Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Wednesday, July 21st, 2010, 00:00 AST

[00:00:07]

kormoc:

as am I, but others aren't, hence the 'rule'

[00:00:19]

[R]:

i always do "/ $" in vim

[00:00:26]

kormoc:

domain tools paid me at least 5k to trace down three new lines once

[00:00:35]

[R]:

thats pretty sweet

[00:00:40]

kormoc:

not for them :P

[00:00:47]

[R]:

lol

[00:00:52]

kormoc:

all cause someone left in some whitespace in some files somewhere

[00:01:14]

Beirdo:

kormoc: were the files called blah-jobsecurity.php?

[00:01:22]

kormoc:

Beirdo, heh, sadly not

[00:01:37]

Beirdo:

dang, woulda been easier to find

[00:02:08]

Big_D_271 (Big_D_271!~darren@cpe-24-94-94-133.hawaii.res.rr.com) has joined #mythtv-users

[00:02:21]

Big_D_271:

anyone know if I can use my PVR-350 in Mythbuntu? I used to use on a Knoppmyth R5.5 box using the TV out feature of the card. I would like to run Mythbuntu so that I can also do Boxee. Please Help

[00:02:53]

wagnerrp:

doesnt boxee require opengl? or is that only xbmc?

[00:02:55]

[R]:

tv out was removed from myth a while ago

[00:03:05]

[R]:

otherwise, myth works with wahtever linuxtv supports

[00:03:27]

wagnerrp:

you can capture off a PVR-350, you dont want to output through a PVR-350

[00:03:44]

kormoc:

there's a generic x driver for pvr-350 output, but boxee will not like it

[00:03:55]

Big_D_271:

what is the best AGP. or PCI card to use for tv out?

[00:04:00]

Big_D_271:

Nvidia?

[00:04:00]

[R]:

does anyone here have epix and/or used epixhd.com?

[00:04:09]

kormoc:

larzen, cat source code fyi, http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/coreutils.git/tree/src/cat.c

[00:04:10]

wagnerrp:

nvidia, the newer, the better

[00:04:26]

Beirdo:

Big_D_271: AGP!?

[00:04:26]

kormoc:

AGP... PCI... I always forget such tech still exists

[00:04:40]

Beirdo:

PCI – nvidia 9500GT

[00:04:41]

Big_D_271:

lol.. yeah.. it's an older machine.

[00:04:48]

Beirdo:

AGP, good luck

[00:04:57]

Big_D_271:

yeah.. thanks Beirdo

[00:05:08]

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[00:05:11]

Beirdo:

they aren't easy to find, but possible :)

[00:05:17]

Big_D_271:

i'll have a look around.. looks like if I want Boxee, I need a better card to tV out

[00:05:47]

wagnerrp:

PCI will only work if you are using content that can do VDPAU

[00:05:51]

Beirdo:

OK, myth is recording again

[00:05:58]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: hence the 9500GT :)

[00:06:06]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: content, not card

[00:06:21]

wagnerrp:

if the content isnt supported by VDPAU, youre going to be sending raw video

[00:06:25]

Beirdo:

yeah, but without the card, the content would be irrelevant :)

[00:06:33]

Beirdo:

true

[00:06:42]

wagnerrp:

720p over PCI is pushing it

[00:06:50]

kormoc:

Beirdo, do you know of a usb based power switch?

[00:06:50]

[R]:

but he said pvr350

[00:06:51]

[R]:

so its sd

[00:06:54]

wagnerrp:

and probably impossible with a busmastering 350

[00:07:00]

[R]:

kormoc: my dad made me one

[00:07:07]

[R]:

kormoc: with a 5v relay

[00:07:10]

Beirdo:

kormoc: umm, not that I know of, but that could be useful

[00:07:11]

Big_D_271:

yeah.. SD is all i'm doing

[00:07:12]

wagnerrp:

[R]: well he wants boxee for something

[00:07:17]

wagnerrp:

maybe hes pulling HD from elsewhere

[00:07:19]

Big_D_271:

can a PCI video card still hanle?

[00:07:31]

kormoc:

Beirdo, my hdpvr is locking up every day or so, it'd be useful to script powercycling it....

[00:07:41]

Beirdo:

oh wow, nasty

[00:08:00]

Beirdo:

it shouldn't be too hard to slap one together, much like [R] was saying

[00:08:02]

[R]:

kormoc: my bakcned shuts down when its idle and when it turns off the usb power turns off, and trigger the relay

[00:08:09]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: serial control with a relay?

[00:08:24]

wagnerrp:

ah, yeah... hes suggesting the same thing

[00:08:27]

[R]:

kormoc: theres also instructions online for making a relay controlled by a parallel port

[00:08:52]

kormoc:

yeah, all I have are usb ports

[00:09:20]

[R]:

well controlling it is tricky... but if you jsut rely on the power on the port with on/off on the computer, it works perfect

[00:09:25]

Beirdo:

well, USB->Serial plus serial controlled relay, perhaps

[00:09:40]

[R]:

that would work too, but complicated

[00:10:00]

wagnerrp:

[R]: that only works if you dont enable wake-on-usb

[00:10:06]

[R]:

yeah

[00:10:09]

wagnerrp:

can you control the power per-port?

[00:10:09]

kormoc:

nah, I want to be able to have the computer power it around

[00:10:12]

[R]:

no

[00:10:12]

Beirdo:

or use an FTDI USB UART chip, but just use the GPIO out

[00:10:22]

[R]:

i was lucky that my board wasn't putting power on the usb

[00:10:31]

[R]:

but additionally i'm actually using a usb pci card

[00:11:13]

Beirdo:

I could potentially come up with a small design to do taht sorta thing

[00:11:36]

Beirdo:

I may end up requiring such fun too

[00:12:16]

Beirdo:

be nice to use the power cable from the HDPVR, and have a cable out to the HDPVR (power from the wall-wart)

[00:12:43]

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[00:12:57]

Hilikus:

hey guys

[00:13:23]

[R]:

i would kill for an hdpvr in pci form

[00:13:36]

Beirdo:

[R] I like mine in USB form

[00:13:57]

[R]:

but its so freakin flaky

[00:14:09]

Beirdo:

that's not because of it being USB, I bet

[00:14:10]

Big_D_271:

Beirdo any bid dif b/w 8 series and 9 nvidia if i'm only doing SD?

[00:14:11]

kormoc:

I doubt it's the usb part

[00:14:18]

Big_D_271:

*big sorry

[00:14:31]

[R]:

my dad always has lovely things to say about electronics designers

[00:14:40]

Beirdo:

Big_D_271: probably not that much. But try to get one that's capable of VDPAU to be sure :)

[00:14:52]

Hilikus:

when i go to upcoming recordings there's nothing

[00:14:56]

[R]:

he always says he would have gotten fired if he designed some of the crap that people make

[00:15:06]

Beirdo:

heh

[00:15:06]

[R]:

Hilikus: so set some rules

[00:15:07]

Hilikus:

a DB check says everything's fine

[00:15:26]

Hilikus:

if i go to recording schedules i still see all my rules

[00:15:46]

Hilikus:

and if i go to listings i see there are shows there that should be recorded

[00:15:46]

Beirdo:

kormoc: just need to switch on/off the one device, right?

[00:15:58]

kormoc:

Beirdo, aye

[00:16:07]

wagnerrp:

ive got one

[00:16:14]

Hilikus:

and if go to recording schedules and tell it to find showings of the show it finds them, but it just doesn't say they will be recorded

[00:16:19]

wagnerrp:

tear open an old CD/DVD drive

[00:16:19]

kormoc:

Hilikus, restart the backend?

[00:16:28]

wagnerrp:

tie some bare wire to the drive tray

[00:16:44]

Hilikus:

the backend seems fine, i can watch my old recordings

[00:16:48]

Hilikus:

but i'll try that

[00:16:50]

wagnerrp:

use the tray controls in linux to open and close the tray/circuit

[00:17:02]

Beirdo:

kormoc: I'll have to slap a circuit together, see what it would take to build using parts from digikey :)

[00:17:06]

[R]:

wagnerrp: open/close is momentary i would think

[00:17:30]

kormoc:

[R], he's saying to position it so when it's open it would hit the switch

[00:17:32]

wagnerrp:

open and close on a drive is a good two seconds

[00:17:37]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: I doubt kormoc wants to use arcing as his primary method of shut down

[00:17:46]

wagnerrp:

:)

[00:17:46]

Hilikus:

oh, when i try to watch live tv it says. mythtv is using all inputs but there are no active recordings

[00:17:51]

[R]:

i guess if all you wanted to do was cycle the power

[00:17:52]

[R]:

that would work

[00:18:02]

Hilikus:

what can cause that?

[00:18:13]

wagnerrp:

no, im saying you cut the power line

[00:18:18]

wagnerrp:

and run bare wires inside the drive

[00:18:19]

Beirdo:

yeah :)

[00:18:20]

[R]:

Hilikus: are you tuners listed in the backend status page?

[00:18:32]

wagnerrp:

such that when the tray is closed, the circuit is closed

[00:18:48]

kormoc:

ha

[00:18:51]

Hilikus:

encoder status has nothing in it. is that it?

[00:18:52]

wagnerrp:

when the tray is open, the bare wires are no longer touching, and the HDPVR shuts down

[00:19:09]

kormoc:

yeah, not really gonna do that :P

[00:19:32]

Beirdo:

sounds like fun, but I'd pass

[00:19:59]

wagnerrp:

thats some burn-your-house-down kind of hacker genius inspiration right there

[00:20:06]

Hilikus:

damnit!

[00:20:06]

[R]:

well turning off the computer and cycling power on the hdpvr does work wonders... i can verify that

[00:20:22]

[R]:

i once had the ocmputer off... and the blue lights on the hdpvr were on

[00:20:25]

kormoc:

just power cycling fixes it (on the hdpvr)

[00:20:28]

Beirdo:

hmm, the FT232 devel board is $20

[00:20:30]

[R]:

still not sure how that happened

[00:20:36]

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[00:20:51]

kormoc:

I unplugged the internal lights

[00:20:55]

Beirdo:

that's not too bad... just need a relay.

[00:20:57]

kormoc:

which also turned off the fan

[00:21:06]

kormoc:

which is why i think it's locking up, with the heat lately

[00:21:11]

Beirdo:

ahhh

[00:21:14]

[R]:

i'm too fraid to open mine up

[00:21:16]

[R]:

was it hard?

[00:21:22]

Beirdo:

I'm living with the blue ring of joy

[00:21:27]

[R]:

(thats what she said)

[00:21:32]

kormoc:

[R], not at all, remove 4 sticker pads, 4 screws, that's it

[00:21:34]

Beirdo:

it's going in the cabinet soon

[00:21:45]

[R]:

i keep mine in my closet

[00:21:52]

kormoc:

[R], the light/fan is a standard plug, so you can plug/unplug as you wish

[00:21:59]

[R]:

yeah, i saw pics online

[00:22:25]

Hilikus:

my problem started on the 15th. i still have tv listings from that date. is there any way to see watch shows i missed?

[00:22:34]

Hilikus:

what*

[00:23:38]

[R]:

why does my frontend say "The server uses network protocol version 23056, but this client only understands version 56."... did the way the number was created chnage? cuz i know there wasn't 23000 revisions

[00:23:38]

Hilikus:

like a retroactive sim scheduling?

[00:24:41]

wagnerrp:

[R]: upgrade the rest of your systems

[00:24:58]

[R]:

wagnerrp: i know, i'm in the process... the difference in the numbers is the question... not why im getting it

[00:25:02]

wagnerrp:

there was a protocol change in fixes

[00:25:16]

wagnerrp:

and rather than cause confusion with jumping protocols

[00:25:23]

wagnerrp:

the new one in fixes just got a massive bump

[00:25:27]

[R]:

ah

[00:25:51]

wagnerrp:

speaking of which

[00:26:16]

wagnerrp:

kormoc, Beirdo: for next time this happens, it was decided we start appending letters

[00:26:33]

wagnerrp:

if you want to take care of mythweb/perl and make sure they support strings

[00:26:48]

Beirdo:

ugh

[00:26:50]

wagnerrp:

when i checked in there a couple days ago, both of them were using integer values

[00:26:52]

Beirdo:

but why?

[00:27:13]

Beirdo:

if you must append SOMETHING... append .1, .2, etc

[00:27:19]

Beirdo:

make it floating point :)

[00:27:27]

wagnerrp:

well that wont work either

[00:27:33]

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[00:27:34]

wagnerrp:

(unless you do it as a string)

[00:27:52]

Beirdo:

why must we break things?

[00:27:53]

wagnerrp:

floating point doesnt support exact decimal values

[00:27:57]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, just wrap it in quotes and all is good in php land

[00:28:01]

Beirdo:

am I missing something?

[00:28:31]

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[00:28:36]

wagnerrp:

in python and C, 56.1 != 561/10

[00:28:43]

Beirdo:

heh

[00:28:45]

wagnerrp:

dont know how perl/php handle floats

[00:28:46]

Beirdo:

fair enough

[00:28:52]

Beirdo:

ok ok

[00:29:03]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, loose and fast

[00:29:07]

Beirdo:

but what is wrong with our current scheme?

