Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Tuesday, July 20th, 2010, 00:28 AST

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Lexridge:

Hi all. Does anyone know if XBMC works with mythtv 0.23?

[00:35:03]

[R]:

"with"?

[00:35:11]

[R]:

i belive there is a myth like plugin or soething with it

[00:35:16]

[R]:

but it was pretty crappy the last time i checked

[00:35:21]

kormoc:

Unlikely that'd we know and we try to not support it as they don't support our protocol correctly

[00:35:22]

wagnerrp:

you can have the both installed on the same computer, if thats what you mean

[00:35:38]

wagnerrp:

you can adjust each's menus to open the other

[00:35:40]

Lexridge:

humm, interesting.

[00:36:03]

wagnerrp:

but correct, we do not support or condone the use of the 'mythbox' plugin

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[R]:

condone

[00:36:21]

[R]:

haha

[00:36:22]

wagnerrp:

not until they start doing proper schema checking before dicking with the database

[00:36:23]

[R]:

its like its an illegal drug

[00:36:24]

Lexridge:

Well, xbmc seems like a rather cool project. Shame it doesnt support mythtv better

[00:36:36]

Lexridge:

I was wondering about the schema checking

[00:37:19]

wagnerrp:

it /does/ implement proper protocol checking for data access, but not for streaming video

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Lexridge:

I cannot even make it connect to mythbackend 23

[00:37:38]

Lexridge:

but I have not apparently installed the mythbox plugin either.

[00:37:48]

Lexridge:

which would explain it.

[00:37:48]

wagnerrp:

how recent is your backend?

[00:37:49]

rhollan:

that IS playing not nice by them in the interest of lazyness

[00:37:55]

wagnerrp:

the last couple days?

[00:37:59]

Lexridge:

backend was rebuilt yesterday from fixes

[00:38:21]

wagnerrp:

yeah, your backend is version 23056... which probably horribly confuses them

[00:38:29]

wagnerrp:

rather protocol version

[00:38:30]

Lexridge:

yea, I think you are right

[00:38:42]

wagnerrp:

where as trunk is currently version 58

[00:39:06]

Lexridge:

I am just having so many issues with my mythfrontend, I was hoping xbmc would work for me instead.

[00:39:16]

wagnerrp:

i /know/ mythbox will not handle that, because it actually does do protocol checking

[00:39:29]

wagnerrp:

but i dont know what the built in streaming support in xbmc would do

[00:39:41]

wagnerrp:

what issues is the frontend having?

[00:40:18]

Lexridge:

Very strange issues. I have discussed them here before. It takes anywhere from 2–20 minutes for live video to start, in example

[00:40:32]

Lexridge:

or recorded video too.

[00:40:49]

Lexridge:

and sometimes it even takes many minutes for the frontend to show me the menu.

[00:41:10]

Lexridge:

this all started with 0.23

[00:41:19]

wagnerrp:

something horribly wrong going on there

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wagnerrp:

waiting on a timeout of something

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Lexridge:

yea, tell me about it

[00:41:29]

kormoc:

opengl painter or qt painter?

[00:41:48]

Lexridge:

I have tried every such setting. Nothing makes any difference whatsoever.

[00:41:57]

kormoc:

strace -ff mythfrontend

[00:42:02]

kormoc:

run it via that, see what it's waiting on

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wagnerrp:

mythfrontend -O ThemePainter=qt

[00:42:25]

Lexridge:

okay, I will try those things

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Lexridge:

hang on

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wagnerrp:

and change your playback profile to 'slim

[00:43:33]

Lexridge:

I'm running slim presently

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wagnerrp:

unaltered?

[00:43:57]

Lexridge:

strace -ff just seems to forget everything....as if its the first time running it

[00:44:09]

Lexridge:

yes, unaltered

[00:44:50]

Lexridge:

thempainter=qt made the menu open much faster

[00:44:58]

Lexridge:

but that COULD be a fluke

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kormoc:

much faster being usable?

[00:45:44]

kormoc:

could just be your opengl drivers are busted

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Lexridge:

It still is hanging on watching live or recording however

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Lexridge:

kormoc: How could that happen?

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kormoc:

bet you have opengl vsync for your video timing enabled

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kormoc:

a million ways? People seem to do it every day or two in here

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Lexridge:

I think I do, actually....but I did not at first

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Lexridge:

opengl vsync, that is

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kormoc:

turn off opengl vsync and make sure your osd is not opengl rendered

[00:46:38]

Lexridge:

okay

[00:46:43]

kormoc:

(make sure it's all not opengl in your display profile)

[00:46:50]

Lexridge:

here is the odd thing.

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Lexridge:

this is dual monitor system

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kormoc:

so?

[00:47:21]

Lexridge:

When I go the the x-session that is NOT running mythfrontend, and open a program (ie Firefox), LiveTV starts

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kormoc:

xinerama/dual x screens has nothing to do with opengl :)

[00:47:29]

kormoc:

huh

[00:47:36]

Lexridge:

strange eh!

[00:47:38]

kormoc:

nvidia, nv, ati, rage?

[00:47:40]

wagnerrp:

well often xinerama will break opengl

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Lexridge:

nvidia

[00:47:50]

Lexridge:

I am not using xinerama

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kormoc:

desktop spanning?

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Lexridge:

just dual x-sessions

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kormoc:

pastebin glxinfo when run in the broken screen

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wagnerrp:

full sessions? or separate screens?

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Lexridge:

seperate x sessions

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wagnerrp:

is glxgears smooth?

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kormoc:

:0.0 and :0.1 or :0.0 and :1.0

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kormoc:

ahh

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Lexridge:

yes, glxgears is smooth on both monitors

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kormoc:

yeah, you have no opengl direct rendering if they're seperate sessions

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kormoc:

glxgears is smooth on cpu rendering these days :)

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Lexridge:

so what are you saying?

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kormoc:

turn off all opengl stuff and it should work

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wagnerrp:

oh? cant say ive actually run it on anything more recent than my ancient laptop

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kormoc:

or switch to screen based split screens

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Lexridge:

in nvidia settings, or mythfrontend?

[00:49:53]

kormoc:

mythfrontend

[00:50:02]

Lexridge:

okay, I'll try that

[00:50:31]

Lexridge:

this time, on startup, using the painter=qt, it is hanging on the menu.

[00:50:56]

kormoc:

strace

[00:51:01]

kormoc:

see what it's hanging on :)

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Lexridge:

of course, it worked instantly the second time, with strace

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Lexridge:

okay, just turned off the OpenGL Vertical sync timing

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Lexridge:

I am still set to SLIM

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kormoc:

just verify that nothing in it is opengl

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Lexridge:

ok

[00:53:26]

kormoc:

or any direct rendering (vdpau, framebuffer)

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Lexridge:

everything is xv-blit

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Lexridge:

now trying livetv again

[00:55:18]

Lexridge:

same thing. The verbose is only showing me TV: DrawUnusedRects() — begin and alternating with --end

[00:56:09]

Lexridge:

I'm thinking something might be left over from an earlier installation that is fscking with things.

[00:56:54]

Lexridge:

oh, my my old Gforce 6800 does not support vdpau :(

[00:57:10]

wagnerrp:

ive got one of those

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wagnerrp:

fan gave out a while back

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Lexridge:

it's been a great card. Fan even still works lol

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wagnerrp:

i thought so, four years ago

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Lexridge:

This is a fedora 8 machine, I need to just update, but the newer KDE 4 does NOT support separate X-sessions yet, which is a serious drawback for me

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wagnerrp:

:)

[00:58:55]

Lexridge:

and I HATE gnome

[00:59:29]

Lexridge:

I could always run gnome on the 24" myth montor, and KDE on my main monitor I guess

[00:59:49]

wagnerrp:

personally, ive never liked the menu in kde

[01:00:13]

Lexridge:

do you mean the "K" menu?

[01:00:29]

wagnerrp:

the fact that it doesnt branch, and even worse that i dont control the menu, or use it enough to know where things are

[01:01:01]

wagnerrp:

opening subfolders within the same frame is a horrible design

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Lexridge:

I dont really use the menu either. I mostly start programs via a shell. lol

[01:01:20]

Lexridge:

or a desktop icon

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wagnerrp:

if i knew what to search for, i would have disabled that on my windows machine

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Lexridge:

The problem I am having, however rare, is happening to others. I spent a good three days googling for it, and all the people that were having it, none were resolved.

[01:02:46]

Lexridge:

some unique is going on somewhere with very few systems, including mine apparently

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Lexridge:

something, that is

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Lexridge:

It has been hanging now for, oh....8 minutes. However, if I start up firefox, it will start livetv

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Lexridge:

and it did!!!

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Lexridge:

WTF?

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Lexridge:

I cannot even fathom where the commonality would be there.

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wagnerrp:

some weird X value its waiting on

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wagnerrp:

starting up another program cleared the lock

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Lexridge:

perhaps

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Lexridge:

I'm running a very old xorg. 7.3

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Lexridge:

alright, I'm tired of messing with it tonight. thank you for your help. Maybe I will get this figured out eventually, maybe not lol. Cya later.

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wagnerrp:

even running opengl on a system without opengl, ive never seen it run that poorly

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Lexridge:

I know, strange stuff

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wagnerrp:

it starts up immediately, and just has slow transitions

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wagnerrp:

fades between menu pages take several seconds instead of a few hundred milliseconds

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Lexridge:

Right, I have seen it run on very slow machines.

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Lexridge:

nothing like this however

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Lexridge:

and this is a dual core cpu

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Lexridge:

w/2GB ram

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Lexridge:

thanks again. I'll tackle it again tomorrow. Gnight!

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kormoc:

iamlindoro, Are you intending to be able to play folders of folders in mythvideo?

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wagnerrp:

i imagine hes not intending to do anything until the video/recording merge, and playlist support gets picked up almost automatically

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kormoc:

fair 'nuff

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wagnerrp:

im looking at this post in -dev about moving from exif to exiv2, and i dont understand how that would affect backwards compatibility at all

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wagnerrp:

is he talking about having mythtv support using either library you provide it?

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wagnerrp:

what would it need to be compatible with?

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justinh:

I always find that funny. I messed with nigh on every setting & it's still busted

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justinh:

yeah, go round hitting random buttons & stuff will likely stay as broken.. if not become even more broken

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kormoc:

well, the setup is really busted anyway

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kormoc:

you can't give exclusive access to the video card twice

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justinh:

heh

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justinh:

eep. time to go to work

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** rhollan yawwwwwwns **

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rhollan:

so much for Radius tonight. But at least I have an idea how to configure it: I need to create a server cert for the Radius server under my Services intermediate CA, and a client cert for each machine under my Machines intermediate CA. They share a root CA.

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justinh:

oh dear. UK PM says he was a big fan of Grange Hill. Infact the character 'Gripper Stebson' was one of his all-time role models. Yeah, Gripper. the resident bully who robbed kids' lunch money & flushed many a first year's head down the loo

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AndyCap:

justinh: sounds about right. :P

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Beirdo:

home sweet home

[04:50:49]

Beirdo:

YAY

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Beirdo:

no missed recordings

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Beirdo:

it was my DSL modem that went haywire

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Beirdo:

myth just kept on truckin

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justinh:

heh so mythtv is a freight transport solution now too? COOL!

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justinh:

oh GOD. This 'find a better connector for our internal HDMI' thing is getting stupid. Plugging it in & seeing if it goes IS NOT qualification damnit

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justinh:

no more. soldering 0.5mm ribbon cable connector onto an SMT HDMI socket. oh boy

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[08:12:25]

rossand:

Looking for suggestions on how to debug/tune for mildly choppy video on front end. Running Fedora 13 with Mythtv 0.23 on each – backend on beefy server, front ends on beefy laptops (dual core, 3 Ghz). Gig-E ethernet. CPU never goes over 60% on either.

[08:13:03]

wagnerrp:

hopefully something other than Pentium D chips?

[08:14:14]

rossand:

T7800 on lappy, server is in fact a pentium D. Good guess?

[08:14:38]

wagnerrp:

a P-D is not what one would consider 'beefy'

[08:14:59]

wagnerrp:

but it doesnt matter, would be plenty for mythtv's recording and streaming needs

[08:15:20]

wagnerrp:

would be a bit light for commflagging of HD content, definitely light for any transcoding you may want to do

[08:15:22]

rossand:

Dual core 3.0 Ghz. Yeah, not being a limiting factor was my point.

[08:15:53]

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[08:16:45]

wagnerrp:

what graphics on the laptops?

[08:16:47]

rossand:

I have a i7 920 1366 coming to replace it soon.

[08:17:13]

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[08:17:37]

rossand:

lappy's video card is Quadro NVS 140M. Oh, I think I know what's going on...

[08:17:55]

wagnerrp:

youre using the proprietary nvidia drivers?

[08:18:07]

rossand:

:-) Um, no. Sorry for being an idiot.

[08:18:23]

wagnerrp:

use of 'nv' would do it...

[08:18:30]

rossand:

I had them on it before re-installing recently for Fedora 13.

[08:18:50]

rossand:

So that's likely my issue right there. Thanks for letting me think out loud.

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[09:00:01]

LouisDK:

Hi. I've brought an Asrock Nettop 330TH-BD and installed Myhbuntu 10.04 64-bit on it, but the remote control dosn't work. I've installed this driver: http://www.asrock.com/nettop/download.asp?Mod . . . &o=Linux but gets this output: http://pastebin.com/xdPZAwg4

[09:01:11]

LouisDK:

I've tried to restart lirc with out effect and when I run "dmesg | grep lirc" I get this output: [ 11.817512] lirc_dev: IR Remote Control driver registered, major 61

[09:01:12]

LouisDK:

[ 11.817877] lirc_wb677: disagrees about version of symbol module_layout

[09:01:55]

wagnerrp:

we can help you get mythtv working with lirc

[09:02:14]

wagnerrp:

but if lirc itself is not working, you may have better luck in #lirc or #ubuntu or #mythbuntu

[09:02:59]

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[09:03:50]

rileyp:

there is prolly a guide on the xbmc forums for the asrocks remote

[09:04:04]

rileyp:

In fact Im sure there is

[09:04:37]

wagnerrp:

similarly, #xbmc is merely a user of lirc and not the proper place to seek help getting lirc installed

[09:04:48]

LouisDK:

I'm looking at the xmbc forums right now. Thanks.

[09:06:14]

rileyp:

http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?s=4db8bf . . . &page=34 11 pages of goops on your remote

[09:07:07]

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[09:09:31]

rileyp:

LouisDK http://blog.ramondeklein.nl/index.php/2010/01 . . . k-ion-330ht/

[09:11:13]

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[09:11:26]

justinh:

meh. I speet on eggsbee-emcee

[09:29:42]

LouisDK:

It's strange that it doesn't just works after installing the driver. Can it have something to do with hat I've replaced the motherboard from a cheaper model that dosn't include a remote control – So it don't have IR?

[09:29:53]

LouisDK:

*that

[09:32:36]

justinh:

it's not strange at all

[09:33:18]

justinh:

lirc & apps which use lirc very much rely on appropriate config files being provided to ensure IR codes are correctly translated into button actions for an application

[09:33:53]

justinh:

the driver being loaded gives you just about only one thing – a working lirc device node which the lirc daemon can monitor

[09:34:18]

justinh:

simply loading the driver alone will not 'just make lirc work'

[09:36:04]

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[09:37:56]

LouisDK:

Ah okey. So I need some specific config for mythtv? But I've runned "sudo mythbuntu-lirc-generator"...

[09:45:34]

justinh:

first of all try the irw command

[09:45:56]

justinh:

then press every button on your remote. if all is well irw will produce output for every button you press

[09:47:53]

LouisDK:

Now i typed "irw" in the terminal and press a lot of buttons on my remote, but no output.

[09:50:29]

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[09:52:01]

LouisDK:

I'll try to boot from a normal Ubuntu and install the driver on it to see if it's a hardware or a software problem.

[09:54:43]

justinh:

it's a problem with the interface between the chair & the keyboard IMHO :)

[09:55:16]

justinh:

if irw produces no output, not even any errors, then it's more than likely just a case of a config file not being geared to the remote you're using

[09:55:33]

rileyp:

LouisDK, have you adjusted hardware.conf? for your reciver

[09:56:20]

justinh:

there are 3 config files at play here. hardware.conf, lircd.conf and lircrc

[09:56:38]

justinh:

hardware.conf is used to describe the lirc hardware – funnily enough

[09:56:56]

justinh:

and lircd.conf describes the actual remote & configures the codes each button represents

[09:57:13]

rileyp:

he nnedsa short course in lirc irw etc....

[09:57:26]

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[09:57:32]

justinh:

oh, like reading the docs at lirc.org ? :)

[09:57:53]

justinh:

mind you there's a hell of a lot they expect users to get by reading between the lines

[09:58:03]

rileyp:

he could try gnome-lirc-properties but I dont think his reciver will be in the list

[09:58:18]

justinh:

meh. silly gui tools

[09:58:19]

rileyp:

well Ive spent my time on the lirc pages

[09:58:28]

justinh:

the lirc pages?

[09:58:37]

justinh:

I mean their official 'documentation'

[09:58:50]

justinh:

lirc needs nuked ideally

[09:59:07]

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[09:59:30]

LouisDK:

Hmm I'll look at that. But from that I've read install the driver and "sudo mythbuntu-lirc-generator" would be enough.

[09:59:41]

justinh:

dunno where you read that

[09:59:49]

rileyp:

I know it covers everything you dont want to know like stuff about about home built rsr232 receivers etc

[10:00:18]

justinh:

if irw produces no output at all, try the command mode2

[10:00:45]

justinh:

then when you press buttons on the remote it should at least spew something out. if you get nothing from mode2 then your hardware.conf file is misconfigured

[10:01:32]

rileyp:

you need to no the driver name and module to set in /etc/lirc/hardware.conf

[10:03:45]

rileyp:

And by the sounds of it He dont know so how is hardware.conf gonna know if he cant choose it from the drop down list

[10:04:18]

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[10:04:41]

rileyp:

the lirc generrator is used to create a crc for myth

[10:04:48]

rileyp:

thats all

[10:06:13]

rileyp:

Apple did a great disservice to its customers by requiring all RSS feeds be accessible from the public Internet in order to view them in Mobile Safari

[10:06:27]

rileyp:

what a pain in the bum this one is.....

[10:06:54]

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[10:08:16]

rileyp:

I created a rss server for my ipod to download myth recodings and the the stupid bloody ipod needs to talk to apple to alllow it to download the movie

[10:09:12]

justinh:

lircrc file, not crc

[10:10:23]

rileyp:

Why would apple do such a thing?

[10:10:56]

justinh:

and all of this without one single instance of the user saying which remote he's trying to get working

[10:11:05]

justinh:

sigh

[10:11:28]

rileyp:

He did its an asrock ion built in thing

[10:11:35]

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[10:12:19]

justinh:

another test you can do while the lirc driver is loaded... cat /dev/lirc0 or whatever the device is.. then press buttons on the remote

[10:12:36]

justinh:

if it spews out junk when you press buttons – and I mean *junk* – then the driver is working at least

[10:12:47]

LouisDK:

I'm back. I've booted from a live cd and installed the driver for the remote and now irw react when I'm using the remote. Wired.

[10:12:58]

rileyp:

http://pastebin.com/xdPZAwg4 thats his take of woe

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[10:13:42]

rileyp:

So its fixed?

[10:13:43]

LouisDK:

*weird

[10:14:18]

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[10:14:22]

rileyp:

No sometimes you prolly needed to restart lirc perhaps

[10:17:16]

LouisDK:

Hmm. It works from the 32-bit Ubuntu live-cd, but not from the 64-bit Mythbuntu 10.04.

[10:17:59]

LouisDK:

I'll reboot into the Mythbuntu OS again.

