Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Wednesday, March 3rd, 2010, 00:01 AST

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oobe:

http://fukung.net/v/14355/381e385f90cc4eb53bb6a5fe0aa26df5.jpg

[00:02:21]

wagnerrp:

http://fukung.net/v/20576/c41335bcd266e466600a35040d480ef6.jpg

[00:02:31]

wagnerrp:

the fourth one is just amazing

[00:02:49]

oobe:

http://fukung.net/v/14361/abb8930a70946b8b9a7d61b7831e28a4.jpg

[00:03:22]

oobe:

lol

[00:03:29]

oobe:

yea that is cool

[00:04:07]

andreax:

hehehe rofl.. baaaad! :)

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tmkt:

hey hey..anyone have a mythmovies solution for canada?

[00:05:59]

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oobe:

i never go to the movies

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oobe:

http://fukung.net/v/20590/4a5aff1b5728002a1345d1b6facf217f.gif

[00:18:19]

bortoelnino:

hi, I'm getting occasional 'stutter' when watching live tv

[00:18:31]

bortoelnino:

this is in the frontend log

[00:18:32]

bortoelnino:

2–01 19:17:34.125 AFD: codec MP2 has 2 channels

[00:18:32]

bortoelnino:

2010-02–01 19:17:34.126 AFD: Opened codec 0xaa1e6d70, id(MP2) type(Audio)

[00:18:32]

bortoelnino:

2010-02–01 19:17:34.377 WriteAudio: buffer underrun

[00:18:32]

bortoelnino:

2010-02–01 19:17:43.625 [mp2 @ 0x114c6c0]Header missing

[00:18:32]

bortoelnino:

2010-02–01 19:17:43.625 AFD Error: Unknown audio decoding error

[00:18:32]

bortoelnino:

2010-02–01 19:17:45.585 [mp2 @ 0x114c6c0]Header missing

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bortoelnino:

is that just crappy reception?

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iamlindoro:

most likely, yes.

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iamlindoro:

A damaged stream of one type or another, usually as a result of poor reception

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bortoelnino:

iamlindoro : I had a pci dtv card before and I never saw anything like this, but on this new box with a usb dtv receiver I get the mosiac-ey pixellation

[00:22:54]

bortoelnino:

iamlindoro: is that just the way it is; are pci cards just better than usb dongles?

[00:23:33]

iamlindoro:

The bus is unlikely to be the issue in question, but every tuner will be of different quality

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bortoelnino:

I tried buying a new one, but they ended up having the same chipset :)

[00:24:25]

bortoelnino:

teaches me not to do my research

[00:25:59]

bortoelnino:

do you know by any chance if there is a way to get a signal reading on the screen while you are watching live tv?

[00:29:53]

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[00:30:45]

andreax:

I got following message in my frontend-log: VideoOutput, Error: Not compiled with any usable video output method. Ive no idea whats the cause of this and im kinda lost. Any ideas what goes wrong here? I upgraded xorg, did i missed anything?

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[R]:

andreax: it used to work and stopped working?

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oobe:

http://fukung.net/v/20592/invisible_homeless.jpg

[00:32:42]

andreax:

After upgrading both my BE/FE Combo and the remote FE to last svn, yeah. But on the BE/FE all is fine. On the Remote FE i lost all renderers in the profiles and even cant choice any – no clue what i destroyed.. :)

[00:33:01]

[R]:

you compiled it yourself?

[00:33:03]

andreax:

Even the deinterlacers are gone.

[00:33:08]

andreax:

Yeah.

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[R]:

sounds like you didnt ocmpile it properly tehn

[00:33:23]

andreax:

Or the compiler done... :) But i told him to do.. .)

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andreax:

I think i destroyed any dependency – but which? :(

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andreax:

Smells i need to reinstall the whole thing, i really cant find the error.. :(

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[00:59:21]

cesman:

For those interested in LinHES, http://knoppmyth.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=20875

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[01:30:38]

Tanthrix:

Is it a known issue in 0.22-fixes that sometiems fast fowarding to the "end" of a live recording (such that you're nearly live) causes the picture to freeze, but everything else works?

[01:31:07]

Tanthrix:

(ie, audio continues playing, skipping back works, but no visible changes to the screen occur, and myth must be killed off to fix it)

[01:34:55]

Beirdo:

tris: stop your excess flooding, silly user :)

[01:35:30]

tris:

beirdo: oof, sorry

[01:35:47]

Beirdo:

hehe, you have a bot going crazy, or just keep pasting too much?

[01:35:48]

tris:

znc apparently sucks

[01:36:04]

tris:

it just can't control the rate it sends commands to the server

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Beirdo:

stupid client ;)

[01:36:23]

tris:

it does it on its own just trying to join channels, heh

[01:36:37]

Beirdo:

jeez. ya might wanna try a different one then

[01:36:49]

Beirdo:

that's insane :)

[01:37:32]

Beirdo:

anyways, bedtime, I think

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[02:06:29]

JohnQ:

I went away for 2 days with my myth working happily.. now I am back, and every time I hit "Skip Ahead", it thinks I have hit the end of the recording... Nothing interesting in the logs. Any clues?

[02:06:53]

oobe:

http://fukung.net/v/15085/42a849f0796508085fcbb347045fda8f.jpg

[02:06:59]

kormoc:

rebuild the seek tables

[02:07:40]

oobe:

also JohnQ there is a chance some tables need repair if all your shows are like this

[02:08:16]

oobe:

an easy way to check is use mythweb http://localhost/mythweb/settings/database

[02:08:31]

JohnQ:

I ran mysqlcheck, and it showed no errors...

[02:08:44]

oobe:

the table to worry about i think is recordedseek

[02:08:55]

JohnQ:

I also tried "mythcommflag --file 5063_20100224230000.mpg --rebuild" as the logs mentioned, but it also had no effct.

[02:09:11]

oobe:

then check the link i gave you

[02:10:58]

JohnQ:

Yay.. Table './mythconverg/recordedseek' is marked as crashed and should be repaired

[02:13:27]

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[02:13:40]

JohnQ:

Strange that mysqlcheck didnt find it

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[02:15:41]

JohnQ:

Repairing the table fixed it. Thanks much!

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oobe:

thats ok JohnQ

[02:23:01]

JohnQ:

eh?

[02:23:16]

oobe:

ohh?

[02:23:19]

JohnQ:

ahhhhh

[02:23:29]

oobe:

aww!

[02:23:33]

JohnQ:

heh

[02:23:34]

oobe:

eeh!

[02:23:44]

JohnQ:

Anyway... repairing that table fixed it.

[02:23:52]

oobe:

yea i just read it

[02:23:57]

oobe:

glad it worked

[02:24:06]

JohnQ:

(It lost one row.. but I'll probably never notice it)

[02:24:49]

oobe:

i dont know much about sql i dont access it much on cli

[02:25:52]

oobe:

but when the table crashes its real obvious cause rebuilding seektables doesnt work and all shows cant seek

[02:30:51]

oobe:

fyi i think mythweb just uses scripts already available in contrib to run that functionality

[02:35:48]

kormoc:

mythweb does no such thing

[02:36:05]

kormoc:

tho, to be fair, they both just run REPAIR TABLE `table';

[02:36:23]

kormoc:

but no, it doesn't call out to other scripts

[02:36:29]

oobe:

oh ok that was only an assumption

[02:42:59]

JohnQ:

Now if I could only figure out why the audio and video are out of sync when watching greys anatomy.

[02:43:31]

JohnQ:

The audio plays at a constant rate, but the video speeds up and slows down and speeds up and slows down..

[02:44:31]

oobe:

thats a pity i cant say what that is

[02:44:41]

oobe:

do you transcode?

[02:44:46]

JohnQ:

Nope

[02:45:06]

oobe:

somtimes i have seen digital tv broadast that way

[02:45:13]

oobe:

from a set top box

[02:45:20]

oobe:

only once actually

[02:45:20]

JohnQ:

wierd

[02:45:21]

kormoc:

run with -v most and see what spits out to the terminal

[02:45:45]

oobe:

-v playback too maybe?

[02:46:16]

JohnQ:

kormoc: Excellent. I'll try that next time I have an episode of greys anatomy recorded :-)

[02:46:31]

kormoc:

-v most is -v all without the database calls iirc

[02:47:36]

oobe:

JohnQ, are you saying you dont have this one recorded

[02:47:53]

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[02:47:54]

JohnQ:

This one?

[02:48:02]

oobe:

actually this is slightly unrelated but i transcode most recordings by default

[02:48:25]

JohnQ:

It happens every time I watch any episodes of that one show. I don't think i have one right now though.

[02:48:30]

oobe:

and i found certain shows mess up the audio sync when auto transcoding with my profile

[02:48:40]

oobe:

so i set those shows not to transcode

[02:48:50]

JohnQ:

I don't transcode anything.

[02:48:54]

oobe:

i know

[02:49:06]

oobe:

hence me saying slightly unrelated

[02:49:10]

JohnQ:

ah

[02:49:20]

oobe:

the only thing thats similar is its just for certain shows

[02:49:25]

oobe:

not many only 1 or 2

[02:49:49]

oobe:

makes me think the broadcast has some special thing that causes problems

[02:50:07]

JohnQ:

I think it might happen on House too.

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Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v stoffel

[02:55:00]

oobe:

those are both good shows

[02:55:03]

oobe:

pity

[02:57:36]

JohnQ:

with -v most I am seeing mostly subtitle spam. (In english and spanish apparently)

[02:59:13]

JohnQ:

I'm also seeing a log of things like "XDS: failed CRC 695/1071"

[02:59:41]

JohnQ:

and

[02:59:42]

JohnQ:

2010-03–02 22:59:28.056 NVP(0): Video is 3.03525 frames ahead of audio,

[02:59:42]

JohnQ:

doubling video frame interval to slow down.

[03:00:49]

oobe:

try enabling extra audio buffingering in tv playback settings on first page

[03:00:59]

JohnQ:

its already on

[03:01:09]

oobe:

i guess you could try disabling it

[03:01:25]

JohnQ:

I did :-)

[03:01:27]

oobe:

theres also use video as timebase

[03:01:38]

JohnQ:

That actually made the audio wobble...

[03:02:03]

JohnQ:

Like, any continuous note that was playing in the music would pitch shift all over the place.

[03:02:11]

oobe:

have you tried playing the video with mplayer or other external player

[03:02:27]

JohnQ:

Nah, haven't gone down that road yet.

[03:05:12]

oobe:

i suspect it would still be out of sync which means there was somthing wrong with the original broadcast

[03:05:56]

JohnQ:

Nah, I th ink it has something to do with myth. It seems to be a lot worse immediately after I skip forward.

[03:06:35]

JohnQ:

And those "doubling video frame interval to slow down" spam the logs when it happens.

[03:07:17]

oobe:

there is one way to easily check

[03:11:13]

JohnQ:

Plays fine in mplayer

[03:21:06]

kormoc:

that's worth a ticket with a short sample clip (30 seconds or so)

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[03:24:55]

JohnQ:

Normally, I'd agree.. but I'm running a rather old build from trunk

[03:25:31]

JohnQ:

I'll live with it until I can upgrade to a "real" release

[03:25:43]

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[03:26:13]

JohnQ:

How can I find out if the current "real" release is later than my existing trunk build?

[03:26:24]

JohnQ:

(I can't go backwards)

[03:26:44]

kormoc:

check the revision number of the branch vs the revision number you are on

[03:27:14]

JohnQ:

Hmm

[03:27:22]

JohnQ:

Does this answer the question? : mythfrontend version: trunk [20708] www.mythtv.org

[03:27:48]

oobe:

22 fixes would be newer

[03:27:56]

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[03:27:57]

oobe:

probably want to update the schema

[03:27:58]

JohnQ:

The date on my executables are Jun 15 '09

[03:28:07]

kormoc:

http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/log/branches/release-0-22-fixes

[03:28:09]

JohnQ:

Probably pretty old

[03:29:48]

oobe:

Using protocol version 50 and Current MythTV Schema Version (DBSchemaVer): 1244 is what .22 fixes looks liek

[03:30:38]

JohnQ:

Ya, I am pretty old then.

[03:30:58]

JohnQ:

schema 1235 and protocol 45

[03:33:38]

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[03:35:21]

JohnQ:

I guess I'll upgrade to 0.22 at some point then... and just live with it until then.

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[03:37:23]

JohnQ:

thanks a lot, both of you. I'll probably be back if 0.22 doesn;t fix it. ... but I am guessing it will.

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[03:38:03]

oobe:

gl

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oobe:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2009-12 . . . t-name_N.htm

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[07:26:49]

zetheroo:

how do I find out if my hardware is supported?

[07:28:01]

zetheroo:

I am trying to search the V4L archive but am not getting anywhere ...

[07:28:10]

justinh:

look in the v4l wiki

[07:28:13]

justinh:

linuxtv.org

[07:28:37]

zetheroo:

that's what i am doing ... no!?

[07:29:35]

justinh:

I don't know. you tell us

[07:30:41]

zetheroo:

well I have searched the v4l archive ... that is what your talking about ... no!?

[07:30:50]

justinh:

no

[07:30:54]

justinh:

the WIKI

[07:31:30]

sid3windr:

but he's looking at the archive!

[07:31:41]

zetheroo:

I was at the wiki

[07:32:06]

zetheroo:

that is how I got to the v4l archive

[07:32:17]

zetheroo:

:-/

[07:32:27]

justinh:

http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

[07:32:47]

justinh:

if you can't find your hardware linked from one of those pages listed on that page, you're sunk. Probably

[07:33:16]

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[07:33:34]

zetheroo:

"one of those links"

[07:33:41]

zetheroo:

wow ... that's a help :P

[07:33:58]

zetheroo:

nvm

[07:34:01]

justinh:

zetheroo: you're not exactly furnishing US with any information either

[07:34:23]

justinh:

like by saying what KIND of device it is.. that'd be a fricking start

[07:34:30]

zetheroo:

justinh: what information would 'furnish' you?

[07:34:34]

justinh:

analogue/digital/pci/usb

[07:34:40]

justinh:

manufacturer/model number...

[07:34:53]

zetheroo:

USB ATSC stick

[07:34:58]

zetheroo:

Analog and Digital

[07:35:00]

sid3windr:

cash available to buy another one/sponsor driver development...

[07:35:01]

sid3windr:

:>

[07:35:01]

justinh:

instead of just bloody whining "muh, can't find no info help"

[07:35:12]

sid3windr:

I can't get no... satisfaction!

[07:35:26]

justinh:

so then you go click on the ATSC link on that page I provided

[07:35:28]

zetheroo:

nvm man ... did not mean to ruin your day

[07:35:35]

justinh:

then you go click on the USB link on that page

[07:35:42]

justinh:

this stuff isn't bloody brain surgery

[07:36:18]

justinh:

whee look ! http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/ATSC_USB_Devices

[07:36:42]

justinh:

you've not ruined my day. maybe if we met in person .. that could ruin my day..

[07:37:04]

zetheroo:

no need to be nasty

[07:37:44]

zetheroo:

these are all big brand names ... nothing like what I have ...

[07:37:50]

justinh:

figures

[07:38:07]

justinh:

I guess you're out of luck then

[07:38:39]

justinh:

unless the thing just happens to use an identical chipset to one which is already supported

[07:38:39]

zetheroo:

this is an AUTV001 unit

[07:39:58]

justinh:

the rule goes – check the list of supported hardware *before* spending any money. Saves many a person big disappointments

[07:40:10]

sid3windr:

also check the usb id's

[07:40:14]

justinh:

but I bet it wasn't what you'd call expensive anyway

[07:40:55]

zetheroo:

$65 ..

[07:41:10]

justinh:

would've been better getting a supported one for that price

[07:41:25]

zetheroo:

this is it: http://www.tootoo.com/d-p18339575-AnyTV_AUTV0 . . . with_Vista_/

[07:42:25]

justinh:

wow. would you buy anything from that website? lol

[07:42:31]

zetheroo:

AU0828 is in the list of supported adapters

[07:42:40]

zetheroo:

I did not say i bought it from there

[07:43:18]

justinh:

anyway, this isn't the 'is my hardware supported' channel btw

[07:43:31]

justinh:

try #linuxtv

[07:44:37]

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[07:52:24]

zetheroo:

not like there is all that much traffic here ... :-D

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[08:10:30]

Pulse_R:

hi guys, I'm trying to compile on OS X, and there's no /etc/ld.so.conf file... I am a bit new to Mac, but have compiled MySQL, qmake and a few others without problems..

[08:10:34]

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[08:10:49]

Pulse_R:

I'm getting the old Freetype error in ./config

[08:10:59]

Pulse_R:

ure

[08:13:47]

Dibblah:

Are you using osx-packager.pl ?

[08:14:22]

Dibblah:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Myth_on_Mac_OS_X

[08:18:12]

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[08:25:29]

Pulse_R:

trying to do it manually – might be the hard way – looking at the perl now

[08:25:53]

Beirdo:

Another person who likes to reinvent the wheel? :)

[08:27:41]

Pulse_R:

heh, actually should have RTFM more closely.

[08:27:44]

Pulse_R:

thanks

[08:27:48]

Pulse_R:

I'll try that.

[08:28:02]

Pulse_R:

it was only freetype that stopped me.

[08:28:26]

Beirdo:

so far :)

[08:29:09]

Beirdo:

anyways, good luck, at least you have more reference material for your quest now :)

[08:35:58]

stuarta:

Pulse_R: you need to use osx-packager.pl

[08:36:04]

stuarta:

it exists for that very reason

[08:38:27]

Pulse_R:

the script is running, but I saw some errors about Ruby is too old. should I be concerned?

[08:39:01]

** stuarta bemones his mac mini being broken **

[08:39:07]

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[08:40:26]

** Pulse_R bemoans his mac mini being PPC **

[08:41:44]

stuarta:

oooo

[08:42:01]

Pulse_R:

script is still running – lots of includes going on there

[08:42:44]

Pulse_R:

the problems all started when I broke leopard, and only had restore discs for Tiger

[08:43:13]

Pulse_R:

now I have to build everything because most binaries are for 10.5 now

[08:43:47]

Pulse_R:

just glad I'm not totally new to linux- that would be a double-headache

[08:43:55]

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[08:54:49]

Pulse_R:

hah! packager died at line 720 – when it tries to dowload the mysql source

[08:55:06]

Pulse_R:

I already have mysql installed and running

[08:55:40]

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[08:59:36]

stuarta:

but it's not where it is looking for it

[08:59:43]

stuarta:

so you dont have it

[09:00:11]

stuarta:

osx-packager.pl install everything into .osx-package/bin iirc

[09:04:51]

Pulse_R:

the server for mysql client (for mythbackend) is not found – HTTP error 403 from curl

[09:05:26]

Pulse_R:

5.0.85

[09:05:40]

Pulse_R:

seems the scripted mirror is no longer available.

[09:06:05]

Pulse_R:

I have 5.0.87 installed, just need to find a new mirror and edit the .pl

[09:06:27]

Pulse_R:

or can I just kill that part of the script?

[09:06:47]

Pulse_R:

403 is permission denied

[09:07:31]

stuarta:

you just need to link into where it's looking for the binaries.

[09:07:48]

stuarta:

then it'll find they are installed, and not try and download and install it

[09:07:49]

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[09:07:54]

stuarta:

alternatively

[09:08:30]

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[09:10:29]

stuarta:

update that section of the script for the version you already have the tarball for

[09:10:29]

stuarta:

and stick the tarball in the .osx-packager/src directory, and it'll just build it for you

[09:14:38]

Pulse_R:

s'ok, I just changed the .pl to where I got mine from, it'll do a clean make

[09:14:53]

Pulse_R:

it's on it's way again now

[09:14:55]

Pulse_R:

:)

[09:15:51]

Pulse_R:

almost bed time *yawns*

[09:17:50]

stuarta:

save yourself the download time and stick it in the right spot :)

[09:18:29]

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[09:19:07]

Pulse_R:

download was quick >100MB/s

[09:19:45]

stuarta:

that's pretty good speed for aus

[09:20:04]

Pulse_R:

yeh, gotta love cable

[09:20:54]

jarle:

Suddenly the channel scanner in mythtv-setup will not let me choose between DVB-S or DVB-S2 scanning. Problem with my db somehow?

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[09:37:51]

jarle:

Seems like my cards has changed ID. Is there a way to chaeck/make sure which card is set as /dev/dvb/adapterX?

[09:38:08]

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[09:38:09]

Pulse_R:

I got a make error in mysql now, will have to check this out, make clean...

