Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Thursday, May 6th, 2010, 00:01 AST

[00:01:59]

sphery:

I didn't watch

[00:02:35]

wagnerrp:

anyway, the email hadnt even showed up in my inbox until iamlindoro mentioned that someone needed to reply to it and correct him

[00:03:08]

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[00:05:14]

sphery:

heh, I missed his comment, too

[00:06:35]

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[00:50:48]

dougt:

i am getting lots of "prebuffering pause"'s on HD content. I am pretty sure my FE's are under powered. Until I replace them with something better, is there a way to transcode the recording (lossy) so that I can view it in myth.

[00:51:01]

dougt:

fwiw, viewing the ASX stream looks fine.

[00:55:03]

[R]:

mythtranscode?

[00:55:53]

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Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v Captain_Murdoch

[00:57:12]

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[00:57:35]

dougt:

yeah, i understand there is a program that does it, but is there a good way to tie it in. Maybe through a user job?

[00:58:00]

wagnerrp:

mythtranscode as a userjob?

[00:58:32]

dougt:

you tell me?

[00:58:54]

wagnerrp:

im saying mythtranscode is intended to be run through the jobqueue

[00:59:01]

dougt:

wagnerrp: got a HDPRV and the content that is coming off of it isn't playable on most of my fe's.

[00:59:18]

wagnerrp:

most external transcoders tied into mythtv are designed to be run through the jobqueue

[00:59:35]

dougt:

just trying to figure out the best way to reduce the quality so that I can watch the content.

[00:59:50]

wagnerrp:

improve the quality of the frontend?

[01:00:07]

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[01:00:31]

dougt:

wagnerrp: well, it is pausing now... so playback is pretty bad.

[01:00:48]

dougt:

i would happily reduce the quality some so that the content is watchable

[01:00:58]

wagnerrp:

by 'improve the quality of the frontend', i mean 'purchase a new one'

[01:01:09]

ezzieyguywuf:

yowsa!

[01:01:13]

dougt:

ah, yeah. totally

[01:01:13]

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[01:01:20]

dougt:

but not going to happen for a bit.

[01:01:26]

wagnerrp:

what is the content?

[01:01:32]

wagnerrp:

ATSC? HDPVR recordings?

[01:01:35]

** ezzieyguywuf will be myth-gentoo 'ing it soon **

[01:01:43]

** ezzieyguywuf has a lot to learn... **

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[01:01:55]

dougt:

wagnerrp: HDPRV recordings

[01:02:25]

wagnerrp:

you need a Core2 ~2.5GHz of an Athlon64 ~3GHz to manage playback of full bitrate HDPVR recordings

[01:02:36]

wagnerrp:

alternatively, you can simply drop the bitrate of the HDPVR

[01:02:40]

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[01:03:02]

dougt:

wagnerrp: something like....

[01:03:07]

dougt:

v4l2-ctl --device=/dev/video1 --set-ctrl=video_bitrate=#####

[01:03:08]

wagnerrp:

or a third option, upgrade to nvidia graphics cards, 8000 series or better, and use VDPAU

[01:03:14]

wagnerrp:

no no no no....

[01:03:16]

wagnerrp:

you do it in mythtv

[01:03:41]

dougt:

the backend?

[01:03:49]

dougt:

i do not recall seeing that option.

[01:03:51]

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[01:04:51]

wagnerrp:

utilities --> setup --> tv settings --> recording profiles -->

[01:04:59]

wagnerrp:

there should be an HDPVR option in there, but i dont see it on mine

[01:05:11]

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[01:05:29]

dougt:

is that per front end?

[01:05:43]

wagnerrp:

no, you do it in the frontend, but its a global setting

[01:06:02]

dougt:

(that always confused me about myth — some of the global settings were in the front end and others were in the backend)

[01:06:11]

** jst__ crosses his fingers. **

[01:06:18]

dougt:

hey jst__

[01:06:18]

jst__:

I think it's compiling.

[01:06:25]

wagnerrp:

the split is dependent on whether you need to restart the backend

[01:06:27]

jst__:

I'll upload a patch and the binary.

[01:06:34]

wagnerrp:

not whether the settings are local or global

[01:06:41]

jst__:

dougt, sup?

[01:06:46]

wagnerrp:

any setting in the frontend can be manipulated at any time

[01:07:02]

wagnerrp:

most settings in mythtv-setup require a restart of the backend before they take

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[01:18:15]

dougt:

wagnerrp: thanks (again!)

[01:21:24]

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[01:31:40]

jst__:

wagnerrp, you seem to be the most knowledgeable person here. :) How come if I set a type of show (say "Sports events") to record an additional 120 minutes on Tuner 1, even though another recording may start within that timeframe on Tuner 3 (independent of Tuner 1), Tuner 1 won't record for the additional time?

[01:31:53]

jst__:

They're not interfering with each other, you know?

[01:32:10]

jst__:

w00t! Successfully compiled win32.

[01:32:20]

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[01:38:15]

dougt:

jst__: trunk?

[01:38:42]

jst__:

0.23 head.

[01:38:48]

jst__:

It's not very stable. :(

[01:44:02]

** wagnerrp takes a close second to... most of the other devs **

[01:44:27]

wagnerrp:

0.23-fixes is perfectly stable

[01:44:39]

wagnerrp:

trunk is relatively stable at the moment

[01:44:48]

wagnerrp:

but severe breakage is expected any time now

[01:45:11]

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[01:45:18]

wagnerrp:

there is no '0.23 head', as 0.23 is not in active developemtn

[01:45:22]

wagnerrp:

bugfixes only

[01:46:45]

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[01:48:03]

[R]:

that's what she said?

[01:48:06]

[R]:

haha

[01:48:15]

wagnerrp:

bugfixes only?

[01:48:33]

[R]:

it was kinda a combination of 'head' and 'active development' that kinda made me giggle

[01:49:29]

jst__:

Hmm, so i shouldn't be compiling with -r HEAD?

[01:49:39]

jst__:

And, yes, that's what she said.

[01:49:39]

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[01:49:50]

wagnerrp:

i have no idea what '-r HEAD' means

[01:50:05]

jst__:

Seems to get the latest version of 0.23-fixes.

[01:50:24]

wagnerrp:

'head' should always point to trunk

[01:50:38]

dougt:

head == tip

[01:50:54]

jst__:

Tip drill?

[01:51:44]

dougt:

not sure what that is.

[01:51:59]

wagnerrp:

dougt: if you want to keep going with those metaphors, i would hate to see what your 'trunk' looks like with all those branches hanging off of it

[01:52:24]

** dougt gives up. **

[01:52:36]

wagnerrp:

usually growths such as that require a doctor's visit

[01:52:50]

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[01:54:13]

dougt:

urban dictionary explained what a tip drill is.

[01:54:50]

dougt:

i was hoping google would have returned something like a special drill bit that you use when drilling through some different kind of material.

[01:54:54]

dougt:

but... no....

[01:54:56]

dougt:

not even close

[01:56:02]

jst__:

wagnerrp, by the way, this is why I run -r head: http://www.acetylcholine.com/node/72048#comment-197284

[01:56:12]

jst__:

I agree, it is confusing.

[01:56:34]

wagnerrp:

jst__: that is syntax used solely by that particular packager script

[01:56:46]

wagnerrp:

it is not common wording in mythtv

[01:56:55]

jst__:

Yeah, figured as much.

[01:57:36]

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[01:57:52]

dougt:

it is common in some version control systems. (CVS)

[01:57:54]

jst__:

Ohh, just realize I completely misinterpreted dought's question earlier about "trunk?" No, I am running 0.23-fixes with Mythbuntu updates and it is rock-solid.

[01:58:17]

dougt:

yeah, i am running trunk and need to get around building w32 sometime

[01:58:43]

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[01:59:00]

jst__:

I just built a binary if you want to try it out. It's not very stable, so I applied two more patches (manually, might I add... patch -p0 < file.txt isn't working for me for some reason, even though the files are in the correct directory), and I'm rebuilding it.

[01:59:45]

jst__:

Also, someone hosts unofficial builds, but they're not very stable, at least not for 0.23.

[01:59:54]

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[01:59:58]

wagnerrp:

unix vs. dos endlines?

[01:59:59]

dougt:

yeah, i have been putting some mac builds up.

[02:00:39]

jst__:

Stupid question, but can you use firewire to change STB channels instead of an IR blaster?

[02:00:47]

wagnerrp:

yes

[02:01:11]

jst__:

Thanks.

[02:01:15]

wagnerrp:

see the many firewire based channel changers formerly in contrib, now on the wiki

[02:01:29]

jst__:

I'm moving to Maryland in a few weeks and will need to do the whole STB/HDPVR thing.

[02:01:55]

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[02:02:09]

jst__:

(Comcast and FiOS are my only options there.)

[02:02:15]

jst__:

Err, Xfinity? Lulz.

[02:02:59]

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[02:03:37]

dougt:

jst__: i am using fw to change the channel of a comcast box. no really issue.

[02:03:54]

dougt:

getting video off the thing had lots of FAIL.

[02:04:01]

dougt:

comcast is a real bitch.

[02:04:13]

jst__:

HDPVR?

[02:04:23]

dougt:

i bought one, and an using that instead.

[02:04:52]

dougt:

so, FW to tune. cablebox -> HDPVR over component for video

[02:05:09]

jst__:

and HDPVR -> USB -> PC?

[02:05:13]

dougt:

y

[02:05:20]

jst__:

Roger.

[02:05:46]

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[02:05:49]

dougt:

works okay, but as you saw above, i had to reduce the bitrate to watch in on some of the Frontends I have that are under powered.

[02:06:05]

jst__:

I'll probably go with FiOS. Hate the idea of Comcast bandwidth caps. Not sure I'd even come close to exceeding them, but I just think it's a horrible idea altogether.

[02:06:27]

jst__:

Ahh, yeah. I'd have to do the same with my HP Mini 1000.

[02:06:42]

jst__:

(Intel 945GME)

[02:07:16]

dougt:

I would bet FiOS also has some cap.

[02:07:25]

dougt:

they are all starting to.

[02:07:56]

jst__:

I use newsgroups a lot. Sometimes I can't find shows locally (ex: Red Bull Air Racing). I'm scared I'd exceed it.

[02:08:40]

jst__:

Streaming movies would freak me out too.

[02:10:12]

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[02:10:17]

dougt:

my hope is that cable tv dies and all content is over ip

[02:10:47]

jst__:

I don't know. 50% of the reason why I use Myth is for mythcommflag.

[02:10:47]

wagnerrp:

streamed movies are generally pretty pathetic bitrate

[02:11:00]

wagnerrp:

you would have to be streaming for about 5 days straight before you hit comcast's bandwidth cap

[02:11:13]

jst__:

I know Hulu's, for example, ads are minimal, but annoying to say the least.

[02:11:17]

wagnerrp:

and talk of getting tv shows over newsgroups is disallowed in this channel

[02:11:26]

jst__:

Ohh, my bad.

[02:11:28]

jst__:

:-X

[02:11:28]

dougt:

heh

[02:12:23]

wagnerrp:

as are bittorrent, any other p2p program, or any copyrighted content from any unlicensed distributor

[02:12:40]

dougt:

wagnerrp: those aren't the same.

[02:12:43]

jst__:

That brings up an interesting question.

[02:12:58]

jst__:

If something is broadcast OTA, and I download a torrent of that show, is that considered illegal?

[02:13:03]

wagnerrp:

yes

[02:13:05]

dougt:

yes

[02:13:08]

jst__:

Wow.

[02:13:11]

wagnerrp:

unquestionably

[02:13:14]

jst__:

I could see HBO miniseries, etc.

[02:13:24]

jst__:

But "Chuck" or "24" or something?

[02:13:26]

wagnerrp:

why is that surprising?

[02:13:43]

jst__:

Because they're broadcasting the signal for free OTA anyways.

[02:13:50]

jst__:

It's like recording a song off the radio.

[02:14:02]

wagnerrp:

yes, the stations have paid to broadcast that, they have paid for the right to do so

[02:14:03]

jst__:

Meh, I guess I need to get with the times and/or lawyered-up. :)

[02:15:27]

jst__:

Any chance that this will be usable within Myth: http://www.silicondust.com/press&nbs p;?

[02:15:42]

jst__:

(I know it says WM7)

[02:15:55]

wagnerrp:

very possibly yes

[02:16:39]

jst__:

That would be amazing. I have no problem paying for the content. I have a big problem with using Windows Media Center.

[02:16:51]

wagnerrp:

but not for the purposes that you want

[02:17:20]

wagnerrp:

one of the SD engineers was in here a week or so ago, revamping our libraries, and fixing some bugs we had

[02:17:29]

wagnerrp:

theres a rather large patch on trac waiting for review

[02:17:37]

jst__:

I'm confused.

[02:17:44]

jst__:

Not for the purposes I want?

[02:17:48]

wagnerrp:

one of the things it supposedly does is add some new support for those devices

[02:17:50]

wagnerrp:

HOWEVER

[02:17:55]

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[02:18:22]

wagnerrp:

the cable labs licensing stipulates that copy flagged content must follow a protected, encrypted path all the way from the cable line to the display

[02:18:39]

wagnerrp:

mythtv cannot provide such a thing, and will likely never provide such a thing

[02:18:54]

wagnerrp:

linux cannot provide such a thing without some dedicated and purpose built hardware

[02:19:11]

dougt:

wagnerrp: can anything?