[10:18:18]

rileyp:

LouisDK, copy the hardware conf onto a usb stick

[10:18:33]

rileyp:

off the working system

[10:18:41]

LouisDK:

ok

[10:18:56]

rileyp:

then ist only a mtter of the lirc.crc

[10:19:25]

rileyp:

which can be created with the mythbuntu lirc generator as long as the drivers are there

[10:20:56]

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[10:21:30]

iamlindoro:

That is incorrect

[10:21:42]

iamlindoro:

first off, it's "lircrc," not lirc.crc

[10:22:02]

iamlindoro:

secondly, that script parses lircd.conf to create an lircrc... simply having drivers installed is not enough

[10:22:23]

iamlindoro:

The drivers need to be installed, lirc needs to be operational, the lirc daemon needs to be running correctly, and the lircd.conf needs to be properly configured

[10:22:40]

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[10:24:44]

justinh:

mode2 is handy for testing that lircd is running

[10:25:16]

justinh:

you can even cat the lirc device as I've already said – handy for a quick & dirty test to see if it's receiving ok

[10:25:38]

justinh:

anyhoo, I think the channel has found its new clever

[10:25:55]

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[10:29:24]

justinh:

crap. ceo has been eyeballing the work I was doing on replacing the hdmi connector. last thing I need before I go on leave

[10:29:56]

justinh:

no way I'd want to be the fall guy for this retarded thinking.

[10:30:46]

rileyp:

justing Are you electronics enginneer?

[10:31:07]

rileyp:

justinh Are you electronics enginneer?

[10:31:50]

rossand:

as expected, switching to nvidia drivers made frontend video smooth. HD over the air signals sure look pretty.

[10:32:54]

LouisDK:

I've now rebooted into the Mythbuntu OS and replaced the hwd conf from the working Ubuntu. irw says "connect: No such file or directory" and the tried to cat the remote device /etc/lirc0 (found in the hwd conf): cat: /etc/lirc0: No such file or directory

[10:33:41]

LouisDK:

Should I boot into the Ubuntu live USB again and copy the lircd.conf?

[10:37:49]

LouisDK:

The 32 live-ubuntu runs kernel 2.6.32–21. The 64 mythbuntu runs kernel 2.6.32–21. Would that have something to say?

[10:38:34]

LouisDK:

I thin since it works on the live-ubuntu maybe some updates or me broke it in mythbuntu?

[10:39:03]

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[10:40:19]

rileyp:

Verify your selected kernel modules in /etc/lirc/hardware.conf that is your original error and so compare that with the hardware.conf you got from your livecd

[10:41:22]

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[10:49:26]

rossand:

I want to move my videos directory to put it on another disk (Fedora 13), which means a different mount point. Is there a procedure? Or is this just a matter of changing the back end directory for the videos and moving the files?

[10:50:33]

LouisDK:

Orignal file says: LOAD_MODULES="no" and it file from the livecd says: LOAD_MODULES="yes". Maybe that just it can after a reboot with the "yes" if would work?

[10:51:21]

LouisDK:

wait – there are some more diffs

[10:52:23]

LouisDK:

no there ain't

[10:53:46]

wagnerrp:

rossand: if you are using storage groups in mythvideo, mythtv will be able to find the files so long as they exist somewhere in some directory defined in that storage group on that host

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[10:54:06]

rossand:

Thanks wagnerrp. Perfect.

[10:54:33]

wagnerrp:

if they are in the same relative path in a different directory, it will find them immediately

[10:55:00]

wagnerrp:

if they are in a different relative path, or different filename, you will have to rescan in mythvideo and let it pick up the file through the hash mechanism

[10:59:00]

rossand:

Brilliant. That's great, thanks.

[11:02:20]

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[11:04:02]

** wagnerrp loves it when code he writes is obsoleted before its even released **

[11:04:21]

LouisDK:

Now the hardware.conf is equal to the one on the live-cd both it still dosn't works. When I restart lirc it says failed to load you selected kernel modules in hardware.conf. This is trange. Should I post my hwd conf @ pastebin?

[11:05:51]

rossand:

wagnerrp: figured out a better way to do something?

[11:06:23]

wagnerrp:

no, someone else did for me

[11:06:35]

wagnerrp:

a couple months back, i added an ordered dictionary class for use in the python bindings

[11:06:53]

wagnerrp:

python 2.7 released earlier this month now includes an ordered dictionary class

[11:07:10]

rossand:

That's even better.

[11:07:27]

rossand:

I love "free" stuff. :-)

[11:07:31]

wagnerrp:

of course i cant use it and have to continue using my own implementation, as the bindings only require 2.5, but thats besides the point

[11:07:42]

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[11:07:59]

rossand:

Right. Something to move to in the future?

[11:08:25]

wagnerrp:

probably not

[11:09:15]

wagnerrp:

ill probably migrate to the 3.x line before making 2.7 a requirement

[11:12:48]

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[11:14:55]

jams:

ordered dictinary was a great introduction to the language. It was very much needed.

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[11:45:37]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: dora the... anal explorer?

[11:45:50]

iamlindoro:

hah

[11:46:43]

iamlindoro:

Nobody is going to get that reference without a little work :)

[11:46:59]

wagnerrp:

about 33 minutes of work anyway

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[12:20:13]

sphery:

wagnerrp: heh, I didn't know it was a reference.

[12:20:24]

wagnerrp:

you listen to the mythtvcast?

[12:20:33]

sphery:

am just finishing that episode

[12:20:39]

sphery:

59:04

[12:20:56]

iamlindoro:

Almost free of that awful voice

[12:20:58]

sphery:

the guy says that #mythtv-users is the place to talk about it.

[12:21:01]

wagnerrp:

hes saying most people wont have, and thus wont know what my comment was referring to

[12:21:03]

sphery:

So I figured I'd come in here.

[12:21:32]

sphery:

wagnerrp: oh, I thought you meant there really was a show with that name

[12:21:43]

wagnerrp:

hell, probably

[12:21:47]

sphery:

lol

[12:21:49]

wagnerrp:

they porn-ize everything else

[12:22:53]

wagnerrp:

well there you go... http://failblog.org/2008/07/21/dora-the-explorer-fail/

[12:23:22]

sphery:

"Episode 22: Robert McNamara"

[12:23:26]

sphery:

talk about top billing

[12:23:32]

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[12:23:47]

** iamlindoro starts making unreasonable demands **

[12:23:54]

iamlindoro:

BRING ME MY BOWL OF BLUE M&MS

[12:23:58]

sphery:

wagnerrp: that's bad

[12:24:09]

** wagnerrp had to go into private mode for that search, didnt want that one going in the history **

[12:24:14]

sphery:

heh

[12:24:39]

wagnerrp:

dora the.... hey... WTF are you looking up

[12:24:41]

sphery:

iamlindoro: did they set up snacks, etc, to your liking in the Green Room?

[12:25:15]

sphery:

iamlindoro: (And Patrick and Dan): good show!

[12:25:29]

iamlindoro:

I made them paint the green room blue

[12:25:35]

iamlindoro:

because what papa wants, papa gets

[12:25:43]

sphery:

heh

[12:25:55]

sphery:

prima donna

[12:26:22]

sphery:

guess that should have been Pat

[12:26:53]

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[12:27:08]

sphery:

(not the prima donna comment, but the good show comment)

[12:27:11]

** sphery stops digging **

[12:27:28]

iamlindoro:

probably for the best

[12:28:31]

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[12:28:51]

iamlindoro:

Looks like the MakeMKV guy is finally going for-pay for Blu-ray

[12:28:57]

iamlindoro:

guess we're getting our support just in time then :)

[12:29:28]

sphery:

was it just freeware before?

[12:30:08]

wagnerrp:

makemkv was freeware

[12:30:18]

wagnerrp:

but the bluray stuff was always closed source

[12:30:29]

wagnerrp:

i think it may have only been available to 'donaters'

[12:30:40]

sphery:

oh... was wondering if it was FOSS how he was going closed

[12:30:51]

sphery:

but from freeware, it's easy enough

[12:31:19]

sphery:

I'm still enjoying my BluRay-free existence

[12:32:10]

sphery:

IMHO, the difference between VHS and DVD was great enough to re-purchase. The difference between DVD and BD isn't.

[12:32:20]

sphery:

so I'm still buying DVDs

[12:32:26]

iamlindoro:

You're right, 720x480 should be enough pixels for everyone

[12:32:32]

sphery:

lol

[12:32:36]

iamlindoro:

1920x1080? Too many digits!

[12:32:48]

sphery:

all you need is to apply the enhance algorithm

[12:32:57]

wagnerrp:

i dont plan on repurchasing much, but i dont plan on buying any more DVDs either

[12:33:08]

sphery:

I mean, look what they do with CCTV-quality garbage on CSI

[12:33:47]

wagnerrp:

and they dont even need the voice command and noisy flickering console

[12:34:51]

sphery:

In my world, the picture just has to be good enough that I don't notice how bad it is. It's the story that needs to be "high-definition."

[12:35:52]

wagnerrp:

although i guess at least when harrison ford did it, he was using an analog photograph that you legitimately could zoom in on

[12:36:04]

sphery:

(and I couldn't tell a difference between 8kHz, 16-bit mono audio and 192kHz, 24-bit multi-channel audio, so that's not a concern.)

[12:36:28]

sphery:

which show was that?

[12:36:44]

wagnerrp:

blade runner

[12:36:54]

sphery:

oh... I need to see that one again. Been too long.

[12:37:09]

wagnerrp:

that may have been the one to start it all

[12:37:38]

wagnerrp:

at least it was a very early example

[12:39:22]

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[12:42:45]

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[12:44:48]

** wagnerrp wants to yell at people putting hostnames in the 'IP fields', but he did the same thing years ago too... **

[12:45:20]

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[12:48:02]

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[12:52:04]

gbee:

and it's why we should resolve them into the IP

[12:53:15]

gbee:

when have we ever deleted anything from the settings table?

[12:53:25]

wagnerrp:

never that ive known

[12:53:37]

iamlindoro:

http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.2/qhostinfo.html#fromName

[12:53:39]

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[12:53:45]

wagnerrp:

looking at my logs, it /always/ uses the ip

[12:53:59]

wagnerrp:

meaning the only way it would display 'localhost:6543' is if he put localhost as his IP

[12:54:16]

wagnerrp:

someone want to confirm before i close and lock?

[12:54:21]

iamlindoro:

Already did

[12:54:29]

wagnerrp:

well... nevermind then, :P

[12:54:32]

iamlindoro:

:)

[12:58:02]

gbee:

we delete the odd individual setting in places, but never the whole table

[12:58:40]

gbee:

and the deletion from videodisplayprofiles is normal, it's treated as a temporary table

[12:59:03]

gbee:

and clearing inuseprograms when a frontend has gone away is again normal

[12:59:36]

kormoc:

Thus some awesome mailing list or ticket?

[12:59:47]

wagnerrp:

regardless, whatever anomalous behavior he thinks hes experiencing is likely due to having a hostname set as his backend IP

[12:59:50]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: ticket

[12:59:50]

gbee:

so really I don't see what that guy is complaining about, if he's continually losing settings then it's a mysql bug or even corruption on a bad drive

[13:01:01]

wagnerrp:

i know i had thought through this previously, and had a good reason why we need to store the IP... but for the life of me i cant remember what it was

[13:01:25]

wagnerrp:

seems we could just have a 'masterbackend' value, no data, and the hostname set for the master

[13:01:41]

wagnerrp:

and optionally allow backendserverips for any machine you want to specifically set an address

[13:01:46]

wagnerrp:

otherwise listen on all interfaces

[13:02:13]

wagnerrp:

the only reason i could think of not wanting to listen on all interfaces is if you for whatever reason want to run your backend on your firewall

[13:06:30]

sphery:

gbee: the way we change settings values is DELETE followed by INSERT

[13:06:50]

sphery:

so if you have a network failure immediately after DELETE but before INSERT...

[13:06:52]

wagnerrp:

is that for simplicity in the code?

[13:07:08]

wagnerrp:

so you dont have to manage separate UPDATEs?

[13:07:14]

sphery:

but if you have a network (or MySQL) failure, how can you expect MythTV to work???

[13:07:30]

sphery:

I don't konw why it's that way

[13:07:34]

sphery:

has been since before my time

[13:07:41]

wagnerrp:

yeah, thats the other thing i didnt get... what is a 'weak connection'

[13:07:43]

sphery:

maybe some MySQL 3.23 support thing

[13:08:07]

sphery:

wifi?

[13:08:20]

wagnerrp:

i mean i do a SELECT to determine if a value exists, and then INSERT or UPDATE accordingly

[13:08:26]

wagnerrp:

i didnt even think to do it any other way

[13:08:27]

sphery:

not that we should support wifi with spurious loss of network

[13:09:00]

sphery:

yeah, it's probably so we don't have to determine whether to insert or update and so we can use the insert code for initial insert as well as replace

[13:09:07]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, INSERT INTO settings (blah) VALUES (bleh) ON DUPLICATE KEY UPDATE data=VALUE(data)

[13:09:25]

sphery:

yeah, those weren't well supported in 3.23, right?

[13:09:32]

kormoc:

yeah, they weren't

[13:09:34]

sphery:

and some people still want to avoid MySQL extensions

[13:09:38]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: does that work for NULLs too?

[13:09:47]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, yup

[13:09:48]

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[13:09:49]

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[13:10:05]

wagnerrp:

just have to change it to 'is' instead of '='?

[13:10:17]

kormoc:

huh?

[13:10:33]

wagnerrp:

er no...

[13:10:34]

sphery:

is would be for the select, not the insert/update

[13:10:48]

wagnerrp:

i had to do special handling of NULLs because of how the python bindings handle them

[13:11:57]

wagnerrp:

yeah, i could probably cut most of these down to a single call

[13:13:59]

sphery:

the more I use it, the more I love rsync

[13:16:56]

kormoc:

Indeed, my only problem with rsync is the inability of have it do a post transfer checksum on the remote file before deleteing locally

[13:17:10]

sphery:

that would be nice

[13:17:18]

wagnerrp:

can you do that if youre running the remote daemon?

[13:17:39]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, not that I know of? but I didn't look that hard

[13:17:56]

kormoc:

I just run it thrice, once to transfer, once to verify, once to delete locally

[13:18:48]

sphery:

using a --checksum to verify? (so it doesn't fall back to the large-file-size-and-time check)

[13:18:56]

kormoc:

yup

[13:19:56]

wagnerrp:

whats the actual chance you will get a bad file over TCP?

[13:20:10]

sphery:

hmmm... from man page -> Note that rsync always verifies that each transferred file was correctly reconstructed on the receiving side by checking a whole-file checksum that is generated as the file is transferred, but that automatic after-the-transfer verification has nothing to do with this option's before-the-transfer "Does this file need to be updated?" check.

[13:21:46]

kormoc:

I've had it catch things on the second run

[13:21:48]

** kormoc shrugs **

[13:22:10]

kormoc:

I think that purely does a network check, not a magnetic media check

[13:22:25]

sphery:

ah, yeah, that makes sense

[13:22:36]

sphery:

so we know what was received and what it attempted to write was correct

[13:22:44]

sphery:

but whether it got to disk properly is unknown?

[13:22:48]

kormoc:

right

[13:23:02]

kormoc:

(the important bit imho :P )

[13:23:04]

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[13:23:05]

sphery:

I'm a "live dangerously" kind of guy

[13:23:16]

sphery:

I figure if something fails to transfer/write properly, I'll just recreate it

[13:23:34]

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[13:23:46]

kormoc:

Heh, fair 'nuff

[13:25:25]

sphery:

or, in this case, if it's good enough to get by tar xf, make install, and actually executes, then my friend will run a slightly bit-imperfect MythTV :)

[13:26:29]

kormoc:

hehe

[13:27:32]

sphery:

anyway, the bwlimit was awesome since I mis-typed the date for my cron upload compiled tar to his computer in the middle of the night when I'm not using the net

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[13:48:43]

sphery:

wagnerrp: QString server = GetSetting("MasterServerIP", "localhost");

[13:48:58]

sphery:

in libs/libmythdb/mythcorecontext.cpp +251

[13:49:05]

sphery:

so the default (if not defined) is localhost

[13:49:08]

wagnerrp:

oh? well thats all sorts of broken

[13:50:27]

sphery:

default in mythtv-setup is 127.0.0.1

[13:50:57]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: Dude has still set his mythtv-setup settings all wrong: http://www.boerkel.de/settings.png

[13:51:14]

wagnerrp:

yeah yeah... but thats on his frontend and that setting is irrelevent anyway

[13:51:24]

sphery:

heh, that's worse than what we expected

[13:51:35]

iamlindoro:

Who says it's on his frontend?

[13:51:54]

sphery:

can't have localhost/127.0.0.1 anywhere in the MythTV config if you have more than one host

[13:52:00]

iamlindoro:

exactly

[13:52:03]

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[13:52:19]

sphery:

(only place it works is in MySQL config--mysql.txt or config.xml)

[13:52:24]

wagnerrp:

the screenshot does, the machine's hostname is 'frontend'

[13:52:55]

sphery:

I think what's happening is that we lose the connection to the DB

[13:53:02]

sphery:

then the "auto-find a DB" code goes into action

[13:53:08]

sphery:

falls back to localhost

[13:53:14]

iamlindoro:

regardless of anything else on the ticket, losing connection to the backend is not supported/supportable

[13:53:15]

sphery:

and he has a mysql running on localhost

[13:53:19]

sphery:

that hasn't been configured

[13:53:24]

sphery:

so he's now using a different DB

[13:53:32]

sphery:

moral of the story: don't let MySQL die

[13:53:40]

sphery:

or don't lose network connectivity to MySQL

[13:53:41]

sphery:

or else

[13:54:01]

sphery:

if he shut down mysqld on the frontend host

[13:54:05]

wagnerrp:

anyone currently writing up a response? or should i continue with this one?

[13:54:08]

sphery:

he'd get a reasonable error message and it would exit

[13:54:13]

sphery:

I wasn't

[13:54:31]

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[13:54:35]

iamlindoro:

not I

[13:54:45]

sphery:

but if you'd like to say, "If you have mysqld running on the frontend host, please shut it down.", please do

[13:54:54]

sphery:

if not, I will respond with basically exactly that

[13:56:42]

sphery:

anyone have any thoughts on http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/8669

[13:56:59]

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[13:57:04]

sphery:

I can't figure out /any/ way to reproduce the "input is cleared immediately" issue he's seeing

[13:57:50]

iamlindoro:

He is the one hacking channel changing to pieces, so I personally would like to see him try on unmodified source and a fresh DB

[13:58:40]

sphery:

oh, really?

[13:58:43]

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[14:05:15]

hopper75:

Is there a way to get the frontend to load music from the backend? I've got video loading fine, and the front end sees the list but tries to play the path on the back end.

[14:05:45]

wagnerrp:

the music database tables are shared among all frontends

[14:05:56]

wagnerrp:

however you must manually share the files over NFS or some other network file system

[14:05:59]

hopper75:

wagnerrp: should I use nfs

[14:06:06]

hopper75:

I was just going to ask. OK, thanks

[14:06:28]

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[14:06:42]

sphery:

and must use the exact same path on all systems

[14:06:52]

gbee:

wonder if paul-h is adding storage group streaming support as part of his changes

[14:06:54]

hopper75:

yep, thanks. Very familiar with nfs.

[14:06:56]

sphery:

iamlindoro: thanks... I requested a retest on unmodified

[14:10:22]

wagnerrp:

is there a way to get trac to disallow tickets from being filed against anything but the current release and develoment version?