[00:29:12]

kormoc:

Beirdo, -fixes got a protocol bump

[00:29:20]

kormoc:

Beirdo, we don't want a -fixes connecting to a -trunk

[00:29:25]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: a couple years down the line, the next time -fixes gets a proto bump

[00:29:34]

Beirdo:

ahhh

[00:29:38]

wagnerrp:

we want to do a 74b, 74c, etc...

[00:29:44]

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[00:29:46]

[R]:

kormoc: why not just check the version string also?

[00:29:49]

Beirdo:

by then, we might be using a real protocol :)

[00:29:59]

wagnerrp:

maybe

[00:30:05]

Beirdo:

but cool

[00:30:08]

kormoc:

[R], that's way more work then adding '' to the php file

[00:30:14]

[R]:

HAHA

[00:30:16]

Beirdo:

be sure to put in a ticket for both, I guess

[00:30:19]

wagnerrp:

this is more of a 'whenever you get around to it'

[00:30:26]

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[00:30:34]

Beirdo:

we'll get to it eventually... like JUST as it's required :)

[00:30:44]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: yeah, the python change amounted to that, and changing a %d to a %s in one of the print statements

[00:31:00]

sphery:

Is there any reason mythlink.pl should force 755 permissions on dirs it creates? Wouldn't it make more sense to respect umask?

[00:31:12]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, [25389

[00:31:19]

Beirdo:

sphery: it WOULD, yeah

[00:31:26]

sphery:

more sense?

[00:31:36]

Beirdo:

it would make more sense to use umask

[00:31:42]

sphery:

cool

[00:31:47]

kormoc:

users don't understand umask

[00:31:53]

sphery:

I'm too tired--confusing myself

[00:31:55]

kormoc:

even tho it's the user's mask

[00:32:04]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: you sure made quick work of that, thanks!

[00:32:05]

wagnerrp:

:)

[00:32:15]

Beirdo:

well, defaulting to using 755 is great.... if the user doesn't override it

[00:32:31]

wagnerrp:

does the permissions on symlinks really matter?

[00:32:34]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, it was a tough battle!

[00:32:35]

Beirdo:

nope

[00:32:38]

sphery:

no, but mythlink.pl creates dirs

[00:32:46]

wagnerrp:

i mean you still cant access it unless you have access to the referenced file

[00:32:54]

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[00:32:55]

sphery:

symlinks are always 777 and pass through perms on the linked file

[00:33:05]

Hilikus:

so no reason to see what episodes would've been recorded in previous days if the listings are still there?

[00:33:22]

kormoc:

Hilikus, I wouldn't think so

[00:33:36]

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[00:33:36]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: I'll go take a look at the perl bindings... shouldn't be hard

[00:33:53]

Beirdo:

but if you could pop in a ticket so I don't forget it :)

[00:34:01]

sphery:

but I want to run mythlink.pl as my user and mythlink.pl --chanid %CHANID% --starttime %STARTTIME% as mythtv user, so I need to set perms to 775

[00:34:11]

wagnerrp:

will do

[00:34:17]

Beirdo:

thanks :)

[00:34:17]

sphery:

or 770--key point being write on group perm

[00:34:18]

wagnerrp:

as mentioned, no rush, whenever you get around to it

[00:34:39]

Beirdo:

and it gives you something to slap me with later if I don't get to it soon

[00:35:09]

sphery:

so does that mean I shouldn't change it from hard-coded 755 to respecing umask?

[00:35:43]

kormoc:

sphery, they're symlinks, so just don't bother setting them at all

[00:35:48]

wagnerrp:

im just a messenger here

[00:35:48]

sphery:

for the paths

[00:35:49]

sphery:

the dirs

[00:35:56]

kormoc:

ooh

[00:36:03]

kormoc:

yeah, just use the defaults imho

[00:36:10]

sphery:

defaults meaning umask?

[00:36:14]

kormoc:

yeah

[00:36:16]

Beirdo:

it's the umask for the dir that's at question, and if I were you, I'd respect umask

[00:36:16]

sphery:

cool

[00:36:19]

Beirdo:

:)

[00:36:53]

sphery:

good.. I like that and it makes my life easier (no adding patches to mythlink.pl for my own install)

[00:37:00]

sphery:

thanks

[00:37:46]

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[00:37:48]

Beirdo:

no problemo

[00:40:32]

Beirdo:

blah.

[00:40:33]

sphery:

OK, how about a compromise on the side of security...

[00:40:45]

sphery:

0775 but modified by umask

[00:40:47]

Beirdo:

do we really CARE if the regexp used is minimal or not?

[00:41:11]

sphery:

so with 0022, the dir is 0755 and with 0002 the dir is 0775 or with 0000 the dir is 0775

[00:41:30]

sphery:

by "minimal" did he mean non-greedy?

[00:41:43]

** wagnerrp wonders if sphery is being a bit too OCD with security with something mythtv is involved in **

[00:41:46]

Beirdo:

he intentionally changed my patch

[00:42:05]

Beirdo:

from ^http://.*?/ to ^http://.*/

[00:42:22]

Beirdo:

and did setMinimal on it

[00:42:23]

Beirdo:

why?

[00:42:42]

wagnerrp:

of anyone can connect to the backend and delete whatever they want, do a couple symlinks matter?

[00:42:57]

sphery:

he's minimizing your efforts

[00:43:07]

sphery:

wagnerrp: heh, yeah

[00:43:20]

sphery:

could just do 0777 – umask

[00:44:55]

Beirdo:

ahhhh

[00:45:01]

Beirdo:

it's because Qt is stupid

[00:45:02]

Beirdo:

hehe

[00:45:16]

Beirdo:

that's the equivalent...

[00:45:40]

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[00:45:42]

wagnerrp:

oh here we go again

[00:45:45]

sphery:

yeah, qt regex is ugly

[00:45:50]

wagnerrp:

BASH users futzing in the database

[00:45:56]

sphery:

yay

[00:46:20]

wagnerrp:

http://www.mythtvtalk.com/forum/general/12710 . . . thvideo.html

[00:46:29]

Beirdo:

qt is craptacular.

[00:46:34]

Beirdo:

haha

[00:46:47]

Beirdo:

tell the putzes to make tickets against nuvexport

[00:49:32]

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[00:49:35]

wagnerrp:

its not that i have problems with bash as a language

[00:49:59]

wagnerrp:

i just find something inherently wrong with bash scripts of over half the size of the python bindings

[00:50:23]

wagnerrp:

oh, and larger than the perl bindings, by the way Beirdo

[00:50:26]

wagnerrp:

better get cracking

[00:50:31]

wagnerrp:

the bash guy is beating you

[00:50:32]

wagnerrp:

:P

[00:50:37]

sphery:

I can't believe you didn't rewrite mythlink.pl in python, yet

[00:51:06]

Beirdo:

the bash guy can beat himself all he wants

[00:51:34]

wagnerrp:

got no reason to rewrite existing programs in a decent language

[00:51:43]

wagnerrp:

unless you were planning i would take up maintenance on it

[00:51:57]

Beirdo:

hehe

[00:52:09]

Beirdo:

you aren't looking for needless challenges?

[00:53:46]

wagnerrp:

to be honest, most of the functionality is already in the bindings

[00:54:06]

wagnerrp:

it might take 40 lines, and a good portion of that would be command line handling

[00:56:34]

wagnerrp:

this thing isnt half bad

[00:56:51]

wagnerrp:

the mad basher seems to have worked up the basic shell of a set of bash bindings

[00:57:36]

wagnerrp:

tap into the TCP device to talk to the backend, and the transition will be complete

[01:00:12]

Beirdo:

hehe

[01:00:17]

Beirdo:

netcat, here we come

[01:01:14]

wagnerrp:

is netcat bidirectional?

[01:02:22]

sphery:

so he basically did the bash IRC client thing?

[01:02:33]

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[01:02:33]

wagnerrp:

no, theres no backend protocol support

[01:02:51]

sphery:

oh, he didn't, yet

[01:03:00]

wagnerrp:

but he has macro'd access to the database

[01:03:07]

wagnerrp:

its actually fairly clean

[01:03:34]

sphery:

http://alge.anart.no/linux/scripts/bairc-1.3.bash

[01:03:34]

wagnerrp:

... as clean as you can be when youre opening a new mysql process and connection to mysqld for each query

[01:03:42]

Beirdo:

hehe

[01:04:14]

sphery:

wouldn't it be more efficient to just run a single external process and grab all the data at once

[01:04:19]

wagnerrp:

the first person i see who opens a persistent pipe to use a sustained connection to mysql and thats it, game over, im done...

[01:04:21]

sphery:

like mysqldump

[01:04:34]

sphery:

then you can just use the data directly in bash after that

[01:05:36]

Beirdo:

OK, bug closed

[01:06:08]

sphery:

here Beirdo is wasting time fixing bugs while I'm just changing things that I want to change for myself

[01:06:18]

Beirdo:

I have a nice script I use to manage several branches in parallel in git :)

[01:07:06]

wagnerrp:

could be worse, im trying to figure out how^H^H^Hwhy someone wrote an XML parser in bash

[01:07:08]

sphery:

problem is that I have to wait 5min for my Athlon XP 2400+ backend to finish a mythlink.sh run so I can test the changes

[01:07:15]

sphery:

heh

[01:07:24]

Beirdo:

hehe

[01:07:42]

** Beirdo is watching last week's recordings **

[01:07:47]

sphery:

I'm guessing it's because there are so few XML parsers available and very limited support for XML parsing in other languages

[01:08:15]

wagnerrp:

must be, and as everyone knows, bash is designed for text processing

[01:08:19]

Beirdo:

hehe

[01:08:20]

sphery:

ype

[01:08:24]

sphery:

yep, even

[01:09:13]

sphery:

I think the nerves going to my left hand are a little bit longer than the ones going to my right hand... these multi-hand words often end up out of order

[01:09:43]

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[01:09:48]

[R]:

haha

[01:10:34]

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[01:11:11]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: still around?

[01:11:50]

Beirdo:

hmmm, how many amps does the HDPVR pull, and at what voltage?

[01:13:11]

Beirdo:

5V, 2A

[01:13:13]

Beirdo:

OK

[01:13:27]

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[01:14:11]

sphery:

heh, running 5x mythlink.pl --chanid --starttime on my Athlon XP 2400+ takes 1min 28s. Running 5x mythlink.pl (doing all links) takes about 5min

[01:14:13]

[R]:

frea,kin fox

[01:14:15]

[R]:

this is DEFINTELY not in hd

[01:14:34]

sphery:

starting to wonder if MythTV System Events is a bad idea for the little backend

[01:14:45]

sphery:

get 2 of those going at the same time...

[01:15:18]

wogri:

hi mythtv-users; I have searched the archives, but it seems I can't find what I'm looking for... is there a way to start live-tv watching directly from the command-line?

[01:15:42]

wagnerrp:

i think you can open directly to plugins, but not livetv

[01:15:51]

[R]:

livetv is evil

[01:15:54]

[R]:

i dont remember the last time i used it

[01:18:38]

sphery:

I think others have done so with a script that passes a jump command to the mythfrontend network interface

[01:18:59]

sphery:

but if what you want is Live TV, MythTV isn't what you should be using, IMHO

[01:19:28]

Beirdo:

heh

[01:19:31]

sphery:

wagnerrp: now I can't decide between 777 and 775...

[01:19:35]

Beirdo:

the command is mplayer :)

[01:19:42]

sphery:

that's definitely one of them

[01:21:27]

wagnerrp:

crap, the guy even implemented job control through process signals

[01:21:37]

wagnerrp:

ill give him this, the guy is through

[01:22:44]

Beirdo:

bash is fun

[01:22:49]

Beirdo:

but jeez

[01:23:12]

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[01:27:01]

sphery:

wagnerrp: now we just have to harness that motivation and redirect it toward a proper language

[01:28:25]

wagnerrp:

im going to give the guy some pointers

[01:28:40]

wagnerrp:

if you feed it jobid, no reason to give it chanid and starttime

[01:28:46]

wagnerrp:

and make sure to check schema revisions

[01:29:13]

wagnerrp:

but i cant think of a diplomatic way to suggest 'go back and try it in another language'

[01:30:18]

sphery:

heh, yeah

[01:30:24]

sphery:

especially with the size of it

[01:30:29]

Beirdo:

I dunno... how about "bash is teh suck!"

[01:30:51]

Beirdo:

tell him to redo it in tcsh

[01:30:52]

Beirdo:

hehe

[01:31:29]

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[01:31:39]

sphery:

hah

[01:31:47]

sphery:

Beirdo: you /wish/ :)

[01:32:02]

Beirdo:

oooh

[01:32:04]

Beirdo:

zsh

[01:32:06]

Beirdo:

or ksh

[01:32:09]

Beirdo:

there we go

[01:32:25]

sphery:

ash--so I can run it in busybox

[01:33:00]

Beirdo:

ash-... oh never mind

[01:33:19]

sphery:

though wish would be interesting

[01:33:31]

Beirdo:

tcl

[01:33:33]

Beirdo:

heh

[01:42:12]

sphery:

wagnerrp: I'm starting to wonder if Mr "Has anyone seen my database?" is using one of those broken distros with a network-initialization race condition (i.e. they start mythbackend before the network is initialized sometimes). Only problem with the theory is I can't explain how network could work for a bit and then stop (maybe because he's netbooting, so there's network, then the distro upstart resets network?)