[02:19:17]

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[02:19:17]

wagnerrp:

so... use of thise device in mythtv will be limited to those channel that are flagged 'copy freely'

[02:19:44]

wagnerrp:

dougt: WMC can do it just fine, thanks to that mass of DRM and protected path that went into Vista and 7

[02:20:14]

wagnerrp:

DRM relies on obfuscation in order to give the users the keys but prevent them from actually being able to use them

[02:20:29]

wagnerrp:

an open system like linux or mythtv simply cannot provide that

[02:20:39]

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[02:21:19]

jst__:

So utterly pointless.

[02:21:24]

jst__:

DRM always gets defeated.

[02:21:28]

wagnerrp:

the only way it works is something like the tivo, where they have a dedicated hardware pipeline to handle decryption, decoding, and playback of the content, so the unencrypted video never touches the underlying linux OS

[02:22:08]

wagnerrp:

the end result, if this thing does become usable by mythtv, it will only be able to use those copy freely shows that you can probably pick up over firewire anyway

[02:22:18]

jst__:

Yeah.

[02:22:23]

wagnerrp:

so you either get a $250 box and a fairly cheap m-card rental

[02:22:28]

wagnerrp:

or a more expensive STB rental

[02:22:55]

wagnerrp:

either way, youre still stuck with an HDPVR for most of your cable content

[02:23:11]

jst__:

Are there any issues with running multiple HDPVRs?

[02:23:13]

dougt:

which is fine by me.

[02:23:21]

wagnerrp:

no, i do not believe so

[02:23:26]

dougt:

(i mean, given that they want to be total jerks about it)

[02:23:58]

wagnerrp:

dougt: this is not them being jerks, this is them maintaining consumer lock in

[02:24:07]

dougt:

wagnerrp: same thing

[02:24:09]

wagnerrp:

they were required by the FCC to come up with this modular scheme

[02:24:25]

wagnerrp:

so they decided to create one where the cost of entry was so excessive, no one ever did

[02:24:26]

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[02:24:35]

jst__:

If WM7 had software frontends, I'd consider using it.

[02:24:54]

wagnerrp:

which is why until very recently, there were only a handful of capable devices beside the cableco's own STBs

[02:25:30]

wagnerrp:

and funny that these latest round of new devices only started springing up around the same time the FCC declared the scheme worthless

[02:25:44]

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[02:25:57]

wagnerrp:

so its kind of a last hurrah trying to get this hardware to market fast, so the fcc cant mandate that they switch to something new

[02:26:02]

dougt:

wagnerrp: comparing fw output with the HDPVR (over component) on HD1080 content full bitrate, I couldn't tell the difference.

[02:26:12]

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[02:26:51]

dougt:

on and wagnerrp the HD PVR is only 210 on amazon now

[02:27:07]

wagnerrp:

dougt: the HDPVR is only $200 retail, amazon is ripping you off

[02:27:30]

dougt:

204.99

[02:27:39]

dougt:

got a place cheaper?

[02:28:08]

wagnerrp:

http://store.hauppauge.com/hardware2.asp?product=hd_pvr

[02:28:35]

dougt:

ah. tax

[02:30:14]

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[02:30:56]

dougt:

zzzz

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[02:32:49]

jst__:

$200 is still kind of steep. Especially if you want two, and have to rent two STBs from your cable/sat provider.

[02:33:15]

jst__:

We have NTSC here, but not in Maryland. :(

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[02:52:56]

dfletcher:

200 is not steep considering that it's like the only option. they have the market cornered. it could be 600 :P

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[03:09:55]

ddrj:

jeez 200 bux

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[03:26:30]

justinh:

apt-cache search xen

[03:26:34]

justinh:

derrrrrr

[03:27:37]

justinh:

btw yers, that means I'm looking at using a VM.. but just for a site I'm thinking about hosting at home

[03:35:36]

justinh:

eew. I have to change kernels to set up a virtual machine? MEH

[03:36:50]

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[03:38:43]

mzb:

used to issues running xen kernels in dom0 with nvidia cards .. .not sure if that's still the case

[03:39:23]

justinh:

decided to shelve it til I know what I'm doing :)

[03:39:42]

justinh:

looks like maybe qemu is less intrusive to my existing install

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[03:41:18]

mzb:

hmm, probably not as fast ... ymmv

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AndyCap:

justinh: qemu-kvm should have more than decent performance if debian kernels have kvm support

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[06:48:04]

justinh:

tbh I dunno if I even need to run the site in a vm

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[07:12:30]

clever:

if you must, use chroot, but even that is overkill if you maintain apache right

[07:14:07]

gbee:

I'm yet to 'get' VMs, although in the case of web services/sites I can see that it adds a measure of security

[07:19:02]

clever:

and can also give a bit of false security, if somebody roots the vm they can basicaly connect to anything on the lan enless you firewall it off

[07:22:20]

justinh:

precisely my reason for thinking about it :)

[07:22:39]

justinh:

if I end up hosting this site at home I won't want it pulling my backend down

[07:23:48]

justinh:

I'd rather it be hosted externally – uk2.net has a good looking offer on at the mo – £2.99 plus VAT per month with 2 years for the price of one

[07:26:36]

clever:

my main server is hosted on a frontend and a secondary one on the master.... :S

[07:28:24]

justinh:

have to make a presentation of my ideas on monday to the club committee. some of them even know how to use email, so that'll be fun

[07:28:52]

clever:

lol, yeah its always fun when the other guy doesnt have a clue

[07:29:10]

clever:

sometimes explaining it in very simple words winds up making the problem i was trying to solve obvious

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justinh:

heheh. customising wordpress can be fun :D

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gbee:

as fun as creating a MythTV theme?

[08:32:37]

justinh:

depends what you call fun ;)

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[10:02:32]

J-e-f-f-A:

[ot] – Lost fans – I heard on the radio today that the finale will be 2–1/2 hours instead of 2 hrs – make sure your schedules are updated... ;-) (I'm not a fan, but thought I'd pass along what I heard...)

[10:06:29]

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[10:08:02]

justinh:

I wouldn't have :D

[10:11:04]

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[10:11:33]

quicksilver:

well that's my wife's birthday present sorted

[10:11:45]

quicksilver:

as long as the DVD is out before october

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[10:12:14]

justinh:

IMHO it's cruel to buy people box sets as presents

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[10:19:41]

J-e-f-f-A:

Yeah, I hate it when I get cereal for my birthday.

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[10:31:58]

n3hxs:

J-e-f-f-A: So you got something in the box? Lucky!

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justinh:

awww. some mail servers don't accept incoming from dynamic IPs

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[10:35:32]

cr4sh:

I have a question if anyone can answer.. I have a Gigabyte GT-PTV-TAF-RH and tried setting it up in mythbuntu 8.04 and 9.10.. both of them fail to probe the cards info so it doesn't seem to work when I had channels etc

[10:35:49]

cr4sh:

it comes up with a genernic/unknown card saa7134

[10:36:02]

justinh:

nothing to do with the motherboard & more to do with the tuner card

[10:36:13]

justinh:

and/or lack of drivers for it in linux

[10:36:17]

cr4sh:

yeah that is the tuner card

[10:36:34]

mag0o:

woohoo, new laptop in today :) c2d, 4gb ram, nvidia quadro nvs 160m

[10:36:49]

justinh:

so, what make & model is the tuner card?

[10:36:56]

cr4sh:

Gigabyte GT-PTV-TAF-RH

[10:37:09]

justinh:

gigabyte make tuners? :-O

[10:37:28]

cr4sh:

yeah apparently it used a phillips saa7134 tuner on it

[10:37:31]

mindjuju:

quick question, i've been reading http://www.mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-23.html towards the bottom where it discusses the diff between hauppauge pvr models. if I can get 2 pvr150 cheaper than the pvr500, it doesn't seem like i lose any additional feature, right?

[10:37:32]

justinh:

ah well. take it back & buy one supported by linux

[10:37:38]

mindjuju:

other than the fact that i'm using a second PCI slot

[10:37:44]

justinh:

mindjuju: precisely

[10:38:11]

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[10:38:26]

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[10:38:30]

mindjuju:

awesome, thx justinh

[10:38:40]

justinh:

cr4sh: I STRONGLY recommend you stay away from framegrabber type tuners – i.e. analogue tuners without hardware encoding onboard

[10:39:00]

cr4sh:

im guessing thats what this one is

[10:39:04]

justinh:

yup

[10:39:34]

cr4sh:

oh well it was only $30

[10:39:38]

cr4sh:

no big loss

[10:39:41]

justinh:

they often don't capture audio onboard either, meaning you need a soundcard per tuner card – which makes things very complicated if you want more than one tuner

[10:39:46]

justinh:

you were ripped off :)

[10:39:55]

cr4sh:

in australian dollars..

[10:39:58]

justinh:

I paid about that for my digital tuner cards, and less :)

[10:40:11]

justinh:

ah. I dunno what that is in real money :P

[10:40:24]

cr4sh:

lol are you from the states?

[10:40:32]

justinh:

hell no

[10:41:28]

cr4sh:

what card would you recommend from this list?

[10:41:29]

cr4sh:

http://umart.com.au/pro/products_listnew.phtm . . . 2&id2=56

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[10:47:12]

justinh:

I don't do lists :)

[10:47:30]

justinh:

but if you're in australia why not go for a dvb-t tuner or two instead?

[10:48:03]

justinh:

see the wiki at linuxtv.org to see what's supported in linux before you buy :)

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[11:09:13]

ver:

i like how virgin cable sells every package for xx.95. cars are xx,999.99... companies just love selling by 9s.

[11:09:49]

ver:

nothing costs $10, it's all $9.99, which is waaay cheaper..

[11:11:20]

johnnyj:

there's a sandwich shop near my home that doesn't use pennies

[11:11:38]

johnnyj:

the sign says 'we have no cents'

[11:12:21]

ver:

nice

[11:14:13]

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[11:19:06]

J-e-f-f-A:

isn't there an AUS version of the HDHomeRun nowadays??? (Granted, for DVB only, not if you want to capture analog)

[11:19:28]

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[11:20:55]

J-e-f-f-A:

Humm.. I guess cr4sh is gone... oh well...

[11:21:09]

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[11:21:32]

J-e-f-f-A:

justinh: you must have scared him away... ;-)

[11:23:24]

gbee:

the DVB-T HDHomeRun is available in Australia/New Zealand

[11:26:28]

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[11:26:54]

iamlindoro:

And it'll even do DVB-C (though I'm not sure how useful a DVB-C capture device without CI is)

[11:27:05]

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[11:29:09]

J-e-f-f-A:

iamlindoro: Did you see my note earlier about Lost? (of course, you probably already know... ;-) )

[11:29:27]

iamlindoro:

Yes, I already knew, but the finale isn't even on the schedule yet so no need to refresh them

[11:29:37]

J-e-f-f-A:

Ah, ok. ;-)

[11:30:01]

quicksilver:

justinh: btw, why is it cruel to buy people box sets?

[11:31:05]

iamlindoro:

gulp, someone wondering why myth isn't running well with their Radeon 9200

[11:31:21]

iamlindoro:

ummmm because it's a decade old

[11:33:49]

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[11:34:53]

quicksilver:

myth runs fine on my radeon 9250

[11:35:00]

quicksilver:

(not sure if that's significantly different from a 9200)

[11:35:02]

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[11:35:09]

wagnerrp:

9250 was AGP, wasnt the 9200 PCI?

[11:35:16]

quicksilver:

old reliable hardware with good drivers is fine.

[11:35:35]

quicksilver:

I thought my cards were PCI but I don't remember clearly :)

[11:35:44]

quicksilver:

probably you're right.

[11:35:58]

wagnerrp:

i had one of each

[11:36:10]

wagnerrp:

pretty sure the 9250 was AGP-only, the 9200 was PCI-only

[11:36:41]

quicksilver:

when I did my investigations it was one of the few efforts which support TV-out with open source drivers

[11:37:03]

wagnerrp:

its somewhat of a sliding scale

[11:37:09]

wagnerrp:

AMD drops support after about 2 years

[11:37:15]

wagnerrp:

OSS picks up support after about 4

[11:38:00]

quicksilver:

although to be fair to AMD, some of the OSS support is paid for by them ;)

[11:39:44]

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[11:44:16]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: you missed one... check Doorbell's edits

[11:44:59]

iamlindoro:

Got it, thanks

[11:46:18]

wagnerrp:

so do spammers assume that all wikis are used for is people looking for research for an essay?

[11:46:46]

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[11:46:54]

wagnerrp:

... i guess someone who would consider buying an essay would use a wiki as their only source of research

[11:47:13]

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[11:47:24]

quicksilver:

I don't htink spammers assume anythign. Not the good ones. They just do what they're paid to do.

[11:47:25]

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[11:47:37]

quicksilver:

or one level back, they try stuff, test stuff, and do exactly what makes the most money.

[11:47:40]

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[11:47:49]

quicksilver:

really it's google's business model precisely.

[11:48:14]

wagnerrp:

well... google provides their own content to spam

[11:48:25]

wagnerrp:

spammers corrupt other people's content

[11:48:45]

quicksilver:

yes, I just meant the finely honed statistical nature of it

[11:48:57]

quicksilver:

adwords algorthims are tuned to display the ads which make the most money

[11:49:05]

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[11:49:11]

quicksilver:

not the best ones, or the most relevant ones – just precisely those ones which end up with google earning the most

[11:49:24]

quicksilver:

good spammers are the same. They monitor how much links earn them

[11:49:35]

quicksilver:

and they spam the ones which earn the most in the best places.

[11:53:18]

johnnyj:

dare i say it? I haven't had a spam problem since I went to gmail

[11:53:33]

johnnyj:

which is like 6 years

[11:53:44]

quicksilver:

their spam filtering is pretty good, yes

[11:53:56]

quicksilver:

have you been more careful of your gmail address than you were of the old one?