[14:11:29]

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[14:12:12]

sphery:

that would be nice

[14:12:31]

gbee:

wagnerrp: we can remove the old versions from the list, but that won't necessarily stop anyone opening tickets for an older version

[14:12:32]

sphery:

though I would guess that some would just file them against whatever version they can (or none)

[14:12:47]

gbee:

I did clean up that list a few months ago

[14:15:22]

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[14:16:00]

gbee:

ok, removed 0.21 through 0.23 rc 3

[14:16:43]

gbee:

but I've added 0.23.0 to differentiate it from -fixes

[14:16:53]

wagnerrp:

i just mention that since if were not going to patch issues with older versions, no sense opening tickets on older versions

[14:17:27]

gbee:

yeah, it's a good point

[14:19:59]

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[14:22:27]

sphery:

So, is http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MythTV_distros of any value? http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Packages seems /much/ better.

[14:23:20]

sphery:

and the Gentoo guys can add theirs to the Packages page and LinuxMCE, well, they can do their own wiki :)

[14:24:40]

sphery:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/External_Links also needs some serious love

[14:24:45]

sphery:

(or deletion)

[14:25:13]

sphery:

but External links is ref'ed on http://www.mythtv.org/download , so...

[14:25:34]

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[14:27:26]

sphery:

heh, [mythtv-users] MythMusic FF/Rew Skip Length ... I'd guess someone is listening to MythTVCast

[14:28:21]

gbee:

http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/report/2 << Mucho triage necessito

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[14:30:57]

messerting:

I've got an IR receiver and IR transmitter, and would like to set up a "passthru" or "repeater", but couldn't find much on the net. Anyone knows the magic keywords for google...?

[14:31:28]

wagnerrp:

'pain'? 'masochism'?

[14:31:48]

messerting:

wagnerrp: ah, so, not straight forward I guess...

[14:32:07]

wagnerrp:

the only reason i could think you would want to pass through IR signals directly is if you want to route through to another room

[14:32:28]

wagnerrp:

nearly always, that means someone wants to route VOD from their cable box through mythtv

[14:32:30]

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[14:32:42]

messerting:

Well, there is this WAF thing. Things must be hidden.

[14:32:48]

rossand:

if that's what you're after, there are IR to radio to IR bridges.

[14:33:19]

wagnerrp:

you want to stuff everything in a hidden cabinet, with only a single receiver visible?

[14:33:21]

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[14:33:38]

messerting:

yep

[14:34:03]

wagnerrp:

you can probably build a simple circuit to do that with maybe $15 worth of electronics

[14:34:49]

messerting:

ok, I guess I'll do that if lirc isn't up for the challenge

[14:35:00]

wagnerrp:

http://www.cedarnet.org/smartware/Hardware/IR_Repeater

[14:35:09]

wagnerrp:

LIRC could probably do it

[14:35:12]

gbee:

assuming you can solder, you might spend a little more and buy something ready made

[14:35:16]

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[14:35:36]

** gbee can't solder to save his life, never been taught **

[14:35:37]

wagnerrp:

i was saying trying to manipulate menus on your STB through mythtv's buffer lag would be masochistic

[14:35:41]

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[14:35:53]

messerting:

I can solder – made my own IR receiver once :)

[14:36:49]

messerting:

wagnerrp: well, in fact, I am also planning to get rid of that STB, and run everything through MythTV

[14:37:18]

messerting:

but that will be hard, as I've got IPTV. And probably this part of the conversation stops here... ;)

[14:37:56]

wagnerrp:

certainly not, assuming youre planning on using a format supported by mythtv's IPTV tuner

[14:37:57]

messerting:

(I'm from Norway, this stuff is legal here, but I respect the channel politics in here too)

[14:38:00]

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[14:38:57]

messerting:

well, I have contacted the help desk of my TV provider, but they couldn't answer a thing

[14:39:14]

messerting:

guess I have some ethernet sniffing to do

[14:40:00]

wagnerrp:

it they just use basic unencrypted multicasting, youre set

[14:40:16]

wagnerrp:

figure out the channels, whip up a playlist, and youre done

[14:40:27]

messerting:

wow – I really wish

[14:40:43]

messerting:

there is no smartcard involved at least

[14:40:59]

wagnerrp:

if theyre using any form of encryption, well then youre probably done at that point too

[14:41:21]

messerting:

do I need a dedicated NIC for the IPTV on my backend?

[14:41:22]

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[14:41:29]

johnnyj:

is kormoc around?

[14:41:48]

wagnerrp:

some systems are keyed off the MAC address

[14:41:55]

wagnerrp:

you may need to spoof the address of your STB

[14:42:18]

messerting:

aha, I guess that should be easy

[14:42:32]

messerting:

I've got a dedicated NIC I can use

[14:48:20]

johnnyj:

is there a way to look at commits on just one file in trac?

[14:49:25]

Beirdo:

I'm sure there is

[14:49:45]

wagnerrp:

go into the file, and go to the revision log in the upper right corner

[14:50:05]

johnnyj:

oh thanks

[14:50:12]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: you giving away secrets again? :)

[14:50:16]

Beirdo:

hehe

[14:50:24]

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[14:56:33]

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[15:00:59]

johnnyj:

yay – it's sort of building

[15:02:20]

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[15:02:55]

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[15:04:06]

benny_:

Hi – using MythBuntu weekly builds trunk25379 – just wondering if anyone knows where the /usr/share/mythtv/metadata/Movie/tmdb.py has been gone, it's not installed anymore

[15:04:20]

benny_:

-- this may be a MythBuntu specific issue

[15:04:30]

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[15:04:38]

wagnerrp:

thats not where that file is located

[15:04:46]

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[15:04:46]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v gbee

[15:04:50]

wagnerrp:

oh, trunk

[15:04:52]

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[15:04:55]

wagnerrp:

yes, thats where that file should be

[15:04:55]

** Beirdo yawns **

[15:05:01]

iamlindoro:

Speak to your packagers, it's not moved

[15:05:16]

Beirdo:

speak to the finger?

[15:05:35]

wagnerrp:

that would be 'packers'

[15:05:36]

Beirdo:

hmmm

[15:05:43]

Beirdo:

I wonder...

[15:05:53]

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[15:05:58]

Beirdo:

does ccache behave well with git branching...

[15:06:28]

benny_:

No chance that a MythBuntu-packager is here ?

[15:06:32]

Beirdo:

I hope so, as then it will drastically speed up any multi-branch compiling... i.e. switching from one to another

[15:06:37]

Beirdo:

benny_: #mythbuntu

[15:07:12]

benny_:

Beirdo: thanks' i'll try that channel

[15:07:47]

Beirdo:

they SHOULD be there :)

[15:07:54]

Beirdo:

after all, it's their channel

[15:08:58]

benny_:

by the way, in the latest trunk, I see that is no longer possible to search metadata by entering the title of the movie

[15:09:05]

benny_:

or am I missing something ?

[15:09:19]

wagnerrp:

you can still do that for movies

[15:09:28]

wagnerrp:

tv shows need title, season, and episode

[15:10:40]

iamlindoro:

There was no point in maintaining a custom popup to enter the number, and a custom popup to enter the title, and a custom search for title+subtitle-- all that information is editable in the edit metadta dialog-- modify the data there, and download metadata

[15:11:26]

benny_:

and if it don't make an exact match I got a list to choose one (?)

[15:11:30]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: Think he means the one-off legacy popups to *just* enter inetref, and the custom one *just* for title... which I decided were dumb since it's just a subset of the data in the edit metadata dialog

[15:11:36]

gbee:

benny_: yes

[15:12:04]

** wagnerrp has been away from trunk too long, and cant properly lend assistance... **

[15:12:14]

benny_:

Ok, I see, I guess i just need the tmdb.py script running ...

[15:12:31]

iamlindoro:

Yes, the script is required to do any metadata grabbing

[15:12:42]

iamlindoro:

s/script/script(s)/

[15:13:17]

benny_:

I would be nice if maybe some error popup if the script fails ... (or for example does not exist) ...

[15:13:44]

Beirdo:

ahhh. #8616. That might just fix the annoyance I've seen in mythweb

[15:14:01]

Beirdo:

never got around to reporting it, but looks like someone did, and fixed it

[15:15:16]

benny_:

to install the script manually, it's enough to copy it just from SVN ?

[15:17:09]

iamlindoro:

It would need proper permissions and to be set executable, and you would need to be sure you had the supporting python bindings

[15:17:40]

iamlindoro:

If you are running trunk and these are question you need to ask, though, I would strongly recommend asking your packager to fix it

[15:18:02]

iamlindoro:

As generally speaking trunk is run with no guarantee-- it's hard enough to provide support for our releases, let alone people who want to live on the edge

[15:18:37]

benny_:

I've already sent a msg on the #mythbuntu, but I would also like to try it out now ...

[15:18:50]

iamlindoro:

eg, you should have known about the changes to metadata grabbing as trunk users are required to be following the commits mailing list religiously

[15:19:16]

Beirdo:

iamlindoro: wow... a perl script?

[15:19:24]

iamlindoro:

Beirdo: which, the grabber?

[15:19:27]

gbee:

ok, that's the strangest match yet, I grabbed a problematic sample from a ticket called 'thvvek' and mythvideo automatically grabbed metadata for Doctor Zhivago (1965)

[15:19:29]

Beirdo:

yeah :)

[15:19:35]

Beirdo:

You surprise me :)

[15:19:41]

iamlindoro:

Beirdo: Wasn't written by me

[15:19:46]

Beirdo:

next thing you know, I'll end up committing python :)

[15:19:48]

Beirdo:

heh

[15:19:52]

Beirdo:

yeah, I realize that

[15:19:53]

benny_:

I'm not using trunk-version expecting that everything will work

[15:20:27]

benny_:

I like experimenting and see what's going on

[15:20:57]

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[15:22:03]

iamlindoro:

benny_: If you are not following the commit and dev lists, you will need to get all of your support from your packager-- we require that people follow those lists and be current on changes in trunk to provide them any support

[15:22:44]

benny_:

actually by copying the tmdb.py from trunk it works

[15:23:09]

iamlindoro:

Nobody said otherwise

[15:23:10]

benny_:

iamlindoro: I follow the commit logs everyday, and I also look into sources when I have time

[15:23:28]

** Beirdo waits... and waits... **

[15:23:37]

Beirdo:

come on ccache, finish compiling :)

[15:25:18]

** gbee ♥ ccahe **

[15:25:19]

wagnerrp:

if only you had ccache installed to speed up off the previous compile...

[15:25:42]

Beirdo:

yeah, I'm compiling mythtv... using ccache

[15:26:04]

Beirdo:

first time in this particular directory tree... so it's taking an age and a half

[15:26:32]

wagnerrp:

i usually just tell the system to update, and go to sleep

[15:27:49]

wagnerrp:

wake up, cycle disk images reboot, and im done

[15:27:57]

sphery:

So, about /etc/ssh/sshd_config 's UseDNS setting... Any security issues disabling that?

[15:28:20]

** sphery hates waiting 10–30s for a DNS timeout with each and every svn command.... **

[15:29:20]

wagnerrp:

svn into... your local repository?

[15:30:24]

sphery:

svn into the server's repo

[15:30:34]

sphery:

svn+ssh

[15:30:51]

wagnerrp:

so you want to change the setting on the mythtv public server itself

[15:30:58]

sphery:

yeah

[15:31:26]

sphery:

basically, if you do a reverse DNS lookup on any dynamic IP my ISP provides, it won't respond at all, so it times out

[15:31:54]

sphery:

and that means I have to wait 10–30s for each ssh connection to the server while it does reverse DNS to make sure I'm the host I claim to be

[15:32:45]

sphery:

and I'm sure I'm littering the server logs with: sshd[26714]: reverse mapping checking getaddrinfo for user-xxxxxxx.cable.mindspring.com [xx.xx.xx.xx] failed – POSSIBLE BREAK-IN ATTEMPT!

[15:33:01]

sphery:

since reverse mapping won't work for my IP addresses

[15:33:16]

sphery:

but I'm not breaking it, I promise

[15:33:21]

sphery:

breaking in

[15:33:24]

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[15:33:33]

iamlindoro:

Sure you aren't, Mitnick

[15:33:56]

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[15:34:29]

sphery:

heh

[15:38:58]

gbee:

you needn't have blanked out the ip/userid btw, since that information is available to every here in the channel with you ;)

[15:39:05]

gbee:

everyone

[15:41:41]

gbee:

maybe we should get MythTV cloaks for the devs

[15:42:22]

sphery:

heh

[15:42:27]

gbee:

means designating someone the contact and that person being available to answer a phone call from Freenode staff

[15:42:27]

sphery:

I wouldn't mind a cloak

[15:42:52]

** wagnerrp wants a robe **

[15:42:54]

sphery:

just haven't gotten an itch great enough to scratch with the recommended donation for requesting an unaffiliated cloak

[15:42:58]

wagnerrp:

and a wizard hat

[15:43:03]

sphery:

red velour?

[15:43:17]

sphery:

I want a hooded cloak

[15:43:25]

gbee:

puns about wands will reset in a 10 minute ban

[15:43:36]

gbee:

result, damn I'm tired

[15:43:47]

sphery:

but, I figure blanking out the user ID/IP keeps it out of the permanent logs

[15:44:04]

jamesd2:

can i get an invisibility cloak just like harry?

[15:44:21]

sphery:

gbee: until there's LIRC support, no one will talk about wands in here... http://www.thewandcompany.com/

[15:44:27]

gbee:

sphery: yeah, except for the join/part messages

[15:44:29]

sphery:

(that /is/ a "TV" remote)

[15:44:34]

wagnerrp:

dresden >>> potter...

[15:44:37]

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[15:44:48]

sphery:

yeah, and if someone were persistent enough, they'd find that my IP almost never changes...

[15:46:49]

AndyCap:

sphery: not a http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_JOn4qp7SpVA/S5qZ02G . . . gma+Coat.jpg

[15:47:14]

sphery:

oh, fancy

[15:47:35]

sphery:

though I think that leather might be really hot when I'm sneaking around and thieving

[15:50:45]

AndyCap:

looks more like its suited for lurking around stonehenge or something in cold english fall

[15:51:10]

sphery:

ah, yeah... not really good for Florida-henge

[15:51:23]

gbee:

*tsk* autumn

[15:51:36]

AndyCap:

what was I thinking

[15:51:56]

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[15:52:18]

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[15:59:12]

wagnerrp:

AndyCap: The Matrix meets illuminati?

[15:59:45]

AndyCap:

Heh, no idea where the enigma coat is from and I can't reach abbyshot from here

[16:01:13]

gbee:

looks like something from the wardrobe department on Equilibrium

[16:01:40]

wagnerrp:

i dont recall large amounts of leather in that movie, or hoods for that matter

[16:04:21]

johnnyj:

hey we don't like "me too's" in the tickets – but how would i add notes to the http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/8579 to indicate the scope shoudl include Intel Mac's on 10.5 too?

[16:04:33]

AndyCap:

wagnerrp: except when walking to get incinerated

[16:05:30]

johnnyj:

nevermind – it's already noted

[16:06:02]

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[16:07:05]

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[16:07:56]

sphery:

johnnyj: so your solution was to go back in time 5 weeks and submit an anonymous post?

[16:08:17]

wagnerrp:

that takes skill right ther

[16:08:20]

johnnyj:

sphery: it was to re-read the ticket

[16:08:41]

johnnyj:

wagnerrp: warping the STC really takes it out of me though

[16:09:32]

wagnerrp:

continuum?

[16:09:46]

wagnerrp:

there is no continuum

[16:09:47]

johnnyj:

space time, yeah

[16:10:45]

sphery:

johnnyj, you're my Hiro

[16:12:19]

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[16:13:10]

sphery:

wagnerrp: how do you change DNS timeout?

[16:13:18]

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[16:13:56]

wagnerrp:

dont know, thats just the default time out on mine

[16:13:59]

sphery:

oh

[16:14:04]

sphery:

BSD?

[16:14:08]

wagnerrp:

yeah

[16:14:18]

sphery:

with glibc?

[16:14:27]

wagnerrp:

couldnt tell you

[16:14:40]

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[16:14:54]

Beirdo:

hehe

[16:15:15]

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[16:15:18]

Beirdo:

there might be something in /proc/sys, but I won't guarantee it

[16:16:25]

** Beirdo rips AC/DC – Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap... onto his computer in case he scratches the $#$*ing CD **

[16:16:30]

sphery:

options timeout:0.3\nretry:1 in /etc/resolv.conf

[16:16:35]

sphery:

or soemthing

[16:16:53]

sphery:

never knew it was configurable

[16:17:00]

Beirdo:

not surprised it is

[16:17:07]

sphery:

true

[16:17:53]

Beirdo:

something like that might make it more bearable should people require the silly UseDNS setting

[16:17:53]

sphery:

seems on my local system it's only about 5s (default for resolv.conf, and I dont have any fallback servers, so it's only one timeout). Option is silently capped to 30s.

[16:18:08]

Beirdo:

why not just call it "SpamUselessLogMessages"

[16:18:17]

sphery:

if yours is 15s, Beirdo , you probably have a couple of name servers

[16:18:23]

Beirdo:

yeah

[16:18:27]

sphery:

and wagnerrp could have many or a timeout specified

[16:18:27]

Beirdo:

3 in fact :)

[16:18:36]

sphery:

hey, 3 x 5 = 15...

[16:18:36]

sphery:

wow

[16:18:39]

Beirdo:

localhost -> google -> google

[16:18:40]

sphery:

it works

[16:18:54]

Beirdo:

and if my link is down...

[16:18:57]

sphery:

I'm thinking of changing my caching name server to hit google's

[16:19:02]

wagnerrp:

last time i had it enabled, i had my ISP's name server specified only

[16:19:23]

sphery:

maybe it's some bsdism :)

[16:19:52]

Beirdo:

yeah, I point bind9 directly to google as a forwarder... and then use them as a backup resolver should my cache not be running

[16:20:03]

sphery:

yeah, that's a good approach

[16:20:23]

wagnerrp:

but then google knows everything you access

[16:20:23]

sphery:

I have a single bind9 running on my internal network and all my hosts use it

[16:20:27]

** wagnerrp puts on tin cap **

[16:20:31]

sphery:

but if it's down...

[16:20:42]

Beirdo:

yup

[16:20:49]

sphery:

google already knows everything everyone accesses

[16:21:02]

Beirdo:

which is why I add the resolvers to resolv.conf after local

[16:21:13]

wagnerrp:

my bind9 server hasnt gone down in....

[16:21:17]

wagnerrp:

wow, 158 days

[16:21:22]

Beirdo:

hehe

[16:21:28]

Beirdo:

I like bind9

[16:21:34]

Beirdo:

no djbdns crud for me

[16:21:44]

sphery:

I've got 30 days... power outage

[16:21:54]

sphery:

I hated dj*, too

[16:22:00]

Beirdo:

oooooooh, 1976 AC/DC

[16:22:08]

wagnerrp:

5 months ago was probably when i replaced the UPS

[16:22:37]

Beirdo:

this music is almost as old as I am. Scary :)

[16:23:06]

wagnerrp:

apparently the singer is a great amateur racer

[16:23:22]

Beirdo:

the one singing this is dead...

[16:23:32]

Beirdo:

the NEW singer, perhaps :)

[16:23:35]

wagnerrp:

ok, the new one... angus something

[16:23:38]

wagnerrp:

young?

[16:23:39]

Beirdo:

pretty sure this is Bon Scott

[16:23:49]

Beirdo:

sounds right

[16:24:04]

sphery:

there it is...

[16:24:18]

sphery:

was trying to find the picture so I can prove that google knows everything everyone accesses: http://gizmodo.com/5517041/googles-insane-num . . . s-visualized

[16:24:28]

wagnerrp:

scored #2 on top gear's celebrity time trials

[16:24:35]

wagnerrp:

down by a tenth of a second or something

[16:24:38]

Beirdo:

sphery: wow

[16:24:46]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: thanks for the reminder.