[09:38:12]

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[09:50:15]

Pulse_R:

problem solved – can't use mysql 5.0.87... have to use 5.0.85 as per script. still had to edit the http source though

[09:50:36]

Pulse_R:

how fiddly!

[09:50:58]

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[09:51:09]

gbee:

can anyone remind me how we are supposed to define the mixer for the second audio device?

[10:00:08]

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[10:00:20]

Beirdo:

sorry, gbee no clue anymore

[10:00:53]

kairo:

myhtv have a torrent client?

[10:01:36]

gbee:

no, we don't condone piracy

[10:01:41]

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[10:01:59]

sid3windr:

but it's used for legit stuff!

[10:02:03]

sid3windr:

like redhat isos and wow updates!

[10:02:04]

sid3windr:

:>

[10:02:20]

** stuarta sharpens sp0rk **

[10:03:09]

gbee:

Beirdo: guess I might have to dig into the alsa docs, but few return alive from there

[10:03:39]

mag0o:

docs?!?! There's *DOCS*?!?!

[10:03:45]

mag0o:

:)

[10:04:31]

sid3windr:

what's up docs

[10:15:50]

Beirdo:

kairo: please read the channel FAQ that is linked on the topic

[10:16:40]

Beirdo:

Actually, I'm gonna go update it to add details about ToS violations after that last mess on the mailing list

[10:18:43]

Beirdo:

hehe, need to confirm my email first :)

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[10:34:46]

Beirdo:

there

[10:35:47]

Beirdo:

iamlindoro: take a gander at the updated channel FAQ... look good? I added a section for ToS (under Legally Dubious), and fleshed out the "no profanity" near the top

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[10:43:29]

Beirdo:

crap, blah

[10:43:47]

Beirdo:

anyone else here miss Greg the Bunny?

[10:44:17]

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[10:44:47]

mag0o:

anyone else here know who Greg the Bunny is?

[10:44:50]

mag0o:

:)

[10:45:05]

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[10:45:13]

jams:

watched the full season last month

[10:47:11]

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[10:55:23]

Beirdo:

jams: good man :)

[10:55:40]

Beirdo:

morning, devinheitmueller. Welcome back

[10:55:46]

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[10:56:38]

devinheitmueller:

Beirdo: good morning.

[10:56:40]

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[10:57:02]

devinheitmueller:

I've only been gone for something like 15 hours, but I appreciate the welcome nonetheless. :-)

[10:57:08]

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[10:57:52]

Beirdo:

I saw you leaving during the conversation last night, and was hoping we didn't piss ya off :)

[10:59:18]

oobe:

tilda is hella kewl

[10:59:54]

devinheitmueller:

Wow, I have to admit, I will have to look at the archive to remember what we were talking about.....

[11:00:12]

devinheitmueller:

... which might serve as an indicator that I'm not really pissed about anything...

[11:00:41]

devinheitmueller:

.... as Beirdo goes and manipulates teh Beirdobot logs....

[11:01:56]

Beirdo:

hehehe

[11:02:01]

oobe:

devinheitmueller, thanks for that thread info on dvico revert patch i experimented with them and now get good reception with all channels

[11:02:08]

Beirdo:

I don't have the energy to mess with that :)

[11:02:36]

devinheitmueller:

oobe: great to hear.

[11:03:11]

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[11:03:19]

Beirdo:

so it seems my fit-pc2 went from Tampa to El Paso... seems an odd route to get to Puerto Rico

[11:03:40]

oobe:

i do live in a crappy area for reception though chances are i wouldnt of noticed the problem if i lived in the city

[11:04:07]

devinheitmueller:

oobe: yeah, it's an edge condition.

[11:04:39]

devinheitmueller:

... and it varies depending on what country you live in. For example, the guy who did the original fix was in Australia, and did "what worked for him".

[11:04:46]

devinheitmueller:

Apparently the DVB-T is a little different there.

[11:05:02]

Beirdo:

hehe, I think everything is :)

[11:05:21]

Beirdo:

not that that's necessarily a bad thing :)

[11:05:39]

devinheitmueller:

Beirdo: now that I've looked at the logs, I

[11:05:55]

devinheitmueller:

'm really not sure what you're talking about. I guess you were bashing the DMCA right before I left, but who does that more than me?

[11:06:21]

Beirdo:

heh

[11:06:22]

Beirdo:

K :)

[11:06:40]

devinheitmueller:

The DMCA sucks. There, I said it.

[11:06:42]

Beirdo:

it just was an odd coincidence :)

[11:07:00]

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[11:07:06]

Beirdo:

yup. it sucks... but like it or lump it, it's the law.

[11:07:28]

Beirdo:

as Dickens once wrote: If the law says that, the law is an ass.

[11:07:33]

Beirdo:

(approx).

[11:07:52]

Beirdo:

in David Copperfield, IIRC

[11:07:57]

devinheitmueller:

Beirdo: well, just to avoid future confusion, I typically leave the office between 6:30 and 7:00pm EST. So if that happens in the future, you can assume that I probabably wasn't even looking at the IRC window when I whacked the close button on pidgin.

[11:08:28]

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[11:09:02]

Beirdo:

hehe, gotcha :)

[11:09:23]

Beirdo:

I use a persistent irssi session on my linode

[11:10:22]

devinheitmueller:

Yeah, I go back and forth between two computers, and it's easier to just logout to avoid having to unghost.

[11:10:58]

Beirdo:

makes sense

[11:10:59]

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[11:11:14]

devinheitmueller:

and all the channels I'm on are logged anyway, so I usually don't miss anything.

[11:11:35]

** devinheitmueller admits that he actually does read the channel logs on a daily basis... **

[11:11:50]

Beirdo:

coolness

[11:12:10]

Beirdo:

you will let me know if the bot dies and I don't notice, then, I'm sure :)

[11:12:12]

devinheitmueller:

speaking of which....

[11:12:29]

Beirdo:

it's been amazingly stable though. Kinda proud of that code :)

[11:12:35]

devinheitmueller:

zethereoo: if *you* read the channel logs, the au0828 *is* supported under Linux.

[11:12:54]

Beirdo:

is it made in AU? ;)

[11:13:04]

devinheitmueller:

Yeah, I wish I could say the same for the bot on #linuxtv and #v4l. I email someone about once a week when they go down.

[11:13:10]

devinheitmueller:

Nope, "AU" is for Auvitek.

[11:13:15]

Beirdo:

aww

[11:13:40]

Beirdo:

I left this one to its own devices for nearly 3 years (with only occasional linode reboots).

[11:14:13]

Beirdo:

if someone wants to deploy it somewhere else, I'd be happy to work with them

[11:14:38]

Beirdo:

(although this one will stay of course)

[11:14:39]

Beirdo:

hehe

[11:14:41]

sid3windr:

lol devinheitmueller you don't really think he will come back to read the logs, he barely found the wiki. :P

[11:14:59]

devinheitmueller:

sid3windr: Yeah, but I kill two minutes to wread his complaint. Figured it was worth a one liner.

[11:15:03]

sid3windr:

:>

[11:15:13]

Beirdo:

heh

[11:15:50]

devinheitmueller:

On second thought, that particular variation of the board may actually not have a board profile in the driver (which would be trivial to add)

[11:16:03]

Beirdo:

Microsoft Excel *so* does not live up to its name

[11:16:20]

sid3windr:

neither does Microsoft Works

[11:16:20]

sid3windr:

:p

[11:16:26]

Beirdo:

should rename it to Microsoft Underperform

[11:16:52]

Beirdo:

and Word... yeah, but good luck with Paragraph

[11:17:18]

** Beirdo is NOT a MS lover, can ya tell? **

[11:18:09]

sid3windr:

looks like you're an MS user though.. :>

[11:18:34]

Beirdo:

like I have a choice in the matter

[11:18:46]

Beirdo:

stupid corporate environment

[11:20:28]

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[11:45:40]

** gbee would subvert the corporate rules and run openoffice **

[11:46:07]

Beirdo:

hehe, I'm bad enough running Firefox

[11:46:24]

** stuarta went to the dark side and is back on a windows desktop :( **

[11:46:34]

** mag0o trashed my corporate installation and put slackware on my desktop **

[11:46:38]

stuarta:

in the office mind

[11:47:54]

Beirdo:

mag0o: I'd be fired if I did that

[11:48:34]

gbee:

all it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing

[11:48:43]

gbee:

:p

[11:51:42]

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[11:51:51]

Beirdo:

yeah well

[11:52:14]

Beirdo:

working at an aerospace company has its downside..

[11:52:19]

mag0o:

since i do mostly development work, they don't mind so much

[11:53:08]

justinh:

I don't get how MS are evil just for being the most popular by default

[11:53:25]

justinh:

sure they tell lies about their competition but who doesn't? ;-)

[11:53:34]

Beirdo:

their products suck

[11:53:40]

Beirdo:

and their licensing is EVIL

[11:53:54]

Captain_Murdoch:

MS was evil before they were popular, it's part of what made them big.

[11:54:03]

Beirdo:

and they became the "default" by being evil

[11:54:05]

gbee:

by comparison against google, MS aren't evil, but their corporate ethics and behaviour is hardly benign

[11:54:06]

stuarta:

see they aren't "the most popular by default", they are the most used by default because of the way they rode roughshod over every competitior

[11:54:30]

justinh:

gbee: IMHO that's one of them thingies, that is. corporate ethics

[11:54:58]

justinh:

my brain is full of dremel dust & metal shavings today

[11:54:59]

gbee:

aye, a contradiction in terms

[11:55:48]

Beirdo:

justinh: I could thing of worse things

[11:55:55]

Beirdo:

think rather

[11:56:07]

justinh:

well, that's the IP rated boxes ordered for this stupid ethernet over power wireless bridge effort

[11:56:46]

stuarta:

that's a contradictory statement

[11:56:50]

justinh:

and as predicted the fan inside the sealed box made a 3 degrees C difference for precisely 24 minutes

[11:56:57]

gbee:

they do IP rated ethernet boxes?

[11:57:11]

gbee:

oh

[11:57:12]

Beirdo:

justinh: that long?

[11:57:22]

sid3windr:

gbee: yeah they're rated to forward IP.. ;)

[11:57:22]

justinh:

no, it's a box to put a powerline ethernet converter & wireless AP inside

[11:57:51]

justinh:

run mains to the box, powerline ethernet thingy goes on that.. wireless AP goes on the LAN port of the powerline ethernet doodah

[11:57:57]

gbee:

justinh: yeah, guessed that's what you meant when I read the second half of the sentence :)

[11:58:05]

justinh:

it'll be lucky if it ever works in the field..

[11:59:06]

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[11:59:37]

justinh:

software is quite clever though. the bus dvr will allegedly realise it's back 'home' & start to dump the day's recordings to an ftp server

[12:00:55]

gbee:

well that's cool, I want to see portable frontends which auto-sync etc when 'home', auto-sync 'what' I haven't decided

[12:01:05]

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[12:01:16]

justinh:

heh yeah I could do with something like it for my car mp3 player

[12:01:27]

gbee:

but probably a selection of unwatched recordings, starting with favourites + music etc

[12:01:55]

Beirdo:

then put in a proper podcast client...

[12:02:04]

justinh:

meh

[12:02:22]

justinh:

podcast clients would still rely on me transferring a USB stick to the car

[12:02:43]

justinh:

or flattening the battery with a car PC :)

[12:02:55]

Beirdo:

heh

[12:03:05]

Beirdo:

or buying an iPhone

[12:03:10]

justinh:

MEH

[12:03:15]

Beirdo:

that's been my solution

[12:03:31]

justinh:

expensive toy for somebody who sends maybe 5 SMS messages a week

[12:03:51]

Beirdo:

hehe

[12:03:57]

Beirdo:

understood

[12:04:02]

justinh:

I've better things to spend the best part of £500 on

[12:04:03]

Beirdo:

but it's not just for SMS, of course

[12:04:15]

Beirdo:

yeah, it's not for everyone

[12:04:15]

justinh:

it's useless for SMS, by all accounts innit

[12:04:29]

Beirdo:

I haven't found that, but YMMV

[12:04:51]

justinh:

I like my LG phone – I just wish it was faster

[12:05:05]

Beirdo:

and more... Apple...

[12:05:09]

** Beirdo ducks and runs **

[12:05:19]

justinh:

it's like browsing the web on an original xbox running linux

[12:05:44]

justinh:

another thing putting me off getting an iphone is iTunes

[12:05:55]

justinh:

I absolutely fricking HATE that program

[12:06:12]

justinh:

they need to give the music/video part of it drag & drop syncing

[12:06:24]

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[12:06:43]

Beirdo:

will never happen :)

[12:06:48]

justinh:

people slag mythmusic off.. they've prolly never tried syncing an iPod

[12:07:02]

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[12:07:18]

Beirdo:

yeah, iTunes is a pig too

[12:07:24]

justinh:

tick the box, go to sync.. it says it's doing it. let it finish, unplug the ipod.. no, it's not there. GRRRRRRRR

[12:09:47]

justinh:

I also hate how all the files are effectively hidden behind a database

[12:10:51]

justinh:

I did try a 3rd party app.. can't remember what it was called. that was drag & drop.. but then it bricked the ipod

[12:12:05]

Beirdo:

yup

[12:12:23]

Beirdo:

you use Apple hardware.. you use Apple software

[12:12:36]

Beirdo:

and vice versa (stupid Snow Leopard)

[12:14:13]

justinh:

well I reckon it's hometime :-)

[12:14:50]

Beirdo:

enjoy

[12:15:29]

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[12:16:54]

Beirdo:

it's beer o'clock

[12:18:21]

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[12:35:52]

gbee:

I won't be interested in any smart phone until data rates are reasonable and by which I mean cheap without being tied into an expensive contract which I neither want nor need

[12:38:06]

gbee:

I'm much happier with free wifi hotspots (pay ones are grossly overpriced), but they are few and far between unfortunately

[12:39:11]

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[12:41:43]

Beirdo:

gbee: you may be waiting a while

[12:42:33]

Beirdo:

understandable though

[12:45:43]

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[12:46:16]

gbee:

the charges for wifi mystify me, why when I pay ~£20 a month for a 24/7 10Mb connection at home do I have to pay £5+ per hour (sometimes 30 min) for a <1Mb connection, especially when all I want is 30 seconds to check my emails etc

[12:46:31]

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[12:47:12]

gbee:

the operators are raking it in and mostly because it gets charged to expense accounts no-one really cares

[12:48:06]

Beirdo:

yeah

[12:48:13]

Beirdo:

let's start a wireless hotspot

[12:48:35]

Beirdo:

GougeNScrew Wireless

[12:48:49]

Beirdo:

at least it would be honestly named

[12:49:30]

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[12:56:37]

gbee:

I don't mind paying but I'll pay a reasonable charge, something that reflects the low operating costs

[12:58:09]

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[12:58:51]

Beirdo:

like nothing? :)

[12:59:12]

Beirdo:

Starbucks here in PR has free WiFi

[12:59:20]

Beirdo:

and Burger King... and Dennys

[12:59:20]

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[13:01:09]

jams:

not for sure why, but I just purchased a usb floppy drive

[13:01:19]

Beirdo:

heh

[13:01:23]

jams:

you never know when you will need one!

[13:01:27]

Beirdo:

they are handy to have sometimes

[13:01:35]

Beirdo:

I have one for my laptop

[13:01:48]

Beirdo:

well, netbook, technically

[13:01:52]

oobe:

maybe if you open a time capsule

[13:02:03]

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[13:02:04]

jams:

i have several internal ones sitting on the shelf, but pain to setup when needed

[13:02:08]

Beirdo:

sometimes booting USB sticks just don't work

[13:02:23]

Beirdo:

BIOS upgrades can be a pain :)

[13:02:27]

jams:

i figure it can sit next to the zip and rev drive

[13:02:28]

jams:

s

[13:02:30]

oobe:

some usb stick just dont boot

[13:02:49]

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[13:02:57]

oobe:

but others do on same machine

[13:03:02]

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[13:03:02]

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[13:04:42]

gbee:

I've often thought about buying a USB floppy drive, even though I long ago copied over the contents of any floppies I might have wanted to keep, the disks themselves went in a mass purge a couple of years ago

[13:05:20]

jams:

pretty much the same reason i keep the zip drive around

[13:06:06]

jams:

gone through 3 drives but still using the orig disks puchased 12? years ago

[13:06:17]

jams:

still work

[13:08:07]

gbee:

somehow I avoided zip drives, a couple of times I had to borrow one but I never owned any

[13:09:37]

Beirdo:

I had a SCSI one

[13:09:43]

Beirdo:

it's long gone

[13:09:58]

jams:

scsi, ppa and now usb

[13:10:10]

jams:

ppa was a royal pain

[13:10:22]

jams:

and slow

[13:10:23]

Beirdo:

yeah

[13:11:22]

jams:

man was it slow, but really for my purpose it was the only way to go. desktops really didn't have scsi cards (and they still don't)

[13:11:38]

Beirdo:

they do if you put one in :)

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Trinity33:

i want to ask i have got haupaugge wintv-nova-s usb2 tv card its satellite receiver so i would like to know if it would work in ubuntu karmic 9.10

[13:54:09]

sphery:

the list of supported capture cards is at http://linuxtv.org/wiki/

[13:54:45]

sphery:

basically, if it's supported by V4L/DVB API's, it should work in MythTV (with only one exception I can think of--and it's not that card)

[13:54:55]

Trinity33:

u are everywhere:)

[13:55:09]

sphery:

heh, yeah :)

[13:55:13]

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[13:55:33]

sphery:

http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hauppauge_WinTV-NOVA-S-USB2

[13:56:08]

sphery:

http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/DVB-S_USB_D . . . _USB_Devices

[13:56:11]

sphery:

listed as supported

[14:00:15]

Trinity33:

<sphery> i checked using hwinfo and device 70 i see my card what to do next to install it propelly first i need a driver? or just install everything from synaptic whole mythtv?

[14:01:12]

sphery:

That I can't tell you. I've never used that card or any like it. All I can say is, "it would work in ubuntu karmic 9.10" (with proper drivers/configuration)

[14:01:22]

sphery:

that last part is the part I don't know (I don't know *buntu, either).

[14:02:16]

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[14:02:55]

Trinity33:

:( what driver do i need ? V4L/DVB ? where from i can get it? does mythtv package include that driver?

[14:03:41]

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[14:03:53]

iamlindoro:

MythTV is an application, not an OS-- we don't do drivers

[14:04:05]

iamlindoro:

Using MythTV assumes you already have a properly configured system with working capture hardware

[14:04:41]

sphery:

Trinity33: Likely if you choose to use Mythbuntu rather than Ubuntu 9.10, it will "just work."

[14:04:44]

Beirdo:

some people here MAY be able to help with configuration, but it really isn't the place :)

[14:04:47]

sphery:

http://mythbuntu.org/

[14:04:59]

Beirdo:

iamlindoro: you see my IRC FAQ updates?

[14:05:08]

iamlindoro:

Beirdo: I did, sorry, mean to say-- looks great to me

[14:05:09]

sphery:

and #mythbuntu would be a much better place to ask for help configuring that card

[14:05:11]

iamlindoro:

er meant to

[14:05:37]

Beirdo:

K. Of course, we can always add more/modify :)

[14:05:50]

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[14:05:59]

Trinity33:

i know what are u talking about <sphery> i will ask on ubuntu channel about risk or if there is anyrisk of installing mythbuntu from synaptic

[14:06:34]

Beirdo:

there's an #ubuntu-mythtv or something too, isn't there?

[14:06:48]

iamlindoro:

The former redirects to the latter

[14:06:57]

Beirdo:

heh

[14:06:58]

Beirdo:

OK

[14:08:28]

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[14:08:35]

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[14:09:32]

sphery:

Trinity33: ttbomk, installing Mythbuntu would mean that you replace your Ubuntu 9.10 OS install with a Mythbuntu 9.10 OS install. Mythbuntu is Ubuntu that's already been configured properly for MythTV.

[14:10:02]

sphery:

it's not just a package you use to install mythtv on Ubuntu--as that wouldn't have any effect on the other parts of the OS that are not configured properly for MythTV.