[11:54:26]

johnnyj:

um – yeah – that's true – but my careful I mean I dont give it to retailers

[11:54:29]

denjeveln_:

johnnyj i wonder why the heck i get like 50 spams a week about enlarge your penis

[11:54:31]

johnnyj:

like at POS

[11:54:40]

denjeveln_:

i guess my gf have sent my mails to them?!

[11:54:48]

johnnyj:

denjeveln_: how do they know?

[11:54:52]

wagnerrp:

no, google is just pretty good about blocking spam

[11:55:02]

wagnerrp:

no sense letting others hone in on their business

[11:55:23]

johnnyj:

i mean if I but clothing at a mall retailer and they ask for my email I just say no

[11:55:32]

johnnyj:

s/but/buy

[11:55:36]

quicksilver:

50 a week is nothing.

[11:55:41]

quicksilver:

I get just under 1000 a day

[11:55:52]

quicksilver:

pre-filter, of course

[11:56:00]

quicksilver:

I manage to filter 95–97% normally

[11:56:03]

wagnerrp:

im closer to 50/wk

[11:56:10]

quicksilver:

wagnerrp: quite.

[11:56:29]

johnnyj:

gmail doesnt even show me the spam folder, I had forgotten about it

[11:56:41]

quicksilver:

but my email address hasn't changed for 15 years or so

[11:56:46]

quicksilver:

and I posted widely to usenet in the old days

[11:56:52]

johnnyj:

i looked in it yesterday (coincidently to this convo) and I had maybe 9

[11:56:53]

quicksilver:

had it on web pages etc.

[11:57:19]

wagnerrp:

well this is a combination of three separate addresses, the oldest one is maybe 12yrs old

[11:57:19]

johnnyj:

i've written a couple wiki's here and there

[11:57:27]

johnnyj:

using my email

[11:57:42]

johnnyj:

i suspected the mythtv-users list to get me on some spam

[11:57:52]

johnnyj:

if it has i haven't noticed

[11:58:25]

quicksilver:

wagnerrp: yes, I did notice the other day that quite a lot of the spam which gets caught is sent to an even older address which has a forwarding. I didn't even know that one still worked, I certainly dont' give it out to anyone.

[11:59:43]

johnnyj:

TWC made me verify every single piece of data, including my email every time i called

[11:59:54]

johnnyj:

(i had this nightmare going on last month)

[12:00:34]

johnnyj:

i got really tired ot spelling J-B-O-S-S

[12:02:38]

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[12:03:24]

gbee:

quicksilver: 30–50 spam emails slip through your filters every day?

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[12:03:39]

quicksilver:

gbee: something like that, yes

[12:03:55]

gbee:

ouch

[12:04:07]

quicksilver:

yeah. I don't get much useful email either :)

[12:04:19]

quicksilver:

everyone I actually want to talk to uses IM or facebook these days :-/

[12:04:29]

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[12:04:35]

quicksilver:

the most useful emails I get are order confirmations and stuff.

[12:04:54]

J-e-f-f-A:

hehehe... I setup an email address years ago... "junk_inbox@____.net"... even using it for groups, etc, the spambot email scanners throw it out, assuming it's fake, since I don't get junk email on it...

[12:05:28]

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[12:05:34]

quicksilver:

haha, that's clever.

[12:06:20]

gbee:

spamassassin with some tuned scores manages to keep the amount of spam I see down to maybe 3/4 a week max, I've no idea what that's down from but since I've used the same email for years it's not going to be a small number

[12:07:44]

johnnyj:

common names suck for work email addresses too – when I was converted to full time employee they insisted on making me work email john and not johnny – I suddenly started getting spam

[12:07:59]

gbee:

vast majority goes straight to /dev/null, anything below a certain threshold goes into a spam folder as a safety net, but I can count the false positives on one hand

[12:09:47]

wagnerrp:

ive got spamassassin installed, but right now its just flagging things

[12:09:51]

wagnerrp:

no automated filtering

[12:10:31]

GreyFoxx:

spamassassin + greylisting cut out the vast majority of my spam. Anything spam assassin sees as spam goes into a folder that I clear out once a month

[12:11:08]

quicksilver:

I'm using spamassassin but not greylisting yet.

[12:11:11]

gbee:

I've a cron job running sa-learn to keep the bayes razor sharp

[12:11:13]

quicksilver:

Keep meaning to work that out.

[12:11:30]

GreyFoxx:

gbee: Cool. I rarely redo that

[12:12:23]

quicksilver:

I file stuff that makes it through the filters, but is in fact spam, into a mailbox which is fed into sa-learn

[12:12:26]

quicksilver:

that definitely helps.

[12:13:20]

gbee:

anything that didn't got to /dev/null but which was flagged as spam goes into the probable folder and sa-learn is run against it daily, if the worst happens and there is a false positive then it gets moved over to another folder and it's relearnt as ham

[12:13:26]

johnnyj:

not to change the topic – but im working with mythtv-setup and tuner cards

[12:13:56]

gbee:

and like quicksilver, anything that gets past the filters entirely is manually dropped into the spam folder for sa-learn to chew on

[12:14:19]

johnnyj:

and it seems that when I'm typing in the device Video device: field the system keeps sensing that i'm changing that field and attempting to probe the device

[12:14:20]

GreyFoxx:

I should cron that hear as well

[12:14:25]

GreyFoxx:

here even

[12:15:36]

johnnyj:

the issue i have is that the text im entering keeps getting highlighted as if selected by mouse and then when I keep typing it clears what it highlighted

[12:16:26]

johnnyj:

is anyone familiar with mythtv-setup around at the moment?

[12:16:40]

gbee:

and just to get the best out of spamassassin, pyzor, razor and dcc checks are all enabled, plus sorbs and other decent blacklists

[12:17:12]

gbee:

johnnyj: press left to deselect before typing

[12:18:00]

johnnyj:

if i press left it erases what's in that field

[12:18:09]

sphery:

johnnyj: that's a known issue

[12:18:19]

sphery:

johnnyj: fixed in recent versions

[12:18:28]

sphery:

are you current?

[12:18:44]

johnnyj:

farely – .23-fixes

[12:19:03]

sphery:

maybe only fixed in trunk

[12:19:39]

wagnerrp:

ive just not taken the time to properly set it up and train it, so i dont trust it to actually do filtering yet

[12:20:01]

sphery:

johnnyj: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/6662

[12:20:04]

sphery:

trunk only

[12:20:35]

johnnyj:

sphery: do i need to start dev'ing with trunk?

[12:20:36]

sphery:

the problem is it's inserting new garbage into the combo, and every time you type something similar to something else (including garbage), it "autoselects" the match

[12:20:46]

wagnerrp:

its so odd to see someone else editing my python pages...

[12:20:52]

sphery:

you could just apply the patch to 0.23-fixes

[12:21:09]

sphery:

think there were conflicts with the one on the ticket, but if you apply http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/23803 , you should be fine

[12:21:10]

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[12:21:37]

johnnyj:

glad i asked

[12:21:38]

johnnyj:

thanks

[12:21:39]

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[12:22:03]

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[12:22:25]

sphery:

only reason I fixed it in trunk (since it's kind of an ugly fix) is because of the new audio device selector (which made it pretty visible)

[12:22:40]

sphery:

though it would also be visible with what you're doing

[12:23:27]

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[12:24:19]

sphery:

fortunately, the bug will be thrown away with the setup code

[12:24:30]

sphery:

(or, in this case, the ugly "fix")

[12:25:28]

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[12:25:54]

iamlindoro:

http://mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-users/2010-May/288068.html

[12:25:56]

sphery:

johnnyj: oh, you'll likely need to recompile all plugins after applying that patch. Technically there's a binary version change with it, but I forgot to add that and did it in a different change a few commits later

[12:26:03]

iamlindoro:

That guy either has a hostname somewhere, or a null IP somewhere

[12:26:07]

iamlindoro:

or a hostname mismatch

[12:26:22]

iamlindoro:

oooh, or invalid host data in his videometadata fields

[12:26:33]

iamlindoro:

naughty direct DB manipulation, NAUGHTY!

[12:27:04]

sphery:

iamlindoro: or ipv6?

[12:27:17]

sphery:

isn't :0 localhost in ipv6?

[12:27:19]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: yeah, halfway though the response currently

[12:27:25]

iamlindoro:

I guess, though he claims other stuff works

[12:27:34]

wagnerrp:

sphery: no, 0 is the port

[12:27:38]

wagnerrp:

which is still wrong

[12:28:06]

iamlindoro:

Whatever it is is unable to resolve the host in the videometata record into a usable backend IP

[12:28:07]

sphery:

ah, yeah, it's ::1/128

[12:28:19]

iamlindoro:

which means the backend IP is set wrong, or the host is, or someone modified the DB data manually, or all of the above

[12:28:21]

johnnyj:

sphery: thanks for heads up on recompile – no

[12:28:40]

johnnyj:

s/no//

[12:28:41]

sphery:

is Videos the storage group?

[12:28:45]

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[12:28:52]

iamlindoro:

yes

[12:29:02]

sphery:

johnnyj: heh, I forgot once, so I should remember this time :)

[12:29:14]

iamlindoro:

That's basically a SG URI minus the IP address and with a port of 0

[12:29:18]

sphery:

ah, yeah, so no ip at all

[12:29:22]

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[12:29:23]

sphery:

I see it now

[12:29:51]

sphery:

I'll let your wagnerrp voice spread the word this time

[12:29:53]

johnnyj:

sphery: so my last issue to figure out with this dummy tuner is that i need to be treated like MPEG for tuning and like DUMMY for setup

[12:30:08]

sphery:

since he knows that far better than me (and is probably done with the message :)

[12:30:27]

iamlindoro:

Aaaaaameennnnn

[12:30:52]

johnnyj:

i'm really struggling to figure out how the configurationgroup object gets marshalled into the db entries in cardinput table

[12:31:16]

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[12:31:24]

sphery:

yeah, that's a mess

[12:31:37]

sphery:

which is why we're so looking forward to the complete rewrite of settings code

[12:33:34]

wagnerrp:

i just assumed his videometadata table was borked for unknown reasons

[12:33:48]

wagnerrp:

at which point a rescan should fix it (with new hash support)

[12:34:15]

wagnerrp:

if it goes deeper and hes actually screwed up his backend, someone else can field it, im going to lunch

[12:35:57]

sphery:

maybe he's using some wonderful bash script to populate the videos database

[12:36:23]

iamlindoro:

he's doing something wrong, that's for sure

[12:39:16]

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[12:50:15]

sphery:

lots of "Comcast just changed something" threads these days

[12:50:25]

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[12:50:25]

sphery:

Guess it's spring-cleaning time at Comcast

[12:52:08]

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[12:52:34]

iamlindoro:

Get rid of all those DVR undesirables

[12:53:20]

johnnyj:

you should have seen the looks the local techs gave my HDHR

[12:56:45]

J-e-f-f-A:

sphery: that's why I called them a different name... (replace "o" with "u")... of course that was due to 7 years of painful service from them... ;-)

[12:56:55]

johnnyj:

sphery: love this patch to settings

[12:59:37]

sphery:

johnnyj: the one that fixes the combo or the one you're doing for the dummy tuner?

[12:59:45]

sphery:

I'll love the latter more\

[12:59:58]

gbee:

johnnyj: envy, or bemusement?

[13:00:24]

johnnyj:

sphery: fixes the comboboxes

[13:00:26]

gbee:

last picture I saw of an HDHR, it wasn't a very pretty piece of kit

[13:00:50]

johnnyj:

i'll love my patch when/if someone commits it

[13:00:56]

sphery:

heh

[13:02:08]

johnnyj:

gbee: bewilderment

[13:02:40]

johnnyj:

i have my HDHR in my cable closet where it connects to the switch in my telco cabinet

[13:03:10]

johnnyj:

so there's this blue thingy attached to power, cable and a cord running into the AT&T cabinet

[13:03:38]

J-e-f-f-A:

johnnyj: Blue? Ah, you got the single-tuner one.

[13:03:38]

johnnyj:

they sorta looked at each other and shrugged

[13:03:49]

johnnyj:

I was indeed cheap

[13:04:36]

J-e-f-f-A:

johnnyj: They didn't have the single-tuner unit when I bought mine. ;-) And I like having 2 tuners.

[13:04:57]

johnnyj:

mines a backup to my HDPVR for when it's not available

[13:05:15]

johnnyj:

i wasn't aware i'd want that much clear qam

[13:05:38]

johnnyj:

OTA is not an option in Downtown Dallas

[13:15:10]

J-e-f-f-A:

johnnyj: Really? I would think you'd be able to pick up at least a few of the major networks, even with 'rabbit ears'... Unless there's too many reflections and such from tall buildings...

[13:15:27]

johnnyj:

did you check the map?

[13:20:09]

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[13:20:09]

J-e-f-f-A:

johnnyj: Well, just putting "Dallas, TX" into tvfool.com says there's tons of stuff LOS to the soutwest... ~18–21 miles away...

[13:20:33]

J-e-f-f-A:

johnnyj: and they're all Green – which says "An indoor "set-top" antenna is probably sufficient to pick up these channels"

[13:22:04]

johnnyj:

yeah – when things went digital I get artifacts with an indoor antenna

[13:22:32]

johnnyj:

and im in an apartment for the time being – so that's all she wrote

[13:22:57]

J-e-f-f-A:

johnnyj: Does your apt face the south or west? ;-)

[13:23:05]

johnnyj:

negative

[13:23:41]

johnnyj:

i do however face undeveloped land with a large stand of trees – it's quite nice

[13:24:06]

J-e-f-f-A:

johnnyj: Humm... put a 'relay' antenna up there... ;-)

[13:24:15]

johnnyj:

homes in my near radious are $600k to start

[13:24:44]

johnnyj:

but I really don't want to move to the burbs

[13:25:47]

J-e-f-f-A:

Did you try a directional antenna, inside, pointing south-east? It *might* work halfway decent, depending on what's in-between you and the south-east side of the building...

