2002:

I have an extra hard drive an quad core processor laying around

[20:44:40]

mattwj2002:

*and

[20:44:45]

wagnerrp:

what? why?

[20:45:31]

mattwj2002:

well the hard drive is in in another computer right now (it has multiple hard drives)

[20:45:48]

mattwj2002:

the quad core I update graded to a faster core

[20:45:58]

mattwj2002:

*upgraded

[20:46:10]

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[20:46:56]

jamesd2:

xen xen isnt as dead as you think.. its linux's favorite virtual engine, oracle and sun have both invested a lot into it and oracle has big plans to integrate its work with sun's work

[20:47:00]

wagnerrp:

i just always find my upgrade cycles falling relatively in sync with socket upgrades

[20:47:22]

wagnerrp:

i only once had the option of updating a new processor to an old board

[20:47:37]

wagnerrp:

and i ended up having to upgrade the board as well, since it wasnt stable at the chips FSB speed

[20:47:44]

kormoc:

jamesd2: linux's favorite virtual engine? The kernel devs have decided to support KVM officially, as has vmware, virtual box, fedora, redhat, etc

[20:48:35]

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[20:50:36]

Jester05:

hello gents

[20:51:32]

deekjx:

is there an import freature I shoudl use to get my files into the mythtv diretory? I've just copied them there using the mythtv user

[20:51:52]

wagnerrp:

you mean the mythvideo directory?

[20:52:09]

wagnerrp:

there is no 'import' capability for normal recordings

[20:52:22]

Jester05:

I now have my myth system set up to tune the cable box, 1 analog stream, and 1 OTA .. 2 if you consider multi

[20:52:52]

deekjx:

wagnerrp: yes, is there one for videos?

[20:53:08]

wagnerrp:

deekjx: whatever you defined in the settings

[20:53:28]

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[20:53:29]

deekjx:

wagnerrp: currently I'm just trying to use myth tv without the TV card

[20:53:37]

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[20:53:47]

wagnerrp:

tunerless mythtv is not a supported setup

[20:54:14]

deekjx:

hmm, thats may be my problem them

[20:54:16]

deekjx:

then

[20:54:29]

Jester05:

wagnerrp, whats this tunerless mythtv?

[20:54:29]

wagnerrp:

and on a single box, with no tuners, there is really no advantage over something like xbmc

[20:54:45]

wagnerrp:

aside from aesthetics and behavioral preference

[20:54:50]

Jester05:

wagnerrp, iptv?

[20:55:03]

wagnerrp:

Jester05: deekjx is apparently running mythtv without a tuner card

[20:55:04]

kormoc:

Jester05: one without a tuner?

[20:55:15]

kormoc:

iptv is a virtual tuner

[20:55:20]

kormoc:

(when supported)

[20:55:25]

deekjx:

I was hoping to add tuner card later if I liked the functionality plus I like that there is a module to stream video to the internet so I can watch content on the road

[20:55:37]

Jester05:

whats the purpose of running it w/o a tuner.. why not jut use boxie

[20:55:49]

Jester05:

or does boxie do tv now too?

[20:55:52]

wagnerrp:

Jester05: thats what i was saying

[20:55:52]

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[20:55:57]

kormoc:

deekjx: we stream video to a laptop, not to the internet... important distinction...

[20:56:05]

wagnerrp:

no, neither boxee nor xbmc supports tuners

[20:56:13]

Jester05:

hmm

[20:56:23]

deekjx:

long

[20:56:30]

wagnerrp:

deekjx: the frontend can stream to any machine with sufficient network access and bandwidth

[20:56:38]

Jester05:

are there any plugins any of you know of that allow myth to use tv/movie streams over the internet

[20:56:38]

wagnerrp:

s/to/from/

[20:56:47]

wagnerrp:

Jester05: MythNetVision

[20:57:00]

Jester05:

like say.. watch-movies-online.tv

[20:57:01]

Jester05:

hmm

[20:57:03]

deekjx:

that, part would be great when I'm sittign my hotel room

[20:57:09]

