Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Wednesday, March 10th, 2010, 00:00 AST

[00:00:02]

k-man:

oh... hang on

[00:00:04]

iamlindoro:

pastebin the whole output

[00:00:13]

wagnerrp:

k-man: thats just some completely arbitrary value set by the encoder

[00:00:34]

k-man:

ok, hang on, need to locate which file it is

[00:00:50]

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[00:00:55]

sphery:

k-man: the 2nd for loop I gave you output the filename before the video line

[00:01:17]

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[00:02:27]

k-man:

http://pastebin.ca/1831187

[00:02:43]

iamlindoro:

Duration: 00:14:40.96, start: 76966.008789, bitrate: 9136 kb/s

[00:03:25]

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[00:03:28]

iamlindoro:

9 Mbit MPEg-2, easy peasy

[00:03:37]

k-man:

cool

[00:03:51]

wagnerrp:

so mpeg2, 9mbps... you could probably get by with one of the tualatin P3s (original pentium m)

[00:03:54]

k-man:

now to buy a macmini 1.8GHz

[00:04:03]

wagnerrp:

now to buy???

[00:04:11]

k-man:

yeah – havnt got it yet

[00:04:17]

sphery:

k-man: if you want filname, bitrate, and resolution: for file in *.mpg ; do echo "$file:"; ffmpeg -i $file 2>&1 | grep -e '$Duration\|Stream.*Video$' ; done

[00:04:28]

wagnerrp:

no no no... you never purchase just because it works with your existing content

[00:04:31]

wagnerrp:

you plan ahead

[00:04:35]

k-man:

sphery: i can tell you like coding :)

[00:04:48]

k-man:

wagnerrp: i agree

[00:05:03]

sphery:

1.8GHz would be a stretch (or won't work) with high-res/high-bitrate H.264

[00:05:14]

wagnerrp:

and a 1.8 may be a bit low for some h264 content

[00:05:22]

sphery:

didn't someone say that the Mac Mini was a bad choice for a frontend?

[00:05:30]

wagnerrp:

especially anything over 20mbps, or anything single sliced

[00:05:36]

wagnerrp:

mac mini is fine (kormoc uses one)

[00:05:41]

wagnerrp:

its the atv thats a horrible frontend

[00:05:46]

k-man:

ok, this is my plan – buy the 1.8Ghz mac mini as it can outpust svideo, so i can use it with my current CRT tv, then as funds permit, get an HDTV – if the mac mini cannot cope with HD content, I'll sell the mac mini and buy a newer one.

[00:05:47]

sphery:

ah, yeah, apple tv

[00:05:57]

sphery:

sorry, all those fruity products confuse me

[00:06:17]

** wagnerrp tries to think of a glossy white fruit **

[00:06:19]

** sphery suggests 2.6GHz Core 2 Duo or better :) **

[00:06:38]

k-man:

a friend runs a mac mini 2ghz as an FE in osx, and it works great, even streams over 802.11n no problems for him

[00:06:54]

k-man:

sphery: no can do, those ones have the nvidia chipset and cannot output to svideo afaict

[00:06:56]

wagnerrp:

apparently the 2.5s are new fast enough for HDPVR content with the latest ffmpeg sync

[00:07:09]

sphery:

ok, 2.5 :)

[00:07:35]

k-man:

sphery: no, the last non nvidia afaict is the 1.8GHz

[00:07:47]

wagnerrp:

but thats still probably too low for most bluray content

[00:07:57]

sphery:

why can't nvidia ones do S-Video? HDMI only?

[00:08:03]

wagnerrp:

yeah

[00:08:17]

wagnerrp:

nvidia hasnt shipped onboard chipsets with SD analog since the 6-series

[00:08:37]

wagnerrp:

theyll do VGA, but ive not seen any with even component, much less svideo

[00:08:39]

sphery:

ah, great, HDMI--here to free us from all our old display devices

[00:09:51]

k-man:

has blueray been cracked yet?

[00:09:59]

wagnerrp:

on windows, sure

[00:10:07]

k-man:

but not on linux?

[00:10:12]

wagnerrp:

two separate closed source projects

[00:10:19]

k-man:

oh damn

[00:10:22]

sphery:

s/been cracked/is still being cracked as they keep changing/

[00:10:25]

wagnerrp:

with some minimal progress on the open source project

[00:10:29]

Beirdo:

!trout k-man DMCA

[00:10:29]

** MythLogBot slaps k-man with a DMCA trout on behalf of Beirdo... **

[00:10:42]

wagnerrp:

yeah, each 'crack' only gets a couple of disks out, before they cycle keys again

[00:10:46]

k-man:

is that politicaly incorrect to ask that question here?

[00:10:53]

Beirdo:

careful where ya tread

[00:10:54]

k-man:

wagnerrp: i see

[00:11:10]

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[00:11:23]

wagnerrp:

so anydvd and makemkv keep having to update their software for new disks

[00:11:37]

wagnerrp:

i get emails for new versions of anydvd at least once a week

[00:11:41]

wagnerrp:

usually more often

[00:11:51]

sphery:

and no more lifetime subs

[00:12:00]

** wagnerrp got it before time ran out **

[00:12:10]

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[00:12:47]

** sphery thinks that a STB BluRay player is easier **

[00:12:54]

sphery:

and legal, too

[00:13:55]

** wagnerrp thinks looking at those hddvd/bd cases on the shelf on the wall, and then not having to getting up to to watch one, is easier **

[00:14:12]

sphery:

yeah, the discs are a pain

[00:14:39]

sphery:

but on the bright side, I have so much recorded TV, I seldom ever get around to watching my DVD's :)

[00:15:00]

k-man:

sphery: yeah, same here

[00:15:08]

k-man:

sphery: plus with a new baby, i rarely watch TV now

[00:15:19]

k-man:

and if i do, its usually just the news or something

[00:15:26]

sphery:

yeah, that will take up some time

[00:15:41]

k-man:

i often wonder what on earth I did with my "spare" time before

[00:15:42]

k-man:

hehe

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[00:57:19]

k-man:

hmm... thinking about getting a new hdhomerun

[00:57:52]

k-man:

got one already but they are so good... i might abandon my pci capture cards and just get hdhrs

[01:00:01]

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[01:11:42]

k-man:

what is an hdpvr?

[01:11:55]

wagnerrp:

component analog capture

[01:12:09]

k-man:

oh.. similar to hdhomerun

[01:12:12]

jpabq:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/HDPVR

[01:12:13]

wagnerrp:

no

[01:12:38]

clever:

hdhr is a dual QAM tuner, coax in, mpeg2 stream's (via ethernet) out

[01:12:48]

jpabq:

hdhomerun is a tunner. HD-PVR is a capture device. HD-PVR needs a STB of some sort to do the tuning.

[01:13:07]

k-man:

jpabq: ah, i see, thanks

[01:13:50]

jpabq:

HD-PVR + STB works great for getting otherwise encrypted channels into Myth.

[01:14:02]

k-man:

jpabq: ah, i see, cool

[01:14:16]

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[01:14:48]

clever:

hdhr would probly work for the non-encrypted stuff, like my cableco's video on demand

[01:15:07]

clever:

i can pick up the 10 VOD channels that the entire town is watching, in clear QAM

[01:15:29]

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[01:15:41]

k-man:

clever: interesting

[01:16:07]

clever:

i just hooked up a normal HDTV and did a normal channel scan, now i can see VOD on 93.1 thru 93.10

[01:16:35]

clever:

we get everything on there, movies, dora the explorer (oh god!), and even the ocasional porno! :P

[01:16:48]

wagnerrp:

clever: the VOD stuff is worthless to you

[01:17:05]

clever:

wagnerrp: yeah, they sometimes pause/stop the movie mid way and leave us hanging

[01:17:19]

clever:

and there is no way to predict whats on tomorow

[01:17:24]

wagnerrp:

even if the box-to-headend stuff was unencrypted

[01:17:33]

wagnerrp:

and you could figure out the communication protocol they were using

[01:17:38]

wagnerrp:

the communication is out-of-band

[01:17:50]

wagnerrp:

its on a frequency range you probably dont have the equipment to pick up

[01:18:02]

clever:

the best thing i could do is to use a single QAM tuner and just record the whole damn multiplex

[01:18:08]

clever:

and figure out what i have later

[01:18:18]

k-man:

sounds like a lot of effort

[01:18:22]

clever:

not worth it

[01:18:26]

k-man:

how do these VOD servers work?

[01:18:43]

k-man:

out of interest. do the litteraly have a big HDD and just stream to each user?

[01:18:51]

clever:

k-man: its probly just a video player (like mythtv) that just plays whatever file you request

[01:18:53]

wagnerrp:

the box tells the headend it wants to watch something

[01:18:58]

clever:

and encodes ~10 of them into the multiplex

[01:19:05]

wagnerrp:

the headend responds with a channel to tune in on

[01:19:13]

clever:

each STB gets allocated one channel within the multiplex when 'logging in'

[01:19:30]

k-man:

i can imagine that working for 10 users or so, but when it scales up to hundreds or thousands of users, I wonder how it all works

[01:19:54]

wagnerrp:

because you only have 10 users running on-demand at any given time

[01:19:54]

clever:

ive never seen the full 10 in use all at once

[01:19:59]

wagnerrp:

once you go over that limit

[01:20:08]

wagnerrp:

the users get an error message saying the service is unavailable

[01:20:53]

k-man:

so each suburb would have a small server allocated to a number of users or something

[01:21:09]

wagnerrp:

same way cable internet works

[01:21:30]

wagnerrp:

each block of subscribers gets several channels that they have to share between

[01:21:38]

k-man:

oh, i see

[01:21:43]

wagnerrp:

if the allotment is already consumed by the other users

[01:21:45]

wagnerrp:

too bad

[01:23:01]

wagnerrp:

thats what people mean when they say your internet is shared by you and your hundred (or whatever) closest neighbors

[01:23:38]

wagnerrp:

it doesnt matter how much total bandwidth your cableco is, you have a shared 'last mile'

[01:23:42]

clever:

the broadcast domain for the cable

[01:23:45]

k-man:

yeah

[01:24:30]

wagnerrp:

compare this with DSL, where everyone has their own dedicated 'last mile'

[01:24:39]

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wagnerrp:

now FiOS is a shared architecture, but its limited to 32 endpoints per fiber

[01:26:10]

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[01:26:18]

wagnerrp:

and theyve got 2.4gbps/1.2gbps per 32 subscribers

[01:26:38]

wagnerrp:

so verizon is actually undersubscribed for all levels of service they currently offer

[01:26:58]

wagnerrp:

they have considerably more bandwidth available than could possibly be used by their customers

[01:27:30]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp, think #mythtv might be bindings?

[01:27:32]

kormoc:

I love fios

[01:27:34]

** kormoc weeps **

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Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v Beirdo

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[02:14:53]

k-man:

falling asleep

[02:14:56]

k-man:

need more coffee

[02:15:24]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: thanks for the heads up

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[02:25:55]

mzb:

can anyone tell me if this plays ok? (still uploading)

[02:25:55]

mzb:

http://www.users.on.net/~marcusbrutus/mythtv/ . . . vi_2014.xvid

[02:25:55]

** wagnerrp prods Beirdo **

[02:25:55]

wagnerrp:

your bot isnt updating

[02:26:08]

mzb:

(only 4MB into 348MB ... a) not sure if it will fit, and b) not sure if it will play on other ppl's computers)

[02:27:24]

wagnerrp:

nevermind, its updating now

[02:27:29]

wagnerrp:

web page just seems a bit lagged

[02:28:34]

wagnerrp:

the first seven seconds (5.5MB) play fine

[02:29:12]

oobe:

mzb, the picture is fine but the audio is loud static

[02:29:27]

wagnerrp:

audio works fine here (on windows)

[02:29:37]

oobe:

oh ok well must be me

[02:29:48]

mzb:

hmm ... any suggestions? Trying to alter audio crashes avidemux

[02:29:54]

oobe:

i had the same problem with QT files till i installed quicktime libs

[02:29:58]

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[02:30:06]

wagnerrp:

although the player didnt list what codec it was using for audio

[02:30:08]

wagnerrp:

which is odd

[02:30:15]

wagnerrp:

youre not using raw PCM are you?

[02:30:25]

oobe:

yes i think so

[02:30:52]

oobe:

Selected audio codec: [pcm] afm: pcm (Uncompressed PCM)

[02:30:56]

oobe:

try using mp3 that should work shouldnt it?

[02:31:01]

wagnerrp:

and 5.5mbps is a bit excessive for 640x480

[02:31:06]

wagnerrp:

with xvid

[02:31:07]

mzb:

it's from a canon camera

[02:31:20]

wagnerrp:

a hardware xvid encoder?

[02:31:22]

mzb:

totally

[02:31:25]

oobe:

you can use mencoder in windows

[02:31:32]

wagnerrp:

never thought i would see such a thing

[02:31:36]

mzb:

linux here

[02:31:42]

oobe:

oh cool

[02:31:59]

mzb:

I have trouble converting/compressing the videos from that camera

[02:32:12]

oobe:

do you want the mencoder scripts i use for capturing vhs and converting to dvd complient video?

[02:32:36]

mzb:

sure. anything that helps is great

[02:32:43]

oobe:

they would require some editing but in a nutshell the auto transode on the fly which is handy

[02:32:58]

** oobe makes a tarball **

[02:33:03]

mzb:

ok

[02:34:18]

mzb:

wagnerrp: I meant 5.5mbps is _totally_ excessive

[02:34:28]

mzb:

(lag from upload atm?)

[02:35:05]

oobe:

www.insidiousramblings.com/files/mencoder_scripts.tar.bz2

[02:35:08]

mzb:

(lag==2.7s)

[02:35:14]

mzb:

cool

[02:40:36]

mzb:

thanks oobe. I can't get any oac options to work correctly

[02:40:40]

oobe:

actually these script might be more useful if you already have a raw video file www.insidiousramblings.com/files/ripshow.tar.bz2

[02:41:41]

oobe:

hmm mzb im not sure what to say those scripts are things i made by expirmentation and are meant for example only but im sure you can find what you are looking for using mencoder

[02:42:34]

oobe:

ok i think the original audio source may be the problem it *should* be able to convert it fine

[02:43:09]

mzb:

agreed

[02:43:23]

mzb:

http://forum.doom9.org/archive/index.php/t-129289.html

[02:43:27]

mzb:

*sigh*

[02:43:32]

AndyCap:

isnt xvid just a codec for mpeg-4 like divx?

[02:43:34]

oobe:

try ripshow.sh its does a multipass

[02:44:08]

oobe:

first pass does -oac pcm the second does -oac mp3lame

[02:44:24]

oobe:

AndyCap, yes

[02:45:44]

mzb:

I completely understand the file extension // container name thing ... I simply name it xvid because the original is avi (and in the same dir)

[02:46:25]

mzb:

oobe: ripshow is not in the tarball

[02:46:40]

oobe:

ripshow.sh sorry

[02:46:59]

mzb:

same comment

[02:47:04]

oobe:

oh i made a second link

[02:47:08]

AndyCap:

mzb: nah I was just wondering about the "hardware xvid" thing if it really was xvid or if its some other encoder

[02:47:11]

mzb:

hehe

[02:47:15]

oobe:

but forgot to paste it

[02:47:23]

mzb:

*cackle*

[02:47:23]

oobe:

http://www.insidiousramblings.com/files/ripshow.tar.bz2

[02:47:29]

mzb:

thought it was me ;)

[02:47:38]

oobe:

no just me as usually

[02:47:56]

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[02:47:57]

mzb:

ok, thanks. I'll give it a go

[02:49:34]

mzb:

1st pass running ok

[02:50:16]

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oobe:

they will both run through fine i expect however the end result may be the same

[02:52:28]

oobe:

i can only guess

[02:53:48]

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[02:56:03]

mzb:

hmm, same issue with 2nd run

[02:57:18]

oobe:

is this a dv cam capture?