[13:26:29]

johnnyj:

i get 98% or higher signal on my HDHR on the TWC feed

[13:27:25]

J-e-f-f-A:

johnnyj: Ah, I thought they were shutting off the clear stuff on you... I guess I got mixed up with the other folks on c*mcast...

[13:27:25]

johnnyj:

looking back, I'd get the dual tuner if I knew it was gonna be so hassle free – from reading the mailing list you'd think channel scanning was a blight on humanity

[13:29:41]

johnnyj:

my view is North-West

[13:30:14]

johnnyj:

actually no – North by North East

[13:32:08]

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[13:32:12]

J-e-f-f-A:

johnnyj: Yeah, I'm foturnate enough to own a house, so I put up a roof-top antenna, and I get all the major networks via OTA.

[13:33:22]

johnnyj:

i'll join that club one day

[13:33:28]

johnnyj:

hey how did mythtv get it's name?

[13:36:02]

J-e-f-f-A:

johnnyj: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythtv

[13:37:14]

johnnyj:

oh

[13:39:58]

iamlindoro:

Of course people tend to abuse the "Myth" bit lately to try to get whatever feature it is that they want. "Ugh, if it doesn't have $thingIWant, it's not exactly a mythical media replacement, is it?"

[13:40:45]

johnnyj:

is it still a myth if y'all made it happen?

[13:41:13]

iamlindoro:

I think there is some tongue in cheek inference in the name-- it is still mythical

[13:41:31]

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[13:42:34]

johnnyj:

has there ever been a MythCon?

[13:43:30]

johnnyj:

ha – that's owned by RR Tolken fans

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[13:57:41]

cervera:

Hi, I need a bit of help...

[13:57:54]

cervera:

i've been playing around with a new installation of mythtv, and now my frontend crashes on startup

[13:58:05]

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[13:58:08]

cervera:

how can i get a crash log?

[13:58:18]

johnnyj:

what distro?

[13:58:27]

cervera:

mythbuntu

[13:58:35]

iamlindoro:

Update to auto-builds

[13:58:39]

cervera:

latest (10.4)

[13:58:48]

iamlindoro:

latest distro, not latest packages

[13:58:54]

johnnyj:

it's at /var/log/mythtv

[13:58:58]

iamlindoro:

http://www.mythbuntu.org/auto-builds

[13:59:13]

iamlindoro:

install package, select .23 when prompted, apt-get update, apt-get dist-upgrade, done

[14:00:58]

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[14:04:55]

J-e-f-f-A:

j-rod: if you're around – how's the firewire situation looking – still a fair amount available, or are you using the HD-PVR more now?

[14:08:38]

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[14:17:18]

j-rod:

J-e-f-f-A: looks like I still get plenty over firewire

[14:17:57]

J-e-f-f-A:

j-rod: Nice. Maybe I'll just buy one HD-PVR for now then... ;-)

[14:18:22]

drindt:

how can i manually fix this http://pastebin.com/fYFD0mLU ?

[14:20:01]

gbee:

the DB entry shouldn't be removed if we couldn't delete the file, so simply delete from mythweb or the Watch Recordings screen

[14:20:15]

gbee:

alternatively it should try again later when it needs the space

[14:21:19]

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[14:21:48]

drindt:

gbee: with other words i can ignore it?

[14:22:42]

gbee:

to the best of my knowledge, yes, unless it continues to fail

[14:24:04]

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[14:24:08]

pak0:

good evening

[14:24:50]

cervera:

hi again, I'm a bit lost. my frontend crashes, and after going through the log, i have no idea why

[14:24:54]

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[14:25:32]

cervera:

any ideas where i can start troubleshooting?

[14:25:43]

pak0:

http://pastebin.org/205037

[14:26:02]

pak0:

i have do it for one day alot of recordings fine, but at this time just recorded one bad

[14:26:49]

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[14:29:02]

johnnyj:

cervera – you really should update to auto-builds – many bug fixes and improvements

[14:29:34]

cervera:

sorry, johnnyj , didn't realise you mean that to me

[14:29:38]

cervera:

thanks!

[14:29:44]

cervera:

i'll try now what you said

[14:30:37]

johnnyj:

cervera: if something is really broken after that, most of us will still be here to help

[14:34:29]

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[14:58:14]

iamlindoro:

Lost of disgruntled Comcast customers selling off their gear lately

[14:59:29]

wagnerrp:

gbee: the HDHR may not be particularly 'pretty', but its surprisingly tiny

[14:59:44]

wagnerrp:

the images on their site make it look a lot bigger than it really is

[15:00:14]

gbee:

wagnerrp: interesting, yeah the pictures don't make it seem very small at all

[15:01:08]

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[15:01:14]

Nidhoegger:

hi, ive got problems with a analog/DVB-T hybrid receiver. are there any known issues that you only get the DVB-T part to work? Greetz

[15:01:38]

gbee:

and when I said it wasn't pretty, that's not a criticism, it doesn't need to be pretty if it's buried in a cupboard or loft

[15:01:59]

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[15:01:59]

wagnerrp:

right, ive got mine velcro'd to an AC duct in my basement

[15:02:23]

wagnerrp:

its maybe a little longer than a 3.5" hard drive

[15:02:33]

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[15:02:56]

gbee:

Nidhoegger: some known problems with one of the Hauppauge HVR series, the 1800 or something?

[15:03:16]

iamlindoro:

That said, the 1800 isn't a hybrid

[15:03:24]

gbee:

wagnerrp: ok, that's quite a bit smaller than I imagined

[15:03:32]

Nidhoegger:

no gbee

[15:03:36]

wagnerrp:

are you sure the analog half of your tuner card is even supported?

[15:03:44]

Nidhoegger:

its a Phillips receiver based on the saa7134 driver

[15:03:59]

Nidhoegger:

wagnerrp, its reckognized by video4linux2

[15:04:12]

Nidhoegger:

mythtv detects two cards

[15:04:17]

Nidhoegger:

or two receivers

[15:05:10]

gbee:

I'd probably quite like a couple of HDHRs, although the price vs a DVB-T PCI card doesn't make it an easy choice

[15:07:34]

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[15:07:55]

wagnerrp:

well the cheapest you can usually find ATSC tuners over here retail is $40-$45, so the $120-$130 for a HDHR is a bit easier to stomach

[15:09:39]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: why run 0.23 when everything has been backported to 0.22 anyway

[15:10:04]

iamlindoro:

heh

[15:10:24]

wagnerrp:

i wonder what this 'special package' hes talking about is...

[15:10:52]

gbee:

is jya still backporting everything?

[15:11:10]

wagnerrp:

is mythbox shipped with xbmc now?

[15:12:13]

Nidhoegger:

has 0.23 another API for adding movie-metadata? my own script doesnt work anymore

[15:12:44]

wagnerrp:

Nidhoegger: yes, the mythvideo database has changed between 0.22 and 0.23

[15:12:58]

Nidhoegger:

ah okay

[15:13:04]

wagnerrp:

if you are adding your own entries into the database for 0.23, and have not updated your script to match the new format, they will be broken

[15:13:20]

wagnerrp:

thats why we implement schema checks

[15:13:21]

Nidhoegger:

the script didnt write directly in the database

[15:13:30]

Nidhoegger:

it was run by mythtv and gave the results over command line

[15:13:35]

Nidhoegger:

over cout

[15:13:44]

wagnerrp:

oh, you wrote your own grabber

[15:14:15]

wagnerrp:

see http://mythtv.org/wiki/MythVideo_Grabber_Script_Format

[15:14:50]

Nidhoegger:

thanks (sorry for my english btw)

[15:15:34]

wagnerrp:

basically, 0.23 now has a standardized and well documented metadata format, when it did not in the past

[15:16:44]

Nidhoegger:

hmmm. but i think ill rewrite my script. ive done some stuff with MySQL the last few month, so i could inject the data directly

[15:16:49]

Nidhoegger:

is there a documentation about it?

[15:17:23]

wagnerrp:

better you didnt

[15:17:24]

iamlindoro:

Please please please do not bedoing your own DB access

[15:17:44]

Nidhoegger:

why not iamlindoro?

[15:17:47]

wagnerrp:

if you must access the database directly, the python bindings abstract access away from you

[15:17:55]

wagnerrp:

and do their best to make sure you dont break things

[15:17:56]

iamlindoro:

Because it's an excellent way to demolish your DB

[15:18:03]

Nidhoegger:

or exists any API that allows me to do it?

[15:18:21]

wagnerrp:

if you want to write your own grabber, just use the above format and call it from within mythvideo

[15:18:36]

wagnerrp:

there should be no need to access the database on your own

[15:18:47]

Nidhoegger:

i want to automize it so it gets called over a cronjob

[15:20:00]

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[15:20:06]

iamlindoro:

Then use the python bindings

[15:20:34]

Nidhoegger:

arent there any C bindings?

[15:21:06]

cervera:

johnnyj : why oh why didn't i think of checking updates

[15:21:11]

cervera:

worked like a charm!

[15:21:31]

johnnyj:

glad to hear it!

[15:21:43]

cervera:

one question in mind, why aren't the updates enableds by default?

[15:22:00]

cervera:

enabled

[15:22:10]

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[15:23:45]

wagnerrp:

Nidhoegger: normally JAMU is recommended for use with automated metadata grabbing

[15:23:59]

johnnyj:

cervera: i'm not an expert on how Ubuntu distro's are released and packaged – sorry

[15:24:05]

wagnerrp:

but it uses its own internal versions of the grabbers, and will not use 3rd party ones

[15:24:28]

Nidhoegger:

thats the problem

[15:24:40]

wagnerrp:

if you write a suitable grabber for mythvideo, this script will allow you to use it... http://mythtv.org/wiki/Myth_video_scan.py

[15:24:47]

Nidhoegger:

and bevore i reconfigure and reprogramm parts of jamu i can write my own grabber in a language that i know

[15:25:05]

wagnerrp:

it will use whatever grabber you define for use with movies on that host

[15:25:26]

johnnyj:

i'll bite – Nidhoegger – which language do you know?

[15:25:44]

Nidhoegger:

C, pascal, PHP

[15:26:03]

Nidhoegger:

and some other ones, but they are not of use in that case

[15:26:17]

wagnerrp:

speaking of which, i still need to update that script to handle images

[15:26:36]

wagnerrp:

it was really just something i threw together to demo a couple classes and methods in the new python bindings

[15:31:59]

dfletcher:

ah nice example. /me updates his script with some goodies from here

[15:33:52]

gbee:

there is no requirement that a mythvideo grabber script/app be written in any particular language, so long as it can be executed

[15:33:59]

gbee:

C would be fine

[15:34:19]

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[15:34:58]

gbee:

certainly less hassle than python and perl with their legion of modules which are guaranteed never to be installed when you need them

[15:35:23]

dfletcher:

so you trade module hell for dll hell :P

[15:35:26]

wagnerrp:

perl, sure

[15:35:36]

wagnerrp:

but python comes with a fairly complete package on install

[15:35:44]

dfletcher:

heh. batteries included ;)

[15:35:58]

gbee:

wagnerrp: with ubuntu perhaps

[15:36:13]

wagnerrp:

assuming the packager hasnt done something foolish and disabled all those first party packages so you can install them separately

[15:36:41]

gbee:

dfletcher: all depends, a grabber wouldn't necessarily need many external deps and probably nothing which isn't part of the STD libs and available on every system

[15:36:43]

johnnyj:

wagnerrp java has a fairly complete install

[15:37:17]

dfletcher:

gbee, ok then why on earth would Python suddenly have more requirements than that?

[15:37:34]

Nidhoegger:

are themes written for 0.21 compatible with 0.23?

[15:37:40]

wagnerrp:

no

[15:38:01]

Nidhoegger:

:(

[15:38:06]

gbee:

but it's java ... so what points it makes up in that respect isn't enough to drag the overall score into positive numbers

[15:38:11]

Nidhoegger:

i need some 4:3 themes and seek for downloads

[15:38:56]

gbee:

dfletcher: based on my experience of the python scripts in mythtv it does, modules for all sorts of things vs standard core libs

[15:38:59]

wagnerrp:

Nidhoegger: all you get is the fairly stock MythCenter, and Childish from the recent theming contest

[15:39:31]

johnnyj:

is anyone here good with the QT string package?

[15:39:32]

Nidhoegger:

:( why arent there any other 4:3 themes?

[15:40:32]

mag0o:

b/c 4:3 tv's are a dying breed

[15:40:46]

johnnyj:

if I say QString("file:%1"),arg(otherQString); – why is my result null ?

[15:40:52]

Nidhoegger:

yeah, but not the 4:3 beamer :(

[15:40:55]

wagnerrp:

gbee: a quick check through tmdb.py and i dont see any import that are not in the standard python install

[15:40:59]

mag0o:

i only did Childish for the kids (they're normally the ones that get the hand-me-down old tv) :)

[15:41:00]

Nidhoegger:

on 0.22 i got plenty of 4:3 themes

[15:41:14]

gbee:

johnnyj: . not ,

[15:41:30]

johnnyj:

gbee: sorry it is a .

[15:41:34]

johnnyj:

and it's still not working

[15:41:45]

johnnyj:

i need to install synergy

[15:42:22]

johnnyj:

does the : in front of %1 cause trouble?

[15:42:25]

gbee:

QString foo = QString("file:%1").arg(otherString);

[15:42:29]

gbee:

foo is empty?