Jester05:

thanks wagnerrp I'll look into that

[20:57:23]

wagnerrp:

deekjx: aside from the experimental flash streaming of recordings in mythweb, mythtv has no on-the-fly transcoding for viewing over the internet

[20:57:43]

wagnerrp:

and most people dont have the bandwidth to stream full bitrate content

[20:57:44]

Jester05:

wagnerrp, you should be proud of me.. I set my myth up to operate my cable box lastnight ;)

[20:58:07]

Jester05:

and I think I'm going to buy a FTA setup and try to control the tuner box too

[20:58:15]

Jester05:

well the sat receiver box

[20:58:33]

wagnerrp:

you mean dish/directtv?

[20:58:39]

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[20:58:42]

Jester05:

no I just want FTA

[20:58:46]

Jester05:

want to mess with it a bit..

[20:58:50]

deekjx:

You can get myth to work with Direct tv?

[20:58:51]

wagnerrp:

then pick up a DVB-S card

[20:59:05]

wagnerrp:

deekjx: no, you can get mythtv to work with an external tuner

[20:59:10]

wagnerrp:

mythtv doesnt care what that tuner is

[20:59:20]

wagnerrp:

be it a cable box, satellite receiver, whatever...

[20:59:40]

Jester05:

I've considered that but I would somewhat like the modularity of using a receiver box..

[20:59:48]

Jester05:

this is just for testing purposes

[20:59:56]

Jester05:

and I may take it out on the boat w/ me this summer ;)

[21:00:13]

Jester05:

I want to buy a cabin cruiser so if I got a smaller disk.. Ku I could take it out to sea ;)

[21:00:17]

wagnerrp:

also, check out lyngsat... theres not much of worth on free north american satellite

[21:00:50]

Jester05:

yeah I know .. but it'd be nice to at least have some form of tv while on the lake

[21:00:59]

wagnerrp:

get a big antenna

[21:01:08]

Jester05:

i've considered just taking my myth box w/ me lol

[21:01:13]

wagnerrp:

or that

[21:01:36]

Jester05:

is there a way I could export my entire database to "slaved" backend then operate it as a masterbackend out on the boat?

[21:02:03]

wagnerrp:

not directly, no

[21:02:09]

Jester05:

I have that little dell P4 2.4ghz box I could use..

[21:02:10]

wagnerrp:

i was intending to write something up for that

[21:02:13]

wagnerrp:

but never got around to it

[21:02:29]

Jester05:

well if you ever get some time let me know ;)

[21:02:41]

wagnerrp:

will probably find the will to do so when the motorhome gets dewinterized and i put together a box for it

[21:02:48]

Jester05:

I want to get into myth development once I finish this last quarter of my degree lol

[21:03:05]

Jester05:

hmm

[21:03:15]

deekjx:

wagner: Oh I see, you hook it up to the sattellite receivier outputs, and setup a IR blaster to change the channels and what not. Is that what you are refering too? I have a TV tuner card here that I may be able to do that with

[21:03:20]

Jester05:

that'd be awesome.. and FTA would be handy to have in addition to OTA

[21:03:21]

Jester05:

brb

[21:03:34]

wagnerrp:

there has actually been discussion of the 'proper' way to do it

[21:03:50]

wagnerrp:

which would be export the metadata to a generic file, which mythtv would understand and could import

[21:06:17]

wagnerrp:

but theres a fair deal of other additions scheduled to be written which would also be needed for this proper way

[21:07:55]

** wagnerrp cant wait for 0.23 to get branched **

[21:08:47]

kormoc:

Yeah, I'm free to fix mythweb bugs again

[21:08:48]

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[21:09:32]

wagnerrp:

ive got a fair bit of code ive been holding off doing anything with during the freeze

[21:10:17]

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[21:14:15]

Jester05:

wagnerrp, I know this is probably a stupid question but is there a plugin for myth that streams from pandora.com?