[14:10:27]

Beirdo:

configured "hopefully" properly :)

[14:10:41]

Beirdo:

I won't guarantee their work :)

[14:11:55]

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[14:12:25]

Trinity33:

<sphery> if i install mythbuntu from synaptic would i lose anything i got in my ubuntu at the moment? and what package from mythbuntu do i need? cos i just checked and there is many of them

[14:13:12]

Beirdo:

Trinity33: if it wants to REMOVE packages, it will tell you and ask for permission

[14:13:17]

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[14:14:20]

Beirdo:

and if you want help with mythbuntu in specific, you've already been told the channel(s) that are more likely to be helpful

[14:14:27]

sphery:

Trinity33: mythbuntu is the distro, not a package

[14:14:43]

sphery:

more info in #mythbuntu (whether you choose to use mythbuntu or ubuntu)

[14:16:12]

Trinity33:

i know thats why im asking if i install mythbuntu will i lose anything i got in ubuntu at the moment? and in mythbuntu will i have the same options like in ubuntu i mean writing scripts play flv using pentesting etc

[14:16:42]

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[14:17:06]

Beirdo:

!trout Trinity33 #mythbuntu

[14:17:06]

** MythLogBot slaps Trinity33 with a #mythbuntu trout on behalf of Beirdo... **

[14:17:24]

sphery:

Trinity33: you'll lose your configuration that doesn't work with MythTV and get a working MythTV system?

[14:17:25]

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[14:17:35]

randomuser:

I'm shopping for a capture device on newegg. can anyone offer guidance?

[14:17:50]

sphery:

randomuser: http://linuxtv.org/wiki/

[14:18:29]

sphery:

you may get some recommendations in here, but you'll need to provide a lot more information (about TV standard, signal source (cable, over-the-air), ...)

[14:19:33]

randomuser:

sure

[14:19:50]

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[14:21:18]

AndyCap:

O_o

[14:21:44]

Beirdo:

that didn't mean run along :)

[14:23:26]

sphery:

heh

[14:23:31]

sphery:

I tend to scare people away...

[14:24:38]

AndyCap:

I want to learn!

[14:24:40]

AndyCap:

:P

[14:25:07]

sphery:

:)

[14:25:17]

iamlindoro:

Contrast that with people who would sit here for hours arguing with Dagmar

[14:25:22]

iamlindoro:

the world is a mixed up place

[14:25:57]

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[14:32:41]

mag0o:

any chance of getting 8115 looked at? i created a patch last night that fixes the issue on my machines.

[14:32:53]

** wagnerrp is looking currently **

[14:32:59]

mag0o:

Ooo :)

[14:33:38]

wagnerrp:

paul really likes his globals

[14:34:17]

wagnerrp:

and hates classes

[14:34:39]

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[14:36:17]

mag0o:

to find the issue, i basically put a bunch of write() in there to spit stuff out to the logs so i could see what was going on

[14:36:39]

wagnerrp:

basically, all of his sql statements are wrong

[14:36:41]

mag0o:

and since the db didn't store the full path name for the videos, the query would return 0 results

[14:36:58]

wagnerrp:

and it was never updated for storage groups

[14:37:08]

wagnerrp:

local content is stored with the full path name

[14:37:17]

wagnerrp:

storage group content is stored relative to the base of the SG

[14:37:39]

mag0o:

hmm, so there needs to be some sort of SG checking in there

[14:37:53]

mag0o:

so while my patch works for me, it wouldn't work for someone with out SG

[14:37:57]

mag0o:

I'm guessing

[14:38:01]

wagnerrp:

correct

[14:38:52]

mag0o:

but, without SG, it will probably work without patches b/c the full path would be stored in the db

[14:39:01]

mag0o:

so, logic time

[14:39:13]

iamlindoro:

!seen logic

[14:39:13]

MythLogBot:

logic has not been seen here

[14:39:21]

wagnerrp:

dont worry about it, ill throw a patch up later today

[14:39:26]

wagnerrp:

with a number of other fixes

[14:39:33]

wagnerrp:

(the sql statement stuff)

[14:39:39]

mag0o:

oh, ok :) thanks

[14:41:02]

sphery:

wagnerrp: fwiw, I think Paul inherited that code from the old mythburn project that someone else wrote and abandoned.

[14:41:56]

wagnerrp:

ok... someone else likes globals and doesnt like classes

[14:42:07]

wagnerrp:

and did their queries all wron

[14:42:29]

sphery:

heh

[14:43:06]

wagnerrp:

man... they didnt even do them consistently

[14:43:17]

wagnerrp:

theres at least three different programming styles at play here

[14:44:33]

sphery:

http://mythburn.sourceforge.net/ + http://sourceforge.net/projects/mythburn/ says it's spit2k1

[14:45:18]

sphery:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MythBurn needs to die

[14:46:31]

sphery:

editing pages that link it just killed my firefox

[14:46:36]

** sphery hates javascript **

[14:47:47]

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[14:51:54]

sphery:

Does the mythburn stuff still work with current mythweb?

[14:52:11]

sphery:

I'm guessing no. After all, mythbuntu made their own mythexport for that reason, right?

[14:53:16]

mag0o:

i haven't tried it through mythweb, and didn't even know it existed

[14:53:27]

mag0o:

or, if i did know, i forgot

[14:54:03]

sphery:

I'd like to remove all references to it in the wiki (since we have mytharchive, now), but http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Creating_a_DVD_with_a_menu and http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MythBurnInstallation imply it's usable with mythweb

[14:54:47]

sphery:

last edit on MythBurnInstallation was Mar 2007 and Creating a DVD with a menu was Apr 2007

[14:56:34]

xris:

sphery: fine with me. I'm all for cleaning up the wiki.

[14:56:52]

** Beirdo hands sphery the windex **

[14:58:48]

wagnerrp:

mag0o: that was the only call that gave you a problem? it worked besides that?

[15:01:36]

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[15:02:09]

wagnerrp:

mag0o: im just going to change it to a 'WHERE filename LIKE "%path/to/file"', which should pick up both types of content

[15:06:41]

mag0o:

yes wagnerrp

[15:07:02]

mag0o:

changing that one line using SG, i am able to archive videos and recordings

[15:07:33]

wagnerrp:

im surprised its able to find the content

[15:07:50]

wagnerrp:

do you have a VideoStartupDir listed as the same path as the storage group?

[15:08:14]

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[15:08:15]

sphery:

wagnerrp: I'm pretty sure (based on the DB update) that even the local non-SG videos are stored with partial path (relative to the videos directory)

[15:08:24]

sphery:

so wouldn't it be the same for local or sg?

[15:08:59]

mag0o:

select title from videometadata where filename = '/sg/defined/path/to/videos/video.avi' returns 0 rows

[15:09:11]

mag0o:

select title from videometadata where filename = 'video.avi' returns 1 row

[15:09:17]

wagnerrp:

you would have to ask iamlindoro, but last time i used local content, i thought it was the full path

[15:09:33]

iamlindoro:

local content is full path, indeed

[15:09:53]

wagnerrp:

so the script shouldnt work anyway

[15:11:26]

mag0o:

wagnerrp: all of my frontends have VideoStartupDir set to the SG path

[15:12:02]

mag0o:

that being said, my successful archive was run directly on the backend, not a frontend

[15:12:12]

mag0o:

so now that I see why, it may still not work on a frontend

[15:12:19]

wagnerrp:

but local content is a full path already, line 1596 shouldnt exist

[15:14:06]

mag0o:

no, if you add write( "Filename is: %s " % file.attributes["filename"].value

[15:14:10]

mag0o:

you just get video.avi

[15:14:32]

mag0o:

at least i did on my backend

[15:14:51]

sphery:

iamlindoro: are you positive? Based on http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/21820 (which calls StorageGroup::GetRelativePathname() on all non-dvd: files) and http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/21819/tr . . . agegroup.cpp (which first looks for a path starting with one matching a dir from sg's, then matching a dir from VideoStartupDir and removes the matched start portion), it says that all videos will ...

[15:14:57]

sphery:

... have the VideoStartupDir stuff removed--even without video SG's

[15:15:35]

iamlindoro:

I'm positive

[15:15:40]

sphery:

Only reason I remember is because I modified it to supprot the colon-separated paths at http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/21924

[15:16:03]

sphery:

so why do we remove the VideoStartupDir stuff from the path in the db update, then?

[15:16:24]

sphery:

oh, that's only filemarkup

[15:16:25]

sphery:

nvm

[15:16:43]

sphery:

we really need to get rid of non-SG file support

[15:17:46]

wagnerrp:

mag0o: looks like that filename is something provided by the XML config file fed to the script

[15:18:00]

wagnerrp:

so apparently mytharchive does its own thing

[15:19:53]

wagnerrp:

i thought having VideoStartupDir defined as the same thing as the SG was a broken configuration

[15:20:21]

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[15:20:45]

wagnerrp:

and they way mythburn handles that value, its horribly broken when multiple directories are defined

[15:20:54]

jvs is now known as jodu

[15:21:12]

jodu is now known as johd

[15:21:32]

** sphery wonders how long it will be before wagnerrp decides to go all out and rewrite the scripts to use the Python bindings **

[15:23:12]

Beirdo:

:)

[15:23:25]

Beirdo:

is it beer o'clock yet?

[15:23:35]

kormoc:

it's always beer o'clock somewhere!

[15:23:35]

mag0o:

heck, i was trying to figure out how to get it to use nuvexport instead

[15:23:37]

wagnerrp:

sphery: i couldnt do it

[15:23:42]

wagnerrp:

that thing is a complete mess

[15:23:46]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: sure you could!

[15:23:47]

mag0o:

agreed

[15:23:53]

kormoc:

just might take awhile...

[15:23:56]

mag0o:

s/rewrite/start all over/

[15:24:00]

wagnerrp:

i wouldnt want to touch it unless i were to rewrite the whole thing from scratch

[15:24:19]

Beirdo:

do it ;) Thanks for volunteering :) hehe

[15:24:25]

** Beirdo is being silly of course **

[15:24:31]

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[15:24:36]

kaktuspalme:

hi there

[15:24:50]

kaktuspalme:

does anyone know which key i've to press to view a senderlist?

[15:24:59]

wagnerrp:

'senderlist'?

[15:25:02]

iamlindoro:

I keep wishing that there was a libhandbrake

[15:25:11]

iamlindoro:

I'd rewrite the MythVideo DVD rip stuff from scratch

[15:25:22]

iamlindoro:

but in absence of one library to rule them all, I don't

[15:25:39]

Beirdo:

libjustdoit?

[15:25:46]

iamlindoro:

heh

[15:25:47]

kaktuspalme:

hmm, i don't know the word in english TV Transmitters?

[15:25:50]

kaktuspalme:

ah Channels

[15:25:52]

kaktuspalme:

Channellist

[15:31:26]

wagnerrp:

's' brings up the program guide, if thats what youre looking for

[15:32:02]

wagnerrp:

a list of channels, and what shows they are airing for the next several hours

[15:36:58]

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[15:37:27]

kaktuspalme:

wagnerrp, if you have 100 channels the list is a bit unclear

[15:37:54]

iamlindoro:

You can create channel groups and brose only your favorites

[15:37:57]

iamlindoro:

browse

[15:39:20]

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[15:39:49]

dustybin:

http://www.bradcolbow.com/archive.php/?p=205

[15:41:23]

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[15:53:27]

kaktuspalme:

i just installed mythbuntu, is it possible that mythbuntu isn't really stable

[15:53:46]

wagnerrp:

what version?

[15:53:50]

kaktuspalme:

9.10

[15:53:59]

wagnerrp:

have you updated mythtv?

[15:54:08]

kaktuspalme:

i've updated the whole system

[15:54:08]

wagnerrp:

9.10 shipped with a pre-release version of mythtv 0.22

[15:54:31]

kaktuspalme:

just a standard mythbuntu installation with all the mythbuntu updates installeed

[15:54:54]

kaktuspalme:

as an example switching throught the dvb-s channels can crash mythtv-backend

[15:55:18]

wagnerrp:

a pastebin of the backend logs would help considerably with that

[15:55:50]

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[15:59:04]

kaktuspalme:

wagnerrp, 2010-03–03 20:58:45.519 DTVSM(/dev/dvb/adapter0/frontend0) Error: Wrong PMT; pmt->pn(9132) desired(9111)

[15:59:04]

kaktuspalme:

100x times in the log

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[16:43:24]

Trinity33:

hi i installed mythtv and when i open it and click the watch tv button it says i need to first run mythtv setup how to run it? from shell? cos when i normally start mythtv there is no option for devices scanning cant see it

[16:43:49]

high-rez:

run mythtv-setup

[16:44:20]

high-rez:

you'll define capture cards to use, channel scanning etc etc in there.

[16:45:32]

wagnerrp:

first, you need to read the documentation

[16:45:48]

wagnerrp:

mythtv is not something you can easily figure out on your own

[16:45:58]

Trinity33:

what card i should chose? in capture card setup there is no haupaugge nova-s usb2

[16:46:17]

wagnerrp:

that card is a DVB-S device

[16:46:52]

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[16:47:07]

Trinity33:

there is showing soemthing dvb dtv capture card 9v3.x) it will be that one?

[16:47:15]

** Beirdo hands wagnerrp a documentation trout :) **

[16:47:20]

wagnerrp:

please read the documentation

[16:47:29]

wagnerrp:

!trout Trinity33 documentation

[16:47:29]

** MythLogBot slaps Trinity33 with a documentation trout on behalf of wagnerrp... **

[16:47:54]

high-rez:

Maybe, you really need to read some docs. Myth is a little complicated to configure but pretty cool once you have it up.

[16:48:07]

Beirdo:

it's really worth the trouble, don't worry

[16:48:24]

wagnerrp:

says someone who hasnt run mythtv in three years

[16:48:42]

wagnerrp:

:)

[16:48:43]

Beirdo:

hey! I have so... for the past 2 days :)

[16:49:04]

Beirdo:

and I remember installing 0.14... so...

[16:49:05]

Beirdo:

heh

[16:49:20]

wagnerrp:

i think i started around 0.17

[16:49:22]

high-rez:

I'm still running 0.19 – because upgrading is too hard.

[16:49:23]

iamlindoro:

Hah, I remember myth around then too

[16:49:32]

** high-rez ducks **

[16:49:34]

Beirdo:

boy have we come a LONG way

[16:49:35]

wagnerrp:

never really got it working right until 0.18

[16:49:37]

iamlindoro:

With my sexay WinTV card

[16:49:50]

Beirdo:

oooh, framemangler

[16:49:52]

iamlindoro:

back when the card of choice was anything bt878

[16:50:14]

Beirdo:

and ivtv was a "this kinda almost works"

[16:50:14]

high-rez:

Btw, whoever mentioned blue abstract to me? Good lookin' out. Its friggin pretty.

[16:50:24]

iamlindoro:

Back when Pap Hauppauge was still knockin' Mam Hauppauge up with baby PVR-250

[16:50:26]

Trinity33:

come on u want me to read 1250 pages ? cant u just tell me ? need little help :) just wasted 3 weeks to configure my sound card its working now and u asking me this time to waste another 3 months before i make mty tv card working? :( why? cant u just tell me? hey trin u do that first u need do this and that etc and it will work

[16:50:53]

Trinity33:

so how it will be? help or i have to shoot myself?

[16:50:54]

wagnerrp:

Trinity33: what distro are you running?

[16:50:55]

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[16:51:00]

Beirdo:

Trinity33: read it. you're asking us to type out the contents of what already was written

[16:51:02]

paulc_ is now known as Guest81029

[16:51:03]

Trinity33:

ubuntu 9.10 32

[16:51:08]

Guest81029 is now known as cockney

[16:51:10]

iamlindoro:

Trinity33: The documentation isn't nearly 1200 pages, and the length of the documentation is exactly what we mean-- Myth is *complex* and we're not paid to support people who refuse to read the docs

[16:51:12]

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[16:51:34]

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[16:51:55]

mag0o:

wagnerrp: trying out that new patch

[16:52:01]

Trinity33:

dont want to install mythbuntu cos i will lose few things so i would rather install mythtv and configure it

[16:52:14]

iamlindoro:

Which is fine-- but that means you get to read the documentation

[16:52:21]

wagnerrp:

mag0o: understand that neither of those should be committed in their current form

[16:52:33]

iamlindoro:

You are getting free support, but the courteous thing to do is meet us halfway and at least make some effort to understand on your own

[16:52:39]

mag0o:

right

[16:53:05]

mag0o:

SG considerations need to be taken into account, correct?

[16:53:21]

Trinity33:

so lets do it card type dvb dtv capture card (v3.x) then next section is about dvb device numebr what i should put over there?

[16:53:24]

wagnerrp:

mag0o: yes, as mentioned, its a fluke that it happens to work in your current scenario

[16:53:32]

iamlindoro:

Trinity33: No.

[16:53:40]

iamlindoro:

Trinity33: Please read the setup portions of the documentation

[16:53:44]

high-rez:

trinity: Then configure your card (dvb card, make sure you have /dev/dvb/adapter0), add video source, connect it with input connections then channel scan.

[16:54:36]

Trinity33:

<iamlindoro> u are really nice man:) very helpful i love u already

[16:55:10]

iamlindoro:

Trinity33: It's not about loving us-- this is just the way it works-- having the channel to help you doesn't excuse you from reading the documentation

[16:55:18]

iamlindoro:

IRC is a last resort, not a first one

[16:55:37]

iamlindoro:

so again, I/we politely ask that you read the documentation and take a shot at configuring things yourself once you have done so

[16:56:02]

Trinity33:

ok im going back to microsoft

[16:56:17]

Trinity33:

just kidding:)

[16:56:21]

justinh:

bye then

[16:56:26]

Trinity33:

ok will read it hahaha

[16:56:42]

Trinity33:

so see you in 3 months

[16:56:46]

justinh:

you could always ask for your money back if you still can't get it working

[16:56:56]

wagnerrp:

basically, were not paid enough to walk every single mythtv user through an installation, start to finish

[16:57:03]

wagnerrp:

thats why the documentation is there

[16:57:04]

Beirdo:

if it takes ya 3 months to read, seeya in 3 months :)

[16:57:16]

Trinity33:

:)

[16:57:19]

cockney:

this helped me a lot http://parker1.co.uk/mythtv_ubuntu.php

[16:57:20]

Beirdo:

it shouldn't be bad

[16:57:25]

iamlindoro:

and for what it's worth, emotional blackmail doesn't work

[16:57:32]

iamlindoro:

we would love it if most Myth users went back to windows

[16:57:34]

high-rez:

They're paid to belittle you once you get almost across the finish line and have that one thing you can't figure out. :)

[16:57:35]

** high-rez ducks **

[16:57:36]

iamlindoro:

would be nice and quiet

[16:57:39]

justinh:

always ironic that in the time we spend arguing why we don't give people hand-holding walkthroughs, we could probably have done it by then

[16:57:56]

Trinity33:

ok i will ask just one question would haupaugge nova-s usb2 work with mythtv?

[16:57:58]

Beirdo:

justinh: go ahead :)

[16:58:06]

justinh:

cockney: no! Man, that guide is just so wrong on so many levels now. It used to be on my recommend list but not anymore

[16:58:20]

Beirdo:

if it works with linux, it should work with mythtv

[16:58:22]

wagnerrp:

Trinity33: if linuxtv.org lists it as a supported device, it will almost certainly work in mythtv

[16:58:25]

justinh:

Trinity33: yes, assuming you get the drivers working

[16:58:38]

justinh:

test the hardware outside mythtv first, too

[16:58:40]

high-rez:

Trinity33: If it works with linux then it'll work with myth. It's dvb-s – sop as I said earlier make sure you have /dev/dvb/adapter0 !

[16:59:09]

justinh:

and you *really* need to find a howto guide for dvb-s, cos it's the most involved of all setups

[16:59:36]

justinh:

you can almost blunder your way through the setup to get it working with any other type of card but not dvb-s

[16:59:49]

justinh:

cockney: OI! No unsolicited PMs please

[16:59:49]

high-rez:

It's not that involved. Heck, now that myth auto scans all of the other transponders after you manually scan the first its prety straight forward.

[16:59:57]

Trinity33:

ubuntu is something i like to spend time with im not specialist etc everythign i know learned myself there is still many things i dont understnd :) so what /dev/dvb/adapter0 mean and how shoudl i check it out?

[17:00:09]

cockney:

hmm forgive me new to IRC

[17:00:12]

cockney:

first time

[17:00:27]

Beirdo:

Trinity33: documentation :)

[17:00:41]

justinh:

once upon a time people would come round to your house & set fire to it as you sleep for that kind of thing. Now folks just yell politely

[17:01:18]

wagnerrp:

i just ignore them

[17:01:25]

wagnerrp:

makes the feel sad and unwanted

[17:01:52]

justinh:

I had * msg on ignore once.. wonder why it's not now

[17:02:17]

Beirdo:

justinh: yer my antisocial hero :)

[17:02:22]

justinh:

used to have all the matrix nicks on ignore too :)

[17:02:50]

justinh:

*neo* etc, oh and *guru*, cos you always know they ain't

[17:03:06]

Beirdo:

and *uber*? :)

[17:03:30]

Beirdo:

the only way that one is correct would be ubermoron and the like

[17:03:54]

justinh:

yeah seems the more self referential the nick is..