[02:58:07]

mzb:

no, canon psa590is

[02:58:51]

oobe:

but is the resulting video source dv

[02:59:12]

oobe:

i really dont know a lot about this stuff but i made those scripts for what i use

[02:59:14]

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[02:59:31]

mzb:

recorded video is avi ... don't know anything about dv

[03:01:24]

oobe:

can you give me a sample of the raw recored video

[03:02:11]

mzb:

cut with dd? if so how big?

[03:02:28]

oobe:

like 20 secs

[03:02:36]

mzb:

1MB ?

[03:02:56]

oobe:

anywhere up to 10 i guess

[03:03:02]

oobe:

not too big

[03:03:40]

mzb:

ok, 5MB it is

[03:04:41]

mzb:

that'll take a while to upload ... brb

[03:05:28]

oobe:

it can be small then

[03:05:53]

oobe:

i just need to see video hear sound and try transcoding it

[03:13:54]

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[03:14:18]

mzb:

oobe: http://www.users.on.net/~marcusbrutus/mythtv/ . . . t_at_5MB.avi

[03:14:29]

mzb:

been summoned for tea ... brb10

[03:16:43]

oobe:

thats interesting the first 1 or 2 there is not distortion

[03:23:01]

oobe:

mzb, this works ffmpeg -i mvi_2014_cut_at_5MB.avi -deinterlace -threads 2 -mbd rd -target pal-dvd done.mpg

[03:23:21]

oobe:

you can modify it as you please and make a script

[03:25:30]

oobe:

to convert it from mpeg2 to xvid you can use ripshowws.sh

[03:26:27]

oobe:

here is the resulting file http://www.insidiousramblings.com/files/done.avi

[03:30:25]

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[03:31:19]

oobe:

it wouldnt hard to turn all that into an all in one script

[03:36:39]

mzb:

oobe: lots of "Deinterlacing failed" but seems to work ... thanks very much for your help!

[03:42:40]

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[03:52:34]

oobe:

yea i copied that line from a page somewhere

[03:52:46]

oobe:

i should of took out the deinterlacing stuff

[03:52:47]

mzb:

nice one

[03:53:03]

mzb:

do you suggest a bitrate other than 850?

[03:53:17]

oobe:

850 is reasonable

[03:53:54]

justinh_:

sheesh I just updated my whole backend the other day & there are still updates available :-\

[03:53:57]

oobe:

you will get around 550Mb per hour

[03:54:18]

justinh_:

heh whaddya know it's another kernel update

[03:54:33]

mzb:

ok, thanks again oobe

[03:54:37]

oobe:

np

[03:55:45]

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[03:56:29]

justinh_:

googling this laptop that fails to boot up.. seems it could indeed be the cmos battery. I'd have thought that any bios would at least get as far as displaying *something* even if the battery was dead/not present

[03:56:33]

justinh_ is now known as justinh

[03:57:03]

justinh:

but apparently not. seems a dead battery can cause total deadness. icky

[03:57:27]

mzb:

950MB ==> 93MB ... can't complain about that ;)

[03:58:01]

justinh:

mzb: 950MB for a file captured on a digital camera? Heh that can't be bad quality

[03:58:29]

justinh:

prolly motion jpeg at that size mind, which is basically all DV is

[03:58:31]

mzb:

pfft ... it's _long_ ;)

[03:58:41]

mzb:

oobe: aspect doesn't seem right

[03:59:09]

mzb:

ah ... and audio is 48kHz

[03:59:46]

justinh:

wonder if at some point a genius could come up with a way of showing a user what their transcode settings would do. that'd take a lot of the guesswork out

[03:59:56]

mzb:

if I force playback aspect to 4:3 it looks fine ... I'll re-examine the command line switches

[04:00:50]

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[04:03:27]

oobe:

mzb, yea i noticed that about ripshow.sh so using ripshowws.sh worked

[04:03:41]

mzb:

ok cool

[04:03:59]

mzb:

added -srate and removed crop+scale to see what happens

[04:05:20]

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[04:06:03]

justinh1:

bye bye uptime. hello reboot

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[04:13:02]

justinh:

meh. still reports inappropriate ioctl for device. How were regressions like this ever allowed into the wild?

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[04:18:27]

justinh:

what?! "The -d flag is not permitted by libata"

[04:19:01]

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[04:19:04]

justinh:

that's a new one

[04:19:28]

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[04:49:03]

justinh:

pfft. hdparm still reckons udma6 is being used on this drive but 12MB/sec says maybe not

[04:49:28]

justinh:

and now this is all under the control of the all-seeing kernel I won't be able to just bump the speed down a notch & see if it helps

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[04:59:43]

justinh:

hmmm maybe a stop gap measure (least til I get my new backend online) would be to move /var to a faster disk

[05:00:07]

justinh:

least then myth will be faster

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[05:22:18]

jb_:

hi all

[05:26:03]

jb_:

I was wondering I have two separate backends with separat DB:s can I reconfigure one of them to a slave backend and by that get all the recordings to show up as one?

[05:32:19]

justinh:

you should only ever have one db

[05:34:53]

justinh:

bugger. been barking up the wrong tree the whole time. for some reason I thought / was on /dev/sdc – that's the drive I'm getting slow speeds on (12MB/sec). No. Root is on /dev/sda. Idiot

[05:36:01]

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[05:38:12]

jb_:

justinh, I know but I have my old mythtv with a bunch of unseen recordings and then I also have my new mythtv backend/frontend and Id like to move all the unseen recordings from my old mythtv machine to my new one ...

[05:38:36]

justinh:

that's going to involve some database manipulation, then

[05:39:43]

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[05:43:19]

jb_:

justinh, ahh I see is it that partial DB restore etc... thing ?

[05:46:34]

justinh:

no

[05:46:56]

justinh:

it's going to be messy

[05:48:59]

justinh:

you need to 1. export the recorded table from the old database & change the hostname entries to that of the new machine 2. copy the video files to the new machine. 3. import the table contents to the recorded table on the new machine

[05:50:16]

justinh:

there are limitations with that approach – mainly that you'll be mangling data somewhat manually – which is V risky – and for correct info to be transferred it relies on the channel data in both databases being the same – which is fine unless you don't mind the channel data being wrong (e.g. saying a show was recorded on BBC3 instead of BBC1, say)

[05:50:59]

justinh:

there's always mytharchive's native export feature.. but I've never used it. do a native export of recordings on the old machine, import recordings on the new machine...

[05:51:29]

justinh:

and check the wiki.. there might already be a howto guide for this

[05:54:24]

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[05:55:01]

jb_:

justinh, Ive read alot on the wiki and then yesterday I just thouth of the reconfigure to slave, but it sounds like Ill have to do it with nuvexport, the problem I have with that besides time consuming is that I did mythrename.pl on about half the recordings and I got some nordic characters in the names and now nuvexport cant find them and I have not found any solution on how to convert them back in to the old numerical name ...

[05:55:42]

toxster:

I have 2 tuners in my system, i have set up both cards, and i think i have set it up correct, but when i record a program, i cannot change to another channel on another transponder, im using dvb-s any ideas?

[05:56:39]

justinh:

jb_: FWIW I'd cut my losses

[05:57:03]

justinh:

learn a valuable lesson. Don't mess with mythrename. It should never have been made except for making symlinks

[05:57:40]

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[05:58:39]

jb_:

justinh, Id guess... thanks for trying to help :-)

[05:58:57]

justinh:

jb_: as I already said the best way will involve DB mangling

[05:59:29]

justinh:

copy the files you need. then export the recorded table with the relevant entries. you'll need to change the hostname field though

[06:00:02]

justinh:

or copy the files, export the old recorded table entries & import them to the new db. then change the old hostname to the new hostname in the recorded table

[06:00:27]

justinh:

you'll also need to rebuild the seektables for the transferred recordings using mythcommflag

[06:00:40]

justinh:

it's all hackish but not something any user should ever have to do

[06:01:49]

justinh:

and yeah I think there *is* a wiki article about transferring old recordings to a new host

[06:02:45]

jb_:

dont sound that fun, cuz I might screew up my present mythtv, I guess I will make a mencoder script and run it locally on my old mythtv machine and then move the output to my video directory on the new machine. its less hackish and may be safer :-)

[06:03:56]

justinh:

jb_: so back up the database first, then it's safe

[06:04:24]

jb_:

justinh, thanks for all the help

[06:07:20]

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[06:08:09]

sid3windr:

and the fish!

[06:10:29]

justinh:

WHAT? according to mount, /dev/sdc1 is / but in my /etc/fstab /dev/sda1 is supposed to be /

[06:11:08]

justinh:

I'm very confused now

[06:12:23]

justinh:

hdparm & sdparm -i both report /dev/sda as a samsung 1TB disk & /dev/sdc as a maxtor 160GB disk

[06:12:53]

justinh:

oh jesus

[06:13:01]

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[06:14:45]

justinh:

/dev/sdb1 932G 564G 368G 61% /myth

[06:14:46]

justinh:

/dev/sda1 932G 814G 118G 88% /video

[06:14:56]

justinh:

that isn't what's supposed to happen according to fstab

[06:14:59]

justinh:

WTH

[06:15:11]

justinh:

and why haven't I ever noticed this craziness before?!

[06:17:14]

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[06:19:00]

justinh:

this is what I get for mixing pata & sata in one machine

[06:19:39]

justinh:

oh wait. DUH. stupid git. it's UUIDs not device nodes. Smack!

[06:21:51]

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[06:40:46]

ServerSage:

Hey folks, my PVR-250 just kicked the bucket so I'm in the market for a replacement. Thought I'd throw the question out here and see what the consensus is. I'm currently recording from a SD cable STB, but have HD available. The system currently has the PVR-350 recording from cable and an ATI USB HD tuner recording OTA. So, suggestions?

[06:41:08]

ServerSage:

Oops, that 350 should be 250. :)

[06:51:39]

justinh:

pvr150 from ebay? :)

[06:52:11]

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[07:36:05]

jaypetey:

Does anyone know where I can find my mythtv user (as in the user: mythtv) password?

[07:51:13]

Hoxzer:

you can change it easily

[07:56:26]

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[07:58:19]

justinh:

you can't find the password. that's called *security*

[07:59:37]

toxster:

no ideas why my dual tuner setup wont allow me to watch other channels then the ones from the transponder that's being recorded? (dvb-s, 2 output from dish, 2 separate tuners) :(

[08:00:15]

justinh:

if anybody had, they'd have said on all the times you'd previously asked

[08:00:22]

justinh:

:-\

[08:00:51]

at0m:

jaypetey: man passwd

[08:00:53]

toxster:

yeah, weird though this is what mythtv should be ideal to use, record one while watching on the other card

[08:01:00]

toxster:

i wonder if its dvb-s related

[08:01:08]

toxster:

considering its a transponder issue, i must say yes

[08:01:29]

justinh:

stop using live tv. problem solved :)

[08:01:33]

toxster:

hehe

[08:01:42]

justinh:

oh you laugh. I was being serious

[08:01:44]

at0m:

record what you want to watch =]

[08:01:57]

at0m:

toxster: maybe check default card. and there's more card selection options, like "allow live tv to be moved for recording"

[08:02:09]

at0m:

s/for/by

[08:02:16]

toxster:

at0m: is that setting in mythtv-setup ?

[08:02:27]

at0m:

not sure, i'd guess

[08:03:18]

toxster:

I have 2 capture cards, 1 video source (for EIT), 2 inmput connectors, and the share the same input group

[08:03:21]

at0m:

ie. you could, for a try, set the second card as default for recording

[08:03:43]

at0m:

in case live-tv doesnt switch to the second while first is being recorded from

[08:03:50]

toxster:

i have looked around for that setting, where is it ? on the card? (connected and looking...)

[08:04:01]

toxster:

yeah thats what's happening

[08:04:15]

toxster:

both cards work, if i do live tv, and press m i can switch inputs

[08:04:19]

toxster:

but not when recording

[08:04:58]

at0m:

go check mythtv-setup for a workaround then

[08:06:31]

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[08:07:27]

toxster:

should i setup 2 input groups ?

[08:07:44]

toxster:

both are set to "generic" now

[08:11:18]

toxster:

i can test it remotely by not being able to record 2 shows at the same time

[08:11:38]

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[08:12:38]

toxster:

nm it seems to work with recording 2 channels at the same time, i wonder if my adding of a new input group separating the cards did the trick

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[08:19:22]

toxster:

yupp that was what caused it

[08:19:28]

toxster:

same input group = bad in dual tuner setup'

[08:25:44]

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[08:38:21]

mzb:

toxster: I don't think that's true. I've got 4–5 tuners and they're all in the same group.

[08:39:19]

mzb:

do you know if your dish is _dual_lnb_ or just dual output?

[08:39:58]

mzb:

if the latter, then the problem is more likely to be that you're only able to tune to a single multiplex

[08:40:14]

mzb:

which also means that dual tuners is a complete waste of time

[08:41:13]

mzb:

s/is/are

[08:41:31]

jaypetey:

Can anyone tell me what I need to import in order to use the Job Python bindings as found here: http://mythtv.org/wiki/0.22_Python_bindings/Job

[08:44:37]

jaypetey:

Nevermind, sorry, just found it (realized it's a class within the MythTV module itself)

[08:56:36]

justinh:

import flashy3D-ui-fx

[09:03:18]

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[10:04:36]

justinh:

oh gawd. Folks are gunning to get Slade into the music charts "for chariddy". Just ask people to donate. No need to further the careers of Brummie has-beens

[10:14:56]

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[10:22:01]

oobe:

mzb, are you from tasmania?

[10:23:32]

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[10:23:50]

mzb:

oobe: yes

[10:23:53]

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[10:24:14]

oobe:

i knew you were in aus just didnt know where thats cool

[10:24:23]

oobe:

i dont know anyone from tassie

[10:25:08]

mzb:

:)

[10:25:13]

mzb:

very pretty place

[10:25:37]

oobe:

yea would be

[10:25:53]

oobe:

im in melb at the moment

[10:26:02]

oobe:

but i move around a bit

[10:26:33]

mzb:

I lived in Melb for a couple of years ... totally different

[10:27:04]

oobe:

yeah i imagine so

[10:27:46]

oobe:

did you end up encoding all your captures?

[10:28:17]

oobe:

oh what is jabber_myth.tar.gz

[10:28:42]

mzb:

um, I wrote a jabber bot

[10:28:47]

mzb:

need to finish it off

[10:29:07]

mzb:

you can do searches with it, and it returns paginated results

[10:29:19]

mzb:

then you can select by line numbers

[10:29:21]

oobe:

what is it for like a help bot for this channel

[10:29:57]

mzb:

no, so I can (eventually) do jabber messages to/from my mobile phone to control tv

[10:30:49]

oobe:

oh ok

[10:30:53]

mzb:

ie: Mother-in-Law says "Forgot to record 'Some Stupid Show'" and I type in "find Some Stupid Show"

[10:31:02]

mzb:

=> results printed

[10:31:06]

oobe:

yeah i dont know what jabber is i just heard the bot part

[10:31:13]

mzb:

I type: record 1 3

[10:31:19]

oobe:

from any location?

[10:31:25]

mzb:

jabber == instant messaging

[10:31:27]

mzb:

yes

[10:31:53]

mzb:

better/easier than a web page, I figured

[10:32:09]

mzb:

just never finished it ... only needs the recording part done

[10:32:24]

oobe:

that will be so awesome i bet you will get a lot of users

[10:32:24]

mzb:

all the search+pagination+selection(?) work already

[10:32:46]

mzb:

it's on my private jabber server

[10:32:56]

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[10:33:03]

justinh:

what on earth is jabber?

[10:33:21]

mzb:

an open source IM protocol

[10:33:32]

mzb:

which I've got run so that it talks to the native IM client on my Nokia e51

[10:34:51]

justinh:

hmm bet you could do a similar trick with the twitter api

[10:35:01]

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[10:35:43]

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[10:36:00]

mzb:

probably ... I don't do twitter (yet?)