[21:15:00]

kormoc:

mythbrowser with flash support might

[21:18:05]

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[21:21:53]

wagnerrp:

if they support flash, you may be able to put together some MNV grabber to build a station list

[21:23:37]

RDV_Linux:

Jester05: If you are asking about MNV and audio then it is only a twinkle in iamlindoro's eye at the moment;)

[21:27:14]

Jester05:

alright lol

[21:28:10]

Jester05:

I'm liking my myth arrangement .. just wish the PVR-150 could tune analog and capture Svideo at the same time

[21:28:32]

wagnerrp:

get a second, or a 500

[21:28:49]

Jester05:

well I have 2 PVR-150s

[21:28:58]

Jester05:

1 is capturing Svideo from the cable box

[21:29:11]

Jester05:

the other is tuning analog.. i'd just like to have 2 analog streams

[21:29:31]

wagnerrp:

get a third, or a 500

[21:29:51]

Jester05:

I'm going to set one of my Dvico's up to record unencrypted digital cable yet too tho

[21:30:09]

Jester05:

are many of the analog channels also unencrypted digital?

[21:31:34]

Jester05:

grr takes so long to filldatabase now that I have TWC Standard & Digital along w/ OTA Broadcast all coming from Schedules Direct

[21:32:10]

Jester05:

for whatever reason I keep trying to use the terminal I have open running it via ssh lol

[21:33:27]

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[21:37:27]

mzb:

it's got so bad that #mythtv-dev is invite only?

[21:37:58]

mzb:

ah, redirection... ?

[21:38:07]

** mzb 's head is elsewhere **

[21:38:57]

Jester05:

anyone know if Time Warner Cable only does qam 256?

[21:38:58]

kormoc:

there is on #mythtv-dev!

[21:39:34]

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[21:39:48]

mzb:

always used to work

[21:40:30]

** Beirdo downloads a full set of drivers for the GMA500 series **

[21:42:55]

Beirdo:

dang. someone should make a perfume from those flowers

[21:43:12]

Beirdo:

no idea what they are, but they are right outside the window and smell real nice

[21:56:59]

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[22:09:29]

innatech:

can anyone provide a hint on resolving nothing but a green field/bars being displayed by a HVR-1600 when viewing the s-video input through /dev/video0 (v4l2, CX-18) with mplayer?

[22:10:29]

innatech:

xvinfo checks out OK.

[22:12:10]

Jester05:

how long does it take to do your mythfill? .. mines literally been going for 30min

[22:12:23]

wagnerrp:

first run?

[22:12:35]

innatech:

first time for a new source? Loooong time. It fetches 14 days, ~760 each.

[22:12:47]

Jester05:

alright

[22:12:56]

Jester05:

I just added digital cable and OTA to my listings

[22:13:00]

innatech:

(I forget what units the meter measures, but each day was 760ish whatevers.)

[22:13:07]

wagnerrp:

yeah, just let it churn away for a while

[22:17:52]

innatech:

while I'm at it, if anyone has any idea why CX-18 can't seem to handle 2xHVR-1600s in the same machine I could use help w/that as well.

[22:18:11]

Beirdo:

oh oh. I see a cricket.

[22:18:15]

wagnerrp:

might have something to do with it needing to much kernel space

[22:18:28]

innatech:

Vmalloc? Cranked it up to 768M already...

[22:18:56]

innatech:

I'm beginning to thing this motherboard just isn't up to the task.

[22:19:16]

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[22:22:10]

Jester05:

guys, I have to admit... being able to SSH into all of my backends on a dual monitor pc is GREAT!

[22:22:59]

wagnerrp:

you do know that stuff has been around since before DVRs were ever conceived, right?

[22:23:22]

Beirdo:

hehe

[22:23:24]

Jester05:

wagnerrp, last night we discussed linux routers a bit.. I managed to close out the firefox that I had open .. what was that PC you were talking aobut using

[22:23:41]

Jester05:

lol yes wagnerrp I know that.. I'm just behind the curve ;)

[22:23:42]

wagnerrp:

Jester05: ALIX and Soekris

[22:24:15]

wagnerrp:

theyre lines of embedded machines, often with minipci slots, generally used to build routers and wireless equipment

[22:24:43]

wagnerrp:

ive got one of the ALIX units in my basement managing my network currently

[22:25:04]

Jester05:

hmm

[22:25:18]

wagnerrp:

you know... your browser has a history

[22:25:28]

Jester05:

someone had mentioned using some slim system 76 pc for frontend, 1080p playback

[22:25:32]

wagnerrp:

another one of those magicaly ancient technologies

[22:26:13]

Jester05:

I know, I scrolled thru it but must have missed it

[22:27:41]

innatech:

Is that the blocks that snap together?