[01:43:13]

wagnerrp:

no clue

[01:44:10]

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[02:08:53]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: the commflagger runs on your HDPVR content just fine, right?

[02:10:33]

Beirdo:

yup

[02:10:48]

Beirdo:

haven't seen issues yet... other than general slowness :)

[02:11:00]

wagnerrp:

ok, just confirming.... just told someone he was full of lies saying it didnt

[02:11:27]

Beirdo:

hehe

[02:11:32]

Beirdo:

it works fine here

[02:11:40]

Beirdo:

I am on trunk, but whatever

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[02:19:52]

sphery:

"[mythtv-users] Backend consolidation, round 3." guy really needs to chill

[02:20:15]

Beirdo:

heh

[02:20:32]

sphery:

or maybe to switch to Windows MCE or SageTV or ...

[02:20:44]

sphery:

he doesn't seem to get that MythTV is a hobby, not a DVR

[02:20:49]

Beirdo:

yeah

[02:21:15]

Beirdo:

awww. the user from #8678 is happy and appreciative :)

[02:21:52]

sphery:

yeah, nice to get good feedback for a change, isn't it?

[02:22:06]

Beirdo:

yeah :)

[02:22:59]

Beirdo:

hmmm, anyone have an HDPVR and a micrometer?

[02:23:12]

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[02:23:44]

Beirdo:

need to know the size of teh power jack :)

[02:23:51]

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[02:24:26]

Beirdo:

see, you're not the only one who does left/right hand syncopation, sphery :)

[02:25:44]

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[02:26:09]

wagnerrp:

oh, he does even check database schema version

[02:26:37]

Beirdo:

so much talent... wasted

[02:30:03]

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[02:30:53]

sphery:

Beirdo: heh, guess not

[02:31:21]

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[02:34:46]

wogri:

hi mythtv users; is there a way to start live-tv automatically instead of running the frontend?

[02:35:28]

[R]:

woah

[02:35:29]

[R]:

its like deja vu

[02:35:39]

Beirdo:

wogri: no

[02:35:48]

wogri:

or let's say is there a way to directly watch live tv in the frontend instead of having to use the keys to navigate...

[02:35:58]

wogri:

Beirdo: really, I can't believe this is a no :)

[02:36:17]

wagnerrp:

three devs, and one long time user gave you an answer you didnt like about an hour ago

[02:36:25]

wagnerrp:

its not likely that has changed in the mean time

[02:36:25]

[R]:

wogri: no one cares about livetv because myth is a dvr, not a tv watcher

[02:36:35]

wogri:

I see.

[02:36:39]

wogri:

hm.

[02:36:42]

wogri:

too bad :)

[02:36:48]

[R]:

wogri: you're more than welcome to submit a patch for it though

[02:36:54]

wogri:

thanks for the reply, I can at least stop searching for now.

[02:37:03]

wogri:

yeah, I might look into that, thanks a bunch.

[02:37:15]

[R]:

mythfrontend --livetv

[02:37:18]

[R]:

boom, 5 minutes

[02:37:31]

** [R] ponders doing it just to be THAT evil **

[02:37:37]

** [R] does the dr evil thing **

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[02:39:37]

Beirdo:

hmmm, someone's out smoking on their balcony

[02:39:47]

Beirdo:

bad person... should go get em evicted

[02:40:10]

[R]:

where else are they supposed to slowly kill their lungs?

[02:40:51]

wagnerrp:

agh... i have a nice list of suggestions for the guy

[02:41:00]

wagnerrp:

and i keep finding out that he has already implemented them

[02:41:24]

[R]:

wagnerrp: would a --livetv switch to frontend get committed yo uthink?

[02:41:41]

wagnerrp:

no

[02:41:42]

Beirdo:

not on the balcony here :)

[02:41:49]

wagnerrp:

but a --jumppoint switch probably would

[02:41:57]

Beirdo:

I should go light up a cigar... but I'd get caught

[02:42:02]

wagnerrp:

livetv being just one of many possible jumppoints

[02:42:03]

[R]:

wagnerrp: i like your thinking

[02:46:37]

rhollan:

join #freeradius

[02:46:46]

Beirdo:

no thanks

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** rhollan can't get his WPA/Enterprise auth working.. GGG **

[03:18:10]

rhollan:

GRRR

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justinh:

iamlindoro: nice reply on the ML re the A-Team guy

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justinh:

heh. "MythTV upstream project is becoming disfunctional". whatever that means

[04:18:50]

justinh:

ah just whining about the protocol ver change as if the decision was taken lightly

[04:19:33]

justinh:

yada yada yada MUST start cleaning up their act if they want to be included in ubuntu distros, blah

[04:19:58]

justinh:

yeah? well one thing matey – if you were still running the OFFICIAL ubuntu mythtv packages there'd be no protocol version change

[04:21:51]

justinh:

oh nice. he's also setup so you have to be logged in to make a comment. way to go whiny boy

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[06:48:34]

justinh:

I found the original thread. classic http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1535465

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[06:55:52]

oobe:

at first glance i thought they changed the version protocol number to a svn build revision number

[06:55:59]

oobe:

23056

[06:56:05]

oobe:

looks like it a bit

[06:57:08]

justinh:

people go on as if developers do this kind of stuff just to nark users

[06:59:00]

oobe:

well that makes sense too

[06:59:10]

oobe:

I mean do they really want us to be happy

[06:59:13]

oobe:

really

[07:00:05]

justinh:

ranting about bad design decisions & crap. Like no other software developer decided to go one way in the past & then subsequent contributors find that decision limits capacities somehow.. do they sit down & rewrite the whole thing the 'proper' way or just – because they're not experts or they're somehow 'lazy' just get it to work? muh muh muh

[07:01:12]

justinh:

these 'meh, I can draw diagrams' people get on my bits

[07:01:59]

justinh:

backseat drivers FTL

[07:03:38]

oobe:

lol

[07:11:15]

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benny_:

[off-topic] — bored writing documentation at work

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[08:19:10]

justinh:

wonder what the protocol bump was for anyway... time to go looksee

[08:21:46]

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[08:24:39]

justinh:

freeview to broadcast sky sports. GRRR. if it's pay TV it's not Freeview

[08:27:24]

justinh:

and in other news, Cillit Bang manufacturer buys Durex

[08:33:47]

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[08:41:26]

AndyCap:

Reckitt Benckiser?

[08:42:15]

justinh:

yup

[08:42:30]

hopper75:

I'm working on getting DVDs playing on a F13 machine. Added libdvdcss based on what I'd read. Looking for tips/suggestions/docs to finish the job.

[08:43:02]

justinh:

ruh?

[08:43:32]

justinh:

what does that have to do with mythtv exactly then?

[08:43:42]

hopper75:

I get this when I try and play DVDs in MythTV: Error reading block from DVD: Error reading NAV packet.

[08:44:59]

justinh:

ahh

[08:45:10]

justinh:

so yeah you likely just needed to install the css thingy

[08:46:19]

hopper75:

yeah, I grabbed the source, installed it. Still getting the error so I think there's something extra I need to do to tell MythTV to use it. I didn't see anything obvious in the frontend set up. Hoping someone can point me in the right direction.

[08:46:36]

justinh:

f13 doesn't have a binary of it anywhere? eew

[08:46:57]

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[08:47:20]

hopper75:

There's an extra repository that can provide it. I wanted to try the source first and avoid yet another repository. (default + rpmfusion already).

[08:47:40]

hopper75:

My machine is still stable, but I don't want to push my luck too hard. :-)

[08:47:49]

justinh:

maybe you need to ldconfig

[08:47:50]

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[08:48:11]

hopper75:

Hmm, I have it in /usr/local/lib and ldconfig already looks there. I'll double check just to be sure.

[08:48:53]

justinh:

fwiw I think it's prolly not a bad idea avoiding mixing repos as much as you can. I've heard about that 'dependency hell

[08:50:13]

hopper75:

whoohoo! Turned out I hadn't added a setting for ldconfig on this box. That's all it was. Thanks very much!

[08:50:44]

hopper75:

Now I can avoid sticky greasy finger prints on the kids dvds.... this is a BIG deal. :)

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[08:51:46]

hopper75:

Very glad I didn't have to add the extra repository. rpmfusion is all that's needed (+ libdvdcss from source).

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justinh:

oo that's not nice. I have a friend who is blind, and also a fan of apple. apple techies advising re-installing the OS to make itunes sync an iphone? :-O

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AndyCap:

hopper75: you know. extra repos aren't the problem. Bad repos are.

[09:48:27]

AndyCap:

hopper75: and livna only has one package now, libdvdcss, since some rpmfusion contributors didn't want to touch it

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[10:37:58]

jams:

look at that, sphery is targetting another setting that I happen to use.

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janneg is now known as chris_jg

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[11:19:09]

chris_jg:

wagnerrp: I should have persists on my veto powers

[11:20:13]

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[11:25:13]

wagnerrp:

the committee of chris... :)

[11:29:54]

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[11:33:19]

larzen1:

folks.. I've asked some questions about IVTV-enabled cards yesterday and after some reading and running v4l2 source samples, I am finding that they are indeed quite differet from other cards..

[11:33:47]

wagnerrp:

when mythtv records off an IVTV mpeg encoder card, it reads the mpeg2 stream directly

[11:33:53]

larzen1:

One user here suggested to open a ifstream/ofstream to copy from /dev/video0 directly into an mpeg fiel (i.e. cat /dev/video0 > myfile.mpg) which worked!

[11:34:04]

wagnerrp:

there is very little reason to ever mess around with the framegrabber capabilities of that card

[11:34:45]

larzen1:

wagnerrp: so my approach about doing a straight copy (in a thread) is actually correct?

[11:35:35]

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[11:35:51]

wagnerrp:

yes, thats how you should read from IVTV cards

[11:36:17]

larzen1:

wagnerrp: perfect. I have another question for you – this one is on a slightly different topic if you don't mind.

[11:37:05]

larzen1:

All this is for analog streams, which as you know are sort of antique by now. However, my cable provider doesnt provide a clear QAM signal, and forces us to buy a set-top-box

[11:38:05]

wagnerrp:

they must provide a clear qam signal

[11:38:15]

larzen1:

my question is as follows: so if I want to have hdtv (720p) using an HVR-2250 type card, how would i do my setup?

[11:38:23]

wagnerrp:

oh, youre canadian, no they dont

[11:38:29]

larzen1:

yes =(

[11:38:40]

wagnerrp:

you want to... capture analog using an HVR-2250?

[11:38:42]

larzen1:

so I am stuck with Analog or TWO set top boxes with ir blasters

[11:38:57]

larzen1:

wagnerrp: hvr-2250 didnt support analog 6 months ago

[11:39:01]

larzen1:

not sure if it got added in yet.

[11:39:03]

wagnerrp:

and it still doesnt

[11:39:06]

larzen1:

right now I have pvr-150s

[11:40:11]

larzen1:

so essentially my own option is to IR blast STBs

[11:40:35]

larzen1:

and read from the Video/audio channels – where my milage will vary...

[11:40:39]

larzen1:

or stay analog =)

[11:40:43]

J-e-f-f-A:

larzen1: you can only capture an SD signal (480i) with your PVR-150s. If you want to capture HD, you'll need HD-PVRs to capture the component output from your cable STB

[11:40:50]

wagnerrp:

basically

[11:41:02]

olejl:

anyone got this card working with linux / mythtv: http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Mystique_SaTiX-S2_Dual?

[11:41:12]

larzen1:

J-e-f-f-A: yessir =)

[11:41:34]

larzen1:

i've had the ir blast thing working before for digital cable...

[11:41:38]

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[11:41:48]

larzen1:

and the STB's OSD would get in the way.. nasty stuff.

[11:43:08]

J-e-f-f-A:

larzen1: Unless there's clear QAM available to you to be able to tune with a QAM tuner such as the 2250, then the HD-PVR is your only option to get HD into your myth box.

[11:43:35]

J-e-f-f-A:

larzen1: Just add an 'exit' or 'cancel' command to your IR channel-change script – that gets rid of the OSD quickly.

[11:44:20]

clever:

J-e-f-f-A: with my stb, if you dial 2 0 exit, it will cancle the channel change because i didnt dial a full 3/4 digits

[11:44:24]

larzen1:

J-e-f-f-A: you have this setup working?

[11:44:30]

clever:

so i also had an add an ok to force the channel change

[11:44:53]

larzen1:

IR blast seems like such a flaky way of doing it. I wish there was a cleaner more reliable way to access the STB

[11:45:36]

clever:

yeah, mine keeps recording channel 2 on ocasion

[11:45:53]

clever:

i put together a usb webcam and some scripts to verify things, but its still buggy

[11:46:25]

wagnerrp:

larzen1: you can use firewire or serial, if thats available

[11:46:28]

clever:

firewire channel changing seems much more reliable, and basicaly does the exact same thing, fakes key presses

[11:47:08]

J-e-f-f-A:

larzen1: I'm in the US, and have two STB's feeding HD-PVRs. I use Firewire for channel changing, but it's basically the same as IR, I stil send the 'cancel' command to get the OSD off quickly.

[11:47:26]

anykey_:

olejl: yeah, works perfectly

[11:48:09]

larzen1:

J-e-f-f-A: what STB model do you have?