[10:37:00]

justinh:

while ago I thought it might be sort of cool to be able to SMS the mythbox to say "record BBC1 7pm today" or something – but free sms gateway stuff just wasn't practical

[10:37:04]

justinh:

now with twitter, it is :)

[10:37:18]

mzb:

same concept

[10:37:41]

mzb:

s/sms/jabber

[10:37:51]

justinh:

tried mobile mythweb & it's okay but most phones are crap at web stuff

[10:38:13]

justinh:

scroll. scroll. scroll. scroll. scroll. scroll

[10:38:53]

justinh:

well maybe not most phones. but every phone I've ever had which has internet access :)

[10:39:27]

mzb:

yep

[10:39:47]

justinh:

most times I've needed to schedule something when I'm away from home I know what time/channel I need anyway

[10:39:59]

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[10:40:02]

mzb:

this jabber bot has (configurable) page lengths for message lists

[10:40:14]

justinh:

I'd love a smartphone but they just seem like expensive toys I can't justify

[10:40:41]

mzb:

and either the screen's too big, or the res is too low ;)

[10:40:55]

mzb:

nokia e51 is about right for me

[10:41:08]

mzb:

no point in getting higher res ... I'd never see it

[10:41:32]

mzb:

so a text solution for doing mobile<==>mythtv is my pref.

[10:41:59]

jarle:

hehe, mythtv found 134(!) commercial breaks in my latest Mythbusters recording :)

[10:42:19]

mzb:

as I've no longer got free SMS jabber seemed like the way to go

[10:42:21]

oobe:

gee they play a lot of ads these days

[10:42:25]

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[10:42:26]

mzb:

hehe

[10:43:57]

mzb:

you reckon 2x 5W LEDs (cool white, 120 degree, 240 lumen) are enough for a 2.4mx2.4m room?

[10:44:23]

justinh:

10W ? maybe equivalent to 60W incandescent

[10:44:47]

mzb:

I was guessing more like 100W

[10:44:53]

mzb:

(and very white!)

[10:45:16]

justinh:

seen a variety of figures. none of them seem willing to compare directly to real bulbs so I'm suspicious

[10:46:08]

mzb:

yeah ... that's why I'm having trouble

[10:46:18]

mzb:

wikipedia says: "A 60 W incandescent bulb offers about 850 lumens, or 14 lumens/W."

[10:46:38]

mzb:

I think it's mostly because of the "directionality" of the globes.

[10:47:03]

mzb:

and incandescent sends light everywhere ... an LED sends it (normally) in a narrow beam

[10:47:38]

mzb:

(like comparing candles to torches, I guess;)

[10:49:52]

mzb:

then again, another wikipedia page says "A 13 watt LED lamp produces 450 to 650 lumens which is equivalent to a standard 40 watt incandescent bulb."

[10:50:10]

AndyCap:

dBi :P

[10:50:15]

mzb:

:)

[10:50:23]

mzb:

I hear ya ;)

[10:51:07]

AndyCap:

someone must have done something like that for light?

[10:52:01]

AndyCap:

ah, "a light source that uniformly radiates one candela in all directions radiates a total of 4? lumens"

[10:52:35]

mzb:

"New 9W LED Bulb Can Replace 70W Incandescent"

[10:52:39]

AndyCap:

but I guess its useless after the marketing department got done with it

[10:52:59]

justinh:

they all make useless claims like that

[10:53:06]

justinh:

look at CFL... pfft

[10:53:42]

justinh:

best advice I'd be able to give is do what I'm gonna do. Guess, and if it ain't enough get more :)

[10:54:01]

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[10:59:05]

mzb:

yep

[10:59:09]

mzb:

http://www.designrecycleinc.com/led%20comp%20chart.html

[10:59:23]

mzb:

http://www.jasonmorrison.net/content/2009/how . . . ncandescent/

[11:01:12]

mzb:

I'm down to (probably) either getting 2x 5W (unique LED), or multiple 60x or 70x cheapies

[11:01:26]

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[11:02:03]

mzb:

the angle on the multiples is much narrower

[11:02:12]

justinh:

sure I read something somewhere about real bright LED bulbs being a possibility soon

[11:02:23]

justinh:

and omnidirectional :)

[11:02:38]

mzb:

hehe ... sorry, I'll need to see as soon as I put the ceiling up!

[11:02:54]

mzb:

(timber et al arriving tomorrow)

[11:03:06]

mzb:

err... 7–8 hrs

[11:03:30]

mzb:

I'd prefer to cut as few holes as possible

[11:03:31]

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[11:04:27]

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[11:04:36]

mzb:

and that all needs to be done before I plaster and paint (I think) ... hard to tell as I'm making a lot of it up as I go :)

[11:04:40]

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[11:05:52]

justinh:

hmm plastering ceilings. arghhh

[11:06:39]

mzb:

plaster sheet but .... yeah you get it ;)

[11:06:53]

mzb:

got more stud walls to make first

[11:07:06]

justinh:

I'm better at skimming than I am at using joining tape & filler

[11:07:10]

justinh:

go figure

[11:07:17]

mzb:

hehe

[11:07:23]

IRA_36:

what do u skim?

[11:07:26]

IRA_36:

muthtv?

[11:07:38]

mzb:

insects out of the pool?

[11:08:09]

justinh:

vot ees dees muthtv?

[11:08:34]

mzb:

bit like building a shed I guess, but made harder by the laundry wall, the floor joists above, the half-height brick wall on 2 sides, 2 large supports .... and so on

[11:08:38]

justinh:

and vye dos your irc nick look like a tourist organisation?

[11:08:52]

mzb:

here we go ... 280 lumen's

[11:09:06]

mzb:

*cackle*

[11:09:28]

IRA_36:

are u talking about my nick?

[11:10:01]

justinh:

remind me to look under my car before I drive home

[11:10:07]

IRA_36:

it mean im 36 and IRA mean Iranian Republican Army

[11:10:11]

mzb:

rats ... quoted at 13V supply

[11:10:45]

justinh:

Iranian/Irish.. not likely to make me feel sympathetic either way

[11:11:08]

iamlindoro:

You should be concerned, justinh

[11:11:16]

iamlindoro:

since his IP indicates that Iran has invaded america

[11:11:36]

** iamlindoro rushes to the nearest gun store **

[11:11:55]

justinh:

that shouldn't take too long. I mean they have them every couple of houses right?

[11:11:59]

mzb:

I'm surprised the Iranian Army watch TV at all ... let alone use mythtv to do it ;)

[11:12:15]

AndyCap:

justinh: surprised he doesnt have one in his house

[11:12:18]

IRA_36:

his ip maybe fake right?

[11:12:20]

IRA_36:

#:)

[11:12:31]

justinh:

heh my wife still actually doesn't believe me that Walmart sell guns & ammo..

[11:13:00]

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[11:13:13]

IRA_36:

few months more and there will be no usa no mythtv no nothing

[11:13:29]

justinh:

oooo

[11:13:32]

IRA_36:

:)

[11:13:58]

justinh:

IRA_36: our own goverments have been trying to scare us witless for years. What difference do you think you'll make? ;-)

[11:14:07]

IRA_36:

:)

[11:14:09]

IRA_36:

hahah

[11:15:25]

justinh:

s/hahah/Muhahahahahahaha\ die\ infidel\ pig\ MuhahahahahAHAHAHAHAHA/

[11:16:17]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +o iamlindoro

[11:16:21]

IRA_36 has been kicked from #mythtv-users by iamlindoro!~iamlindor@unaffiliated/iamlindoro (IRA_36)

[11:16:38]

iamlindoro:

There I go trying to be the policeman of the world again

[11:16:40]

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[11:16:42]

iamlindoro:

I'm such a bully

[11:16:50]

justinh:

go Team America!

[11:17:01]

iamlindoro:

America, Eff yeah

[11:17:26]

** iamlindoro preemptively remains op'ed **

[11:17:43]

justinh:

last time I had to take a bus somewhere I found out there's a place near Oldham called Derker. I pondered whether it was 'as in Derker Derker' ;-)

[11:17:55]

iamlindoro:

haha

[11:18:04]

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[11:18:09]

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[11:18:23]

** iamlindoro reloads **

[11:18:24]

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[11:18:25]

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[11:18:47]

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[11:18:49]

IRA_36 has been kicked from #mythtv-users by iamlindoro!~iamlindor@unaffiliated/iamlindoro (IRA_36)

[11:18:56]

iamlindoro:

nuclear option!

[11:19:15]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : -o iamlindoro

[11:19:29]

** iamlindoro yawns and waits for him to "hijack" another IP **

[11:20:02]

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[11:20:04]

iamlindoro:

In fairness, it's South Carolina so that's *barely* America

[11:20:06]

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[11:20:16]

justinh:

lol

[11:20:21]

AndyCap:

o_O

[11:20:22]

mzb:

apart from "no usa" etc ... what did he do wrong?

[11:20:28]

Obama:

<justinh> what do u do kid?

[11:20:50]

justinh:

I'm the resident troll. what's your excuse?

[11:21:07]

Obama:

u are kid why did u kick IRA?

[11:21:12]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +o iamlindoro

[11:21:21]

Obama:

u will be kicked from america back to mexico

[11:21:28]

justinh:

you mean *you* ? heh

[11:21:47]

Mode for #mythtv-users by iamlindoro!~iamlindor@unaffiliated/iamlindoro : +b *!camelot*@*

[11:21:51]

Obama:

i was watching so i saw what u did and it was not nice

[11:21:55]

Obama has been kicked from #mythtv-users by iamlindoro!~iamlindor@unaffiliated/iamlindoro (Obama)

[11:22:05]

iamlindoro:

Shame, I always liked that Obama

[11:22:08]

mzb:

hmm

[11:22:15]

justinh:

somebody must think I'm iamlindoro's sock puppet or something

[11:22:18]

skd5aner:

wtf is going on here?

[11:22:36]

skd5aner:

::head scratch::

[11:22:46]

mzb:

I'm trying to figure that out myself

[11:23:03]

justinh:

it all got a bit surreal after .. oh wait it's my fault. heh

[11:23:22]

mzb:

tbh your language was worse

[11:24:11]

justinh:

huh? I didn't cuss or nuffink

[11:24:13]

iamlindoro:

mzb, he violated our profanity and civility rules, last thing I need is people here questioning how the rules are applied

[11:24:45]

justinh:

I've not even preceeded FS with the letter F for ages

[11:25:18]

justinh:

if this is gonna turn into some tirade about how I hate freedom because of something or other I'll just leave now

[11:25:37]

skd5aner:

you're free to leave

[11:25:37]

mzb:

I'm not asking how the rules are applied, or even what the rules are ... I'm asking what _either_ of the people you kicked did to earn a kick? (and a ban)

[11:25:38]

skd5aner:

;)

[11:25:39]

skd5aner:

haha

[11:26:03]

AndyCap:

bzzz. you are fined one credit for violating the spoken morality standard

[11:26:46]

iamlindoro:

mzb, a) Don't need to explain my choice of bans, b) he was obviously trolling and I didn't feel like indulging it, c) he discussed illegal behavior (hacking), d) he broke our rule on civility, e) he broke our rule on profanity

[11:26:56]

jamesd2:

i think they deserve double there money back... how much did they pay again to be here?

[11:27:05]

justinh:

skd5aner: wouldn't believe it but apparently this network frowns on permanent bans. So I keep coming back

[11:27:33]

skd5aner:

justinh: maybe you're a terminator?

[11:28:04]

justinh:

maybe my veering into a dodgy german stereotype accent is what brought it all on. I vill be more careful in ze future

[11:28:23]

mzb:

iamlindoro: thanks for explaining.

[11:28:42]

skd5aner:

Nein

[11:29:01]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : -o iamlindoro

[11:29:16]

skd5aner:

no vy vould you vant to do zat?!

[11:29:52]

skd5aner:

OH NO! HE'S RELOADING AGAIN!!! DUCK FOR COVER!!!!

[11:29:54]

skd5aner:

:D

[11:29:56]

mzb:

I don't agree, nor will I vote for you or your policies in the election ... oh wait ... ;))

[11:30:09]

skd5aner:

oh -o, not +o – ALL CLEAR!

[11:30:15]

justinh:

heh they have talk like a pirate day... maybe hollywood nazi day would catch on

[11:31:03]

skd5aner:

sounds reasonable – maybe facebook could set that to a language "English (Hollywood Nazi)"

[11:31:46]

justinh:

though it might need some clarification. People might misinterpret it as 'talk like Tom Cruise day'

[11:32:06]

skd5aner:

Does that mean everyone gets nicknamed goose?

[11:33:05]

mzb:

aren't they all too young to remember Top Gun? ;) (ps: wasn't Goose the wingman?)

[11:33:31]

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[11:33:56]

justinh:

I wish I was too young to remember Top Gun

[11:33:57]

skd5aner:

Yea, but it wouldn't make sense for people talking like Tom Cruise to call others "Maverick"

[11:34:05]

justinh:

or just that I didn't remember seeing it.. I'm not sure

[11:35:09]

mzb:

skd5aner: hmm ... that logic could get very confusing if they were all talking like Hollywood Nazi's

[11:41:08]

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[12:07:55]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: it's on a linode, so sometimes apache gets swapped out, I have a lot of stuff running on there :)

[12:08:51]

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[12:11:20]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: i got a bit worried there for a second

[12:11:34]

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[12:11:41]

wagnerrp:

'wait, why is he talking to me... how does he know i _just_ woke up and sat down at the computer'

[12:13:01]

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[12:21:35]

Beirdo:

hehe

[12:21:45]

Beirdo:

because I just got up a little bit ago :)

[12:21:46]

Beirdo:

hehe

[12:22:08]

Beirdo:

interviews start in just over an hour. time to get dressed and go :)

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[13:30:05]

shadash:

does this look fast enough to handle data from a frontend to a backend? http://www.brite-view.com/linke.php

[13:31:08]

wagnerrp:

why would you want to?

[13:34:14]

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[13:36:59]

shadash:

b/c I already have power plugs

[13:37:30]

shadash:

it's a clean way to do networking with exising hardware

[13:37:55]

wagnerrp:

its a dirty way to do the networking, but out of sight, out of mind

[13:38:02]

jams:

yeah i don't know. I often hear those things can't be trusted with older wiring

[13:38:26]

wagnerrp:

or newer wiring, or with anything but clean grid power

[13:38:31]

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[13:38:37]

wagnerrp:

they work, they dont work great

[13:39:54]

jams:

much trouble as x10 has running over power lines I wouldn't trust those devices

[13:39:58]

wagnerrp:

if you have the time to run wires, do so

[13:39:58]

shadash:

so it prob all comes down to how the house is currently wired

[13:40:02]

wagnerrp:

you will not regret it

[13:40:19]

wagnerrp:

everyone has the capability of running wires

[13:40:28]

jams:

even if you have it along the baseboard it's worth it

[13:40:34]

shadash:

but why if you don't need to

[13:40:35]

wagnerrp:

you may have to get creative

[13:40:42]

wagnerrp:

if you cant go into the walls, run along the baseboard

[13:40:56]

wagnerrp:

get raceways and conduits that can be painted to match the walls

[13:41:05]

wagnerrp:

hollow out the baseboard and stuff the cables there

[13:41:07]

jams:

"everyone has the capability of running wires"..hehe not everyone but the majority of people

[13:41:20]

wagnerrp:

get plenum rated cable, and run it through the ductwork

[13:41:35]

jams:

along the baseboard just under the carpet works as well

[13:41:40]

shadash:

I feel it's better to just buy a house that's already wired. Makes things much easier

[13:42:08]

jams:

running through the ductwork is ok..but only if you never plan on cleaning them

[13:42:49]

wagnerrp:

the problem with ductwork is that if you use non-plenum rated, they will burn and give off toxic fumes

[13:42:56]

jams:

the cleaning process at some point will snap the cables

[13:43:02]

wagnerrp:

which will be spread through the house through the ductwork

[13:43:03]

jams:

or hinder the cleaning process

[13:43:17]

jams:

overall I don't recommend running in the ductwork

[13:43:30]

jams:

but it can be done if you want

[13:43:31]

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[13:43:43]

wagnerrp:

i haev a friend who just bought a house

[13:43:53]

wagnerrp:

he was very happy to find the phone lines had been run with cat5e

[13:44:08]

jams:

i bet he was

[13:44:15]

wagnerrp:

just went down to the junction box in the basement, crimped on new connectors, and was ready to go

[13:44:16]

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[13:44:45]

jams:

first thing I did here, was pull out all the phone cord and run new lines to all the rooms. Two cat5e to all rooms

[13:45:07]

wagnerrp:

yeah, i really should have run a lot more while i had the chance

[13:45:16]

wagnerrp:

but every so often, ive got to go back and pull another lead

[13:45:53]

wagnerrp:

although at least now im doing it right, and have everything wired up to a patch panel in the basement

[13:46:23]

jams:

i put rj11 on the ends of the phone lines, jsut so they wouldn't be confused for network, but it's cat5e all the way to the panel

[13:46:40]

jams:

we dont' even use the phone lines..but maybe the next owner will

[13:47:06]

jams:

structured wiring is the only way to do

[13:47:08]

jams:

go

[13:47:12]

wagnerrp:

yeah, we only actually use three of our lines

[13:47:22]

wagnerrp:

one hard phone, and two cordless base stations

[13:47:44]

jams:

we use two..one wireless base station and the fax

[13:47:55]

jams:

the hardline sits in a box until we need it

[13:48:13]

jams:

and thats in the basement next to the patch panel

[13:50:00]

jams:

only time we ever used it was when troubleshooting noise on the line

[13:50:22]

jams:

which turned out to be a birds next built in a splice box 3/4 of a mile away

[13:50:27]

jams:

birds nest

[13:51:37]

jams:

that one had att replacing all sorts of lines and running tests. Mostly because it wasn't constant and never seemed to occur when they were here.