[16:24:53]

** Beirdo wanders off to add Top Gear to myth **

[16:24:54]

wagnerrp:

?

[16:24:58]

wagnerrp:

oh

[16:25:28]

wagnerrp:

now what is intel doing with those systems?

[16:25:50]

wagnerrp:

winder what the utilization is on those things

[16:26:00]

sphery:

good question

[16:26:08]

wagnerrp:

i mean does intel just have those for testing and demo systems?

[16:26:14]

sphery:

check out akamai, too

[16:26:30]

wagnerrp:

well akamai makes sense

[16:26:31]

sphery:

I mean, the idea behind them is to have servers everywhere so everyone can have a quick download of a file

[16:26:33]

wagnerrp:

intel, not so much

[16:26:38]

sphery:

and it's nothing compared to Google

[16:26:57]

wagnerrp:

akamai is just serving static content

[16:27:01]

wagnerrp:

no real power needed

[16:27:06]

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[16:27:10]

wagnerrp:

just disk space and gobs of bandwidth

[16:27:18]

sphery:

true

[16:27:57]

wagnerrp:

'a full 47% is off transcoding youtube and google video'

[16:28:19]

Beirdo:

... Ahhh... AC/DC – Big Balls

[16:28:46]

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[16:28:49]

Beirdo:

I FINALLY can replace my glitchy rip :)

[16:29:02]

wagnerrp:

inordkuo: have you got big balls?

[16:29:08]

Beirdo:

this is a Grade 4 song for me...

[16:29:32]

Beirdo:

it had been out for a few years by then, but not THAT terribly long

[16:30:32]

wagnerrp:

grade 4 stuff for me would be... nirvana

[16:30:57]

Beirdo:

well, this came out the year before I was in Kindergarten

[16:31:00]

Beirdo:

so..

[16:34:20]

wagnerrp:

ive got a friend who loathes AC/DC

[16:34:37]

Beirdo:

heh

[16:34:39]

Beirdo:

yeah well

[16:34:45]

Beirdo:

I have one who can't stand U2

[16:35:06]

wagnerrp:

he works for a company that makes equipment to stream Sirius into businesses, background music

[16:35:29]

Beirdo:

hehe

[16:35:40]

wagnerrp:

someone had one of their systems on in the office, playing the AC/DC channel for a couple months straight

[16:35:49]

wagnerrp:

he finally got fed up and cut the antenna lead

[16:35:54]

Beirdo:

but my anti-U2 friend is from Ohio, so that's probably his problem

[16:36:05]

Beirdo:

OMG. I'd play smashy smashy!

[16:36:19]

Beirdo:

AC/DC is OK in small doses

[16:36:24]

wagnerrp:

he hates pink floyd for similar reasons

[16:36:35]

Beirdo:

all day every day... is a good reason for C4

[16:36:39]

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[16:37:00]

wagnerrp:

like the guy who listened to ozzy osbourne and then killed himself

[16:37:28]

Beirdo:

heh, too much Ozzy will send ya crazy

[16:37:30]

wagnerrp:

they interviewed ozzy about it, and he said that was a great album but if he had listened to it for 23 hours straight, he would blow his head off too

[16:37:45]

Beirdo:

there ya go

[16:38:02]

AndyCap:

"When I listen to my records backwards, I hear this voice; your life is useless, kill yourself, your life is useless, kill yourself." "ooh, so it's like a hidden message?"

[16:38:12]

AndyCap:

no it was my mum.

[16:38:55]

wagnerrp:

theyre coming for you

[16:38:57]

wagnerrp:

kill them all

[16:43:00]

Beirdo:

argh

[16:43:03]

Beirdo:

exim must die

[16:44:41]

sphery:

which is your pref?

[16:45:08]

Beirdo:

postfix :)

[16:45:16]

sphery:

I have sendmail

[16:45:23]

Beirdo:

hehe, I used to use sendmail

[16:45:41]

Beirdo:

one of the few people at a former employer who could read/write/fix sendmail.cf

[16:45:46]

sphery:

yeah, everyone says postfix is much easier... but since I already "know" (as much as one can know) sendmail...

[16:46:18]

sphery:

if I switched it would be to postfix

[16:46:23]

Beirdo:

the mythbox is getting "apt-get install postfix"

[16:46:28]

Beirdo:

screw exim very much

[16:48:08]

kormoc:

ssmtp for my mythbox and friends

[16:48:20]

kormoc:

no need for a full daemon

[16:48:33]

Beirdo:

fair enough, but just one more thing to learn

[16:48:34]

Beirdo:

:)

[16:49:01]

Beirdo:

and I will NOT use qmail.

[16:49:03]

Beirdo:

djb--

[16:49:28]

Beirdo:

too bad Linus already used the name "git"

[16:49:43]

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[16:49:46]

Beirdo:

that would be a good collective name for djb stuff... gitdns, gitmail

[16:50:25]

sphery:

http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/djb

[16:50:55]

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[16:51:19]

sphery:

it's on the Internet so it must be true

[16:53:55]

** wagnerrp has never heard of djb **

[16:54:07]

** J-e-f-f-A hasn't either. **

[16:54:18]

sphery:

I only have through djbdns and qmail--which I decided I didn't want to use :)

[16:54:23]

kormoc:

ALL YOU NONBELIEVERS MUST DIE!

[16:55:03]

wagnerrp:

thats not a bug, thats an intended consequence of running my software

[16:55:06]

sphery:

I think he's the one on the top right: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/35 . . . ainBears.JPG

[16:55:15]

wagnerrp:

ive decided to change the intended behavior in the next release

[16:55:15]

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[16:55:48]

Beirdo:

hehe

[17:00:40]

wagnerrp:

gah.... more people wanting to run their production backend in a VM

[17:00:52]

J-e-f-f-A:

wagnerrp: and on an Atom!

[17:01:10]

wagnerrp:

an atom230...

[17:01:29]

Beirdo:

mmm, Atom :)

[17:01:52]

wagnerrp:

not even a model with VT-x

[17:01:56]

gbee:

wagnerrp: you've obviously not heard, VMs are the answer to everything, even when you never had a question to begin with

[17:02:08]

wagnerrp:

what does that like, halve the performance of that system?

[17:02:16]

Beirdo:

heh

[17:02:23]

wagnerrp:

you may as well dumpster dive for an old P3

[17:02:27]

wagnerrp:

youll end up better off

[17:02:34]

Beirdo:

Atom isn't THAT bad

[17:02:41]

Beirdo:

you're exaggerating again :)

[17:02:57]

kormoc:

I don't get why one would get one

[17:02:58]

wagnerrp:

an atom, running a VM, with no hardware acceleration is.. that... bad...

[17:03:16]

Beirdo:

heh, if xen weren't totally passe, I'd try it

[17:03:31]

wagnerrp:

why? what would a VM get you?

[17:03:31]

justinh:

yeah cos mythbackend is like so unstable, that er... hmmm. er... ummmm

[17:03:43]

Beirdo:

not necessarily for myth :)

[17:03:47]

kormoc:

a ion platform with dvd is ~$475, a mac mini is ~$675, seems that the mini is the much better choice

[17:04:03]

Beirdo:

but one thing it would do for myth... allow easier development NOT on the production host

[17:04:29]

J-e-f-f-A:

Who would want to compile myth on an Atom???

[17:04:47]

Beirdo:

OMG

[17:04:52]

Beirdo:

you people need to get a clue :)

[17:04:54]

Beirdo:

hhe

[17:05:01]

wagnerrp:

i do development on a (nearly zero overhead) jail

[17:05:15]

johnnyj:

wagnerrp: how does that work?

[17:05:15]

wagnerrp:

the only thing i cant do with it is run UPNP, because of the way the network is set up

[17:05:19]

Beirdo:

with the proliferation of Atom boxes with vdpau-enabled and vaapi-enabled GPUs...

[17:05:30]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: yeah, but yer special :)

[17:05:42]

kormoc:

Beirdo, proliferation of overpriced atom boxes....

[17:05:53]

Beirdo:

I do dev by installing the dev version into a different prefix

[17:06:13]

Beirdo:

kormoc: well, yeah, many of them are not worth the bucks

[17:06:21]

kormoc:

if it's less then 1/3 the cost to upgrade to a direct from apple newest mac mini, it seems silly to go so low powered

[17:06:22]

wagnerrp:

johnnyj: works great, ive got a full system install to play with, its on a zfs volume i can snapshot/clone/rollback at will

[17:06:25]

justinh:

muh, but it's ATOM!

[17:06:30]

justinh:

a t o m :D

[17:06:36]

wagnerrp:

its in isolated memory, isolated process table, dedicated network address

[17:06:41]

justinh:

I read on some guy's blog that atoms rock

[17:06:51]

Beirdo:

but still, a little atom-based box for $250 that would do it all, and just needs a hard drive... makes for a nice frontend if nothing else

[17:06:59]

Beirdo:

makes a really nice little firewall box

[17:07:02]

wagnerrp:

the only thing i cant do that a normal VM could is run a separate kernel specifically for that image

[17:07:03]

kormoc:

Beirdo, no optical drive

[17:07:11]

Beirdo:

yeah.

[17:07:24]

Beirdo:

I tend to keep that stuff on purpose-made hardware anyways

[17:07:25]

kormoc:

Beirdo, the cheapest ion I could find with optical was $475 and still needed ram

[17:07:33]

Beirdo:

oh jeez

[17:07:43]

Beirdo:

yeah, that's a bit much

[17:07:54]

justinh:

ye can have a real CPU for that kinda money

[17:07:58]

kormoc:

hence why I say the mac mini is still the best choice for a light frontend

[17:08:00]

justinh:

like a *real* real CPU

[17:08:07]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: ive seen them on ebay for as little as $200

[17:08:12]

wagnerrp:

not ebay, newegg

[17:08:12]

Beirdo:

kormoc: yeah, I think you have a good point there :)

[17:08:18]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, not with optical

[17:08:34]

justinh:

wish we had dollar prices for mac stuff here

[17:08:44]

Beirdo:

my firewall box was $169 plus a disk plus ram... but not ION... and no optical

[17:08:55]

justinh:

your $mac mini price is like £awooga

[17:09:23]

sphery:

justinh: I know this guy, Milo, who can get you a good deal on anything you need. He takes a loss on every sale, but he makes up for it in volume.

[17:09:30]

wagnerrp:

true, but i personally wouldnt want optical

[17:09:34]

justinh:

lol

[17:09:36]

johnnyj:

sphery: ha

[17:09:54]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: yeah, I hear ya. the ION one was just a touch more

[17:10:04]

Beirdo:

$199, I think, plus disk plus ram

[17:10:13]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, I like being able to pop in a dvd and play

[17:10:25]

Beirdo:

but if ya want optical... not so great :)

[17:10:33]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: ive got a dvd player for that

[17:10:41]

Beirdo:

or a bluray :)

[17:11:07]

Beirdo:

but I do understand the desire to minimize box count :)

[17:11:46]

Beirdo:

OK, is the dude who put in #8678 around on IRC?

[17:13:02]

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[17:15:54]

** johnnyj checks his claim ticket **

[17:16:00]

justinh:

ooo, got a new test card for my collection in 'Outnumbered'. some kind of tx fault

[17:19:36]

Beirdo:

johnnyj: UPnP/DLNA with Samsung Galaxy

[17:19:44]

Beirdo:

sorry, shoulda been more specific :)

[17:21:14]

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[17:26:52]

justinh:

http://yfrog.com/4vzomp

[17:26:55]

justinh:

woohoo

[17:27:50]

wagnerrp:

?

[17:28:33]

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[17:29:40]

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[17:32:17]

** sphery considers switching his mythlink.pl to use MythTV System Events **

[17:32:34]

wagnerrp:

cant you already do that?

[17:32:43]

sphery:

not until I figure out how

[17:32:59]

wagnerrp:

have it fire on a 'recording started' event

[17:33:03]

sphery:

it's the changing the script I've been running in cron for years to a different approach that I have to work on

[17:33:08]

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[17:33:10]

wagnerrp:

you should be able to use the same exact command line as the previous user job

[17:33:34]

sphery:

yeah, truth be told, I wrote up the "docs" on how to do it: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Mythlink.pl#Using_ . . . ystem_Events (but I still don't know how to do it)

[17:33:35]

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[17:33:38]

wagnerrp:

that takes --chanid and --starttime arguments doesnt it?

[17:33:48]

sphery:

so this would allow me to figure it out

[17:34:01]

sphery:

and then fix any errors in my initial docs

[17:34:26]

wagnerrp:

just go into the settings on that host, and set that event to 'mythlink.pl --format <some format> --chanid %CHANID% --starttime %STARTTIME%

[17:35:26]

wagnerrp:

that reminds me, the python stuff has pretty much stabilized for this next release, i should get all those little scripts back in working order

[17:35:39]

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[17:44:51]

sphery:

wagnerrp: would the cablecard hdhr have one or 2 cablecards?

[17:45:05]

wagnerrp:

one multi-stream card

[17:45:43]

sphery:

oh, cool

[17:45:50]

sphery:

just wondered

[17:45:58]

sphery:

this is interesting: http://mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-users/2010-July/293388.html

[17:46:06]

wagnerrp:

i think the m-cards can handle up to 6 streams

[17:46:20]

sphery:

cool

[17:46:36]

sphery:

and--in practice--are they actually cheaper than STB rentals?

[17:46:50]

sphery:

I'd guess that the cable co would make them about equivalent

[17:46:52]

wagnerrp:

i think theyre a couple bucks

[17:47:00]

wagnerrp:

instead of 2x10+/mo

[17:47:09]

sphery:

wow

[17:47:13]

wagnerrp:

maybe only $4-$5/mo

[17:47:25]

wagnerrp:

2x$10/mo for a pair of cable boxes

[17:47:42]

sphery:

http://www.twc-sa.com/ccfaqs.htm

[17:47:45]

sphery:

The CableCARD will cost $1.75 to lease per month as opposed to $6.95/ month that we are currently charging for a DHCT

[17:47:50]

sphery:

don't know where sa is

[17:48:10]

wagnerrp:

so $15/mo savings, youll have recouped the cost in a year and a half, and likely have a more reliable tuner

[17:48:14]

sphery:

san antonio

[17:48:15]

wagnerrp:

san antonio?

[17:48:18]

sphery:

yeah

[17:48:31]

sphery:

yeah, sounds like a great thing

[17:48:41]

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[17:48:42]

wagnerrp:

that seems awful cheap, i was paying $8/mo a couple years ago at my apartment

[17:48:48]

sphery:

but you may not get all your channels because of the copy freely

[17:48:51]

wagnerrp:

for a standard def, dvr-less digital cable box

[17:49:02]

wagnerrp:

sphery: thats the problem, you may get nothing

[17:49:06]

sphery:

yeah, might be an old page

[17:49:11]

sphery:

just did a google search

[17:49:18]

wagnerrp:

in which case, i dont know if you would even get the clear QAM channels

[17:49:21]

sphery:

still, seems cheaper than their boxes

[17:49:28]

sphery:

yeah, will be interesting to see

[17:49:37]

wagnerrp:

where as the STBs will at least allow analog capture off your 150s or HDPVRs

[17:49:39]

wagnerrp:

as a fall back

[17:49:44]

sphery:

one of the guys mentioned he had to upgrade to the top lineup to even find a copy freely channel for testing

[17:50:21]

sphery:

right, analog is probably still the best way to work with cable, but...

[17:50:43]

johnnyj:

sphery: what do they call that?

[17:50:53]

sphery:

call which?

[17:51:03]

johnnyj:

recording over analog

[17:51:11]

wagnerrp:

capture?

[17:51:28]

sphery:

yeah, sounds good to me

[17:51:30]

sphery:

or encoding

[17:51:52]

wagnerrp:

i know a certain group wants to call it theft

[17:51:53]

sphery:

(depending on device)

[17:51:58]

sphery:

heh, yeah

[17:52:01]

johnnyj:

nah – it's the analog hole

[17:52:07]

sphery:

ah, yeah, analog hole

[17:52:17]

sphery:

there seems to be a hole lot of names for it

[17:52:49]

wagnerrp:

generally by people who need their own analog hole plugged

[17:52:52]

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[17:53:38]

sphery:

wagnerrp: was an old page: http://www.timewarnercable.com/SanAntonio/sup . . . blecard.html

[17:53:43]

sphery:

$2.73, now

[17:53:49]

wagnerrp:

and the boxes?

[17:54:05]

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[17:54:12]

sphery:

wonder if the HDHR is "tru2way"

[17:54:37]

wagnerrp:

centon... thats who i was thinking of that is doing a 6-stream card

[17:55:17]

sphery:

no idea how much the boxes cost

[17:55:22]

sphery:

they don't seem to want to tell you

[17:56:41]

sphery:

I don't have an address in SA, so I can't get the pricing

[17:58:05]

sphery:

mythlink.sh %CHANID% %STARTTIME%

[17:58:08]

sphery:

wow, that's easy

[17:58:37]

sphery:

(mythlink.sh calls mythlink.pl 5 times--creating multiple, differently-sorted views showing different information about recordings)

[17:58:48]

sphery:

don't know why I waited so long to do this

[17:59:02]

sphery:

oh, yeah, because right after I set up 0.23-fixes, I had family visit for 2 weeks

[17:59:03]

kormoc:

sphery, 6763 Culebra Road, San Antonio, TX 78238

[17:59:05]

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[17:59:58]

sphery:

Error: The action you just attempted to take cannot be completed online. Please either contact Time Warner Cable customer

[18:00:01]

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[18:00:01]

sphery:

service at the number below or complete the form below and click "Submit" and we will contact you to continue with

[18:00:04]

sphery:

your order.

[18:00:05]

sphery:

oops.. thought that was one line

[18:00:10]

sphery:

Now they're after me.

[18:00:12]

kormoc:

Bah

[18:00:16]

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[18:00:29]

kormoc:

(That was the address of time warner in SA, figured that'd work)

[18:00:34]

sphery:

lol

[18:00:38]

sphery:

that's funny

[18:00:45]

sphery:

maybe they don't provide service there

[18:01:01]

kormoc:

heh, that'd be great if that was the case

[18:01:48]

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[18:02:10]

sphery:

wow, AT&T U-verse no longer tells me my address doesn't exist. They now say, "Currently, AT&T U-verse service isn't available for ..."

[18:02:25]

sphery:

glad that I'm now part of the world, again--even if I can't get faster Internet

[18:05:48]

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[18:24:42]

wagnerrp:

uverse fast?

[18:25:05]

wagnerrp:

maybe if you arent simultaneously pulling your 6mbps HD streams

[18:26:14]

sphery:

heh, well I wouldn't get anything except internet from them

[18:26:26]

sphery:

and it's fast compared to my cable co's

[18:27:42]

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[18:37:04]

sphery:

strange... running mythlink.pl on a single recording at a time isn't any faster than redoing all links

[18:37:33]

wagnerrp:

are you scraping the whole database, rather than just a single episode?

[18:37:41]

sphery:

28s real time and 5s user time

[18:37:41]

wagnerrp:

or are you pulling content from the backend?

[18:38:09]

sphery:

(oh, and that's on my 5-view script, not one at a time)

[18:38:50]

sphery:

looks like it does a QUERY RECORDINGS Delete, so it gets all 1350+ recordings via proto, then skips the ones we don't need

[18:39:12]

sphery:

so the file system access is nothing, it's the backend query that's taking all the tiem

[18:39:13]

Beirdo:

ouch

[18:39:27]

** sphery must rewrite the --chanid and --starttime support **

[18:39:31]

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[18:39:49]

sphery:

(I did commit the patch that was submitted, so I guess it's my responsibility)

[18:40:08]

Beirdo:

you just made yourself more work?