[17:03:59]

Beirdo:

and anyone who identifies themselves like that needs #therapy

[17:04:09]

cockney:

there are several people at work interested in my myth setup and I often point them to http://parker1.co.uk/mythtv_ubuntu.php to help them. what's the best resource to point people to these days or is mythbuntu the way to go?

[17:04:35]

justinh:

cockney: official mythbuntu docs, ubuntu community docs.. they all stand more chance of being good practise & up to date

[17:04:46]

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[17:04:53]

Beirdo:

http://www.mythtv.org/ would be a good starting point :)

[17:04:55]

wagnerrp:

one of the pre-packages distros is definitely the way to start out with mythtv

[17:04:58]

high-rez:

I think the mythtv wiki is pretty good.

[17:05:11]

Beirdo:

and then after they decide they want it, THEN a distro

[17:05:19]

cockney:

i found parker spot on when I first used it (8.04/.21)

[17:05:25]

cockney:

up and running in no time

[17:05:38]

Beirdo:

that way they understand the concepts as they read the docs :)

[17:05:40]

justinh:

me too, and then it got way out of date & a big messy mess

[17:05:53]

justinh:

it might be caught up again but erm.. hmm

[17:06:21]

Beirdo:

justinh: someone in another channel was heard to say "stupid git" not long ago

[17:06:34]

AndyCap:

Beirdo: revision control fail?

[17:06:46]

Beirdo:

referring to the version control system :) but reminded me of the Brits...

[17:06:50]

Beirdo:

yup

[17:07:04]

justinh:

heheheh

[17:07:07]

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[17:07:11]

Beirdo:

Linus picked a great name for it

[17:07:56]

justinh:

I coulda picked a better one ;-)

[17:08:13]

Beirdo:

but is it publishable in mixed company? :)

[17:08:20]

justinh:

still, rather that than the daft reciprocal acronyms people use

[17:08:23]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: didnt that patch actually show up on one of the lists a couple weeks ago

[17:08:59]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: yes, I just couldn't be bothered to/was too busy with real life at the time to grab it, apply it, test it, etc.

[17:09:43]

Beirdo:

hey, who said you are allowed a real life? :)

[17:10:00]

AndyCap:

Hmm, nobody invented a backronym for git?

[17:10:07]

Beirdo:

I thought we were supposed to be cybergeeks :)

[17:10:17]

Beirdo:

AndyCap: not that I've heard

[17:10:38]

AndyCap:

"I'm an egotistical bastard, and I name all my projects after myself. First Linux, now git."

[17:10:40]

Beirdo:

Apparently Linus said he tends to name his projects self-referentially

[17:10:42]

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[17:10:45]

Beirdo:

yup

[17:11:03]

AndyCap:

meh http://git.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/GitFaq#W . . . t.27_name.3F

[17:11:09]

Beirdo:

I think MS management would agree with that

[17:11:09]

AndyCap:

nothing good.

[17:13:43]

justinh:

well that settles it. I won't be able to talk about my next theme cos it'll be called something decidedly un-family friendly :D

[17:14:11]

Beirdo:

hehe

[17:14:24]

Beirdo:

now why would ya wanna do that? :)

[17:14:27]

kormoc:

Call it "Go die in a fire" and use flash with animated flames and stuff!

[17:14:28]

justinh:

and anyone asking about it by name here will get kicked :D

[17:14:30]

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[17:14:34]

Beirdo:

heh

[17:15:06]

kormoc:

"You don't understand the brilliance I can bring to the project with animated flames!"

[17:15:18]

justinh:

kormoc: I released a roaring fire pack for glass-wide once upon a time

[17:16:06]

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[17:16:17]

justinh:

it was awful though.. like the rest of the junk but heh

[17:16:58]

Beirdo:

sounds good to me. :)

[17:17:12]

iamlindoro:

Does anyone still have the link to that guy's fire theme mockups?

[17:17:13]

Beirdo:

can we have one with a simulated fireplace inset?

[17:17:21]

iamlindoro:

the guy Chutt kicked from #mythtv

[17:17:34]

iamlindoro:

after he told him to f off

[17:17:35]

iamlindoro:

hahah

[17:17:47]

wagnerrp:

wow... kicked from #mythtv

[17:17:50]

Beirdo:

or can someone make an mpeg of a fireplace burning to use as a "test tuner" :)

[17:17:54]

wagnerrp:

ive never seen such a thing

[17:17:55]

Beirdo:

hehe

[17:18:09]

justinh:

still have all my fireplace pngs somewhere

[17:18:12]

iamlindoro:

sphery probably has logs that go back to then

[17:18:21]

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[17:18:22]

kormoc:

what logs doesn't sphery have?

[17:18:23]

iamlindoro:

I checked six or so months ago and the guy's mockups were still there

[17:18:31]

iamlindoro:

but don't have the link any more

[17:19:54]

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[17:21:09]

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[17:21:52]

Beirdo:

wish I could help ya, iamlindoro

[17:21:54]

Beirdo:

sorry

[17:21:59]

iamlindoro:

no worries

[17:22:04]

kormoc:

they were epic awesome

[17:22:04]

iamlindoro:

I think all he had mocked up was MythGame

[17:22:42]

Beirdo:

too bad his attitude wasn't compatible with the project then

[17:23:01]

iamlindoro:

kormoc is being facetious :)

[17:23:07]

Beirdo:

hehe

[17:23:11]

Beirdo:

as always

[17:23:44]

iamlindoro:

Maybe I'll write a companion OSD for justinh's GDIAF-wide

[17:23:46]

Beirdo:

Mr. Needs-A-Kleenex is really making me mad again

[17:23:48]

iamlindoro:

KOIP-osd

[17:24:02]

iamlindoro:

(Knife over IP)

[17:24:11]

justinh:

lol

[17:24:28]

Beirdo:

got a coworker who has a runny nose and won't blow it... Hoooornk every 15s or so

[17:24:43]

silverdulcet:

Has anyone experienced problems when using jump points from a folder within Mythvideo? eg. I'm in the Chuck/Season 2 folder and I press the key/remote button for the Upcoming Recordings jump point, instead of taking me there it takes me to the top level of MythVideo. If I press it a 2nd time nothing happens. When I press stop to exit MythVideo it takes me directly to Upcoming Recordings.

[17:24:56]

** Beirdo eyes the kleenex box on his desk and wonders if he can nail the twit in the head **

[17:25:05]

wagnerrp:

silverdulcet: there are known issues with jumppoints

[17:25:14]

wagnerrp:

although i believe they were fixed several months ago in trunk

[17:25:48]

silverdulcet:

wagnerrp: thanks, glad it isn't something I did.

[17:26:36]

wagnerrp:

looks like http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/7322

[17:27:10]

iamlindoro:

Ugh, looks like the dev who applied that ticket didn't backport it. What a douche.

[17:27:22]

iamlindoro:

Guy should be stabbed in the face

[17:27:34]

Beirdo:

heh

[17:27:38]

justinh:

what happened to the family friendly, touchy feely?

[17:27:46]

Beirdo:

I didn't do it, man

[17:27:51]

justinh:

or was that just til you got rid of the junk?

[17:27:51]

iamlindoro:

justinh: It's okay when it's self-abuse :)

[17:27:51]

wagnerrp:

silverdulcet: yeah, no one around here likes robertm

[17:28:06]

iamlindoro:

yeah, he's universally hated

[17:28:15]

iamlindoro:

He threw out like the two most helpful guys here

[17:28:16]

Beirdo:

especially by mchou

[17:28:38]

justinh:

emmcee who? ;-)

[17:28:39]

gbee:

oh, glad it's not just me then

[17:28:50]

iamlindoro:

hah

[17:28:54]

Beirdo:

nice one, justinh :)

[17:29:10]

justinh:

that juski guy.. oh man the hate emails I used to send him to make him stop putting those awful themes out

[17:29:13]

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[17:29:23]

justinh:

finally worked, but do I ever hear the end of it? ;-)

[17:29:27]

Beirdo:

heh

[17:29:40]

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[17:29:48]

** iamlindoro fires off an e-mail to justinh for not forward-porting bluetube **

[17:29:50]

Beirdo:

I am Cornholio!

[17:30:03]

iamlindoro:

why do you hate freedom? You just don't get FOSS

[17:30:09]

Beirdo:

I miss Beavis & Butthead... what's wrong with me

[17:30:23]

iamlindoro:

Everyone knows community is abot you doing what I say, and taking all my suggestions, and applying all my patches, no matter how absurd

[17:30:34]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: yeah... so when is that python rewrite of mythweb going to get released?

[17:30:37]

iamlindoro:

Oh me? I can't learn to program, I have a life

[17:30:42]

Beirdo:

whoah. who let Linus in the room?

[17:30:43]

justinh:

Beirdo: me too

[17:30:58]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: Ask kormoc, he's been working night and day at it

[17:31:06]

Beirdo:

python?

[17:31:10]

kormoc:

It's true, my fingers are worn to the bone!

[17:31:16]

Beirdo:

hehe

[17:31:20]

kormoc:

there's blood shorting out the laptop as we speak!

[17:31:26]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: yeah, a couple years back, someone demanded kormoc rewrite mythweb in python

[17:31:31]

Beirdo:

heheh

[17:31:41]

wagnerrp:

because thats the way FOSS works

[17:31:43]

Beirdo:

yeah, I'll get right on that... BONK

[17:32:27]

Beirdo:

FOSS means the REQUESTOR is free to use python to recreate the wheel :) Some people :)

[17:32:45]

kormoc:

yeah, he was horribly upset that I wouldn't do it

[17:32:50]

Beirdo:

wow

[17:32:59]

justinh:

sometimes I think it'd have a much better ring to it (FOSS) if it had a letter L in it

[17:32:59]

Beirdo:

when's the RoR version coming out?

[17:33:08]

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[17:33:14]

iamlindoro:

I think I'mma get me a new PS3 game on the way home

[17:33:19]

kormoc:

but not nearly as bad as the one who threatened to sue over mythweb not working on lighttp

[17:33:19]

iamlindoro:

to quench my desire for shinies

[17:33:22]

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[17:33:24]

Beirdo:

we should be able to select which mythweb we want...

[17:33:25]

Beirdo:

heh

[17:33:30]

Beirdo:

sue?!

[17:33:44]

Beirdo:

on what grounds, may I ask? mental retardation?

[17:33:51]

kormoc:

"It doesn't work! That's false advertising!"

[17:33:55]

Beirdo:

or on some sort of entitlement?

[17:34:02]

Beirdo:

oh please

[17:34:14]

wagnerrp:

a little from column A, a little from column B

[17:34:16]

Beirdo:

it's under GPL which states "no warranty whatsoever"

[17:34:23]

gbee:

Beirdo: no that's what we all thought, but apparently we had it backwards, FOSS means that we have to listen to the community and implement the ideas they have, if there is a majority of community members who want a feature and we fail to implement it then we're summarily executed ... or something

[17:34:32]

Beirdo:

good luck winning that one, dude :)

[17:34:39]

Beirdo:

gbee: wow :)

[17:34:59]

iamlindoro:

gbee: Speaking of which, since Terra has been voted out of the default theme spot, when will you have the new one ready? ;)

[17:35:05]

Beirdo:

hehe, they can fork it and do what they want :)

[17:35:32]

Beirdo:

I wish em luck

[17:35:34]

kormoc:

Yeah, I've gotten my fair share of crazies

[17:35:43]

high-rez:

*cough*blue-abstract*cough*

[17:35:49]

Beirdo:

you are a crazy-magnet

[17:35:59]

gbee:

Beirdo: but they are too busy to learn how to program, that's what they pay us for! ... oh wait, something's wrong with that statement

[17:36:00]

kormoc:

especially in ladies!

[17:36:01]

iamlindoro:

blue-abstract is fairly unlikely to become a default theme

[17:36:10]

high-rez:

Its soo purdy.

[17:36:20]

iamlindoro:

between the illegally obtained images and the theft of all the widgets from.. well.. me.

[17:36:29]

Beirdo:

gbee: hehehe. Feature requests are fine and dandy... but *request* not *demand* :)

[17:36:43]

high-rez:

Illegally obtained images? Theft of widgets? What?

[17:37:03]

iamlindoro:

He uses trademarked images owned by Dolby, among others

[17:37:04]

** gbee ducks into the fox hole **

[17:37:09]

justinh:

taking without consent, etc

[17:37:18]

high-rez:

Ahh, didn't know.

[17:37:18]

iamlindoro:

and took all my Graphite widgets to make his own (which isn't theft since they're GPL, but it is lazy)

[17:37:19]

justinh:

using without crediting, etc

[17:37:40]

Beirdo:

I hereby demand that mythtv go out and purchase the best tuner available and install it for me... Make it so!

[17:37:42]

high-rez:

I don't think the GPL requires attribution ;)

[17:37:55]

justinh:

yeah but it's common courtesy

[17:38:02]

iamlindoro:

Top that off with the fact that it's basically default-wide with some minor layout cleanups, and the technician in me isn't very impressed

[17:38:02]

Beirdo:

it doesn't, but common sense does

[17:38:04]

AndyCap:

there's being right and there's being nice

[17:38:17]

iamlindoro:

All that said, he's done a fine job on it

[17:38:26]

iamlindoro:

It's just not likely to ever be a core theme mostly for the trademark issues

[17:38:37]

Beirdo:

yeah, makes sense

[17:38:51]

justinh:

work the trademarked icons over a bit.. and maybe.. ?

[17:39:11]

high-rez:

Yeah, that's fair enough. Its a very visually appealing theme though. The text is just a little too small – i find myself asking my wife to read whats on the screen.

[17:39:42]

justinh:

all the new themes I've seen won't work on my teevees

[17:39:47]

justinh:

aitch dee

[17:39:47]

silverdulcet:

did you guys see this guys diagram? http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1418182

[17:39:50]

silverdulcet:

;-p

[17:39:57]

iamlindoro:

There is just no way at all to appease everyone with a theme

[17:40:07]

AndyCap:

high-rez: ironic considering your nick. :P

[17:40:26]

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[17:40:34]

iamlindoro:

Everyones going to have *some* great big omplaint that they take to the forums and use as a reason to call your hundreds of hours of work "atrocious," or "ugly," or "repulsive" or whatever

[17:40:46]

wagnerrp:

silverdulcet: that man is a crackhead

[17:40:56]

justinh:

I only got negative press by personal email :-\

[17:40:58]

silverdulcet:

wagnerrp: heh, thought someone would enjoy that...

[17:41:08]

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[17:41:21]

high-rez:

AndyCap: Well yeah, I uhh got this nick when I was like 12 yrs old on efnet. :) my vision was ok back then.

[17:41:51]

silverdulcet:

I think he missed the point of mythtv, just run ethernet and your set, why do you have to run 3 types of audio out from the backend?

[17:42:12]

AndyCap:

hdmi in is also fail. :P

[17:42:18]

sphery:

iamlindoro: flaming flash stuff was at http://www.svachon.com/catapult/1.jpg (and several others) with more available at http://www.svachon.com/catapult/ . Now all just redirect to the main page which doesn't seem to have any info on it.

[17:42:30]

sphery:

seems he took it down

[17:42:45]

iamlindoro:

How appropriate, he fought like a cow

[17:42:52]

wagnerrp:

silverdulcet: it *can* be done, but it will forever be a complete pain to set up

[17:42:59]

iamlindoro:

(Monkey Island and Last name joke!)

[17:43:37]

silverdulcet:

iamlindoro: not that I don't appreciate the work people put into themes, but I find it easiest to find the one with the least problems and things I don't like about it.

[17:44:23]

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[17:44:26]

iamlindoro:

silverdulcet: Choice is everyone's prerogative. Getting online and using words you would never dare to use to the author's face is not.

[17:44:46]

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[17:45:05]

iamlindoro:

If you don't like someone's work, you don't have to use it. It does *not* grant you a license to talk about what garbage it is when you couldn't come close yourself

[17:45:41]

fryfrog:

iamlindoro: to be perfectly honest, anyone can say anything about anything :/

[17:45:51]

high-rez:

There is context to this conversation that I'm missing. ;)

[17:45:52]

iamlindoro:

Can != has a right to

[17:45:57]

fryfrog:

it isn't the *nice* thing to do

[17:46:15]

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[17:46:35]

high-rez:

I think that goes ack to courtesy...

[17:50:20]

gbee:

internet makes stupid people feel very brave

[17:50:36]

Beirdo:

:)

[17:50:39]

Beirdo:

aye

[17:50:50]

wagnerrp:

i think penny-arcade put it best

[17:51:01]

wagnerrp:

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19/

[17:51:09]

** sphery is disappointed to learn that The Englishman Who Went Up a Hill But Came Down a Mountain ( http://www.themoviedb.org/movie/10612 ) may not have been a true story **

[17:51:16]

sphery:

gbee is always raining on my parades

[17:51:39]

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[17:52:02]

gbee:

heh

[17:52:31]

** iamlindoro awards sphery the "Obscure reference of the day award." Otherwise known as "The Nerdie." **

[17:53:17]

iamlindoro:

and the obscure reference was *annotated*

[17:53:30]

sphery:

heh

[17:53:32]

gbee:

the highest point in wales can be reached by a mountain train ... kinda spoils the achievement of walking up there

[17:53:43]

sphery:

hey, I really saw that movie and thought it was based on a true story

[17:54:22]

gbee:

it would be nice if it were true :)

[17:54:39]

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[17:54:49]

Beirdo:

"based on a true story" = "completely made it up and used one original name"

[17:54:58]

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[17:55:03]

Beirdo:

Hollywood translation filter

[17:55:14]

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[17:55:28]

iamlindoro:

Sigh, I love when people come and ask a (non development related) question in the dev channel, get an answer, and then go and post the same question to one of the numbskull Myth forums

[17:55:29]

sphery:

basically, the people in the area always called the hill a mountain, but then the gov sent a surveyor to find the height and they found it was like 2 feet short, so they people all carried rocks and dirt to the top and made it higher so it could be declared a mountain according to the legal definition

[17:55:39]

iamlindoro:

"Hmm, these fine folks might know more than the devs do"

[17:55:42]

sphery:

spoilers ^^^

[17:56:14]

iamlindoro:

I don't think the spoiler tag works that way

[17:56:20]

Beirdo:

hehe

[17:56:27]

iamlindoro:

Hey, remember that thing I just told you? Yeah, that was a spoiler.

[17:56:42]

sphery:

:)

[17:56:44]

jduggan:

sphery: i live not too far from that hill

[17:57:02]

jduggan:

sphery: and my friend from college comes from the village by it

[17:57:10]

sphery:

iamlindoro: where the forum post for the "I don't like the answer the devs gave me"

[17:57:19]

sphery:

jduggan: cool... so is it a hill or a mountain?

[17:57:22]

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[17:57:28]

jduggan:

was it a hugh grant?

[17:57:35]

sphery:

that sounds right

[17:57:35]

jduggan:

sphery: nfi :D

[17:57:44]

iamlindoro:

http://www.mythtvtalk.com/forum/general/12840 . . . atabase.html

[17:58:42]

sphery:

nice

[17:59:16]

wagnerrp:

so...

[17:59:22]

iamlindoro:

More than that, he was instructed in fair detail (I believe by wagnerrp and others) on how to properly implement, but here we are yesterday still trying to hack the heck out of it

[17:59:39]

wagnerrp:

he worked his way back to the backend status page to discover that the information was in fact not gotten from the database

[17:59:53]

wagnerrp:

but he doesnt realize he can just pull it from the backend status page?

[17:59:56]

kormoc:

I like how he wouldn't look at the source to see how the apps are doing it but requesting someone else read the source and tell him directly

[17:59:57]

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[18:00:07]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: ooh, he said that's 'prone to break'

[18:00:15]

wagnerrp:

oh?

[18:00:22]

sphery:

why do it right when you can hack scripts and get something that barely works with today's implementation--assuming sufficient duct tape to hold it together--and could break at any time?

[18:00:29]

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[18:00:38]

kormoc:

"It looks like he's grep'ing MythWeb ... IMHO getting data second hand always breaks – if I can determine where MythWeb get's it's status from, then that would be much more robust."

[18:00:47]

iamlindoro:

You know, any duct tape and bash code, sufficiently advanced, is indistinguishable from real code

[18:00:55]

** kormoc claps **

[18:00:56]

iamlindoro:

Like Asimov said

[18:01:02]

wagnerrp:

except its in bash

[18:01:03]

sphery:

kormoc: nice...