[15:42:30]

mag0o:

Nidhoegger: the theme documentation is pretty good if you want to give themeing a shot, you could even use Childish as a base to get started

[15:42:37]

dfletcher:

gbee, uh ok well the python bindings just work for me. haven't had a prob yet :P

[15:42:43]

gbee:

johnnyj: shouldn't cause a problem

[15:42:49]

Nidhoegger:

i am pretty poor in graphics design...:( otherwise i would try

[15:43:08]

dfletcher:

because wagnerrp did such an excellent job with them :P

[15:43:20]

gbee:

wagnerrp: can't possibly comment on individual scripts since I just don't remember which additional modules I had to install

[15:43:48]

Nidhoegger:

can i somehow convert a 4:3 theme for 0.22 for use with 0.23?

[15:43:56]

mag0o:

Nidhoegger: no graphics required, i'm making a theme now that has next to zero images

[15:44:03]

mag0o:

Nidhoegger: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MythUI_Theme_Development

[15:44:04]

wagnerrp:

gbee: the only two external dependencies in the python bindings currently are the MySQLdb bindings, and lxml

[15:44:37]

gbee:

looking at the list of installed packages I'd guess the following were among them – python-curl, python-feedparser, python-lxml, python-mysql

[15:44:39]

dfletcher:

that seems pretty reasonable really. I mean, it's myth, we need those things ;)

[15:44:59]

Nidhoegger:

thats too much for me mag0o, i am studying and dont have the time :( otherwise i would try

[15:45:00]

wagnerrp:

curl and feedparser may be two things RDV needs for the MNV stuff

[15:45:02]

gbee:

but that might include scripts which are no longer in trunk or the stuff I was testing for RDV_Linux e.g. the iplayer script

[15:46:54]

wagnerrp:

seems ive got pycurl in for vimeo, but didnt that get dropped?

[15:48:26]

gbee:

anyway, my point isn't to argue over whether these are required or the need for them, I was merely commenting that there is nothing wrong with a grabber written in C and that it _might_ even have an advantage or two

[15:48:35]

RDV_Linux:

wagnerrp: I got rid of feedparser a while ago but curl is used in Vimeo

[15:48:40]

wagnerrp:

no, certainly not

[15:48:55]

wagnerrp:

gbee: its all what youre comfortable with programming in

[15:49:04]

gbee:

wagnerrp: exactly

[15:49:16]

wagnerrp:

RDV_Linux: i thought vimeo got dropped a couple weeks ago though

[15:49:31]

wagnerrp:

i know one of them was

[15:50:37]

RDV_Linux:

gbee: iPlayer does not use either feedparser or curl. I use the lxml library. No vimeo did not get dropped it was joost

[15:50:38]

gbee:

btw, would one of the python devs mind going through and making a list of what's needed so it can be added to the dependancies list if they are not already there?

[15:51:06]

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[15:51:14]

wagnerrp:

in the bindings, the only thing needed is the mysqldb package, and that should have always been needed

[15:51:24]

wagnerrp:

trunk also requires the lxml library for the wikiscripts stuff

[15:51:42]

wagnerrp:

but that can be considered independent and optional

[15:51:54]

wagnerrp:

it wont affect the operation of the rest of the bindings if that stuff isnt functioning

[15:53:36]

RDV_Linux:

gbee: Is your request about a dependency list for all python scripts? The dependencies are at least for mine are on their wiki page.

[15:54:12]

wagnerrp:

and for now, py2.5 is considered the minimum supported

[15:55:43]

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[15:58:02]

wagnerrp:

huh, i guess i did add image support to that script on the wiki

[15:58:07]

wagnerrp:

go figure

[16:02:11]

gbee:

RDV_Linux: for anything that's in trunk and therefore part of the official packages, it's not always obvious to packagers and users building from source that the need those perl/python modules and it can be a frustrating experience trying to find out why something is quietly failing

[16:03:06]

RDV_Linux:

gbee: Ok I will combine a list relevant to all my contributions. Are you the one I submit it to?

[16:03:50]

gbee:

may as well be me

[16:04:35]

RDV_Linux:

gbee: Ok in a week or so,

[16:04:47]

gbee:

no hurry

[16:04:55]

RDV_Linux:

thanks

[16:06:02]

gbee:

I'll take the opportunity to review the dependancies of the compiled apps since the list is probably out of date

[16:07:47]

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[16:08:23]

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[16:10:03]

stevieman:

If you were going to build a frontend mythbox what hardware would you use? (small form factor is fine)

[16:11:29]

johnnyj:

acer revo

[16:12:03]

wagnerrp:

a microatx amd/nvidia board, dual core athlon64 (not phenom), 2GB of memory

[16:12:19]

wagnerrp:

or maybe one of those zotac mini-itx boards

[16:13:44]

beata-:

alsa hates me

[16:13:52]

stevieman:

that acer revo is pretty nice looking

[16:14:04]

gbee:

beata-: it hates everyone

[16:14:48]

johnnyj:

alsa + revo + mythbuntu + hdmi "just works"

[16:14:49]

stevieman:

wagnerrp: That's a pretty pwerful machine for a front end... You need the power for HD?

[16:15:08]

stevieman:

HDMI? it's not so cute now :)

[16:15:29]

johnnyj:

it's also got vga

[16:15:36]

johnnyj:

er dsub

[16:15:36]

beata-:

i can get sound, but not 5.1 sound. i have spdif going into my a/v setup

[16:15:37]

gbee:

stevieman: if a DVD drive isn't important, just be warned that the shine is rubbing off the ION based machines as people realise just how underpowered they really are and that you are at the mercy of the nvidia drivers

[16:16:51]

stevieman:

yah, now that you mention it DVD might be good to have.

[16:17:51]

stevieman:

ok how about this, what would you recommed CPU/memory wise for a machine to do SD video, some mame, play dvd and of course watch TV?

[16:18:07]

gbee:

before the hype over ION kit, there were similar levels of hype over low power Via based machines, but a few months later there were lots of people with buyers remorse

[16:18:30]

johnnyj:

i love my revo

[16:18:42]

johnnyj:

1080 works great

[16:19:22]

johnnyj:

i do have to transcode my outside media from divx (if i have any) to x264 but once I figured that out I was golden

[16:21:02]

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[16:23:23]

gbee:

johnnyj: I like the look of them and if I ever need another frontend I'd definitely give it consideration, but I do feel the need to point out that history may repeat itself and not everyone who has bought the Atom+ION machines is 100% happy

[16:24:06]

johnnyj:

i can only speak for me and mine

[16:26:00]

mag0o:

so far nothing but goodness from my revo

[16:26:55]

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[16:27:42]

johnnyj:

gbee: and there's some good tricks you can pull – like when I compile code on the revo I mount the FS on my BE so I can use the Triple core power

[16:28:02]

johnnyj:

a trick the devs here suggested

[16:28:44]

** j-rod just does package builds on a beefy box and installs the packages everywhere **

[16:28:46]

gbee:

I have a first gen Acer Aspire, and it's everything I need it to be, but there's no question that current gen kit is so much more capable – I wasn't intending to use it as a replacement for my laptop or desktop so I'm happy, but others who bought it weren't :)

[16:29:11]

j-rod:

I dumped my aspire one.

[16:29:18]

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[16:29:40]

j-rod:

fun toy for a bit

[16:29:42]

mag0o:

i got mine for $170 from amazon (refurb) specifically for hdmi 1080 output with mythtv, and it does just that

[16:30:09]

j-rod:

I like my latest new toy much better than a netbook

[16:30:30]

gbee:

j-rod: mine doesn't come off the shelf much, but I'm glad to have it when it does

[16:30:47]

johnnyj:

j-rod – whats your newest?

[16:30:52]

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[16:31:16]

gbee:

not to say that I wouldn't take an upgrade if someone offered me one

[16:32:38]

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[16:32:55]

j-rod:

I got an iPad

[16:32:57]

cervera:

Hi again,

[16:33:02]

cervera:

Question #2

[16:33:04]

j-rod:

its made of awesomeness

[16:33:05]

gbee:

when I decide I don't want it anymore, then I'll buy a touchscreen film and turn it into a portable touchscreen frontend for use in the garden or similar

[16:33:41]

cervera:

how do i configure IRblaster?

[16:33:50]

j-rod:

I have three other real laptops that are all much nicer to use than a netbook

[16:33:53]

cervera:

i'm using microsoft remote

[16:34:02]

cervera:

(came with pvr-150)

[16:34:07]

johnnyj:

i have that one

[16:34:15]

johnnyj:

it's well supported in mythbuntu

[16:34:23]

johnnyj:

cervera ^^

[16:34:24]

cervera:

that's why i bought it

[16:34:26]

gbee:

j-rod: heh, now there's something I can't see myself buying, another tablet modelled on the design maybe but I'd want an open platform

[16:34:27]

cervera:

:P

[16:35:03]

johnnyj:

gbee: that can be done, from what i've understood

[16:35:45]

j-rod:

can be done vs. someone actually doing it and doing it well is two very different things though

[16:35:47]

cervera:

now, I'm trying to control my SAT box from the IR transmitter

[16:35:53]

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[16:35:54]

gbee:

johnnyj: only if you're interested in screwing around, I don't have the time for that nor can I afford to see it bricked by Apple when they force out a new firmware

[16:36:01]

johnnyj:

j-rod: i had my other half talked into the iPad but then the mind got changed

[16:36:18]

j-rod:

my wife is actually the primary user of it

[16:36:24]

j-rod:

followed by my son

[16:36:28]

gbee:

and if Apple can disable hacked ipads/iphones, them believe that they will

[16:36:37]

j-rod:

I only get to play with it a little bit now and then in the evening sometimes

[16:36:37]

gbee:

s/them/then/

[16:36:48]

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[16:37:04]

johnnyj:

j-rod: i think it's pure cost that's driving the waf down over here

[16:37:14]

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[16:37:18]

j-rod:

heh. I bought the 64G 3G model...

[16:37:26]

johnnyj:

j-rod: nice

[16:37:43]

johnnyj:

cervera – is there a myth control centre on your system?

[16:37:56]

johnnyj:

and then an IR tab ?

[16:38:00]

j-rod:

not cheap, but you can't upgrade the storage on these (not easily, that I'm aware of, anyway)

[16:38:06]

cervera:

yeah, got there

[16:38:09]

j-rod:

and can't add 3G and/or GPS after the fact

[16:38:21]

johnnyj:

j-rod – that's that remote called again ?

[16:38:21]

cervera:

johnnyj: conigured it there

[16:38:29]

j-rod:

mceusb ?

[16:38:47]

johnnyj:

cervera – so what's not working ?

[16:39:47]

cervera:

johnnyj: the remote's working great. but IRblaster, i don't really know how to configure mythtv to change channel on my satterlite box

[16:40:02]

johnnyj:

oh – ok

[16:40:06]

cervera:

lol

[16:40:10]

johnnyj:

what's your make and model ?

[16:40:26]

cervera:

the blaster?

[16:40:29]

cervera:

or box?

[16:40:30]

johnnyj:

the stb ?

[16:40:35]

johnnyj:

set top box

[16:41:02]

cervera:

johnnyj: thomson i think, lemme check

[16:41:21]

cervera:

it's designed for the local sattelite operator in Israel

[16:42:18]

cervera:

is there a way to "record" the STB remote?

[16:42:36]

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[16:42:40]

johnnyj:

http://lirc.sourceforge.net/remotes/thomson/

[16:42:47]

johnnyj:

there's already many of them

[16:43:00]

johnnyj:

you'll need to figure out which is yours

[16:43:17]

johnnyj:

maybe the list will make finding the model on your box easier

[16:44:47]

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[16:46:36]

cervera:

thanks, i'm trying it now

[16:48:58]

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[16:54:24]

pak0:

http://pastebin.org/205037

[16:54:30]

johnnyj:

i see why multiple inheritance is a pain

[16:59:50]

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[17:13:17]

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[17:13:27]

justinh:

ooo dear. can't be running a web server on my backend.. at least not with wordpress anyway. just not enough oomph

[17:13:37]

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[17:14:54]

dustybin:

justinh: if you use a decent cache plugin it should be ok

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[17:27:09]

justinh:

ahh like one of the static page generator thingies

[17:27:56]

wagnerrp:

i just saw something interesting

[17:28:05]

cervera:

johnnyj: you still here?

[17:28:14]

johnnyj:

cervera – yep

[17:28:17]

wagnerrp:

normally you see people painting stuff on their cars like 'state champions', or 'graduates', or 'class of 20whatever'

[17:28:24]

cervera:

okay, found the right file

[17:28:43]

wagnerrp:

but i just passed someone who had written 'LAN <heart> LINDS BOOBS'

[17:28:43]

cervera:

how do i update lirc

[17:28:54]

cervera:

to recognize the file?

[17:28:55]

wagnerrp:

big caps, covering their entire rear windshield

[17:29:26]

johnnyj:

the mythcontrol centre 's IR tab should allow you to select a 2nd conf file for the blaster

[17:29:36]

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[17:29:49]

cervera:

this is the conf file http://lirc.sourceforge.net/remotes/yes/URC-39765_B00

[17:30:23]

cervera:

i guess i put it under /usr/share/lirc/remotes/yes but how do i make lirc recognise the file?

[17:30:40]

johnnyj:

wait – is that the remote for you STB ?

[17:30:44]

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[17:30:56]

cervera:

yeah, it's not thomson, cot confused with an older stb

[17:30:59]

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[17:33:03]

johnnyj:

cervera – I confirmed that's not in my ubuntu packaged lirc

[17:33:48]

wagnerrp:

j-rod: i saw some report that said netbook sales have plummeted with the release of the ipad

[17:33:49]

johnnyj:

so you can add it anywhere but I prefer /etc/lirc/my-stb.conf or something like that

[17:33:51]

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[17:34:12]

johnnyj:

wagnerrp: come on sales!