[18:40:29]

sphery:

or, maybe...

[18:40:39]

sphery:

unless wagnerrp could do it all better with python

[18:40:56]

Beirdo:

heh

[18:40:59]

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[18:41:17]

sphery:

I love working with people who never walk away from a challenge :)

[18:41:53]

Beirdo:

let's get wagnerrp to do it in LUA

[18:42:12]

sphery:

heh

[18:42:12]

Beirdo:

python's too easy for him

[18:43:14]

sphery:

http://xkcd.com/353/

[18:43:18]

Beirdo:

blargh

[18:43:35]

Beirdo:

#5435 / #4920

[18:44:07]

Beirdo:

seems we may need to rethink stuff. stupid DLNA/UPnP non-compatibilities

[18:45:10]

Beirdo:

wonder if having a "funky-list" of some sorts would work

[18:45:26]

Beirdo:

based on client USER-AGENT setting, I guess

[18:45:30]

sphery:

is that the same issue as that new patch the user submitted?

[18:45:37]

Beirdo:

yeah

[18:45:42]

Beirdo:

oh

[18:45:45]

sphery:

er, new ticket, for which you created a patch

[18:45:48]

Beirdo:

no

[18:45:52]

Beirdo:

different OLD one

[18:46:13]

sphery:

yeah, just wondered if it's a dup

[18:46:33]

Beirdo:

the patch I put in deals with the upnp web server not liking GET http://host:6544/Mythtv/...

[18:46:38]

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[18:46:57]

sphery:

oh

[18:47:02]

Beirdo:

nah, this old one is &amp;

[18:47:16]

sphery:

yeah, isn't GET http://hostname:port/ invalid?

[18:47:16]

Beirdo:

which got "fixed" a while back, but rolled back by Isaac

[18:47:38]

Beirdo:

technically, likely so

[18:47:40]

sphery:

oh, I think it's invalid, but old versions allowed it, so it's recommended that servers accept it

[18:47:45]

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[18:47:49]

Beirdo:

but yeah, exactly

[18:47:53]

sphery:

yeah

[18:48:06]

Beirdo:

we didn't handle it at all

[18:48:09]

sphery:

was just trying to remember the spec... sometimes takes me a while to get there

[18:48:15]

Beirdo:

my tiny patch should fix it.

[18:48:21]

sphery:

cool

[18:48:38]

sphery:

stupid UPnP/DLNA clients sending broken requests... :)

[18:48:39]

Beirdo:

but I'd like the guy with the offending device to try it before bothering to commit

[18:48:52]

sphery:

s/offending/offensive/

[18:49:04]

Beirdo:

hehe

[18:49:07]

Beirdo:

yeah well

[18:49:16]

Beirdo:

we will tweak it to death

[18:50:31]

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[18:52:45]

Beirdo:

but I wonder if some sort of "oddities" matrix shouldn't be created, at least on the wiki

[18:53:01]

sphery:

would probably be a good idea

[18:53:08]

Beirdo:

Oooh, interesting.

[18:53:12]

sphery:

so we don't keep fixing one and breaking the other

[18:53:24]

Beirdo:

the user-agent for DirecTV HR-21 (HD PVR)...

[18:53:36]

Beirdo:

USER-AGENT: Linux/2.6.18.8.ltt-Pace-1.109.4.18, UPnP/1.0 DIRECTV VIIV devices /1.0 DLNADOC/1.00 INTEL_NMPR/2.1

[18:53:45]

Beirdo:

that puppy's running Linux

[18:54:32]

sphery:

is it the DirecTiVo unit or the newer DirecTV in-house units (that may get TiVo to sue DirecTV like it did DISH)

[18:54:40]

Beirdo:

not sure

[18:54:52]

Beirdo:

that's from the capture in #4920

[18:56:05]

sphery:

wagnerrp: since you're the protocol expert, now (having just re-implemented it :), do you know the format for starttime in QUERY_RECORDING TIMESLOT

[18:56:11]

Beirdo:

Hmm, I guess I could start a matrix on the wiki anyways

[18:56:26]

sphery:

just wondered about the TiVo thing

[18:56:31]

Beirdo:

it's just too complex to leave it completely alone

[18:56:33]

sphery:

I'd guess it's a newer unit

[18:56:46]

sphery:

which probably makes it all that much closer to TiVo's :)

[18:57:29]

Beirdo:

probably

[18:57:38]

Beirdo:

I refused to get the DVR from them

[18:58:35]

Beirdo:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/UPnP_Client_Info

[18:58:38]

Beirdo:

lookie what I find

[18:59:25]

sphery:

nice

[18:59:34]

Beirdo:

very incomplete :)

[19:00:23]

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[19:00:24]

Beirdo:

and I'd like the USER-AGENT in there

[19:00:46]

Beirdo:

actually, I'd like to be able to have the user-agent in the backend logs with -v upnp

[19:00:51]

Beirdo:

not sure it is

[19:01:53]

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[19:02:01]

sphery:

should probably send a message to -users list asking people to update it

[19:02:10]

sphery:

once you get format (and appropriate info in logs)

[19:02:18]

Beirdo:

yeah

[19:02:43]

Beirdo:

or even have them email me with the details if they are wiki-challenged

[19:03:03]

** sphery considers just doing a "blindly pass the starttime argument to QUERY_RECORDINGS TIMESLOT and let it handle the errors" approach **

[19:03:15]

sphery:

seems it already does conversions for the 3 time formats

[19:03:28]

sphery:

(though I should really fix the conversion code... but that's another story.)

[19:04:15]

Beirdo:

oh no

[19:04:20]

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[19:04:34]

Beirdo:

I sense the inevitable unixtime argument hiding behind that

[19:06:52]

sphery:

heh, no this is a should-have-used-QDateTime-parsing-instead-of-building-our-own argument

[19:07:27]

Beirdo:

OK then :)

[19:08:10]

Beirdo:

we can have the other timewaster some other time :)

[19:09:58]

sphery:

kormoc: BTW, speaking of datetime formats... Are you using MySQL 5.1 (or Drizzle or whatever this week's fork is :)? Do you have any comments on http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/8585 ?

[19:10:55]

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[19:11:42]

Beirdo:

sphery: oh joy

[19:12:21]

sphery:

problem?

[19:12:32]

** Beirdo represses the urge to reference unixtime AGAIN :) **

[19:12:53]

Beirdo:

just the lovely date/time kerfuffle... over and over

[19:13:01]

sphery:

heh

[19:13:27]

sphery:

well, this one is user-facing, so it would need a prettier date time

[19:13:31]

sphery:

ideally local time

[19:13:47]

Beirdo:

yeah. we should use Star Trek time

[19:13:51]

sphery:

heh

[19:14:05]

Beirdo:

stardate blah blah

[19:14:06]

Beirdo:

hehe

[19:16:46]

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[19:17:30]

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[19:19:59]

sphery:

I'm trying to remember what the weird format of dates is in some *nix utility (was thinking date)...

[19:20:07]

sphery:

something very fanciful

[19:22:12]

Beirdo:

man strftime

[19:22:13]

Beirdo:

?

[19:23:02]

Beirdo:

date +%c maybe?

[19:23:35]

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[19:24:56]

ServerSage:

So running mythfilldatabase causes the load on my myth box to jump up over 4 and the system to slow to a crawl. Just looking for pointers on where to even start.

[19:25:37]

Beirdo:

nice -n 10 mythfilldatabase

[19:27:17]

ServerSage:

Beirdo: I'm assuming there is a problem, and I'd rather get to the bottom of the issue than slap a bandaid on it. This just recently started for no apparent reason.

[19:27:47]

sphery:

mythfilldatabase is a pretty processor and I/O intensive operation

[19:27:52]

sphery:

not well suited to toy processors

[19:27:53]

Wicked:

hmm. what does mythfilldatabase do besides get data from the web and insert into the db?.....ive seen alot of complaints for it stressing systems.

[19:27:56]

Beirdo:

well, maybe stating that upfront would be helpful :)

[19:28:11]

Beirdo:

umm, maybe database optimization may help a bit

[19:28:28]

Wicked:

getting data and inserting shouldnt tax a system to bad

[19:29:23]

Beirdo:

it's not from the web, really, it's from an API

[19:29:41]

Beirdo:

and it's a LOT of data

[19:29:41]

Wicked:

yea...even more reason it shouldnt tax the system too bad

[19:29:41]

k-man:

can mythtv-backend use usb tuners on a mac under osx?

[19:29:41]

ServerSage:

Beirdo: Even a LOT of data shouldn't tax the system this much.

[19:29:52]

Wicked:

i wrote a app a while back that grabbed lots of data and inserted into mysql...sometimes 100 inserts a second and it used virtually no cpu/disk io/memory

[19:29:54]

ServerSage:

Beirdo: And on top of that it's taking FOREVER to actually do it's work. It's been going for about 20 minutes now.

[19:30:06]

Beirdo:

it takes a while

[19:30:07]

Wicked:

so im just curious if mythtv is doing alot of things behind the scenes

[19:30:10]

Beirdo:

live with it :)

[19:30:41]

Beirdo:

the API servers themselves take a while to generate your dataset (assuming you are using Schedules Direct)

[19:30:47]

ServerSage:

Beirdo: I'm ok with it taking a long time, it's the fact that the system becomes unusable.

[19:30:56]

Beirdo:

then use nice.

[19:31:04]

Beirdo:

make it low priority, move on

[19:31:48]

sphery:

Wicked: I'd love you to rewrite all the XML parsing so that it's done in a way that doesn't stress the system so that I can change mythfilldatbase to always grab all data on Schedules Direct

[19:31:50]

Beirdo:

it does a lot of work

[19:32:35]

Wicked:

heh. id seriously look into it except i dont know python or c/c++

[19:32:37]

ServerSage:

Beirdo: If thats the answer, then that is cool. I'm just confused as to why it's just now popping up as a problem after years and years of use.

[19:32:48]

sphery:

but you know it shouldn't tax the system???

[19:32:50]

Wicked:

and im not complaining...was merly curious

[19:33:00]

Wicked:

sphery, never said that.

[19:33:11]

iamlindoro:

"<Wicked> yea...even more reason it shouldnt tax the system too bad"

[19:33:16]

sphery:

heh

[19:33:20]

sphery:

anyway, it's on the list

[19:33:27]

ServerSage:

Now now boys and girls. Didn't want to get anybody beat up. Hehe.

[19:33:36]

Wicked:

in regards to it getting from an api..apposed to manually getting it from html or something

[19:33:37]

sphery:

we have more people saying it needs done (>0) than people actually doing it (0)

[19:34:02]

Wicked:

anywho. i know you guys love to flame people so ill shutup.

[19:34:22]

ServerSage:

Wicked: It's the IRC way. :)

[19:34:28]

Wicked:

hehe

[19:34:44]

sphery:

no, it's more that we hate when someone says we didn't do things right and they aren't providing the code to do it right

[19:34:44]

iamlindoro:

Yeah, definitely about our love of flaming and not about incorrect statements, that's much more sensible

[19:35:28]

Wicked:

heh. ive been around this channel for a while...ive seen you flare up over nothing before.

[19:35:33]

ServerSage:

I didn't take what he said as, "You guys are doing it wrong" I took it as "Aaah, an API is more efficient than HTTP calls", but meh.

[19:35:43]

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[19:36:23]

ServerSage:

Doesn't matter in the end, if it's working it's balls off I'm ok with that. And that seems to be the consensus. Thanks folks. Now, be nice to each other.

[19:37:37]

ServerSage:

I actually do have one more question, and I admit I did not research this even a little. I notice that when I run mythfilldatabase it always says "HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 401 Unauthorized" and then the very next line it works.

[19:37:39]

Wicked:

exactly

[19:38:01]

sphery:

Beirdo: woah, this took /way/ too long... Discordian dates. ddate command

[19:38:05]

Wicked:

err that was at your previous comment

[19:38:20]

iamlindoro:

ServerSage, That is the way HTTP auth works

[19:38:44]

ServerSage:

iamlindoro: Aaah, super. Thanks. I assumed it was inane, just figured I'd ask now while I had everybody riled up.

[19:38:54]

iamlindoro:

you do a get, receive an unauthorized, and post credentials

[19:42:26]

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[19:47:14]

Beirdo:

iPhone + FIOS?!

[19:49:50]

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[19:52:43]

wagnerrp:

sphery: still in need of an answer?

[19:53:24]

sphery:

actually I got the date part

[19:53:26]

kormoc:

ServerSage, mythfilldatabase is only one process, it can't by itself take your load up to over 4

[19:53:31]

sphery:

just haven't gotten the actual command format

[19:53:41]

kormoc:

sphery, well, we just have to remove the T out of the string :)

[19:54:02]

wagnerrp:

its just 'QUERY_RECORDING TIMESLOT <chanid> <starttime>'

[19:54:28]

wagnerrp:

starttime being an integer value YYYYMMDDHHmmss

[19:54:48]

sphery:

I think I might be getting the DELETE because the mythlink.pl code uses Delete so I used Timeslot to keep it the same, but our proto makes it case sensitive

[19:55:47]

sphery:

2010-07–20 19:55:30.097 Bad QUERY_RECORDINGS query

[19:55:49]

sphery:

maybe not

[19:56:53]

wagnerrp:

note that is the recording start time, not the program start time

[19:57:07]

sphery:

yeah, that's not the problem

[19:59:17]

wagnerrp:

http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/1904887

[19:59:44]

ServerSage:

kormoc: Aaah, but it talks to mythbackend and mysql. :)

[20:00:13]

kormoc:

ServerSage, it only talks to the BE to reschedule when it's done, nothing more

[20:00:34]

kormoc:

ServerSage, and if it's mysql causing the load, you can use the tools to check it all

[20:00:38]

wagnerrp:

sphery: ^^^ see link

[20:01:04]

ServerSage:

kormoc: See, this is what I was looking for in the way of information. What tools are you referring to?

[20:02:38]

kormoc:

ServerSage, there's years of information to be dumped, the easiest would be to watch the "SHOW PROCESSLIST" while it's running and see if it's stalling on anything

[20:03:20]

wagnerrp:

sphery: in case youre wondering, the above example is on trunk

[20:03:33]

wagnerrp:

but the code hasnt changed recently (aside from fewer items in the programinfo)

[20:08:49]

sphery:

wasn't there some change with backend separator for QUERY_RECORDING?

[20:08:54]

sphery:

do you remember when that was?

[20:09:09]

wagnerrp:

not in the time ive been working with the protocol

[20:10:17]

wagnerrp:

only mention i see of it is in rev 32, when it was added

[20:10:52]

sphery:

ah, that was QUERY_CHECKFILE

[20:13:16]

wagnerrp:

scam artist given 50mo more than the sentence maximum, after photoshopping himself into pictures of charity work in an attempt to garner sympathy

[20:14:19]

Beirdo:

sphery: let's use ddate output. I like

[20:14:44]

sphery:

heh, yeah

[20:14:47]

sphery:

and it's intuitive

[20:15:00]

wagnerrp:

you mean i have to parse out a big long character string? no way

[20:15:40]

sphery:

why don't you sleep on it. Maybe you'll reconsider in Sweetmorn. Or, perhaps on Prickle-Prickle.

[20:16:01]

wagnerrp:

certainly not before St. TIb's day

[20:16:08]

sphery:

heh

[20:16:12]

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[20:16:21]

** wagnerrp wonders if sphery is reading the same man page he is **

[20:16:23]

Beirdo:

the 55th day of Confusion

[20:16:26]

sphery:

yep

[20:16:29]

Beirdo:

ain't that the truth

[20:16:43]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Was listening to the MythTVCast and a question came to mind

[20:16:57]

Beirdo:

"the MythTVCast"?

[20:16:57]

wagnerrp:

yes, and of course shes legal

[20:17:32]

sphery:

Beirdo: http://mythtvcast.com/

[20:17:54]

sphery:

see ep 22 for someone you may recognize

[20:18:59]

wagnerrp:

yeah, that scammer that keeps trying to get money from mythtv users through font and guide data sales

[20:20:09]

sphery:

heh

[20:20:35]

wagnerrp:

GadgetWisdomGuru: well? out with it!

[20:20:44]

** wagnerrp dodges the vomit **

[20:20:54]

Beirdo:

heheh

[20:20:58]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Sphery, yes, that's the one

[20:21:09]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Sorry. Had to step away for a second

[20:21:29]

Beirdo:

you done pukin then? :)

[20:22:02]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

But, to preface it, I've been looking to get involved with projects I use, but I'm not a programmer. So, I've been looking at getting involved with other aspects of my chosen distro.

[20:22:42]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

And listening to a certain developer talk on the MythTVCast, I have to ask. Does MythTV have a docs/marketing group?

[20:24:04]

wagnerrp:

marketing? no... not sure what exactly they would do anyway since we have no funds

[20:24:16]

wagnerrp:

but there is one dev that comes around about once a release and updates the docs

[20:25:37]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Wagnerrp, marketing isn't a money thing.

[20:26:11]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Marketing is about explaining your product to people

[20:26:19]

Beirdo:

heh

[20:26:20]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Would you prefer the term PR?

[20:26:25]

Beirdo:

marketing is ALL about money

[20:26:35]

Beirdo:

at least in every company I've ever been in

[20:26:43]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I was listening to the head of the Fedora marketing program

[20:26:46]

wagnerrp:

rkulagow... thats who i was thinking of

[20:26:47]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Now, they do have money

[20:26:49]

wagnerrp:

couldnt come up with the name

[20:27:00]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

"The Fedora Marketing Team ensures that people in Fedora can consistently explain to everyone what Fedora is, why the project can help them, and how they can help the project. "

[20:27:16]

sphery:

who's deleting my links?

[20:27:25]

Beirdo:

and no, we have no "marketing department" :)

[20:27:31]

sphery:

hmmm... they didn't delete that time

[20:27:31]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo's deleting your links

[20:27:33]

sphery:

weird

[20:27:39]

sphery:

heh

[20:27:44]

Beirdo:

have I?

[20:27:51]

** wagnerrp hides from the impending boot **

[20:27:59]

** Beirdo replaces sphery's links with some pr0n **

[20:28:17]

sphery:

heh

[20:28:21]

Beirdo:

argh

[20:28:37]

Beirdo:

now I have a MONTH to get flickr support into mythgallery

[20:28:57]

wagnerrp:

this is my new second favorite slashdot post... http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1725 . . . cid=32969044

[20:29:05]

sphery:

seems it takes 27–28s whether I do a QUERY_RECORDINGS DELETE or TIMESLOT

[20:29:16]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

But, is it a bad idea to organize non-developers to explain MythTV and to write better docs and contribute to the Wiki?

[20:29:27]

wagnerrp:

the phalanx CIWS fires an energy equivalent of 2 big macs per second

[20:29:37]

sphery:

GadgetWisdomGuru: definitely not... good documentation is always appreciated

[20:29:44]

sphery:

and people heling is, too

[20:30:07]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Sphery, so, the question is, I just had this theoretically great idea.

[20:30:22]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I'm perhaps the least charismatic person in the universe.

[20:30:22]

wagnerrp:

merketing? no idea what to do with that

[20:30:37]

wagnerrp:

documentation? talk to rkulagow, and see where he could use some help

[20:30:40]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Who do I get to be charismatic on it?

[20:30:42]

wagnerrp:

or just start on your own in the wiki

[20:30:53]

wagnerrp:

wiki could always use more editors

[20:31:01]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I have contributed stuff in there

[20:31:18]

wagnerrp:

for example, the menu layouts have sat half finished for as long as ive used mythtv

[20:31:24]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

But, if I want to start an organized effort?

[20:31:29]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

that was the idea.