[11:48:14]

J-e-f-f-A:

larzen1: IR isn't as bad as it's reputation... I used it for the previous ~5 years with very few issues, and those were just when I was getting it setup basically...

[11:48:23]

J-e-f-f-A:

larzen1: Motorola QIP-7100

[11:48:27]

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[11:48:28]

olejl:

anykey_: I read the wiki and it is supposed to use the ngene driver, but I am not able to compile it http://pastebin.com/PjrvWnti

[11:48:45]

J-e-f-f-A:

larzen1: basically a close-cousin to the 6200

[11:50:11]

larzen1:

J-e-f-f-A: reading about it now

[11:50:17]

larzen1:

to see if we have it here with Shaw Cable

[11:50:30]

anykey_:

olejl: can't help you with that right now

[11:50:31]

larzen1:

even thene, these asses shut all the ports down on those.

[11:50:56]

J-e-f-f-A:

larzen1: careful with the language please.

[11:51:10]

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[11:51:11]

olejl:

anykey_: np, good to know that it is possible at least.

[11:53:20]

larzen1:

J-e-f-f-A: no problem. Does the mpeg stream come through the firewire port?

[11:53:27]

wagnerrp:

yes

[11:53:48]

larzen1:

wagnerrp: on the QIP-7100 ?

[11:53:58]

J-e-f-f-A:

larzen1: I haven't tried – chances are that it's encrypted, so I haven't bothered. I have HD-PVRs. ;-)

[11:54:23]

larzen1:

there are winows users trying this out and reporitng some limited success on 32-bit systmes.

[11:54:26]

wagnerrp:

on all firewire

[11:54:31]

J-e-f-f-A:

larzen1: but as wagnerrp says, it should get passed through.

[11:54:36]

wagnerrp:

firewire doesnt have the bandwidth to send uncompressed HD video

[11:56:02]

larzen1:

i see. so we are talking about some mpeg-2/4 type stream

[11:56:05]

J-e-f-f-A:

larzen1: Here in the US, the firewire outputs are protected with 5C – and virtually everything is protected...

[11:56:21]

larzen1:

5C being the encryption

[11:56:51]

J-e-f-f-A:

larzen1: only the OTA channels are required to be in-the-clear, and sometimes those aren't even in the clear...

[11:58:45]

J-e-f-f-A:

larzen1: exactly. So, the HD-PVRs work perfectly, as they capture the Analog Component HD outputs from the STB and encode to h.264

[12:00:09]

J-e-f-f-A:

larzen1: The only drawback for me is that it takes A LOT more CPU to commflag h.264... My Athlon 64 X2 6000+ used to be able to do it in real-time with SD MPEG2 recordings, now struggles to keep up with the h.264 recordings from the HD-PVRs (but it does still work, just takes much longer...)

[12:00:33]

larzen1:

oh right – i havent even played with commflag

[12:00:36]

J-e-f-f-A:

larzen1: Thank God for VDPAU!!!! ;-)

[12:00:58]

larzen1:

but VDPAU is mostly for playback as I understand

[12:00:59]

J-e-f-f-A:

larzen1: I don't know how accurate it is in Canada, but it's pretty accurate here in the US – probably in the high 90's...

[12:01:22]

larzen1:

commflag mainly banks on blackspace right?

[12:01:34]

larzen1:

combination of black frames and time limts (5 min?)

[12:01:38]

J-e-f-f-A:

larzen1: Yes, vdpau is entrirely for playback at the moment... perhaps the CUDA interface can be used for transcoding at some point in the future, but nothing has hit the mainstream yet (AFAIK)

[12:02:03]

larzen1:

J-e-f-f-A: so I take it SAT is same – no clear QAM..

[12:02:21]

larzen1:

i mean, I would be fine with an STB or a converter that takes these encrypted channels and blasts our clear QAM

[12:02:27]

J-e-f-f-A:

SAT is a wholeother ballgame...

[12:02:30]

larzen1:

out = put.

[12:03:39]

J-e-f-f-A:

No, there are no STBs that I know of 'output' clear QAM for tuning with a 'standard' HD tuner.

[12:05:03]

J-e-f-f-A:

larzen1: It's either HDMI, Component Analog, or SD outputs (S-Video, Composite, RF)

[12:06:11]

wagnerrp:

J-e-f-f-A: more likely it would use OpenCL than CUDA

[12:06:35]

larzen1:

the other cable prover is the old phone comapny Telus, they have these IPN430 boxes ... that run a SIGNA-schip

[12:06:38]

larzen1:

SIGMA chip

[12:07:12]

J-e-f-f-A:

wagnerrp: yah, that's right. ;-)

[12:07:20]

larzen1:

there are ways to root he firmware out and put your own sigma-based Linux OS on them, but that completely destroys the box =).

[12:07:24]

J-e-f-f-A:

larzen1: is that an IPTV box? Sounds like it.

[12:07:35]

larzen1:

yes it is =)

[12:07:56]

wagnerrp:

larzen1: open source projects cannot use the Sigma chip

[12:08:02]

larzen1:

I've had a stack of them from a friend of mine who works for a telco ... so I got to play with JTAGs and all that.

[12:08:09]

wagnerrp:

as Sigma Designs has not openly released documentation on their hardware

[12:08:25]

wagnerrp:

you would have to completely reverse engineer the interface from scratch

[12:08:33]

J-e-f-f-A:

larzen1: Well, I also have an SD IPTV box feeding a PVR-150, controlled by IR. It works well...

[12:09:02]

larzen1:

i was going to say.. not much success on my part.

[12:09:12]

larzen1:

not much detail on "hacking" these.

[12:09:12]

wagnerrp:

any information that you may have gotten would be under an NDA

[12:09:42]

wagnerrp:

and carries serious repercussions on your friend, or whoever higher up the chain signed the NDA

[12:09:51]

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[12:10:01]

larzen1:

wagnerrp: these are scrapped boxes. No NDA.

[12:10:18]

larzen1:

didnt even have power adapters =)

[12:10:39]

wagnerrp:

NDA = non-disclosure agreement

[12:10:56]

wagnerrp:

the documentation or code or whatever you got that showed you how to access that decoding hardware

[12:11:01]

wagnerrp:

is controlled under an NDA

[12:11:22]

wagnerrp:

youre not supposed to disclose it to anyone, especially those who have not themselves signed the NDA

[12:12:26]

larzen1:

nothing outside of what google offered.

[12:14:20]

larzen1:

there are actually decent code examples done for Dreambox/DBox2

[12:14:27]

larzen1:

which is another sigma based box

[12:14:47]

larzen1:

and portion of what they put on those is under GPL

[12:15:37]

larzen1:

quite frankly on the topic of Sigma – their display interface is so weak that your controlling interface would be nothing more than a command line or a very simple user interface.

[12:15:57]

larzen1:

You are far better off spending $100 on an ATOM 330 based board and using... you guessed it, MythTV

[12:16:09]

larzen1:

and clear QAM =)

[12:16:13]

wagnerrp:

i wont argue with that

[12:16:37]

wagnerrp:

but there are a lot of people around he who seem to want to run underpowered, embedded boxes

[12:17:01]

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[12:18:47]

larzen1:

i will tell you though... the IPN430 has a great little metallic case

[12:18:54]

johnnyj:

mysql on mac is loads of fun

[12:20:28]

larzen1:

and an ASUS ATOM-based board fits nicely =) You will need a power connector from Cyntronix...

[12:20:44]

larzen1:

and re-sodder the connectors for power, network light and HD spin...

[12:21:10]

larzen1:

have yourself a nice free case with a modded atom board. The backplate has to be cut out too – but it works out nicely.

[12:21:58]

larzen1:

anyhow. thank you very much for all the info!! much appreciated.

[12:22:09]

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[12:22:24]

larzen1:

i will now code up my own little tuner tester for the IVTV!

[12:24:13]

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[12:51:21]

cipher42:

do cableCard's work with myth?

[12:51:57]

wagnerrp:

never

[12:53:32]

cipher42:

never will i suppose?

[12:54:18]

wagnerrp:

support for cablecard requires following cable labs' license agreement

[12:54:38]

wagnerrp:

which requires that content protection be maintained for the entire lifetime of the content

[12:54:49]

wagnerrp:

from the tuner card, all the way to the tv, and everywhere in between

[12:55:07]

wagnerrp:

not something easily accomplished in mythtv, or even in linux for that matter

[12:55:25]

cipher42:

but microsoft can get away with it??

[12:55:36]

hopper75:

I'm seeing 2 errors when trying to import a DVD: http://pastebin.com/TWZ8gkM8 Playing a DVD works fine. Does this look familiar to anyone?

[12:56:06]

wagnerrp:

add on top of that the requirement for an (expensive) authorization process, that mythtv would never be able to pay, before being given access keys

[12:56:21]

cipher42:

aaahhh i see

[12:56:22]

wagnerrp:

cipher42: windows is a closed system, they can implement protected data paths all they want

[12:56:55]

wagnerrp:

you try to do something like that in open source code, and someone else just takes the source, removes the protection, recompiles, and instant DRM bypass

[12:57:04]

gbee:

hopper75: looks like a broken theme, let me just check if it's still broken in trunk

[12:57:34]

ThisOtherGuy:

Hi all – I opened #8619 which is about mythtvosd not working in trunk any more. I noticed in tv_play.cpp that osd->StartNotify() was commented out (which explains the issue). Does anyone know if there is a replacement in the new osd code (since startnotify doesn't exist any more)?

[12:57:50]

wagnerrp:

cipher42: even if we did want to limit the usability of mythtv in such a manner, its simply not possible to use DRM with open source code

[12:58:54]

wagnerrp:

ThisOtherGuy: mythtvosd is planned for obsolescence, with something new intended for the new UI and OSD

[12:59:00]

hopper75:

gbee: tried that theme and metallurgy as well. There was a previous ticket that sounded awefully similar but was fixed (apparently). http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/7854

[12:59:05]

cipher42:

is there a way to stream netflix in myth?

[12:59:16]

wagnerrp:

cipher42: and were right back to DRM

[12:59:22]

cipher42:

yea that's what i thought

[12:59:26]

wagnerrp:

netflix streaming uses silverlight

[12:59:39]

wagnerrp:

there is an open source version of silverlight for use in linux, called moonlight

[12:59:40]

cipher42:

i swear i saw netflix in my myth a while ago

[12:59:43]

gbee:

hopper75: it's in the base theme, the fallback which is used when another theme lacks that screen

[12:59:50]

wagnerrp:

but with the whole opensource/DRM issue

[12:59:57]

gbee:

and moonlight sucks

[13:00:02]

wagnerrp:

microsoft will never open up their DRM spec and keys for use with moonlight

[13:00:05]

gbee:

worse than silverlight

[13:00:06]

cipher42:

yea i have moonlight 2.2 but firefox still tells me it's incompatible

[13:00:32]

wagnerrp:

so until microsoft releases a binary version of silverlight for use in linux, or netflix produces another streaming mechanism that doesnt use silverlight and/or drm

[13:00:36]

wagnerrp:

no netflix in mythtv

[13:00:48]

ThisOtherGuy:

wagnerrp: thanks – any previews / ETAs in the meantime so I can boost the WAF?

[13:01:23]

wagnerrp:

no, as i understand it, development on a replacement was waiting for the OSD merge a couple weeks ago

[13:01:25]

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[13:01:36]

wagnerrp:

now its just waiting on some free time and motivation to actually do so

[13:02:06]

ThisOtherGuy:

k – lemme know if I can help

[13:02:14]

wagnerrp:

the plan being a unified interface that works in both the menu (UI) and playback (OSD)

[13:02:22]

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[13:02:28]

wagnerrp:

as it stands, mythtvosd only ever worked during playback

[13:02:59]

hopper75:

gbee: that makes sense as per ticket 7854. I'm not familiar enough with the code at the moment... is it failing or reporting it's using the default theme instead since the theme lacks those screens?

[13:03:34]

gbee:

hopper75: I'll get it fixed in the next couple of hours, you should be able to grab updated packages for your distro (if they make them available)

[13:03:50]

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[13:07:46]

ThisOtherGuy:

wagnerrp – that sounds awesome – that would be a big improvement (especially from a WAF perspective)

[13:07:53]

hopper75:

gbee: thank you so much. You rock! I imagine grabbing the source will be my best bet... rpmfusion may be very slow to re-package.

[13:08:50]

gbee:

hopper75: I'll ask Jarod if he can release an update, no guarantees but I imagine he'll be fine with that

[13:08:52]

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[13:09:17]

hopper75:

wonderful. Should I be concerned with the mount messages onlines 1 & 2: http://pastebin.com/TWZ8gkM8 ?

[13:10:14]

wagnerrp:

/dev/sr0 is a possible mount point for CD/DVD drives

[13:10:15]

sphery:

jams: If you think we should keep "Change channels immediately without select," now is the time to try to explain its worth. :)

[13:10:22]

wagnerrp:

if you dont have one of those, dont worry about it

[13:10:41]

gbee:

hopper75: hmm, I've just fired up the import here and although the theme is broken, it doesn't appear to impair functionality, I'm able to start ripping

[13:11:12]

gbee:

the UI needs work generally, but it does work

[13:11:18]

hopper75:

gbee: OK, that makes sense. Makese me think the mount message may be the problem.

[13:11:22]

hopper75:

I'll try a few things.