[17:35:13]

johnnyj:

cervera – once it's on your filesystem somewhere you must update /etc/lirc/hardware.conf to point at it

[17:35:34]

johnnyj:

cervera – under TRANSMITTER

[17:35:39]

cervera:

manually though gedit?

[17:36:19]

johnnyj:

cervera – or any other editor you can manager – mine is like this:

[17:36:21]

johnnyj:

TRANSMITTER_LIRCD_CONF="/etc/lirc/transmit.conf"

[17:37:07]

** johnnyj feels conspicuous helping with lirc when j-rod is around **

[17:37:08]

cervera:

johnnyj: right. I'll do that. GTG, thanks again!

[17:37:29]

cervera:

teehee

[17:37:42]

cervera:

okay, tomorrow i'll ask j-rod ;)

[17:37:46]

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[17:38:08]

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[17:38:13]

wagnerrp:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=9250545

[17:38:45]

johnnyj:

odd

[17:38:52]

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[17:40:46]

johnnyj:

hey in this declaration – void MPEGConfigurationGroup::probeCard(const QString &device) – what does the const and &device accomplish?

[17:40:52]

johnnyj:

i'm having some scope issues

[17:42:45]

wagnerrp:

const means you can perform some additional optimizations as the value is to be read-only

[17:42:51]

beata-:

using ubuntu 10.04 removed pulseaudio. sound is conected via spdif to av reciver in general->sound settings i have audio output to ALSA:SPDIF, speaker config 5.1 . I get no sound if I play ac3 video. If i play a non hd video i get sound. Any sugestions?

[17:43:04]

johnnyj:

but so why the &

[17:43:05]

wagnerrp:

& means youre giving it the address of that value, rather than pushing the value itself onto the stack

[17:43:50]

johnnyj:

so does this mean that device is getting passed in and can be updated within this function??

[17:44:06]

wagnerrp:

its a const, it cannot be modified

[17:47:02]

johnnyj:

oh – so this is actually a compiler trick

[17:47:14]

johnnyj:

according to http://duramecho.com/ComputerInformation/WhyHowCppConst.html

[17:47:24]

wagnerrp:

no, just the C/C++ programming language

[17:52:12]

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[17:52:44]

gbee:

johnnyj: &, or passing by references means that you pass the address instead of creating a copy – this is more efficient, creating a second copy means more memory and several additional steps

[17:53:41]

johnnyj:

gbee: i get that – it's the const in front of it that is confusing

[17:54:08]

johnnyj:

plus it's a VideoDevice object in the calling class and a QString here

[17:54:56]

gbee:

the const says that it can't be modified, since we're passing by reference we want to guarentee that the original remains unchanged and at the same time the compiler can do some optimisations knowing that it won't be modified

[17:55:44]

justinh:

heh I remember this conversation ;)

[17:55:57]

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[17:56:22]

justinh:

it's still all black magic & witchcraft as far as I'm concerned

[17:56:25]

johnnyj:

gbee – the thing is, i'd really like to change it – I want to tack file:/ on the front of it the probe succeeds

[17:56:41]

johnnyj:

so folks dont have to enter file:/

[17:57:25]

gbee:

then remove the const

[17:58:12]

johnnyj:

so is this again multiple inheritance? which object type is this thing?

[17:58:19]

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[17:58:53]

th1_:

hi, has anyone gotten mythtv 0.23 working on Debian lenny?

[17:58:56]

** gbee has a headache **

[17:58:59]

johnnyj:

i removed the const and it complains on compile that there is no matching method

[17:59:17]

gbee:

johnnyj: you need to remove the const from both the h and cpp

[17:59:36]

johnnyj:

right – and I suppose the & too

[17:59:41]

bjd:

th1_: whats the real issue?

[18:00:22]

gbee:

johnnyj: no, you _want_ to pass by reference, unless you'd just be modifiying a local copy instead of the original

[18:00:26]

johnnyj:

it's no matching matching function for call yadda::probeCard(qstring) – candidates are yadda:probecard(QString&)

[18:00:32]

gbee:

th1_: packages or source?

[18:00:56]

gbee:

the Debian packages are pretty broken AFAIK

[18:02:00]

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Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v stuarta

[18:07:34]

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[18:09:01]

th1_:

gbee + bjd, I was hoping for packages but I haven't found any, I thought that might be an indication there would be issues but I'm building now and so far it seems all the dependencies are met from the backports repo

[18:09:33]

th1_:

the reason is my server infrastructure all run on debian but I've upgraded my desktops to ububtu 10.04 and they have Myth 0.23RC

[18:09:55]

th1_:

I wish the Myth backend was more lightweight and separate from the frontend

[18:10:15]

gbee:

huh?

[18:10:24]

** bjd blinks **

[18:10:33]

th1_:

well the backends have full GUI stuff

[18:10:42]

gbee:

nuh-uh

[18:11:02]

johnnyj:

maybe if you can glance at the code – http://pastebin.com/bjND9ZH3 &ndash ; I'm just not following why this wont compile

[18:11:52]

th1_:

gbee, if you compare it to a webserver and a browser

[18:12:35]

th1_:

it doesn't seem like it's going to be a huge problem though because all the dependencies are already on debian from 0.22

[18:12:49]

th1_:

just have to compile from source :)

[18:13:05]

gbee:

th1_: I haven't got a clue what you are talking about, there is no UI code in the backend

[18:13:21]

gbee:

none

[18:13:37]

th1_:

gbee, I'm talking building a standalone backend without QT etc.

[18:13:43]

stuarta:

you can't

[18:13:46]

th1_:

I'm pretty sure that's not possible

[18:13:46]

gbee:

oh not this crap again

[18:13:55]

stuarta:

QT isn't just a graphics toolkit

[18:14:02]

gbee:

QT is NOT just a UI toolkit

[18:14:03]

gbee:

FFS

[18:14:09]

stuarta:

it's primarily an STL toolkit

[18:14:24]

th1_:

mythtv-setup runs on the backend though and it requires lots of gui elements

[18:14:32]

stuarta:

yes

[18:14:39]

stuarta:

mythtv-setup != mythbackend

[18:14:40]

th1_:

and qt requires a full X libs setup to build and run even if its not *just* a UI library

[18:14:48]

gbee:

and even the bits of it that are UI related, they are hardly used by myth, frontend OR backend

[18:14:59]

th1_:

but can you run mythtv-setup on a frontend and use it to configure a backend on another machine?

[18:15:16]

stuarta:

with X forwarding over ssh, yes

[18:15:34]

th1_:

but in that case the gui binary is still running on the server and needing the X libs etc.

[18:15:39]

stuarta:

yup

[18:15:55]

stuarta:

if you want something different, wait for mythtv 0.26

[18:15:56]

gbee:

where does this FUD come from ...

[18:15:59]

th1_:

I'm just saying it causes some practical problems sometimes

[18:16:06]

gbee:

seriously.

[18:16:07]

stuarta:

no it doesn't

[18:16:33]

th1_:

its not like I'm not a huge mythtv fan or something just because of that ;) I've used it for 5–6 years

[18:16:51]

johnnyj:

hey I gotta run – thanks though

[18:16:55]

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[18:17:50]

th1_:

stuarta, it does when e.g. I have to build an i386 version of the whole backend on my slow dvb-s backend for example

[18:18:11]

** stuarta shrugs **

[18:18:15]

stuarta:

i've one of those 2

[18:18:23]

stuarta:

just takes a while to build myth

[18:18:31]

stuarta:

for the rest i just install the packages

[18:18:34]

th1_:

yeah

[18:18:50]

th1_:

and like I said it's not like I don't like myth because of it ;)

[18:18:52]

stuarta:

by packages i mean all the mythtv build-essentials

[18:18:55]

th1_:

and I understand how it's evolved like that

[18:19:08]

th1_:

yeah

[18:19:37]

th1_:

I guess it could be considered more of a qt issue

[18:19:49]

stuarta:

it's something we are planning to work on for future versions, but it'll take a while to come to fruition

[18:19:49]

th1_:

that qt ought to be split in a ui and a generic part

[18:19:58]

th1_:

I understand

[18:20:01]

stuarta:

QT4 has been

[18:20:09]

stuarta:

qt3 was fairly monolithic

[18:20:26]

stuarta:

qt4 has been split down into much smaller libs

[18:20:32]

th1_:

nice

[18:20:47]

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[18:20:59]

th1_:

well build succeeded for my x86_64 8-cpu server backend :)

[18:21:06]

th1_:

I guess I'll run the 32-bit build in a chroot on that

[18:21:39]

th1_:

instead of my 2-core Pentium 2 1GHz backend ;)

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[18:23:39]

sid3windr:

how did you manage to overclock a p2 to 3 times its speed and run it in SMP? :o

[18:24:23]

th1_:

sid3windr, sorry just checked its cpuinfo, it's a dual "Pentium III (Coppermine)"

[18:24:52]

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[18:24:56]

th1_:

took it from an old 1U server because it had plenty of PCI slots for my DVB-S2 cards

[18:25:41]

stuarta:

p4 2.4ghz

[18:26:25]

th1_:

My main server has 2 AMD Opteron 2376 HE 2.30 GHz quadcores

[18:26:46]

** stuarta gets core envy **

[18:27:09]

th1_:

its nice for running multiple transcode jobs simultaneously ;)

[18:27:14]

th1_:

and/or building mythtv from source

[18:27:18]

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[18:27:48]

th1_:

I convert all my MP2 DVB into mpeg4

[18:28:04]

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[18:28:45]

th1_:

my system has 5 tuners (3*dvb-t and 2*dvb-s2) in 2 backends and 4.5TB RAID5 storage

[18:29:05]

th1_:

(5*1.5TB disks)

[18:30:34]

th1_:

when it gets summer I'll go on the roof and swap the dual lnbs with quads and add another 2 dvb-s2 tuners

[18:31:45]

bjd:

wtf for?

[18:32:17]

th1_:

because most of the channels I watch/record are from the dish not the DVB-T, so sometimes I get tuner shortage

[18:32:55]

th1_:

e.g. if I'm watching live news and it wants to record 2 shows

[18:33:21]

th1_:

or if kitchen frontend is watching something other than the main frontend

[18:34:01]

th1_:

or my netbook once I get it working again (netbook has latest ubuntu with 0.23 so hence my need to upgrade the backends)

[18:39:31]

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[18:40:17]

th1_:

here goes nothing.. dump mythdb and install my built version instead of the debian packaged one..

[18:40:28]

jst:

Anyone want to recommend a cheap VFD?

[18:42:09]

th1_:

jst no but if you find one that looks cool and works well with linux I'd like to know :)

[18:42:55]

jst:

th1_, I've seen some like here: http://www.matrixorbital.ca/products/ ... but they're all ~$70+

[18:43:59]

th1_:

consider an LCD one they are muych cheaper

[18:44:04]

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[18:44:50]

th1_:

I think they are driven mostly like LCD's

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[19:01:08]

th1_:

hm

[19:01:39]

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[19:01:52]

th1_:

I've just installed mythtv 0.23rc3 but when I run mythtv-setup or mythfrontend all the text is like 1x1 pixel characters

[19:02:25]

janneg:

old libs or themes laying around

[19:02:38]

achew22:

From what I've seen on MythNetvision, the plugin provides its own interface to play shows that come from network sources.. Are there any plans to have these be imported into Myth's recorded program list at some point?

[19:03:13]

th1_:

janneg, I've aptitude remove'd mythtv-backend from the machine where would those files be lying around?

[19:03:55]

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[19:08:31]

th1_:

I've even dpkg --purge'd them now and still the mythtv-setup screen has its menu in 1x1 pixel characters

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[19:10:11]

janneg:

th1_: which theme? try another theme with -O Theme=...

[19:11:12]

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[19:11:17]

th1_:

janneg, it's the default one since it doesn't even have a db config

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[19:13:32]

th1_:

I tried with -O Theme=DVR and it's no different, even the same colours. where does it look for the theme files? I've installed it in /usr/local

[19:13:48]

janneg:

th1_: try -O Theme=MythCenter-wide

[19:14:11]

janneg:

you're probably missing mscorefonts

[19:14:48]

th1_:

janneg, 2010-05–07 00:14:05.834 Could not find theme: – Switching to Terra

[19:15:09]

wagnerrp:

th1_: 'DVR' is a menu theme, not a UI theme

[19:15:16]

th1_:

ok

[19:15:40]

th1_:

I just looked in /usr/local/share/mythtv/themes

[19:15:53]

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[19:16:16]

th1_:

janneg, this is when I run "mythtv-setup -O Theme=MythCenter-wide"

[19:16:20]

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[19:21:49]

wagnerrp:

achew22: no

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[19:31:08]

th1_:

i'm trying to build it now again using the debian port from unstable

[19:31:15]

th1_:

might just do the trick ;)

[19:32:28]

gbee:

glad you called it a port, since that's what it is

[19:32:42]

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[19:35:34]

sphery:

th1_: please pastebin the output of: xdpyinfo | grep -B 2 resolution

[19:36:54]

** wagnerrp finds it odd that everyone he knows actively using the python bindings has a name starting with 'd' **

[19:37:14]

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[19:38:00]

bobboau:

quick easy question: what version of myth is shipped with mythbuntu 10.04?