[20:31:44]

Beirdo:

tonight, maybe... I might test the vaapi stuff on my GMA500

[20:32:11]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: yeah... what was with that 'me too' comment on trac with that ticket

[20:32:14]

wagnerrp:

tsk tsk...

[20:32:20]

wagnerrp:

:)

[20:32:34]

Beirdo:

it's called "collaboration", buddy :)

[20:32:34]

sphery:

well, starting by explaining the idea to others (here and/or the mailing list) is probably best since we don't really have anyone doing that

[20:32:48]

sphery:

I'm sure if you can take some of the pressure off Robert, he would very much appreciate it

[20:32:49]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I'll give the users mailing list a try.

[20:33:04]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I think it would be a nice way for non-developers to give back.

[20:33:05]

sphery:

and could actually start here, too

[20:33:11]

wagnerrp:

there is very little chance of organizing the users in a functional manner

[20:33:20]

sphery:

bouncing some ideas off the people in there (including devs and non-devs) before "going public"

[20:33:24]

Beirdo:

organizing users?

[20:33:30]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Wagnerrp, you don't need all the users

[20:33:34]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

You need some users.

[20:33:35]

sphery:

you're #3210, Beirdo

[20:33:36]

Beirdo:

that's WORSE than herding cats

[20:33:45]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Like the army says, all you need is a few good men.

[20:33:48]

wagnerrp:

GadgetWisdomGuru: but all the users want to participate, in opposite directions

[20:33:55]

sphery:

I'm #99283 :(

[20:33:59]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

That's way groups are important.

[20:34:04]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Groups have processes, hierarchy.

[20:34:09]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Organization

[20:34:13]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

why, not way.

[20:34:16]

Beirdo:

heh

[20:34:42]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: my sister used to work with someone who had a few cats and a shepherd dog

[20:34:48]

wagnerrp:

like a border collie or something

[20:34:51]

Beirdo:

hehe

[20:34:56]

wagnerrp:

the thing would herd the cats around all day long

[20:34:59]

wagnerrp:

drove the things nuts

[20:34:59]

Beirdo:

we had cats + sheltie...

[20:35:15]

Beirdo:

one of the cats was smart and would just lie down

[20:35:22]

wagnerrp:

they were losing hair from the stress

[20:35:25]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

But, here is the proposal, in a nutshell. And I'll refine it as I mentally do so.

[20:35:29]

Beirdo:

the other... grew up with the dog, and they would play constantly

[20:35:40]

Beirdo:

both of them knew what "get the kitty" meant

[20:36:17]

Beirdo:

of course, company would be offended... so we'd tell them to stop playing, get the dog lying at our feet

[20:36:26]

wagnerrp:

GadgetWisdomGuru: were not trying to discourage you or anything, just relaying past experiences about trying to mount any sort of constructive discussion with the user base

[20:36:31]

Beirdo:

then the cat would come ripping in a few minutes later and pounce on the dog

[20:36:45]

Beirdo:

and then they'd go chase each other around the house again

[20:36:49]

wagnerrp:

check out any of the threads about rewriting mythmusic, or the OSD, or removing settings or features

[20:36:52]

Beirdo:

they were having fun :)

[20:37:02]

wagnerrp:

it pretty quickly devolves to drivel

[20:37:45]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Wagnerrp, I have read them.

[20:38:02]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

But, this is the idea I'm contemplating:

[20:38:18]

** Beirdo thinks of bottle rockets **

[20:41:59]

iamlindoro:

Someone can tell the thief on the users list that the issue is with the API/CDN servers, not with us-- some of them appear to be handling requests wrong-- one that had that issue last night for me no longer does today because I got a different CDN... but I'm not helping a thief

[20:43:15]

wagnerrp:

but but... i recorded this with my own video camera

[20:43:39]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

A group of volunteers set up and endorsed by the developers whose mission statement it is to update documentation(including the wiki) and related materials to encourage adoption, and to coordinate constructive feedback from the user base to the developers.

[20:43:44]

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[20:44:23]

wagnerrp:

you might want to talk to skd5aner about that

[20:44:31]

wagnerrp:

hes made it a one-man mission to keep the release notes up to date

[20:44:35]

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[20:44:35]

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[20:44:35]

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[20:45:34]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

So far, we've established two people I might talk to about this idea, skd5aner and rkulagow.

[20:47:01]

wagnerrp:

wow... $165M budget for that movie

[20:47:22]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

My theory is, if there was a mailing list and an announcement, a dozen or so people would volunteer, and a third of that would stick around to start.

[20:47:40]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

More once it got organized.

[20:48:05]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Another dozen people would sign up and not go any farther.

[20:52:35]

wagnerrp:

before you go forward with anything, you may also want to discuss this with the recently formed board iamlindoro briefly mentioned in the webcast

[20:53:22]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Wagnerrp, that was my point. I would not go ahead with anything without endorsement from the MythTV establishment.

[20:53:29]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

How does one find the MythTV Board?

[20:54:09]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I'm only 17 minutes into that podcast, by the way.

[20:54:25]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I need my ears for something else for a bit before I can get back to it.

[20:54:32]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Editing audio.

[20:55:20]

wagnerrp:

seems thats chris, chris, and janne

[20:55:26]

sphery:

wagnerrp: copy/paste is evil

[20:55:48]

sphery:

QUERY_RECORDINGS DELETE -> QUERY_RECORDING TIMESLOT takes 2 changes

[20:55:54]

sphery:

I only did one

[20:56:05]

wagnerrp:

by majority vote, theyve decided janne is going to change his name to chris as well

[20:56:32]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

But, is there an official line of communications to the entire board at once?

[20:57:16]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

IE, is there a recording secretary, as is recommended by Robert's Rules?

[20:59:18]

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[20:59:51]

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[21:00:02]

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[21:01:22]

iamlindoro:

GadgetWisdomGuru, Really the only real way to communicate with the board at once is a) to send an e-mail to the mythtv dev list, or b) to use the contact form on the web site. b) is filtered slightly but messages of note end up on our private mailing list, a) is public but we will all more or less see it

[21:01:40]

sphery:

wagnerrp: 28s to 0.5s (for 5x mythlink.pl)

[21:01:45]

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[21:01:45]

poodyp_ is now known as poodyp

[21:01:54]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I was thinking of using the contact form on the website.

[21:01:57]

sphery:

and it only took a couple hours because of a stupid S

[21:02:33]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

But, I will put it in writing there.

[21:03:13]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

In as detailed an explanation as possible and see what comes of it.

[21:03:25]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I now return you to your regularly scheduled banter

[21:06:40]

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[21:08:05]

wagnerrp:

oh, i didnt even notice... heh

[21:08:10]

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[21:08:19]

wagnerrp:

yeah, that S makes a /big/ difference

[21:08:27]

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[21:09:41]

** wagnerrp anxiously awaits bobnvic's response **

[21:10:07]

iamlindoro:

heh

[21:10:19]

iamlindoro:

I am anxious to learn how this is my fault and I am a jerk also

[21:10:31]

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[21:11:00]

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[21:11:04]

wagnerrp:

aargh...

[21:11:10]

wagnerrp:

outa tunahs

[21:11:50]

iamlindoro:

literacola

[21:12:10]

kormoc:

Mmm.... Vegas...

[21:13:05]

sphery:

New Vegas?

[21:13:24]

wagnerrp:

when does that come out?

[21:13:37]

iamlindoro:

Liked fallout 3, looking forward to new vegas

[21:13:51]

sphery:

kormoc: "That's amazing, You must know the creators of the game or something? Awesome. Can you introduce me? I want to get games early too!"

[21:13:54]

kormoc:

Nah, just booked a trip for 8/27–8/29 in real life for a friend's bachelor party

[21:14:06]

** kormoc cues the hangover jokes **

[21:14:13]

wagnerrp:

ooh, oct 19th

[21:14:17]

sphery:

heh

[21:14:29]

iamlindoro:

Heh, I'll be there the next week doing the Silverman Ironman triathlon

[21:14:50]

sphery:

do you all paint yourself like NYC street performing robots?

[21:14:58]

iamlindoro:

yes, just like that

[21:15:06]

** kormoc wonders what silver + iron make **

[21:15:06]

sphery:

figured--it just makes sense

[21:15:14]

iamlindoro:

Slivron!

[21:15:23]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Sphery, they still do that? I haven't seen it in a while.

[21:15:25]

sphery:

AgFe or would it be FeAg

[21:15:44]

sphery:

really I've only seen it on CSI: NY and similar shows :)

[21:15:49]

kormoc:

Heh, google finds a article "SYNTHESIS AND MAGNETIC PROPERTIES OF NANOSIZED SILVER-IRONCOMPOSITE NANOPARTICLES"

[21:15:56]

sphery:

oh, and 30 Rock!

[21:16:15]

sphery:

my world reality is formed via network TV

[21:16:22]

kormoc:

We have silver painted folks in Seattle from time to time

[21:16:33]

kormoc:

sphery, as every American's should!

[21:16:37]

sphery:

yep

[21:16:53]

sphery:

and all my opinions are the medias, and the medias alone

[21:16:55]

iamlindoro:

Everyone who puts movie stills up as fanart at TMDb should be SHOT IN THE FACE

[21:17:21]

sphery:

did you see the "3D" covers that justinh found

[21:17:21]

kormoc:

^^++

[21:17:31]

kormoc:

sphery, special 3d?

[21:17:33]

iamlindoro:

I complained about those months ago

[21:17:33]

sphery:

was an actual picture of the DVD case (with sides visible

[21:17:39]

ServerSage:

I'm gearing up to get a new frontend, any recommendations? Looking for small, silent, no-build. Just want to buy it and install Mythbuntu on it and go. I do have two HD-PVRs, so HD playback is a must. Audio over HDMI a plus.

[21:17:45]

iamlindoro:

gbee complained about them in their foums

[21:17:48]

iamlindoro:

all for naught

[21:17:57]

kormoc:

ServerSage, mac mini

[21:18:07]

sphery:

foum... sounds like what happens when you get the match too close to the can of gasoline

[21:18:36]

ServerSage:

kormoc: Ug, so if I want to spend less than $700 I have to build it myself I guess?

[21:18:39]

sphery:

++ on the Mac Mini (read, "Not a toy processor")

[21:19:30]

** iamlindoro never gets tired of the Tomb Raider fanart, though **

[21:19:30]

kormoc:

ServerSage, Cheap, Small, No work involved, Pick two

[21:19:43]

sphery:

I do small (no volume), silent (no decibels) with a drill....

[21:20:03]

sphery:

just put the MythBox in some other room and run cables through/around walls to the TV

[21:20:28]

ServerSage:

kormoc: What is wrong with the revo's and such? I assume there is some reason one should stay away.

[21:20:33]

sphery:

no case is as small or silent or pretty as an invisible case that's out of earshot

[21:20:46]

sphery:

toy processors...

[21:21:05]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Sphery, you've never seen a man painted as a robot?I saw it in SF once last year.

[21:21:09]

ServerSage:

sphery: I don't do video editing with my frontend. lol. It just plays back recorded TV and music.

[21:21:13]

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[21:21:27]

kormoc:

ServerSage, it's still nice to have a fast ui

[21:21:31]

sphery:

GadgetWisdomGuru: only on tv

[21:21:34]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Ok

[21:22:11]

kormoc:

ServerSage, find a late 2009 used mac mini, they're on CL in my area for mid $400's, which is the same as the ions + optical drive

[21:22:13]

ServerSage:

kormoc: Aaah, so the UI is sluggish with the atoms? Thats a PERFECT reason to not get an ION. Hehe.

[21:22:37]

ServerSage:

kormoc: I though the 2009 mini's where small hot plates you could fry eggs on.

[21:22:43]

sphery:

yeah, and playback requires some grunt unless you're willing to bet everything on some company's providing a way to decode everything you will ever want to watch when you use that Atom

[21:22:54]

kormoc:

ServerSage, As I don't own an ION, I can't say for sure, but the mailing list has a pile of threads with people complaining as such

[21:22:57]

sphery:

if you trust that company will support all formats you like

[21:23:10]

kormoc:

ServerSage, mine is the 2009 with the nvidia gpu and it's *great*

[21:23:12]

sphery:

and you don't care for online video/MythNetvision (and the Flash resource hog)

[21:23:21]

sphery:

and you don't want the computer to, er, compute

[21:23:28]

sphery:

then you can maybe make it work

[21:23:39]

ServerSage:

kormoc: sphery: do you guys just use the OSX mythfrontend? Or do you install linux on your mini?

[21:23:40]

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[21:23:53]

sphery:

or, for the same cost and same power usage and same size and same quietness, you can get a real processor

[21:23:57]

kormoc:

ServerSage, I run linux on my mini and I actually use it as my MBE and FE

[21:24:02]

sphery:

note, however, I am /very/ biases against Atom

[21:24:08]

sphery:

er, biased

[21:24:10]

sphery:

and fully admit it

[21:24:27]

kormoc:

I'm *really* happy with my mini, hence why I recommend it

[21:24:34]

ServerSage:

sphery: I'm ok with that. :) I had no opinion until I came in here. :)

[21:24:41]

sphery:

I actually don't have a Mac Mini, but I was ++'ing the idea because it's not an Atom

[21:24:52]

sphery:

and it has a good proc

[21:24:54]

sphery:

and it's low power

[21:25:06]

sphery:

and, really, kind of pretty

[21:25:08]

wagnerrp:

a 'solar energy plant' really just doesnt fit the world of fallout

[21:25:12]

sphery:

(and I hate myself for saying so)

[21:25:22]

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[21:25:29]

ServerSage:

sphery: What do you have for a FE?

[21:25:44]

sphery:

the biggest, ugliest, loudest computer you can imagine

[21:25:54]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Why are you biased against Atom? I just don't get it.

[21:25:55]

wagnerrp:

(stuffed behind a wall)

[21:26:17]

wagnerrp:

GadgetWisdomGuru: he doesnt like having to rely on hardware acceleration to do things

[21:26:22]

sphery:

(actually, I just moved the loud one to be my dev box, so it only runs sometimes, and swapped a 65W TDP system into the frontend role)

[21:26:27]

kormoc:

GadgetWisdomGuru, they're not cheap

[21:26:55]

ServerSage:

Gah, SF area doesn't have much in the way of 2009 mini's on CL. Bummer.

[21:26:57]

wagnerrp:

too many people have been burned by restrictions of Xv, XvMC, and other similar interfaces

[21:27:00]

sphery:

but it was mainly because I burned up the mobo on a different computer, and my newer computer was faster and less power-hungry, so it made sense to roll them down

[21:27:05]

wagnerrp:

and he just likes the flexibility of a powerful processor

[21:27:09]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I'm near looking for something to replace my two frontends, which are Athlon X2 BE-2400s...

[21:27:11]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I like low power.

[21:27:15]

sphery:

but, yeah, it's in a different room, so I never even see it, really

[21:27:20]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

My backend uses the bulk of the power

[21:27:27]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

The frontends shut themselves off when not in use.

[21:27:40]

wagnerrp:

thats the bigger issue

[21:27:54]

kormoc:

GadgetWisdomGuru, for a optical drive on a ion, the cheapest I can find is ~$475, the mini isn't that much more for a much more powerful system, better looks (imho), etc

[21:27:56]

sphery:

GadgetWisdomGuru / ServerSage : http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/25w-performance-pc,2551.html + http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-e7200-g31,2039.html + http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-ato . . . cy,2069.html

[21:28:08]

wagnerrp:

when youre only running 10–20% duty cycle, that underperforming, low power processor isnt so much of a requirement

[21:28:30]

sphery:

GadgetWisdomGuru / ServerSage : and http://mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-users/2010-July/293388.html (from today, even)

[21:29:19]

ServerSage:

sphery: You and kormoc already have me sold on the mini. ;)

[21:29:24]

ServerSage:

I'm an Apple iWhore anyway.

[21:29:29]

sphery:

heh, cool

[21:29:36]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I just have never bought an Apple product.

[21:29:43]

sphery:

just don't blame me if you don't like it

[21:29:45]

sphery:

:)

[21:29:47]

ServerSage:

GadgetWisdomGuru: Don't EVER buy one. Once you do, it's hard NOT to.

[21:29:48]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I'm not sold on Atom. I like the mini-ITX form factor though

[21:30:02]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

ServerSage, I own an Android phone now. I have proven my willpower

[21:30:12]

sphery:

My parents just showed up a couple weeks ago with new iPhone 4's... I was pretty impressed.

[21:30:36]

ServerSage:

GadgetWisdomGuru: I once, long long ago, was a Linux PDA, linux desktop, linux laptop guy. Then one day a friend gave me his old iMac. The bastard.

[21:30:36]

sphery:

Not enough to get one for myself (as I'm a FOSS/Freedom whore :)

[21:30:58]

sphery:

but it was a really nice phone

[21:31:20]

ServerSage:

sphery: Yeah, the4 is a REALLY nice phone.

[21:31:31]

ServerSage:

As long as you don't want to make phone calls apparently. Hehe.

[21:31:59]

sphery:

heh, yeah

[21:32:06]

sphery:

they have cases on theirs so it wasn't a problem

[21:32:28]

sphery:

but it does have problems when reception isn't great

[21:32:37]

ServerSage:

kormoc: How fast of a mini should I hold out for? 1.83 core 2 duo good enough?

[21:32:50]

wagnerrp:

good enough for what?

[21:33:03]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Sphery, Amen. I like my freedom.

[21:33:04]

ServerSage:

wagnerrp: Watching 1080i recordings.

[21:33:06]

sphery:

2.6GHz is probably good if you want high-bitrate H.264 decoding in software

[21:33:13]

wagnerrp:

what kind of recordings?

[21:33:25]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

ServerSage is that Apple or AT&T though?

[21:33:28]

sphery:

does the Mac Mini have nvidia graphics?

[21:33:29]

ServerSage:

wagnerrp: Whatever the HDPVR spits out.

[21:33:34]

wagnerrp:

then no

[21:33:38]

Shadow__X:

GadgetWisdomGuru: they have mini itx boards that can do core 2 duo's and if i am not mistaken socket 1156

[21:33:46]

ServerSage:

GadgetWisdomGuru: Apple, the iPhone has a death grip issue.

[21:33:57]

kormoc:

ServerSage, I have a 2.0 ghz and I'm happy with it, that said, I do use vdpau for my decoding

[21:34:14]

ServerSage:

kormoc: Does it handle 1080i recordings ok?

[21:34:19]

kormoc:

sphery, Aye, 9400m

[21:34:28]

sphery:

yeah, if you go below 2.6GHz, you will need nvidia + VDPAU for HD-PVR

[21:34:32]

kormoc:

ServerSage, perfectly (hdpvr capture)

[21:34:40]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Shadow_X, I know. I'm just not sure I need that much processing power though.

[21:34:42]

sphery:

2.6GHz would probably be about where you could start thinking about software decode for HD-PVR

[21:34:44]

kormoc:

ServerSage, haven't tried bluray as I don't own any

[21:35:03]

sphery:

should be fine with VDPAU

[21:35:13]

ServerSage:

sphery: I see no reason not to use VDPAU.

[21:35:21]

Shadow__X:

ServerSage: which gen mac mini are you looking at

[21:35:27]

sphery:

says a guy who neither owns a VDPAU-capable GPU nor a BluRay disc

[21:35:42]

sphery:

(but VDPAU should be fine for any BluRay)

[21:35:43]

ServerSage:

Shadow__X: I'm *looking* for a 2009 era, but all I can find are the older ones.

[21:36:07]

sphery:

ServerSage: yeah, mac mini with vdpau support would be ideal

[21:36:09]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I broke down and bought a supermarket Blu-ray player

[21:36:28]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I own 3 blu-ray discs and have never watched a single one

[21:36:30]

sphery:

that way, you can use vdpau for things it supports, but you're not limited for things it doesn't (include Flash)

[21:36:34]

Shadow__X:

ServerSage: the older ones had gma 950's and x3100's if i am not mistaken so no gpu offloading there. I am sure if you look hard enough or are willing to pay more you can find em

[21:36:42]

ServerSage:

If I'm not mistaken, the older ones had the intel video, 2009 is when they went Nvidia. Right?