[18:01:06]

iamlindoro:

or was it Clarke?

[18:01:13]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: and maintainable? :)

[18:01:15]

Beirdo:

heh

[18:01:17]

iamlindoro:

Clarke, I think

[18:01:27]

sphery:

iamlindoro: I hear with duct tape and bash, you can completely make it so people aren't forced to run MythVideo

[18:01:32]

wagnerrp:

you talking about the technology/magic quote?

[18:01:38]

Beirdo:

not that parts of myth's code don't need a de-duct-taping :)

[18:01:39]

iamlindoro:

sphery: At least, freed from the chains of MythVideo!

[18:01:46]

sphery:

s/least/last/

[18:01:52]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: yes

[18:01:57]

iamlindoro:

but google confirms Clarke

[18:02:05]

Beirdo:

but at least it's being worked on

[18:02:18]

sphery:

Beirdo: agreed

[18:02:24]

iamlindoro:

by some :)

[18:02:33]

Beirdo:

yeah, some :)

[18:02:33]

iamlindoro:

some are just shoehorning more crap in as fast as we can de-crap

[18:02:41]

Beirdo:

hehe.

[18:02:48]

sphery:

the hard part, though, is convincing all the users who complain after you fix something properly that the change is worthwhile\

[18:02:49]

** Beirdo steals the rolls of duct tape **

[18:02:50]

iamlindoro:

remove one setting, add another one, and the dance goes on

[18:03:08]

sphery:

actually, remove one setting, add 4 other ones

[18:03:29]

Beirdo:

yeah. and break 3 more in the process

[18:03:52]

Beirdo:

it would be nice to be able to automatically regression test

[18:04:00]

sphery:

yeah, where the 3 you broke are ones that are used by a single user as a solution to a problem that doesn't exist

[18:04:06]

Beirdo:

but no clue how that would be possible for something so gui-driven

[18:04:15]

sphery:

i.e. "allow a user-configurable LIRC program name"

[18:04:33]

wagnerrp:

so is anyone else currently writing out a clue to give these people, or should I?

[18:04:37]

Beirdo:

or are used by only a very very small portion of people...

[18:04:47]

** sphery really needs to rewrite that patch so it doesn't introduce any new settings that are useless to 99.999% of users **

[18:05:02]

Beirdo:

heh

[18:05:57]

Beirdo:

it would be nice to have some way of collecting usage stats (ie. type and quantity of tuner, etc)

[18:06:10]

Beirdo:

without pissing off the privacy nazis

[18:06:14]

Chicago:

Beirdo, something like popcorn with Debian?

[18:06:21]

stevieman:

Why can I not get a show to record everyday at a specific time, It will record on the 1st day then all days following it says it's recording at an earlier time

[18:06:26]

Chicago:

Ask them if they want to participate in the "popularity contest".

[18:06:27]

kormoc:

I keep meaning to write something like that into mythweb, so you can go to a mythweb page, see the data, hit submit to send it off

[18:06:35]

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[18:06:52]

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[18:06:56]

kormoc:

stevieman: cause your duplicate policy thinks it's all the same show/episode

[18:07:04]

silverdulcet:

stevieman: sounds like a duplicate checking is misconfigured.

[18:07:14]

Beirdo:

kormoc: yeah that would be nice

[18:07:15]

stevieman:

yah, I was playing with that

[18:07:30]

Beirdo:

kinda like the old RHN used to have pre-FC1

[18:07:46]

iamlindoro:

or your listings data is of sufficiently low quality that duplicate checking is useless

[18:07:46]

Beirdo:

brb

[18:07:50]

stevieman:

it seems that you have to make the change, esc out of the schedule area, save the changes before the changes show up in the preview

[18:08:10]

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[18:08:45]

stevieman:

iamlindoro: my listing data is from schedules direct

[18:09:08]

iamlindoro:

Then it's unlikely to be the listings data, but it still could be depending on what you're trying to record

[18:09:19]

iamlindoro:

ie some local broadcast might all show up as generic

[18:09:38]

kormoc:

"Unannounced"

[18:09:48]

Beirdo:

there. bye bye remaining coffee

[18:10:07]

stevieman:

iamlindoro: well they are repeats, I think the problem was I was selecting the back option on the screen which tossed the changes I made out the window

[18:10:16]

Beirdo:

time to head off home. Seeya on the flip side

[18:10:43]

sphery:

stevieman: if you're saying that the speculative scheduler isn't working, that may be the case--there was/is a ticket for it

[18:11:01]

sphery:

just a guess since I don't know what "preview area" means

[18:11:27]

silverdulcet:

sphery: upcoming recordings perhaps?

[18:11:32]

stevieman:

when you make changes in the scheduler there is an option to preview upcoming recordings

[18:12:07]

sphery:

http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/7070 ?

[18:12:18]

sphery:

if so, it's fixed for 0.23

[18:12:55]

sphery:

now I see why you called it "preview" area--since the name on the button was changed in 0.22 to something not very descriptive

[18:14:43]

stevieman:

that might be the problem I was having, having to save the change first seemed wrong and certainly not intuative, although it is still much better than my cable compaies STB-PVR

[18:15:45]

sphery:

hmmm.. guess that change went in before 0.22

[18:15:49]

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[18:15:54]

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[18:15:56]

metalac:

hey guys

[18:16:11]

metalac:

i had some playback issues so i decided to upgrade to nvidia 195 on my box

[18:16:34]

metalac:

the problem is that I need to install libvdpau1 on it, but it won't let me do it without removing myth

[18:16:36]

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[18:16:42]

iamlindoro:

That's a packaging issue

[18:16:43]

metalac:

this is on a mythbuntu box

[18:16:52]

iamlindoro:

sounds like {myth}*buntu

[18:16:54]

metalac:

is there anything I can do about it?

[18:16:59]

iamlindoro:

you should ask in #ubuntu-mythtv

[18:17:04]

iamlindoro:

since we don't provide myth packages here

[18:17:12]

metalac:

thanks

[18:17:15]

iamlindoro:

np

[18:17:27]

silverdulcet:

any thoughts on making mythshutdown --setwakeup set the next time to wake the machine as either the next scheduled recording or the next scheduled listings update?

[18:17:43]

silverdulcet:

whichever comes first?

[18:18:56]

silverdulcet:

not sure how many people still use mythwelcome, etc.

[18:19:11]

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[18:20:29]

Chicago:

silverdulcet, done deal with nvram-wakeup

[18:20:47]

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[18:20:47]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v Dibblah

[18:22:45]

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[18:22:57]

silverdulcet:

Chicago: the problem I run into, is mythshutdown always uses the next recording time, if the next wakeup time is set for a listing update rather then a recording, then Mythwelcome starts mythfrontend, since it thinks it was woken by a user instead of automatically.

[18:24:03]

sphery:

silverdulcet: sounds like you need to fix the "auto-wakeup or user-wakeup" check in mythwelcome

[18:24:26]

Chicago:

Go with what sphery said, the behavior you're describing AFAIK is by design.

[18:25:47]

sphery:

if what you're proposing would make it so that mythwelcome knew that it woke for listings fill, then that's a patch that should be submitted.

[18:27:03]

Chicago:

silverdulcet, One workaround might be to keep your master backend up... perhaps doing nothing... and keep a database up... somewhere else.... and then use nvram-wakeup for a slave backend which does recording jobs.

[18:27:32]

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[18:28:10]

silverdulcet:

sphery: to be honest, I'm guilty of trying to use bash to fudge it, afaik, mythshutdown --setwake isn't set as a next recording time, it assumes it was woken by the user. I'll have to look into it more.

[18:28:29]

sphery:

or just change your mythfilldatabase program setting's value to the absolute path of a script that runs mythfilldatabase and then kills mythfrontend (ideally doing some check to see if it's a run just after wakeup)

[18:29:13]

Chicago:

Why don't we "fund" the mythtv project with something analog to Neilson ratings???

[18:29:31]

silverdulcet:

sphery: that could work also, thanks.

[18:33:49]

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[18:35:22]

wagnerrp:

sphery: im going to catch hell for recommending they use something other than bash

[18:37:30]

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[18:37:36]

wagnerrp:

i dont understand why people continue to try to hack everything and the world together in bash

[18:38:19]

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[18:39:48]

high-rez:

wagnerrp: Heh, agree with you there. But I say the same thing of python (i think its unreadable : -)

[18:40:11]

wagnerrp:

i mean seriously... its easier to do string manipulation in raw C than in bash

[18:40:27]

high-rez:

perl ftw!

[18:41:52]

wagnerrp:

i only stay away from perl because... i stay away from perl and have never bothered to learn it

[18:41:58]

wagnerrp:

i imagine its not that hard to pick up

[18:42:15]

iamlindoro:

Ooooooooh Dagmar would be so mad at you

[18:42:20]

iamlindoro:

wonder where he's got off to

[18:42:22]

iamlindoro:

oh, right

[18:43:12]

high-rez:

I think a lot of people dislike perl because of the loose syntax checking. I use strict everytime I use it and its sane enough... Python though ... produces the most unreadable code/awful stack traces imho.

[18:43:56]

wagnerrp:

the only time ive had problems with stack traces in python is when ive either split the line onto multiple lines

[18:44:01]

wagnerrp:

to keep under 80 characters

[18:44:09]

wagnerrp:

or if im dealing with threading

[18:44:27]

wagnerrp:

but debugging with threads is going to be a PITA anyway

[18:44:38]

wagnerrp:

that plus python doesnt actually support multithreading

[18:44:58]

wagnerrp:

you can fork off multiple 'threads' which function independently

[18:45:02]

high-rez:

I'm certain I'll make no friends here saying it, but I really like working with java. :)

[18:45:10]

wagnerrp:

but only one thread at a time gets pushed through the interpreter

[18:46:17]

xris:

high-rez: ruby wins for unreadable in my book

[18:47:01]

high-rez:

xris: Yeah, well, I didn't mention ruby because myth doesn't use it – but I agree. :) I had to install some rails app in the past and found myself questioning if it was worth the money to deal with.

[18:48:09]

high-rez:

A place I worked at... Brought in a guy to write an app (test tool). He did it all in ruby and wowed everyone showing how fast it was to develop and how great ruby is and then he left and nobody could use maintain it. :)

[18:48:52]

gbee:

heh, updated package available "irqbalance – Daemon to balance irq's across multiple CPUs" with the following reason given for the update "This update fixes a bug in irqbalance that makes it to fail to spread IRQs in a SMP or a muli core machine (#57523)"

[18:49:06]

gbee:

so ... basically it was completely broken then?

[18:49:09]

sid3windr:

so uyhh

[18:49:10]

sid3windr:

what DID it do

[18:49:10]

sid3windr:

:p

[18:54:13]

gbee:

reading the ticket it looks like another case of packager fail, a patch they applied removed the code which retrieved the core count, as a result it always saw zero cores and just exited

[18:54:52]

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[18:56:54]

justinh:

rename s/\ \ /\ / *.mp3 -v

[18:56:57]

justinh:

bum

[18:57:20]

justinh:

I really need to sort out the formatting in my dvb radio export script

[18:57:40]

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[18:58:26]

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[18:59:03]

Beirdo:

hehe

[18:59:10]

Beirdo:

ruby... unreadable?

[18:59:14]

Beirdo:

nah

[18:59:35]

Beirdo:

but whatever floats yer boat

[18:59:37]

justinh:

scooby?

[18:59:54]

Beirdo:

doo

[19:00:03]

Beirdo:

had to be said

[19:00:30]

justinh:

that perl junk thingy I made to convert radio recordings to emptyfleas... it messes with the formatting & could do with being more.. *nice*

[19:00:56]

justinh:

for one thing I'm not a fan of the date format I used :P

[19:01:01]

justinh:

20102137897389210879812037890712980

[19:01:15]

Beirdo:

perl is kinda like C... a million wrong ways to do anything

[19:01:25]

Beirdo:

that's probably why I like perl :)

[19:01:41]

justinh:

I like it too. I like C++ too, what little I can do in it

[19:02:01]

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[19:02:03]

justinh:

oh Beirdo you prolly missed all the fun I had when I was mucking about trying to put effects in the painters

[19:02:12]

justinh:

I might still have the screenshots somewhere

[19:02:20]

Beirdo:

heh

[19:02:28]

justinh:

I was in tears laughing

[19:02:50]

justinh:

messing around with opengl with not a single clue what I was doing

[19:03:10]

justinh:

I really must get back on the case with that

[19:03:22]

justinh:

before I lose what little free time I have left

[19:03:37]

Beirdo:

heh

[19:03:57]

Beirdo:

I just changed my windows mouse pointers (finally).

[19:04:11]

Beirdo:

I can now see it when it is over a black putty window :)

[19:05:18]

justinh:

damn. so typical I decide to up my game again so close to a release

[19:05:21]

justinh:

lol

[19:05:25]

Beirdo:

and there was great rejoicing... yaya

[19:05:39]

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[19:05:46]

Beirdo:

yeah well, just think, that gives you time before the next release :)

[19:05:55]

justinh:

myers

[19:06:04]

Beirdo:

?

[19:06:09]

justinh:

might finally be able to shoehorn in that analog clock widget

[19:06:27]

Beirdo:

have some duct tape

[19:07:33]

justinh:

heh

[19:08:28]

justinh:

anyway looks like you're gonna have to imagine what Terra would look like if every element was drawn in GL when the axes have been rotated by someone who doesn't know what they're doing. It was surreal

[19:10:17]

justinh:

it's gonna bug me now though.. the shots were in imagebin.. somewhere

[19:10:26]

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[19:11:45]

Captain_Murdoch:

until their 14-day expiration policy hit....

[19:12:16]

Beirdo:

justinh: nice

[19:12:17]

Beirdo:

heh

[19:12:56]

justinh:

ah. they're still on one of my boxes too...

[19:13:21]

justinh:

along with the last working code.. big analogue clock superimposed on top of the menus.. looks mint IMHO

[19:14:56]

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[19:15:17]

gbee:

polo or extra strong?

[19:16:17]

justinh:

extra strong :D

[19:16:23]

justinh:

haha I found http://homepage.ntlworld.com/justin.hornsby2/concept.ogg again

[19:16:43]

justinh:

forgot that was up there

[19:17:23]

justinh:

dont try that at home kids. fullscreen flipbook animation. gnarly

[19:17:29]

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[19:17:32]

** gbee feels seasick **

[19:18:20]

justinh:

yeh well obviously any animated background should be *way* more subtle ;)

[19:18:55]

** gbee vomits on justinh's shoes **

[19:19:05]

gbee:

ahh, much better

[19:19:10]

justinh:

bleh

[19:19:17]

gbee:

v. cool though

[19:19:35]

justinh:

never did work out that gaussian blur either did I

[19:19:59]

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[19:20:40]

justinh:

gbee: that was before fanart came along IIRC.. the memory load of the background loop is just about tolerable.. but with cached artworks.. heh

[19:21:44]

justinh:

oh, but once the OSD is all mythui'd.. don't imagine it'll be too long before we could have video backgrounds for menus.. and then folks could really unleash hell

[19:22:03]

justinh:

shudder. In a nice way, I mean

[19:22:39]

justinh:

I've not had fun with computers for so long now.. I miss the ickle bits of code I used to hack on

[19:22:46]

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[19:28:29]

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[19:30:35]

Chicago:

justinh, if you're missing fun why not blindly pick a new app to hack upon/

[19:30:36]

Chicago:

?

[19:31:02]

Chicago:

I can recommend one for you :)

[19:32:38]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Hmmm...

[19:33:13]

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[19:41:27]

justinh:

Chicago: because mythtv is about the only OSS app I like

[19:42:16]

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[19:42:27]

justinh:

well, apart from maybe Putty, but that has all the features I want

[19:43:21]

Chicago:

justinh, I understand.

[19:43:51]

Chicago:

justinh, putty is missing one feature I want.

[19:44:17]

justinh:

I'd try to make firefox suck less if I had the faintest clue where to begin ;)

[19:44:22]

Chicago:

haha

[19:44:30]

AndyCap:

Chicago: moon on a stick?

[19:44:36]

Chicago:

AndyCap, huh?

[19:44:52]

justinh:

heh that old lee & herring sketch

[19:45:13]

AndyCap:

Chicago: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/p . . . n-stick.html

[19:45:15]

Chicago:

Putty is missing old-skewel ANSI-BBS support.

[19:45:48]

Chicago:

Ah... the putty wish list... hehe

[19:46:10]

Chicago:

I was looking for a few apps useful in the 21st century for playing TradeWars... unfortunately plain old telnet in windows seems to be the best.

[19:46:10]

AndyCap:

so this then? :) http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/p . . . -compat.html

[19:46:18]

justinh:

question is.. are there any old-skewel BBS left?

[19:46:21]

Chicago:

I'm going to end up putting dos 6.22 somewhere again.

[19:46:24]

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[19:46:27]

Chicago:

justinh, yes Citadel project.

[19:46:38]

justinh:

meh

[19:46:39]

AndyCap:

citadel is hardly old-school

[19:46:43]

Chicago:

And I'm using it. ;) My bbs isn't open to the public yet.

[19:46:45]

tehpola:

I'm having some issues getting MythTV serving music over UPnP, when I run mythbackend -v upnp, and try to play a song via my PS3, this is what I get in the log: HTTPRequest::SendResponse(xml/html) (/Band of Horses/Everything All the Time/01 – The First Song.mp3) :404 Not Found -> 192.168.3.106: 2

[19:46:46]

justinh:

I don't miss having to use a modem

[19:46:51]

Chicago:

AndyCap, recommend an old school bbs then?

[19:46:53]

AndyCap:

considering they're pusing it as a groupware

[19:47:09]

tehpola:

it also fails trying to play on my N900, so its not just the PS3

[19:47:17]

AndyCap:

Chicago: telnet fix.no ?

[19:47:19]

tehpola:

strangely, it plays recorded video fine though

[19:47:25]

Chicago:

AndyCap, I mean software.

[19:47:36]

Chicago:

AndyCap, it's not like Telegard was going to stick around forever.

[19:49:28]

AndyCap:

well, fix is running bbbs still.

[19:49:33]

tehpola:

ok, but the video gets a fully resolved path: SendResponseFile ( /mnt/external-hd/Television/Recorded/1071_20100225225500.mpg ); any idea why that could be?

[19:50:21]

Chicago:

AndyCap, I'll checkout fix.no. Sorry to get off-topic with the BBS stuff :)

[19:50:34]

AndyCap:

Chicago: anyhow. if citadel plans to keep the tty interface around I guess they still count. :)

[19:50:48]

Chicago:

AndyCap, the tty interface rocks... webcit.... not so much.

[19:51:03]

Chicago:

I think the purpose of WebCit is for you to take it apart and build your own app out of it's framework.;

[19:52:17]

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[20:02:37]

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[20:03:02]

Trinity33:

hi anyone here?

[20:03:06]

Trinity33:

hi need little help downloaded the last driver from linuxtv.org v4l-dvb then i went in to directory and typed make and got error v4l-dvb/v4l/firedtv-1394.c: In function 'fdtv_1394_exit': checked google and found that there is a bug so i need to change line in v4l-dvb/v41.confing before i will be able to make this file the problem is that i cant find config file there is config.bttv or config.cx88 kconfig etc

[20:03:06]

Trinity33:

and i

[20:03:06]

Trinity33:

should find the line CONFIG_DVB_FIREDTV=m and change it CONFIG_DVB_FIREDTV=n but i cant find it:) so need help to compile that driver

[20:03:58]

** iamlindoro throws up his hands in frustration **

[20:04:08]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Iamlindoro, problem?

[20:04:15]

iamlindoro:

Trinity33, As mentioned to you (twice) in #mythtv, the channel you want in #linuxtv

[20:04:25]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Oh

[20:04:26]

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[20:04:28]

iamlindoro:

Trinity33, You have asked your question there, you need to wait for an answer there

[20:04:37]

iamlindoro:

GadgetWisdomGuru, Nothing worth rehashing :)

[20:05:13]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Iamlindoro, how are you doing? I only know you by your name, what you record on your MythTV box, and your presence on the mailing list.

[20:05:39]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

But I enjoy your work.

[20:05:47]

iamlindoro:

GadgetWisdomGuru, Hanging in there :) Thanks!

[20:06:02]

iamlindoro:

haha, took me a second on "what I record on my box"

[20:06:11]

iamlindoro:

I really need to turn off that user job

[20:06:32]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Well, I followed the account after you sent a Tweet from it when I was discussing MythNetVision.