[14:01:50]

** sphery wonders if the lack of people offering samples for #7515 ( http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/426736#426736 ) is due to the reason he suspects... **

[14:02:16]

sphery:

After all, 3 people have indicated they're affected by it in the last day.

[14:02:46]

iamlindoro:

People using .srt files for legit use are probably about as common as people downloading linux distros with P2P

[14:03:09]

sphery:

So, 99.9999% of those who engage in such activity?

[14:03:11]

wagnerrp:

yeah, ive got _one_ film that i legitimately use them with

[14:03:33]

iamlindoro:

I have a few .srt files that I made in my early Blu ray ripping days

[14:03:37]

iamlindoro:

that was a PAIN

[14:03:40]

wagnerrp:

and even then, im not legitimately using them because i have the subtitles bundled up with the mkv

[14:03:40]

sphery:

well, if it's affected, it would be great if you could make a sample for elmojo as I doubt he'll get any samples from the stealy crowd

[14:03:50]

iamlindoro:

and I had to use a windows VM to use the tool to do the OCR

[14:04:00]

wagnerrp:

yeah, it took like half an hour to train subrip for each character it came up against

[14:04:16]

iamlindoro:

even then, it's for a couple Korean movies and a Chinese movie... and now that we have Blu ray subtitle support, yay, I don't need them any more

[14:04:31]

sphery:

You should distribute the workload... We could put the images on websites all over the 'net. We'll call it ReCAPTCHA!

[14:04:34]

sphery:

oh, wait....

[14:04:46]

iamlindoro:

sphery: I can test to see if it's afected, but TBH I have never had an issue with .srts

[14:04:50]

iamlindoro:

so I'm not sure what to look for

[14:05:02]

sphery:

yeah, if it's hard to test, no biggie

[14:05:02]

iamlindoro:

I do still have the subs

[14:05:25]

sphery:

after all, getting support for files that are generally only used by the wrong crowd isn't the goal

[14:05:53]

iamlindoro:

I can make a sample and elmojo can play with it if it's of any help to him, just not sure it will exhibit the issue

[14:06:54]

sphery:

your call...

[14:07:12]

sphery:

it's your time, and--as you mentioned--the files aren't often used legitimately

[14:07:30]

iamlindoro:

Uploading now, just can't promise that the sample is affected/worthwhile

[14:09:20]

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[14:10:48]

sphery:

thanks for your time, at least

[14:10:56]

iamlindoro:

meh, anything but working ;)

[14:19:41]

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[14:39:17]

Jay2k1:

Hi! I have a htpc that's both backend and frontend. I am using mythwelcome; I want it to start the FE when i switch on the pc but it shouldn't start it when the pc starts itself to perform a scheduled recording. however, i couldn't manage to get this behaviour working.

[14:39:58]

Jay2k1:

so i wrote a script that I start on logon, instead of starting mythwelcome, that first starts mythwelcome and then tries to determine if we were started automatically or by user.

[14:40:28]

Jay2k1:

when I use mythshutdown --startup, it keeps on returning 1

[14:41:04]

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[14:41:09]

Jay2k1:

so, in the backend, where i can define a startup command, i set "echo $status > /all/startup.txt" (/all has 777)

[14:41:45]

Jay2k1:

and in my startup script, i keep on checking this file until it contains either "auto" or "user", then start the fe (or not), then delete /all/startup.txt.

[14:42:11]

Jay2k1:

but even the backend reports the wrong value in like 20% of the times.

[14:42:56]

Jay2k1:

i guess i'm not the only one who wants to use this "feature", so is there anyone that could get it to work?

[14:44:02]

Jay2k1:

or is there any hint as to how mythbackend determines $status or how mythshutdown --status gets its data? or how mythwelcome determines whether it was started automatically or not?

[14:45:19]

sphery:

ugghhh... http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1595 . . . etting-3d-tv

[14:47:18]

sphery:

Jay2k1: I think you'll need to modify the backend's algorithm for determining whether we're starting automatically or manually. TTBOMK, that algorithm is, "If a recording starts within 15 minutes, it must be auto-startup."

[14:48:05]

sphery:

Jay2k1: see ./programs/mythbackend/scheduler.cpp and search for AUTO-Startup assumed

[14:48:24]

iamlindoro:

sphery: What, you don't want to wear steampunk style goggles to watch TV?

[14:48:54]

sphery:

I /really/ don't want someone telling me I need to buy a new TV

[14:49:03]

sphery:

and I /really/ don't want LCD to win the HDTV wars

[14:49:41]

sphery:

and I /really/ don't want projectors to become an unacceptable display tech for TV (nor need to buy a 3D projector)

[14:49:51]

sphery:

I want 3D TV to die

[14:50:01]

iamlindoro:

That ship may have sailed

[14:50:03]

sphery:

3D in the theater is OK, but beyond that...

[14:50:19]

iamlindoro:

Though notably there *are* 3D Projectors on the way

[14:50:47]

iamlindoro:

Though affordable + 1080p + 3D is still a pipe dream

[14:51:06]

sphery:

Jay2k1: OK, it's 16mins by default. 1min + "Max. wait for recording (min)" (as specified in mythtv-setup)

[14:51:25]

sphery:

no, wait, just plain "Max. wait for recording (min)"

[14:51:29]

sphery:

so it is 15min

[14:51:49]

iamlindoro:

Personally I don't mind if the next TV I buy has 3D capability, but it seems to me that the ability to watch 3D content on plain 2D televisions is a requirement

[14:52:11]

iamlindoro:

ie, nobody should *need* a 3DTV to watch any content-- it should just enhance it when possible

[14:52:21]

sphery:

Jay2k1: You can modify the Max wait time ("The amount of time the master backend waits for a recording. If it's idle but a recording starts within this time period, the backends won't shut down." but doing so will have other effects.

[14:52:22]

Jay2k1:

thanks for looking that up

[14:52:51]

sphery:

iamlindoro: but the government can just promise us a converter box for $40 or less

[14:53:04]

iamlindoro:

hrh

[14:53:04]

iamlindoro:

heh

[14:53:24]

sphery:

and then take $X billion of my tax dollars and give coupons to people who see, "government" and "free" and get it--whether they need it or not (usually not)

[14:53:55]

sphery:

you may note a little bit of resentment in my comment, there

[14:54:17]

iamlindoro:

The Spic^H^H^H^H Television must flow

[14:54:22]

sphery:

heh

[14:56:56]

jamesd2:

the better question is how many of those digital converter boxes actually got connected to new lcd tv's thinking they needed them....

[14:57:05]

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[14:58:47]

sphery:

Jay2k1: looks like the best solution if you don't want to edit code is to set MythShutdownWakeupTime to blank to indicate user-initiated startup.

[14:59:47]

sphery:

jamesd2: Yeah, I'd bet a huge number did.

[15:00:02]

sphery:

not to mention all the ones that got shoved in the closet

[15:00:07]

sphery:

or thrown away

[15:02:03]

jamesd2:

last i heard something like 30% of all the coupon cards never even got used

[15:02:40]

sphery:

wonder what happened to the money for those 30%

[15:05:30]

jamesd2:

got migrated back to the general fund or some other fund that is just a line on a report, that wont be accounted for years... its only a few million no one cares.. all the major items end with b's for billions

[15:06:36]

sphery:

heh, or T's for trillions, in today's world

[15:09:13]

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[15:25:29]

Jay2k1:

sphery: it is already empty

[15:28:04]

sphery:

then back to "find a better algorithm"

[15:28:06]

sphery:

:)

[15:31:41]

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[15:32:29]

^Willie^:

Hi there

[15:32:45]

wagnerrp:

what is a 'DC10', besides a commercial aircraft?

[15:32:49]

^Willie^:

any one in here that have managed video output on an dc10 via v4l ?

[15:33:05]

^Willie^:

wagnerrp: your still young or you just dunno ?

[15:33:17]

^Willie^:

wagnerrp: google again dc10 v4l

[15:33:23]

^Willie^:

it is an pinacle video cutter

[15:33:48]

sphery:

wagnerrp: yeah, it's not the channel's job to do your Googling for you

[15:33:55]

sphery:

oh, wait, who's the one asking for help

[15:34:00]

wagnerrp:

so its a capture card?

[15:34:02]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: Rudeness won't be tolerated here, particularly of channel operators/developers-- please remain courteous if you would like help

[15:34:11]

iamlindoro:

er ^Willie^

[15:34:11]

wagnerrp:

why would you want to output from a capture card?

[15:34:16]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: my bad ;)

[15:34:19]

sphery:

^Willie^: iamlindoro's comment was for you

[15:34:30]

^Willie^:

wagnerrp: cause it is more then just capture :S

[15:35:01]

^Willie^:

sphery: and in what way must i be rude ?

[15:35:29]

wagnerrp:

im trying to help you, and you tell me to 'go google it'

[15:35:29]

iamlindoro:

You must be rude in *no* way if you want to remain here

[15:35:40]

sphery:

^Willie^: suggesting that someone who's trying to help you should be Googling for info on the thing you're asking for help with is rather rude

[15:35:44]

iamlindoro:

But let's cut to the chase

[15:35:46]

^Willie^:

anyway this card have 3 input's and 3 output's working via v4l output is zoran based

[15:35:55]

iamlindoro:

^Willie^: output of video via your device in linux is unsupported

[15:36:04]

iamlindoro:

so no, you cannot do what you seek to do without writing an output driver

[15:36:13]

^Willie^:

sphery: if you did ask howlong i'm working on this then i did told you what nyou tell me now

[15:36:39]

^Willie^:

i do google for days and try on my own managed input and output but output is now limited to mplayer only and xorg only init's the card on boot

[15:37:02]

^Willie^:

so i`m doing something wrong and the manuals are incomplete/limited about pinacle dc10's or zoran based cards

[15:37:13]

sphery:

^Willie^: MythTV can do output to any video card with Xv support

[15:37:19]

iamlindoro:

^Willie^: please seek help in #v4l, we don't provide support for oyur issue here

[15:37:30]

sphery:

if your card doesn't support Xv, Myth can't use it

[15:37:30]

wagnerrp:

the documentation is not incomplete, it just doesnt list everything that is not supported

[15:37:52]

^Willie^:

sphery: jup but thats thew problem load xorg-video-v4l in xorg and use xv as output must make it work but there is it going wrong ...

[15:37:57]

wagnerrp:

at current, mythtv only supports Xv, framebuffer, and VDPAU outputs on linux

[15:38:17]

^Willie^:

and my card can work via xv over v4l driver

[15:38:21]

sphery:

where directfb probably doesn't even work

[15:38:25]

^Willie^:

but dunno how to set that up

[15:38:43]

** iamlindoro suggests we stop there **

[15:38:51]

sphery:

until you get that set up, Myth won't be able to use the card, so you'll need to focus on getting the Xv support working

[15:38:53]

iamlindoro:

This is outside our pervue, especially in light of attitudes

[15:39:09]

^Willie^:

i just ask

[15:39:20]

^Willie^:

if you are not in the mood to chat then don't

[15:39:21]

** mag0o googles pervue **

[15:39:24]

^Willie^:

posible others will

[15:39:41]

wagnerrp:

in general, mythtv is dropping support for such hardware, in favor of proper video cards

[15:39:49]

iamlindoro:

^Willie^: If you are courteous, we will be happy to help you with issues having to do with MythTV-- but those related to making your hardware work are not what we do here

[15:39:51]

sphery:

mag0o: it's like what cable co's use: Pay Pervue

[15:40:02]

mag0o:

ahh

[15:40:04]

mag0o:

:)

[15:40:10]

^Willie^:

wagnerrp: do you know what kinds of card the pinacle dc10/dc30's where or just guessing ? they where not cheap i can tell you

[15:40:10]

sphery:

yeah, that was a joke

[15:40:12]

wagnerrp:

output support for the PVR-350 got dropped in trunk

[15:40:24]

mag0o:

good one at that :)

[15:40:26]

iamlindoro:

s/pervue/purview/

[15:40:37]

** mag0o googles perview **

[15:40:47]

sphery:

with a u

[15:40:48]

mag0o:

err

[15:40:51]

mag0o:

yeah

[15:40:54]

sphery:

:)

[15:40:56]

mag0o:

ok i'm going back to eating

[15:41:24]

wagnerrp:

^Willie^: yes, its a professional video editing card. someone has to have said hardware to necessitate developing support for it

[15:41:24]

^Willie^:

wagnerrp: point is dc10 video output is true pal signal no desynced vga converted to some sort of 800x600@50hz

[15:41:43]

wagnerrp:

and none of the devs are going to bother doing so when a cheap $30 video card works just as well

[15:41:49]

^Willie^:

yes and there are 2 ways both developed but never finished

[15:41:58]

^Willie^:

zoran driver from mjpeg and v4l

[15:42:13]

** iamlindoro counts to ten...again **

[15:42:31]

^Willie^:

and i'm willing to continue the development if needed but do need some info then

[15:42:39]

^Willie^:

iamlindoro: short temper ?

[15:42:53]

^Willie^:

i just ask if you don't like don't make me act like you ;)

[15:43:09]

^Willie^:

it is no private channel for the info

[15:43:32]

wagnerrp:

^Willie^: chances are none of the developers who would know enough to advise you on developing a new output device for mythtv

[15:43:32]

iamlindoro:

^Willie^: Entirely too much patience, actually. But sarcastic and rude behavior with us (all of whom are myth devs) is not a good way to make friends here. If you want help, I suggest acting with a little more courtesy

[15:43:36]

^Willie^:

there are 190 other users in here so whats your point if you dont wana talk

[15:43:47]

wagnerrp:

would see any benefit in doing so for a standard definition output device

[15:43:48]

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[15:44:05]

iamlindoro:

^Willie^: It has nothing to do with whether I want to talk, I am merely telling you that if you cannot follow our channel rules about courtesy, you will be leaving

[15:44:06]

wagnerrp:

so if you want to make it work, you need to get the xorg-Xv drivers you mentioned working

[15:44:12]

wagnerrp:

which is outside the scope of this channel

[15:44:52]

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[15:44:53]

^Willie^:

any idea`s for other usefull channels ? except v4l channel

[15:45:06]

iamlindoro:

#v4l is the only channel that will be appropriate for your query

[15:45:24]

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[15:45:25]

^Willie^:

hmmzz ok

[15:45:41]

^Willie^:

something totaly else .. dvi to component video ... is that supported ?