[21:36:44]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Sphery, good point on the Flash.

[21:36:55]

kormoc:

ServerSage, right

[21:37:06]

ServerSage:

Shadow__X: That confirms my thoughts. :)

[21:37:16]

sphery:

was it 2009 or 2010 that they went about 1/2 the size?

[21:37:44]

kormoc:

the newest (2010) halved the height, aye

[21:37:59]

sphery:

ah, yeah

[21:38:02]

Shadow__X:

but changed the gpu

[21:38:03]

sphery:

that one is pretty

[21:38:04]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Is it worth it to get a new system to save space?

[21:38:12]

sphery:

Shadow__X: not nvidia in 2010?

[21:38:18]

ServerSage:

Maybe I can drug the wife and in her half-witted stupor convince her we *need* a new mac mini.

[21:38:25]

Shadow__X:

more like nvidia 320m

[21:38:34]

sphery:

oh, so a better nvidia?

[21:38:38]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

ServerSage, try hypnosis.

[21:38:47]

sphery:

I'm finding more and more reasons to like the Mac Mini

[21:38:50]

kormoc:

sphery, aye, a better nvidia

[21:38:57]

sphery:

nice

[21:38:59]

ServerSage:

GadgetWisdomGuru: We've discovered she does not hypnotize. :)

[21:39:17]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Vegas stage show?

[21:39:17]

Shadow__X:

yes but i was looking at some of the mailiing list it seems like it might need a bit of elbow greese to get working

[21:39:19]

ServerSage:

I'm sold. New Mac MIni it is. God I hate this channel, and Apple. Hehe.

[21:39:20]

sphery:

now my ++ can be for more than just the fact that Mac Mini's aren't atom :)

[21:39:20]

Shadow__X:

in linux that is

[21:39:35]

sphery:

hehe, it's apple's fault

[21:39:40]

sphery:

they made it better this year

[21:39:41]

kormoc:

Shadow__X, the 2010's might, my 2009 was pretty painless

[21:39:47]

ServerSage:

GadgetWisdomGuru: No, local college show.

[21:39:53]

kormoc:

Shadow__X, one line for alsa and one line for grub

[21:39:55]

Shadow__X:

kormoc: yeah thats what i meant to say sorry for that

[21:39:57]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Fun

[21:40:07]

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[21:40:08]

Shadow__X:

i have to say the new mac mini has tempted me as well

[21:40:19]

ServerSage:

It is damn sexy.

[21:40:20]

Shadow__X:

uses 10 watts of power on idle

[21:40:21]

kormoc:

it just takes a little time, they're pretty new

[21:40:53]

Shadow__X:

Now it even has a hdmi port *and* does sound over it

[21:41:02]

sphery:

kormoc: have you been burning up more GPUs? what have you got against nvidia, anyway?

[21:41:02]

ServerSage:

Is it worth it to drop the extra $150 on a new one to get the 2.66GHz versus the standard 2.4GHz?

[21:41:42]

kormoc:

ServerSage, imho, no, ram would be better, but I don't mind having to use vdpau

[21:41:48]

sphery:

ServerSage: 2.4GHz would be fine for MythTV stuff... I don't know whether it would handle the HD-PVR playback in software, but vdpau should handle that.

[21:42:15]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Speaking of hardware, are people still buying dedicated sound cards for MythTV?

[21:42:18]

** Beirdo yawns **

[21:42:25]

sphery:

I wouldn't even go on record saying the 2.66GHz would do software decoding of HD-PVR recordings... Just that it's starting to be in the range...

[21:42:40]

wagnerrp:

GadgetWisdomGuru: most people are going to digital audio

[21:42:48]

wagnerrp:

either provided onboard their motherboard or video card

[21:42:59]

** Beirdo is not most people... yet :) **

[21:43:00]

sphery:

I'm using integrated, but my ears are very forgiving

[21:43:04]

iamlindoro:

Haven't bought a discrete card in a long, long time

[21:43:14]

ServerSage:

Ok, I've wasted enough of the channels time with the age old "What is the best frontend" question. I'm off, thanks folks!

[21:43:18]

Beirdo:

how about an indiscrete card? :)

[21:43:30]

kormoc:

Beirdo, that's for vegas!

[21:43:34]

Beirdo:

hehehe

[21:43:35]

sphery:

I don't buy discrete audio cards... I keep using the ones I bought in the early 1990s :)

[21:43:36]

Beirdo:

right

[21:43:58]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I haven't either. But I need SPDIF OUT as I don't have HDMI on my receiver and the TV passthrough only outputs 2 channel audio regardless of what it gets from the HDMI cable

[21:43:58]

sphery:

ServerSage: good luck and enjoy

[21:44:59]

wagnerrp:

discrete cards get you two things

[21:45:03]

Shadow__X:

GadgetWisdomGuru: funny thing about most macs is that they do opitcal out

[21:45:14]

Shadow__X:

mini tosslink

[21:45:24]

wagnerrp:

1. increased electrical isolation and much higher SNR

[21:45:27]

Shadow__X:

toslink*

[21:45:35]

wagnerrp:

2. hardware acceleration for 3D audio

[21:45:43]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Wagnerrp, do you have SNR on digital?

[21:45:45]

wagnerrp:

we dont care about 2, and any form of digital audio doesnt care about 1

[21:46:00]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Wagnerrp, understood.

[21:46:13]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Half the motherboards I buy have the SPDIF header.

[21:46:21]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

But no actual SPDIF jacks

[21:47:37]

** Beirdo hopes the ticket originator for #8678 shows up :) **

[21:47:43]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I'm just thinking for the future.

[21:47:51]

Beirdo:

wanna close it already, I'm just impatient

[21:48:51]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

interesting ticket though

[21:53:57]

Beirdo:

sphery: you in?

[21:54:05]

sphery:

yep

[21:54:08]

Beirdo:

#4280... how is that UPnP?

[21:54:28]

Beirdo:

am I missing something here? :)

[21:54:45]

kormoc:

might have been renamed

[21:54:49]

wagnerrp:

the upnp server is run through mythxml

[21:54:57]

Beirdo:

ahhhh

[21:55:08]

sphery:

yeah

[21:55:09]

wagnerrp:

probably the closest thing to link it to

[21:55:17]

Beirdo:

OK, so the actual change is in mythxml stuff then

[21:55:21]

sphery:

so it's all cdev's code and that makes it his

[21:55:24]

Beirdo:

OK, I getcha

[21:55:31]

wagnerrp:

the only purpose for mythxml is for running the upnp server

[21:55:31]

sphery:

not that I'm saying you can't work on it

[21:55:40]

sphery:

but it assigned it to him

[21:55:42]

Beirdo:

I'm just cherry-picking "simple" things to fix, etc

[21:56:09]

Beirdo:

especially OLD ones :)

[21:56:11]

sphery:

yeah, that one makes sense, but i haven't touched it because I don't know what cdev thought of it

[21:56:23]

Beirdo:

yeah, I'll leave it for him

[21:56:36]

Beirdo:

hopefully he has time before 0.24 :)

[21:56:39]

sphery:

though I'd probably call the attribute something different

[21:56:46]

sphery:

so it doesn't sound like it's the version of XML we're using

[21:56:53]

sphery:

but the version of the XML status page

[21:57:43]

sphery:

would be great if he would show up and give a status update on his complete reimplementation of the UPnP/MythXML stuff (that should be supporting XML, JSON, ...)

[21:57:55]

Beirdo:

yeah, it would be nice :)

[21:58:05]

sphery:

haven't heard from him in a while, so I hope he's doing well

[21:58:15]

iamlindoro:

bCould post to developers, that's a GREAT WAY to get IMMEDIATE RESPONSE from fellow devs

[21:58:27]

Beirdo:

hehe

[21:58:28]

** kormoc shifty eyes **

[21:58:34]

Beirdo:

calm down, iamlindoro :)

[21:58:38]

sphery:

http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/418085#418085 was when he mentioned it

[21:58:42]

Beirdo:

I will be reading/responding :)

[21:59:02]

Beirdo:

wow. January

[21:59:03]

kormoc:

Woot!

[21:59:14]

kormoc:

Warehouse 13 and Eureka cross over this season!

[21:59:27]

wagnerrp:

dvdnav is real programming

[21:59:30]

** wagnerrp avoids **

[22:01:53]

Beirdo:

Hmm

[22:01:54]

Beirdo:

#724

[22:02:22]

Beirdo:

hopefully THAT was actually fixed in the ui-osd merge?

[22:03:35]

sphery:

Beirdo: yeah, it's "fixed"

[22:03:40]

sphery:

they're all consistent, now :)

[22:03:50]

Beirdo:

yay.

[22:03:59]

Beirdo:

our oldest bug... fixed :)

[22:04:03]

sphery:

but see http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/440076#440076

[22:04:31]

Beirdo:

bah

[22:04:39]

Beirdo:

let them create a new ticket :)

[22:04:40]

sphery:

that's where everyone started complaining because now it's a single value for all

[22:04:49]

sphery:

users (and some devs) want the settings back

[22:04:52]

sphery:

I want it in themes

[22:05:16]

sphery:

and I think that if we do settings, we'll need several different ones for different timeouts

[22:05:23]

Beirdo:

I don't think putting it as a themer's decision is necessarily the right way

[22:05:23]

sphery:

and it will be too many

[22:05:42]

Beirdo:

but I ain't got a good suggestion :)

[22:06:14]

Beirdo:

hmmm, actually

[22:06:19]

sphery:

putting it in the theme lets the themer completely change the UI of the program

[22:06:24]

Beirdo:

having the defaults in the theme is a good idea

[22:06:35]

sphery:

to the point where on one hand you have XBMC and with a little theming (and no other changes) you have Boxee

[22:06:38]

Beirdo:

and if you want to customize... make your own custom theme

[22:06:51]

sphery:

yeah, I think the same for caption fonts

[22:07:17]

sphery:

and, I'm trying to figure out if the idea of using xml fragments to override "theme-specified 'settings'" would be good or bad

[22:07:36]

sphery:

so that a user can just download a "caption font theme" or an "osd timeout" theme

[22:07:51]

sphery:

where we just parse that as if it's from the theme, but it overrides what the theme specifies

[22:07:59]

Beirdo:

as long as the defaults match MOST user preferrence, there will be little customizable

[22:08:02]

sphery:

but I don't know theming, so I don't know if that's ludicrous

[22:08:07]

Beirdo:

customizing... happening

[22:08:19]

Beirdo:

by brain is not operational, it seems

[22:08:26]

sphery:

yeah, and that's the thing... 99.999999% of the people saying we need these things are saying they want the same values

[22:08:34]

sphery:

we had some stupid values for timeouts before mythui-osd

[22:08:39]

sphery:

now we have a reasonable one

[22:08:54]

sphery:

and if we make it a couple of reasonable defaults, I'd bet that nearly everyone would be satisfied

[22:08:55]

Beirdo:

maybe a touch too short for some

[22:09:04]

Beirdo:

yeah

[22:09:14]

sphery:

yeah, we need to differentiate between short and long at least

[22:09:18]

sphery:

maybe a short/medium/long

[22:09:44]

sphery:

but that all requires changing the code to use different values at this point--markk was just working to finish and didn't have time to do all that + write the entire mythui-osd

[22:10:20]

Beirdo:

yeah

[22:10:26]

sphery:

even if he just did a direct replacement of the 2 setting values we had, he'd have missed a good 50% of the cases where the code specified the value and the settings weren't used (the whole crux of #724)

[22:10:38]

Beirdo:

understandable

[22:10:46]

sphery:

so this way, it's all consistent and someone needs to go through the code and fix all the places to "do the right thing"

[22:10:52]

sphery:

whatever that may be

[22:11:03]

sphery:

(can you tell you touched a sore spot for me ;)

[22:11:05]

Beirdo:

yeah...

[22:11:10]

Beirdo:

hehe

[22:12:02]

sphery:

and the patch gigem posted needs changing: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/440167#440167

[22:12:12]

sphery:

it just does a single setting, but it uses equally broken default values

[22:12:37]

sphery:

should be a default of 5s if there's just one (or 3s for short and 10s for long if there's 2), IMHO

[22:12:48]

Beirdo:

sounds like you have a cause to champion :)

[22:13:32]

sphery:

since nearly everyone who was complaining about the need to keep the settings was saying, "I had to change mine to 3s/10s because the defaults 2s/3s weren't good for me."

[22:13:40]

sphery:

and, yeah, /everyone/ was changing it to the same values

[22:13:46]

Beirdo:

yeah

[22:13:49]

sphery:

sorry

[22:13:57]

Beirdo:

3/5/10 would be a good set, I think

[22:13:59]

sphery:

just had to recap

[22:14:03]

sphery:

3/5/10 would be good

[22:14:12]

sphery:

put them in themes/default

[22:14:21]

sphery:

and then users can change them if they're so inclined

[22:14:26]

sphery:

and themers can adjust them

[22:14:38]

Beirdo:

yeah

[22:15:21]

sphery:

and "My grandma shouldn't have to edit XML" is /not/ a good reason to put it in the UI and clutter up the already-too-many-settings pages with next-to-useless widgets/settings that new users have to read and decide whether to change

[22:15:42]

sphery:

I can't even find the settings in the UI anymore

[22:16:07]

sphery:

and I see /way/ too many people in here just editing DB settings directly (in mysql or MythWeb) because they can't find the UI widgets for them

[22:16:14]

Beirdo:

however "I shouldn't need to use vi" is a good point

[22:16:26]

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[22:16:27]

sphery:

yeah

[22:16:28]

Beirdo:

should be editable via remote if possible

[22:16:32]

Beirdo:

or via web

[22:16:38]

sphery:

IMHO, via remote

[22:16:45]

sphery:

even if we /also/ allow editing via web

[22:16:48]

** wagnerrp is a bad boy who tinkers in the database **

[22:16:51]

Beirdo:

aye

[22:17:16]

Beirdo:

Oh, I futz with my database at times, but then again... if I screw it up, it's my problem

[22:17:42]

Beirdo:

#3911

[22:17:42]

sphery:

I did break danielk's backend settings stuff with changes to settings text, so maybe I'll use that opportunity to make some changes to it when I regen the XML

[22:17:47]

Beirdo:

why is taht still open?!

[22:18:11]

wagnerrp:

oddly, after writing the bindings so as to manage database access, the /only/ two things i ever touch in the database are changing failed jobs to queued, or fixing the subtitles on shows so they match that in thetvdb, and can be exported to mythvideo

[22:19:17]

Beirdo:

I occasionally mess with settings

[22:19:20]

Beirdo:

but rarely

[22:19:33]

Beirdo:

a "rename this machine" would be useful though

[22:19:39]

Beirdo:

from the UI

[22:19:40]

sphery:

we have a UI for editing title/subtitle in mythfrontend

[22:19:45]

sphery:

woudl be nice to put it in mythweb, too

[22:19:51]

wagnerrp:

well the backup/restore scripts do manage that

[22:20:18]

sphery:

I have a patch that adds description to the dialog, but it's useless until we have a multiline text edit (or at least a text edit that handles text longer than the box)

[22:20:39]

sphery:

yeah, restore will rename machines

[22:20:47]

sphery:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Database_Backup_an . . . d_or_backend

[22:20:53]

sphery:

does it without actually restoring, too

[22:21:00]

sphery:

(i.e. works on the DB in place)

[22:21:22]

wagnerrp:

sphery: sure, but that takes so much longer than a mythpython; db = MythDB(); rec = db.searchRecorded(title=<whatever>, subtitle=<whatever>).next(); rec.update({'subtitle':<newsubtitle>})

[22:21:45]

wagnerrp:

(i dont have keyboards on my frontends)

[22:21:58]

sphery:

Beirdo: yeah, I don't even see that http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/14365 hack in the code, now (from #3911)

[22:22:19]

sphery:

wagnerrp: heh, yeah, that is quick

[22:22:46]

sphery:

using a remote to edit title/subtitle is annoying, so I always have to get out my keyboard

[22:23:02]

sphery:

which is why I think we should allow edit of recording metadata in mythweb, eventually

[22:23:09]

Beirdo:

can we close that thing?

[22:23:29]

wagnerrp:

of course changing the recorded table, without changing matching recordedprogram/oldrecorded tables probably breaks something somewhere

[22:23:35]

wagnerrp:

so i change it back after the export

[22:23:42]

sphery:

I also want to change program details to use actual mythui stuff (not html) and then make it so you can hit EDIT while viewing and then edit any of the (user-editable) data

[22:23:55]

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[22:23:58]

Beirdo:

heh

[22:24:02]

sphery:

changing title/subtitle isn't an issue

[22:24:11]

sphery:

chanid/starttime, however

[22:24:18]

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[22:24:22]

wagnerrp:

even with duplicate detection?

[22:24:32]

ajisen:

hi there

[22:24:40]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Hi there, ajisen

[22:24:41]

sphery:

you still have the oldrecorded entry saying it was recorded

[22:24:42]

wagnerrp:

i suppose it would just show up as 'previously recorded' instead of 'existing recording'

[22:24:50]

wagnerrp:

different state, same effect

[22:25:00]

Beirdo:

sphery: we gonna have a bug-squashing session this release?

[22:25:00]

ajisen:

hi GadgetWisdomGuru

[22:25:10]

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[22:25:25]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Ajisen, what brings you here tonight?

[22:25:42]

sphery:

so the only way editing title/sub would have an effect is if a) one or both of the 2 episodes being compares is lacking programid, and b) you have the dup matching matching on only current recordings

[22:26:10]

Beirdo:

GreyFoxx: #4517... seems to be yours.

[22:26:13]

sphery:

Beirdo: we probably should... seemed to get a lot of users involved and a lot of bugs squashed

[22:26:18]

ajisen:

GWG, mmm... its my wint hvr1300 that brings me here :)

[22:26:47]

kormoc:

Beirdo, we're watching you squash bugs right now!

[22:26:48]

wagnerrp:

ive debated making recorded and recordedprogram more interconnected

[22:27:08]

wagnerrp:

but to be honest, i dont think its worth the effort when the whole thing is going to be rewritten... one of these days

[22:27:17]

ajisen:

so I am looking to see if somebody can help me out in here

[22:27:23]

ajisen:

I have read and search through countless docs

[22:27:26]

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[22:27:51]

sphery:

woah, svn is my friend, again

[22:28:01]

kormoc:

ajisen, really? google can count really really high these days

[22:28:12]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Ajisen, I've never used one myself, alas.

[22:28:15]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Or I'd try to help

[22:28:37]

sphery:

amazing how much better svn is when you don't have to wait 20s every time you execute a command

[22:28:50]

ajisen:

I will be glad to receive any tips/tricks

[22:28:54]

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[22:28:55]

ajisen:

so here it goes

[22:29:05]

ajisen:

I got digital channels scanned

[22:29:12]

kormoc:

sphery, yeah, I'm sure, if I was you, I would have setup persistent ssh connections a long time ago

[22:29:29]

ajisen:

mplayer can pick up the channels.conf file and play audio/video

[22:29:42]

ajisen:

I have done my basic checks and test the card

[22:29:45]

wagnerrp:

mythtv does not use a channels.conf

[22:29:49]

wagnerrp:

it has its own internal scanner

[22:29:49]

ajisen:

its all workgin well

[22:29:58]

ajisen:

right I understand that

[22:30:11]

ajisen:

I am trying to import the channels to mythtv

[22:30:19]

sphery:

kormoc: heh, I was just doing all work except commits in an http working copy

[22:30:37]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Ajisen, digital channels I can help with

[22:30:41]

sphery:

and since I haven't been very productive for the last couple months, it wasn't too bad :)

[22:30:46]

ajisen:

wagnerrp: even the internal scan is timing out

[22:30:55]

ajisen:

I have set timeout to max with no luck

[22:31:02]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Timing out how?