[22:27:44]

Jester05:

something seems aerie on my slaved backend

[22:27:58]

Jester05:

I added a card and configured it but its not showing up on my frontend :-\

[22:28:10]

Jester05:

the frontend i'm at is also the slaved backend machine

[22:34:32]

wagnerrp:

have you restarted both backends?

[22:34:41]

Jester05:

no I haven't

[22:34:43]

Jester05:

just thought of that..

[22:34:52]

Jester05:

but.. my masterbackend is tuning shows lol

[22:35:17]

Jester05:

is there a command you can execute that will wait until all tuners are free before rebooting?

[22:35:28]

wagnerrp:

no

[22:35:44]

Jester05:

hmm I may have to look into that

[22:36:08]

Jester05:

could probably return information from mythstatus

[22:38:22]

Jester05:

do you guys keep your myth machines up to date, if so to what extent.. even kernel and the whole 9 yards?

[22:40:37]

wagnerrp:

i usually do a system update once every two weeks

[22:40:50]

wagnerrp:

but thats only because i update everything at the same time as updating mythtv

[22:41:16]

Jester05:

in the past I was running myth on a slackware machine and just never touched it

[22:41:24]

Jester05:

and never had to worry about crashes..

[22:42:01]

wagnerrp:

the way i have it set up, if an update ever causes a problem, its a minute long reboot into the old install

[22:42:14]

Jester05:

ohh

[22:42:17]

wagnerrp:

so theres almost no risk to keeping it up to date

[22:42:22]

Jester05:

yeah..

[22:42:29]

Jester05:

I should probably be looking into a system like that

[22:42:36]

wagnerrp:

at worst, i have to make a trip into the basement to hit the reset

[22:42:45]

Jester05:

yeah

[22:42:56]

Jester05:

I've got my system set up in somewhat of a different way tho

[22:43:09]

Jester05:

I'm using both backends as my frontends

[22:43:16]

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[22:43:33]

Jester05:

wanted to justify leaving the frontend machines on 24/7 so I wouldn't have to wait for them to boot

[22:44:05]

wagnerrp:

standby

[22:44:14]

Jester05:

I guess I could..

[22:44:15]

wagnerrp:

takes all of a couple seconds to bring the frontends online

[22:44:28]

Jester05:

just a press of the remote will do that?

[22:44:29]

wagnerrp:

my one myth box comes online faster than the tv its attached to

[22:44:35]

wagnerrp:

depends on the remote

[22:44:39]

wagnerrp:

some support it, some dont

[22:44:39]

[R]:

and the mothergboard

[22:44:46]

Jester05:

hmm

[22:44:58]

[R]:

i get homne i turn it on

[22:44:59]

wagnerrp:

[R]: depending on the remote

[22:45:02]

[R]:

and by the time i'm ready to watch

[22:45:04]

Jester05:

well wouldn't it depend more on the receiver?

[22:45:07]

[R]:

its turned on

[22:45:11]

[R]:

so i turn it off completely

[22:45:16]

[R]:

partly because i can't suspend

[22:45:22]

wagnerrp:

Jester05: some boards still dont support wake-on-usb

[22:45:30]

Jester05:

ohh

[22:45:33]

wagnerrp:

which means receivers connected through USB wont work

[22:45:37]

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[22:45:40]

Jester05:

yeah I know what u mean

[22:45:57]

wagnerrp:

however some older remotes connect directly to the power pins on the board

[22:46:08]

Jester05:

it would be nice to use the power button on the remote to IR blast to the TV too

[22:46:10]

wagnerrp:

and the board cant not support those (and still be ATX compliant)

[22:46:25]

[R]:

Jester05: i have a remote that sends power to all my devices

[22:46:28]

wagnerrp:

Jester05: they make special remotes for that

[22:46:34]

wagnerrp:

ones that support macros

[22:46:41]

Jester05:

I know ..