[13:12:11]

gbee:

yeah, I missed the mount error at the beginning of the paste

[13:13:27]

sphery:

jams: The way I see it, without the setting it still changes channels at timeout (3s) if you don't enable it. If you want immediate change, you can hit SELECT. So, at worst, removing the setting wastes a couple seconds of your life or forces you to hit one extra button /only/ when changing channels in Live TV when not using Browse mode or the EPG. And, if we leave that setting in, some combinations of numeric input are impossible for things like ...

[13:13:28]

gbee:

IMHO that's still a failing of Myth, but it falls into the unimplemented feature category, a workaround would be to add a mount point for your drive in /etc/fstab

[13:13:33]

sphery:

... arbitrary seek (i.e. it breaks other functionality in MythTV). So those are the cons. What are the pros?

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[13:14:15]

gbee:

hopper75: ^^ "/dev/sr0 /media/dvd auto umask=0,users,iocharset=utf8,noauto,ro,exec 0 0"

[13:14:58]

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[13:16:19]

gbee:

be warned that DVD ripping hasn't be updated to know about storage groups, it requires a local directory to be configured to mythvideo, I need to discuss that with iamlindoro and Captain_Murdoch

[13:17:30]

gbee:

sphery: the UI theme != osd theme, especially for 0.23

[13:17:39]

wagnerrp:

gbee: im wondering if the best course would be to upload it to the Temp storage group somewhere, and then migrate the transcoder to using the jobqueue instead of MTD from there

[13:17:47]

sphery:

gbee: heh, oops...

[13:20:08]

wagnerrp:

i really need to get to work on the jobqueue rewrite, so such a change wouldnt eat up one user job slot

[13:21:34]

gbee:

wagnerrp: something like that, but I've no personal opinion when it comes to that feature, I don't use it frequently enough to care precisely how it works, it would be nice to integrate it better and maybe lose mtd – we don't really need a daemon for a job that might only be done on average twice a week at best and a couple of times a year for most users

[13:22:04]

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[13:22:44]

sphery:

though it wouldn't necessarily have to take up a slot (could be "built in" like mythcommflag and transcodes)--that said, your approach would still be very nice

[13:22:52]

sphery:

and I agree that mtd is useless

[13:22:59]

wagnerrp:

i know danielk has reservations for using mythproto for recording

[13:23:07]

wagnerrp:

but i would love to see it get used for everything else

[13:23:31]

wagnerrp:

transcoding, commflagging (believe its already used here), dvd ripping, etc...

[13:24:29]

wagnerrp:

sphery: thats what i mean, the jobqueue would have to be modified to add a new built-in

[13:24:40]

sphery:

oh

[13:24:47]

wagnerrp:

the purpose of the rewrite is to remove all built-in jobs

[13:24:51]

sphery:

I thought you meant a user-job slot

[13:24:57]

gbee:

noticed that when you've two drives it prompts you to chose between them using an old-ui popup

[13:25:22]

wagnerrp:

sphery: i did, adding a built in would be the alternative

[13:25:59]

gbee:

whole thing could be done better somehow, the option to chose between drives should be integrated into the same screen as the other ripping options

[13:26:17]

sphery:

wow, that forum thread that was linked in #mythtv is fun to read

[13:26:27]

sphery:

just makes all the work so worthwhile

[13:26:31]

wagnerrp:

the ubuntu one?

[13:26:32]

wagnerrp:

yeah...

[13:26:33]

sphery:

yeah

[13:27:21]

wagnerrp:

we should all just try to regain our honor, by killing ourselves and forcing everyone to move to xbmc

[13:27:24]

sphery:

at least the guy who explained just how broken all our code is submitted patches to fix everything

[13:27:27]

sphery:

oh, wait...

[13:27:32]

sphery:

heh

[13:27:36]

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[13:28:06]

sphery:

But XBMC doesn't have enough settings... They put things into the theme. My grandma shouldn't have to edit XML to change the UI.

[13:28:34]

gbee:

you grandma shouldn't need to change the UI

[13:28:37]

gbee:

your

[13:28:40]

sphery:

And look at what happens when you do that kind of thing: You write a theme and change XBMC into Boxee. It's a completely different program, but without code changes.

[13:28:56]

sphery:

that's just wrong... Everyone should be forced to use MythTV the way I use it.

[13:29:10]

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[13:29:37]

sphery:

(actually, I think that's the best thing about XBMC--it's heavily customizable through themes, and not just the look of it)

[13:29:59]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: i think this might brighten your day a bit... http://gizmodo.com/5592503/

[13:30:20]

sphery:

heh

[13:31:16]

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[13:31:25]

hopper75:

Hmm. No errors any more re: mounting, still have theme errors, but nothing happens when I start the rip. http://pastebin.com/iumzhNaC I must be doing something dumb?

[13:31:42]

hopper75:

still have errors = theme errors

[13:32:17]

hopper75:

gui messge is No jobs and nothing else to do. You could rip a DVD.

[13:33:02]

sphery:

the dvd ripper UI is not very intuitive

[13:33:15]

sphery:

it's quite possible everything is working right, and you just need to start a job

[13:33:31]

sphery:

I don't remember the keys to do so (but it may be numeric keys or something)

[13:34:21]

hopper75:

I've got one of the titles selected, quality set to perfect, and I select Begin R... (presumably short for Begin Rip)

[13:34:43]

sphery:

sounds right, but I haven't ripped a DVD for years, so...

[13:34:48]

hopper75:

hehe

[13:34:57]

sphery:

all I remember is that it took me several tries to figure it out

[13:35:00]

hopper75:

My first time so could very well be me doing something dumb.

[13:36:05]

hopper75:

AH, select 0 to begin. Lemme try that

[13:36:12]

gbee:

hopper, kill mtd, start it manually from a console and try again

[13:36:35]

gbee:

hopper75: I thought I'd removed that 'select 0' nonsense, which version are you using?

[13:37:24]

hopper75:

I'm using 0.23. I was just googling to try and get a clue. :-)

[13:37:34]

gbee:

odd

[13:38:03]

hopper75:

0 didn't do anything so that makes sense.

[13:38:16]

hopper75:

Wierd that begin doesn't do anything, but no error either.

[13:38:31]

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[13:38:59]

gbee:

0 used to start the background daemon which actually performed the ripping, in trunk (and I thought 0.23), that process is started automatically

[13:39:31]

gbee:

anyway, run 'mtd' manually as you can then inspect it's log output

[13:39:45]

hopper75:

yeah, if thats mtd, it's running

[13:39:55]

hopper75:

ok, I'll do that

[13:40:11]

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[13:41:56]

sphery:

http://www.mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-20.html needs updating...

[13:41:58]

sphery:

or removal

[13:42:53]

sphery:

hopper75: that said, http://www.mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-20.html#ss20.3 may be helpful... run mtd in the foreground in a terminal so you can watch logging ( mtd -n )

[13:44:11]

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[13:46:12]

hopper75:

sphery: thanks. I'll try that. There was an mtd running already. I'll try that howto to learn more.

[13:47:16]

Beirdo:

larzen1: if you want to know what ivtv drivers support, may I suggest READING the ivtv driver source code?

[13:47:17]

sphery:

yeah, if you shut it down and then run in the console, you may see more

[13:49:36]

gbee:

dvd ripping needs to be re-written from scratch, and maybe bluray ripping can be rolled in at the same time, it should be broken out into it's own plugin for legal reasons

[13:50:00]

hopper75:

Whohoo, a good thread to pull on. Looks like a path issue.

[13:51:50]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: a bit late to that one arent you?

[13:51:56]

hopper75:

The prefix on the files it wanted to create were /share/Movies/dvd – I'll find where that's set and fix it.

[13:52:06]

sphery:

hopper75: ah, yeah, must have a valid rip directory specified

[13:52:22]

sphery:

it's in settings under optical media, iirc

[13:57:27]

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[14:01:18]

EvilGuru:

You know why I hate summer? Thunderflies.

[14:01:23]

wagnerrp:

?

[14:01:31]

EvilGuru:

Lost a TV and a monitor to them last year

[14:01:43]

kormoc:

that's easy enough to prevent

[14:02:45]

EvilGuru:

Had one in my ThinkPad the other day

[14:02:50]

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[14:03:00]

wagnerrp:

how did it get in the computer?

[14:03:22]

EvilGuru:

wagnerrp: Into the screen, they get between the components of the panel

[14:03:31]

wagnerrp:

and that broke it?

[14:03:43]

wagnerrp:

i get spider mites in my LCDs occasionally

[14:03:44]

kormoc:

wait

[14:03:48]

kormoc:

you mean real bugs?

[14:03:50]

wagnerrp:

and while annoying, they dont hurt anything

[14:03:56]

EvilGuru:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2QfAhK1EuE

[14:04:11]

wagnerrp:

or you mean it got in there and died?

[14:04:11]

kormoc:

oh, corn lice

[14:04:18]

EvilGuru:

I mean real bugs, which are the size of several pixels, and die after a day of being stuck

[14:04:20]

kormoc:

they do tend to short things out

[14:05:53]

wagnerrp:

the things im talking about a the size of a single pixel

[14:06:08]

hopper75:

Phew, that took me a bit to find. setup->media settings->video settings->general. My thrashing DVD indicates I probably got it. :-) Thank you all so much for the help/advice.

[14:06:10]

kormoc:

I've never really had that much of a problem with corn lice, once in a great while we'd have one somewhere and it'd zap itself

[14:06:29]

EvilGuru:

They seem to be very adept at getting into screens

[14:06:34]

hopper75:

The tip to run mtd at the console was really helpful. Immediately showed me the problem.

[14:06:34]

kormoc:

EvilGuru, you should move to a bugless place

[14:06:43]

hopper75:

Plus the /etc/fstab line.

[14:07:20]

EvilGuru:

kormoc: Got a field down the end of the road :(

[14:07:30]

wagnerrp:

that, or open up and apply silicone all around your monitors

[14:07:45]

kormoc:

go spray it with salt water every night

[14:07:52]

kormoc:

no plants, no bugs!

[14:08:03]

wagnerrp:

no display!

[14:08:20]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, I ment spray the field

[14:08:36]

kormoc:

or move to the big city

[14:08:53]

kormoc:

live in a impersonal high rise

[14:09:26]

hopper75:

I now see the Rip/Transcode screen for the video I ripped. Thanks gbee, sphery, wagnerrp

[14:09:50]

johnnyj:

kormoc: you're not safe in the 'big city'

[14:10:05]

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[14:10:27]

kormoc:

johnnyj, pay enough and you are!

[14:11:02]

johnnyj:

kormoc: pay or spray?

[14:11:14]

kormoc:

sure

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[14:45:08]

sphery:

Anyone have any thoughts on how to go through and cull out-of-date/broken themes from: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Category:Themes

[14:45:20]

sphery:

maybe tag the known-working ones?

[14:45:39]

sphery:

and separate tag for unknown status and just plain remove known-broken ones?

[14:47:23]

kormoc:

perhaps create a tag called themes-0.23, themes-0.24 and tag working themes based on that?

[14:47:51]

sphery:

wagnerrp: you seem to know mediawiki pretty well... do you know how we could do that?

[14:48:06]

sphery:

I'm removing Glass-OSD since we got a report it doesn't work.

[14:49:52]

wagnerrp:

im just making this up as a go along

[14:49:57]

wagnerrp:

maybe a compatibility table?

[14:50:17]

sphery:

looks like it was added in Nov 2009, which would have been 0.22... Wonder what changed

[14:50:39]

wagnerrp:

the 'highlighted item' for one

[14:50:41]

sphery:

Yeah, we need to get gbee's theme version info + the theme downloader in place... that would help a lot

[14:50:55]

sphery:

oh, didn't realize anything changed in osd themes

[14:51:19]

wagnerrp:

yeah, only think i can think of is to make it a table instead of a gallery

[14:51:19]

sphery:

and people say I remember all things myth... I think wagnerrp is that guy, now

[14:51:56]

wagnerrp:

i just remember it because it happened right before the end of the theme competition

[14:52:00]

wagnerrp:

and broke all the entries

[14:52:20]

wagnerrp:

the highlighted item turned invisible

[14:52:56]

sphery:

maybe we should just see what happens with the theme downloader

[14:53:05]

sphery:

and then rework the page after

[14:54:04]

sphery:

wow, talk about minor differences... BlueCurves and blueBar

[14:54:08]

sphery:

wonder if there are other diffs on other screens

[14:54:17]

sphery:

(or if it's just the rounded corners)

[14:56:10]

gbee:

nothing changed in osd themes between 0.21 and 0.23

[14:56:40]

gbee:

but all osd themes were entirely broken by the osd port to mythui

[14:57:41]

sphery:

yeah

[14:57:57]

sphery:

I didn't know about earlier, but I do realize about trunk

[14:58:12]

kormoc:

Are there working themes out there we're not shipping?

[14:58:13]

sphery:

speaking of which... should I delete all the old OSD themes from trunk?

[14:58:20]

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[14:58:23]

kormoc:

BELETTED!

[14:58:36]

sphery:

according to the wiki page, there are :) (Then again, #8669 was due to using one of them :)

[14:58:39]

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[14:58:56]

gbee:

sphery: mark made initial efforts to port some of them, but I don't know which and none are complete

[14:59:18]

sphery:

heh, I already deleted them

[14:59:29]

sphery:

it's bad when you don't remember doing some of the things you've done

[14:59:38]

gbee:

;)

[15:00:08]

sphery:

[25117]

[15:03:54]

sphery:

wonder if Castles (from the wiki) is here

[15:04:40]

sphery:

nvm... seems Ian added a comment to the blog about the theme.