[15:45:52]

^Willie^:

the dvi port is regulair fb

[15:46:15]

wagnerrp:

^Willie^: the only way to do that would be with a external hardware converter

[15:46:19]

wagnerrp:

completely independent of the computer

[15:46:23]

iamlindoro:

Myth has no knowledge of what video output you are using, it merely uses your Xorg output

[15:46:39]

iamlindoro:

so what you do with the signal your computer puts out is unknown to myth

[15:46:40]

wagnerrp:

so theres nothing mythtv, or xorg for that matter, could do to support or not support such a device

[15:46:54]

^Willie^:

dvi can send pure component video rgb from 480p to 1080p but dunno if 480p is supported by older tv`s or plasma's only..

[15:47:27]

wagnerrp:

yes, it can send RGB, which is not the typical signal used by devices supporting component video

[15:47:42]

^Willie^:

ok thnx then i do not have to try that

[15:47:46]

wagnerrp:

trying to plug RGB (VGA) into a component input will almost certainly fail

[15:48:09]

wagnerrp:

there are only a handful of devices, usually high end studio monitors or projectors, that support component RGB

[15:48:12]

^Willie^:

wagnerrp: i did read that dvi have real component not like vga`s hi-res rgb

[15:48:38]

^Willie^:

and my beamer do support component but to expansive to blowup

[15:49:03]

^Willie^:

anyway thnx

[15:49:18]

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[15:49:21]

wagnerrp:

DVI only supports RGB, not the YPbPr traditionally used by component devices

[15:51:07]

^Willie^:

wagnerrp: for your info -> http://www.amazon.co.uk/COMPONENT-FEMALE-VIDE . . . f=pd_cp_ce_2

[15:51:13]

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[15:51:14]

^Willie^:

DVI-A MALE TO 3 RCA COMPONENT FEMALE VIDEO ADAPTER (Analogue YPbPr)

[15:51:30]

^Willie^:

[15:52:17]

iamlindoro:

That is a cable, it will not function if your output device is not natively able to conver to yPbPr

[15:52:31]

iamlindoro:

that is, you cannot simply stick that on any DVI port and get component out

[15:53:02]

wagnerrp:

actually, its supposed to be component input to DVI

[15:53:24]

jams:

so iamlindoro i imported a bunch of videos into into mythvideo .22 how does one update the metadata?

[15:53:30]

wagnerrp:

meaning it will only work on a non-standard device which supports YPbPr over DVI-A

[15:53:38]

iamlindoro:

!trout jams wiki

[15:53:38]

** MythLogBot slaps jams with a wiki trout on behalf of iamlindoro... **

[15:53:52]

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[15:54:02]

wagnerrp:

the DVI spec only specifies RGB signaling for analog video

[15:54:08]

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[15:54:08]

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[15:54:11]

iamlindoro:

jams: highlight a video, pull up the context menu, Metadata Options->Download Metadata, or (default) press W

[15:54:31]

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[15:54:40]

jams:

thx

[15:55:43]

^Willie^:

iamlindoro: yes and i'm aware of the diff between cheap and proper stuff

[15:56:12]

^Willie^:

iamlindoro: not all dvi outputs are identical like scart not alwatys have rgb i/o but it belongs to the standart

[15:56:19]

wagnerrp:

^Willie^: see page 23 of the DVI spec... http://www.ddwg.org/lib/dvi_10.pdf

[15:56:51]

wagnerrp:

DVI is DVI, unless its something non-standard, at which point it is not DVI

[15:56:53]

iamlindoro:

^Willie^: Yes, and that would be cheap stuff. 99% of DVI output devices will not output anything with that cable

[15:57:19]

wagnerrp:

as DVI will only support RGB (as per the spec), that cable will not function on any DVI compliant device

[15:57:53]

wagnerrp:

only on a special device that uses proprietary alterations on the DVI spec

[15:58:01]

^Willie^:

iDVI-A (analog only)

[15:58:17]

^Willie^:

DVI-I (integrated, digital & analog) ->

[15:58:19]

^Willie^:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Visual_Interface

[15:58:22]

^Willie^:

but thnx

[15:58:29]

wagnerrp:

see page 23 on the linked PDF, DVI-A is for analog RGB, not component YPbPr

[15:58:32]

iamlindoro:

Where the signaling of the analog would be RGB.

[15:58:42]

iamlindoro:

not YPbPr

[15:59:07]

iamlindoro:

I desperately hope that you are not this difficult to get along with in whatever your native language is

[16:00:22]

^Willie^:

maby a bad start at the other channel iamlindoro ;)

[16:00:28]

^Willie^:

but have a nice eavening

[16:00:53]

wagnerrp:

were just trying to warn you NOT to buy such a cable

[16:00:59]

wagnerrp:

as it will almost certainly not work as you intend

[16:01:15]

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[16:03:05]

^Willie^:

wagnerrp: atm i do need to fix my media box and also have some work todo

[16:03:19]

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[16:03:27]

^Willie^:

for now tvout is ok but not for long due the image quality

[16:03:48]

^Willie^:

guess and own made ad725 based vga->pal/ntsc converter will do beter then tvout on ati cards

[16:03:55]

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[16:04:23]

^Willie^:

i have seen the diff with this pinacle composite out signal that is stable as it can be no flicker nothing and even sharp colors

[16:04:26]

wagnerrp:

for what its worth, the svideo output on my GF8400 is drastically improved from that on my older GF6200

[16:04:26]

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[16:04:56]

^Willie^:

not tested the gf6200 tvout have one in an other box but i did giveup on tvout

[16:05:06]

^Willie^:

it is always flickering

[16:05:13]

^Willie^:

or flaming

[16:05:47]

^Willie^:

and that is pretty normal if you look at how it is done .. chroma and luma are out of sync and frequency is wrong

[16:05:54]

cynyr:

so when i try and use myth-setup i get the following error, http://pastebin.ca/1832371. It would seem that i'm mising something for QT and mysql

[16:06:09]

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[16:07:04]

cynyr:

but i'm not sure what i would be missing, i normally don't use QT anything

[16:07:27]

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[16:07:51]

cynyr:

ahh, mysql update broke it's qt4 plugin, i'll be back later, if it is still an issue

[16:07:58]

jams:

figured if i'm going to take screenshots of stuff might as well have it look decent with stuff populated

[16:08:49]

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[16:11:42]

iamlindoro:

jams: Why the screenies?

[16:12:41]

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[16:13:41]

jams:

because i can

[16:14:24]

jams:

almost have the renamed myth-walk program done. So I figured might as well take shots of themes when it's complete

[16:14:37]

wagnerrp:

myth-walk?

[16:14:52]

jams:

it's working now..just need to fill in all the navigation

[16:15:37]

jams:

http://jmeyer.us/screens/myth_theme_tools.png

[16:15:40]

jams:

early screenshot

[16:16:07]

jams:

but it start myth, and walk the menu to whereever you want and take a screenshot

[16:16:16]

jams:

or just start myth..or just create a map of the menu

[16:16:42]

iamlindoro:

Interesting, could be a useful tool for theme regression testing

[16:16:51]

jams:

iamlindoro- thats where this started

[16:17:02]

jams:

i had someting done with bash for my own theme building along time ago

[16:17:12]

jams:

but figured it needed to be updated and made a bit more robust

[16:17:52]

wagnerrp:

is this an alternate theme engine? or something using the telnet interface?

[16:18:04]

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[16:18:16]

jams:

not an alternate theme engine

[16:18:43]

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[16:20:15]

jams:

the taking of screenshots and keys used to get there is all in a cfg file, so it's easy to add your own

[16:20:35]

jams:

or update as myth changes

[16:28:56]

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[16:30:07]

jams:

iamlindoro- it's also why i asked if you had a test database :)

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[16:52:10]

iamlindoro:

heh. http://www.chimeratv.it/scopri.htm

[16:55:54]

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[16:56:48]

iamlindoro:

foxbuntu: Heh, love your web site, now if only there was any way to buy anything from you :)

[16:58:15]

jams:

it's been that way for a long time

[16:59:12]

iamlindoro:

jams: http://www.foxmediasystems.com/ ?

[16:59:18]

jams:

yep

[16:59:23]

iamlindoro:

Looks like he just put up a new site in Jan.

[16:59:25]

jams:

he revamped it

[16:59:35]

iamlindoro:

(though possibly on the old site it wasn't possible to buy anything either :)

[16:59:39]

jams:

the site has been there for some time

[16:59:46]

jams:

thats correct

[16:59:56]

jams:

the new one does look better

[17:00:14]

jams:

more sly

[17:01:53]

jams:

wow 30 minutes to import the music and still going

[17:03:24]

** iamlindoro considers picking up Final Fantasy 13 on the way home... **

[17:03:39]

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[17:03:59]

jams:

going to try and wait for a used copy to show up

[17:04:42]

iamlindoro:

I have a free evening, so it's that or actually do meaningful work on Myth ;)

[17:05:14]

jams:

ff13 sounds like more fun

[17:05:36]

jams:

hope its easier to get into then ff12 was

[17:05:51]

jams:

the first 3 hours of that game was painful

[17:05:59]

iamlindoro:

I liked 12 all right-- 13 seems very like 12, actually

[17:06:10]

iamlindoro:

but you're right, you had to get going before it really became fun

[17:06:14]

jams:

yep

[17:06:35]

iamlindoro:

I love the stories, hate the busy work

[17:06:45]

jams:

i hated walking around that city

[17:06:54]

iamlindoro:

My favorites are 8 and 9, everyone else's least favorites :)

[17:07:10]

jams:

9 was fun 8 was no fun

[17:07:10]

iamlindoro:

7 was okay, X and X-2 were okay, I liked 12...

[17:07:18]

iamlindoro:

Haha, I *love* 8

[17:07:21]

jams:

i acutally gave 8 to a friend of mine

[17:07:22]

iamlindoro:

love it love itv

[17:07:28]

iamlindoro:

and especially love the ending

[17:07:42]

iamlindoro:

I still pull up the final after-credits ending of 8 on youtube a couple times a year and smile

[17:07:49]

** iamlindoro goes to do that now **

[17:07:53]

jams:

wow

[17:08:03]

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[17:08:03]

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[17:08:59]

iamlindoro:

I think it was the love story part of it, which they nailed much better than any other FF game

[17:09:15]

jams:

i don't think I ever got that far into the game

[17:10:42]

iamlindoro:

It bothers me in a lot of the FF games that no character's motivation goes any deeper than I want to defeat my childhood nemesis/I want to save my country because E_NOREASON/I am the last of a dying breed/I am a brooding prince/I want to be a dragoon knight

[17:11:11]

iamlindoro:

So I think I liked 8 because you felt like the main character had a personal investment in the whole investment in the conflict

[17:11:35]

iamlindoro:

er in the whole conflict

[17:15:21]

jams:

man we need to find my sister in law a job

[17:15:49]

iamlindoro:

jams: I always get a chuckle out of: http://project-apollo.net/text/rpg.html

[17:16:12]

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[17:16:43]

jams:

it's so true

[17:21:30]

Jay2k1:

can anyone tell me where i can find the time of the next recording in the db?

[17:22:16]

wagnerrp:

no one can

[17:22:20]

wagnerrp:

(it doesnt exist)

[17:22:21]

iamlindoro:

IT's not kept there

[17:22:25]

iamlindoro:

the active schedule is in memory

[17:22:35]

iamlindoro:

s/active schedule/upcoming recordings/

[17:22:45]

wagnerrp:

you can either pull it over mythproto, or you can pull it from the backend status page

[17:22:48]

iamlindoro:

you can look at the backend XML status page to see what's upcoming

[17:24:58]

Jay2k1:

hmm, like parsing the "backend status" bit of mythweb? good idea

[17:25:09]

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[17:25:32]

iamlindoro:

no

[17:25:44]

iamlindoro:

mythweb just dumps the backend status page into its own context

[17:25:57]

iamlindoro:

we suggest you just pull the backend status page directly rather than try to scrape mythweb

[17:25:58]

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[17:26:38]

Jay2k1:

ok, where can i find it?

[17:26:52]

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[17:27:38]

iamlindoro:

http://ip.add.re.ss:6544/

[17:27:49]

iamlindoro:

replace with your backend IP as necessary

[17:27:57]

Jay2k1:

heh, thank you

[17:28:02]

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[17:30:26]

Jay2k1:

neat... didn't even know that exists

[17:31:40]

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[17:32:09]

wagnerrp:

or if you want the xml version... http://ip.add.re.ss:6544/xml

[17:32:19]

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[17:35:18]

jams:

anybody know what the R key is for in the playback box?

[17:35:35]

wagnerrp:

Jay2k1: you may find it easier to parse out 'mythbackend --printsched'

[17:36:31]

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[17:37:06]

Jay2k1:

thank you

[17:42:06]

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[17:49:08]

leprechau:

anyone had a problem with the latest mythweb svn from .21 fixes having a messed up videos listing?

[17:49:40]

** wagnerrp hasnt run 0.21 mythweb in over a year **

[17:49:56]

leprechau:

do you run mythweb at all?

[17:50:02]

leprechau:

or which one do you run?

[17:50:06]

bjd:

0.22

[17:50:10]

wagnerrp:

trunk

[17:50:28]

wagnerrp:

0.22 got released like 5 months ago

[17:52:02]

leprechau:

sorry i meant .22 fixes

[17:52:30]

sphery:

0.22-fixes MythWeb doesn't support MythVideo Storage Groups

[17:52:51]

sphery:

IIRC

[17:52:57]

iamlindoro:

corect

[17:53:22]

leprechau:

it's mythweb .22 fixes 23562

[17:53:49]

leprechau:

hrm...is there a workaround to get the display looking right?

[17:54:22]

sphery:

"looking right"?

[17:54:40]

wagnerrp:

if you want to use mythvideo in mythweb, you either need to move back to local files, upgrade to trunk (or wait a few days/weeks), or do your own unsupported backport

[17:55:12]

wagnerrp:

i believe the patch in question is #7674

[17:55:15]

leprechau:

sphery, the directory structure doesn't show up it just lists all the files with no order

[17:55:20]

leprechau:

well no structure

[17:55:30]

sphery:

are you using storage groups or not?

[17:55:32]

wagnerrp:

thats a different issue, dont know about that one

[17:55:43]

wagnerrp:

sphery: yeah, thats what happens when you use SG content in old mythweb

[17:56:10]

wagnerrp:

i forget when that got fixed

[17:56:11]

leprechau:

sphery, yes I have storage groups setup on the backend...I did it when I updated to .22 awhile back

[17:56:20]

kormoc:

xris fixed it a month or two ago

[17:56:44]

leprechau:

wagnerrp, aight I'll wait...it's not that big of deal...just wanted to make sure it wasn't just a dumb mistake on my part

[17:57:11]

wagnerrp:

leprechau: there are a couple 'blockers' left, but a 0.23RC should be out any time now

[17:57:23]

wagnerrp:

with a full release shortly after that

[17:57:32]

leprechau:

wow, that's really nice

[17:57:50]

wagnerrp:

trunk has been in freeze since... early february?

[17:58:00]

kormoc:

hrm

[17:58:12]

leprechau:

.21 -> .22 is going to be a much longer period than the .22 -> .23 then

[17:58:34]

sphery:

yep

[17:58:43]

sphery:

in theory myth releases will be much more frequent, now

[17:58:52]

wagnerrp:

0.23 is largely going to be a cleanup of stuff started in 0.22

[17:59:02]

sphery:

trac is either way too slow or dead, again

[18:00:29]

iamlindoro:

I just got my awesome new components but for some reason I can't get my system to boot

[18:00:37]

iamlindoro:

I got the processor pictured here: http://www.gearlog.com/2010/03/hands_on_fake_ . . . _i7-92_1.php

[18:00:52]

sphery:

nice

[18:01:28]

wagnerrp:

were those just plastic on the bottom? or were they something that could actually fry your board if you tried to use it?