[19:38:14]

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[19:38:37]

wagnerrp:

doug vaughan (admittedly a middle name), dougt, dfletcher.... its downright odd

[19:38:41]

wagnerrp:

bobboau: 0.23

[19:38:48]

bobboau:

thanks :)

[19:38:53]

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[19:40:18]

** wagnerrp is increasingly baffled how people who have managed to set up their own ipv6 tunnel cant figure out such simple things on their own **

[19:41:28]

wagnerrp:

you type 'mythbuntu 10.04' into google, decide your feeling lucky, and its right there on the second line, and again on the third, and then twice more about a dozen lines down

[19:42:23]

janneg:

wagnerrp: maybe google was down

[19:42:47]

wagnerrp:

i guess their ipv6 tunnel wasnt working properly

[19:43:00]

th1_:

sphery, codepad.org/HgVzqcWh

[19:43:44]

sphery:

th1_: ok, that's not it

[19:46:10]

sphery:

th1_: wanna imagebin.ca a screenshot?

[19:48:55]

th1_:

well sphery :)

[19:49:25]

th1_:

I just removed my homebrew installation and built with the debianizer patch from debian unstable

[19:49:31]

th1_:

built the deb packages and installed them

[19:49:33]

th1_:

and it works now :)

[19:49:36]

sphery:

cool

[19:49:49]

th1_:

yeah

[19:49:58]

th1_:

also cleaner

[19:50:48]

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[19:51:09]

th1_:

the patch didn't touch any of the files just added the debian/ directory so I'm guessing it'll be fine for git upgrades

[19:51:59]

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[19:53:09]

th1_:

http://codepad.org/VpDm8tlr

[19:53:18]

th1_:

now I get that instead :(

[19:57:31]

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[19:57:56]

Mandingo-Dev:

got a question about building debs for .23

[20:00:51]

Mandingo-Dev:

is it safe to pull the libmythtv-perl.install since that deb isnt used anyway

[20:03:33]

Mandingo-Dev:

never mind found my mistake confused libmythtv-perl and libmyth-perl

[20:05:50]

Mandingo-Dev:

but even so if i dont use addons i should be ok removing those correct or no ?

[20:08:07]

sphery:

th1_: best bet is to restore the DB backup from before the first upgrade attempt you made ... looks like you had a partial upgrade that got interrupted

[20:08:22]

sphery:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Database_Backup_and_Restore

[20:10:13]

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[20:23:25]

th1_:

sphery, ok, trying that now :)

[20:24:05]

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[20:24:07]

th1_:

ah thats better

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[20:29:28]

th1_:

it worked now but I get thousands of errors in the log after starting the backend like these: http://codepad.org/RiYhoJMV

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sphery:

th1_: still a broken install: 2010-05–07 01:28:11.741 Filter dir '/usr/lib/mythtv/filters' doesn't exist?

[21:01:27]

th1_:

it wasn't in any of the resulting .deb packages for backend side

[21:02:34]

th1_:

ah filters is in the frontend package ...

[21:02:43]

th1_:

better install it on my backend too ... :/

[21:03:17]

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[21:06:38]

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[21:07:15]

k-man:

i want to modify the width of the field in mythcenter, where you specify the frequency to record a show

[21:07:46]

k-man:

any idea what i should look for in schedule-ui.xml?

[21:09:29]

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[21:23:37]

Beirdo:

anyone know if the 'AVerMedia AVerTV HD DVR MTVHDDVRR' card on newegg is at all supported in Linux?

[21:27:56]

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[21:28:14]

wagnerrp:

how was your sandwich?

[21:28:28]

Beirdo:

sammich?

[21:28:34]

wsuetholz:

Hello, I'm back, still fighting to get the Foxconn NT330i stable...

[21:28:39]

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[21:28:51]

wagnerrp:

well obviously you didnt grind between two copies of Sam Malone

[21:28:56]

wagnerrp:

so not 'sammich'

[21:28:59]

wsuetholz:

Nobody responded to my email on the mythtv-users list

[21:29:00]

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[21:29:27]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: heh, I'm half drunk. I don't get ya :)

[21:29:32]

wagnerrp:

wsuetholz: instabilities such as that are typically do to hardware failure

[21:29:39]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: the cheese steak

[21:29:42]

wsuetholz:

I noticed something today, and was wondering if it could be relevant....

[21:29:46]

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[21:29:47]

Beirdo:

oooh, hehe

[21:29:49]

Beirdo:

right

[21:29:49]

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[21:29:52]

ezzieyguywuf:

ok guys. I'm on step one: partitioning my hdd. Is there a optimal partitioning setup for myth?

[21:30:04]

Beirdo:

not yet, I'm saving that for Saturday or tomorrow

[21:30:08]

wagnerrp:

'sammich' was a term coined by a Cheers character, him between two women

[21:30:27]

wagnerrp:

ezzieyguywuf: do you have multiple disks?

[21:30:29]

wsuetholz:

BIOS reports 256M video ram, and the NV-Settings reports 512M video ram.. Could that result in LiveTV always locking up?

[21:30:33]

Beirdo:

heh, yeah, been a while since I watched Cheers :)

[21:31:07]

wagnerrp:

wsuetholz: mythtv is generally not happy with only 256MB of video memory for use with VDPAU

[21:31:25]

ezzieyguywuf:

wagnerrp: at tho moment, I have ONE 80 gb disk.

[21:31:31]

wagnerrp:

is it possible you have additional system memory being allocated to the graphics chip that the BIOS is not seeing?

[21:31:41]

ezzieyguywuf:

wagnerrp: after I get myth up and running, I plan on either upgrading or just adding another, huger disk.

[21:31:55]

wsuetholz:

well, their bios doesn't let you set it. It's based on installed ram.. And, all I had available was a 2GB memory stick

[21:32:19]

wagnerrp:

ezzieyguywuf: probably best to give 10–20GB for system and database, leave the rest for mythtv

[21:32:34]

wagnerrp:

two partitions, maybe a third if you want to give boot its own

[21:32:48]

wagnerrp:

wsuetholz: usually with 2GB, the video card gets 512MB

[21:33:35]

ezzieyguywuf:

wagnerrp: I'll be installing gentoo, I don't think it needs 20 gb

[21:34:08]

ezzieyguywuf:

wagnerrp: should I make a separate partition for storing video files, and should I use a particular file system, i.e. not ext?

[21:34:15]

wsuetholz:

well, Foxconn has resisted allowing that to be and adjustable setting in their BIOS

[21:34:58]

wagnerrp:

my gentoo root image currently takes some 2.1GB

[21:35:01]

wsuetholz:

I just purchased a 4Gig stick, we'll see if that helps. My existing Zotac ION box is running fine on 2Gig of memory.

[21:35:39]

wagnerrp:

thats not including 700MB for a compiled kernel tree, 200MB for a portage tree, or several GB used in temporary space during compiles

[21:35:39]

wsuetholz:

Is there a way to tell the NVidia card that it only has 256M of memory in xorg.conf?

[21:35:55]

wagnerrp:

thats for a mythtv-only install

[21:36:17]

ezzieyguywuf:

wagnerrp: okdie doke. what about the a separate partition for video files?

[21:36:30]

Beirdo:

devinheitmueller: you around?

[21:36:47]

wagnerrp:

ezzieyguywuf: single, separate partition for video, just give it whatever you have free

[21:36:57]

wagnerrp:

i wouldnt go less than 6GB for the system partition

[21:37:11]

wagnerrp:

this is only a trial install after all

[21:37:17]

wagnerrp:

better to be safe, than run out of space later

[21:37:28]

th1_:

yay ftw

[21:37:35]

ezzieyguywuf:

wagnerrp: I'm gonna give / 10 gb, I usually put /usr on its own partition with what's left, but maybe not for myth?

[21:37:36]

th1_:

got all my machines upgraded to rc3 now

[21:38:04]

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[21:41:35]

wagnerrp:

ive always heard the opinion that mythbox/xbmc is bad, and shouldnt be used with mythtv, but what specifically is the reason?

[21:41:51]

Beirdo:

because it sucks?

[21:41:53]

Beirdo:

dunno

[21:42:11]

ezzieyguywuf:

what is mythbox?

[21:42:14]

wagnerrp:

it seems to actually follow the protocol checking, and provide its own fixups to maintain internal compatibility

[21:42:17]

ezzieyguywuf:

does myth supportt ext4?

[21:42:29]

wagnerrp:

no, mythtv does not support ext4

[21:42:35]

ezzieyguywuf:

good to know

[21:42:35]

wagnerrp:

it just uses whatever file system you give it

[21:43:03]

wagnerrp:

in the same manner, it does not support jfs, xfs, nfs, ntfs, or just about any other file system you can think of

[21:43:29]

wagnerrp:

it does however have a 'slow delete' fix for ext3, as that file system is horrible at deleting large files

[21:44:09]

wagnerrp:

can mythtv be used with ext4? certainly

[21:44:51]

ezzieyguywuf:

is it recommended?

[21:44:57]

Beirdo:

and probably with ext5 when the time comes too

[21:45:10]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: only 'bad' thing i can tell that it does is forgo any form of database schema check

[21:45:21]

wagnerrp:

so it can trash your database

[21:45:29]

wagnerrp:

but it shouldnt have problems connecting to your frontend

[21:45:33]

Wicked:

xbmc has native built in support for mythtv

[21:45:53]

wagnerrp:

Wicked: no, xbmc has native built in support for the myth:// streaming protocol

[21:46:14]

Wicked:

ah yea. thats more specific

[21:46:22]

wagnerrp:

you still have to provide it menus and links to content through a third party plugin

[21:46:31]

wagnerrp:

and that native support IS doing bad things

[21:46:38]

Wicked:

and the xbmc team is currently doing *alot* of work for the unified frontend project

[21:46:39]

wagnerrp:

it outright ignores the protocol check

[21:47:04]

ezzieyguywuf:

wagnerrp: so what filesystem type do you recommend?

[21:47:07]

Wicked:

yea. buts its fine if your just using it to watch eps.

[21:47:14]

Wicked:

it wont write to the database

[21:47:26]

Wicked:

ezzieyguywuf, id go with ext3/4

[21:47:34]

Wicked:

your choice really

[21:47:42]

Wicked:

both have been good to me :)

[21:47:51]

ezzieyguywuf:

well, I was planning on using ext4. I don't want any of this "database thrashing"

[21:48:00]

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[21:48:05]

** sphery can't wait until the planned database change that will completely break all semblance of compatibility with old historic versions goes in **

[21:48:34]

Wicked:

lol

[21:48:42]

sphery:

ezzieyguywuf: as long as your database data and recordings are on different filesystems, you shouldn't have any problems

[21:49:06]

sphery:

different spindles (hard drives) is ideal, but not mandatory

[21:49:13]

Wicked:

yea...even better have your os/db on a whole diff drive

[21:49:32]

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[21:50:01]

sphery:

oh, and by, "you shouldn't have any problems," I don't mean to endorse ext4 or any other filesystem--I'm simply saying that MythTV won't care, and the only problems will be the typical problems you'd have with the chosen file system (regardless of app)

[21:50:07]

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[21:50:28]

ezzieyguywuf:

hm. ok.

[21:50:41]

ezzieyguywuf:

so I should put this database thing on a separate partition, or optimally a separate drive

[21:50:56]

sphery:

yeah

[21:50:56]

gatekeeper:

hello all. is there a way to query the backend service without using telnet ?

[21:51:05]

gatekeeper is now known as Geminizer

[21:52:21]

wagnerrp:

i would suggest not using ext3

[21:52:21]

ezzieyguywuf:

Geminizer: ssh?

[21:52:25]

sphery:

because hard drives are way too large for only a root file system, anymore, I have a recording partition on the same drive that has the database data, but I also have 2 or 3 (depending on backend) other hard drives that all get used for new recordings before the one with the DB partition

[21:52:32]

wagnerrp:

because of the aforementioned slow delete issue

[21:52:51]

** sphery still uses ext3 **

[21:53:12]

sphery:

and, besides, ext3 with 256-byte inodes in current kernels is actually quite fast at deletes

[21:53:29]

sphery:

though I still use slow deletes

[21:53:40]

sphery:

oh, and I'm not endorsing ext3, either :)

[21:53:51]

wagnerrp:

isnt that fairly small? isnt 4K or larger default?

[21:54:02]

Wicked:

my mythtv hard drive is ext3

[21:54:07]

J-e-f-f-A:

Geminizer: how about http://localhost:6543 ? (or the IP of your backend)

[21:54:34]

sphery:

wagnerrp: you're thinking of block size, not inode size

[21:54:56]

wagnerrp:

sphery: anyway, im only asking because ive recently been saying mythbox ignores schema AND protocol

[21:54:59]

sphery:

the new 256-byte inodes are 2x the size of the previous default (and, IIRC, the only allowed value)

[21:55:13]

sphery:

oh, don't know what mythbox is

[21:55:18]

wagnerrp:

but thats not the case, it only seems to ignore schema, although thats sufficient reason on its own

[21:55:24]

wagnerrp:

mythbox is xbmc's myth frontend

[21:55:49]

Wicked:

mythbox is a xbox addon

[21:55:55]

wagnerrp:

although looking through their code is actually somewhat interesting

[21:55:56]

Geminizer:

J-e-f-f-A: That's exactly what I was thinking :) But how to invoke the same commands going that route (e.g. query location, play program ...)?

[21:56:05]

wagnerrp:

its pure python, even the mysql libraries

[21:56:11]

Wicked:

there is native code in xbmc that supports the myth:// protocol

[21:56:20]

sphery:

Geminizer: why not telnet?

[21:56:20]

Wicked:

and uses cmyth lib

[21:56:22]

J-e-f-f-A:

Geminizer: Then nope, telnet it is.

[21:56:28]

sphery:

Geminizer: if not, use Python bindings

[21:56:34]

J-e-f-f-A:

^^ or that.