[22:46:48]

Jester05:

I'm on a college budget ;)

[22:46:49]

[R]:

and i'm making a microcontroller with an ir sensor thats gonna do powre on with my remote

[22:46:54]

Jester05:

I was messing w/ irw last night

[22:46:56]

[R]:

cduz i can't do wake on usb

[22:47:13]

innatech:

You can get the old clunky 90s programmable macro home theatre remotes kinda cheap on the bay.

[22:47:25]

Jester05:

lol na

[22:47:35]

Jester05:

I can write some stuff and make lirc do my dirty work

[22:47:39]

[R]:

i heart my radioshack 8 in one kameleon

[22:47:48]

Jester05:

just need to irw in the IR code and then irsend it out

[22:47:49]

innatech:

Or you can buy one of the early 2000s HP iPAQs with the universal remote program that they packaged.

[22:47:52]

innatech:

I forget the name.

[22:48:06]

[R]:

Jester05: blasters are ugly

[22:48:15]

Jester05:

I know but they're effective

[22:48:16]

innatech:

Cheaper then the expensive Harmony remotes and such.

[22:48:34]

Jester05:

I dont even have to have my IR blaster on the cablebox for it to hit it tho

[22:48:34]

wagnerrp:

innatech: but then youre stuck with a touch screen

[22:48:36]

[R]:

a remote that does macros is much more effective

[22:48:45]

innatech:

yup, that's the downside. Definitely.

[22:48:49]

Jester05:

I have it setting below the cable box beside the Rx and it works great

[22:49:15]

innatech:

On the other hand you can run x10 apps, a SIP client, etc. Ups & downs.

[22:49:16]

Jester05:

yeah and its also another $130 for the one I want lol

[22:49:25]

Jester05:

yeah..

[22:49:31]

Jester05:

I'm not sure how I'll approach it yet

[22:49:46]

Jester05:

I graduate in a couple weeks.. should just wait and buy a Logitech remote

[22:50:07]

Jester05:

I'm recording Futurama and Big Bang Theory

[22:50:32]

wagnerrp:

BBT isnt on tonight

[22:50:40]

innatech:

I'm recording....green bars. It's very Zen.

[22:50:48]

[R]:

when was the last time cbs monday was new

[22:50:53]

[R]:

they are really sucking

[22:51:01]

wagnerrp:

couple weeks ago

[22:51:08]

Jester05:

wagnerrp, BBT is on on TWC

[22:51:18]

wagnerrp:

Jester05: but its a rerun

[22:51:34]

Jester05:

yeah, I just recently got this myth system up and going ;)

[22:51:45]

Jester05:

I've been out of the MythTV business for a few years now

[22:52:30]

Jester05:

wagnerrp, I'm really liking that Soekris machine

[22:52:38]

Jester05:

found one w/ a wifi ant.

[22:52:47]

Jester05:

its only a/b/g tho .. :-\

[22:53:00]

innatech:

Soekris boxes are cool, but kinda of pricey for what you're getting these days.

[22:53:11]

Jester05:

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Gateway-Broadcom-4318 . . . em1e5a765efe

[22:53:30]

Jester05:

I may just get one of those puppies and put it in my masterbackend.. use it as a router

[22:54:08]

Jester05:

I would think my master backend/frontend machine could triple as a router and not be pressing the CPU

[22:54:19]

Jester05:

granted.. currently its only a P4 2.8

[22:54:39]

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[22:56:52]

innatech:

I'm in no position to say....I can't get backend working right on this X2 4200+ box that's got me having fits. When I have built gigabit routers/firewalls, however, I've used low power dual core SFF mobos and PCI-E multiport NICs. Throughput is the name of the game.

[22:57:34]

Beirdo:

wireless hardly warrants that for routing

[22:57:48]

Beirdo:

nor most home broadband connections

[22:57:52]

innatech:

No, probably not.