[18:01:41]

kormoc:

plastic

[18:01:43]

kormoc:

horrible fakes

[18:01:45]

iamlindoro:

allegedly the procs are molded blocks of metal

[18:01:54]

iamlindoro:

the fan is a piece of plastic with a sticket on it of a fan

[18:01:55]

iamlindoro:

haha

[18:01:56]

sphery:

with plastic shaped like fans

[18:02:01]

iamlindoro:

sticker

[18:02:11]

kormoc:

ahh, was thinking of the fans

[18:02:25]

wagnerrp:

yeah, the fan was amusing

[18:02:32]

sphery:

Sochet LGA 1366

[18:02:36]

sphery:

[sic]

[18:03:22]

iamlindoro:

I should sochet to the kitchen and get a soda

[18:03:25]

kormoc:

8MB Cache is hawt

[18:03:40]

sphery:

So that's what they're doing with all that extra lead that they're no longer allowed to put in children's toys: http://www.gearlog.com/IMG_3755.JPG

[18:03:56]

wagnerrp:

so you seriously got one in the mail? or were you just bringing it up?

[18:04:16]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: I was just fooling around, didn't get one

[18:04:41]

wagnerrp:

i got a pair of what were apparently counterfeit Intel NICs a couple years ago

[18:04:52]

iamlindoro:

I'll need a bonus/raise before I can upgrade all the existing perfectly good quad core stuff to i7 :)

[18:04:53]

wagnerrp:

from NewEGG

[18:04:59]

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[18:05:08]

wagnerrp:

well you do have a huge stack of spare hard drives

[18:05:22]

wagnerrp:

anyway... bought them, installed them, they worked great for a couple months

[18:05:26]

wagnerrp:

then one died

[18:05:27]

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[18:05:31]

iamlindoro:

I actually managed to use up all the old 1TBs

[18:05:36]

wagnerrp:

then like 2 weeks later the other one died

[18:05:46]

sphery:

"This box contains an Intel(R) processor ans a thermal solution designed for use ina Desktop PC. ... the system requirements for Intel(R) Hyper.Threading Technology are contained in the booklet enclosed."

[18:06:03]

wagnerrp:

i sent them in for warranty repair at Intel, only to have them 'confiscated as part of an ongoing counterfeit investigation'

[18:07:10]

kormoc:

youch

[18:07:17]

sphery:

presumably with a replacement sent your way, right?

[18:07:32]

bjd:

doubt it?

[18:07:46]

sphery:

Someone would have replaced them if that happened to me.

[18:07:52]

sphery:

Maybe newegg, if not Intel.

[18:07:55]

wagnerrp:

no, they just sent me some certified letter documenting such

[18:07:58]

sphery:

but I would have made sure they got replaced.

[18:08:00]

wagnerrp:

and newegg sent me new parts

[18:08:04]

sphery:

ah, cool

[18:08:12]

sphery:

that works--just as long as you don't bear the cost

[18:08:32]

wagnerrp:

yeah, newegg seemed very quick to want to keep me happy

[18:08:45]

sphery:

yeah, they're service has always made me happy

[18:08:51]

sphery:

s/they're/their/

[18:08:52]

wagnerrp:

of course ive been buying stuff there for like 10 years

[18:08:58]

iamlindoro:

Anyone been following Human Target? I've been recording, dutifully editing, and archiving it, but haven't seen it yet

[18:09:08]

sphery:

(the danger of changing what you're saying mid-sentence)

[18:09:14]

iamlindoro:

It can be like this year's Fringe for me, which I didn't watch until one go through the whole first season :)

[18:09:31]

iamlindoro:

Which is like being sphery all the time

[18:09:44]

sphery:

heh

[18:10:33]

iamlindoro:

Hmm, and TrashForward is coming back...

[18:10:44]

iamlindoro:

and (Yay!) V

[18:11:26]

wagnerrp:

i really need to get back to editing/archiving stuff

[18:11:30]

wagnerrp:

ive got like two months of backlog

[18:11:41]

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[18:11:53]

iamlindoro:

Yeah, I tend to give up on shows when I get too behind, and just delete the whole shabang

[18:12:09]

iamlindoro:

Spartacus: Blood and Sand has really grown on me (if you get Starz)

[18:12:19]

wagnerrp:

nope, no premos

[18:12:35]

iamlindoro:

if you like period drama, tons of bloody gory violence, and tons of nudity and sex

[18:12:48]

wagnerrp:

dont even have digital cable for that matter

[18:12:48]

sphery:

That happened for me with Friday Night Lights. Deleted the first 3 seasons all at once because I decided I didn't want to catch up with it (had never started watching it).

[18:12:56]

wagnerrp:

although apparently thats going to change by next august

[18:12:56]

bjd:

iamlindoro: sounds like Rome.

[18:13:21]

iamlindoro:

bjd: Much gorier, much MUCH more explicit sexually, and more of a small story than a big one

[18:13:39]

bjd:

=)

[18:13:46]

iamlindoro:

most of it is shot on green screen and it mostly takes place in a single building (and a colloseum) so far

[18:13:59]

iamlindoro:

so less of Rome's epic feeling

[18:13:59]

wagnerrp:

so its turned into softcore with high production values?

[18:14:07]

kormoc:

bjd: it's all smiles until you realize what they mean by 'sword fights'

[18:14:15]

iamlindoro:

And if you ever wanted to see Xena naked, there's that I guess

[18:14:22]

iamlindoro:

though she is much more feminine here

[18:15:12]

iamlindoro:

It doesn't feel pornographic, really... tough to explain... the characters are kind of skeevy and dirty so it makes the sex seem a bit more provocative

[18:15:55]

iamlindoro:

All that said, not many people get Starz so it might be moot

[18:16:39]

wagnerrp:

i still cant believe they cableco is shutting down analog in 4 months with not a peep about it on TV

[18:21:37]

iamlindoro:

Wonder when true blood is back...

[18:22:29]

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[18:22:51]

bjd:

i've not seen true blood – i guess thats worth a go?

[18:23:12]

iamlindoro:

It took me a second attempt to get into it

[18:23:26]

iamlindoro:

I watched a couple episodes and was okay, watched it the second time through and came to like it a lot

[18:23:33]

bjd:

=)

[18:23:44]

bjd:

weirdly, i quite like "the mentalist"

[18:28:03]

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[18:39:12]

jams:

iamlindoro- pretty soon..thought I saw a commerical for it coming back in about a month

[18:39:25]

iamlindoro:

jams: Early June, looks like

[18:41:10]

** jams is amazed and how much the color scheme for mythcenter looks like one of his themes **

[18:42:49]

iamlindoro:

So you mean your theme is a shameless color scheme ripoff of WMC too? ;)

[18:42:50]

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[18:44:59]

Dibblah:

There is a quite similar show, featuring a highly religious guy who kills people. The fundementalist.

[18:45:14]

iamlindoro:

haha

[18:46:30]

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[18:47:06]

jams:

hah yeah i dont' think so

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[19:03:13]

jams:

ho hum..what boring work entering in cmd sequences

[19:05:17]

TheWarlord:

Good afternoon/evening everyone. I've got a problem with Mythtv and my HD-Homerun. Myth scan finds all my channels just fine, but it has a problem locking onto two HD channels on one frequency (98.3 and 98.804). Using the HDHR GUI I can tune and watch just fine using VLC, so the HDHR is working fine. Can someone help me get myth to tune in properly?

[19:06:54]

TheWarlord:

(a third non-HD channel on that same multiplex works just fine — it's only those two HD channels that fail to lock)

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[19:44:27]

wagnerrp:

james miller needs a good stabbing...

[19:47:14]

kormoc:

in the face! With fire!

[19:47:55]

wagnerrp:

apparently hes using Alpine (derived from Pine)

[19:48:18]

wagnerrp:

one would expect an old unix mailer to properly add 'Re: ' tags, and support threading

[19:59:31]

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[20:04:00]

iamlindoro:

HAHAHAHAH

[20:04:08]

iamlindoro:

so I picked up Final Fantasy 13 on the way home today

[20:04:24]

iamlindoro:

and like many new games, it comes with a serial number for in game items/bonuses/etc.

[20:04:31]

bjd:

see you in a couple of weeks then :)

[20:04:46]

iamlindoro:

the card says "receive a SPECIAL ITEM by registering your copy of Final Fantasy XIII here:"

[20:04:57]

kormoc:

iamlindoro: is the serial number the same as my luggage combo?

[20:05:02]

iamlindoro:

so you go through their whooooole process, painstakingly enter your code, and....

[20:05:15]

iamlindoro:

"BONUS CODE! Receive a FINAL FANTASY XIV Secret In-Game Item!"

[20:05:22]

iamlindoro:

what is wrong with this picture

[20:05:40]

kormoc:

haha, nice

[20:05:47]

iamlindoro:

so by buying their game, they are willing to grant me a special bonus item in.. THEIR NEXT GAME that they are launching later this year

[20:06:30]

iamlindoro:

Which is an MMORPG that you get to pay to play

[20:06:31]

iamlindoro:

lame

[20:07:28]

iamlindoro:

Though in fairness, they did not specify in which game you would get the special item

[20:13:21]

justinh:

heh got you to register though eh ;)

[20:14:23]

justinh:

well, safe to say I now have all the motivation I need to finish 'concept'. s/finish/get\ to\ a\ usable\ state\ I\ can\ live\ with/

[20:15:27]

justinh:

I've just seen what somebody did to one of my babies. blootube-wide with wafer-thin fanart underneath. BLECH. And it's still junk

[20:16:15]

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[20:17:56]

bjd:

Hm, weird day! an interview at google makes you realise how boring your office is

[20:18:02]

justinh:

I reckon I've got til July to finish it. after that, NO free time whatsoever. Little juski will see to that I expect

[20:18:07]

justinh:

only one day?

[20:18:29]

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[20:18:49]

justinh:

then again, someone I know got pulled in for the *whole* day for an interview. Thought that was rather unusual ;)

[20:19:23]

bjd:

mm?

[20:19:32]

bjd:

5 x 1 hour is the norm

[20:20:12]

justinh:

five hours is the norm at google? jees

[20:20:30]

wagnerrp:

sounds like a normal interview

[20:20:42]

wagnerrp:

cycled between multiple managers, and given a tour of the facility

[20:21:09]

bjd:

nah, 5 x 1 hour interviews excl tours & lunch & breaks :p

[20:21:10]

justinh:

heh. I've never been subjected to any more than one hour

[20:21:25]

justinh:

and that was including tours

[20:21:25]

bjd:

UK interviews are normally 1–1.5 hour :p

[20:21:59]

bjd:

interesting experience tho!

[20:22:00]

justinh:

though we sometimes have 2 or 3 interviews

[20:22:30]

justinh:

I bet

[20:22:40]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: the concept of stabbing with fire is an amazing one

[20:22:56]

justinh:

why you'd want to work for the 2nd most evil corp on the face of the planet is fascinating too ;-)

[20:23:21]

bjd:

who's first? :p

[20:23:27]

justinh:

prolly Apple

[20:23:39]

bjd:

i was expecting MS

[20:23:47]

wagnerrp:

theyre not intentionally evil

[20:23:56]

wagnerrp:

its just a byproduct of wanting to index the world

[20:24:03]

wagnerrp:

and then destroy it before they have to do so again

[20:24:28]

bjd:

i love teh concept of having a day off to do whatever you want

[20:24:45]

bjd:

so you can say, actually this fricking sucks.... i want to fix it ...

[20:24:55]

justinh:

doubt it'd be any kind of picnic though

[20:25:17]

** bjd has too much redtape in $current_job **

[20:25:47]

justinh:

I'm one to talk about evil in the job btw.. since the company I work for makes the tools of Big Brother

[20:26:26]

bjd:

=)

[20:26:43]

justinh:

looking for something else further North though. Not loving Manchester these days

[20:27:00]

bjd:

:/

[20:27:25]

justinh:

given it 12 years.. still think it's a cool place to visit once in a while

[20:27:57]

kormoc:

12 years is a good tug, I gave my last place 9 months :P

[20:28:31]

justinh:

to think I left the north east cos my home town was killing me

[20:28:36]

bjd:

there comes a point where you wonder if you care about your day job...surely what happens outside is far more important and so long as you can fund that ... thats all that matters?

[20:28:50]

justinh:

bjd: that's what moving will be about

[20:29:04]

justinh:

work's ok. I can live with it

[20:29:11]

bjd:

yup

[20:29:43]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: glad you like the idea, I think it should catch on

[20:30:05]

wagnerrp:

its like a lightsaber, only with more win

[20:38:16]

justinh:

maybe google's plan is for their employees to love working there so much they never want to leave :D

[20:38:17]

npm:

is this http://pinouts.ru/Video/nvidia_svideo_9p_pinout.shtml or http://www.amazon.com/Video-Svideo-Component- . . . p/B000G0A26G correspond to the 9-pin mini-din connector on the hauppauge pvr-350

[20:38:33]

justinh:

npm: probably not

[20:39:05]

wagnerrp:

npm: what do you want to do with that breakout connector on the 350?

[20:39:08]

justinh:

but hey look! http://www.vdr-wiki.de/wiki/index.php/Pinout_PVR350

[20:39:16]

npm:

are the cables available for sale individually (in case i purchase a cheap pvr350 w/o one)

[20:39:37]

wagnerrp:

in case you intend to purchase a cheap 350 without one

[20:39:43]

justinh:

FWIW I wouldn't buy a 350 card these days

[20:39:45]

wagnerrp:

you should reconsider and buy cheap 150s

[20:39:59]

justinh:

if you just want to encode analogue to mpeg2, grab a 150 or 2

[20:40:06]

wagnerrp:

(or 500)

[20:40:40]

npm:

well i wanted to play w/ the svid out

[20:40:45]

wagnerrp:

no you didnt

[20:40:52]

npm:

really?

[20:40:57]

justinh:

or rather oh no you don't

[20:41:10]

npm:

because it doesn't work?

[20:41:20]

justinh:

npm: no use for mythtv these days and besides, they ain't all that compared to modern video cards

[20:41:31]

wagnerrp:

its old, outdated, abandoned, and leading towards inoperability in modern kernels

[20:41:32]

justinh:

they used to be, a long time ago

[20:41:50]

npm:

oh so i'm better w/ a 500?

[20:42:03]

wagnerrp:

basically, a $30 video card does just as good a job at video output, and a better job at hardware decoding

[20:42:17]

npm:

well i hope someone outbids my $1.04 :-)

[20:42:33]

wagnerrp:

how much time left?

[20:42:33]

justinh:

and you won't be tied to purely analogue audio either :)

[20:42:40]

npm:

couple days

[20:42:46]

wagnerrp:

someone will bid higher

[20:43:01]

npm:

i figure...

[20:43:07]

justinh:

npm: maybe you could lead by example if you win it. and video yourself burning it to death in a deadly fire :D

[20:43:10]

wagnerrp:

and if not, youve got a perfectly good analog capture card for $1.04

[20:43:13]

wagnerrp:

win-win

[20:43:18]

npm:

there's two w/o cables on ebay

[20:43:29]

npm:

and i was checking to see if it was worth the trouble

[20:43:38]

justinh:

well unless you can make the cable yourself... wah wahhhhh

[20:44:08]

npm:

i can, altho i don't know if i have the fine motor control for a 9 pin mini din. an svideo is hard enuf

[20:44:37]

wagnerrp:

i dont understand why these people put a used 150 on ebay for $80

[20:44:47]

wagnerrp:

i didnt even pay that much for mine _new_

[20:45:13]

justinh:

heh I got more than I paid for mine when I sold it

[20:45:18]

npm:

so if i was getting a new just analog, well supported, i can't find cnn on digital card... a 350 would be ok?