[20:06:57]

iamlindoro:

yeah, I'm not much of a twitterer so the account (which I set up to test the user job) kind of does double duty

[20:07:58]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Yes. Well, it took me a while to get into it and Identi.ca. I still stubbornly refuse to get into Facebook

[20:08:29]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I'm predicting someone will try a MythTweet plugin in the vein of Seesmic Look someday

[20:08:44]

iamlindoro:

I already wrote a MythTwitter plugin this rotation :)

[20:09:10]

iamlindoro:

I may/probably will rework it for .24 or .25, too much on my plate

[20:09:20]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I don't need it myself

[20:09:24]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

You've seen Look, right?

[20:09:28]

iamlindoro:

No, I haven't

[20:09:44]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

http://seesmic.com/look

[20:10:05]

iamlindoro:

The idea of MythTwitter was actually to expand it into all the screens to allow recommending a show, and have mythbackends do parsing of friend feeds to allow recommendations between mythboxen

[20:10:15]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

It just looks like a MythTV theme to me.

[20:10:18]

iamlindoro:

and to be able to comment on a particular show and have it show up on friends mythboxes, etc.

[20:10:27]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Iamlindoro, wouldn't a dedicated Status.net work better for that?

[20:11:30]

iamlindoro:

GadgetWisdomGuru, Well, the idea was to make it cross platform (and even cross-DVR), and to have others adopt the tweet format such that they're human readable, but interpretable by Myth, Sage, etc.

[20:12:40]

iamlindoro:

Who serves as the backend is somewhat unimportant, other than twitter is the most likely to continue to exist and stay up-ish

[20:12:52]

iamlindoro:

Anyway, off to play PS3 :)

[20:13:02]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Interesting. I'm always interested to see what people think. I'm a horrible programmer, but I like to try to be involved.

[20:15:51]

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[20:16:36]

randomuser:

I'm looking for advice on which capture card to purchase. yes, I am reading the docs you will link.

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[20:19:36]

Chicago:

randomuser, the hvr-1600 has been catching on :)

[20:20:46]

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[20:21:11]

randomuser:

okay

[20:21:39]

randomuser:

i'm getting confused reading about the hardware, and trying to convert specs to functionality

[20:21:57]

Chicago:

randomuser, The Silicon Dust HD Homerun is quite excellent also.

[20:22:10]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Randomuser, what sort of signals d you want to receive?

[20:22:11]

kormoc:

randomuser: you need to tell us capture source information first

[20:22:40]

randomuser:

cable tv

[20:22:52]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Analog, Digital? HD, SD?

[20:22:53]

Chicago:

In that case, grab a pvr500 off ebay so you can watch more channels.

[20:23:41]

randomuser:

wouldn't i be shooting myself in the foot if i got an analog-only tuner at this point?

[20:23:43]

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[20:24:05]

Chicago:

randomuser, if and only if you know howto decode encrypted payloads.

[20:24:11]

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[20:24:52]

randomuser:

so youre saying digital tv signals are encrypted, and i won't get plug and play?

[20:24:56]

Chicago:

randomuser, the hvr-1600 has one of each; but it's analog tuner ain't so hot at this point. the pvr500 makes excellent video out of analog.

[20:25:16]

Chicago:

randomuser, you'll likely see ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX and your locals... and that should be about it.

[20:26:51]

randomuser:

i dont follow. If the same cable can plug into the tv, the signal viewed, channels changed, shouldnt i have the same functionality with the card?

[20:27:19]

Chicago:

randomuser, there are lots of channels on the wire. The ones you can see "plug and play" should be easily detected by MythTV.

[20:27:48]

kormoc:

randomuser: HD channels are different then SD, so knowing which one (or both) determines the solution

[20:28:20]

kormoc:

randomuser: but for digital cable, the hdpvr is the best solution to get all the channels you pay for

[20:28:50]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

You need a cable box for the HDPVR

[20:29:00]

kormoc:

you need a cable box for digital cable

[20:29:18]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Exactly

[20:29:31]

kormoc:

so it's not a unexpected requirement...

[20:29:39]

randomuser:

and does mythtv operate the cable box?

[20:29:53]

kormoc:

randomuser: myth changes channels on the cable box, yes

[20:30:07]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

You have to teach it to though

[20:30:07]

kormoc:

randomuser: and the hdpvr would record from the cable box's component outputs

[20:30:07]

randomuser:

i'm clarifying, because it seems that 'digital' is a marketing term for my provider, not a technical one

[20:30:19]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

how so?

[20:30:24]

kormoc:

randomuser: no, it's a technical one. it means it's not analog

[20:30:40]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

But, in the case of the HDPVR, it digitizes the analog hd output of a digital cable box.

[20:30:43]

kormoc:

and thus, encrypt able

[20:30:46]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

It's a loophole, not an ideal method.

[20:30:53]

** kormoc blinks **

[20:30:58]

kormoc:

loophole?

[20:31:06]

Chicago:

kormoc, you blink alot on this topic

[20:31:06]

** kormoc sighs **

[20:31:11]

kormoc:

Chicago: shock

[20:31:16]

kormoc:

it does that to a person

[20:31:17]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Kormoc, the Analog Loophole

[20:31:23]

kormoc:

it's not a loophole...

[20:31:36]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Yes it is.

[20:31:39]

kormoc:

calling it a loophole encourages the removal of fair use

[20:31:39]

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[20:31:41]

randomuser:

+lormoc: marketing term as in called digital cable, no cable box.

[20:31:56]

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[20:32:03]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

The cable box takes a digital signal, outputs it to analog, which is then digitized by the HDPVR back to a digital signal

[20:32:13]

kormoc:

randomuser: you can still get digital cable without a cable box, but it's rare, and if so, any QAM capable receiver would work with it

[20:32:16]

Chicago:

More like a red-headed stepchild of a feed.

[20:32:47]

kormoc:

GadgetWisdomGuru: so? Typically that goes on a few different places in the broadcast chain anyway...

[20:32:47]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

It is a methodology of fair use that requires you to exercise a loophole in the system that the cable companies have set up to prevent you from fair use

[20:32:48]

** kormoc sighs **

[20:32:53]

Chicago:

randomuser, for what it's worth... you'll get a better transport stream of your local channels receiving their broadcasts with an antenna.

[20:32:53]

kormoc:

bah

[20:33:00]

kormoc:

I'm not going to argue with you about it

[20:33:05]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Kormoc, okay.

[20:33:12]

Chicago:

I'll argue.

[20:33:13]

kormoc:

but that term is why it's going to become disabled in the future

[20:33:15]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Chicago, I do that.

[20:33:21]

randomuser:

chicago: in theory. im in the sticks out here

[20:33:27]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Kormoc, time to buy an HDFury2

[20:33:34]

kormoc:

illegal in the us to own

[20:33:40]

randomuser:

which brings up my next topic: sattelite

[20:33:48]

kormoc:

and forbidden from talking about in this channel

[20:34:00]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

It is?

[20:34:03]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Good to know

[20:34:15]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I was not aware that thing was illegal

[20:34:20]

kormoc:

randomuser: some idea, hdpvr works great for satalite boxes with component out, pvr150 or similar works great for boxes with analog out

[20:34:36]

kormoc:

GadgetWisdomGuru: it breaks the DMCA

[20:34:36]

abqjp:

The HDFury2 is illegal to own? Then how come you can buy it from monoprice (in california)?

[20:34:46]

Chicago:

I just googled that thing... it doesn't look too impressive.

[20:35:21]

kormoc:

abqjp: same law that blocks dvd decryption, it's not enforced often, but technically, it's still illegal

[20:35:22]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I'm surprised they haven't been served with a Cease and Desist order then. Hmm...

[20:35:23]

Chicago:

Why bother to uncompress MPEG-PS to an HDMI feed... and then use those bits?

[20:35:23]

randomuser:

if im getting the signal from the analog out of a cable box or satt reciever, how does the channel change, and how do i record simultaneous programs?

[20:35:42]

kormoc:

randomuser: you'd need one box per stream

[20:35:45]

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[20:35:47]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Anyway, let's drop i that issue.

[20:35:48]

Chicago:

randomuser, for analog... the tuner in the pci-card can set the frequency.

[20:35:56]

kormoc:

randomuser: and you can use a ir blaster (prenteds to be a remote) or firewire

[20:35:57]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Randomuser, I use a combination of tuners

[20:36:08]

kormoc:

Chicago: that doesn't work with cable boxes, they only output on one channel

[20:36:23]

Chicago:

kormoc, I thought he could pull the analog feed without the cable box...

[20:36:27]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Cable through the HD-PVR, clearQAM through the SiliconDust HDHomeRun, and Broadcast through a PCI digital tuner card

[20:36:35]

kormoc:

Chicago: not for satellite

[20:36:37]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Chicago, if he has an analog feed.

[20:36:56]

randomuser:

so i don't need a specific sattelite tuner, just one reciever per tuner per show recorded at one time

[20:36:59]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

And Randomuser said satellite or cable.

[20:37:01]

Chicago:

randomuser, $600 later you can have enough tuners to cover all the bases. :)

[20:37:01]

abqjp:

GadgetWisdomGuru: why not HDHomeRun for broadcast too? That is the way I use it.

[20:37:03]

kormoc:

randomuser: correct

[20:37:21]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Abqjp, you mean one tuner for each?

[20:38:07]

randomuser:

on a dedicated box with enough horsepower, will a software based tuner outperform a hardware tuner?

[20:38:33]

kormoc:

randomuser: outperform? if by look better, a very few claim so, but the majority say otherwise

[20:38:36]

Chicago:

randomuser, probably not... because those chips that do the encoding are quite fancy and use very little CPU.

[20:38:36]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Randomuser, don't buy a software based tuner if you can help it

[20:39:10]

abqjp:

The HDHomerun works for both ClearQAM and ATSC. I have two HDHomeruns. Three of the four inputs are hooked up to my antenna, and one input is hooked up to my cable company.

[20:39:15]

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[20:39:36]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Abqjp, the reception on my antenna is inconsistent.

[20:40:09]

abqjp:

I can see the towers from my roof, so I get good reception. Better OTA than via comcast.

[20:40:20]

randomuser:

i need to relocate. i will rejoin in a few, thanks for the advice so far.

[20:40:20]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Well, it isn't all channels, just some

[20:40:29]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

The antenna dates from the construction of the building in the late 70s.

[20:40:50]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

It was disused. I grabbed the old disconnected cable and reconnected it directly to my place.

[20:40:58]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Building switched to cable in the 90s.

[20:42:07]

Chicago:

GadgetWisdomGuru, the best argument I have for your "loophole" argument is that in many states, it's the utility regulatory commission which tells the cable carriers howto do their job. Enough abuse will cause people to put an initiative on the ballot to make things more fair.

[20:43:00]

Chicago:

The republic doesn't stand for much crap if they can do something about it... Sure they'll pay outrageous long distance rates and their cable bill... but when they find an alternative; they never will look back.

[20:43:21]

kormoc:

Selective output control is being attempted to be passed by the FCC (federally), which will allow cable companies to close the 'loophole' and then we won't have any way to record HD

[20:43:22]

Chicago:

Case in point... Vonage.

[20:44:02]

Chicago:

kormoc, yeah it's the copyright or privacy flag in the transmission isn't it?

[20:44:07]

kormoc:

no

[20:44:07]

Chicago:

I think the FCC just approved it.

[20:44:32]

kormoc:

the broadcast flag was dropped years ago, this is the newer replacement that's even worse

[20:44:44]

Chicago:

Geez....

[20:44:46]

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[20:44:54]

kormoc:

they'll be allowed to shut component output on broadcast channels as well as everything else

[20:45:01]

Chicago:

sooner or later I'm just going to care about public broadcast from the birds in the sky and forget about crappy cable carriers.

[20:45:08]

kormoc:

so the analog outputs will just be permanently deactivated

[20:45:09]

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[20:45:18]

Chicago:

HDMI is an analog output.

[20:45:20]

Chicago:

technically.

[20:45:39]

kormoc:

HDMI without HDCP will be allowed to be deactivated

[20:46:02]

Chicago:

There is dormant code in the HDMI spec which will make life difficult in 2012... I don't think they gave two cents waiting on the FCC.

[20:48:01]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Chicago, what is the dormant code?

[20:48:21]

Chicago:

GadgetWisdomGuru... it's DRM for the output device... so if your monitor doesn't have the right key... there will be no transmission.

[20:48:30]

Chicago:

Why do you think there are no more CRTs being produced?

[20:49:03]

kormoc:

that's just HDCP and they can turn on the requirement now if they wanted to

[20:49:23]

Chicago:

kormoc, ah. You probably are more familiar than I am with this.

[20:49:35]

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[20:49:48]

kormoc:

the plan was to require it for every device by 2012, but they're hoping to turn it on earlier now with the passing of SOC

[20:50:27]

Chicago:

I wonder if local governments can impose restrictions on the cable carriers which cause them to just leave town.

[20:50:44]

kormoc:

nope, they're governed by the FCC

[20:51:35]

Chicago:

What does the FCC have to do with sovereign states governing themselves?

[20:51:42]

Chicago:

That's the entire premise of federalism.

[20:52:26]

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[20:52:36]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Chicago, local franchises could prevent a cable company from operating in a municipality.

[20:52:45]

kormoc:

afaik, no state has challenged the FCC rulings, so until that happens, so far they all follow the FCC rules

[20:52:48]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

But that is still subject to federal rules, which trump state rules.

[20:53:29]

Chicago:

GadgetWisdomGuru, in America we get the government we deserve.. and if you don't participate to form it to your liking; you're bound to suffer from abuses of power.

[20:54:13]

Chicago:

kormoc, I don't know of any case law in that regard either... I'm simply extremely sensitive to the rights of the people.

[20:55:52]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Chicago, what did we do to deserve half the politicians I didn't vote for?

[20:56:02]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Either way, that might be a question outside of our topic area.

[20:56:06]

Chicago:

GadgetWisdomGuru, blame your parents and your parents' parents.

[20:56:11]

Chicago:

true

[20:56:36]

Chicago:

back to the topic :)

[20:56:49]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

My parent's parents came from Poland. This is an improvement.

[20:56:54]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

So, MythTV and its use

[20:57:45]

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[20:59:07]

randomuser:

yeah

[20:59:15]

randomuser:

theory, then

[20:59:58]

randomuser:

signal comes in over cable, decoded by tuner card, transcoded by ffmpeg?, saved for viewing?

[21:01:23]

kormoc:

only software cards use transcoding, hardware cards we just capture the stream directly

[21:01:28]

kormoc:

and yes, we store it on the drive

[21:02:47]

randomuser:

any hardware anyone here has had bad experience with?

[21:03:06]

kormoc:

software encoders! :P

[21:03:12]

Chicago:

hehe

[21:04:21]

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[21:04:49]

randomuser:

i thought as much, though i wonder about them

[21:05:42]

randomuser:

i've got a board to throw at a dedicated mythtv server, with two dual core opterons and plenty of ram

[21:06:55]

randomuser:

if quality doesn't drop, i wonder if it could handle the load

[21:07:35]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Randomuser, other than the cable box itself?

[21:10:28]

kormoc:

randomuser: pretty much everyone agrees that they're not worth the bother, including the guys who write the drivers and myth devs (like me)

[21:11:30]

Chicago:

randomuser, out of curiosity; why don't you prefer the cards with built-in encoders?

[21:12:59]

wagnerrp:

Chicago: huh? since when does HDMI support analog signals?

[21:14:26]

Chicago:

wagnerrp, What do you call a decoded digital stream which becomes completely uncompressed and needs expensive cables not to degrade?

[21:14:59]

kormoc:

it is still a digital signal, not a analog one

[21:15:12]

randomuser:

software decoders are far cheaper.

[21:15:16]

Beirdo:

argh!

[21:15:34]

Beirdo:

wonder if there's a #perl, and if it's useful

[21:15:50]

kormoc:

randomuser: but you're talking about a difference of a few bucks, maybe ten...

[21:15:57]

Beirdo:

yes, and we'll see

[21:16:19]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I'm thinking of upgrading my output setup to HDMI because of the thinner cabling

[21:16:54]

wagnerrp:

analog signals mean they are infinitely variable within their bounds

[21:17:00]

randomuser:

so the $20 cards im looking at must be analog only

[21:17:16]

wagnerrp:

while digital signals are limited to two or more discrete states

[21:17:22]

kormoc:

$40 for a pvr 150, $30 for a m150 (pvr 250)

[21:19:16]

Chicago:

wagnerrp, Your description is very accurate.;

[21:19:52]

randomuser:

can a digital tuner take an analog signal? as in the pvr1600, with analog and digital tuners, can i record two analog channels at once

[21:19:54]

wagnerrp:

while DVI and HDMI are largely compatible in their digital signaling, DVI supports analog signaling while HDMI does not

[21:19:58]

Chicago:

Would you consider an uncompressed MPEG-PS to be a D-A approximation?

[21:20:29]

wagnerrp:

where would you ever find an uncompressed PS?

[21:20:35]

Chicago:

On HDMI

[21:20:43]

wagnerrp:

HDMI is not a program stream

[21:20:51]

wagnerrp:

it is its own protocol

[21:21:04]

Chicago:

Oh and I'm apples and orangesing again. sorry

[21:21:13]

wagnerrp:

and has nothing to do with digital-analog conversion

[21:21:20]

Beirdo:

randomuser: your client auto-joins?!

[21:21:21]

wagnerrp:

randomuser: that depends entirely on the card

[21:21:37]

wagnerrp:

some digital tuners can also take digital, some cannot

[21:22:04]

wagnerrp:

your card can capture both digital and analog at the same time, which is rare among tuners

[21:22:21]

wagnerrp:

however it can only do one of each, not two analog streams simultaneously

[21:22:26]

randomuser:

+beirdo: shut the laptop, drove away, opened. it thought it never left.

[21:24:05]

wagnerrp:

randomuser: basically, devs are in consensus that if you want to record content for storage, you want a mpeg encoder

[21:24:09]

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[21:24:18]

wagnerrp:

for livetv, a framegrabber is adequate, and possibly preferred

[21:24:31]

wagnerrp:

but seeing as mythtv does not do livetv, you dont want a framegrabber

[21:24:40]

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[21:25:09]

Beirdo:

randomuser: well, when I said #perl, you joined/left :)

[21:25:10]

Beirdo:

hehe

[21:25:14]

randomuser:

i can see the logic there

[21:25:32]

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[21:25:45]

randomuser:

beirdo: no, just a little ADD

[21:25:58]

Beirdo:

oh ;)

[21:26:15]

Beirdo:

and they are only semi-useful for me in this case

[21:26:25]

Beirdo:

anyways

[21:27:01]

randomuser:

im just getting a grasp on php, i have no business in #perl...

[21:27:09]

Beirdo:

heh

[21:28:45]

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[21:35:51]

Pulse-R:

error in 022-fixes build

[21:36:00]

Pulse-R:

on ppc g4

[21:36:07]

Pulse-R:

In file included from yuv2rgb.cpp:44:

[21:36:19]

wagnerrp:

are the PPC macs even supported?

[21:36:21]

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[21:36:26]

Pulse-R:

yes

[21:36:35]

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[21:36:40]

wagnerrp:

even the much older G4s?

[21:37:00]

Pulse-R:

still popular for PVR/etc.

[21:38:32]

wagnerrp:

not likely

[21:38:47]

wagnerrp:

theyre far too underpowered to do anything but standard def content

[21:39:21]

Beirdo:

that depends... will libvdpau work on em?

[21:39:21]

Pulse-R:

I'm olyusng for media player – and it does HD XVID no probs

[21:39:23]

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[21:39:30]

mattwj2002:

hi guys

[21:39:38]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Hi

[21:39:55]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: that depends, did they make any G4s with PCIe?

[21:40:00]

Beirdo:

heh

[21:40:00]

mattwj2002:

can mythtv take recorded tv shows and burn it to blu ray?

[21:40:15]

mattwj2002:

if you have a blu ray burner

[21:40:17]

Beirdo:

You MIGHT be able to get PCI cards that have those GPUs, no?

[21:40:36]

Beirdo:

but good point

[21:41:29]

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[21:42:19]

Pulse-R:

I guess there's 2 schools of thought on processor support – 1. is the support of existing systems, wher epeople retire older hardware to specific uses, and 2. people who want the latest hardware all-singing-and-dancing system

[21:42:43]

Beirdo:

mythtv is mostly #2

[21:42:55]

Pulse-R:

for instance – If I had a new shiny quad-core mac, it would not be a PVR

[21:43:00]

Beirdo:

we keep adding newfangled crap :)

[21:43:04]

wagnerrp:

Pulse-R: its not like mythtv is doing anything to intentionally prevent you from using old hardware

[21:43:22]

mattwj2002:

does that include Blu Ray burner support?