[15:06:26]

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[15:30:44]

justinh:

grr Emmerdull didn't record. or rather it did, but 0B

[15:30:57]

justinh:

time to go log scrumpin

[15:31:35]

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[15:31:58]

gbee:

justinh: your backend has become self-aware and it has taste

[15:32:08]

justinh:

hmmm absolutely squat of any susbtance in the log

[15:32:30]

justinh:

just the usual started recording, then a couple of secs later it mutters about the file not being local

[15:32:41]

justinh:

gbee: most likely, but it's not adding to the WAF

[15:33:31]

justinh:

whoah thats new: 2010-07–21 19:00:05.246 DVBSH(/dev/dvb/adapter0/frontend0): Failed to open DVR device /dev/dvb/adapter0/dvr0 : Device or resource busy

[15:34:04]

justinh:

wonder if that's cardid 1

[15:35:03]

justinh:

yup, sure is. hmm. wonder if this is EIT interfering with stuff

[15:35:38]

sphery:

Nobody tell kormoc about MythSkyNet... He's been watching vigilantly, so we'll have to be stealthy so that we can usher in Judgement Day.

[15:36:29]

justinh:

maybe time to run mythtv-setup.real & see what the deal is. haven't run into this before I updated

[15:37:02]

wagnerrp:

when you bypass the wrappers, you bypass The Man

[15:37:13]

justinh:

heh

[15:37:30]

justinh:

I kinda need my backend up at the mo, and I'm just going in for a peek

[15:40:15]

justinh:

whaaa? so there's a setting for enabling active EIT on a card, but am I wrong in thinking there used to be a setting for general EIT in video sources or something?

[15:40:51]

justinh:

duh. but.. 'perform EIT scan' isn't even checked. wth?

[15:42:00]

justinh:

and er.. my radio channels – which all have useonairguide checked – have EIT data

[15:43:39]

justinh:

ah my 2nd tuner had active EIT enabled

[15:43:57]

justinh:

turned that off, and am gonna go back to passive EIT I think

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[15:58:49]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

What is the best way to secure MythTV if letting it be accessed over the open net?

[15:59:36]

wagnerrp:

VPN

[15:59:49]

justinh:

the best way is to close the ports on your router & forget the silly idea altogether. SRSLY

[15:59:53]

wagnerrp:

s/best/only/

[16:00:12]

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[16:00:33]

justinh:

or do you mean MythWeb, not actually MythTV itself – by which you're implying running a frontend in a place which isn't home

[16:01:49]

justinh:

if you mean just mythweb, the frontend type interface in yer web browser it's quite straightfoward to secure

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[16:19:10]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

IRC cut out. Did I get any response to my question?

[16:20:01]

justinh:

did you actually mean mythweb or are you planning (plain silly IMHO) to run a frontend somewhere away from your home?

[16:20:49]

justinh:

if the former, mythweb is pretty simple to secure. if the latter, a VPN (wagnerp's suggestion) is the *only* way

[16:20:58]

wagnerrp:

there is no way to secure mythtv without rewriting big chunks of the protocol code, and pulling in all database access through it

[16:21:09]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Sorry. I crashed and missed the responses.

[16:21:31]

wagnerrp:

if you want to securely access mythtv remotely, you must use a VPN of some sorts

[16:21:34]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

JustinH, I agree with you about the protocol code.

[16:21:45]

J-e-f-f-A:

!url irclog

[16:21:45]

MythLogBot:

No match for keyword irclog

[16:21:51]

wagnerrp:

!url logs

[16:21:52]

MythLogBot:

logs: http://mythtv.beirdo.ca/ircLog/channel/1

[16:22:01]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Someone was telling me about their idea for a MythTV script that would require direct access and I was wondering if there was something I missed.

[16:22:03]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Thank you for the log

[16:22:08]

J-e-f-f-A:

wagnerrp: Ah, there is one. ;-)

[16:22:28]

justinh:

and anyway in addition to using a VPN you'd need plenty upstream bandwidth on your home internet connection

[16:22:57]

J-e-f-f-A:

justinh: would 35Mbps do? ;-) That's what I have.... 35/35 MuWaHaHa!!!!

[16:23:15]

justinh:

:-O

[16:23:17]

** gbee stifles a reply **

[16:24:22]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I was thinking it would create a big dangerous hole in my network.

[16:24:30]

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[16:24:33]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Shame, other than that, the rest of the idea sounded cool.

[16:26:23]

wagnerrp:

it would be great if someone added a mysql proxy, and authentication, and encryption to the backend protocol, and maybe some fuzz testing

[16:26:50]

** J-e-f-f-A laughs. **

[16:28:38]

sphery:

wagnerrp: and we should do some compression algorithm that allows us to transmit 13Mbps MPEG-2 over a 750kbps uplink, too.

[16:28:59]

sphery:

then we can make MythTV a cloud application

[16:29:10]

J-e-f-f-A:

sphery: ooh, add 13Mbps h.264 to that too!

[16:29:23]

wagnerrp:

thats simple, only send the I frames

[16:29:33]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Wagnerrp, until we all have a lot of upstream, it won't really work.

[16:29:42]

sphery:

J-e-f-f-A: yeah, compressing h.264 should be even easier than MPEG-2, since the video is so loosely packed

[16:30:20]

sphery:

wagnerrp: since some of the H.264 out there only has I-frames every 10s or 30s, we might actually be able to keep up with that

[16:31:38]

wagnerrp:

i could believe 10 seconds, but 30?

[16:32:04]

wagnerrp:

i know x264 is dynamic, but they set a default maximum spacing to like 250 frames or something

[16:33:16]

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[16:33:31]

kormoc:

sphery, SKYNET-KHAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!

[16:33:48]

wagnerrp:

khanet?

[16:33:52]

sphery:

wagnerrp: well, one person said his H.264 video (whose pedigree is /very/ much in question) had no I-frames

[16:33:58]

J-e-f-f-A:

Have you guys played back HD-PVR h.264 recordings on a PS3 via UPnP? My son's 40GB PS3 plays them flawlessly... you can even play in slow-mo, frame-by-frame, both forward and backwards... very impressive...

[16:34:08]

sphery:

kormoc: you weren't supposed to notice... great, now the robots will never take over

[16:34:43]

sphery:

or maybe that was no key frames

[16:35:05]

sphery:

anyway, since I"m pretty sure I know exactly where/how he got that video, I don't care to worry about it

[16:36:39]

wagnerrp:

sphery: well of course their knowledge of video compression is suspect

[16:36:56]

wagnerrp:

considering you cannot seek in a file with no I-frames

[16:37:12]

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[16:37:27]

wagnerrp:

and you would still need at least one at the beginning

[16:37:45]

wagnerrp:

got a link to the list archive?

[16:38:07]

J-e-f-f-A:

Does sphery have a link? Of course he does! ;-)

[16:38:21]

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[16:39:07]

sphery:

heh, this was just hearsay, not on list or anything

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[16:54:12]

Beirdo:

phugh

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[17:37:59]

larrikin:

umm, after upgrading mythweb to 0.23, I don't get a 'return to tv listings' link in program detail pages -after- doing an update.. but instead get a 'return to recording schedules' .. making it difficult to browse the tv listings and edit the recording schedules

[17:38:17]

kormoc:

oh lordy

[17:38:17]

larrikin:

is this expected behaviour?

[17:38:32]

kormoc:

it's a bug I missed

[17:38:41]

larrikin:

okay

[17:38:48]

kormoc:

I swear, I never seem to get that one right

[17:39:09]

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[17:39:18]

larrikin:

is it a couple of lines of change, or something bigger ?

[17:39:25]

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[17:39:53]

kormoc:

it's a few lines, but it's in a piece of code that is shared in all the views so it makes it pretty hard to get it right

[17:40:17]

larrikin:

oh.. :(

[17:40:48]

** NightMonkey comments on the dev channel discussion... **

[17:41:21]

kormoc:

NightMonkey, %s/comments/meta-comments/ ?

[17:41:43]

NightMonkey:

I think MythTV version 1001 would be absurd enough to show how absurd versions numbers are.... ;)

[17:42:19]

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[17:42:22]

NightMonkey:

Absurd and arbitrary, that is.

[17:42:24]

kormoc:

look at windows, 3.1, 3.11, 95, 98, me, xp, vista, and now back to 7

[17:42:40]

larrikin:

I started looking at it myself, I saw a comment in detail.php about the page redirecting to itself, but without query string and figured that the query string probably contained a reference to time.. and then got lost in it all

[17:42:45]

kormoc:

perhaps Mythtv ME

[17:42:52]

NightMonkey:

kormoc: YES!

[17:43:03]

Beirdo:

MythTV Bob

[17:43:06]

NightMonkey:

kormoc: Now we need a Clippy.

[17:43:17]

NightMonkey:

kormoc: Or, MythTV "Bob"

[17:43:20]

NightMonkey:

doh

[17:43:24]

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[17:43:24]

NightMonkey:

jinx

[17:43:47]

kormoc:

"You appear to be watching a tv show. Would you like me to show you how to fast forward, rewind, or pause?"

[17:43:53]

NightMonkey:

HAH!

[17:45:57]

NightMonkey:

MythTV 2001: A Livingspace Odyssey.

[17:46:02]

NightMonkey:

OK, I'm done.

[17:46:40]

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[17:50:53]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: http://www.wagnerrp.com/images/random/win7clippy.jpg

[17:51:10]

kormoc:

ha

[17:54:03]

sid3windr:

open the recordings screen, mythtv

[17:54:05]

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[17:54:08]

sid3windr:

I'm afraid I can't let you do that, NightMonkey

[17:54:28]

** Beirdo backports wagnerrp **

[17:57:25]

NightMonkey:

Error: My mind is going. I can feel it.

[17:58:08]

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[17:58:46]

sid3windr:

daisy, daisy..

[17:58:52]

sid3windr:

:>

[17:59:53]

NightMonkey:

wagnerrp: That could totally become an easter egg in Mythtv. Have a search for those "special" channels, and have a pop-up on April 1st when watching shows recorded from them.

[18:00:54]

NightMonkey:

My shows are going. I can feel it.

[18:05:00]

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[18:12:05]

NightMonkey:

Hrm. I only get digests of mythtv lists; is there something triggering all the versioning chatting in #mythtv? Some ubuntu-ism?

[18:13:04]

kormoc:

We bumped the proto version in 0.23-fixes and some(all?)ubuntu users were updated to it and had issues connecting to other non-updated installs

[18:13:19]

NightMonkey:

kormoc: Oh, I see. Thanks.

[18:14:00]

NightMonkey:

kormoc: But hasn't it always been the case that all mythtv boxes that talk to each other need to "fly in formation" in terms of versions?

[18:14:07]

kormoc:

yes

[18:14:33]

kormoc:

the users signed up for nightly updates and then got mad when the nightly updates updated faster then the non-nightly updates did...

[18:14:59]

tgm4883:

well thats not entirely true

[18:15:05]

tgm4883:

but I don't plan on getting into that agani

[18:15:28]

NightMonkey:

kormoc: Hrm. I guess then I don't see the problem. Upgrade all, or upgrade none. That's the Mythtv Way(tm).

[18:15:40]

kormoc:

tgm4883, the only thing I read was from that user on your forums complaining and threatening to fork over it...

[18:15:56]

tgm4883:

kormoc, don't get me started on that user

[18:16:50]

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[18:17:02]

kormoc:

fair 'nuff

[18:17:29]

Beirdo:

he can fork.. never mind

[18:17:54]

kormoc:

but i guess the issue is it caught these users off-guard, they auto-updated (?) and things didn't match and there was no updates available yet for the other non-ubuntu sourced builds?

[18:18:04]

NightMonkey:

And, when you "outsource" your package updates (by using "automatic" updates), this is a possible consequence of not "minding the store", yes?

[18:18:06]

kormoc:

I don't really understand the issue fully myself

[18:18:21]

kormoc:

NightMonkey, my feelings on it, aye

[18:18:22]

** kormoc shrugs **

[18:18:46]

larrikin:

they probably figure with all the money they pay in license fees, they are entitled to better service ..

[18:18:51]

kormoc:

but then I also run Gentoo to keep full control in my own hands, so I'm not a typical user with typical expectations

[18:19:04]

NightMonkey:

Oh, these are *paying* users?

[18:19:15]

sid3windr:

no, that's the point

[18:19:16]

sid3windr:

:p

[18:19:16]

sphery:

heh

[18:19:20]

kormoc:

they're not paying us anything

[18:19:30]

sphery:

I didn't get my check this month...

[18:19:34]

sid3windr:

better get thta sarcmarc licensed larrikin

[18:19:39]

NightMonkey:

Ah, I see.

[18:19:40]

sid3windr:

=)

[18:19:41]

kormoc:

sphery, we better sue!

[18:19:46]

sphery:

yeah!

[18:19:52]

Beirdo:

heh

[18:20:02]

larrikin:

I could probably spring for a couple of cans of soup if you're interested ?

[18:20:09]

NightMonkey:

Sue for emotional damages, for sure.