[21:56:36]

sphery:

but telnet is a lot easier

[21:56:37]

wagnerrp:

Wicked: cmyth does not support the myth:// protocol

[21:56:39]

J-e-f-f-A:

;-)

[21:56:42]

wagnerrp:

it can merely try to use it

[21:56:43]

sphery:

though python bindings won't tell you frontend stuff

[21:56:51]

sphery:

*TTBOMK

[21:56:59]

Geminizer:

the only downside I have been experiencing is that I can't establish concurrent telnet sessions

[21:57:23]

wagnerrp:

one of the base requirements of the myth protocol is to perform a version check, and only connect if you can speak the same

[21:57:35]

wagnerrp:

cmyth outright ignores the check, and connects anyway

[21:57:40]

J-e-f-f-A:

Geminizer: And why would you need to?

[21:57:53]

wagnerrp:

Geminizer: that has been fixed, i believe prior to 0.22, but certainly in 0.23

[21:58:02]

Wicked:

ah.

[21:58:14]

Geminizer:

nice... definitely good to know

[21:58:38]

Wicked:

ah

[21:59:01]

sphery:

and 0.23-fixes is well worth the upgrade

[22:00:38]

Geminizer:

sphery: is there a way to perform an upgrade from an existing older version of myth?

[22:00:53]

sphery:

are you using a distro and its packages?

[22:01:07]

Geminizer:

yes, knoppmyth

[22:01:11]

wagnerrp:

Geminizer: mythtv-setup will automatically update your schema from any recent version of mythtv

[22:01:20]

wagnerrp:

recent meaning anything within the last 5–6 years

[22:01:29]

sphery:

don't know knoppmyth's status...

[22:01:41]

sphery:

(do you really mean LinHES or is it really that old?)

[22:03:49]

sphery:

http://mysettopbox.tv/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=20876 seems to indicate they have a testing repo

[22:04:01]

sphery:

I /hope/ it's using 0.23-fixes and not trunk, but I can't guarantee it

[22:04:17]

sphery:

you should check with people who know LinHES

[22:05:14]

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[22:53:00]

devinheitmueller:

Beirdo: pong

[22:53:56]

wagnerrp:

devinheitmueller: he was asking something about the Avermedia HD DVR card

[22:54:08]

wagnerrp:

guess he figured you were the most likely to know anything about support

[22:54:43]

devinheitmueller:

Yeah, I know about that card.

[22:54:53]

devinheitmueller:

I looked into it. It's got a TM6200.

[22:56:19]

devinheitmueller:

It's got a rather old PCIe bridge which is not used in any other card. Totally unsupported in Linux.

[22:56:29]

Beirdo:

devinheitmueller: yeah, just wondering if it's on the list of "will never work"

[22:57:00]

devinheitmueller:

(and given how old the chip is and the low likelihood that it will be used in anything else makes it not worth the effort)

[22:57:44]

Beirdo:

gotcha

[22:57:57]

Beirdo:

a shame though, that seems to be a potentially sweet card

[22:58:09]

devinheitmueller:

It's a shame they didn't use a more common/recent chip, otherwise it might be worth the effort.

[22:58:20]

Beirdo:

yeah

[22:58:30]

devinheitmueller:

It just doesn't make sense to spend several months adding support for a rare PCIe bridge that is only used in one card.

[22:58:38]

Beirdo:

such is life.

[22:58:41]

devinheitmueller:

yup

[22:58:46]

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[22:58:49]

Beirdo:

yeah, sucks, but oh well :)

[22:59:35]

Beirdo:

I'll just forget it exists. Hehe

[23:00:25]

wagnerrp:

at $85, im going to go out on a limb and say its a framegrabber

[23:00:35]

Beirdo:

it does HDTV

[23:00:53]

devinheitmueller:

Yeah, it's just a framegrabber. It doesn't have an onboard encoder.

[23:01:16]

Beirdo:

so the driver for 'blows does the compression?

[23:01:18]

Beirdo:

buggers

[23:01:23]

Beirdo:

never mind then :)

[23:01:25]

Beirdo:

heh

[23:01:59]

Beirdo:

does do component in though

[23:02:05]

devinheitmueller:

correct.

[23:02:08]

Beirdo:

that's what made me go "hmmm"

[23:02:10]

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[23:02:17]

devinheitmueller:

Yeah, it can capture both component and HDMI.

[23:02:43]

Beirdo:

too bad it's so dumbly designed then

[23:02:50]

Beirdo:

ah well. Life goes on

[23:02:54]

devinheitmueller:

yup.

[23:03:03]

Beirdo:

HDPVR it is :)

[23:03:18]

Beirdo:

when I get home from Philly, I have DirecTV within days

[23:03:27]

Beirdo:

(home to Seattle that is)

[23:04:38]

Beirdo:

so just planning ahead to see what to use to capture :)

[23:07:24]

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[23:07:46]

Beirdo:

Philly's been interesting, but so far I haven't done much but work...

[23:07:57]

Beirdo:

going to a Phillies game on Saturday though

[23:08:37]

devinheitmueller:

Yeah, I spend alot of time in Philly since my fiance lives there.

[23:08:46]

devinheitmueller:

Back and forth from New York City every weekend.

[23:08:51]

Beirdo:

wow

[23:08:57]

Beirdo:

heh, cool though

[23:09:21]

Beirdo:

I'm currently about 3 blocks from City Hall

[23:11:06]

Beirdo:

with no camera, sightseeing isn't as much fun

[23:11:19]

Beirdo:

my digital camera bit it...

[23:11:23]

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[23:11:29]

Beirdo:

the battery won't hold a charge anymore

[23:11:41]

wagnerrp:

non-replaceable?

[23:11:54]

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[23:12:05]

wagnerrp:

all the cameras ive seen take a standard battery pack

[23:12:07]

Beirdo:

I'm sure it can be replaced, but I'd rather spend the $$ on a replacement

[23:12:12]

Beirdo:

Nikon E5200

[23:12:44]

Beirdo:

a 6 year old tiny camera

[23:12:49]

wagnerrp:

yeah, it doesnt take AAs, or one of the special camera packs in that handgrip?

[23:13:10]

Beirdo:

it's a custom battery pack. LiIon, I think

[23:13:28]

Beirdo:

I left the stupid thing in Seattle since it was pointless to bring it

[23:13:51]

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[23:13:59]

Beirdo:

and the film camera was too large to bother

[23:14:04]

wagnerrp:

customers who bought camera batteries on amazon also bought the legend of zelda.... wtf?

[23:15:32]

Beirdo:

hehe

[23:15:34]

Beirdo:

how odd

[23:20:38]

wagnerrp:

is this JSON? http://ajax.googleapis.com/ajax/services/sear . . . image_search

[23:21:04]

Beirdo:

sure looks like it

[23:21:20]

Beirdo:

I would have to say yes

[23:21:23]

wagnerrp:

ok, because thats the exact syntax python uses

[23:21:28]

dfletcher:

maybe they were buying extra batteries for it. legend of zelda actually had batteries in it :P

[23:21:39]

wagnerrp:

i could 'eval' that, and get a dictionary back

[23:22:00]

dfletcher:

heh the days before flash were funny :)

[23:22:09]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: yeah, python and json are friendly, I guess

[23:22:14]

wagnerrp:

i just couldnt believe that google would be returning google code

[23:22:25]

wagnerrp:

erm... python code

[23:22:36]

Beirdo:

that wouldn't surprise me much

[23:22:41]

Beirdo:

they use python a LOT

[23:22:56]

Beirdo:

but yeah, pretty sure their AJAX APIs use JSON

[23:23:04]

wagnerrp:

ooh... not quite

[23:23:13]

wagnerrp:

have to replace 'null' with 'None'

[23:23:24]

Beirdo:

heh

[23:23:49]

wagnerrp:

other than that, its seamless

[23:24:01]

Beirdo:

nice, huh?

[23:24:34]

wagnerrp:

just reading through this 'mythbox', and theyve got that for an artwork search

[23:24:43]

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[23:25:21]

wagnerrp:

except theyre actually using some proper json library

[23:28:22]

Beirdo:

hmmm

[23:28:29]

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[23:28:35]

Beirdo:

starting to window-shop for myth hardware

[23:28:50]

wagnerrp:

basically, i wrote my own (completely different) version of what much of their code does

[23:28:55]

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[23:29:10]

wagnerrp:

and its interesting to see someone elses design strategy

[23:29:20]

Beirdo:

any faves for multi-core processors with low power consumption?

[23:30:08]

wagnerrp:

apparently the 32nm i5 stuff does pretty well

[23:30:34]

wagnerrp:

personally, im looking at some of the low power quad/hex core AMD stuff for my next home server

[23:30:51]

Beirdo:

been a WHILE since I bought anything Intel (other than Atom laptop)

[23:30:55]

jst_:

Do you guys think it's a good idea to install Mythbuntu daily builds?

[23:31:12]

wagnerrp:

jst_: are they of trunk or 0.23-fixes?

[23:31:15]

Beirdo:

Hmm, hexacore could be cool.

[23:31:19]

jst_:

wagnerrp, latter.

[23:31:27]

wagnerrp:

then there should be no problem

[23:31:31]

Beirdo:

I installed a dual 8-core Xeon at work the other day.

[23:31:35]

wagnerrp:

8?

[23:31:38]

Beirdo:

that was impressive

[23:31:44]

Beirdo:

yup.

[23:31:49]

wagnerrp:

i thought they only went up to 6

[23:32:02]

wagnerrp:

is that a true 8-core? or a dual package like the AMD 8 and 12 core stuff?

[23:32:04]

Beirdo:

well, 16 cores, but it said 2 physical devices

[23:32:12]

jst_:

wagnerrp, are they released only when a new revision is created? I've had them enabled in the past and only got updates maybe once every few days. I had to update twice today. I know, I know, daily builds.

[23:32:24]

Beirdo:

not precisely sure, but dang... 81k bogomips :)

[23:32:24]

Beirdo:

heh

[23:32:43]

wagnerrp:

jst_: 0.23-fixes is supposed to always be stable, thats the purpose of a stable branch

[23:32:52]

wagnerrp:

there should be no problem doing daily updates

[23:32:53]

Beirdo:

couldn't help but drool a bit

[23:33:00]

wagnerrp:

but there should be little purpose doing so either

[23:33:09]

wagnerrp:

as its not going to be updated very often

[23:33:14]

wagnerrp:

just the occasional bug fix

[23:33:24]

jst_:

Okay, thanks.

[23:33:31]

jst_:

As always.

[23:33:39]

jst_:

You basically live here, don't you? :)

[23:33:45]

wagnerrp:

nah

[23:34:19]

jst_:

I got win32 to compile and it works great now, by the way. ;)

[23:34:53]

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[23:35:00]

wagnerrp:

what is this??? 6-core socket 604?

[23:35:03]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103849

[23:35:28]

Beirdo:

hmmm, that's tempting

[23:35:52]

wagnerrp:

i thought socket 604 was years old and no longer used any more

[23:36:08]

Beirdo:

heh

[23:36:15]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: the 2.8GHz version is only $210

[23:36:27]

Beirdo:

yeah, a better place on the price curve

[23:36:33]

wagnerrp:

but its not unlocked, if youre interested in that

[23:36:47]

Beirdo:

unlocked for overclocking?

[23:36:49]

Beirdo:

meh

[23:36:52]

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[23:39:33]

wagnerrp:

seems the 8-core xeons came out end of march

[23:39:45]

Beirdo:

yeah, sounds about right

[23:39:49]

wagnerrp:

only 24MB of L3

[23:39:57]

Beirdo:

I don't wanna know how much they paid for the puppies

[23:40:13]

wagnerrp:

over $3K

[23:40:22]

wagnerrp:

each

[23:40:32]

Beirdo:

heh

[23:40:34]

Beirdo:

likely so

[23:40:57]

Beirdo:

but it was cool seeing the kernel spew about it :)

[23:41:20]

wagnerrp:

4 DDR3 channels each

[23:43:02]

Beirdo:

125W... hmmm

[23:43:46]

wagnerrp:

yeah, the 6-core Cores are 130W, not much difference

[23:44:05]

wagnerrp:

theres apparently at least one 45W 4-core AMD, but its pretty rare to find retail

[23:44:29]

jst_:

Is that 45W for the whole CPU or 45W per core?

[23:44:41]

wagnerrp:

whole

[23:45:39]

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[23:46:03]

Beirdo:

found a 65W quad AMD

[23:46:44]

wagnerrp:

http://www.google.com/products?q=athlon+605E

[23:47:06]

wagnerrp:

they mostly got bought up by OEMs

[23:47:16]

wagnerrp:

not much available on the retail market

[23:47:36]

Beirdo:

not surprising

[23:48:10]

Beirdo:

the one I found is a 905e

[23:49:08]

wagnerrp:

slightly faster, lot more cache

[23:49:27]

wagnerrp:

lot more /enabled/ cache

[23:49:33]

Beirdo:

yeah

[23:49:34]

wagnerrp:

theyre probably physically the same exact chip

[23:49:34]

Beirdo:

heh

[23:49:40]

Beirdo:

most likely

[23:49:55]

Beirdo:

just different bin after testing

[23:50:45]

Beirdo:

I'll go look at the Intel offerings too

[23:53:13]

Beirdo:

so you were suggesting i5?

[23:54:00]

wagnerrp:

i dont know much at all about it

[23:54:08]

Beirdo:

heh, OK

[23:54:21]

wagnerrp:

ive just heard review sites touting the latest 32nm batch as being very low power

[23:54:38]

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[23:56:10]

Beirdo:

nice.

[23:56:22]

Beirdo:

the UM model is about 18W TDP

[23:56:26]

Beirdo:

for a dual

[23:56:56]

wagnerrp:

probably expensive and only 2.2GHz or so

[23:58:03]

Beirdo:

yeah, likely

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