[22:31:07]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

On all channels?

[22:31:11]

ajisen:

timeout with no signal

[22:31:15]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Are you sure you set the Frequency and such right?

[22:31:31]

ajisen:

yeap! scandvb picked up on the same freq

[22:31:53]

wagnerrp:

what version mythtv are you running?

[22:31:54]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Same channel or frequency?

[22:32:23]

ajisen:

same frequency picked up multiple channels, if that waht you meant

[22:33:24]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Is this broadcast or cable?

[22:33:54]

ajisen:

my version is mythtv-0.23–5.fc11.x86_64

[22:34:11]

ajisen:

GWG this is broadcast DVB-T

[22:34:19]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Hmm...

[22:34:23]

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[22:34:35]

ajisen:

only scandvb works for me

[22:34:42]

ajisen:

even w_scan does not pick up any channels

[22:35:09]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Not sure what to tell you. The only thing that occurred is that you were using the wrong profile. but...

[22:35:27]

ajisen:

GWG you could be right

[22:35:36]

ajisen:

i looked at the backend log

[22:35:45]

ajisen:

I tailed the mysql query

[22:36:27]

ajisen:

nothing seems right there either

[22:37:08]

ajisen:

alternately I have a pvr-150

[22:37:15]

ajisen:

which works like a charm on analogue

[22:37:42]

ajisen:

I decided to go digital and I am hitting a dead end here

[22:38:17]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

You still can import a channels.conf I think. But it is not an ideal solution

[22:38:26]

kormoc:

doesn't matter

[22:38:36]

kormoc:

if the scanner doesn't work, forcing it won't work

[22:38:53]

ajisen:

i tried the import method too

[22:38:59]

ajisen:

nothing works

[22:39:12]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I wish I had a brilliant idea.

[22:39:49]

ajisen:

I also tried the transport method

[22:40:00]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

That one I've never used

[22:40:01]

ajisen:

with no luck

[22:41:03]

ajisen:

I will now have to go and try manually inserting the channel/dtv_multiplex data

[22:41:12]

ajisen:

but unless I have the details I can't do much

[22:41:46]

kormoc:

ajisen, you never answered wagnerrp's question of which myth version you are using

[22:41:57]

wagnerrp:

yes he did

[22:42:10]

ajisen:

:)

[22:42:10]

kormoc:

whoops

[22:42:12]

wagnerrp:

0.23 on FC11

[22:42:45]

ajisen:

my last resort I build the latest firmware for wintv hvr1300

[22:45:45]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

11 has reached EOL.

[22:45:51]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Support is discontinued.

[22:46:00]

ajisen:

GWG, yes

[22:46:08]

ajisen:

but I am hesitant to upgrade

[22:46:15]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

why?

[22:46:49]

wagnerrp:

probably pulseaudio

[22:46:59]

ajisen:

its been very stable for me lately

[22:47:07]

ajisen:

i have zoneminder running

[22:48:02]

ajisen:

but I did try fc13 installation on spare disk

[22:48:06]

ajisen:

its been the same story

[22:48:16]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Ajisen, I've partitioned to make it much easier to upgrade in place.

[22:48:32]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Wagnerrp, does anyone really like Pulseaudio?

[22:48:41]

ajisen:

oh my /home is raid1

[22:48:54]

ajisen:

so I never have to worry about that when I reinstall or upgrade

[22:48:56]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I retired my RAID1

[22:48:59]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

It was overbuilt

[22:49:25]

ajisen:

i have a lot of Nikon RAW files

[22:49:39]

ajisen:

which are important for me to keep

[22:50:03]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Ajisen, I retired the RAID1 and I'm migrating my data to Amazon S3 sync.

[22:50:44]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I've been working on the redesign of the file structure to distinguish between archival and frequently used stuff for that.

[22:51:05]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

And there was no point in RAIDing the MythTV recordings. I can't afford that kind of space.

[22:51:18]

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[22:51:53]

ajisen:

its not the recording that I am worried about

[22:51:59]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Yes.

[22:52:03]

ajisen:

its the nikon raw thats is important for me

[22:52:04]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

You want the nikon RAW files.

[22:52:21]

kormoc:

mirroring with just two disks isn't much better then no mirror at all

[22:52:21]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

But do you distinguish between archival and working files?

[22:52:38]

ajisen:

no I dont

[22:53:26]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

After years of running a RAID, I decided that if I'm not touching the file regularly, it doesn't need a constantly running backup. Better to dump the backup to disc, another copy to Amazon S3 and do redundant storage that way

[22:53:36]

Beirdo:

mirroring with 2 disks is a heck of a lot better than no mirror... if only one drive dies at a time

[22:53:37]

kormoc:

2 disk raid-1 and raid 5 only protect against drive failures, not bit rot

[22:53:40]

Beirdo:

:)

[22:53:52]

kormoc:

Beirdo, nah, bitrot is just as bad/worse imho

[22:53:55]

ajisen:

i belief it raid1

[22:54:00]

ajisen:

personal opinion

[22:54:06]

kormoc:

belief?

[22:54:07]

ajisen:

I don't worry about data backup at all

[22:54:11]

Beirdo:

kormoc: yeah, there is that, I guess

[22:54:20]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Ajisen, I was expressing my opinion based on my recent reconsideration of the issue.

[22:54:26]

kormoc:

having the files there but being silently corrupted is bad imho

[22:54:30]

ajisen:

GWG I hear you :)

[22:54:33]

Beirdo:

yeah, for sure

[22:55:17]

ajisen:

if FC13 can solve the problem for me

[22:55:19]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Ajisen, a lot to do to accomplish that.

[22:55:22]

ajisen:

why not! I would upgrade

[22:55:30]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Ajisen, it won't solve the MythTV problem, necessarily.

[22:55:36]

ajisen:

that right

[22:55:43]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

But using an EOL distro is not secure

[22:55:44]

ajisen:

so if I have to still dig around and troubleshoot

[22:56:01]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Maybe rebuilding will help in an unanticipated way though.

[22:56:06]

ajisen:

GWG you have point

[22:56:09]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

IE reset something

[22:56:24]

Beirdo:

IE sucks

[22:56:37]

ajisen:

i will probably go back to tinkering again on FC13

[22:56:50]

ajisen:

boot that disk up and figure things out again the hard way :)

[22:56:54]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I know the manual is against it, but I sometimes dump the config data and only reimport the scheduling and watched program data.

[22:57:01]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

And reset all the settings.

[22:57:08]

** wagnerrp is still anxiously awaiting a response from bobnvic **

[22:57:19]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Beirdo, IE – for example

[22:57:20]

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[22:57:32]

Beirdo:

IE = Internet Explorer.

[22:57:40]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Not the IE I was referring to

[22:57:42]

Beirdo:

i.e. = as in.

[22:57:44]

ajisen:

IE= that is

[22:57:51]

Beirdo:

e.g. = for example

[22:58:02]

larzen:

Folks... does anyone know where I would go with some basic video capture development questions?

[22:58:12]

Beirdo:

IE in caps is not the same as i.e. :)

[22:58:20]

kormoc:

larzen, #linuxtv

[22:58:27]

larzen:

thankx!

[22:59:06]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Beirdo, you are correct. I always mix up i.e. and e.g.

[22:59:34]

ajisen:

but we understood what he meant :)

[22:59:56]

ajisen:

btw! hvr1300 analogue sucks

[23:00:05]

ajisen:

no audio

[23:00:10]

Beirdo:

yeah, I just felt like being a pedantic old fart

[23:00:48]

ajisen:

so I don't want to go back to using another analogue tuner when I have pvr-150

[23:02:17]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I should know better

[23:02:20]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I have a teaching license

[23:02:34]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

If I ever used it, I might set a bad example for the kids.

[23:02:51]

sphery:

oops, 2.8GHz

[23:03:13]

** sphery is confusing his 240 and 250 **

[23:04:46]

Beirdo:

GadgetWisdomGuru: not to worry. My dad woulda chewed me out for an hour likely... He's a retired languages teacher :)

[23:05:03]

Beirdo:

I do things wrong specifically to set him off at times :)

[23:05:24]

kormoc:

Beirdo, tis is how the world works

[23:05:29]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Beirdo, I'm the son of an elementary school teacher and a high school physics teacher

[23:05:56]

Beirdo:

it's always fun to give family a wee bit of a hard time at times

[23:06:02]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I do.

[23:06:14]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

But how do you piss off a physics teacher?

[23:06:19]

Beirdo:

It'd be like telling kormoc just how cool Windows is :)

[23:06:20]

Beirdo:

hehe

[23:06:21]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I know how to piss him off as just a father.

[23:06:32]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Of course, my parents are both retired now

[23:06:35]

wagnerrp:

start talking about centrifugal forces

[23:06:55]

Beirdo:

you'd have to make incorrect statements about physics that you know better than :)

[23:07:30]

Beirdo:

go ccache

[23:07:30]

wagnerrp:

you know how to alienate a physics teacher?

[23:07:49]

wagnerrp:

show him the coordinate transforms that prove that centrifugal forces are real

[23:07:50]

Beirdo:

tell them science is a waste of time?

[23:08:27]

kormoc:

there's a million ways to piss of physic folks covered in xkcd

[23:08:33]

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[23:08:44]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I usually just talk to him about Linux

[23:08:47]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

That annoys him enough

[23:08:53]

Beirdo:

hehe

[23:09:05]

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[23:09:08]

kormoc:

is he a string or bang guy?

[23:10:30]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

He was a physics teacher, not a quantum physics teacher.

[23:10:43]

kormoc:

I'm sure he has an opinion

[23:10:45]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Besides, his masters is in medical biology

[23:10:54]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I'll be sure to ask him

[23:11:05]

kormoc:

I'm not a physics guy at all and I'm fully in favor of the mwave string theory, it makes complete sense to me

[23:11:23]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Got proof?

[23:11:30]

** kormoc laughs **

[23:11:50]

kormoc:

I can't do basic calc, there's no way I could write up any proof

[23:11:56]

sphery:

m-theory is trying too hard--there's a much simpler solution

[23:11:57]

wagnerrp:

which brane is your favorite?

[23:12:06]

wagnerrp:

i like the blue one

[23:12:35]

kormoc:

sphery, actually, mwave is a pretty simple solution :)

[23:12:38]

Beirdo:

heh

[23:12:44]

ajisen:

alright folks! I gotta get back to work now

[23:12:44]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, heh, blue is nice...

[23:12:46]

Beirdo:

beer is the solution

[23:13:06]

sphery:

kormoc: I have discovered a truly marvelous demonstration of this proposition that this IRC window is too narrow to contain.

[23:13:11]

ajisen:

I will comeby again if things works or don't on FC13

[23:13:42]

sphery:

now I just have to die and then I'll leave you all wondering for hundreds of years

[23:14:00]

sphery:

sphery's Last Theorem

[23:14:02]

kormoc:

Hehe

[23:14:07]

Beirdo:

sphery: we'll get hammered and forget all bout it

[23:14:11]

sphery:

heh

[23:14:13]

kormoc:

I doubt I have hundreds of years left to wonder on it tho

[23:14:20]

sphery:

but Beirdo's log /never/ forgets!

[23:14:27]

Beirdo:

heh

[23:14:38]

sphery:

your log is the margin of my notebook

[23:15:26]

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[23:15:37]

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[23:16:25]

Beirdo:

yahoo nat?

[23:16:31]

Beirdo:

interesting

[23:22:19]

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[23:33:58]

Beirdo:

2010-07–20 20:33:31.189 SSDPExtension::GetDeviceDesc – Host=192.168.1.5 Port=6544 UserAgent=Linux/2.6.18-lttng-0.6.41, UPnP/1.0 DIRECTV JHUPnP/1.0

[23:34:01]

Beirdo:

2010-07–20 20:33:31.189 SSDPExtension::GetDeviceDesc – Host=192.168.1.5 Port=6544 UserAgent=SEC_HHP_TV-32C550/1.0

[23:34:10]

Beirdo:

interesting

[23:34:19]

Beirdo:

seems that logging is already there :)

[23:34:32]

Beirdo:

and it seems my HD receiver had UPnP in it

[23:34:39]

Beirdo:

and is running Linux

[23:38:01]

Beirdo:

the second is my TV

[23:39:34]

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[23:39:37]

Beirdo:

ooooooh

[23:39:43]

Beirdo:

0 byte recording?

[23:40:16]

[R]:

i need a cheap upnp device

[23:40:24]

[R]:

but i dont know how much i'mn really willing to spend

[23:40:40]

Beirdo:

heh, my TV has one built in

[23:41:01]

[R]:

do they make smallish tvs with it?

[23:41:05]

[R]:

like 30" or so?

[23:41:12]

Beirdo:

mine's a 32"

[23:41:16]

Beirdo:

so yeah

[23:41:29]

[R]:

mmm

[23:41:32]

[R]:

what do you have?

[23:41:40]

Beirdo:

Samsung 32C550

[23:42:03]

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[23:42:05]

Beirdo:

and an HDPVR that seems to need a powercycle

[23:42:06]

Beirdo:

heh

[23:42:18]

[R]:

i never have problems with my hdpvr anymore

[23:42:22]

[R]:

it works flawlessly

[23:43:11]

Beirdo:

well, I'm assuming that's why I have 4 0-byte recordings today

[23:43:36]

larzen:

looks like linuxtv is zombied =)

[23:43:49]

larzen:

anyone here have any experience with programming video capture devices?

[23:45:12]

wagnerrp:

programming? as in driver programming?

[23:46:25]

Beirdo:

maybe we have, maybe not... why?

[23:48:03]

Beirdo:

ahhh. metaquestion

[23:48:17]

[R]:

Beirdo: all the tvs at the best buys with ethernet are $$$

[23:48:25]

Beirdo:

?

[23:48:48]

wagnerrp:

theyre all... wavy like...

[23:48:48]

Beirdo:

well, I guess it depends on your budget, etc

[23:49:09]

Beirdo:

and I wouldn't buy from Worst Buy anyways

[23:49:56]

larzen:

wagnerrp: not driver. Just a little binary that records a stream from /dev/video0 directly to a file

[23:50:13]

larzen:

cat /dev/video0 > test.mpg This is what I need my binary to do.

[23:50:23]

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[23:50:30]

[R]:

larzen: you need a whoole program just to run cat?

[23:50:37]

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[23:50:44]

Beirdo:

why do you need a binary? /bin/cat

[23:50:46]

Beirdo:

done

[23:50:47]

wagnerrp:

you need a proper card to do that

[23:50:56]

larzen:

wagnerrp: I have a PVR-150

[23:50:59]

wagnerrp:

take your current framegrabber

[23:51:05]

wagnerrp:

take it out to a field

[23:51:08]

wagnerrp:

smash it up a bit

[23:51:12]

wagnerrp:

play some rap music

[23:51:16]

[R]:

haha

[23:51:18]

[R]:

wagnerrp++

[23:51:21]

wagnerrp:

have some friends around to pull you off of it

[23:51:23]

Beirdo:

larzen: so... why do you need a binary?

[23:51:51]

larzen:

Beirdo: well I need to write the source to do it so that I can create a basic mono (c#) interface for it.

[23:52:09]

Beirdo:

why?

[23:52:16]

wagnerrp:

you want to program in c#? in linux?

[23:52:17]

[R]:

because C# is the awesomeness

[23:52:29]

larzen:

so I am looking for any examples that perhaps use ioctl and the sequence of events that need to happen

[23:52:38]

Beirdo:

you are creating a "need" that doesn't exist, it seems

[23:52:41]

larzen:

wagnerrp: yes – just a little open source project nothing more.

[23:52:55]

wagnerrp:

so why use c#?

[23:52:56]

Beirdo:

open, read, close

[23:53:04]

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[23:53:07]

Beirdo:

oh, and write

[23:53:09]

larzen:

Beirdo: have you seen any c/c++ examples?

[23:53:12]

wagnerrp:

yeah, any (decent) language should be able to read data in from a file

[23:53:20]

Beirdo:

you don't need any examples!

[23:53:21]

Beirdo:

hehe

[23:53:28]

Beirdo:

open /dev/video

[23:53:37]

Beirdo:

loop while data, read block of data

[23:53:38]

wagnerrp:

c, c++, perl, python, lisp, haskell, whatever_language_you_want

[23:53:40]

Beirdo:

open file

[23:53:45]

larzen:

Beirdo: no kidding =)

[23:53:49]

Beirdo:

write blocks of data to it

[23:53:56]

Beirdo:

close em both when done

[23:53:59]

[R]:

Beirdo: that program woudln't work

[23:54:06]

Beirdo:

sure it would

[23:54:07]

[R]:

Beirdo: you'll infintely loop

[23:54:13]

Beirdo:

that's the point

[23:54:16]

kormoc:

larzen, you might be better served in #c if you want a example written for you

[23:54:21]

[R]:

but you open the file after the loop...

[23:54:23]

Beirdo:

until you hit Ctrl-C

[23:54:24]

kormoc:

[R], it works as intended!

[23:54:27]

Beirdo:

yeah yeah

[23:54:35]

[R]:

kormoc: haha

[23:54:37]

larzen:

oh that's perfect then!!

[23:54:44]

Beirdo:

I was doing it as a basic example that the user can tweak

[23:54:45]

Beirdo:

hehe

[23:55:10]

larzen:

ok let me try this with just generic c first...

[23:55:15]

larzen:

shoudl take but a few min.

[23:55:22]

Beirdo:

obviously ya open input and output first, then loop with read->write

[23:55:37]

kormoc:

<?php $fp = fopen('/dev/video0', 'r'); while (!feof($fp)) echo fgets($fp);

[23:55:43]

[R]:

if you want ctrl c to stop, then you probably need a sig handler

[23:55:51]

Beirdo:

no you don't

[23:55:53]

Beirdo:

not in C

[23:55:59]

[R]:

kormoc: sweet... i'm not the only masochist that uses php for shell scripts?

[23:56:06]

kormoc:

[R], not at all

[23:56:10]

Beirdo:

Ctrl-C will send it SIGINT... which kills the program with no handler

[23:56:16]

Beirdo:

which closes the open files

[23:56:17]

[R]:

but you should clean up

[23:56:23]

kormoc:

[R], the os will

[23:56:36]

[R]:

clean up the handles... but what if you wanted to clean up other stuff

[23:56:59]

Beirdo:

then you can go ahead and do so

[23:57:00]

Beirdo:

:)

[23:57:04]

Beirdo:

I don't care

[23:57:12]

Beirdo:

cat /dev/video0 > file

[23:57:16]

Beirdo:

works great

[23:57:46]

kormoc:

<?php system('cat /dev/video0 > file');

[23:57:56]

[R]:

HAHA

[23:57:57]

Beirdo:

heeh

[23:58:05]

[R]:

kormoc: is the ?> optional?

[23:58:13]

kormoc:

int main(void) { system('cat /dev/video0 > file'); return; }

[23:58:23]

Beirdo:

heheh

[23:58:23]

kormoc:

[R], yes, and it's best practice to leave it off

[23:58:30]

[R]:

kormoc: really?

[23:58:32]

wagnerrp:

[R]: sure, it runs forward until it hits an error

[23:58:44]

wagnerrp:

if it errors at the end of the file, no one cares

[23:59:04]

kormoc:

[R], any white space after the ?> will get sent out which can break headers being sent to the client and is a major pita to track down

[23:59:38]

[R]:

oh... makes sense

[23:59:49]

[R]:

but i'm super anal about trailing white space

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