[20:45:34]

wagnerrp:

it would be ok, 150 or 500 would be better

[20:45:36]

justinh:

pvr150 would be better

[20:45:42]

justinh:

or a 500 like wagnerrp says

[20:45:47]

npm:

i have a 1250 that capably shows me the paucity of material on digital cable :-)

[20:45:57]

sphery:

350 is OK, but don't use the ivtvfb module (no PVR-350 output--it's garbage)

[20:46:18]

wagnerrp:

sphery: its cool, weve got this

[20:46:24]

npm:

thanks for the warning. i guess i'll let someone outbid me. :-)

[20:46:29]

sphery:

heh, slow again :)

[20:47:06]

wagnerrp:

now go back to trying to get donated hardware from xris... :P

[20:47:12]

sphery:

heh

[20:47:18]

npm:

what's xris

[20:47:28]

justinh:

I saw a pvr350 output in real life a few years back. it was no better than the svideo on my fx5200 card ;)

[20:47:32]

wagnerrp:

justinh: in case you havent been watching, check #mythtv about 10 minutes ago

[20:47:44]

justinh:

I'm not in there & it's not logged

[20:48:22]

wagnerrp:

ah, xris was trying to argue that the mythtv server had 4GB of memory... commands he was typing into the console right now were telling him so

[20:48:35]

wagnerrp:

... then he realized he was not logged into the mythtv server

[20:48:40]

npm:

but if i have an old mobo w/ integrated video that i don't want to use w/ my tv (a crap old school crt) downstairs... so i was thinking o using the 350's svid out

[20:49:30]

justinh:

wagnerrp: heh. I did something similarly daft today. I thought my mounted drives weren't agreeing with fstab for some reason. I forgot it was going by UUIDs not the commented lines above

[20:49:52]

justinh:

npm: forget that idea. you've been told why already

[20:50:14]

sphery:

wagnerrp: you mean added to -developers? If so, you and elmojo should get together and send info to Chutt all at once.

[20:50:24]

wagnerrp:

sphery: yeah, that

[20:50:40]

justinh:

bah, I totally missed that boat

[20:51:19]

sphery:

wagnerrp: 1 or 2 days ago, Chutt mentioned to elmojo to get a list of everyone who needs added and send an e-mail

[20:51:22]

justinh:

what on Earth is #mythtv-bsp ?

[20:51:33]

sphery:

he's the only one who can add people, TTBOMK

[20:51:39]

wagnerrp:

justinh: bug squashing party

[20:51:58]

wagnerrp:

some thing from a last month to try to wipe out a bunch of crap leading up to a freeze

[20:52:08]

justinh:

ahh. did it work?

[20:52:31]

wagnerrp:

somewhat

[20:52:49]

justinh:

so somewhat cool then I guess :)

[20:53:21]

justinh:

I need to get back into developing. I've done almost nothing for ooo too long now

[20:54:59]

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[20:55:19]

npm:

im running mythtv-0.22–5.fc12.x86_64 — when i use the "M" menu and cursor down to "edit channel" . when i "right arrow" to select it mythtv UI hangs (still continue watching but no response to input)

[20:55:27]

wagnerrp:

i thought you did a lot of UI stuff (and then accidentally deleted it)

[20:55:28]

npm:

is that a known bug?

[20:55:51]

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[20:56:13]

justinh:

wagnerrp: god no, it's still here somewhere

[20:56:40]

npm:

(one needs to force-quit myhthfrontend after doing it... however, it works the very first time you bring up myhthfrontend... after tuning around or doing an "edit channel" previously it will hang

[20:56:43]

npm:

)

[20:56:53]

justinh:

got a gl rotate feature waiting to be groomed for inclusion in the gl painter .. and an analog clock widget :)

[20:57:08]

wagnerrp:

i know i almost deleted two days of work on the bindings, reverting the wrong local checkout

[20:57:20]

sphery:

npm: yeah, it's been reported, IIRC

[20:57:24]

wagnerrp:

luckily i still had it open in vim, and realized what i had done

[20:57:35]

justinh:

my last work was gettng to the point where I was gonna need some serious version control here

[20:58:09]

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[20:58:13]

justinh:

wouldn't mind having another crack at the fx I envisaged too

[20:58:34]

npm:

also there's a field in the edit channel dialog — xmltvid — and it always says "loading..." (also in guide). how do i get rid of that?

[20:58:52]

justinh:

npm: get rid of the junk theme you're using

[20:58:56]

justinh:

as a guess

[20:59:18]

sphery:

npm: you need to have valid xmltvid's specified

[20:59:28]

sphery:

use the mythtv-setup channel editor to edit channel info

[20:59:28]

npm:

ah interesting.... what theme do you recommend?

[20:59:45]

justinh:

though never heard of 'Loading...' being shown in the EPG

[20:59:56]

npm:

then i can't see the logo at the bottom of the tv-screen and type in what channel i'm on

[20:59:59]

justinh:

if you have no EPG data it'd surely show 'Unknown' for every timeslot

[21:00:00]

sphery:

npm: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/8077

[21:00:05]

sphery:

npm: can you do some debugging for me?

[21:00:19]

npm:

sure . need logs?

[21:00:28]

sphery:

npm: what is your Playback Profile group set to? Utilities/Setup|Setup|TV Settings|Playback, 3rd screen?\

[21:00:33]

sphery:

Is it CPU+?

[21:01:15]

sphery:

(that's in mythfrontend's setup, not mythtv-setup)

[21:01:29]

npm:

one sec.... (also, i'm using xv, should i use gl?)

[21:01:35]

sphery:

use Xv

[21:02:47]

npm:

it is on "High Quality"

[21:02:51]

npm:

what should i change to?

[21:03:08]

sphery:

what resolution is the channel you were on?

[21:03:23]

sphery:

is this with an analog capture of standard def?

[21:03:26]

npm:

it seems to happen in both hd and regular res channels

[21:03:48]

npm:

it's digital capture both of hd 1080 hd and regular

[21:03:52]

sphery:

can you try changing it to Slim and try the editor, again

[21:04:05]

npm:

what's "Slim" ??

[21:04:12]

sphery:

playback profile group

[21:04:17]

sphery:

(what's now at High Quality)

[21:06:33]

npm:

it might have worked, but i triggered the "after watching an HD channel" lockup :-)

[21:06:48]

npm:

"video frame buffering failed too many times"

[21:07:02]

sphery:

that happens for you just watching an HD channel?

[21:07:22]

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[21:07:37]

npm:

well i have every channel i could find on my cable... many are blank

[21:07:41]

npm:

and those seem to cause it

[21:07:56]

npm:

i'll edit them out once i figure out what's there

[21:08:13]

sphery:

yeah, a channel with no video or no audio can cause bad things to happen

[21:08:24]

sphery:

but the editor worked that time?

[21:09:05]

npm:

yes, but now it just crashed as in aborted

[21:09:13]

sphery:

if so, it would be great if you could test by going into the editor and exiting the editor, the changing to another channel that works, then going into the editor and seeing if it hangs

[21:09:19]

sphery:

http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/7767

[21:09:22]

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[21:09:23]

npm:

lemme restart, and go to known channels

[21:09:27]

sphery:

likely dups

[21:09:35]

npm:

and test properly

[21:09:41]

sphery:

thx

[21:11:01]

npm:

actually i think it's hosed hard enuf that i gotta stop the backend too :-/

[21:11:38]

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[21:12:06]

** sphery bets the problem is bob deint **

[21:12:31]

sphery:

(the "frontend channel editor locks up the UI" problem, that is)

[21:12:42]

npm:

actually it still locks up

[21:12:43]

sphery:

Don't know what the "after watching an HD channel" lockup problem is :)

[21:12:51]

sphery:

same channel or different channel?

[21:13:26]

npm:

any channel. same pattern as before. let me check the setting just to make sure it "stuck" (i did restart backend... i assume it got stored in mysql)

[21:13:46]

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[21:14:04]

sphery:

the channel you use is important because the resolution of the video determines which playback profile (within the playback profile group) is selected

[21:14:16]

sphery:

and which playback profile determines which deinterlacer

[21:15:20]

npm:

it def locks up. i went from abc7-hd to kcet-hd (bbc world service)

[21:15:49]

sphery:

and you're still using Slim?

[21:15:52]

npm:

second time i tried edit dialog, it locked

[21:15:55]

npm:

let me check

[21:16:02]

npm:

it locked up before i could check

[21:16:03]

sphery:

always the 2nd time?

[21:16:11]

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[21:16:15]

sphery:

or does it lock the first time you try it

[21:16:29]

npm:

it never locked the first time

[21:16:33]

npm:

always the second

[21:16:47]

npm:

or after doing a lot of things, changing channels, going to guide

[21:17:06]

sphery:

So it's more like http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/7767 ("Editing a 2nd channel in live TV locks up UI") than http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/8077 ("Trying to enter Edit Channel from LiveTV locks up UI")

[21:17:52]

npm:

it happens going between regular channels too

[21:17:56]

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[21:18:29]

npm:

as in (1) bring it up, M-edit, escape to cancel dialog ; (2) change channel ; (3) M-edit --> lockup

[21:18:45]

sphery:

ok

[21:19:13]

sphery:

any chance you feel like upgrading to current trunk?

[21:20:25]

sphery:

I have a feeling that issue was fixed in trunk, but not in 0.22-fixes

[21:20:31]

npm:

not right now, but if there's a fedora-updates-testing RPM i could manually install, i'd do that

[21:20:47]

npm:

let me see what's in fedora updates

[21:20:50]

sphery:

it's a one-way thing--if you upgrade to trunk you can't go back to 0.22-fixes

[21:21:22]

npm:

well i can do tar czf mysql.tgz /var/lib/mysql :-)

[21:21:24]

sphery:

you'll be able to (and I highly recommend) switch(ing) to 0.23-fixes when it's released, but you can't go from trunk back to 0.22-fixes

[21:22:05]

npm:

let me check if that's been built for fedora 12

[21:22:11]

sphery:

you'd be /much/ better off using a proper SQL-based backup, as at http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Database_Backup_and_Restore , but, yeah, you could do a backup and then restore the pre-upgrade backup to go back to 0.22-fixes

[21:22:34]

npm:

that would be too much like work

[21:22:36]

npm:

:-)

[21:22:55]

npm:

i hack mysql files directly all the time :-)

[21:23:45]

npm:

i've even done it live to keep servers running while we were being slashdotted :-)

[21:23:46]

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[21:27:03]

npm:

http://rpm.pbone.net/index.php3/stat/4/idpl/1 . . . _64.rpm.html ??

[21:27:23]

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[21:27:42]

sphery:

npm: that should be new enough to work

[21:27:58]

sphery:

npm: but remember you'll need to back up your DB before upgrading

[21:28:09]

npm:

Sun Jan 31 2010 Axel Thimm - 0.23–227_trunk_r23405

[21:28:14]

sphery:

then downgrade, then restore the DB, if you want to go back to 0.22-fixes

[21:28:30]

npm:

will i want to go back?

[21:28:42]

sphery:

right, that's after all the "can't reproduce with trunk version #" comments I see

[21:29:04]

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[21:29:17]

sphery:

If the frontend channel editor works, I'd suggest you just stick with trunk until 0.23 is released, then switch to 0.23-fixes

[21:29:24]

sphery:

0.23 should be out before long

[21:29:47]

sphery:

note, also, you'll have to upgrade /all/ of your MythTV machines at the same time and you'll also have to upgrade mythplugins and myththemes, too

[21:31:00]

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[21:32:18]

** npm asked in #fedora **

[21:33:14]

npm:

right now i'm just starting out... one mythtv machine. eventually when i scavenge a server, i'll have a second unit for watching on my tv

[21:33:23]

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[21:33:34]

npm:

thanks for the warning and much appreciate the help

[21:34:33]

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[21:35:08]

npm:

i'd do the trunk release test sooner but i just got this thing working (after giving up and then recabling and resplitting my broadband so i could watch tv and have internet at the same time... such progress!

[21:37:23]

sphery:

yeah, generally switching to trunk isn't a good idea, but since we're very close to a 0.23 release, it's not a bad idea right now

[21:40:22]

wagnerrp:

assuming you dont mind doing repeated updates

[21:40:59]

npm:

apparently 0.22–6.fc12 is the next release to come out of rpmfusion testing and pushed to stable

[21:41:58]

npm:

i'll probably try that just for grins first

[21:42:29]

npm:

i assume it won't fix the bug, which i can also live with by not doing the action that causes it...

[21:42:41]

sphery:

based on the tickets in Trac, it sounds like it's a problem with all versions of 0.22-fixes and not a problem in trunk

[21:42:47]

sphery:

(the frontend channel editor, that is)

[21:43:22]

sphery:

I had just wanted to find out from a user who had the issue with 0.22-fixes if the same system/configuration showed the issue on trunk

[21:43:27]

npm:

maybe i need to test the updates-testing vsn and give it bad karma for continuing to have the 0.22 bugs

[21:43:40]

sphery:

if it was fixed with trunk, I could close 2 tickets.

[21:44:21]

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[21:44:27]

npm:

i was hoping mythtv was something i was going to watch... i have a lot of stuff to update just to keep pace with development of my own project

[21:44:45]

npm:

however i will probably delve more deeply in the future, just not this month...

[21:46:16]

npm:

i actually installed mythtv to get myself a stream of truly random video to test my segmenting and annotation ideas. (which is what i'm working on)

[21:47:09]

npm:

so at some point i'll be asking for help to build from sources etc....

[21:48:18]

npm:

so when does 0.23 officially come out?

[21:48:33]

wagnerrp:

no specified date yet

[21:48:43]

wagnerrp:

still waiting on a couple blockers in trac

[21:50:03]

npm:

well if i get daring soon (it's been known to happen), i'll try out 0.23–227_trunk_r23405.fc12.x86_64 and let you know

[21:53:19]

npm:

and as someone who had to debug the biggest piece of crap dvr on earth ( http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-video-recorde . . . 2065196.html ) i have to say MythTV is awesome

[21:54:31]

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[21:55:42]

sphery:

thanks. If you do test with trunk, please mention that you were affected in 0.22-fixes and upgrading to trunk fixed the issue on http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/7767 (or just mention it directly to me in here--with my nick so it will get filtered for me)

[21:55:51]

sphery:

npm: ^^^

[21:56:22]

npm:

you've put buildings full of dilbert-zone dwellers of the closed-source world to shame

[21:56:47]

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[21:57:01]

npm:

of course, they have the cheating way of getting and decrypting their closed content to disk...

[21:57:59]

wagnerrp:

i think mythtv has a year or two head start as well

[21:58:21]

npm:

and everybody else has to use irblasters and hdmi or svideo to get their encrypted content... (sort of an antitrust case no?)

[21:58:39]

wagnerrp:

not at all

[21:59:15]

wagnerrp:

anyone who is willing to abide by the terms of the cablelabs license can access encrypted cable content

[21:59:41]

wagnerrp:

the stipulations of that license include that the content must be encrypted at all points, all the way up to the TV

[21:59:48]

npm:

but can you actually get the encryption carsd from directv to plugin to anyrthing linux

[21:59:56]

wagnerrp:

and must be under complete control of the cable company, through the cable card, at all times

[21:59:57]

npm:

(even tho they use linux internally)

[22:00:09]

wagnerrp:

thats a completely different system

[22:00:17]

npm:

unfortunately

[22:00:28]

wagnerrp:

more likely something similar to the DVB CI modules

[22:01:09]

sphery:

but we can now use a Dish or DirecTV set-top-box and an HD-PVR to get the high-definintion satellite content into MythTV

[22:01:18]

sphery:

(or cable-co STB)

[22:01:21]

npm:

oh really?

[22:01:27]

sphery:

yeah

[22:01:37]

sphery:

using the analog component outputs of the STB

[22:01:42]

wagnerrp:

but as mentioned, IR blaster, or firewire, or serial are required to change channels on the STB

[22:01:55]

npm:

oh well yeah..

[22:02:08]

sphery:

right--where most satellite ones these days seem to only support IR

[22:02:23]

npm:

that's the issue i'm complaining about.. it's a lot of mountain to climb for a dumb user versus getting a settop box from directv

[22:02:26]

sphery:

older DirecTV allowed serial

[22:02:30]

skd5aner:

... for now

[22:02:46]

sphery:

for now?

[22:02:53]

sphery:

what's changing?

[22:03:10]

npm:

i guess there needs to be a mythtv installer vans all over town showing people how to do it :-)

[22:03:15]

sphery:

you mean the proposal to remove all component output from the STBs?

[22:03:16]

jpabq:

All the latest Directv HD STBs support control via USB.

[22:03:25]

sphery:

oh, really? that's cool

[22:03:55]

sphery:

I knew they had dropped the serial channel changing, but didn't realize they added USB

[22:04:23]

skd5aner:

spehry: usually I'm optomistic by nature, but I've got a feeling that the folks trying to reduce the output quality of component-out are trying really hard to get their way

[22:04:45]

skd5aner:

not necessarily removal – just degredation to a max of 480p

[22:04:54]

wagnerrp:

480i

[22:05:12]

wagnerrp:

at which point you just have to get a HDFury along with your HDPVR

[22:05:16]

jpabq:

Yeah. Unfortunately, both the Directv STB and your computer want to be the "master", so you have to use a null modem cable in-between. Still, it works very well, and is one of the primary reasons I chose Directv over Dish.