[22:58:06]

Jester05:

yeah very true innatech and Beirdo

[22:58:43]

Beirdo:

I used to use a 386 for routing... then upgraded to Celeron :)

[22:58:46]

innatech:

I haven't played much with N, so I'm not sure what you need.

[22:58:49]

innatech:

Heh.

[22:58:54]

Jester05:

I want it partially for the advanced routing capabilities and additionally.. my master backend is going to be on regardless..

[22:59:17]

Beirdo:

well, if your link to the world is 2mbit, that will be the major bottleneck anyways

[22:59:33]

Jester05:

no I have decent speed

[22:59:44]

Jester05:

TWC Roadrunner Turbo

[22:59:50]

Jester05:

don't remember specifics but its not slow

[23:00:07]

Jester05:

what do you think of using something like this for a draft N hot spot tho?

[23:00:08]

Jester05:

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Gateway-Broadcom-4318 . . . em1e5a765efe

[23:00:09]

Beirdo:

bet it is compared to wireless :)

[23:00:32]

innatech:

I'm going to be putting some kind of overpowered routing core system here soon, so I can move storage to a network attached ZFS pool.

[23:00:42]

Beirdo:

dunno, I use G

[23:01:24]

Jester05:

well the draft N router I want is $120–150 so if I can buy a draft N adapter and an existing box that is on anyways, why not do that and not have to buy a new router when my roommate moves out and takes his lol

[23:01:44]

kormoc:

Jester05: you're slower then he said, # Turbo with Power Boost – 15 Mbps/756 Kbps (bursts: 25 Mbps/1 Mbps)

[23:01:44]

Beirdo:

heh, true nuff

[23:01:50]

kormoc:

up is the bit that you'd care about

[23:02:14]

Jester05:

yeah I know

[23:02:16]

kormoc:

even TWC's extreme is fairly slow at 30/5 compared to other options

[23:02:22]

Beirdo:

and down of course... :)

[23:02:31]

Jester05:

yeah lol

[23:02:35]

Beirdo:

but 25Mbps is nothing compared to draft-N

[23:02:37]

Beirdo:

or G

[23:02:43]

Jester05:

but mainly.. I just don't want to have to pay for a router lol

[23:03:10]

Jester05:

I have a few G adapters laying around so i'm set on a/b/g

[23:03:23]

innatech:

I've got my media players attached to an HPNA over coax network. Speeds upwards of 100Mpbs. G is still fine for most other applications.

[23:03:28]

Jester05:

I just want an N terminal for future proofing

[23:04:28]

Beirdo:

heh

[23:04:28]

Jester05:

innatech, what exactly is a HPNA

[23:04:43]

innatech:

multipoint ethernet bridging over coax, basically.

[23:04:51]

innatech:

competing standard is MoCa.

[23:04:54]

Beirdo:

I use gig-E for wired, personally

[23:05:04]

Jester05:

thats what I have..

[23:05:13]

Jester05:

I've got all cat6 running from my gig switch on..

[23:05:29]

innatech:

HPNA is compatible with DBS but not DOCSIS, and MoCa is vice-versa.

[23:05:37]

Jester05:

hmm

[23:05:55]

innatech:

So the satcos often install HPNA to network their STBs while the cablecos use MoCa.

[23:06:01]

innatech:

You may also have seen HPNA in hotels.

[23:06:23]

innatech:

They often do it over phoneline.

[23:07:21]

innatech:

Anyway, the new 3.0/3.1 standard is good for streaming media if you can't pull cable for whatever reason.

[23:07:26]

deekjx:

does myth tv handle file names with spaces okay?

[23:07:38]

kormoc:

yes, it does

[23:07:49]

deekjx:

okay, thank you

[23:11:37]

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[23:27:45]

kormoc:

iamlindoro: have the url to the three still handy?

[23:28:18]

wagnerrp:

the three?

[23:28:28]

kormoc:

final themes

[23:32:45]

sphery:

there

[23:32:58]

sphery:

(he has it now, so if anyone was looking, no need anymore)

[23:37:09]

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