[21:43:22]

mattwj2002:

:D

[21:43:25]

wagnerrp:

its more all the hand coded assembly that gets pulled over from ffmpeg that doesnt play nicely with alternative architecture

[21:43:28]

Pulse-R:

lolz

[21:43:44]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Well, not in Myth, but a Linux system can burn to a Blu-ray disc as data.

[21:43:59]

Pulse-R:

m yproblem is with yuv2rgb it seems

[21:44:10]

mattwj2002:

oh but no video yet ah?

[21:44:18]

zetheroo:

I want to get a TV card but am wary as to what to get ...I want something that just works out of the box

[21:44:19]

wagnerrp:

are there any OSS programs that understand bluray file structure?

[21:44:22]

zetheroo:

any suggestions?

[21:44:27]

wagnerrp:

zetheroo: info needed

[21:44:39]

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[21:44:50]

Pulse-R:

toast and nero hac=ve HD and BD support

[21:45:30]

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[21:45:35]

zetheroo:

wagnerrp: I dunno .. just a TV capture device ... USB is good .... just dunno what works best

[21:45:39]

mattwj2002:

the reason I ask is because clear QAM recordings would look awesome on BluRay :)

[21:45:40]

wagnerrp:

Pulse-R: neither are open source libraries that mythtv could hook into

[21:45:52]

Pulse-R:

true

[21:45:56]

wagnerrp:

zetheroo: there are some half dozen different TV formats

[21:46:09]

zetheroo:

wagnerrp: oh?

[21:46:11]

wagnerrp:

we have to know what you want to record from, before we can recommend a card to use to do so

[21:46:41]

zetheroo:

wagnerrp: TV formats .. as in digital etc?

[21:47:12]

wagnerrp:

NTSC, ATSC, US QAM, PAL, DVB-T, DVB-C, DVB-S, ISDB

[21:47:24]

wagnerrp:

along with a number of variants on each

[21:47:28]

Pulse-R:

don't forget SECAM

[21:47:35]

mattwj2002:

O_o

[21:47:38]

wagnerrp:

them too

[21:47:47]

Beirdo:

SECAM isn't a broadcast format last I heard

[21:47:53]

Beirdo:

it's an interface format

[21:47:58]

Pulse-R:

tell the japs and french

[21:47:59]

wagnerrp:

used in russia and parts of africa

[21:48:10]

zetheroo:

wagnerrp: does it matter where in the world you are? I am in Australia ...

[21:48:11]

Pulse-R:

ahhh, ok

[21:48:14]

wagnerrp:

japs use NTSC-J

[21:48:31]

wagnerrp:

zetheroo: in australia, youre probably looking for DVB-T

[21:48:47]

zetheroo:

wagnerrp: and i am not picky about quality .. if that matters ... as long as it's clear like the digital signal we get through the antennae on the roof

[21:48:49]

Pulse-R:

digital in Aus is DVB-T

[21:49:04]

wagnerrp:

broadcast anyway

[21:49:08]

Pulse-R:

analog is PAL-50

[21:49:13]

zetheroo:

DVB-T ok

[21:49:18]

wagnerrp:

i dont know if you have any satellites to pick up

[21:49:27]

wagnerrp:

thats generally western europe

[21:49:36]

zetheroo:

I had an Analog/ATSC USB dongle ... but it's no good in Linux

[21:49:41]

Pulse-R:

there's a few sats, but most are encrypted

[21:49:54]

wagnerrp:

zetheroo: and completely worthless in australia anyway

[21:50:03]

mattwj2002:

DVB-S

[21:50:04]

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[21:50:04]

wagnerrp:

where did you buy it?

[21:50:06]

zetheroo:

wagnerrp: what is worthless?

[21:50:19]

zetheroo:

wagnerrp: i bought it here

[21:50:19]

wagnerrp:

an ATSC tuner is worthless in australia

[21:50:25]

wagnerrp:

completely worthless

[21:50:32]

zetheroo:

ha ... great

[21:50:42]

Beirdo:

it might be useful for analog...

[21:50:49]

Beirdo:

IF there's any analog

[21:50:58]

wagnerrp:

ATSC != analog

[21:51:01]

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[21:51:01]

Beirdo:

but not for digital, even if Linux supported

[21:51:03]

zetheroo:

I thought the guy said this was good anywhere in the world

[21:51:09]

Pulse-R:

anyone have a useful clue for my altivec.h problem?

[21:51:10]

zetheroo:

ok

[21:51:11]

Beirdo:

he said Analog/ATSC

[21:51:12]

wagnerrp:

and if that card did support analog, it would be NTSC, not PAL

[21:51:18]

Beirdo:

yeah

[21:51:23]

Beirdo:

hehe

[21:51:29]

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[21:51:36]

zetheroo:

so I need DVB-T ... whats a good device for Linux?

[21:51:41]

Beirdo:

you should probably but that thing on ebay and sell to an american

[21:52:34]

Pulse-R:

zetheroo: try google linux dvb-t

[21:52:53]

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[21:52:59]

zetheroo:

Beirdo: will do :P

[21:53:10]

Beirdo:

!url linuxtv

[21:53:10]

MythLogBot:

linuxtv: http://www.linuxtv.org/

[21:53:12]

Beirdo:

:)

[21:53:35]

Beirdo:

that site lists the supported cards (good for research such as this)

[21:53:45]

zetheroo:

what does DVB-T stand for?

[21:53:54]

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[21:54:04]

Beirdo:

Digital Video Broadcast – Terrestrial

[21:54:10]

Beirdo:

if I'm not mistaken

[21:54:22]

mattwj2002:

Digital Video Broadcasting — Terrestrial

[21:54:24]

innatech:

that's what I've always assumed.

[21:54:30]

mattwj2002:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVB-T

[21:54:33]

Beirdo:

heh

[21:54:39]

Beirdo:

I was 3 letters off

[21:54:45]

mattwj2002:

;)

[21:54:53]

zetheroo:

ok :)

[21:54:57]

zetheroo:

so i am here http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/DVB-T_USB_Devices

[21:55:05]

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[21:55:05]

mattwj2002:

Wikipedia could always be wrong

[21:55:06]

Beirdo:

enjoy

[21:55:08]

mattwj2002:

)

[21:55:08]

zetheroo:

anything in this list is going to work ...

[21:55:11]

mattwj2002:

:)

[21:55:15]

zetheroo:

is that it?

[21:55:18]

Pulse-R:

that was annoying

[21:55:22]

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[21:55:48]

Beirdo:

Pretty much, I guess.

[21:55:59]

zetheroo:

or is it more of a case of ... "it worked for someone but may or may not work for you"?

[21:56:11]

Beirdo:

you'd have to read it :)

[21:56:24]

innatech:

all motherboards are not created equally, so......

[21:56:28]

Pulse-R:

like anything in linux – it may work, or it may not, but should be fine

[21:56:29]

zetheroo:

ha

[21:56:59]

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[21:58:17]

zetheroo:

I read on a forum that a guy had a working device, then he did his updates to a newer kernel and the device no longer worked .. that sucks

[21:59:16]

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[22:00:03]

Pulse-R:

I hate kernel rebuilds

[22:00:05]

mattwj2002:

off to bed guys

[22:00:11]

mattwj2002:

good night all!

[22:00:16]

Pulse-R:

night

[22:00:47]

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[22:00:59]

Pulse-R:

should I try in #mythtv for help with the yuv2rgb compile errors?

[22:01:56]

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[22:02:39]

Beirdo:

no

[22:02:46]

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[22:03:04]

** Beirdo reaches over to the other channel... with a trout **

[22:05:46]

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[22:05:55]

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[22:06:58]

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[22:08:41]

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[22:09:35]

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[22:09:58]

Pulse-R:

that's better

[22:10:07]

Beirdo:

yes it is

[22:10:22]

Beirdo:

I think there's a script for building under OSX

[22:10:29]

Beirdo:

which should help you here

[22:10:37]

Pulse-R:

I run the script – have been fixing errors all night

[22:10:38]

Beirdo:

or do you already have that?

[22:10:41]

Beirdo:

K

[22:11:00]

Beirdo:

so pastebin your actual error?

[22:11:02]

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[22:11:04]

Pulse-R:

had to update GCC to 4.01, had to manually ftp the Qt dep

[22:11:28]

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[22:11:47]

** Beirdo shakes his fist at gcc for being stupid **

[22:11:59]

Pulse-R:

there was 8000+ lines of errors, all in the yuv2rgb.

[22:12:22]

Beirdo:

OK, pastebin the first 10–20 lines?

[22:12:53]

Pulse-R:

the problem is with the switch -altivec, the message says to use -maltivec instead, then altivec.h gives a missing ; after } for pretty much every line

[22:13:19]

Pulse-R:

or missing } before ;

[22:13:37]

** sphery suggests trying on GNU/Linux **

[22:14:04]

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[22:14:07]

sphery:

or use the packages that someone else made for Mac OS X

[22:14:12]

wagnerrp:

update to 4.0.1??? isnt that like 2.5 years old as it is?

[22:14:35]

Pulse-R:

yes, old, but not as old as the machine

[22:15:05]

Pulse-R:

sorry, don't know how to pastebin – I'll go learn quickly

[22:15:07]

sphery:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Packages , under Mac OS X

[22:15:12]

wagnerrp:

mythtv.pastebin.ca

[22:15:19]

wagnerrp:

copy it in, submit, and paste the link here

[22:15:24]

Pulse-R:

the packages for 022-fixes are for leopard only

[22:15:44]

Pulse-R:

so I decided to build :)

[22:15:49]

wagnerrp:

when did they drop support for the older chips in OSX?

[22:15:54]

Beirdo:

it is PAINFUL to build

[22:16:00]

Beirdo:

in leopard

[22:16:16]

Beirdo:

or maybe earlier, but definitely then

[22:16:21]

sphery:

I thought the Apple religion required yearly hardware upgrades so you never had old hardware

[22:16:25]

Pulse-R:

snow leopard is dropped PPC support. only since mid '09

[22:16:37]

Beirdo:

what? leopard had PPC still?

[22:16:42]

Beirdo:

OK then

[22:16:42]

Beirdo:

heh

[22:17:02]

Pulse-R:

certainly. and fast it is for a crsuty old 1.2GHz machine

[22:17:23]

sphery:

So, BTW, it's official. Crossover episodes are a pain when you watch series a season at a time (had to catch up on 3 CSI's to watch the 3-way crossover event).

[22:17:45]

Pulse-R:

my problem – I broke leopard, and only have Tiger recovery discs, so build I must

[22:18:16]

wagnerrp:

one might say its investigation week... at the sphery household

[22:18:21]

** wagnerrp puts on sunglasses **

[22:18:22]

sphery:

heh

[22:18:54]

sphery:

I'm actually in the CSI: Miami (first ep) of the 3

[22:19:59]

Beirdo:

22:18 < BeirdoBuild> Hey! build linux-32bit #17 is complete: Success [build successful]

[22:20:03]

Beirdo:

YAY

[22:20:14]

Beirdo:

my buildbot successfully build beirdobot :)

[22:20:17]

Beirdo:

muhahah

[22:20:44]

** wagnerrp wonders what else Beirdo controls over IRC **

[22:20:50]

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[22:21:07]

Beirdo:

heh

[22:21:15]

Beirdo:

dance...

[22:21:16]

Beirdo:

heh

[22:22:03]

wagnerrp:

the insanity of mythtv users knows no bounds.... http://www.mythtvtalk.com/forum/general/12787 . . . backend.html

[22:23:17]

sphery:

wow

[22:23:17]

Beirdo:

hehe

[22:23:38]

Beirdo:

inventive, I'll give him that

[22:23:57]

Beirdo:

why the HECK would you want to feed your IV over IR?!

[22:24:02]

Beirdo:

TV rather

[22:24:08]

Pulse-R:

pastebin 1822179

[22:24:14]

wagnerrp:

in place of an ir blaster

[22:24:22]

Beirdo:

oooh, for remote...

[22:24:36]

wagnerrp:

they actually said STB, so this would be to change channels and such

[22:24:39]

Pulse-R:

using an encoded IR signal in the TV picture?

[22:24:54]

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[22:25:27]

Beirdo:

Pulse-R: URL?

[22:26:07]

Pulse-R:

mythtv.pastebin.ca/1822179/

[22:26:35]

wagnerrp:

one too many slashes there

[22:27:46]

Beirdo:

OK

[22:28:01]

Beirdo:

change -altivec to -maltivec

[22:28:03]

Pulse-R:

http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/1822179

[22:28:20]

Beirdo:

I bet most of the following is related to that

[22:28:26]

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[22:28:29]

Pulse-R:

yeh, likely

[22:28:45]

Trinity33:

hi again i have that driver installed so got output from grep -i dvb /var/log/messages and now when tried to setup mythtv so i open window and go to capture card dvb dtv v3.x then chose i should be open diseqc and when i click on it it say not connected

[22:28:45]

Trinity33:

any andvice?

[22:28:46]

Beirdo:

I went through that about 4 years ago on my G3

[22:28:58]

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[22:29:22]

devinheitmueller:

diseqc? Do you have a satellite card?

[22:29:22]

Pulse-R:

you think its a gcc error, or more likely a config line?

[22:30:04]

wagnerrp:

'i have two minimyth based frontends running xenon duos'... WTH is a xenon duo

[22:30:15]

innatech:

Xeon.

[22:30:16]

Beirdo:

Pulse-R: they likely changed the option in newer gcc

[22:30:26]

wagnerrp:

there is no such thing as a Xeon duo

[22:30:31]

innatech:

Dual proc?

[22:30:41]

devinheitmueller:

Pulse-R: did you add -maltivec ?

[22:30:48]

wagnerrp:

there are dual processor Xeons, but they were never marketed as such

[22:31:01]

innatech:

I've heard them referred to that way. I think...

[22:31:07]

iamlindoro:

Unconnected means *you* haven't defined your diseqc tree yet

[22:31:13]

iamlindoro:

Kinda like it says in the docs

[22:31:28]

Trinity33:

so how to do it?

[22:31:31]

Pulse-R:

I didn't – was just running the script as-is

[22:31:37]

iamlindoro:

and on the DVB-S wiki page some silly fool spend a day writing and illustrating with screenshots

[22:31:39]

innatech:

I mean dual CPU, not dual core. Like, Dell Power Edge servers from ~5 years ago.

[22:31:48]

iamlindoro:

It tells you how to do it in both places referenced above

[22:31:48]

innatech:

That'd be my guess, anyway.

[22:31:49]

Beirdo:

!trout Trinity33 Read The Docs PLEASE

[22:31:49]

** MythLogBot slaps Trinity33 with a Read The Docs PLEASE trout on behalf of Beirdo... **

[22:32:05]

devinheitmueller:

Pulse-R: it is likely that the author of yuv2rgb never considered Mac support, so you might have to jump through some hoops to get it to build.

[22:32:06]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: did you ever set Internal as the default player for 0.22?

[22:32:18]

iamlindoro:

yeah

[22:32:31]

sphery:

Trinity33: wonderful writeup by a very smart man at http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/DVB-S

[22:32:31]

Beirdo:

devinheitmueller: it had worked before, I think. But who knows now

[22:32:49]

devinheitmueller:

Well, it probably just needs some tweaking to the options passed to the compiler.

[22:33:00]

Beirdo:

but still... the script may be for a newer version of gcc that needs tweaking for Tiger

[22:33:06]

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[22:33:18]

devinheitmueller:

... it's also possible the author didn't properly embrace autoconf.

[22:33:26]

iamlindoro:

Guss he figured I was about to kick him here

[22:33:27]

Pulse-R:

the pl script is fine – it's the mythbuild script perhaps?

[22:33:30]

devinheitmueller:

(which in theory should prevent these sorts of issues)

[22:33:31]

iamlindoro:

And it was a real possibility

[22:33:59]

devinheitmueller:

I don't think anyone here would have blamed you.

[22:34:07]

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[22:34:16]

iamlindoro:

what with the calling me an idiot in #mythtv ;)

[22:35:18]

** iamlindoro did not write http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/DVB-S for his health :) **

[22:35:42]

Beirdo:

iamlindoro: well... he IS a newbie... but wow, what a newbie :)

[22:35:44]

devinheitmueller:

crap. kernel oops. bbiab

[22:35:49]

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[22:36:05]

** Beirdo rolls up a copy of the docs to smack the errant puppy with should he come back **

[22:36:08]

innatech:

What's the most sane way to approach controlling multiple, identical D*tv boxes by IR? A USB multiport IR xmitter natively supported by Myth? I'm going nuts trying to make sense of the Lircd docs.

[22:36:23]

Beirdo:

NO, newbie! no peeing on the carpet!

[22:36:46]

Beirdo:

innatech: natively by myth?!

[22:36:58]

innatech:

Well--as in listed in the menus by name.

[22:37:02]

Beirdo:

I think myth's main IR interface is lirc, is it not?

[22:37:15]

innatech:

i.e. the USB-UIRT II (out of stock :( )

[22:37:18]

wagnerrp:

isnt Trinity33 the one who was in here earlier, unwilling to read any documentation?

[22:37:23]

Beirdo:

yes

[22:37:36]

Beirdo:

we swatted him with the rolled up docs then too

[22:37:50]

Beirdo:

and he came back to pee on the carpet again.. bad newbie.

[22:37:53]

Beirdo:

he'll learn

[22:38:14]

Beirdo:

or he'll be an outside puppy eventually

[22:38:16]

innatech:

OK, natively supported by Lirc then. I've read the wiki and the parts about multiple IR serial transmitters were not encouraging.

[22:38:45]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: its amusing all the people on mythtvtalk trying to use external player with storage groups

[22:38:55]

wagnerrp:

who cant comprehend why theyre getting 'myth://' links

[22:39:14]

iamlindoro:

I saw one thread, something about "how do I get rid of this myth:// crap??"

[22:39:14]

Beirdo:

innatech: sorry, but that would be a lirc issue :)

[22:39:26]

Beirdo:

iamlindoro: ummm, uninstall mythtv? :)

[22:39:27]

Beirdo:

hehe

[22:39:32]

wagnerrp:

heres another one 'mythvideo MKV and ISO'

[22:39:34]

innatech:

Yeah...not much support there so far. I was hoping someone might have confronted the issue.

[22:39:37]

iamlindoro:

that would be a quick way

[22:40:00]

Beirdo:

dunno, innatech. Hang around and maybe someone will pipe up after reading backlog?

[22:40:09]

innatech:

yup, one can always hope.

[22:40:11]

randomuser:

i handbrake mkv's

[22:40:16]

randomuser:

problem solved.

[22:40:22]

wagnerrp:

innatech: and if not, ask again in an hour or two

[22:40:54]

Beirdo:

if you find a solution, PLEASE document it somewhere :)

[22:41:05]

Beirdo:

I'm sure you're not the only person who'd want it

[22:41:16]

wagnerrp:

innatech: technically, mythtv does not support IR blasters... it just allows you to use an external channel changer script

[22:41:17]

Pulse-R:

Beirdo: any clue where to look in the source tree for yuv2rgb?

[22:41:22]

innatech:

oh, I don't need to be that noisy. I'll ask again tomorrow. And yes, I plan to write up the DirecTV related stuff when I figure it all out.

[22:41:31]

wagnerrp:

its up to you to properly handle your blaster

[22:41:44]

Beirdo:

Pulse-R: find . -name yuv2rgb.c

[22:41:50]

innatech:

I believe that's known as the "Han Solo Rule."

[22:42:23]

Beirdo:

if that finds nothing, try yuv2rgb.\*

[22:42:47]

Beirdo:

and if OSX didn't put in find, they should be smacked hard

[22:42:55]

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[22:43:57]

devinheitmueller:

stupid kernel panics

[22:44:07]

Pulse-R:

looks like there was a similar issue 2 years ago: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/3946 but that was not exactly the same

[22:44:16]

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[22:44:22]

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[22:44:54]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: this one actually isnt a half bad suggestion... http://www.mythtvtalk.com/forum/general/12733 . . . rt-idea.html

[22:45:22]

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[22:45:40]

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[22:47:07]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: be a lot more useful on the mythtv wiki wishlist, no?

[22:49:43]

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[22:50:11]

Beirdo:

devinheitmueller: you poking yer kernel in a bad way again? :)

[22:50:20]

devinheitmueller:

Yeah.

[22:50:41]

Beirdo:

driver development is so much fun... CRASH, ah crap!

[22:50:47]

devinheitmueller:

At least it's not one of those cases where I hit 30 or 40 panics in a single day

[22:50:56]

devinheitmueller:

yup.