[22:05:18]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: well – regardless – less than HD

[22:05:20]

wagnerrp:

roughly double the price

[22:06:03]

sphery:

and, should they succeed at breaking component output, they will definitely kill the HD Fury

[22:06:08]

skd5aner:

I hard 480p simply because they know the majority of devices anymore are progressive, but either way – sucky reduced resolution

[22:06:26]

skd5aner:

er... heard

[22:06:27]

sphery:

480p makes sense since even DVD's do that

[22:06:54]

sphery:

but then again, sense and media companies don't necessarily get along

[22:07:19]

skd5aner:

sigh – seems to be the case :/

[22:07:39]

wagnerrp:

sphery: apparently the HDFury would bypass the issue

[22:07:46]

skd5aner:

I was trying to google, there was some news a few months ago about a specific push to lower component out in the next several years

[22:08:07]

wagnerrp:

since it would be a compliant HDMI/HDCP device, and outside the scope of the AACS image constraint token

[22:08:19]

skd5aner:

The HDFury is something I've briefly looked out, and it could potentially resolve the issue – but I don't know how HDCP could factor in to basically disable it too

[22:08:35]

jpabq:

skd5aner, last I saw, they were trying to do that by the end of *this* year. I hope they don't succeed.

[22:08:37]

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[22:08:37]

skd5aner:

honestly haven't researched it much

[22:08:43]

npm:

like i said, seems like an antitrust case waiting to happen. directv owns the airwaves, but they shoulnd't own the dvr market

[22:09:19]

npm:

it would be like microsoft forcing everybody to use IE for the web

[22:09:26]

skd5aner:

well, Tivo just won a patent lawsuit against dish, dtv, and others about DVR patent infringement

[22:09:53]

skd5aner:

so – apparently *they* own the DVR market (or at least the licensing rights) ;)

[22:10:03]

npm:

makes sense. dtv had tivo. copied it. tried doing their own. failed. went back to tivo

[22:10:09]

npm:

and various other gyrations

[22:10:50]

npm:

of course what happens is that tivo then gets a few "patent carsds" in it's deck that it can use to harass other companies into letting it steal their ideas

[22:11:16]

skd5aner:

tivo ruling: http://www.informationweek.com/news/hardware/ . . . ID=223101675

[22:11:32]

npm:

same patent warring described here http://www.linuxworld.com/news/2010/031010-ex . . . x_2010-03-10

[22:14:13]

npm:

"TiVo had accused EchoStar of violating its patent that allows consumers to record one show while watching another." — is that even a valid patent? certainly there was prior art before tivo

[22:14:56]

wagnerrp:

the patent is made valid by it being very detailed about specifically what it covers

[22:15:15]

wagnerrp:

its not just one thing that allows customers to record one thing while watching another

[22:15:32]

npm:

pretty soon, to develop opensource, we'll have to hide in caves in afganistan ... just to prevent apple/google/ibm/hp from suing people for coming up w/ obvious ideas

[22:15:43]

wagnerrp:

it was a series of co-processors, buffers, and other mechanisms that allowed it to be done on pathetic hardware

[22:15:54]

npm:

like the old patent from ibm on object oriented programming.

[22:15:58]

skd5aner:

Nope – just have your own patent portfolio as a deterant....

[22:16:29]

npm:

that's tjhe terrible thing. i don't

[22:16:38]

skd5aner:

that's how it works – people don't sue others, they license each other's works, and have an unsaid agreement of "you don't sue us, we won't sue you"

[22:17:03]

skd5aner:

look at why apple sued HTC, way easier target than Google

[22:17:25]

npm:

so does canonical get sued first ;_)

[22:17:59]

npm:

since it would be pointless to sue fedora-unity :-)

[22:18:09]

skd5aner:

Here's a decent article regarding component out degredation/disabling efforts: http://www.audioholics.com/news/industry-news . . . mponent-2010

[22:18:33]

skd5aner:

I don't know how many patents either have, 0?

[22:19:11]

skd5aner:

I would think patents are by definition, not open (kinda)

[22:19:40]

skd5aner:

I mean – why would you patent something, other than to maybe take credit for an invention if anyone can then take that invention and do whatever they want with it

[22:19:50]

wagnerrp:

patents are by definition open

[22:19:59]

wagnerrp:

if it were not open, you couldnt patent it

[22:20:04]

skd5aner:

as a corporation that is – or maybe you could proactively patent something to prevent others from patent abuse

[22:20:09]

npm:

patents are open, but open source is usually not patented

[22:20:14]

skd5aner:

not what I meant wagnerrp

[22:21:01]

skd5aner:

I meant, the purpose of patenting something to protect your work so that other's don't steal it or claim it as their own – obviously the patent process, but it's very nature, is extremely open

[22:21:01]

npm:

so the issue is that sometyhing like mythtv getting sued for patent infringement... well you have to have something w/ money to sue

[22:21:27]

skd5aner:

not that I explained that clearly the first go around

[22:21:29]

npm:

and the infringement can be for doing something obvious, like a popup menu on a dvr

[22:22:05]

skd5aner:

what I shouldhave said is "I would think the point of patenting something, does not necessarily align with the spirit of open source" :)

[22:22:36]

skd5aner:

since any form of software patent is pretty much absurd

[22:22:37]

npm:

it's contradictory to opensource. c.f. stallman on patents

[22:23:19]

skd5aner:

sphery: you around?

[22:23:23]

npm:

i think the patent system needs to be challenged on grounds of freedom of speech and freedom of association

[22:23:32]

npm:

at least w/r/t open source

[22:23:59]

wagnerrp:

i think the patent system needs to be reworked, i DO NOT think it needs to be challenged or removed

[22:24:15]

npm:

i do

[22:24:24]

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[22:24:38]

skd5aner:

I'm split – I'm pro and anti patent, but sometimes I'm both at the same time :S

[22:24:43]

npm:

it's unfair to anybody other than big companies w/ patent portfolios. see the link i posted on sun earlier

[22:25:02]

npm:

sun dishing on apple and other co's using patents to strong-arm other companiesd

[22:25:06]

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[22:25:07]

wagnerrp:

thats why it needs to be reworked

[22:25:11]

wagnerrp:

since its being abused

[22:25:35]

npm:

it's basically an anti-trust issue at the corp level, and a constitutiuonal issue for US open source developers (IMHO)

[22:25:37]

skd5aner:

part of the problem is the people in the patent office, who review the patents, but don't understand what it is they are looking at

[22:25:40]

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[22:25:42]

skd5aner:

that part could be changed

[22:25:50]

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[22:25:54]

npm:

yes, no more patents for OOP or blitting

[22:26:21]

npm:

long expired but still representative of the stupidity of past patents

[22:26:25]

wagnerrp:

think of it this way... you spend $5M developing some product

[22:26:45]

wagnerrp:

if you cant patent it, your competitor can reverse engineer it for $50k, and undercut your price

[22:27:03]

wagnerrp:

thus you cant sell anything, make no money, and stop developing new products

[22:27:07]

npm:

that's why you always wait for someone elese to bleed first :-)

[22:27:19]

wagnerrp:

if you dont have patents, there is no development of anything new

[22:27:30]

npm:

did visicalc have patents?

[22:27:51]

npm:

123? or how did excel happen?

[22:28:42]

sphery:

skd5aner: yeah, I'm around now

[22:28:47]

npm:

it happened by using antitrust/racketeering to unfairly subvert the orig intent of the patent system

[22:29:02]

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[22:29:06]

skd5aner:

sphery: cool, just wanted to see if you saw that link about the component out stuff...

[22:29:10]

skd5aner:

"After December 31, 2010, manufacturers will not be "allowed" introduce new hardware with component video outputs supplying more than an SD resolution (480i or 576i). If the manufacturer has existing models in its line-up, it will be able to continue selling that model until the end of 2013."

[22:29:30]

skd5aner:

thought you'd be interested

[22:29:37]

wagnerrp:

wait... not allowed?

[22:30:03]

wagnerrp:

is that _any_ new hardware? or hardware capable of bluray playback?

[22:30:23]

skd5aner:

BTW – I should add, this is related to anything that AACS passes through, so primarily bluray

[22:30:31]

sphery:

skd5aner: just clicked it--haven't read, yet

[22:30:38]

wagnerrp:

s/primarily/only/

[22:30:47]

sphery:

that's definitely not cool

[22:31:30]

npm:

yipes

[22:31:35]

skd5aner:

np, it's not necessarily a "fun" read

[22:32:08]

sphery:

yeah, I'm going to have to stop reading it because it's making me mad (and there's nothing I can do about it)

[22:32:18]

sphery:

I hate HDMI and BluRay for exactly these reasons

[22:32:25]

npm:

so i have this year to actually buy open equipment?

[22:33:22]

sphery:

but if you buy new disks after this year, they may have the image constraint token, which will tell the player to not send out high-definition through component

[22:33:30]

sphery:

even existing players have to support ICT

[22:33:32]

npm:

so what about a bluray player for a computer??

[22:33:46]

skd5aner:

yea, I wired my house for distributed component from my closet for distributed video... now, you can't even find a GT 2X0 card with component out :P

[22:33:46]

wagnerrp:

npm: same rules apply

[22:33:55]

sphery:

and, TTBOMK, no disks use it because the manufacturers agreed not to--to sucker people into buying BluRay

[22:34:04]

wagnerrp:

the computer is allowed to output HD component, if you can still find hardware that will do component

[22:34:11]

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[22:34:15]

npm:

but doesn't a bluray player (the dvd player unit) digitally read the bluray disk?

[22:34:29]

wagnerrp:

however the playback software itself must obey the ICT

[22:34:44]

wagnerrp:

in fact, i was under the impression windows playback already did the ICT

[22:35:04]

sphery:

TTBOMK, all AACS-compliant players must obey it

[22:35:09]

sphery:

though no disks use it, yet

[22:35:18]

npm:

but why worry about outputting hd component when you can just copy bits in the computer

[22:35:28]

npm:

seems like a silly law at that level

[22:35:29]

sphery:

I think iamlindoro sent a great post to the -users list with links/info on it

[22:35:30]

wagnerrp:

because you cannot copy bits in the computer

[22:35:43]

skd5aner:

I just can't believe how many legit customers are going to be hosed by these stupid measures

[22:35:59]

wagnerrp:

in order to be allowed to sell decoder software, you must provide a guaranteed protected data path all the way to the display

[22:36:22]

npm:

cannot, or are not allowed to "playback software must obey ict"

[22:36:35]

npm:

what if you want to give it away as open source?

[22:36:39]

wagnerrp:

and as such, any attempts to bypass these restrictions follow under DMCA

[22:36:51]

wagnerrp:

npm: you cannot, because you were never licensed to decode the content

[22:37:10]

** npm looks for caves in afghanistan on ebay :-) **

[22:37:13]

wagnerrp:

the only way open source could do so is if they reverse engineered their own decryption key

[22:37:18]

wagnerrp:

and again... DMCA

[22:37:37]

skd5aner:

npm: Afghanitan? You know we're currently arresting bad guys there too right?

[22:37:44]

sphery:

and kept reverse engineering the key as they keep changing it

[22:37:55]

skd5aner:

or... shooting them at least

[22:38:20]

npm:

like bin laden? they'd have got him if he was copying blurays

[22:38:25]

npm:

ok dinner time...

[22:38:43]

_abbenormal:

lol

[22:38:51]

wagnerrp:

its like the joke... just tell the student loan office hes back on his payments

[22:38:57]

skd5aner:

I've heard that joke before... if you wanted to find bin laden, send the MPAA/RIAA after him

[22:39:23]

skd5aner:

or any of the variation of "bounty" hunters out there ;)

[22:41:30]

sphery:

this is the article I was remembering: http://www.boingboing.net/2006/05/23/hdmi-the-manchurian-.html -> "Hollywood studios and some CE manufacturers have reportedly entered into an informal agreement to hold off on using the "image constraint token" in HDMI DRM until 2010 or 2012."

[22:41:42]

sphery:

seems it was too hard to wait 'til 2010

[22:41:45]

sphery:

er, 2012

[22:42:19]

sphery:

"The agreement to stay away from the image constraint token for four or six years is a way to get around this. If the DRM is kept switched off for the first 4–6 years, there's an opportunity to lure people into accepting it — to buy into devices, media, players, screens, storage and other components with HDMI crippleware within, but inactive."

[22:42:26]

skd5aner:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Access_ . . . _analog_hole

[22:42:32]

sphery:

"This is a classic Manchurian Candidate strategy. These devices behave like normal gear until the studios pull the trigger, then they turn on you. The studios talk a big game about wanting to operate in a free market, but then you get stuff like this: back-room deals, restraint of trade, and attempts to subvert the market by fooling customers into buying crippled kit."

[22:42:54]

skd5aner:

haha, I didn't see you post that sphery – that wikipedia link I sent basically quotes that

[22:43:02]

sphery:

heh

[22:43:32]

skd5aner:

You know – part of the problem is people calling it "the analog hole"

[22:43:42]

sphery:

yeah

[22:44:04]

skd5aner:

if we didn't make it sound like a giant design flaw bug, then maybe it wouldn't be so evil – eh, probably wouldn't change anything

[22:44:05]

tzanger:

sphery: sounds like the whole ACTA mess

[22:44:05]

sphery:

it's only a hole if someone attempts to use it for /already/ illegal activities

[22:44:17]

sphery:

otherwise, it's just a way to get the video to my HDTV

[22:44:20]

tzanger:

I"m happy the EU tossed it out on its arse, if now only Canada would be so direct

[22:44:33]

skd5aner:

yea – you know... like it was designed to do :)

[22:44:57]

sphery:

tzanger: and if only someone would get the US to wise up

[22:45:22]

skd5aner:

sphery: not wise up, grow some balls

[22:45:30]

tzanger:

sphery: lobby groups need to be redefined as homegrown terror cells

[22:46:39]

skd5aner:

currently, the fcc is just sitting on the sidelines, letting hollywood decide – while I'm all for smaller govt, this is one time I want them to stick up for the little guy

[22:46:58]

tzanger:

and media companies need to be told in no uncertain terms that they are not entitled to profit. if they decide to take their ball and go home, great, don't le tthe door hit you on the ass on the way out... you'll be back.

[22:48:26]

skd5aner:

tzanger: from my perspective, I could care less... what I care about is the fact they say I'm purchasing a license to only use the way they tell me it's OK, telling me exactly how I can and can't used something I PURCHASED

[22:48:55]

skd5aner:

I mean – you're right, they're not entitled to profit, but it's not unreasonable to think they should be able to make one

[22:49:40]

tzanger:

treating your customers as thieves is not a way to make profit

[22:49:47]

skd5aner:

that's why all forms of DRM really just stink for valid consumers, because pirates will always pirate

[22:49:56]

skd5aner:

drm just punishes everyone besides the pirates

[22:50:07]

tzanger:

when I buy a dvd for $30 I expect to be abl eto watch it on any equipment I have, without commercials or previews or other bullshit, as many times as I want

[22:50:26]

skd5aner:

indeed – remember "divx" (not DivX)?

[22:50:46]

tzanger:

yep

[22:51:11]

skd5aner:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIVX_(Digital_Video_Express)

[22:51:21]

tzanger:

put out a good product, don't make me sit through shit, you'll make profit

[22:51:35]

skd5aner:

you could only watch it on authorized players, and then you couldn't take it and watch it at someone elses house, etc

[22:51:36]

skd5aner:

:P

[22:52:05]

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[22:53:29]

skd5aner:

anyway – deep breaths, new topic :)

[22:53:36]

tzanger:

heh

[22:53:55]

skd5aner:

so how about all those firewire channels I can't tune, huh?

[22:53:58]

skd5aner:

;)

[22:54:04]

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[22:54:53]

skd5aner:

and with that, I think I'm out – good night :)

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