[18:20:13]

kormoc:

in the great state of WA, if you don't get paid on time (within a 24 hour period), they owe you a extra 100% per week it's outstanding

[18:20:22]

sphery:

then again, since I haven't really done anything on MythTV this month, I probably don't deserve the check... :(

[18:20:40]

Beirdo:

hmmm, I should kill a few more bugs ;)

[18:20:56]

NightMonkey:

sphery: Make that part of the suit. You were so demoralized by this, you need compensation.

[18:21:00]

sphery:

I'll have to read my employment contract. Don't know if I'm supposed to be salaried or hourly or permanent part time or ...

[18:21:16]

sphery:

NightMonkey: wow, thinking like a true American

[18:21:20]

kormoc:

We're all unpaid interns :(

[18:21:37]

sphery:

I still have to work on that--I tend to blame myself far too often.

[18:21:38]

NightMonkey:

sphery: And, didn't your moping around drag down your family, too. Add them on.

[18:21:43]

Beirdo:

at least we aren't Clinton interns

[18:21:47]

sphery:

heh, yeah

[18:22:17]

NightMonkey:

For great justice.

[18:22:39]

Beirdo:

kormoc: #8616... if you are looking for an easy ticket to fix :)

[18:22:42]

sphery:

It seems I could learn a thing or 2 about being truly American from Apple (and its illustrious leader). After all, he's doing everything possible to not admit to a mistake (not even blaming other engineers in the company)

[18:23:08]

larrikin:

you're just holding it wrong..

[18:23:10]

sphery:

kormoc: and if you look at #8616, see, also, #8614--they're a matched pair

[18:23:21]

sphery:

larrikin: Yeah, I no longer hold anything by the lower left corner

[18:23:42]

sphery:

I found that my MythTV box works better that way, too!

[18:23:59]

Beirdo:

and your hand a lot less sore too

[18:24:20]

larrikin:

the funny thing is, signal strength meters on mobile phones have been faked since the nokia 3210

[18:24:30]

sphery:

yeah--especially since I went with a huge full-size ATX tower case instead of one of those small cases

[18:24:45]

kormoc:

sphery, well, when they went to launch it, they had wifi issues, so it never started out well

[18:25:22]

sphery:

larrikin: No joke... I can't tell you how upset I am with the whole idea of using "bars" as a unit of measurement. The /only/ time that's acceptable is when speaking of atmospheric pressure.

[18:25:44]

kormoc:

sphery, it's how I measure my weekend enjoyment too

[18:25:47]

sphery:

(technically any pressure, but...)

[18:25:59]

Beirdo:

hehe

[18:26:01]

sphery:

kormoc: ok, I stand corrected--there are 2 valid uses :)

[18:26:16]

sphery:

wonder how many bars of enjoyment you'll have in Vegas

[18:26:45]

Beirdo:

I had about 15 bars of enjoyment one night in Vienna...

[18:26:54]

Beirdo:

that was a fun pub crawl

[18:27:05]

kormoc:

ooh, less then a hewett ave crawl but more then a typical seattle weekend for sure

[18:27:22]

Beirdo:

we ended at the hotel... and sat at the bar and ordered scotches

[18:28:02]

Beirdo:

oh, and we STARTED at McDonalds

[18:28:15]

Beirdo:

and I swear, they asked us "is that for here or to go"

[18:28:23]

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[18:28:29]

Beirdo:

Europe FTW

[18:29:20]

** kormoc blinks **

[18:29:33]

kormoc:

Mcdonalds always asks for here or to go?

[18:29:47]

Beirdo:

seems that way. even for beer :)

[18:29:47]

larrikin:

bars are no less acurate than decibels..

[18:30:29]

Beirdo:

I believe our response was something like... "Uhhhhh, to go! Hehehehe"

[18:31:06]

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[19:00:21]

Beirdo:

beer me

[19:01:14]

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[19:01:25]

Beirdo:

iamlindoro: #7783... you planning on incorporating it? :)

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[19:11:33]

NightMonkey:

kormoc: Hrm. Has mythtv *ever* supported mixed backend/frontend versions? Did I miss the memo?

[19:12:49]

kormoc:

with the same protocol version, we allow it

[19:14:36]

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[19:14:45]

sphery:

but it's not really supported

[19:14:57]

NightMonkey:

kormoc: Huh. I've just always assumed that was a Bad Idea (tm). Well, my process isn't going to change.

[19:15:13]

kormoc:

it is a bad idea, but it's one we haven't coded to prevent

[19:15:53]

NightMonkey:

kormoc: Tough love is still love. ;)

[19:16:00]

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[19:17:09]

NightMonkey:

kormoc: You folks write the stuff, so you get to make the rules. ;)

[19:17:28]

kormoc:

NightMonkey, we could use more users with that attitude...

[19:17:34]

Beirdo:

hehe :)

[19:20:50]

NightMonkey:

Where to be fascist and where to be liberal, that's some of the art. In binary, there's nothing between 0 and 1.

[19:21:14]

** NightMonkey is done writing new bumper stickers. **

[19:22:31]

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[19:23:11]

kormoc:

I'd prefer "In binary, grey does not exist"

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[19:25:32]

NightMonkey:

kormoc: Yes, indeed. Between 0 and 1, there is no middle ground.

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[19:49:14]

rhollan:

I understand that xbmc does not always play nice regarding the version of the mythtv backend protocol. But, it talks uPnP natively, and mythbackend can act as a upnp server, right? Is there any reason to not use xbmc just as a upnp client?

[19:49:42]

wagnerrp:

limitations of the upnp interface

[19:49:59]

wagnerrp:

cant do livetv, cant use the commercial detection, cant schedule new recordings

[19:50:00]

rhollan:

but if I just want to browse recorded media?

[19:50:06]

wagnerrp:

but playback should work fine

[19:50:16]

rhollan:

except ISOs, I guess

[19:50:26]

wagnerrp:

you cannot record ISOs

[19:50:34]

rhollan:

but I can RIP them.

[19:50:43]

wagnerrp:

but thats not recorded media

[19:51:10]

wagnerrp:

ISOs would probably work just fine over UPNP, so long as the player device could read ISOs over UNPN

[19:51:25]

wagnerrp:

mythtv has no transcoding support

[19:51:27]

rhollan:

O.K. for the mythrtv-centric interpretation of "recorded", as from a tv stream, yeah.

[19:51:41]

wagnerrp:

it just pumps the raw file across the network

[19:51:57]

rhollan:

still strugling with mythweb/music on IE,

[19:52:07]

Beirdo:

it pimps the raw file...

[19:52:09]

Beirdo:

heh

[19:52:13]

kormoc:

rhollan, myth can only act like a single upnp source, it can be recorded shows or mythvideos, not both

[19:52:31]

rhollan:

blech, but O.K.

[19:52:33]

wagnerrp:

it can be both, and music, all at the same time

[19:52:38]

rhollan:

whee!

[19:52:40]

Beirdo:

it just isn't

[19:52:46]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, currently it can't

[19:52:50]

wagnerrp:

oh?

[19:52:55]

** rhollan is confused **

[19:53:00]

wagnerrp:

ive heard there are issues with it only supporting one client at a time

[19:53:10]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, Aye, it's a toggle you have to set if you want to expose your recordings or your videos

[19:53:17]

wagnerrp:

but i know ive used recordings, videos, and music all over my ps3

[19:53:36]

Beirdo:

all that should get fixed :)

[19:53:36]

rhollan:

but not sumultaneously, even to different clients, then?

[19:53:39]

wagnerrp:

im pretty sure thats some special thing to work with windows media center and media center externders

[19:53:56]

wagnerrp:

since they talk their own 'special' blend of upnp

[19:54:18]

wagnerrp:

i /know/ ive used all three media types on my PS3 across UPNP without having to get up from the couch to change settings

[19:54:26]

Beirdo:

Oh, right, I should post to the -users ML asking for people to populate the Wiki with UPNP details

[19:55:27]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, looks like your right, the setting is UPnP/WMPSource

[19:55:33]

kormoc:

and that's a toggle between recordings and videos

[19:55:53]

kormoc:

my mistake

[19:56:04]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: i think its something to do with media center extenders not actually supporting a tree view

[19:56:18]

Beirdo:

windows--

[19:56:30]

wagnerrp:

so mythtv only allows you to display one or the other, to prevent the content being lost in a big jumbled mess

[19:56:38]

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[19:56:44]

rhollan:

Ah

[19:57:34]

rhollan:

Question: the PIN, does it protect just settings, or all access, or settings and deleting things?

[19:57:55]

kormoc:

which pin?

[19:58:01]

wagnerrp:

the PIN is a value that you have to provide if you are using UPNP detection of the backend

[19:58:10]

Beirdo:

the one in the grenade keeps it from going kaBOOM!

[19:58:10]

kormoc:

there's a settings pin, a video pin, a upnp assoc pin...

[19:58:21]

wagnerrp:

the frontend, perl, and python bindings will search for backends over the network

[19:58:34]

rhollan:

Forget UPNP for now. I am considering a myth FE instead

[19:58:42]

wagnerrp:

and if one is found, and the proper PIN is given, it will automatically set up your database access and connect to mythtv

[19:58:57]

wagnerrp:

all it does is prevent you from having to define the database host and password yourself

[19:59:03]

rhollan:

I'd like a way to restrict access based on not being able to delete or mess with settings

[19:59:08]

kormoc:

you know, coding a upnp client really really sucks

[19:59:17]

kormoc:

rhollan, so set a settings pin

[19:59:27]

wagnerrp:

is there a settings pin?

[19:59:30]

rhollan:

O.K. Settings PIN, then.

[19:59:34]

kormoc:

I believe so

[19:59:38]

rhollan:

What about preventing deletions?

[19:59:50]

wagnerrp:

theres a pin in mythtv-setup, but thats for the upnp detection stuff

[20:00:14]

kormoc:

I swore there was a pin to access settings

[20:00:22]

kormoc:

rhollan, nope

[20:00:37]

rhollan:

I want my kids to be able to play music an videos on their wireless nettop, but not do anything destructive.

[20:00:51]

wagnerrp:

mythtv was never really designed to protect itself from you or members of your household

[20:00:59]

rhollan:

yes, I understand that.

[20:01:28]

rhollan:

Right now, I am restricting remote access with stunnel and both client and server certs to "authorized" devices to do that.

[20:01:54]

Beirdo:

BDFH

[20:02:18]

rhollan:

That's why I was thinking of uPNP. It is essentially read-only, no?

[20:02:27]

kormoc:

yeah

[20:02:28]

Beirdo:

it is, correct

[20:03:17]

wagnerrp:

as a protocol, no, but for mythtv's purposes, yes

[20:03:34]

Beirdo:

right. Sorry, shoulda been more specific

[20:03:42]

iamlindoro:

Beirdo, Not personally, no, I don't think a random SQL query belonged there, my interaction with the ticket was triage only

[20:03:54]

rhollan:

good enough, IF I could access ALL media (music, ripped videos and DVDs, photos, AND recordings) with it

[20:03:55]

Beirdo:

OK

[20:04:20]

wagnerrp:

music, videos, and recordings, yes

[20:04:21]

Beirdo:

iamlindoro: just doing some random quick sweep-throughs, etc

[20:04:28]

wagnerrp:

ISOs? that depends on the application

[20:04:31]

wagnerrp:

photos? nope

[20:04:43]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: oh no.

[20:04:46]

iamlindoro:

yeah, I understand-- I just try to deal with all tickets for basic accuracy/functional patches as they come in

[20:04:47]

Beirdo:

don't do that to me :)

[20:04:52]

rhollan:

O.K. I understand the iso bit, but no photos?

[20:04:59]

rhollan:

Myth's limitation or upnp's?

[20:05:02]

wagnerrp:

myth's

[20:05:13]

rhollan:

er, maybe I could fix that?

[20:05:13]

Beirdo:

you telling me that there's MORE crap to work on for mythgallery? :)

[20:05:17]

rhollan:

without too much pain?

[20:05:40]

Beirdo:

heh. I'm about to get to mythgallery with a rather large pitchfork to dung it out

[20:05:52]

wagnerrp:

you could probably duplicate the code it uses for mythmusic

[20:05:57]

wagnerrp:

and just point it at a different settings value

[20:06:13]

Beirdo:

I'd rather you pattern it on mythvideo...

[20:06:18]

rhollan:

interesting. Will think about that.

[20:06:28]

Beirdo:

I intend to put storage groups in for mythgallery

[20:06:51]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: mythvideo over upnp does not use storage groups either

[20:06:59]

Beirdo:

oh good God

[20:07:00]

wagnerrp:

it doesnt even use the database

[20:07:10]

Beirdo:

hehe

[20:07:14]

wagnerrp:

it just performs its own file scan over the folder listed in VideoStartupDir

[20:07:21]

Beirdo:

sounds like we need a nice.... rewrite :)

[20:07:23]

wagnerrp:

pretty sure the music support does nearly the same thing

[20:07:29]

rhollan:

O.K. Thanks for the info.

[20:07:37]

rhollan:

time to drive home.

[20:08:03]

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[20:08:23]

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[20:08:38]

wagnerrp:

heh, apparently microsoft was putting together a project to let PC gamers play against Xbox gamers online

[20:08:52]

wagnerrp:

the scrapped the project because the Xbox players got creamed every time

[20:08:57]

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[20:09:04]

Beirdo:

heheeh

[20:09:23]

Beirdo:

imagine that.