[22:51:01]

devinheitmueller:

You get used to it.

[22:51:01]

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[22:51:06]

Beirdo:

you do :)

[22:51:07]

devinheitmueller:

(and you change your mandatory fsck interval)

[22:51:19]

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[22:51:31]

Pulse-R:

browsing source now...

[22:51:37]

Beirdo:

and in some cases you put in an appropriate symlink to fsck that reflects yer general mood

[22:51:49]

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[22:51:50]

Pulse-R:

will come back if things go awry, or to advise success

[22:51:52]

devinheitmueller:

also, at least it's reproducible in this case.

[22:52:07]

devinheitmueller:

plug in device. Run tvtime. Explode!

[22:52:08]

Beirdo:

ah, that is better than the heisen-bug

[22:52:14]

devinheitmueller:

indeed.

[22:52:49]

Beirdo:

nothing I hate worse than the bug that happens 1% of the time

[22:52:53]

devinheitmueller:

The heisenbug is pretty rare for the stuff I've been working on lately. Plenty of traditional races though.

[22:53:01]

devinheitmueller:

welcome to my world.

[22:53:08]

Beirdo:

and usually when it's being demoed to the customer

[22:53:28]

devinheitmueller:

I love it when things explode when you do XYZ. Those are usually the easy ones to nail down.

[22:53:35]

wagnerrp:

heisen-bug? is that the one that watching for it causes it not to happen?

[22:53:35]

Beirdo:

yeah

[22:53:42]

devinheitmueller:

The other 90% of my time is spent finding the other weird cases.

[22:53:43]

Beirdo:

yup. :)

[22:53:58]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: essentially, yes

[22:54:03]

wagnerrp:

those are always fun

[22:54:12]

Beirdo:

totally unpredictable and annoying bugs

[22:54:27]

wagnerrp:

i had one where the act of putting in a couple print and flush statements effectively fixed the bug

[22:54:37]

Beirdo:

unfortunately relatively common in threaded applications

[22:54:43]

wagnerrp:

as it adjusted the timing just slightly enough to eliminate the possibility of some race condigion

[22:55:21]

Beirdo:

yeah, race conditions are often the culprit in the WTH bugs :)

[22:55:31]

devinheitmueller:

Under Windows I have some tools to help with those sorts of whacky cases. Under Linux it's kind of a bi**h.

[22:55:45]

Beirdo:

sad isn't it?

[22:55:51]

devinheitmueller:

It is what it is.

[22:55:56]

Beirdo:

you could spend your time developing them...

[22:56:03]

Beirdo:

or working on the real work

[22:56:10]

devinheitmueller:

Then your tuner wouldn't work. :-)

[22:56:11]

Beirdo:

so we all choose to do the real work

[22:56:20]

Beirdo:

exactly

[22:56:35]

devinheitmueller:

Well, *your* tuner might work, but perhaps not the next guy's.

[22:56:47]

Beirdo:

there is a line somewhere where it's better use of your time to develop them...

[22:57:16]

Beirdo:

but that means that tuner's just driving you bat-crazy and you have no other option

[22:57:27]

Beirdo:

so let's hope that doesn't happen :)

[22:57:45]

devinheitmueller:

Well, I've found debugging typically has two basic schools of thought:

[22:57:56]

devinheitmueller:

1. Poke around at the likely culprits. or:

[22:58:01]

Beirdo:

when you get tempted to pull the card out and go Office Space on it

[22:58:16]

devinheitmueller:

2. Methodically debug the problem.

[22:58:22]

Beirdo:

yup

[22:58:30]

devinheitmueller:

Knowing which to use when is the hard part.

[22:58:37]

Beirdo:

#1 will catch a pile quickly

[22:58:47]

Beirdo:

#2 will catch the remainder... slowly

[22:58:48]

Beirdo:

heh

[22:58:52]

devinheitmueller:

pretty much.

[22:59:20]

devinheitmueller:

Can you tell I'm from a hardware background. :-)

[22:59:26]

Beirdo:

yep :)

[22:59:42]

Beirdo:

I'm from the embedded software side... I can relate

[22:59:47]

devinheitmueller:

The tuners are getting two damn small to debug with a scope though.

[22:59:56]

devinheitmueller:

The latest one I worked on was smaller than a thumb drive.

[22:59:59]

devinheitmueller:

*Way* smaller.

[23:00:00]

Beirdo:

yeah, that I can believe

[23:00:10]

devinheitmueller:

As in exactly twice the size of the USB connector.

[23:00:15]

Beirdo:

micro-BGA or the equivalent?

[23:00:35]

devinheitmueller:

yeah, the whole thing was on a single chip – bridge, demod, *and* tuner.

[23:00:47]

Beirdo:

that would be incredibly difficult to put onto a scope or logic analyser

[23:00:58]

Beirdo:

if at all possible

[23:01:08]

Beirdo:

nice integration though.

[23:01:14]

Beirdo:

let's hope it WORKS

[23:01:23]

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[23:01:24]

devinheitmueller:

It's the one in the top picture: http://www.pctvsystems.com/Products/ProductsE . . . Default.aspx

[23:01:48]

devinheitmueller:

Note that the left half of the thing is what is inserted into the USB jack.

[23:01:57]

Beirdo:

that's cute

[23:01:58]

devinheitmueller:

Yeah, it works.

[23:02:14]

devinheitmueller:

At least according to all the users who have tried it so far.

[23:02:14]

Beirdo:

too bad I ain't got DVB-T :)

[23:02:36]

devinheitmueller:

PCTV makes an ATSC stick, but it's a little larger.

[23:02:52]

devinheitmueller:

It's actually the same mechanical profile as the nanostick shown in the third photo.

[23:03:10]

Beirdo:

man, if it were that size...

[23:03:16]

Beirdo:

that's not too bad

[23:03:33]

Beirdo:

but the pico... get a USB hub and put a few on there? hehe

[23:03:42]

Beirdo:

likely not have the bandwidth

[23:03:44]

devinheitmueller:

It's a shame they don't show them next to a coin or something so you can see the scale.

[23:03:55]

devinheitmueller:

Well, with DVB-T, the bandwidth would be ok.

[23:04:03]

devinheitmueller:

... it's not analog or anything.

[23:04:07]

Beirdo:

knowing the size of the connector, that is impressive

[23:04:15]

devinheitmueller:

And at least the ATSC version has a hardware PID filter.

[23:04:22]

Beirdo:

that's good

[23:04:28]

devinheitmueller:

http://www.pctvsystems.com/Products/ProductsE . . . Default.aspx

[23:04:41]

devinheitmueller:

That pic is a little better, because the connector is slid back so you can see the USB.

[23:05:08]

Beirdo:

not bad at all

[23:05:34]

devinheitmueller:

digital only (ATSC/ClearQAM)

[23:05:44]

devinheitmueller:

... but that's all many people care about nowadays.

[23:06:03]

Beirdo:

http://www.pctvsystems.com/Products/ProductsN . . . Default.aspx

[23:06:08]

Beirdo:

it seems

[23:06:18]

Beirdo:

yeah, that covers most uses

[23:06:19]

devinheitmueller:

Yeah, that's the ATSC equivalent device.

[23:06:29]

devinheitmueller:

(I was on the Europe page so it was just quicker to show you that one)

[23:06:38]

Beirdo:

yup

[23:06:57]

devinheitmueller:

and one of these days it might work under Linux.

[23:07:12]

Beirdo:

:)

[23:07:15]

Beirdo:

I wish you luck

[23:07:27]

Beirdo:

and not too many kernel panics in the process

[23:07:59]

Beirdo:

heh

[23:08:14]

Beirdo:

they say that it's not possible to receive ATSC while moving?

[23:08:22]

Beirdo:

bah

[23:08:25]

devinheitmueller:

It's very difficult.

[23:08:30]

devinheitmueller:

That's why they're doing ATSC-MH.

[23:08:38]

devinheitmueller:

It's a problem related to the doppler effect.

[23:08:42]

Beirdo:

it should work OK if you have good enough signal

[23:08:45]

Beirdo:

oooh

[23:08:46]

Beirdo:

yeah

[23:08:47]

devinheitmueller:

Not really.

[23:08:51]

Beirdo:

gotcha

[23:08:57]

devinheitmueller:

But ATSC-MH will specifically solve the problem.

[23:08:59]

Beirdo:

I keep forgetting that..

[23:09:11]

wagnerrp:

in tradeoff, VSB supposedly worked better for distance

[23:09:24]

devinheitmueller:

That's why it's funny when I go to Target and see portable ATSC receivers, and then look for the disclaimer that talks about how you cannot use it in a car.

[23:09:28]

Beirdo:

sorry, it HAS been 13 years since I graduated from university... some things get foggy

[23:09:50]

devinheitmueller:

Well, your knowledge is tied to the things you *need* to know.

[23:09:58]

devinheitmueller:

like most people...

[23:09:59]

Beirdo:

and my brain was thinking QAM encoding :)

[23:10:01]

Beirdo:

yeah

[23:10:13]

Beirdo:

QAM is possible (or should be) while moving

[23:10:33]

devinheitmueller:

yeah.

[23:10:33]

Beirdo:

that's how many pre-GSM mobile devices worked (Mobitex for instance)

[23:10:51]

Beirdo:

but yeah, VSB ain't QAM :)

[23:11:04]

devinheitmueller:

nope. That's why the letters are different. ;-0

[23:11:06]

devinheitmueller:

:-)

[23:11:56]

jamesd2:

i think the people invented acronyms loved alphabet soup

[23:12:05]

devinheitmueller:

perhaps.

[23:12:12]

devinheitmueller:

I like the acronym "TLA" in particular.

[23:12:15]

Beirdo:

and as a Amateur Radio (non)operator, I should know that sideband-based signals are funky when ya move

[23:12:22]

Beirdo:

yeah

[23:12:33]

Beirdo:

we used to play TLA games at university at times

[23:13:01]

Beirdo:

Electrical Engineering students truly are geeky :)

[23:13:07]

devinheitmueller:

it's true.

[23:13:13]

devinheitmueller:

Which school?

[23:13:22]

Beirdo:

University of Waterloo

[23:13:24]

Beirdo:

1997

[23:13:25]

devinheitmueller:

ah

[23:13:53]

Beirdo:

kinda miss the university days

[23:14:07]

devinheitmueller:

they had their benefits I'm sure.

[23:14:26]

Beirdo:

almost enough that I'd half consider doing a masters... but... I like getting paid.

[23:14:42]

devinheitmueller:

... not uncommon.

[23:14:48]

wagnerrp:

now wait a minute... we used to have a boat, and had no problems using a SSB radio at speed

[23:15:54]

devinheitmueller:

wagnerrp: don't ask me – I'm not the electrical engineer...

[23:15:54]

Beirdo:

you wouldn't notice the frequency variations much on audio

[23:16:20]

Beirdo:

but you CAN hear it if you listen carefully

[23:16:23]

wagnerrp:

ok, so analog reception isnt affected much, only digital?

[23:16:46]

Beirdo:

well, our ears naturally don't care that much

[23:17:03]

Beirdo:

but digital receivers with complex encoding... does

[23:17:29]

devinheitmueller:

Reed solomon can only compensate so much. Ultimately, the digital signal has to be 100% correct.

[23:17:40]

devinheitmueller:

Stupid ones and zeros.

[23:17:44]

Beirdo:

yeah. :)

[23:17:45]

wagnerrp:

im surprised they couldnt compensate for that with some form of GPS

[23:17:53]

Beirdo:

and don't forget multipath ouches

[23:18:08]

devinheitmueller:

Yeah, multipath is a b**ch

[23:18:17]

Beirdo:

the bane of the digital radio :)

[23:18:24]

devinheitmueller:

The newer tuners handle it much better.

[23:18:30]

Beirdo:

yeah, thankfully

[23:18:31]

wagnerrp:

you would have to know where the station is

[23:18:43]

wagnerrp:

but youve got speed and direction, you could compensate for the shift

[23:18:48]

Beirdo:

some stupid cellphones don't even deal with it well

[23:19:20]

Beirdo:

especially in urban environments where so many of us live

[23:19:35]

Beirdo:

hi-rises are great for bouncing signals all over the place

[23:19:50]

devinheitmueller:

yup.

[23:19:57]

devinheitmueller:

I've got some really bad mulitpath here.

[23:20:02]

Beirdo:

heh, I guess you get it worse than most

[23:20:16]

Beirdo:

especially if you're in Manhattan :)

[23:20:18]

devinheitmueller:

The ghosting made analog tv pretty much unwatchable.

[23:20:38]

Beirdo:

I bet

[23:20:45]

Beirdo:

it was bad enough downtown Toronto

[23:20:53]

Beirdo:

and that is much smaller

[23:20:58]

devinheitmueller:

Depends on where you are in manhattan.

[23:21:08]

devinheitmueller:

My location is a bit of an edge case.

[23:21:20]

devinheitmueller:

Generally speaking it isn't too bad.

[23:21:24]

Beirdo:

of course, many of the signals downtown TO are coming from the CN Tower, and not much multipath applies then

[23:21:39]

Beirdo:

direct LOS to almost the entire city of 4M people

[23:21:55]

devinheitmueller:

nice

[23:22:02]

Beirdo:

flippin tall antenna... that's what the CN Tower was designed for

[23:22:28]

Beirdo:

tallest free-standing tower in the world... for analog TV and FM radio

[23:22:32]

devinheitmueller:

Well my tower was designed as a docking station for blimps.

[23:22:40]

devinheitmueller:

(seriously)

[23:22:42]

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[23:22:54]

Beirdo:

heh, yeah

[23:23:06]

devinheitmueller:

They only tried it *once* and realized what a bad idea it was.

[23:23:06]

Beirdo:

Empire State?

[23:23:10]

devinheitmueller:

yup.

[23:23:17]

devinheitmueller:

I didn't show you the photo?

[23:23:22]

Beirdo:

Yeah, I remember seeing something about it

[23:24:03]

wagnerrp:

nothing quite like a blimp in high winds

[23:24:04]

Beirdo:

it would still make a decent antenna tower

[23:24:15]

devinheitmueller:

http://devinheitmueller.com/dsc00801.jpg

[23:24:18]

Beirdo:

if you can keep King Kong off it

[23:24:20]

wagnerrp:

i dont know who ever thought that would be a good idea

[23:24:23]

devinheitmueller:

I'm literally in the shadow of the transmitter.

[23:24:23]

bonelifer:

anyone suggest a USB wireless G stick that will work with Karmic out of the box, I'm not looking for blazing speed, just something that works.

[23:24:46]

wagnerrp:

bonelifer: are you looking to stream mythtv content over wireless g?

[23:25:07]

bonelifer:

no, just to get the guide info over the network.

[23:25:27]

Beirdo:

devinheitmueller: I had a similar situation with the CN Tower, but not THAT close ;)

[23:25:42]

devinheitmueller:

Yeah, I'm at 1 block.

[23:25:50]

Beirdo:

but I nearly had to look directly up

[23:26:04]

Beirdo:

I was at Bay St and Queens Quay

[23:26:12]

devinheitmueller:

That photo doesn't really do it justice until you realize that I'm pointing the camera up at an 80 degree angle.

[23:26:15]

Beirdo:

if you ever look at google maps for TO

[23:26:20]

Beirdo:

yeah

[23:27:20]

bonelifer:

I have one but it doesn't work. lsusb shows it as as 148f:2770 RaLink Technology, Corp. Which ubuntuforums suggest shares the rt2870sta drivers.

[23:27:25]

Beirdo:

CN Tower was 3 blocks over and 2 north or so

[23:27:40]

bonelifer:

Sometimes after fiddling it'll say it's connected, but later it won't reconnect.

[23:28:10]

devinheitmueller:

gotcha.

[23:28:20]

Beirdo:

I miss Harborfront sometimes... Downtown Toronto tries very hard to be like Manhattan...

[23:28:25]

Beirdo:

and almost succeeds

[23:28:28]

devinheitmueller:

heh

[23:28:43]

Beirdo:

in the good AND bad parts

[23:32:11]

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[23:38:19]

innatech:

I'm beginning to think the "easiest" way to handle multiple, identical D*tv STBs over IR is to use multiple VMs with a minimal distro and talk to lircd on each over the network. Heh.

[23:38:45]

devinheitmueller:

heh, found the bugger. ;-)

[23:39:59]

Loto:

cant you reference each blaster individually?

[23:40:10]

Beirdo:

devinheitmueller: well done

[23:40:39]

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[23:41:44]

innatech:

Loto: in theory, but it's not easy to get it working. Configuring one blaster three times and modifying the channel change script to talk to a "remote" host is probably easier than dealing with fixing the broken init in Karmic.

[23:41:56]

Loto:

ah

[23:42:19]

Loto:

just curious

[23:42:27]

innatech:

heh, me too.

[23:44:23]

devinheitmueller:

ok, maybe not.

[23:44:25]

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[23:44:41]

innatech:

I'll have to get lircd to see ttyUSB0 to make that setup work, though. Bleh.

[23:47:05]

Loto:

put delay timer relays on the 5v lines

[23:47:13]

Loto:

so you can rely on the order they're added ;)

[23:47:35]

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[23:47:59]

innatech:

that's so crazy it just might work. *cackle*

[23:48:06]

Loto:

haha

[23:49:57]

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[23:51:43]

Beirdo:

WOW

[23:52:04]

Beirdo:

the Canadian Simplified Passport Renewal form is much improved :)

[23:53:15]

Loto:

simplified and still 30 pages?

[23:53:18]

Loto:

haha :)

[23:53:20]

Beirdo:

2 pages

[23:53:23]

Loto:

ah not bad

[23:53:27]

Beirdo:

and VERY much simplified

[23:53:37]

Loto:

yeah ive waited in line and crap before

[23:53:38]

Beirdo:

I have to renew mine before August

[23:53:46]

Loto:

mines up this summer sometime too

[23:54:03]

Beirdo:

Well, I live in the US, so...

[23:54:07]

Loto:

ahhhh

[23:54:07]

Beirdo:

heh

[23:54:07]

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[23:54:22]

Loto:

do you still have to appear either to drop it off or pick it up?

[23:54:29]

Beirdo:

I get to courier the application and current passport and payment to Gatineau, QC

[23:54:29]

Loto:

at an embassy or something?

[23:54:39]

Beirdo:

or go to Canada to do it in person

[23:54:47]

Loto:

in another country without your passport?

[23:54:49]

Loto:

yikes

[23:54:54]

Beirdo:

I have my Green Card

[23:55:04]

Loto:

ah

[23:55:09]

Beirdo:

as long as I don't leave the US, I'll be fine :)

[23:55:14]

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[23:55:17]

Beirdo:

but yeah. ouch

[23:55:38]

Beirdo:

sucks that I can't do it in person at the consulate

[23:55:52]

Beirdo:

as I'll be 2 blocks from one next week :)

[23:56:03]

innatech:

My education continues....lircd can't talk over USB/serial adapters. So my little experiment would require a PCI serial board.

[23:56:38]

Beirdo:

innatech: can it use parallel port?

[23:56:58]

Beirdo:

you could bit-bang a bunch of transmitters in parallel

[23:57:01]

innatech:

Maybe....but I'd rather not deal with that.

[23:57:07]

Beirdo:

wuss :)

[23:57:11]

innatech:

Yes.

[23:57:14]

Beirdo:

heh

[23:57:21]

Loto:

maybe usb audio blasters would work?

[23:57:29]

Beirdo:

I think I might just roll my own when I get to that stage

[23:57:31]

Loto:

or does lirc only support recieve on thoes

[23:57:54]

wagnerrp:

apparently someone put together transmit support a couple months ago

[23:58:04]

Loto:

pretty cheap and easy

[23:58:13]

innatech:

I dunno. $20 for a PCI card isn't too bad.

[23:58:14]

Beirdo:

make a parallel port dongle and drive multiple IR LEDs... with an AVR or PIC on board to control em

[23:58:24]

** Beirdo geeks out **

[23:58:41]

Loto:

STB sound like such a pain :(

[23:58:45]

innatech:

Pass each port to a VM, run lirc, make it

[23:58:50]

innatech:

listen over the network.

[23:58:53]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: yeah... i dare say thats beyond nearly everyone in here

[23:58:54]

Loto:

would be nice if we could capture digitally

[23:58:59]

Loto:

but analog? blah

[23:59:06]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: heh, could be

[23:59:18]

Beirdo:

heck, use an AVR with USB-slave in it

[23:59:32]

Beirdo:

make my own USB – multi transmitter

[23:59:38]

wagnerrp:

Loto: complain to your nearest representative/senator

[23:59:43]

Beirdo:

wouldn't be hard if you know how to do it

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