[20:09:47]

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[20:10:06]

wagnerrp:

apparently they brought 'the best console players to play mediocre PC gamers', and they still got destroyed

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[20:12:14]

Beirdo:

tonight's joy will likely be trying to decipher how to move mythgallery to SGs :)

[20:12:35]

wagnerrp:

just change the file access routines around

[20:12:41]

Beirdo:

yeah

[20:12:55]

Beirdo:

I know, but it's likely not going to be as easy as it first sounds

[20:13:19]

Beirdo:

I do have mythvideo as a decent example though

[20:14:44]

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Beirdo:

bleh

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** wagnerrp wonders if LeeDaugherty and EloisaGreen are spam bots **

[22:17:12]

Beirdo:

probably

[22:17:52]

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[22:20:48]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: settings-wise...

[22:21:08]

Beirdo:

mythgallery stuff should be changed to be mythgallery.blah?

[22:21:33]

wagnerrp:

would be nice to keep that kind of stuff separate

[22:21:49]

Beirdo:

well, it's all in the settings table

[22:22:04]

Beirdo:

and mythvideo uses settings starting with mythvideo. by the looks of it

[22:22:46]

Beirdo:

so yeah, having a prefix for the settings name might just be the cleanest way to keep them unique

[22:22:47]

wagnerrp:

gallery currently uses 'gallery' and 'Gallery' for a number of its setting

[22:22:48]

wagnerrp:

s

[22:22:56]

Beirdo:

yeah

[22:23:17]

Beirdo:

I'm thinking of changing to gallery. or mythgallery.

[22:23:21]

wagnerrp:

MTD___, Music___, MythArchive___

[22:23:23]

Beirdo:

but I dunno

[22:24:21]

Beirdo:

heh

[22:24:24]

sphery:

Beirdo: mythvideo has been starting the move to prefixed settings

[22:24:37]

sphery:

so changing mythgallery to do likewise would be good

[22:24:42]

Beirdo:

sphery: that would be the generally accepted "right way"?

[22:24:44]

Beirdo:

K

[22:25:03]

sphery:

it's definitely much easier for people to figure out where the setting applied

[22:25:07]

Beirdo:

yeah

[22:25:12]

sphery:

and will help to prevent any namespace collisions

[22:25:14]

Beirdo:

taht's what I was thinking

[22:25:23]

wagnerrp:

if thats going to become the norm, i could adapt the bindings to better handle that

[22:25:56]

Beirdo:

I think it makes a decent norm :)

[22:25:58]

sphery:

I don't know that anyone plans to change old settings names (values), but at least for new ones

[22:26:03]

wagnerrp:

have the 'settings' class subclass itself for values with dots in their name

[22:26:14]

sphery:

changing old ones wouldn't hurt, but that's a matter of how motivated one is... :)

[22:26:29]

Beirdo:

well, I think in the gallery code, it's likely to change

[22:26:30]

Beirdo:

heh

[22:26:33]

sphery:

same thing with DB tables, too, ideally

[22:26:40]

Beirdo:

heh

[22:26:43]

sphery:

some prefix would be nice

[22:26:50]

Beirdo:

first things first

[22:26:56]

sphery:

heh, yeah

[22:27:07]

sphery:

just something to keep in mind if you add new tables :)

[22:27:13]

Beirdo:

for sure

[22:27:26]

Beirdo:

for now, working on doing the storage group

[22:27:36]

Beirdo:

thinking maybe making two?

[22:27:55]

sphery:

2?

[22:28:05]

Beirdo:

GalleryPictures and GalleryThumbnails

[22:28:09]

sphery:

oh

[22:28:13]

Beirdo:

names to be debated

[22:28:26]

sphery:

where thumbs is optional (and it can use pics for thumbs if not specified)?

[22:28:27]

Beirdo:

might be good to have them in separate groups?

[22:28:28]

wagnerrp:

a separate folder for thumbnails?

[22:28:34]

sphery:

agreed

[22:28:35]

wagnerrp:

is that needed?

[22:28:50]

wagnerrp:

i mean do we really need to store thumbnails?

[22:28:50]

sphery:

lots of people want mythtv to never write to their picture folders

[22:28:51]

Beirdo:

yeah, thumbs defaulting to pics if not specified

[22:29:01]

sphery:

so they put thumbs elsewhere and write-protect gallery

[22:29:06]

Beirdo:

yup

[22:29:11]

Beirdo:

like on a DVD-ROM

[22:29:12]

Beirdo:

:)

[22:29:22]

sphery:

yeah, that too

[22:29:38]

wagnerrp:

i guess if you want to pull up a big wall of images, it would take a while to read and scale them all

[22:29:43]

sphery:

there was a change long ago to allow that with a ~/.mythtv/<something> folder for thumbs

[22:29:48]

Beirdo:

and also... lets us have a directory tree under pics, and the thumbs would mirror the dir structure

[22:29:52]

wagnerrp:

i was thinking you could just pump the image into opengl, and let it do the scaling for you

[22:30:01]

wagnerrp:

but it would take a lot of time just to read it off the disk

[22:30:19]

Beirdo:

hmm

[22:30:28]

wagnerrp:

but would that kind of stuff automatically happen through the theme cache?

[22:30:47]

wagnerrp:

the theme cache would effectively be your thumbnail storage

[22:30:54]

Beirdo:

good god no

[22:31:13]

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[22:31:13]

Beirdo:

I'm thinking of those of us with GIGS of pics

[22:31:38]

Beirdo:

do you really want a theme change to flush all the thumbnails?

[22:31:40]

wagnerrp:

can you even prevent the themecache from doing that?

[22:32:10]

** sphery can't remember which caches clear and which don't **

[22:32:35]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: but that way it would leave scaling up to the theme, rather than up to the plugin

[22:32:47]

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[22:33:00]

Beirdo:

true

[22:33:05]

Beirdo:

maybe in the future

[22:33:16]

sphery:

remotecache seems to be just the preview image cache

[22:33:21]

Beirdo:

after the opengl slideshow effects are into mythui

[22:33:37]

sphery:

so I guess the other cache is in the themecache

[22:34:35]

Beirdo:

maybe later we can consider moving the thumbs... :)

[22:34:46]

Beirdo:

for now, I just wanna get them outta ~/.mythtv

[22:34:51]

Beirdo:

and into an SG

[22:36:27]

wagnerrp:

that... and voice command and noises

[22:36:44]

Beirdo:

hahah

[22:37:08]

wagnerrp:

enhance 34 to 46

[22:37:14]

sphery:

Yeah, agreed that they should be out of ~/.mythtv

[22:37:24]

wagnerrp:

ka-chink ka-chink ka-chink ka-chink

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[23:32:44]

Beirdo:

gah, the researching part of this is always the hard part

[23:35:26]

NightMonkey:

OK, not exactly mythtv-related. Anyone using Epson's XGA projectors? If so, what's your projection setup like?

[23:36:35]

NightMonkey:

I'm looking at the EX50/51 and PowerLite S7.

[23:37:25]

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[23:37:45]

wagnerrp:

i would never recommend an XGA projector

[23:38:06]

NightMonkey:

wagnerrp: How come?

[23:38:12]

wagnerrp:

because its XGA

[23:38:23]

wagnerrp:

thats like the pinnacle of mid-90s display technology

[23:40:34]

NightMonkey:

Hrm, the S7 is SVGA. Yah, I hear you, but I'm doing a cost-benefit decision process.

[23:41:42]

sphery:

Heh, for cost/benefit, check out Runco analog projectors.

[23:42:34]

NightMonkey:

I also like the space-saving aspect.

[23:42:35]

Eette:

hey guys. I am thinking of setting up a mythtv box and wanted to know what capture cards I should consider. I was looking at the Hauppauge cards, but don't know what ones will work in linux. I should add that I will most likely use Ubuntu 10.04LTS.

[23:42:48]

wagnerrp:

what do you want to record?

[23:42:59]

Eette:

cable TV.. from cox cable

[23:43:16]

wagnerrp:

http://mythtv.org/wiki/Recording_Digital_Cable

[23:43:23]

Eette:

thank you :)

[23:43:31]

Eette:

i'll go read that now.

[23:45:44]

NightMonkey:

Ah, ok. Jokes on me. Runco, yah, $14k projectors.

[23:46:00]

sphery:

yeah, they're expensive

[23:46:09]

sphery:

though they have some amazing projectors

[23:46:10]

wagnerrp:

analog.... triple tube projectors?

[23:46:20]

sphery:

even their analog projectors rival many of the digital ones

[23:46:26]

sphery:

they have digital, too

[23:46:40]

sphery:

but analog ones are older, so better cost-benefit :)

[23:47:24]

NightMonkey:

Are they short-throw?

[23:47:41]

wagnerrp:

i bet you could get whatever you wanted for that price

[23:48:11]

sphery:

last I looked at them they only had analog and they were in the $30K range

[23:48:25]

wagnerrp:

seems they only have LCD and DLP units now

[23:48:32]

wagnerrp:

er, LED

[23:48:40]

Beirdo:

NightMonkey: I'm sure you could throw them a reasonable distance :)

[23:48:50]

wagnerrp:

how does an LED unit work?

[23:48:51]

sphery:

yeah, trying to figure out what their LED ones are...

[23:49:05]

sphery:

http://www.runco.com/technology/infinilight/

[23:49:18]

sphery:

"Solid-state illumination with individual RGB LEDs (light emitting diodes) never need replacing"

[23:49:38]

sphery:

I can't really see them including 2048x1080 LEDs in there...

[23:49:40]

Beirdo:

heh

[23:49:41]

wagnerrp:

so its a DLP with an LED light, instead of a bulb and colorwheel

[23:49:48]

Beirdo:

are they related to Ronco?

[23:49:52]

sphery:

heh

[23:49:54]

wagnerrp:

or more likely triple DLP at that price

[23:50:21]

wagnerrp:

'LEDs don't burn-out'.... wait, what?

[23:50:30]

Beirdo:

hehe

[23:50:30]

sphery:

oh, so basically they have 7 colors of LED (or whatever) and just throw the light out without color wheel/mirrors

[23:50:42]

sphery:

not 2048x1080 individual LEDs

[23:50:48]

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[23:50:51]

Beirdo:

so...

[23:51:03]

sphery:

or, still mirrors... but no colorwheel

[23:51:04]

wagnerrp:

ill give them that the 50k hours is slightly more than the 5k a normal projector bulb gets

[23:51:09]

wagnerrp:

but thats hardly never

[23:51:20]

Beirdo:

for galleries... I'm thinking the video scanner is almost what I'd want, but scan for images...

[23:51:29]

sphery:

well, at only $14K, you're likely to replace it every 2 years or so, so that's virtually "never"

[23:51:47]

wagnerrp:

miss a zero there?

[23:51:51]

sphery:

heh

[23:52:01]

sphery:

Beirdo: backend scanner...

[23:52:06]

Beirdo:

0.2 years?

[23:52:12]

sphery:

I think that's the direction mythvideo is going

[23:52:12]

wagnerrp:

i was going to say 20

[23:52:14]

sphery:

don't know how

[23:52:14]

Beirdo:

sphery: yeah...

[23:52:21]

wagnerrp:

sphery: sorta

[23:52:22]

Beirdo:

that would be a lot more useful

[23:52:30]

sphery:

yeah

[23:52:33]

wagnerrp:

rather than scanning on demand of the frontend

[23:52:41]

wagnerrp:

the backend simply maintains a file list

[23:52:50]

wagnerrp:

and the frontend then pulls that file list when scanning

[23:53:05]

Beirdo:

well yeah

[23:53:05]

wagnerrp:

probably keeps hashes of each file as well

[23:53:05]

sphery:

so the frontend still populates db?

[23:53:13]

wagnerrp:

i doubt thats going to change

[23:53:24]

Beirdo:

it should

[23:53:33]

sphery:

yeah, would be nice if it changed

[23:53:37]

wagnerrp:

only if mythvideo got consumed by mythtv proper

[23:53:46]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: hop to it

[23:53:47]

Beirdo:

:)

[23:53:51]

sphery:

heh

[23:54:04]

Beirdo:

get iamlindoro a keg of beer, chain him to a chair...

[23:54:06]

Beirdo:

hehe

[23:55:17]

sphery:

wonder how many LEDs they're using to create a bright enough light for the DLP and throwing the light across the room to the screen

[23:55:25]

sphery:

I want some tech specs

[23:56:35]

Eette:

is the Hauppauge WinTV-PVR-150 the same thing as Hauppauge PVR-150?

[23:56:47]

sphery:

yeah

[23:56:53]

Eette:

sweet. thanks.

[23:56:53]

sphery:

as long as they're both Hauppauge

[23:57:10]

sphery:

there was someone else making a PVR-150 that wasn't Hauppage

[23:57:17]

sphery:

might be small diffs in models, though

[23:57:24]

Eette:

ok. i'll keep that in mind.

[23:57:46]

sphery:

wagnerrp: their cinemawide is cool: http://www.runco.com/technology/cinewide/

[23:58:25]

wagnerrp:

yeah, if i were to spend that kind of money on a home theater, it would absolutely be 2.35:1 (or something close)

[23:58:37]

sphery:

yeah

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